The SAG-AFTRA strike is over!
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Welcome to Most Innovative Companies. I'm your host, Yasmin Gagne, joined by my producer, Josh Christensen. Hey, Josh. Hey, Yas. Have you ever been part of a strike? I don't know if I've technically been part of a strike. I haven't walked a picket line for a company or, you know, union that I've been a part of. But I have been a part of a lot of unions, including SAG, which we're going to talk about today. Which union had like the most impact on your life? I

I have to say that the union that's helped me the most was the Actors' Equity Association. As many people may know on this podcast, I used to be an actor a long time ago when I first came to the city. And the Actors' Equity Union, although not without its issues like any union is, is doing a lot of work to make an extremely abusive industry...

a little bit better over time because, you know, not many people know this about theater, but it's not all Broadway and tours. There's a lot of shady, small theaters around the country that really take advantage of workers. And Actors' Equity Union does a lot of work to make those places a little more safe because it's shady out there.

I love the idea of like small shady theaters just waiting to be activated. You know what I mean? Honestly, it's like...

It really is. It's like waiting for Guffman meets awful landlord business union buster. What about you, Yaz? So I am part of the WGA. I love it. I joined Fast Company when Fast Company was in the middle of negotiating a contract for the first time. And at the time, I had a second job. I was an assistant, couldn't afford to live on my salary. The union got me

a $10,000 raise, which changed my life. So I am pro-union forever. But I also wanted to say I can't imagine being a union organizer dealing with a bunch of theater kids. That does sound like my personal hell. Oh, God, no.

Oh, it's terrible. Later on today's episode, I'll be talking with Emma Greed. And if you don't know who she is, she is the woman behind Skims, behind Good American, behind Safely, and behind Kylie Jenner's new Kai. She is the person behind almost every Kardashian business. But before we get there, the SAG After a Strike is over. And here to break it down is Fast Company Deputy Digital Editor Morgan Clendaniel. Hey, Morgan. Hi.

Hey. Before we even get to the SAG strike, this is your second time on the pod, so you're officially friend of the pod now. It's a low bar. It's a low bar. We have low standards. Give us an update on your daughter's potty training. Uh,

There's literally been no update. We've progressed. Nothing's happened. She loves to sit on there. She doesn't like to do anything on there. It's one of her favorite places to sit. You know, we'll get there. Not trying to give her any sort of complexes. So we'll figure it out. She has eight months before preschool starts and she needs to, you know, nail it by then. You're already, you don't want to become like a tiger dad. Well, yeah.

One thing you sort of start to understand about parenting is like whatever you do is probably going to mess them up in some way. So I'm sure my seemingly friendly potty training will also have some horrible downstream effects. But what can you do? So to go back to the strike, give us some background context before we sort of start talking about the nitty gritty of the strike.

When did the SAG-AFTRA strike start and why did it start? So it started in mid-July, July 14th, a little more than 100 days ago. It started because the screen actors' last contract expired and they weren't able to reach a new deal with the studios. So...

instead of just continuing to bargain uselessly. They went on strike to show the studios how serious they were about the new contract. They've been out of work since then, you know, picketing the studios. No actors have been allowed to do publicity for their movies, which is why maybe you, you know, haven't seen people on talk shows as much as

As they are on strike, their bargaining committee was continuing to meet with the studios and they finally reached a deal. Now it's going to go before the members. A thing that often happens in union negotiation coverage is that the news reports that the deal is done, but actually the union members get to vote on the deal and they have not done that yet. But the SAG board mostly positively to endorse it. I think it was an 86% of them. Now it's before the members and they will decide if they want to accept it.

Now, tell me what it takes to get to the point of a strike. You were just saying negotiations fell through, the strike happened. Like, how much buildup is there? You know, there's a lot of buildup. There's a lot of getting your members ready to strike. Obviously, you know, they're going to be out of work. So they have to, you know, prepare to lose their jobs.

To lose that money, you know, a lot of unions have strike funds that help support people, but it's definitely not your full salary. Much like the contract, the union members vote on going on strike. So, you know, what often happens is as negotiations are going, sort of a good point of leverage for the union is to take a strike authorization vote, which sort of shows the companies that

you are ready to strike. And SAG did that. And I forget what the actual number was, but it was somewhere in the 90% of their members voted to say they were willing to go on strike. And then the contract expired and they walked out. Sometimes a union will continue negotiating under the terms of their old contract if they are feeling confident that it's close, but clearly SAG was not. And important to note that the writers were on strike at the same time

So the writers and actors were both pushing to fix a lot of the inequities in show business contracts and were really focused on some upcoming problems. You know, AI was a huge thing and what streaming is doing to their compensation was another major thing. So sort of rethinking the contracts for the modern age. There was a viral clip a while ago, I think from a Disney Channel original movie with the crowd made of AI that looked totally insane.

Tell me about the agreement that they've reached or almost reached. Like what protections are there? We actually haven't seen the full agreement yet because the member still has it. And as far as I know, it has not leaked. But, you know, the union is saying that there are pretty strong AI protections. I believe that some things that have come out are actors will have to consent before the studio can make a digital copy of them and use it.

I will say that Justine Bateman, the actress who has been sort of very vocal about AI protections, has come out and said that she doesn't think the deal is adequate in those areas. So I think, you know, we'll remain to be seen whether the members agree or not.

So let's talk a little bit about obviously the sort of person who's been leading this strike to some extent, Fran Drescher, the nanny. She is sort of an odd figure to me for so many reasons, partly because she's like kind of an anti-vaxxer or sort of like on that spectrum. But tell me about her role in all this and what she's done. I mean, I think she's been pretty impressive. You know, SAG is always funny because it's like there's like a famous actor who

who's running it. So, you know, I think like, I don't have the whole list, but you know, I think she was like running against Matthew Modine or something like that. It's just a weird union in that way. But, you know, I think Fran Drescher has been like very out front, very in the studio's faces. You know, she was really throwing some haymakers at Bob Iger. Bob Iger said, I think we talked about this last time I was on the podcast, Bob Iger said,

Bob Iger made some sort of egregious statements about how easy the writer and actor's jobs are. And she really came out firing...

Strong message about how much money Bob Iger makes and how absurd it is. You know, I think you can sort of tie that into, we saw Sean Fain at the UAW, which just won new contracts after going on strike, doing all these press conferences in a eat the rich shirt. I think we're, you know, we're seeing more and more unions sort of get in the face of the CEOs about their compensation and sort of making a strong sort of 1% versus 99% argument that I think is sort of

historically argument for unions, but sort of new versus sort of the previous generation of a lot of these union leaderships and negotiation tactics. So let's talk a little bit about union participation more broadly. I feel like maybe it's just because I work at Fast Company and I read your wonderful cover story about the woman from the flight attendants union. Sarah Nelson.

About Sarah Nelson. It seems like unions are more or are increasingly in the news and part of the conversation. Has union participation actually risen? So interestingly, you know, I think you're right. We're seeing a lot of stuff in the news, I think, because there was this UAW strike, obviously, when...

famous actors are on strike that generates a lot of headlines. Union participation is not up. I think it's basically flat. But, you know, I do think the unions would say this, specifically that Sarah Nelson would say this, you know, winning begets more winning, right? And so I think everyone is really hoping that as people see the auto workers getting these good deals, see the writers and actors shutting down Hollywood and then signing new contracts. There was a big union fight at John Deere a few years ago where it

where that was in the news a lot. The UPS workers, obviously, there was like a lot of worry that they were going to go on strike and shut down the economy and instead they got a great deal. So the unions would say that seeing all these examples of worker power will build more worker power as other people want the benefits of being in the union.

that obviously remains to be seen in the numbers. But certainly there have been a lot of successes recently. I think, and partly because I have some friends and former colleagues and acquaintances who were in the Writers Guild, and obviously as most of you are, and in the Actors Guild, I've been following this pretty closely. And I think this is a pretty important

moment for workers writ large talking about winning begetting winning because we're only moving further into gig-based work, into the gig economy as has been put out there in acting and writing our gig-based work. So it's important that these unions get it right in regards to SAG and the WGA because there's going to be

more need for collective bargaining for gig workers. And it's tough, it's thorny to negotiate those particular types of deals. So this is vaguely about workers' rights, but I think it's worth making a stop to talk about the sort of ridiculous things that have occurred because stars can't promote their movies. Obviously, some movies have just been moved down the schedule. I'm devastated that Challengers is not coming out sooner. But we've

also seen so many actors give the randomest interviews in the world about like having a kid or about like how much they love motorbikes to get to sort of stay in coverage to then, you know, be considered for awards. Right. Jeremy Allen White cannot stop taking his shirt off and calling him paparazzi on him to keep himself in the running for the bear. And Martin Scorsese has been awesomely

I don't know if people remember the last writer's strike. You might be too young. No, I remember Jon Stewart talking about it, which is like a true time capsule. Yeah.

Conan just kept doing his show, but it was literally just him living. It got pretty crazy. This strike, all the late night people decided to just not do their shows, which was probably good. But if you can go back on YouTube and find some of the Conan strike shows from the last one, they are truly spectacularly weird.

There were like weird moments like that, like the Tony Awards this past year. They went on with the Tony Awards with no writers and they made this whole big thing and they had Ariana DeBose hosting. It actually did well, but everyone watched because we're like, oh,

oh god what is ariana deboe's going to do because it was right after her bafta uh her bafta thing which was wild so she goes to the bafta did the weird spoken word rap thing and then we're like josh has plans to do one of those about current events for our end of year oh god yes no that's not gonna happen at all uh maybe i'll start writing it sam altman did the thing

Sam Altman did the thing. Sam Bankman freed my nerdy king. I have this conspiracy theory about the Tonys that they actually happen multiple times per year and people just pretend. That's so true. They're always coming out. It honestly always feels like...

I get like a push alert from the Times. It's like, the Tonys are tonight. That's so accurate. I feel that way about the Emmys specifically. Yes, also the Emmys. It's all the award shows. They do them three or four times a year and we just all do an emperor's thing where we pretend that there hasn't been one like three months before. I love this conspiracy theory. I'm all for this. I don't want to be super rude, but the amount of random people I've met who are like, oh, I have an Emmy. I'm like,

Well, because there's so many different Emmys. There's local Emmys. There's daytime Emmys. Yeah, that's bullshit. There's the primetime Emmys. There's the, I think there's like Spanish language Emmys. There are podcast Emmys? There aren't podcast Emmys, but there are a billion podcast awards out there as well. So everything's all, it's a PR thing. I mean, it gets you more money if you get awards. Like awards shows are just PR. Yeah.

So just in terms of like talking about the precedent that this strike set, like, you know, you said winning begets winning. I'm curious what you can say about like any other strikes that are coming up. So the big one that's brewing now is that the culinary workers in Vegas have actually taken a strike authorization vote. And so are obviously, as we said before, sort of means that they're in the

final, like most intense stages of bargaining with the hotels. The culinary workers are a very powerful union because they run those hotels and, you know, they include the housekeepers and everything else. They're basically all the staff at all the Vegas hotels. And, you know, if Vegas shuts down, that's sort of a big deal for the economy. So, yeah, that's a that is a big one to keep an eye on. We're going to take a quick break, followed by my interview with Emma Greed.

So Emma, before we even get to all of your businesses, of which you have so many, you know, you're the chief product officer of Skims. You have co-founded Safely, which is a home cleaning brand. You are also the CEO of Good American, which makes comfy jeans. Am I missing anything? No, I don't think so. I mean, I'm also the founder of Good American. I always think that that counts. Yes. I'm a mom. I'm a mom.

I'm the chairwoman of the 15% pledge. I sit on the board of Baby to Baby. You know, I have a few things going on. Yeah, yeah, you got a bit going on. I'm doing all the things, just like everyone else, you know? You're obviously super accomplished. You're obviously part of a lot of businesses. But unlike a lot of founders we've had on this podcast, you actually didn't go to university. You jumped straight into a career. Tell me about that and tell me how you think it's sort of helped or hindered you on your journey. You say it like it was a choice. Yeah.

You know, it's so funny. I don't know either that I would have got into university or that they could have kept me there. That's the fact of it. You know, I left home really young when I was 16 or maybe just as I turned 17. And so there was just...

need to work. I had to, you know, you didn't have somebody making you like an afterschool snack. No, no one was making my snack. I don't think anyone's ever made me an afterschool snack. Actually, you know, I was born in East London. You know, my mom was a single working mom and I'm the eldest of four girls. And so my routine was always working, you know, if it was, you know, being in that house, looking after, you know, those three siblings of mine,

and then eventually like leaving that situation and having to pay bills like super early. So there was never a question of me going to university. I was like, where am I going to find a job? And how can I make that job close to something that I want to do? Being in London, being around the fashion industry, and that being what I aspire to most in my life, you know, it was like, okay, I'm going to go and work in a store. Like at least I can get close

to the clothes, you know, I was like, and then I will meet people. And inevitably you do meet people, you meet stylists and you might meet a designer. And I just kind of like wormed my way into any situation that was getting me closer to what it was that I wanted to do, which was to work in the fashion industry. But it wasn't like a conscious choice of like,

hey, I'm going to choose to like not go to university. And in fact, even at the time, I remember thinking to myself, okay, if this is not my choice, how are you going to learn the most you can? And I think anywhere that I turned up, I did a lot of work experience placement.

So I was just like rolling in and working for free. And I would always make sure like I found the person that would explain to me like, why are we doing this? Why does this company operate this way? And so I had a huge thirst for knowledge, but I wasn't a great student, never ever was. And I found out in my early 20s that I'm like severely dyslexic. And so I think maybe my path in education would have been different had I been diagnosed. What was it like finding that out so late?

like a lightning bolt. I was like, well, that makes sense. You know, it's really funny because I'm an avid reader. Still now, I'm an insatiable reader. I read all the time. I always have two or three books on the go. As a kid, I was exactly the same. For me, the dyslexia showed up any time that I had to do math or work through problems. And in a way, I found

I shortcut everything. Like I will find the most simplistic way through problems to solve something. I think that's a result of the dyslexia. And so for me, just like anything in life, I will find a way to make it positive. I'll find a way to make it work for me. It didn't hold me back because I didn't know about it. And then when I found out about it, I was like, well, that's nice to know, but you know, onwards.

Yeah, we've moved on. What was the first store you worked at that you then got, you know, into the industry through? You know, I've had so many jobs. I had a paper route. I worked in a delicatessen and that was like my favorite job ever because I'm really into food. And I would like, you know, I learned to slice like Parma ham. I learned the name of every olive and every piece of cheese. I made like, you know, a whole side hustle going on at the deli where I'd put together these hampers and sell them. So, you know, it's like I will

find the joy and the worth in any job. But for me, it was always like being in a designer clothes shop where I could get close to these like clothes and the collections and the things that I thought were really highly aspirational, but super out of my reach. Like that was what spurred me on because I worked in a tiny boutique on the King's Road in London. And sometimes you'd get these designers that would come in and they would tell us the inspiration of their collection and how we would sell it. And, you know, we'll be a marketing person from the brand.

And that really fueled me. Like I really ate those stories up. And so I was always trying to get close to where I could work in a business where there was a story behind it. And, you know, that's different when you grow up, how I did, people just had jobs to live. There was no, like, it wasn't about like your career fulfillment. No one was like, Oh, I've got this dream. It was like, Oh, I've got this bill to pay. And so I was always thinking about how

how lucky it would be to be in a job where you actually really loved it. And so that's what I was trying to find as a kid. I'm curious, you know, when you're hiring people now, obviously, because you're a boss and you're in that position, what are the things that you sort of put a lot of stock in? You know what I mean? We see so many business people who are like, I went to the Ivy League. I want other Ivy Leaguers. You probably come with a slightly different perspective. Honestly, listen, there's certain roles in your company. You know, I don't think I want a CFO who hasn't had a...

level of, you know, not just education, but experience, right? And there's certain roles where that's an absolute necessity. But in my business, I'm lucky enough to have an opportunity to work with different disciplines where that's not always the be all and end all. And I think

Creativity is not something that you can learn. It's inherent. You either, you know, a lot of what I do when you think about running a fashion business, merchants and planners and designers, there's a level of instinct that comes into gut feel. And that's what I think I've always been great at. And so I'm not sniffing my nose at any MBA who wants to come and work for me. I'm like, bring them on. But by the same token, it's not something where I'm like, you have to have had this path.

And, you know, when you're someone like me that actually goes out of their way to figure out how to run an organisation where diversity, equity and inclusion isn't something that we talk about, it's just the way we do business. Actually, it's really benefited me having people who,

They have different points of view that come from different places because they approach problem solving entirely differently. And there's no substitute for passion. There's no substitute for culture in an organization. And I'm really obsessed with like building organizations and cultures that

make the people great. So I actually think in some of the companies that I have something to do with, you might be like just okay at your job, but the company is going to make you great. You're going to come in here and what we've built will actually make you really fantastic at what you do. You know, I want to hear about how you made the transition from the shop floor to working in branding and marketing. A, when did you know that was going to be your calling? And B, how did it all happen? Oof.

fluke, as we would say in England. You know, it was just a set of chances. I think what I've done very well in my career is really take advantage of any opportunity that I've got. So if I met someone at a party, I'd be figuring out like how that could benefit me. Like if I met a stylist, I was like, hey, can I have

when's your next shoot? Like, can I come and assist? I've always been that person. But for me, it was about having a single-minded focus on what it was that I wanted to do. And I've been pretty unwavering in every role that I've had in every company that I've had. And so what started out as me working in stores quickly progressed to me getting a job in and around Fashion Week and working for a show production company. And then I found myself

just doing what I was naturally good at. I'm a born negotiator and I had a way of seeing and having a huge amount of admiration and respect for a creative process, but also understanding that you couldn't do anything with creativity alone. It had to be a commercial aspect to it. And so working with brands and putting partnerships together was this kind of like niche little area where I found myself. But at the end of all of it, I just have a way of, hmm,

making and allowing people to see how they can come together and how they can build things together. And at the end of it, you know, it's like, I'm not a lawyer. I, you know, I learned contract negotiation, but I understood, I guess, emotional intelligence, just like figuring out how

how people can benefit one another. And I just happen to be very good at showing people that. Yeah, you know, you've said in other interviews that you're a very operational CEO. I guess that's as opposed to like a visionary CEO, or I guess both can coexist. Like, what does that actually mean? Well, I mean,

You know, it's so interesting because I spent my life, like my career climbing the ranks. Right. So I've done every job I've sat front of house. I've packed the boxes. I've worked in the PR agency. I've delivered the clothes in the magazine, curtains. I've worked in merchandising planning. You know, it's like in the design department, I've like scratching E-comm and what I mean is that I know enough to know what I don't know. And I've kind of been around the organizations and tried a little bit of everything.

And when I talk about being an operational CEO, that is to say that I am one and part of the company, right? It's not about like getting my hands dirty because that's not necessarily what I do at the moment. I don't sit here and think about myself as some visionary strategic wizard of a CEO. What I do is based on gut feel, really what I think is like a cute instinct. And I happen to be very, very good at

at people now back in the day like you know we never used to call it culture but it's like I spend an enormous amount of my time really articulating a vision to a team and bringing everybody on a journey and you can only do that really really well if you've got the right people playing in the right positions and I still think to this day like 20% of my time is spent on recruiting and

at bringing in the people that can make the magic happen and do what I need them to do. And so, yeah, I think like if I'm thinking about key to my success, it's really about being able to create extraordinary products and to find an audience for that product.

But really, it's about building best-in-class organizations. And I think that that's what I've done really well. I have to ask you because I ask pretty much every guest we have from the fashion industry, but do you have any horror stories? Horror stories? Like failures? Not just like failures in your career, but also I feel like working in fashion when you're the person packing the boxes can lead to a lot of crazy stuff. You know what I mean? Oh, my God. I mean, listen, I worked in a time where people could ask you to do anything. Like there was no...

No one was like, "Oh, how long has that girl been here today?"

here today like they would like you know I remember being I used to work in this production company and my job was to lay the carpet before the film premiere so you would be in Leicester Square in the centre of London at 3 4 a.m let me tell you when the club's empty out and everybody's gone home the bedraggled and bestraggled people in Leicester Square are not where you want to be when you're like an 18 year old girl just trying to get your carpet down you know I would like physically

move people. And then the barrier men would come and they'd be all over, you know, so they were not days that I miss at all. But again, you know, it's like, I learned a lot, you know, I learned that sometimes, you know, all the permits in the world weren't going to get me what they want, you know, so I would take like 200, 200 pounds out of a machine, and I'd pay everyone a tenner to like move out of my way. Something to be gained from all of these situations. But you know, I also then have the mentality like I'm like,

find a way, you know, it's like very much. And I respect people in my organization that find a way. And when we started Good American, you know, it was not easy to find partners that understood what we were trying to do and could make clothes in 19 sizes and,

My view has always been like, find a way. Like, go and find the ATM machine and get the money out of the bank and figure it out. That's what I've done. I think it's, I guess the work has changed, but the point of view doesn't change. Totally. I want to come back to Good American shortly. One thing I did want to ask you was about your work with the 15% pledge and your own background. I mean, Black women raise, I think, less than 1% of all venture capital. But I am curious, you know, whether you feel like it's been harder for you and whether you think things are changing.

Well, you know, I think it's a great question. And I always like to be very honest about this. You know, I started my career in England, in London, and I was very, very lucky to find the type of partners that I did. I essentially got a job and then in that job found that there were people within that company willing to invest in me to start my own thing. So I had a little bit of a different start. It's not like I had a pitch and had to go around and find people to invest in it.

I think the realities of the climate, and you say it completely yourself, is that if you are a woman, and certainly if you are a woman of colour in this country, you're going to have a much harder time than a white man coming out of one of the Ivy Leagues in finding some type of investment opportunity. And for me, you know, we can complain all day long. We can

spout off different stats, but I'm a person that enjoys action and I really enjoy impact. And so the 15% pledge was really about means to an end for me. For those that don't know, the 15% pledge is essentially a racial equity and economic justice non-profit. And we're calling on major retailers all over this country to help create sustainable and supportive ecosystems for black owned businesses. And more than that,

but for the businesses to really thrive. And we do that by asking these retailers to dedicate 15% of their shelf space to Black-owned businesses. And we want those brands and those businesses to completely re-evaluate the way that they work to create greater equity for Black-owned businesses in

just over three years, we've created a $14 billion pipeline of opportunity for Black-owned businesses. And this is through the likes of, you know, Sephora, Nordstrom, Ulta, Motor Operanda, Macy's, they've all signed the pledge. And they're doing incredible things for those businesses. And, you know, the pledge is very simple. We want to connect Black-owned businesses to capital and to customers and to community. Like I said, I'm a very results-orientated person. When we talk about that

that pipeline of opportunity, what we're talking about is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of entrepreneurs finding themselves in a position for the first time often in their business histories where they have seen a commitment, where they're able to look at their business,

for the next two, three years, know that there is a commitment from the retailer to work with them. And so they're able to not only forecast and think about their businesses differently, but they're able to go out and raise finance against those commitments. And I really enjoy being part of something that is moving the needle. I'm not interested in Instagram activities.

I want to be part of something that's actually changing what it means to be an entrepreneur. And I feel like everything that I do that I call like my extracurricular, right, whether it's turning up on Shark Tank or working for a nonprofit, it's all with the point of view of being

who gets to be an entrepreneur, right? Back to your point of like education and where people come from. But if you think about it for a long time, you know, there's been a prerequisite for who gets to play in their game of starting companies, founding companies, funding companies, growing companies. And I think that it's really interesting to start thinking about

who gets that opportunity. And I'm really, really interested as I get to this point in my career where I'm able to not just be single-mindedly thinking about myself the whole time, of how we change the narrative around who gets to be part of the conversation, who gets to be someone who can start a company.

and create real value for themselves and their family. And that's what I'm really interested in at this point of my life. I mean, you're a CEO. You've co-founded three companies. I actually co-founded a lot more companies than that. They're just the ones that people are interested in. Let's be honest.

Let's be honest. No one, like no one talks about the stuff that didn't go well, but that's part of it, right? Because there's like, you know, people always think, oh, wow, like where did you come from? It's like, I was doing loads of stuff before. Nobody cares about it. It's like, yeah, it didn't hit. It just wasn't as successful. But yeah, let's start with these ones. Yeah, we'll start with these.

the ones our listeners probably have heard of. I'm curious, with each of those businesses, you've partnered with a different member of the Kardashian family and how you figured out how to partner with each of them. Well, you know, my career for 10 years, I ran one of the best and biggest agencies in entertainment marketing. It was a company that I started when I was 24 and

And you could say I had a front row seat to really understanding how to forge meaningful celebrity partnerships. And I did that on behalf of the biggest brands in the world from Dior and Chanel and Calvin Klein and H&M and so on and so forth. That gave me a kind of unique

understanding and perspective, but also a very clear vision into like what I believe is one of the only accelerators that you can take advantage of, which is, you know, like fame in that way. You know, I was very, very early in influencer marketing. And, you know, I think that we've seen enough celebrities create brands and fail or create brands and not have success like Good American and Skims and Safely to know that it isn't talent alone that are going to

And I see myself first and foremost as a product person. And so when I think about any business, it's never about like, oh, like, who am I going to partner with? It's what problem are we solving for? What are we trying to do? And how do we uniquely collaborate?

align that with the right individual, if that's what I'm trying to do at the time. And so with Good American, that was an idea and a response I had to having worked in the fashion industry for so long, where there is this kind of very narrow beauty ideal, a very narrow body ideal. And yet we know the reality of customers, like most people don't look like those girls in the campaign. And so it wasn't, you know, particularly major brainwave to think like, let me be

interesting if we made clothes in like lots more sizes maybe there'd be lots more customers and lots more people we could sell to and wouldn't it be wonderful if regardless like where you come from like you could see a version of yourself in that campaign maybe you'd be more likely to find an affinity with that company

And so that was really the genesis of Good American. Like, you know, I at that point had had children, I had a daughter and I was like, the media portrayal of women that, you know, it's like you're either serious and you're like you're in a suit Hillary Clinton style or you're like super frivolous and you've got your boobs out and no one can take you seriously. I was like, aren't we past that as women and the portrayal of women? Shouldn't it have moved on? And so that company was a reaction to that.

And Khloe Kardashian at the time was somebody that I felt could really take that narrative to a mass audience because I'm completely uninterested in building small things. I wanted to build a massive company that could be a rival to the biggest denim brands in the world. And so that's how that started. And, you know, I think that everybody feels like there must be sort of like a one size fits all to these things. But

The reality is Good American came from one place. Kim had an idea of a brand that she wanted to create. You know, she's had, you know, I think we've all seen photos of Kim over the years with various concoctions of undergarments. And so she was like, you know, I'd like to do this. We happen to be good partners for her to do that. And, you know, Safely was born out of the pandemic. So I think each of the brands has something

its own story and its own reason for being. And I don't treat any of the companies like there's a one size fits all and nor is there with any of the partners. It's not like you work with the Kardashians, right? It's like there's Kim and there's Khloe and there's Kris, there's Kylie. And like, they're all totally different people.

And I think what we have there is just like with any business partners, there's a trust level, there's a respect level, and there's a very clear understanding of who does what really well. Like Kim is an incredible creative director. She could be a creative director at many different companies if she chose to. It just so happens that we've gone on this journey together and I think created something that has been really defining of the category and of the times and really

when you have great business partners, like you tend to do stuff together. You tend to be like, you know, when you have successes, you're like, wow, let's iterate on that. How do you balance your role? You have like a big executive title, the three companies. How do you balance working on all three? I think,

I think that the idea of balance and this is, you know, for most women, it sounds boring because I say the same thing all the time, but I don't know the last time like I felt in balance. I'm a Libra. It's like I think about, first of all, you know, I play very different roles in each of the companies. I'm not the CEO of Skims.

I'm the CEO of Good American and I have an incredible CEO that runs safely. And I work in varying different capacities in each of the companies. When it comes to balance, it's really about playing where my strengths are and, you know, hiring the absolute best people and then getting out of their way. That's always been my philosophy. But I think most importantly, you know, and especially for women that are in positions where,

where you know it's like you're not just like your job is like not the only thing you do i'm a mother of four kids

And, you know, I take very, very seriously and a lot of time working in the nonprofit side of what I do. And so that balance goes out the window and it's just a trade off. Right. It's like I don't see my friends as much as I might want to. And I'm not the person that, you know, collects my children from school every day. And, you know, I'm on like zero committees at the school. And so I want to be very honest, you know, that I ain't the mom.

Who is that on the traffic duty? That's not me. And so I like to be very honest about what it takes. You know, I have a lot of help. I don't do anything in any of these businesses alone. And I'm just not ashamed of that. I think that it's very, very important that we are

just honest about some of that stuff you know like there's no such thing as balance it's called a trade-off and as a mum you have to be extremely comfortable with that concept I'm not perfect I think to myself you know it's like I'm a I'm a devoted mother but I'm devoted to knowing that my children like I'm raising very strong kids who know themselves who love themselves they're

And they get something else from me. They get the idea of like this lesson that if you have a dream, it's okay to go out and pursue that for yourself without sacrifice. My kids see me every day and they see me happy and they see me fulfilled, but I'm not resentful to them. I don't want them to feel like I've sacrificed. I haven't. And, you know, I was raised by a working mother and I always thought,

that, you know, a working woman was a happy woman. And I think that my kids will look at me and probably feel the same. I love that. I am curious, you're raising kids in LA, you're from East London, you ever get worried they're too soft? Oh my God, it's my, every day, I hit my kids on the way out of the house just so they know they're alive. Yeah.

No, you know, it's so interesting. People say that to me all the time. And I think that you're so much a product of both your environment and the family that's around you. And it's very interesting because L.A. has got this reputation of being like this place.

soft place when not really much happens. Everyone's reading scripts around the pool. The reality is like, you know, whether I was in New York or London, my kids see me get up every morning, get ready for work, scoot out the door. You know, we do the school run. We have our chips and chats. And, you know, I think that like the whole summer, my son came into Skims and he worked in Skims, like folding and organizing stock covers. He's about to be 10. He's nine. Not you doing child labor. Just kidding. Oh,

All day long. I'm fully here for it. My own children, the fresh prince and princesses of Bel-Air need every bit of help that they can get. But, you know, I do think that so much is informed by like, what do you see your parents do? What do you see, you know, your friends' parents do? I've made sure that when it comes to my kids, I'm really honest about

that, right? So there's always this correlation of what we do with what we have and how we behave and how we treat other people. And it's like, I'm absolutely like manic about creating those associations for my kids so that they are thinking about

things in the real world. It's like, you know, otherwise, what hope do any of them have? But I'm not that sure that it would be different living like in the middle of London or in the middle of New York, right? We live in a top of the triangle type situation wherever we would be. And so I think it's about

really at that point, it's like parenting and being clear about that. That makes a lot of sense. You were on Shark Tank. You invest in companies. I'm curious what you look for in a company you're trying to invest in. You know, it's so funny because I often think about why anyone would have invested in me in the beginning. And that's kind of led me to like my entire investment thesis. I think that there has to be some

sort of level of like fearlessness, like an unwavering passion, being on a mission to do something different and often with a purpose, because those are the things that have like attracted me to founders. But I do think that a lot of that is a reflection of what I think has attracted people to me in the past. And that's what I'm really interested in. I want to see people that are just ready to go out and

killed. You know, it's like, that's just who I am. And I think that's been a really good thesis for me. You know, it's like, I've made a lot of investments out. So Jens and I invest together through our family office. And we've made a lot of investments together over the years. What are some of the big ones you can talk about?

Oh, you know, I never talk about them. And I tell you why, very purposefully, because I always, any time that's happened to me in the past, I'm like, what do you have to do with it? Like, see, you have some money and you put your money here and now you're out here taking credit. It's like, get that, get out. So I say that with love and purposefully. But, you know, I am really focused on women because however you stack it, there is just so few. Whenever I've been in a meeting,

like raising capital that's maybe one woman. And like, I haven't been in those positions where I've been in like those kind of, you know, like female founded and led VCs. Like it's usually been like a bunch of dudes and those dudes like knew each other from like school. They were in the same fraternity and like, you know, and so like you can feel very, very locked out.

And so I'm really trying to put honestly and literally put my money where my mouth is and make sure that I'm investing, not just in what comes across my desk, because I have access and I can get in on those things that would have eluded me six years ago. But it's actually being very purposeful with like, well, who wouldn't get the opportunity and being who I am and coming from where I'm coming from? Do I see something in that person, that idea that actually might be missed?

by a more traditional investor. They've been the investments that I've seen the best growth in, maybe because everybody else overlooked what would otherwise be a very obvious opportunity. Well, this was great, Emma. Thank you so much for coming on our podcast. Thank you. I'm so, honestly, this was so lovely.

Okay, we're back with Morgan and it's time to wrap up the show with Keeping Tabs. This is where each one of us shares a story, trend, or company we are following right now. And Morgan, since you're our guest, what are you keeping tabs on? It's not really a story or a company. I guess I'd say story. So New York Mayor Eric Adams, one of the greatest people in New York.

in politics right now. He has a saying that I guess he says a lot, but I first heard it this summer where he says, let your haters be waiters when you sit down at the table of success. I forgot. I do remember this. That sounds like a Real Housewives title sequence line. And so since I heard it this summer, I've been saying it a lot. So Eric Adams now is apparently under investigation by the FBI for some campaign finance stuff they just

seized his phones. So in being asked about this by the press, Eric Adams has said multiple times, now wait before you hate, which I have spent a long time trying to figure out the sort of cosmology of where haters and waiters go when the haters have to be waiters at the table of success, but you also must wait before you hate. It's like a waiting period before you can start working at the restaurant.

And this is why the Culinary Workers Union is striking. Exactly. It's so crazy how like you'd think we'd just come up with one person who could run New York, but every time it's like the weirdest person ever. The weirdest person imaginable.

I think it's a pretty bad job. And so you got to... It's true, you can't win. It takes a certain kind of person. Josh, what are you keeping tabs on? I'm keeping tabs on the Marvel fatigue. So this past weekend, the Marvels starring Brie Larson...

to a really disappointing box office. It grossed $47 million, which, I mean, I would take that. But considering how much these movies cost, was not that great. Apparently it grossed less than The Incredible Hulk from 2008, which is notoriously like the forgotten Marvel film. I went to see that in cinemas because I was a big Edward Norton fan. I did too. I did see that in cinemas as well. Yeah, really, really embarrassing. But it's kind of a bittersweet thing for me because like,

one, I'm behind the Marvel fatigue. I have Marvel fatigue. I can't keep up with these movies anymore. And it's just, it's so repetitive. I mean, like I respect the game of basically making the same movie over and over again with different characters and raking in a bunch of money, but I just can't do it anymore. But,

there was like this big anti-woke backlash to the Marvels as well. So it's just providing more fuel for idiots like Ted Cruz to be like, go woke, go broke again, which is not the reason why this didn't grow swell at all. Yeah, let's talk about the reasons why. There are two. One, naming your superhero Miss Marvel. It's like they gave up in the fucking writer's room.

It's Captain Marvel and Miss Marvel are the two things. Yeah, primarily named. It's based off of IP from the 50s, 60s, 70s. You know what I mean? No one knows about that IP, really. No one knows. You run out of the good stuff. And number two...

We got to stop trying to make Brie Larson happen as a star. I know that woman won an Oscar and she was fine in room, but there's nothing there. Yes. What's your keeping tabs? So Vogue came out today with a profile of one Lauren Sanchez. Yes, that's Jeff Bezos' fiance. No, the profile isn't that good because they don't say anything about her. The photo shoot is like, it's somehow like old Hollywood and the American West themed. Oh no. I mean,

I've just been thinking about it a lot. She's wearing skims in one of the photos because she has an unholy alliance with the Kardashian-Jenners. The deck for it was like, I'm just a normal woman or something. So just, you know what? Oh my God, this is so strange. It's a little like one of these shots is, oh God, that's Jeff Bezos in a cowboy hat.

It's Jeff Bezos in a cowboy hat. Oh, my God. This is so absurd. I'm scrolling through this right now. They got Annie Leibovitz, America's premier photographer of white people, to shoot her. I mean, what is this? I don't... It is so schizophrenic. So I think that's it for today. Morgan, thank you for coming on the pod. We would take you over Lauren any day. I mean, I'll take it.

Our show is produced by Avery Miles and Blake Odom, mixed into sound design by Nicholas Torres, and our executive producer is Josh Christensen. Remember again to subscribe, rate, and review, and we'll see you next week.