Looking Good In Green (Feat. Nneka Ogwumike)
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Seattle was the place where I felt like, no, we want you because this is what you bring. Not necessarily, we want you because this is what we're missing, you know? - Oh wow. - And that, they made me feel that way and they communicated that. - Okay. - And it felt right. - Dang boy, Nneka is spitting bars. - I know, this is good.

This is Queens of the Court. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Queens of the Court, an Odyssey original podcast produced in partnership with the WNBA. I'm your girl, Cheryl Swoops. And I'm Jordan Robinson. And the court is in session. Oh, that was a good one. That was a good one. I get excited over good gavel drops.

- I would say you should, they're so rare. - Okay, okay, 'cause that one made me feel so good. - It's the little things. - Made me feel so good. - It's the little things. - Made me feel so good. - Well, how are you, Chelle? - You know, Jordan, tired. Since you're asking, I'm gonna tell you, and I'm gonna tell you the truth. - Please. - Yeah, I'm good, but I'm tired. So do you care to know what my day was like today?

Please share us, tell us the details of your day because I think people really need to know how opposite we are in the sense that I am not an outdoorsy person. I call myself an indoorsy person.

I pretty much don't like all the things that you like. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing though. Well, no, I was going to say, I've never really considered myself an outdoorsy person either. Not until- No. I love being inside. I do. But there are days since I kind of live on a farm.

I got to be responsible. So today my day was full of working in my garden, harvesting some vegetables, processing my chickens. So the first time we did it, it was my husband and all of his boys. Today was like my first time doing it. Wow. Your first time. Yeah. So it was kind of interesting. Just the whole process of it is very interesting. And I will tell you, it's a lot of work.

But the best part of it is we have really good, healthy food. We got healthy vegetables. We got healthy chickens because we know exactly what we fed them, what they ate. Like, yeah, it was, I did that today. I put my whole little label on there and weighed them and packaged them and zip tied them and vacuum sealed them, all of that good stuff.

Do you feel so accomplished? I do. That's why I'm tired, but I'm excited. Right. Because when you, so the next time you go in the grocery store, just go to the chicken. And when you see a big bird, a chicken, like a full bird in the way it's packaged and everything, you're think of me and just be like, wow, this is what Cheryl did. Yeah. Not, not that particular one, but, but I did it.

So that was my day today. That's really cool. And what about you? What'd you do today? Yeah, no. You got a new do. I see the new do. Yeah, I did my hair, did my makeup, took off my nails so I can go play some basketball. It really hurts when I play with my nails on.

So you want to get in the gym? You want to get somebody some buckets? You know, I try, Cheryl. I try. I am so out of shape. So the buckets are to a minimum, but I'm trying. But yeah, couldn't be more of an opposite day. But I'm really proud of you because that was your first time and you did it. Yeah, I was very hesitant at first. I was like, I don't want to do this, but I did it. Yay. Thank you.

you did it thank you thank you thank you i love that yeah that was my day so well also in my day we got to talk to nekka goomba k earlier today and that is gonna come later in the show where we talk to the former mvp and wmba champ you do not want to miss that interview because i loved our conversation it was really really good but first

There were some preseason games that happened. And let's start with the Dallas Wings defeating the Indiana Fever. Cheryl, you were on the call. You had a front row seat to a sold out preseason game.

That environment looked electric. We are all just like thirsty for some WNBA action to start. And that was a perfect game to kick it off. Oh my God. Listen, it's so didn't feel like a preseason game. It felt like a playoff game. I was, I was excited to be there, to be on the call.

I'm really excited about this young Dallas Wings team, this young Indiana Fever team. But you said it, electric. Like Jordan, I mean, people, it was a sellout. People were all the way to the rafters and you could hear it, you could feel it. And here's the thing. Yeah, it was in Dallas at home. So the Wings had that place rocking. But I got to say,

The Caitlin Clark effect is real because half of, I think half of the fans that were there were Indiana fever fans or at least Caitlin Clark fans. Just a great game. Preseason game. There was so much, just so much talent on the floor.

And I got to say, you know, you go into the game, even though it's a preseason game, you're not really, as a commentator, you're not really talking about what sets they're running and things like that. It's a preseason game. You're really talking about the play, right, of the individual players and everything.

what the coaches are looking for because Dallas had to make five cuts and Indiana had to make three cuts. And I'm sure we'll get into that later, but Jalen Brown for the wing. - Let's talk about it. - I gotta give her tons of flowers right now. - The confidence. - Jordan.

was that young lady out of her right you could see it through on the screen through the screens yes i could being there in person you you you would think she's been in the league for a while right but just her her story alone being undrafted being in that moment

Having played overseas, just not knowing if she's going to make the team. But I said it. I'm going to say it again. If the Dallas Wings do not keep this kid, somebody will pick her up. She's so good. She's so good. She can score the basketball from three. She has a nice little pull-up. She attacks the basket. And I even like her length on the defensive end. So...

you know what's good about i'm going to say this and i'm going to stop because i could just really really talk because it was so exciting it was so exciting but here's here's what's good about where we are with women's basketball right now right because yes absolutely it's a preseason game everybody's excited about this being caitlyn clark's first wmba game even though it's a preseason game um and i will talk about her in a minute

And so although everybody's talking about her and they're excited to see her, Jalen Brown said, oh, I got some eyes on me too. I know y'all didn't come to see me, but let me show you who I am, what I can do. And she did not disappoint. Arike Agumbawale in the game doing what Arike does. Yeah, just, it was just a nasty, stanky move. But let me just hop over to Indiana for a second.

I thought Caitlin coming out in the first half especially, you know, the first three she took, patent Caitlin Clark move,

And I said this on the air for a rookie. I don't care who you are, who you're playing preseason, regular season for you to be able to come into a game and knock down your first shot like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like gives you a lot of confidence for the rest of the game. And she played with that confidence, especially in the first half for, for me personally, I thought when she picked up her fourth foul in that third quarter, I thought it kind of,

Took her out of the game, right? Because she had to sit on the bench for a while and wasn't able to play the way she typically plays. But Indiana, I will say overall, they're going to be a really fun, good team to watch this season.

And Erica Wheeler. I'm sorry, because I got to give Erica some flowers. Because Erica Wheeler was balling. Erica looked so good running that team the other night. Yeah. It was next level for sure. And just to get out, you know, throw out some stats. Rookie Jalen Brown, she led Dallas with 21 points. Arike Agumbawale finished with 19 points and a nasty, stanky move, like you just said. My God.

Kaitlin Clark finished with a team high 21 points. Nellissa Smith added 20 and Erica Wheeler, like you mentioned, had 16. I...

I think it's exactly what you said. And this is what gets me so pumped. All those people, everyone there, everyone tuning in to this league pass preseason game. Yes. Maybe you are here for the first time because of Caitlin Clark, but you walk away saying, Oh, that Jalen Brown. Oh, she went to Cal. Oh, she was on draft. Like you learn something new. Then you see, Oh, Arike. What?

Wasn't that the player who hit back-to-back game-winning shots when she was at Notre Dame? Oh, okay, I remember her. This new fandom, you're going to arrive maybe because of Caitlin Clark, but you will leave knowing more names and knowing more.

people that are straight up hoopers on the court. And that's what gets me so excited because it can be an entry point, but the fandom is going to grow because of the talent that is there. And I think this was the perfect game to witness that a last second shot by Arike winning it. I know it doesn't count, but we're all going to remember it. Right. It was, it was beautiful. But Jordan, to your point, I want to say one last thing and I can't believe I forgot about her.

or left her off because I didn't forget this, this entire rookie class, right? Whether, whether that's Caitlin going one or the, the 10th player drafted JC Sheldon, who went fifth, who went fifth to Dallas. I don't, I don't think enough people really have talked about her or talking about her in this, this draft class, but,

But JC is going to be a really good player in this league. I love her, her length, her speed, her quickness on the defensive end. But you know what I love more than that? Like she has a little stinky swag attitude about her. Yeah. And that's a good thing, right? That you talk about confidence as a rookie.

And especially a player who not a lot of people are talking about, but JC, when she got in the game, I honestly thought,

JC kind of changed the game with her, her defense and, and her just, just playing hard in her attitude. This game was so much fun to call. And I actually caught, found myself being a fan for a minute. Cause there were times where I was just watching the game and yeah. But what a way, what a way to start the W season off with that preseason game. It was really good.

So good. And you were really good on the call per usual. And we're, I'm excited to keep listening to you throughout the season at, uh, for Dallas games. Um, so they can keep giving me a paycheck.

Yeah, good. They're good for it. The other preseason game that was happening at the same time was Minnesota and Chicago, Minnesota ended up winning 92 to 81. The game wasn't available on either the WNBA app or TV. But there was a fan

Allie Schneider. She live streamed the game from her phone on Twitter and her video got more than 2 million views. I watched it for a little bit. I was a part of that. How crazy is that? Crazy. It was staticky. It was pixelated. We didn't know what the score

score was. We didn't know how much time was left. We did not care. And that was because Angel Reese and Camila Cardozo were making their debut and we just wanted to see what was happening. And we couldn't watch it anywhere else. So shout out to Ali the people's champ. We all wanted to see that. But after the game, the Lynx head coach Cheryl Reeve had this to say.

Well, one, hey, hey, Allie, we should all send three bucks. Anybody that watched it should have sent three bucks to the person. I don't even know who it is. I just heard walking here, Abby shared with me. At the time, you said 120, so it's up to 160, I guess. 200,000. 200,000, which I think that what I would say is that the growth is happening so fast. It's so accelerated. And I've been saying this in our own organization that,

business as usual isn't going to work anymore. You're going to get left behind. And, um, this is an example. Um,

Pretty simply, I'll tell you what happens in a preseason. I think we've been ready for this. I think we've talked about it. I can't tell you. I'm not in all the business meetings. But we have been wanting, there's been a thirst for it, not just this season, even before that, I felt like. But what you have to weigh, I think what they would tell you, is they have to weigh the production costs. You know, for preseason games, maybe it's not beneficial for everyone, but

to do. So that's what's in the way, you know, that decision of, you know, where are you going to spend your money? And certainly, Caitlin's first game, you know, they were going to value. I'm all for that. I get it. You know, people want to see that, but they also want to see

It's not just about Caitlin. This isn't Caitlin's fault in any way. It's more the recognition that there's general excitement about the WMEA in ways that we haven't seen before. And so we have to capitalize to really ensure that this is a movement. We have to capitalize on those things. And so we'll learn. I think we'll learn.

You know, again, we know it's like, you know, we say, you know, sometimes even on the court, like you can't fix everything. You know, what's the low hanging fruit? Let's let's try to, you know, get to it. But Angel Reese has a pretty strong following. And, you know, I thought it'd been cool if she would whip down her phone and maybe, you know, her and Peely, like I said, when I posted, maybe they stream it.

She said, Angel Reese, pull out your phone. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Only Cheryl. I love her. Only, only Cheryl. I think that the, my biggest takeaway is what she said. And she tweeted this too. Business as usual is not going to work. There's, there is a new growth. Or you're going to be left behind.

you're gonna be left behind there's this way there's a demand and so how do we flip that i think the positive is we are going to get liberty at chicago sky on tuesday in pre-season so we kind of worked our magic there that streaming uh that um person streaming it from their phone kind of worked in that way but what do you think of what cheryl said

I think everyone who watched Allie's stream needs to send her whatever. I know, right? Whatever it calls on the app to subscribe to the app. Send Allie something. A couple bucks, yeah. But wow, how good was that?

I think Cheryl had a lot of great points in that interview. And she's right. She's like, it's not Caitlyn's fault. Caitlyn is doing what Caitlyn does, right? People are going to go watch her. They're going to follow her. They want to see her. She's exciting. She's good for the game. But so is a lot of other players. And I just said that before when you talk about the draft class, right?

People want to see JC Sheldon. People absolutely want to see Angel Reese. They want to see Camila Cardoso. They want to see Cameron Brink. They want to see Rekia Jackson. I just think it was, I don't know if I'll say it was a missed opportunity, but okay, it was a missed opportunity. There's a need for it. There's a demand for it. And we just got to be better.

Yeah, I think years past we kind of were like, okay, preseason, we'll check the box score. But it's really an audition for the players trying to make a roster. That's kind of the main point of the preseason game, I guess. And they're trying to show their skills, but now it's a little different. So we got to change that.

Change with the times and roll with it. But other preseason games that were on, the Dream took down the Mystics 87-84 and the Sparks beat the Storm in Canada 84-79. I think Cameron Brink had a really great showing. Rekia Jackson had a really great showing.

The Sparks, I don't know, they kind of surprised me a little bit and they still don't have all their pieces. So I'm looking forward to the Sparks and the Storm. Skylar Diggins looked incredible and it is so wonderful to see her back on a basketball court again. So that's what I'll say about that.

I just feel the same way about all of it. I think the rookie, all the rookies who played, I thought they had great showings. And if what they did in preseason is a sign of what's to come for the season, this is going to be a great year. And we're not even talking about vets and returners. I know. Right. Oh my gosh. It just is a, I can't wait. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready to.

Few more preseason games coming up. I mentioned on Tuesday, Liberty at Sky. Also Mercury at Storm. Wednesday, Lynx at Mystics. Thursday, Liberty at Sun. Friday, Dream at Fever and Sparks at Mercury. And then...

The big show begins regular season starts Tuesday, May 14. Yes, I have a countdown. Yes, I'm really excited. roster movements is already happening. Players are already getting waves. I'm sure we're going to talk about that more next week because that's going to be the deadline but some some hard cuts are being had there. They're happening. There's some trades even happening.

So we'll get to the final rosters next week. Any last words on that, Cheryl? No. For me, Connecticut waving Shea Petty. I was kind of surprised by that one. I was surprised by that. And just hoping Shea can land a spot somewhere. And, you know, I know I'm a big advocate, have been for Bree Beal.

Right. And unfortunately she wasn't able to hang on with the aces. So kind of curious to see if there's another team that, that might pick her up. But I mean, training camp's almost over. And then the last one I'll say, I mean, there are so many, but Vegas waving Bria Hartley. Yeah. That one too. It just, it just sucks because I mean,

There's just not enough teams and there definitely aren't enough roster spots because there's, there's just good talent that gets waived and cut every single season. Hopefully that will change soon.

I hope so too. Yeah, Bria Hartley, she tweeted, just waiting on the tables to turn. I know it's so tough after an injury, especially with her story, but there's so much talent. And yeah, but I think that's what's going to make this next week even harder, or who's going to make the final round. But yeah.

Can't wait to see. We're going to bump to break. But when we come back, we're talking with Nneka. So stick around. And now a word from our sponsors at Betterment.

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- We are joined now by a legend, a WNBA champion, MVP, eight time all-star and president of the WNBA's Player Association. And as of this season, a member of the Seattle Storm, Nneka Ogumbike. Welcome to Queens of the Court. - Thank you, Queens.

Thank you, Queens, for having me. So excited. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being here. Let's start off because I'm going to be honest. Seeing you in a Seattle Storm jersey on Saturday for the first time took a lot of getting used to. But how did it feel to dress for the first time and play against your former franchise, LA Sparks, in Canada?

I mean, I feel like I look good in green. Yeah, it looks good. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Yeah, you know, and I'm Nigerian, so green, white, green, it just kind of like works a little bit, but it's not really fun suiting up, you know, after this big decision that I made and settling in here. I've said this before, I really feel like I'm at like the right place at the right time. You know, I think that the journey of my career led me here at this particular moment with the teammates that I have, with the staff that I have,

So I'm just very, very grateful. And that was my first time in Canada. Really? Yeah, that was my first time in Canada. Wow. What a great first showing, a sold out crowd to see the WNBA. What was the atmosphere like? The energy was up. It was definitely up.

but, you know, first preseason game to have that type of energy is like, you know, I think people were kind of like a little excited and I think we were, we were able to work on some good things in the game. Obviously the game was close. So I think that was good for the fans and also good for, you know, in preseason, you want to get some of,

that type of game scenario in. And so we were able to do that, find some flow and build off of what this first week of training camp has been like.

So, gosh, I have so many questions for you. What? Well, I do. I think you know this. Maybe you don't, but I'm going to say it because, you know, we always have our segment where we give flowers. And I'm just going to, I'm just showering you with flowers right now because you are a boss. Thank you. Thank you.

I just have so much respect for everything that you've done in your career, the way you carry yourself, the way you handle yourself. And listen, last year, you kind of reminded everybody who Nneka Ogumike is.

Right? Like what, what, what, what is or what was your mindset coming into this season knowing that you weren't going to be playing in LA? You know, I think I was trying to figure out what that was, you know, last year. And thank you so much because I,

I didn't expect to do as much as I did last year. It's not something that I was necessarily envisioning for myself, but I think it did feel good knowing that I'm still capable, you know? And, you know, after going through free agency and landing, you know, here in Seattle, I think I'm trying to get used to what I have experienced, you know, earlier on in my career, having like,

a lot of arsenal vets around me. And I've learned in this like first few weeks of being here that like, I have a little bit more like freedom and space, you know, I don't feel as though like I'm like the focal point of what's going on. I want to be a catalyst rather than kind of like the solvent always, you know? And so I feel as though there's more of a balance with the teammates that I have and,

the way that Noe puts us into actions and just us being able to work together and flow together. So I'm trying to actually like step out of this perspective of like kind of feeling like maybe like congested and crowded, both figuratively and literally, and understand that like, okay, I can attack, you know, I can attack, I can play free, you know, I can play the game.

That was a, I love that. I love that for you, first of all. And I think we knew that when you were looking for a new place to land, that maybe that was one of the things that you were looking for in this new step in your career. But what made you land with Seattle? I mean, that practice facility is real nice and real shiny, but what were some other things you were looking for in this next place to land?

Well, I mean, since you said it, it took a lot for me to be okay with that being important. I think that especially you, Cheryl, you know how people are like, "You should be glad that there's a lead. You should be happy that you're even in here."

So it puts you into this position of like, well, dang, like I can't have nice things, you know what I'm saying? Right. Right. Yeah. Right. So I had to kind of like undo that mindset. You know, I had to be like, no, like.

I'm not necessarily going where there's a practice facility, but like this matters. Like if I wanted to get up and get shots up whenever I want, that matters. You know, I'm trying to do my job. I'm trying to be the best that I can be. So that was something that I worked through in the free agency process. But also like I wanted to feel like a priority and not necessarily like a piece.

And Seattle was the place where I felt like, no, we want you because this is what you bring. Not necessarily, we want you because this is what we're missing, you know? - Oh, wow. - And they made me feel that way and they communicated that. - Okay. - And it felt right.

Boy, NECA is spitting bars. I know. This is good. This is just for life as well. I love that. I love everything about that. NECA, and please correct me if I'm wrong. I believe somewhere I read, either I read or heard, that you talked about wanting an opportunity to play for a Black community.

female coach or black head coach period. Um, yeah, go ahead. Talk about that. I mean, I just, I just basically, I haven't played for one and I think that ever, ever in your career anywhere. No. Wow. Huh. Okay. Yeah. And that was something that

I guess it was kind of like I was in a moment where like, okay, if I'm looking at all of these different variables as to why I want to go somewhere, and I'm looking even at like the coaching staff, like not only is she a Black head coach, she has two other Black women on her staff. Yeah. She has played in the WNBA, you know, and...

she played for the team that she's coaching. You know, I just feel like, I feel like, um, anywhere else, demographics aside, it would be like, Oh, absolutely. Head coach. You know what I'm saying? Right. Um, or yeah, I would definitely want to play for that person, but I'm not sure if, I'm not sure if that's as, as,

as in consideration for any, like, you know, as whether it's organizations, teams, players, you know, I'm not sure if people are really thinking that way because the relatability from her perspective is huge just because of how much she shares in common with her players. And on top of that, she knows the game, you know, and she has an amazing support staff and that even extends to ownership. You know, we have a lot of women owners in Seattle, you know, and,

I feel as though decisions are made intentionally and it's reflected in the coaching staff, the players, how the organization is run. And I just felt like I was in a moment where I was like, it's now or never. If you don't do this, will you ever be a part of it? Can you ever say that you experienced that? And so that was actually really...

It was a fun thing to think about, you know, when I was imagining myself in a new place. Well, you mentioned, you know, Noah Quinn playing in Seattle, then coming to coach in Seattle, also just speaks of the fandom, the environment, like,

year after year, people say Seattle is their favorite place to play, even when they're going up against like the atmosphere and climate pledge. Not only do you feel the investment in women's sports because of the practice facility, the new arena, but just the fans and the environment of Seattle. So I know it's new, but how is life in Seattle right now? And how excited are you to play in front of those fans?

Well, I was one of those players that said my favorite place to play is in Seattle. And it wasn't just about the environment. I mean, the city is, you can just tell that the city is integrated into itself. So when it comes to support for the storm or the rain, like the community is behind it and you can just feel the energy of collaboration, innovation, intentionality.

And I'm just really excited. I'm not going to lie. I remember last season, which is actually so interesting. This season, the first game I played against was LA, but last season, the last game I played against was Seattle. So I was like, oh, wow, what is going on here? But...

The last game of last season, the game didn't matter. Both of us were out of playoff contention. And I'm not even really sure if winning that game even had any bearing, any real bearing on the lottery fix. But when I tell you, we ran out and it was like deafening. I was like, this game doesn't matter.

Why are these people here? I called Chanae after the game. I was like, Chanae, you missed a good game. She was like, what? I was like, yeah, this game, it was like a playoff game.

I just was so blown away because they are ride or die. And I come from, I come from championship city, you know, where you have fans that, that are like the same way. But I think that, um, feeling that energy here, um,

I was just like, whoa, these people are not playing around. They're like, we're going to go out with a bang. We don't care what the record is. So I like that. That's true, though. And I remember the one season I played in Seattle. Those were my thoughts. Like, the fans are absolutely ride or die. And they're going to show up come hell or high water. They are in the building.

um, Nika, how excited are you about, you talk about ownership, how excited are you about Sue Bird being a part of the ownership group now? Oh, I mean, you know, it's the same, it's in the same vein as having a former player as a coach, you know, having a former player as a GM in broadcasting, you know, I feel like

I mean, I always gas you because I really do think that you're good at shero. And I love it because it's like you're seeing what the players are seeing. You know, like you're watching the game from a player perspective. So like hearing what you're saying, I'm like, oh, yeah. Like you're teaching without teaching. You know what I'm saying? And so having someone like Sue as an owner, it's the same thing. You know, we want to see players.

we don't want to just throw away players when they're done with the league. The whole point is to keep them involved and to elevate them. And so for us to be able to say that we have a former player as an owner, as other teams have also said, it just shows that there's intention behind the growth for the organization and for the league. But then also there's a perspective that is

very rare, you know, not everyone gets to play in the league and not everyone gets to play for as long as some of these players do. So to have someone like Sue, who's had that acumen for two decades to come in here and ownership, I can only imagine what they're going to be learning from her in those meetings when they're like, Oh, well, you know, if you're making these adjustments, you know, like there's things that they, that they just won't know because they didn't experience it. So I really do love that. Have you thought about,

Coaching or ownership? Or during? I mean, you can really do whatever you want. Not the "tie." Not the "uh." People ask me this specifically about coaching. People ask me this all the time. Well, sorry to add another one, but you should know the answer. No, no, no. It's okay. I mean, my answer is like I haven't... It's not something that's like tickling my fancy. I'm just telling you right now.

But I don't close doors, so you never know what kind of opportunity can come from anything. I think I'm a little bit more on the business leadership side of things. Yes, I can see that. So like president of a team perhaps, I think that that's a little bit more my jam. Yeah, I so see that. She said, "Coaching ain't tickling her fancy."

And if you're fancy, if you're fancy ain't being tickled, then you need to move on to something else. Period. You mentioned president and you are the current president of the WNBA's player association. And, you know, there are a lot of new fans right now coming into this season. Lots. We love that. We love the new fans.

But there's also some conversations and there's some headlines that I wanted to ask what's missing behind those headlines when they talk about players' salaries, roster spots, traveling. I don't feel like they get the full picture. What do you think is missing from those talking points?

Well, first and foremost, education. I think that if that is something that's in conversation, me as just a regular person that would want to know more about something, I would do my research. If you don't know where to go, find someone that does. I think that also what's missing from the conversation is consideration of all players.

I think that it's obvious that the conversation came at this point because of the talent that's coming from college. You know, we're seeing this surge and it is amazing. You know, I think we need these youngsters to make these teams. - Yeah. - You know, they're ushering in the new generation. - Yep. - But just as the fans need to educate themselves, it's also important for these players to know their history. You know, even if it's outside of like,

the CBA and like how far we've come, but knowing who Cheryl is and what she did, you know, like I couldn't imagine anyone coming into this league being like, who is, I don't even, I can't even say the question.

I just want to take that person seriously. I just want to take that person seriously because how are you going to come in here? And I'm not saying that this is what people are doing, but I just think that it's like a human condition. You know, a lot of people like to be loud, you know, and, and,

You just have to make sure that what you're standing for is based on information. It's based on research. It's based on understanding. And it's also, it also has, we all, it has to be built on a foundation of us moving forward. We can't, we're not just here to argue, just to argue. We're here to find solutions. We're here to make things better. And I think that that's kind of what's missing, but

I don't think that we can't get there. I think that everybody has a gateway and we have a lot of new fans because of the gateway of this current rookie class. Now, all right, let's settle in.

Watch these games. Once you start watching, you're going to start asking these questions and then we'll figure out where we can move from there. Cause everybody wants the same thing. Everybody wants this league to do, to do its best. Everyone wants to see this league grow, you know? And I was raised on vets who taught me the importance of considering everyone and also understanding the shoulders and the backs that you're standing on. And that is,

Is why she is Madam President. That is why. That was a gavel drop. That was a gavel drop. That's what we do here. So, Nneka, I know you... Listen, you hear a lot, you see a lot, but I think one reason why players, that's current and former, like respect you is because...

You don't talk just to talk, right? You don't say stuff just to say it. When you talk about something, there's meaning and purpose behind it. And so in saying that, to Jordan's point, there are so many new fans, right? Which I think it's great because it is growing the game.

My question to you, though, is why do you think that all of these, quote, new fans are caught up in like this, this this hater mindset or mentality in mentality? Any time a former player or even current players talk about the adjustment, right, that these rookies are going to have to make to play at the next level? Why do you think that is?

I mean, I think it has a lot to do with people, again, not really knowing their history. But I don't know, like, I feel as though...

I feel as though there's also this idea that it's easy to make it and be in the WNBA. And I think that that might be diluting the hard work it takes for these women to come in here, compete. Well, first of all, to come in here and make it through training camp. I mean, this is the hardest league to make. There are 144 spots.

I say this all the time. There is a league of players sitting at home watching these games. Yes. And I think that, yeah, I think that the narrative, you know, I think that the narrative that the WNBA, you know, has always been, oh, no one watches it. It's not that serious. It's not the NBA. I feel as though there is...

A lack of understanding of just how hard and how competitive this league is, along with the fandom that exists in college. And it's not putting enough respect just on how difficult it is to play and stay in this league.

So I think that that causes a lot of people to be like, "Oh, well, she's going to do the same thing that she did here." And I'm like, "Oh, well, you weren't really watching the WNBA before this." So ignorance is bliss. You don't actually know. And it's not to say that these kids are not going to succeed, but at Stanford, I was averaging 20/10 coming out of college. I wasn't averaging 20/10 when I was a rookie. I was still doing well, but this league is hard.

This league is not easy and you have to put respect on the name. You have to put respect on the league to understand why it's so amazing. To understand why records like what Cheryl has are unbreakable. That's hard.

For you to have those types of records, for you to win that many times, and I think if people understand that a little bit more, then they'll have more respect. And also the league will now, which I think is happening, will turn into, that's the goal. The conversation around, oh, they should stay in college, that's going to die quickly. Yeah, for sure. The goal for men is to make it to the NBA.

The goal for us should be to make it to the W, you know? And I think that this younger generation will change that with their transition, as all of us had to go through. But then also them sustaining that talent in a new and different way that keeps these fans respectful, not even just like engaged, but respectfully engaged of this league.

Yeah. That's taking us to church. If I had an organ, I'd be playing it right now. Not a piano. I need an organ. Well,

We're going to wrap up soon. But I think the part of that education, what I love so much is that how you and Chanae have contributed to that ecosystem. You know, Chanae's documentary 144 talked about how hard it is to make it to the sleeve.

league and then you having you know shattered glass the WMVPA story and I think that adds to that like watch these things because it is going to tell you about the history of the league and how hard it is to make this league and when you think towards the future though and you think about the next CBA and you think about what you guys are fighting for what's that one thing you guys are going to focus on for that next CBA

Well, I mean, if I had to guess, I would have to say that it's always been about our value being reflected in these contracts, you know, and it's not a part of the CBA, but there's a new media deal negotiation. I just, I just really feel like we have to

we have to rebalance the contracts in a way where you have franchise players making a certain level of money, which will rise all tides. I think in the last CBA, we had a lot of difficult conversations around, you know, the cap, that men, all those different types of things, because the reality is, is that we were locked in into a CBA that underpaid people

the Coopers, the Swoops. Like, and so over time you started seeing mid-level players signing for max contracts over the franchise type players, you know, and that's not going to grow the game.

That's not going to grow the game, but we have to understand that if we fight for a higher cap, maybe even a soft one. I mean, they don't like it when we say that, but we can dream. And we fight for a higher cap. I think I think also if we if we get more teams, but I really do think that.

we need to have more roster spots. Like I really do think we need to have more roster spots. And I'm hoping with a higher cap that that'll be more of a reality because what we don't want is...

some of these teams with so much talent and then like, they're just trying to make it through the season. You know, like it's, it's very, you, you want the game to be good. And so being able to compensate enough players that make these teams, I think is probably going to be top of mind for us. If we opt out, you know, I can't say that. Right. If,

Yeah. I was going to say, what a legend. Tell us what you can tell us, because I know, I know. She's like, I can't put that out there. It's okay. We're in the court. We're in the court. It's all right. I know we're about running out of time, but I want to ask you one more question regarding the CBA. And this is from

From a former player and having conversations with retired players and, you know, everybody's story is different and their journeys are different. Everybody's struggle is different. One thing that we have talked about, meaning former players, is being able to some kind of way.

have within the CBA something that former players need, i.e. pension, i.e. healthcare? Is that something that you guys have talked about in discussion or, you know, what are your thoughts on that?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's something that came up in the last negotiations and it's a point of emphasis as far as I understand with like the conversations around what we want to bring to the table this time around, given that we do opt out. That, that, you're not the only person that has talked to me about that. And I,

we're standing on the blood, sweat, tears, bones and skeletons of all of these players that were just, "Oh, you're done? Okay, cool." Like that's not because we see the system that's built for retired NBA players. There is a full system and we can't continue to grow and not have that.

for our former players, especially as I would like to say, like as pioneers for women in sport amongst a lot of these leagues, you know, a lot of these professional leagues look to us for advice and we can't be leading the way and not thinking about the players that have played. We can't just only consider the ones that

that are in the league, we have to understand that this is a life thing. And I will definitely say that that's a conversation that is brewing and bubbling. And I look forward to seeing where it goes. Yeah. Well, you know, the thing is, I think when you're currently playing, right, and especially if you're a younger player, you're not necessarily thinking about your future, right? Like when you're done playing.

Because this is something that absolutely it affects the retired players today, but it's also something that when you retire, when other players retire, there needs to be something in place for those players. Yeah, I agree. We might call you as an advisor.

There you go. Y'all want to do that. You know me. I'm going to let it all out. That's what we need. Hit me up. Hit me up, NECA.

I got you. Thank you, as always, for gracing us with your presence. We love you. We wish you the best this season. Last question before you go, if you just want to settle a debate between me and Cheryl. Do you like pineapple? It's not a debate. It's not a debate. I've had it, but I don't order it.

i don't order pineapple on my pizza no seems like a very presidential diplomatic answer of no it seemed like the right answer it seemed like the right answer she does not like it all right thanks necca on that note thank you queens

Thank you. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we have a brand new listener segment. So come on back.

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Welcome back. Amazing was that conversation with Nneka. I mean, it was everything and then some. Everything I expected it to be. Just so much love and respect for Nneka. Thanks, Nneka! So much love and respect. Can't wait to see her. She's just aging like fine wine. So I know she's going to have a great season this season as well. All right. We have a new segment. Last week's segment was very fun and...

Pineapples are amazing and great. But this week, pineapples didn't win. I'm sure. I'm sure of it. We have a listener question of the week. And this question or this week's question is, what was the moment you became a fan of the WNBA?

What was the moment you became a fan of the WNBA? I know we have new fans, but we also have some OGs who have been around. And I wanted to share a little bit of my story, my intro to the WNBA. I grew up in Sacramento and I played, I've been playing basketball since I was five. But when I was in elementary school,

My best friend on the team, her birthday was around this time. So beginning of May and it was always opening day for the Sacramento Monarchs that her mom would take some of the teammates and we would go to a Monarchs game for her birthday. And we did that for like five years. Wow. And my first time going was my first WNBA game. And I just fell in love.

love with Tisha Pinochero growing up as a point guard. Purple is my favorite color. It was just so many things of why I loved the Monarchs so much. And anytime new teams would come into town, I started practicing my autograph because I was like, oh, this is what WNBA players do. I'm going to be in the WNBA one day. Turns out I didn't grow much after that time. So those dreams were cut short.

That's where my fandom began. I was able to watch pro players in elementary school and then go have a game on Sunday and be like, what would Tisha do right now? That is what I started believing. Now to be able to cover it and talk about it and the fandom, the little girl in me is still very much there. Send us your story to our email at queensofthecourt at odyssey.com.

Did you like that, Cheryl? Aw. Little baby Jordan. Aw. That's cute. No, that's cute. Bring the monarchs back. Okay, now I understand why you're a monarchs fan. Now you know. I know. Cheryl, you are also my favorite player. But I'm sorry. There is a deep love there. Yeah. I just said I'm sorry. I'm sorry that we just had to beat up on them like that. I know. I know.

I forgive you. So that's okay. Well, please continue to follow rate review the show. It's available on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also like I mentioned, send your questions, your stories to our listener email address Queens of the court at odyssey.com. Okay, so I know what I'm supposed to say. But I'm gonna ask a question. Did you ever watch me play Jordan? Yes, of course. Okay.

I have to ask. You know, I feel some, you know, I feel some type of way. Did you watch me play in person or on TV? In person? I'm sure I have, but I think on TV is what I mostly remember. And I think too, for you, Cheryl, when I was getting into the WNBA and I started asking more questions because, you know, I would watch sports with my dad and my dad helped give this

like history lesson a little bit of like, well, who's that? Or who's that? And he was like, okay, this is Cheryl swoop. She's a female Michael Jordan. You need to watch her. If you, you need to know how to play defense, you need to watch her. And so it was very much like a, you are a part of my intro to the WNBA as well. Okay. All right. I feel better.

you know i feel some type of way if i don't feel love from you i feel better thank you no there's always love always i know i love your story though seriously i love hearing those stories too but uh listen y'all know what to do y'all know where to find us you can find us on social media i'm at air swoops 22 and she her jordan is that hey jordan r

Queens of the Court is an Odyssey original created in partnership with the WNBA. The show is produced by Alex Ozzie. The executive producers are Maddie Sprung-Kaiser and Leah Reese-Dennis. Social media assistance from Isabella Apple. Music from T-Storm Battle. Special thanks to you, Lena Moss Glazer. Woo! And court. Court. Is adjourned. Is adjourned. Oh, gosh.