Curious Matter Aftershow - Eddie Cobalt Part 1
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Oh, right. Man. Okay. Hi, everyone. This is the Curious Matter After Show. I'm Alison Hayslip. With me is my co-pilot, Alyssa DeVries, and we are going to be your hosts as we take a deeper dive into this season's episodes. We're going to go behind the scenes. We're going to learn a little bit more about these stories and their authors. And of course, we're going to geek out on our collection of love of all things sci-fi and horror. That's why we are here.

So tonight's show is going to be live on Twitch every other week. So all of you out there in podcast land, please come join us, ask us questions. You get to interact with the team and you know, who knows, maybe you win a prize or two. I don't even know what that means. So that's very exciting.

So tonight on the show we have the unbelievably talented, do you see what I did there, star of The Uncanny, Eddie Cobalt, Kelly Dawn Hancock. Thanks for joining us. And in the number two seat is CMA's creator, writer, producer, all the hats, multi-hyphenate Jonathan Pezza. Hello. Welcome, you two. That was a fascinating person.

All right. So let's let's start off right at the beginning. I mean, for those who know the original story, clearly, Jonathan, you chose to make some pretty significant, but also still kind of right in line changes. You know, the biggest one being it's no longer Edwin. It's Eddie. Our main character is female. Why did you decide to go that route?

I just thought, you know, the original story was written in the 40s and it was kind of a New York suit bro. And I just thought it needed to be updated. And I thought the idea of creating this character and and.

just presenting it as a normative everyday thing that it is now and not making a big deal about it, but just putting the character in the now in a way that we all recognize was important to kind of make it work.

Right. And so Kelly, did you read the original story to prep for this? Or did you think because of the changes that Jonathan made, did you want to just go on your own with it? I did not read the original. I don't like to have any type of barometer of where I think the performance should go. Or because it was...

It was very clear to me what was going on in the script. Like if I was a little more confused, I would have gone more back to the source material to see what it was supposed to be. But it was pretty clear. And Jonathan did me this like insane favor of writing Eddie in my voice. So there wasn't a big stretch for me. I'm very much with the profanities and the delivery and the lines. So...

Yeah, I like the warning this podcast had at the beginning. It was like, this is rated R movie type. And I was like, oh yeah, we definitely, yep. Okay. I also liked right at the beginning how, Jonathan, you gave this message about how you decided to set it in the

post-pandemic COVID world. Why did you decide to do that? I mean, I personally feel like it worked so well, but I feel like there's a lot of mediums that tried to take on the pandemic while we were really in the thick of it. And it became one of those, I cannot watch or listen to another thing in this world about, we all went through it. But this really...

I feel like it tuned right into what we have all been feeling for these last two years. So why did you decide to, that feels like a risky move to make and I'm paid off. I think because, you know, I felt like we all have this collective experience that is a unique thing in our lifetime.

And sci-fi has always been such a great tool for looking at something that we're all psychologically experiencing and then trying to like twist it in a new way or dissect it and play with it. And I just thought, you know, we've lived in such a fear-based society for two years and it's created this kind of schism where people just cease to believe in things that are

every day, acknowledged things. And I thought, well, this power is about doubt in the original story. What would a person right now who was inclined to over doubt look like in this? And how would that affect their day-to-day life? And then what would happen is it, is it fantasy fulfillment to get this power? Is it a burden? Is it, if, if, if your doubt actually gave you

gave you the ability to rewrite the things around you, is that a good thing? And that's really the big question. Like, do we want to allow doubt to control us? Right. I mean, it's that standard, you get a superpower with great power comes great responsibility. It actually reminded me a lot while we were listening to it, it felt like Michael Crichton's Sphere,

But the opposite side of the coin, you know, and that one, it was like this alien being technology, spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't read it, read it, don't watch the movie, the book's way better. But you all of a sudden just get to will things into existence. And this was like,

The opposite, you could will things out of existence. Yeah, did you, Jonathan, were you familiar at all with Sphere? Did that play into this at all? No. I wasn't. I've read quite a bit of Crichton, but I have not read Sphere. I highly recommend it. I saw the movie years ago, but I don't know. I'm sorry.

No, I will read it. I love writing. Definitely read it. So Kelly, you know, you do a lot of on-screen acting as well. How is podcast acting different? Because I mean, clearly you're, you're doing so much more than you don't, you don't have the ability of showing your face. So how, how did this transpire and have you, have you done a lot of this?

I haven't done a lot of this, actually. This is maybe my third one I've done, possibly. I really...

Liked it. Um, I'm a mover. I have restless leg syndrome. I mean, I've got whatever it takes. I move, I talk with my hands. I do all of those things. And so when you're recording for a podcast, when you're recording for voiceover, right, you get to actually do that as opposed to when you're on camera, everything's like right here. So you have to be so still that it just has to be conveyed through my face, through my voice.

And I was able to actually get

to be a little more animated. And I started from the stage where most of us started back in the day. And, you know, the stage is more animated. So I feel like this is kind of a beautiful merger of the two worlds that I used to have where the stage and then the screen. And it, you know, it really helped a lot. Yeah. Did you have a favorite part of this episode to perform?

um to perform the list of all the things that Eddie erases I love I think my favorite line in the entire episode is hipsters I'm pretty proud of that one I think that's my absolute favorite episode but once Jonathan um mixed it

And he sent me a preview. I think my favorite moment, and I told her this, and it gave me chills, is how he created when she said, I went home. Because I knew what was about to happen. And I thought that it was just so eerie and how it was mixed and what it said. And he was giving me this very strange direction when we were recording.

And he was like, this is a Darnie Darko moment. And I was like, I don't know what that means. But I'm going to do... You're like, update your references. I was like, I'm going to do the best that I can do. You said go dark, but all right. And I didn't know what he meant. And then when he mixed, I was like, oh. Right. Got it. That part gave me goosebumps. Oh, yeah. So I think my favorite part in the whole episode is when I say...

I went home because you can tell like at that moment her life's about to just go completely off the rails. Right. That's really interesting. I feel that way about doing mocap as well because you have no

You have no anything. And like, it's dependent entirely on your imagination. And then when you get to see the final product, you're like, oh, that's what they were picturing. That's what this is going to look like. So Jonathan, let's talk about that. Like with the music and all the sound direction. I mean, that is the trickiest thing about scripted podcasts is how do you create these worlds in a purely...

audio format. So do you, I mean, weirdly visualize, even though it's all audio, do you visualize it all first and then go from there? Yeah, absolutely. I, I, I understand like the layouts of every space that I'm trying to create in audio and like, and we actually, since the end of last season, since Carnegie in last season, we've been using 3d emulated

um like spatial reverb so basically they walk through physically they walk through space that's 3d rendered in sound and um so there's a whole second step you mix it all you pre-mix everything and then you actually have to create performable characters ultimately and the sound effects will be a character and the the people will be a character and they walk around and they do all kinds of stuff and i can actually physically see that as i'm moving things around so that i can create

like things behind you and things that are very, um,

very recognizably in your stereo space because we're binaural, we're not stereo. So the way that we mix takes into account the fact that our ears point forward slightly and we can actually understand when something's behind us or when something's above us. And those tiny little things are all actually played into the way we mix. Sometimes you don't even notice it, but it's the difference between something feeling real and something feeling theatrical. And, and,

You know, it's a constant process of trying to get it right. Like, I mean, I'm sure I heard like 20 things in this mix. I'm like, God darn it. But you're always trying to just create a cinematic experience where the audience closes their eyes and is there. And they don't need to be told what's around them by saying, look, painting wall. Like you can create.

other ways to trigger the mind's eye. And so that's been the biggest challenge is just continuously trying to get better at that. I truly never conceptualized the fact that we can, like, of course we can sense down behind us and above. It's not just left, right. It never occurred to me until then. I have also never thought of that.

I just want to share that people in the chat are sharing what they would wish out of existence. Somebody said Trump. Somebody said fascism. I think that's awesome. Keep sending those in the chat. And if you have any questions for Jonathan or Kelly, send them and I'll pass them along. Yeah. Let's talk about that. How did you choose which of the modern day things to wish, to doubt out of existence? I mean, the 9-11 one, I was like,

when Sandeep's like is that a band I was like oh wow it's it's you know it's such a phrase that we we attach so much weight and history and memory to and then to hear it be like yeah what would it be if that had never happened what would we think of that

Yeah. I mean, I consider that the inflection point for kind of our world today. So I, that was like a big thing to say, all right, if that was gone, what are the ripple effects of that? And, you know, you can only explore so much, but it was all, it wasn't just about picking big giant things, but like everyday things, like the things that we hate, the things that we, that annoy us, but the things that we actually doubt around us and like thing and nonsensical things, because we don't think in

we don't control our thoughts. Our thoughts go places and like when you're drunk, they do different things than they do when you're sober. And so the idea that

controlling doubt and what doubt does. So like my favorite thing that she erases is waitresses. I know. And I just love that the therapist has been like, and I'm sorry, what's a waitress? That was like hilarious. So goofy. So I guess indeed did a great job. Yeah. So Jonathan, what is your issue with waitresses? Why was I personally, I, uh, I'm a fan of waitresses. I hope they don't get erased out of existence. Yeah.

It was very clever that later on it's like, oh yeah, of course we have to order at the counter. How else would you order food? Because there's just no concept of like someone coming to your table anymore.

Well, yeah, well, we were like referencing a lot of like those kind of those kind of movies to where, you know, if you change something, it's kind of a time travel movie. If you think about it, when you change something, you have to pay that forward and you have to think about like that ripple effect. And that's going to play really big in the next episode in the in the conclusion of of Eddie Cobalt. Like, how do these ripples change everything? Right.

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Fans make the network what it is. Thanks for listening, and we can't wait to hear from you. Find our listener survey at fableandfolly.com slash survey today. So, Kelly, back to you. I mean, this is clearly taking place in such a fantastical world where someone does have this

weird superpower magical capability but Eddie is so cynical and so how how do you keep this character so grounded in a world where these completely ridiculous things are happening um again it was very easy for me because he wrote in my voice so that was um very um

most of the time, I feel like there was maybe one or two times that I kind of struggled with trying to connect to a moment or something that was happening within the situation. But for me, I

I'm really weird in an actor as a sense. Like I'm definitely would not have done well in old Hollywood days of method. Like I'm not that person. I'm a person where it's like, I just want to get in. I'm natural. If I know who this character is, then I can take that character along whatever journey that character needs to go. I don't need to get immersed in, you know, being a

be in a freaking jungle for whatever because I've gone camping and you know and I got lost in the woods you know I'm I'm real big on just transference and keeping it um just what is the next step like I generally take the journey with my character so whatever my character is experiencing at that moment

I'm experiencing it. For a podcast, that's perfect because we recorded it in order. You know, when you're on set and you're shooting a movie, that's a little problematic. But, you know, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. At this time, it was super easy for me.

Now, did you record solo or were you able to record with your co-actors? I recorded solo. Jonathan read all the other lines. So I recorded solo. I didn't know what anyone sounded like, especially episode two, the relationship between Eddie and Simon gets stronger. Yeah.

So it would have been nice to hear what he sounded like. I didn't know what the psychologist sounded like. I didn't know any of it. Was that a trip the first time you heard it? It was a complete...

an utter trip. I didn't know what my wife sounded like. I didn't know that the waitress had that real thick, like Southern New York accent. I was like, what's happening here? You know, I didn't know any of that. And so it was really first time me hearing it.

was the same. I was just like, whoa. Oh, okay. Let's talk about the addition of the therapist because that's not from the original. Jonathan, why did you choose to add this character? Two reasons. I think like...

In audio, you tend to have to find a unique tool to give information to your audience. And I hate over just pointing things out and saying things that you wouldn't say naturally. So I'm always like looking for characters or ways in these stories to insert something natural that gives you the ability to explore things.

the information of the story without feeling like you're telegraphing or everything to the audience and just like, oh, here's this and here's this. And I also thought it was important to understand that Eddie is dealing with the challenges of mental health.

And that is such a central part of our story and who is better to be the sounding board through everything than the therapist. And so I thought that that was the mirror image that you wanted to have to be able to kind of work from for Eddie. Right. It felt like the therapy sessions were

acted as what would have been like the narrator. Yeah. But as opposed to it being this like omnipresent, I'm going to talk you through my life. You actually had this other character and, and Kelly, you've kind of commented on this a few times because it's written in your voice. It was like the narration ended up feeling very conversational and not, you

pointing a finger at it like you've been like you said Jonathan yeah you just it's and and Sandeep always does such a great job at bringing humanity to everything and that character is kind of tough because it's so clinical and kind of cold uh he's so cold and um

But it's also important that these characters aren't just dropped in or these things aren't just dropped in, that they have a very important connection to the plot and to the story. And so that becomes a very big part of the next episode too.

Nice. I have amazing news. We have a question from the chat. Nice. Let's hear it. Okay. Tall VM wants to know, what does SFM1B stand for? Or is it just a random combo of numbers and letters? They are not random. There's lots of Easter eggs in Curious Matter. And that's a great one. All of the forms that she fills out are Star Wars fighter plane identification numbers. That's so cool. That's so fun.

They're all star fighters. So the T-65B is the X-Wing. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. Tomorrow's Star Wars Day. Oh my gosh, you're right. It's before tomorrow. Wow. Nicely done, John. Thank you. Oh man. Timing. That's awesome. So you've been hinting a bit about part two, which comes out in two weeks.

- Two weeks. - Two weeks, yeah. - We release every other week. - Great. So what made you decide to end part one with the disappearance of Susan?

Because that's the point everything changes. Oh, yeah. I mean, I truly when I was listening to it, I was thinking the building disappearing was like, you know, because it was the first time that so many people were, you know, they were saying like thousands of people were just milling about being very confused. I was like, oh, that to me feels like a significant thing. And then Kelly, when you're saying I went home, I was like, oh, no, oh, no, what's gonna happen?

What are the more impactful things in our lives, right? Like we are so desensitized to the big thing and then the small thing happens and that's what floors us, right? Yeah, I don't think anyone... Yeah, I don't think when she said, I went home, you knew something was going down. Like nothing...

nothing good's about to happen. Like, Susan's not going to be like, it's okay, baby, come here and let me host. Like, that was not about to unfold. Yeah. So how did you decide how to tackle the COVID references and then also stuff with like,

uh, like the chat rooms and the conspiracy theories. Cause that is stuff that, you know, these days can be touchy. It seems like, you know, are, are you, are, are you trying to have the conversation about this stuff? It seems like you were like welcoming and commenting on it. Well, I'm, I think that it's, it's funny that it's, that it's fantasy fulfillment for us right now. Like if you, it's very, if you look at the people who are very into that with a sense of

humility and a little bit of sense of grace and you think about like how does a person believe in some of the things that they believe in nowadays. And you take a character who's not the person you expect to be that, but they're just as susceptible to allowing those things to overpower them as anyone else. And so

it wasn't like a commentary about it as much as saying, I was just trying to like pinpoint all the cultural things that are in the constellation of now for us. And like all the things that like I obsess about in those hours before you go to sleep, right? That like that time when your brain just like goes to those places, the free association time. And, and all of those things just kind of came together to be the world of this. Yeah.

Right. I mean, you even, you know, discussing at the beginning, you're like, potentially being on the cusp of World War Three. The fact that that made that references kind of that made it in this episode is incredibly timely, clearly, but I also was like, how long did you, it doesn't feel like you recorded this all that long ago.

What is your turnaround time on this? Well, we about three weeks once we're finished recording. I'm constantly recording with people for different episodes. Everybody's recorded individually.

um, some in studio, some remote and, um, yeah, it takes about three weeks to put an episode together. Were you updating things as you were writing, depending on what was happening in the news or did you just happen to kind of nail it? I think Kelly can say that she read the first draft of this almost a year ago. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, cause I took a long time between seasons because of just work and things. And, um,

And this got written almost immediately after we had our finale live stream here on F and Funny, where Kelly expressed to me that, you know, she wanted to be a leading character. And I- I did not do that. You're like, I want my role and I want it now. And it better be the premiere. Well, no, she said that-

It was something she was aspiring to in this. And I thought about that and I said, wow, why didn't I do that in season one? I just, I couldn't believe, I had just not even thought about the fact that I didn't do it because I was just granularly putting people that I knew in spots that I thought were

fitting what I said was okay go back and roll the tape we can roll the tape is he uh I was in the military in like everything and then I was a cop

And people are like, oh, was this really one of your, you know, was this a stretch for you? And I said, I always play cops. That's what happens. I always play cops or military or anything that wasn't a stretch for me at all. It'd be great to play something a little different.

You're like, let me play an insurance adjuster. That's my dream. Yeah, let me stretch these chops and be an insurance adjuster. And he was like, challenge accepted. And I said, I'm not.

I'm not like saying I will never do another one unless you write something. I just mentioned. No, I didn't take it that way. Someone asked the question and I was like, I always play cop. So no, it wasn't hard for me. And then, so that's what happened. So since you both were a part of season one, how has season two, how is season two growing and changing and, you know, moving forward from season one? I'm going to let you take that. Okay. Yeah, I guess I should answer that one. Yeah.

I think it's just a continuation of the same process of trying to figure out what stories exist out there in the sci-fi and supernatural horror universe that I think can speak to today. And just trying to present them in a way where you can imagine these as a big budget movie. You know, you can imagine these as...

as a as you know an a-list uh tv show you just want them to feel um as real and as engaging as that so that's the goal so right and especially like these days as much as i love the marvel movies and all these superhero movies that come out it's like we're we're inundated with them now and we don't get i mean it's it's so telling that

you know, everything everywhere all at once is crushing it at the box office now because it is this sci-fi fantastical movie that isn't set in the superhero realms. And people are like, oh, finally, something fresh and exciting. And it's still in the same genre. And I feel like these stories that you're finding, Jonathan, are like proof that there's still really unique, cool sci-fi stories out there that can be told that don't have to have

Spider-Man in them. Yeah. Well, it's like, it's also Tom Holland. No, I mean, it's, it's, it's true. But like, if you think about the movies that made us not the show, but just the concept of the movies that made us and like, you think about back to the future and aliens and, and ET and just, just that 15 to 20 year span of filmmaking is,

You know, it's easy to obsess about like George Lucas and George Lucas's story writing and everyone tries to understand like, what was it that he was borrowing from to tell Star Wars and the thing that I think they're not the question they're not asking is, is what were the

what was the media landscape for them as a kid? Like, what were the things that they were reading under the covers with the flashlight, the Spielbergian scene, right? Like, what was that thing over and over and over again? And the truth was, in the most cases, sure, it was comic books, but it was also...

So Pulp, it was Ace Books. It was The Variable Man by Philip K. Dick. It was these stories that have largely been forgotten about. And when you read them, you can't help but feel that the next step to their evolution is forgotten.

the thing that the filmmakers were doing in the 80s and 90s. And so the idea is instead of trying to replicate those things and constantly try to regurgitate the same stories over and over again, let's figure out what were the influences that created that landscape in the first place. And then we'll tell those stories from our perspective now utilizing that source material. - Right, and again, understanding that all stories can be universal.

Yeah, absolutely. Alyssa, do we have any more questions from the chat? We do not have any more questions, but everybody is engaging with the conversations. Dman1198 says, I think many are hitting the point of superhero movie burnout. And Critter Nation is saying, I can't disagree more. Give me all the fun heroes till I die. I mean, listen, I'm...

I will go see every superhero movie as it comes out. I'm just saying, like, it's so nice to get something else as well. Totally. Something different. Yeah. But still so relatable. I will be at Doctor Strange opening night. Let's not lie to ourselves. Yeah, they take my money all the time. Oh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, okay. Just to wrap things up, Jonathan and Kelly, is there anything you can give us as a little taste of what's going to happen in part two with Eddie? Yes.

Eddie, if it starts with Eddie and her wife disappearing, I'm like I said, the relationship between Eddie and Simon will get stronger and deeper. That's going to be fun. That's fun. And we might learn a little bit more about this power that she has now. Nice.

Awesome. That was perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Jonathan and Kelly, thank you for joining us. This has been awesome. Congratulations on your premiere. Thank you. For everyone watching, please make sure to like and subscribe wherever you are listening.

Follow us on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook under the handle at CM Anthology. That's M as in mom. I realized I kind of said it like an N. It's an M. All right. Or you can check them out online at www.curiousmatterpodcast.com. Curious Matter Anthology picks up next episode with the epic conclusion of The Uncanny Eddie Cobalt, which lands on May 17th. And we, of course, are going to be back that night at 630 p.m.

Pacific time live on twitch.tv slash Evan funny for the next after show. Our technical director tonight is death queen Vax. The curious matter after show is presented by F and funny and the Knightsville workshop and distributed by realm media. So until next time, I am Alison Hayslip. This is Alyssa DeVries and we've been your host. It's been a pleasure. Have a good night, Danny, whatever it is. And of course, thank you for listening.

The Fable and Folly Network, where fiction producers flourish. This is Ai reporting. He's at the Lao Chang restaurant, Changchun, northeastern China. It's, uh, spring 1997. Once it's started, I'll leave him in Ming's hands. That's a joke. Ming doesn't have hands. And what do you do, exactly? Besides dance with strangers?

I work for the postal service. You're a postman? Weird. Miss Cloutier, what is it? It's just a bit strange. A letter for me from Hong Kong. And there's no stamp. I need stamps to write a dead person? Yep, there's a cost. How much? A pound. A pound of flesh. A pound of you. It seems like a lot.

The very worst thing that could possibly happen. Is that a police right back?

If your letter can find me here, then I think we have a lot to talk about. Saludos, Raul. The very worst thing that could possibly happen. An audio drama in nine parts. Produced by Wolf of the Door Studios. Out now. For more information, please visit WLFDR.org.