Treasurer dodges question over nurses pay increase
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The state's budget for the next year will be handed down in a couple of weeks' time, and just like most of us, the government's under extreme financial pressure. The Half-Yearly Review was released a few months ago, back in December, and the deficit has grown to $5 billion. So the government is spending more money than it receives in tax and in other revenue. And that must mean, I would assume, that the Treasurer, Daniel Mookie, is going to have to make some cutbacks or put up tax. Well, let's find out.

Daniel Mookie joins me in studio. Hello, Treasurer. Hello, Clinton. Thank you for having me in. We're going to take some questions from our listeners as well. So if you've got a question for the Treasurer, and bear in mind he doesn't come armed with reams of paperwork, so he'll be using his brain here if you do have questions.

131873. I've got a few questions that have been sent to us as well, but this is your opportunity. If there's a particular question about government spending, if there's something you want to see in the budget, an area of spending that you believe is essential for our city, give me a call now, 131873. You can send messages, 0460 873 873. Okay, deficit. You revealed in December it's $5 billion. A couple of weeks until you hand down the budget, will it come down?

Well, you'll have to wait and see for Budget Day, but I can definitely make the point that, yeah, you're right, the budget is under pressure. When I became Treasurer, I inherited a budget deficit of roughly $15 billion. Last year, New South Wales also had $12.6 billion of GST income taken off us for the next four years. So we're under pressure, and we have to be very careful with every single dollar that we're spending.

And that's not changed in this particular budget. Every single dollar that we are collecting from people through taxes or we're getting from the Commonwealth, we have to make sure that it's getting a good return for the public. Are you going to have to make some cuts? There's no broad cuts coming in the budget. We have been very disciplined in our spending since we got here in...

and formed government now nearly two years ago. Can we keep that on tape? The Treasurer just said there'll be no broad cuts in this budget. No, of course there's not any broad cuts coming. What we are absolutely doing though is we are making sure that every dollar is being well spent. If we think a program is not returning, we are absolutely clear about the fact that we will move the money.

if we think that money can be put to a better use, we absolutely will put it to a better use. Absolutely. I want to be very clear about that, Clinton. And that's what you would expect me to do on behalf of the people of New South Wales. I will say when I came to power, I inherited from my predecessor expense growth that was about 24% per year.

and that was Matt Keane's last budget. It's come down quite significantly like that. We made it very clear at the time that it's going to take time to repair the state's budget position, but I'm confident when people see the numbers, they'll see that we've been very careful. We've been very disciplined. Our debt numbers are stable. The budget is under pressure. The budget's particularly under pressure right now for two reasons, workers' comp and disasters, and that will be clear on budget day. I'll ask you about workers' comp in particular in a moment because there's some significant action next week in that. But

Whenever I talk about the public service and we discuss pay rises a fair bit because your government has been involved in dispute after dispute with different arms of the public service, I keep hearing from our listeners saying, why can't the nurses get a decent pay rise? Now, I know this is before the Industrial Relations Commission.

But will there be some joy in the budget for nurses? Well, already we are rolling out things like safe staffing levels for our nurses, which was our key election commitment and was worked in closely with the Nurses' Union. And when it comes to nurses' pay, we already have delivered nurses the biggest pay rise they've received in more than a decade. But they're telling me, the Nurses' Midwives Association says that those in Queensland are paid, I think, 17% more.

and that nurses are leaving New South Wales to move to Brisbane. Yeah, but I'd also just point out the stats, which is we are seeing that nurse recruitment and retention levels are now higher than they were pre-COVID. And we've recovered a large part of our retention issues. And equally, we are record enrolments in nurses joining New South Wales Health. We very much respect the Nurses Association. We very much respect the state's nurses. But I'd also just point out, we brought back an independent umpire

for our nurses. We didn't say to our nurses that you have to agree with us. Um,

uh, unlike the previous government, which had used the force of law to restrain nurses wages for a decade, we have brought back an independent umpire and our nurses and the nurses union is using it. So from our perspective, yet we'll always look to see what more we can do with the nurses, but we're not going to hide the fact that of course it's a, it remains an issue in dispute. Just final point, Clinton, you making the point about the broader workforce. Uh, we have reached agreement now with pretty much the rest of the public sector, uh,

And we are obviously waiting to see some further decisions today from Fair Work about the rail dispute. But even that's now largely resolved. People will see that the investment we have been making in essential services, our

does mean that we are investing more in our essential workers and that is leading to lower class cancellations, more police signing up at the academy and better public services for the community. The one sector of the workforce that people keep saying to this program that they want helped is the nurses. Yeah, indeed. So why is it you've managed big increases for teachers...

big increases for police officers. And I, and I'm not suggesting particularly with the police officers, because it's essentially, you had a recruitment problem there. It's essentially you address that, but why is it the nurses, if you can just explain it simply, why can't the nurses get an increase of the same size of the teachers in the police? Well, with the teachers and police, we negotiated hard bargains. Uh,

we did find abundance of resources that allowed us to be redirected towards their pay, which is also the reasons why we've been able to sign up more teachers and more police, which is leading to more kids having teachers and more cops in our stations. When it comes to the nurses, though, I can't duck the fact that we worked with the Nurses Association pretty tightly on their number one priority, which was safe staffing levels, and we've been rolling that out. And we absolutely have made a critical investment in safe staffing levels as well as nurses' wages,

As well, of course, the nurses union is doing their job of always arguing for more. We remain determined to see whether we can narrow the differences with the nurses union. But at the same token, we're being pretty upfront. That's why we brought back an independent umpire. Some questions from our listeners. Now on this particular issue, Anthony says, you've got plans for the new Rouse Hill Hospital, minimum 800 staff if they want to operate the use the 200 beds and operate 24 seven. Since he doesn't want to pay the nurses a wage, how's that going to work?

Rouse Hill Hospital? Well, at Rouse Hill Hospital, we're putting more money into the Rouse Hill Hospital project in this particular budget. But you're going to have the nurses to staff it. I know you made announcements this week of thinking about Bankstown Hospital as well. Yeah, we also made a big investment in Bankstown Hospital. And look, I just simply point out the facts. We are enrolling a record number of nurses that are joining the New South Wales Health Service equally at the same time. We are retaining our nurses as is.

And that's a good thing. And when it comes to places like Rouse Hill Hospital, we're really pleased that we're making a critical investment in that hospital, particularly because the community of Rouse Hill was promised that hospital at three separate elections under our predecessors. They're entitled to say, well, we want to see it being built. And in this particular budget, that community will see real progress and real dollars being put behind the project. A fair bit of detail on this question from Sandra. It's something she's passionate about. Could we ask Mr Mookie...

Is it possible to increase funding to the Adoption Information Unit? It's part of the Department of Communities and Justice. So that all birth mothers affected by forced adoption can receive information in regards to adopted children. Is that an area that you might be able to find money for? Yeah, well, again, I'm...

well and truly across the fact that lots of people are wanting to see that service improve. I am working with the minister to see what we can do there, uh, to ensure that people can get access to those records quicker. I haven't got an announcement for you today on that Clinton, but you're right to say that this is something that's on our radar and we are looking at it. Michael asks a question here. Should the federal government say, you might be able to flick this down to Canberra. Should the federal government fund the revitalization of Cockatoo Island, given its naval history? Uh,

Well, when it comes to money from Canberra, I'm never going to say no. So that's a yes? I welcome Commonwealth's contributions to lots of our different projects, but I'll simply say when it comes to getting money from Canberra, I'm always going to accept money for the people of New South Wales. Now, we've been covering extensively in the last couple of weeks the workers' compensation fight on the station through our programs. Mark Speightman was on my show on the day that he voted for an inquiry.

Teamed up with the Greens to do that. The inquiry is next week. Now, I understand you have had some meetings with MPs taking part in that inquiry in the last 24 hours. Yeah, I had the opportunity to provide a briefing to that committee. Of course, it's a private briefing, so I won't go into the particular details, but I'm looking forward to appearing in that committee as well next week. My message to the Liberal Party is this is not an issue in which we should be playing politics.

I mean, they made a choice to team up with the Greens. They're going to need to explain that decision to the 340,000-odd small businesses that are facing the prospects of a 36% increase in premiums over the next three years, and that's if those businesses have no claims. This system is not working for injured workers. It's not working for small businesses, and it's not working for the state. And this isn't something new. I've seen data about the historic funding ratios, and this dates back to even the days, I think, when Dominic Perrottet was the Treasurer.

It does. Clinton, when I came into Parliament, the private sector insurance scheme had $1.32 in assets for every dollar they have in liabilities. It's now at $0.82. The scheme now has $0.82. So does that mean the scheme is broke? The scheme is in a deficit. The scheme is in a deficit. The scheme is going backwards $5 million a day.

and it's not helping people get back to work. It's not helping people get back to health, and the people who are paying the price for it are the people who are paying premiums, which is overwhelmingly small business. And it's going to mean premiums go up, so hopefully the coalition will do the right thing by their constituents at some point. I want to get to a quick call from Kristen about nursing. Hello, Kristen. Hi, it's Kirsten. Hi, how are you? Hello, Kirsten. Just a quick question with nursing. First of all, yes or no, are they going to get a pay rise? Yes or no. And second of all, where are you going to find all the nurses to...

fill the new Bankstown Hospital, all these sort of things. They're not interested in working in New South Wales anymore.

So, as I've said, we have given nurses a pay rise. We've given the nurses the best pay rise they've had in more than a decade, and they deserve absolutely every cent. And when it comes to making sure the hospitals, be it Lidcombe, be it Bankstown, be it Rouse Hill, we are signing up a record number of nurses each year, and we are retaining them. So, it's now up to the Industrial Relations Commission what the pay rise is going to be? Well, the Industrial Relations Commission is...

arbitrating, which is why we brought back an independent umpire. And it's an important point to make here, Clinton. For 12 years, nurses didn't even have the right for arbitration. I've got more messages about nursing in particular, and Cathy's making the point. Imagine if teachers had to pay for parking at schools like nurses have to at hospitals. Now, I know that's an issue for the Health Minister, Ryan Park, but it does seem... And I know there were special rules during COVID, but it does seem harsh. Yeah, but at the same token, we do provide other benefits for our healthcare workers, not just nurses, as well. And...

You're not going to hear from me anything other than respect for our healthcare workers. We understand how much pressure people are under right now and we are looking to see what everything we can do to make sure that people are being respected at work. And that does mean continuing to engage with the Nurses' Union, which we will do, but we're not going to... Clinton, I can't pretend that this is an easy issue to resolve. Now, I appreciate you coming in the studio. You've left your office. You've been preparing the budget now for weeks. I understand you listen to a fair bit of music while preparing the budget. MUSIC

So I would have assumed it was ABBA. But apparently it's not ABBA, apparently it's this fella. So that's Kendrick Lamar. Your staff tell me that you listen to Kendrick Lamar while doing the numbers. I do.

I mean, he just did the Super Bowl. Like, it only played part of that song there because it does go into some graphic detail a little later. Yeah, look, Clinton, I'm not going to hide the fact that I'm a hip-hop fan. My first two budgets, I also had quite the hip-hop soundtrack. We will reveal the soundtrack of this budget closer to Budget Day, but...

Kendrick Lamar is coming to Sydney. He's coming to Australia. He's one of the world's biggest stars. He led the Super Bowl coverage, Super Bowl halftime show, which I'd strongly recommend all your listeners, if they're interested, to have a look at. So from our perspective, yes, I've been listening to quite a lot of Kendrick Lamar. You got me there. Daniel Mookie, thank you. Hopefully you can help the nurses out in the budget. Thanks, Clinton. The Treasurer, Daniel Mookie.