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This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.
I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.
at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, WeAreGolden.
Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.
Hello, ladies. Hello. Hello. Hello, hello, hello. Greetings. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford, and you're listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.
This is a very special episode of Vibe Check. I'm so excited to share it with my sisters and all of our listeners. Can I tell y'all what it's about? Please. Yes, please. So all summer, you've been hearing us do one-on-one interviews with people we love, friends, visionaries, cultural voices. We heard Saeed talk TV with Roxane Gay. We heard Zayn.
Zach talk about water, blue spaces, and finding freedom with Jenna Wertham. And today, I'm excited to share my special episode with a musician I think the world of and a good friend. Her name is Emily Kane. We love her. She's the best. She's the best. I only know about her because of your love for her. You have been advocating for her forever, for years. For years.
Yes, yes. Team Emily Kane. I will see her wherever she performs. Every album of hers means so much to me. I first discovered her through a dear friend from graduate school, Shannon Williams. Shout out, Shannon. And ever since then, I've just been hooked. Her LP called Seven is like one of my foundational musical texts ever.
Everything she does is great. And I wanted to talk to Emily this summer because her latest album called Special Occasion means a lot to me and a lot to her. This was the album I played when I was in Texas the week my mother died. And I had it on repeat and I found it quite soothing during a most tumultuous week. Also, this album means a lot to Emily Kane. I don't want to give away too much, but this is a breakup album.
And Emily made the album about the breakup with the person she broke up with. Wow. What? Really? That is heavy. Yes. Wow. Yes. That is, that's amazing. Levels there. Her longtime collaborator, songwriter, and producer was also for many years her romantic partner. The romance ended. Their musical partnership did not. Wow. It's heavy. We talk about that. We talk about grief and grieving. And
And then as a special treat, her mother gets on the microphone. Okay, mom. Yes. Okay. Emily's mother was there in studio just listening in. Wow. And we got to talking about love and life and mama had some lessons. I know not to be like too on the nose, but like this is like a special occasion. It's a special occasion. What a conversation. Okay. Yeah. I love this conversation and I love this album because...
The way that Emily talks about breakup is that she's actually talking about grief and talking about grief and the language that she uses. It's applicable to all kinds of grief, not just breakups. I found it really helpful in helping me get through some moments of grief around my mother's death. And I told her in the interview, I said, you know what? The death of a parent is a different kind of breakup.
It is. And so all those parallels and the beautiful music and lyrics and the conversation and the mama on top of it all, it's a good chat. I'm so excited to share it with you. We are eating today. What a gift. Yeah. So with that, let's just get to it. Here's me and Emily Kane and her mother talking about Emily's newest album, Special Occasion. Special Occasion.
Emily Keene, hello. How are you? I'm better now with you. I'm doing great. Same. It's always good. Always good. I want to talk about your latest album, Special Occasion, talk about your music, your work, but I feel like we have to, in full disclosure...
Tell listeners that we're friends. We're friends. Let's break the ice with the listeners. You and I hang. We did a hike. We did a little coffee at the hotel. Yeah. You know. Yeah. But that's not illegal. It's not illegal. No, no, no. We're not breaking any rules here. Are we? No.
I first interviewed you a few years back with your last album. And I mean, I've been a fan of yours forever. That's known. But over the course of the pandemic, we just like kind of reached a point where we're like, well, let's hang out. Definitely. And it's been great. And a lot has changed. Oh, my goodness. The world has changed. The world has changed. It has. Yeah.
But I feel like knowing you personally now helps me enjoy your music even better. I hope so, because the opposite could happen. We all know that's an option. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Let's talk about the album. Let's just get into it. It has been perhaps my most played so far this year. It's called Special Occasion. How would you describe it to listeners in a nutshell?
Thank you. Yeah. I would describe it as sort of a, it's different for me than it is, I think, for people who listen to it. For me, I have all of this like subtext and fine print in the bottom of the thing. But I would imagine if I'm just listening to it, it's sort of like an easygoing ride. You know, there's some fun, there's some tears, and I always like to evoke some emotion. Yeah.
So I would say that there's a variety. It's a variety of life. Yeah. A thing I always tell folks about your music and why I love it, it's like no matter what the track is and no matter what you're singing about, it's soothing in this really clear and calming way. Like I put your music on, the blood pressure lowers, the shoulders kind of release and I'm like,
It just gets you in a good vibe. It gets you in a good vibe. That's great. I think that's why I do it, too. You know, I'm trying to get myself in a good vibe most of the time. So I'm very happy to hear that. I want to play a track for our listeners to introduce them to the album if they haven't heard it already. What song from your album is the best introduction to it? I'm going to go with the title track. Another day in time
Yeah, we're raising high.
Special occasion, it's just sort of like you said, it's like an easy introduction and it's got a little bit of melody and a little bit of groove, which is my favorite combination. What's the song about? It's really about enjoying the moment that we have and finding the joys in these not so joyous times of life.
So I think I was trying to manifest all of the scenarios that I'm talking about, you know, driving around with friends and having a good time at the height of the pandemic, just thinking about all of the things that we could be doing to enjoy our lives. That's interesting because you hear it and you read the lyrics and it's about hanging out, raising glasses, having a toast. But now to hear you say, oh, this was written during the depths of pandemic when I couldn't do that.
That makes it even more fascinating. Yeah. I mean, it was still that like iffy time. Like you could. You could, but did you want to? Would you be shamed if you go outside? Exactly. Yes. Yes. And also I was going through a tough transition in a relationship. So I was trying to project, like trying to get myself out of that mindset by singing about happy things. Yeah. Yeah. So, and it works. Thank you.
Think happy thoughts. Yes. Yeah. You know, you mentioned a relationship and a transition there, you know, in spite of special occasion being a song about having good times. A lot of this album sounds and feels like a breakup album. Is it safe to call it that in some ways?
I think that the intention was just to... Usually, Jeremy Most, who was my partner many years, we made this record together. And we were changing our definition of our relationship during this album. And so that was... I honestly don't like to say breakup because...
Maybe I'm overcomplicating it, but it just... For me, I still have the hopes that it's going to just kind of transition into some other type of friendship. And, like, there's people in your life that are just too special to use these layman terms of, like, breakup, X, this, you know? And so I'm just...
But the album did cover this period of time where we were going from one view of our relationship to another view of our relationship. And that was very hard. Yeah. And I want to, you know, clarify for listeners here. So Jeremy Most, who was your partner, he's also been your producer for many years. And if I got it right, the two of you recorded this album together after breaking up.
And a lot of the songs were themselves about the breakup, if we can call it that. Well, I would say that that is the big picture. Yes. Yeah. And that's intense. It's intense. I mean, there's gray areas. So it wasn't like a clean breakup. Yeah. I'm sure you've been in a relationship where it's like, it's not like you. Are we done? Are we not? Are we together? Well, yeah, you don't make a decision and stick with it. Who does that? Exactly. Exactly.
But I always felt like this is my soulmate. You know, this person is someone that we're meant to meet and be together in some capacity, you know, and to make this music. And I always was trying to champion that idea to him. Yeah.
I don't know if it worked, but I really do feel that way. And he was a huge motivating factor in finishing, even through all the heartbreak. He pushed me and us to finish the record. And it was just very painstaking. Yeah. I mean, so I could see a lot of artists not being able to do it. Writing and producing songs about heartbreak is...
with the person the heartbreak is about. When did you know and how did you know that you were going to be able to do that?
So going back to my history is that my parents raised my brother and I as a musical band. Basically, they were a band, you know, and they were a singing duo for most of my childhood. Mom's still out there singing. I see her. And she's here. She's here today. Hi. I never met you, but I feel like I know you. Hello. Thank you for making Emily. Thank you for giving her to us. Oh, Sam.
Thank you, Mom. Thank you, Mom. I love you. She's an excellent mother. One of many excellent things that she is. But I have that experience of when they got a divorce, naturally, you also stop making music together. Yeah. And that was a big part of my life to experience that. And it was confusing sometimes.
As to why they couldn't continue with the music. But, I mean, it's two totally different people and they had their own paths to take. I mean, I couldn't imagine it going any other way in retrospect. But for me, I was like, oh, how do I not repeat history? It seems like such a shame to just repeat and not really expand. Yeah. Make it something that's like we're evolving to the next place and...
I was really aware of that parallel and I was trying desperately to not break up, as you say, because I really feel like our purpose was to create music. And we also happen to be best friends. That's a lot. And that requires not just a big amount of like fortitude and strength, but also the ability to like look at a bigger picture, right?
And I feel like a lot of times when we're in the throes of heartbreak, we can't see any bigger picture. We're angry. We're hurt. You said this thing. You did this thing. We have like tunnel vision. And hearing you talk about the way you wanted to approach this heartbreak and your music and your musical relationship with Jeremy Most, it feels like you were able to look at all of these things big picture. What helps you get there? I think because there was no wrongdoing involved.
There's only deep love and appreciation. For some reason, people change or whatever we desire for ourselves. It sometimes doesn't. I mean, I don't have to tell you this about life. I mean, I just experienced it for myself for the first time. So I didn't understand why.
I had actually had to make this choice. I wanted to stay with him doing what we're doing, but I wasn't getting everything that my spirit needed from that situation. So I was almost upset with myself. Like, why can't I just...
appreciate this amazing relationship and for some reason I just needed other things. I hear you. I think if someone had been cruel, it would have been easier to jump ship. To be like, well, fuck you. Yeah, and say that. I'm still confused about it, I guess is what I'm saying. Well, this is the thing I was telling someone the other week. I was like, in some stories, there are actually no villains. Sometimes it just changed.
Sometimes it just got bad. And I think that like that makes it harder to put some of these things in black and white or in a box. If there's no villains, how do you do it?
And I love the fact that the album gets to that ambiguity. One of the songs that I keep going back to is False Start because it talks about the way maybe it's not over. Maybe it is. Maybe you did wrong. Maybe you didn't. I don't know. Like the words just speak to me. I get lost in what I play myself another tune and fall back with sin.
You write and you sing. I get lost. And when I do, I run on back to you. Tell myself another truth, then fall back. What's the use? But leaves don't ever know which way they'll fall. Girl, girl, how hard was it to be able to write lyrics that accepted the kind of ambiguity that you and I are talking about?
Well, I'm so glad you like that song. I mean, I like them all. As much as that song breaks my heart, I really love it too. Yeah. I was in L.A.,
And it was sort of in that moment where it's like, I'm ready to settle into being this person that I've known for years and I'm ready to like just...
Push down whatever these feelings of change and needing other things. I'm okay to just lock that up because I'm really not into the idea of changing. And I would never want to do anything to abandon someone who means so much to me. But when I got to the studio that day, my soul had another narrative. And it was just chronicled.
crying to me it's like you almost were brave you almost were brave and now like how does it feel to not be brave you know and so it was just this like you know what you have to do but you're like fuck I don't want to do that shit well and like I feel like the whole story of this album and the story you're telling me and our listeners is that like there are rarely clean breaks in life
We rarely have situations where a thing happens and then all of a sudden that thing or that person is forever gone from you forever. I swear I didn't know that. Based on Hollywood and music, nobody told me that. Literally. Seriously. Like, you know, oh, the movie ends with the person like freeing themselves and they're going down the highway and you don't see the rest. Yeah. Or like you're used to like.
I don't know, I think of Angela Bassett in Waiting to Exhale. Right. She puts that man's clothes in the Mercedes and burns it up. And it's over. And it's done. And she's happy after that. Yes. And then she's moved on. Yes. And then you realize in your own life, there is no Angela Bassett but Angela Bassett. Oh, my God. None of us can do that. None of us can do that. And then there's this whole aftermath of emotions that you're dealing with. That part. Even if you're happy.
Yes. It's so interesting because even if you find a new love and you're in love, you know, you're still dealing with those feelings of loss at the same time. Where's the movie about that? Literally. Yes. You know, I mentioned a false start getting at that feeling for me. But what song on the album most gets to what we're talking about? This idea like the clean breaks do not exist besides false start.
I think that one definitely sums up that concept. Yeah. Home Now is a song that it was also representing that moment where it's like, okay, you know, let's come back to what we had. Come back home. This is where you belong. In my heart. When you're gone. I feel it strong.
I know what she said. Just come back home. I know what I said because it's a two-way street. But, like, just come home. We're going to have some coffee and I'll make you breakfast. Yeah. And that one, let me tell you, that one's the tearjerker. The guitar comes in and you're singing it and I can almost hear tears. Like, this is where you belong in my arms forever.
When you're gone, I feel it strong. It's simple, but like it gets to it. Even when you know it's ending, you still want them. Literally, it was the day before he was coming back to the house. And I wrote that like begging, you know, like, please come back. Forget what I said, you know. And it's also been strange to talk about it because— I can't even imagine. Yeah.
Well, I want always to actually lead with the music first because here is this absolutely brilliant person. He is one of the greatest musicians and talents that I've ever met. And even before we became in a relationship, I was a fan of
And so that is something that should come before anything else. And I'm talking about it selfishly because it helps me. But we're not in a place right now where we're doing music together. I did this tour of this record without him for the first time.
And, you know, that wouldn't have been my choice. But I also at the same time had this amazing experience with these new musicians that I love. And I'm grateful for that. Y'all did the damn thing. It's a good show. It's a good show. Thank you for coming. Oh, my God. Girl, I will come whenever you are in my proximity. I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there. I'll always play L.A. for you to come. Please.
All right, listeners, time for a break. More in just a bit. Stay tuned.
This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.
I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors
at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.
Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.
All right, we're back. Let's come back to what it's like to perform these songs without him. But I want to go back to the song Home Now. You said you wrote it the day before he was coming back. You have this song written. It's about the two of y'all and the thing you've just experienced. How do you bring it to him? What do you say when you say, here's a song? I wrote it about you. How do you give it to him? One of the joys in my life is writing a song that Jeremy loves. Aww.
That was like the biggest, one of the biggest joys. I love that having a partner who is completely honest. We definitely agree to disagree often, but I respect his opinion. So it was always like nice to hear him say, oh, let's work on that one. And yeah.
I think we didn't have to say anything because our love was music, was the way that we express our love for each other always.
And I think oftentimes I would send him a demo of the song and he would play bass, drums, keys. He plays it all, right? He does everything and just send it back. And that was the best love letter anyone could ask for. Wow. Just the act of like, I want to make this better. I want to...
enhance this, you know, without ego, just how beautiful can we make something together? Was it painful to hear these songs come back to you with all of his instrumentation? Was it helpful? Was it cathartic? Did it make you joyous? Like, this is so, I mean, creatively, it's got to be difficult. You're writing this song about heartbreak, and then you send the demo to the person the song is about, and then he sends it back to you dressed up.
When you get it back, how do you feel? Loved. And I feel hopeful and I feel spiritual. Oh, maybe there's something bigger than just our silly little relationship issues that we need to do. Like we need to do something with our lives to add something. Yeah. And make art in spite of.
And make art because of, even. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was always a sort of argument that we had. Okay. It's like, oh, I was always trying to convince him that this is our purpose. But...
You can't implement purpose onto someone else. That part. I feel now that I can only be responsible for what I feel, you know, that I have to do. Because even now, I want to, like, knock down his door and be like, come on. Oh. Let's do it. Do y'all talk? No. Not right now. I get that. And sometimes you have to do that. Sometimes when it's still so gray, you have to have that space. Yeah.
What do you think the lesson is for you in all of this, if there's one big lesson? Well, ever since I was young. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
I always sort of partnered with other people to create my own music. Yeah, yeah. And early on in my career, I had a wonderful musical partner too before I met Jeremy named Chucky Thompson, who has passed away, but he was a very special person. And I learned a lot from him. He's my mentor. Yeah. At the same time, I always felt like I was...
sort of taking the easy way out by not doing the work to fully express myself 100%. Because I always write lyrics and melody. I write the song. I do the arrangements too. But I...
Always relied on someone who can play the instruments quickly. Yeah. If I'm being honest. Listen, I get it. Can you just do this? Yeah, just like put it together. I gave you the roadmap. Yeah. And so I think my lesson is to be a fucking grown up and go do your shit and like stop relying on other people to do music. I hear...
My own stuff, you know, and it's been hard to compromise at the same time. I mean, I'm painting this picture of it being perfect, but it's like some of the things that I love about the records, I fought for to keep those on the records. There's a song on this album that was really tough for us to agree on. Which one? A song called Metal. Metal.
Oh, girl, that's the bop of the album. That's the bop. Why was it tough? Because, for whatever reason, Jeremy didn't vibe with that song. He just didn't vibe with it at all. Really? What would he say as to why he didn't vibe with it? I don't even remember specifics, but I think that it's just like, if I was going to make up a story, it would be that sometimes the playful songs, they don't get the credit because...
Everyone's trying to do their masterpiece, their important song that's usually not just a feel-good song. Yeah.
And there were some pieces missing with the production and certain things that he couldn't get behind. My brother, A.C. Lincoln, who is a wonderful brother and musician. Yeah. And tap dancer, too. And tap dancer, too. Yeah. And songwriter. Yeah. And so he was the one who was like, M, metal. You got to finish metal. Let's go. Metal's the one. Metal's the one. Yeah. Yeah.
He's like, if you don't do metal, like, I don't even know what to say. But that's just an example of how things can shift depending on how complacent you are with ideas. Totally. When you're working with somebody else. Yeah. So my lesson is just to be, I'd like to just produce my next record myself. Okay. And do this shit myself. Might be fewer tears, huh? Yeah.
What was the hardest day of recording this album? Like, go back in your mind, the hardest day, the hardest moment, particularly between you and J-Most. Was there a moment where you're like, in the studio, how the hell are we going to get this done? Yeah, there was many hard moments, I think, like...
There was wonderful moments too. Yeah. Again, there's so much nuance. There's so many experiences within this like breakup, makeup, whatever. And so I think after really realizing that things had to change was when it got the hardest. What would the mood be like when y'all would come to studio? Was it like...
contentious well we always mostly worked separate anyway okay you know so he works he does an amazing job at his home studio and I have a little setup so I would send him stuff so you lay the vocals down and then you'll send it to him and he gets the other stuff around it yeah that probably makes it a little bit easier huh being in the same room could have been it's cheaper laughter
It's cheaper. So I think there's a point where it's just like, I can't do this. And then I got really terrified about us. Like, we came this far, please. But it was an amazing thing what he did. And I'm so grateful for that. It sounds beautiful. Yeah, we just value our relationship in that way.
What have your parents said to you, advised you on? What do they say about you and Jeremy continuing to make music after something that feels like it might be a split, knowing that they broke up and then didn't keep making music? What do they say about this situation and your situation?
Wow. Well, mom is very strong-willed. You know, when she knows and sees what's up, she doesn't really ever back down. I think I wanted my tongue pierced at one point. She was like, nah. Hell to the no. There's nothing I could have done to change that. Thank you. For some reason, that was hot in the late 90s. We didn't know. We didn't understand what that meant. But yeah.
I think that my parents, I should say now, have a wonderful relationship. And they actually reunited in Las Vegas last summer for a gig. What? Our friend Brian Newman brought them to Vegas. Stop. They had a whole weekend of performances together. Yo. Yes. It was amazing. What is the lesson from that?
Time heals all wounds. Vegas. Vegas heals all wounds. Money heals wounds. Let's get to you. Money. Yeah. So that was really fun. I like that. But my mom was, I mean, you must have been so tired of hearing me say the same story over and over again. And still, like how many times can a person lament on what went wrong? Wait. Put mom on the mic. Uh-oh. Kimmy.
Listeners, one more break. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.
This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.
I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors
at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.
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Terms apply. Learn how to get more out of your experiences at AmericanExpress.com slash with Amex. All right, back with Emily Kane. Going to jump right back in now. Okay, but we need a time limit. I just want to ask one little question. Oh, you want us to ask you a question, Mom? One little question. You're cute. Oh, boy. Your daughter, who you love deeply, is going through an experience eerily similar to one that you faced with your partner years ago.
The romance is changing or ending, but the question is, do you still keep making art together? Emily chose to keep making art with Jeremy. What advice did you give her, particularly from your own experience, as she was making that choice?
I gave her the advice that I wanted to hear, that I needed, that I didn't get when I was breaking up with my, the father of my children, my husband and my singing partner. I wasn't getting that advice. So when it came back around, I was able to give her the advice that I wish that I had gotten. Yeah. And what advice was that, if you can share? Yeah.
The advice was that people change and that you should never give up on that person and to try to find a way to continue the good things that you have and then try to eliminate the stuff that doesn't work anymore. Yeah, I love that. You know, I hear you talking about that and this whole time we've been talking, I've alluded to this with Emily via text, but...
I played this album the week that my mother died a whole lot. She passed away on June 21st, so about a month ago. And I was in Texas for about a week and a half to deal with all of that. And the album that was the soundtrack of my time there was yours, Emily. And everything that you've said and that your mother has said about the end of things and grief and
That resonated for me and almost conceptualizing my mother's death as a different kind of breakup. You know what I'm saying? And I think the lesson of your album, I think the advice your mother was giving you was that nothing ever really ends. It's not going to be a clean break. And we still have the chance and the time to see the good in these people, to keep making art. And for me, that means my mother is gone forever.
But it hasn't really ended. We think we need clean breaks and have clean breaks. What if we never really do? And we think that's worse, but what if it's better? What if it's better? Well, you know, there are transitional periods, you know, where people aren't there anymore. They're somewhere else. But the whole thing is managing your life along the way so that you can...
preserve yourself and your own spirit and your soul and just how you feel about yourself like just to do things that maybe are uncomfortable but to do the things that are the right thing to do what is the right thing to do yeah well and this is also actually a lot about grief you know any album that deals with heartbreak is about grief my mother dying was clearly about grief
And I think another lesson I found in your music and in this album, Emily, is that like grief can be beautiful. Singing about grief can be beautiful. Talking about grief can be beautiful. And I've said this before. Grief can be abundance. Wow. I think so many times when we're mourning a loss, whether it be the end of a relationship or the death of a parent, all we see is the presentation of scarcity.
This person is gone. This relationship is over. I don't have this thing anymore. And I think good art that deals with grief is an exercise in abundance. Because your songs about heartbreak, Emily, they fortified me. They fortified so many others. They've helped so many people process their own grief. And so like, I just think it's beautiful. And I'm so grateful that you dealing with your grief has given abundance to
And helped other people feel more abundantly. And I just appreciate you for it. And I'm trying not to cry, but I really do appreciate you for it. I love you. I love you too. I love you, Sam. I love you too. And I think that there's a special place in heaven for people who can take pain and make art out of it. And you do that. And I love you for that. I love you. I didn't want to do it. Yeah? Yeah.
No. I want to feel sorry for myself. In fact, most of the time I do. I think I'd make albums faster if I had more, you know, willingness to sit at the guitar when I'm sad. Or even when I'm happy. It's almost harder to do it when you're happy. Really? You just want to frolic and, you know. We'll be outside. You want to go outside.
Do you want to go to the, get dressed up, go out to the movies? And it's like, well, like just take a couple minutes. Let's just like preserve in some form of literature or melody this happiness so that we can transfer it to someone else sometime. Yeah. And I mean, that was beautiful the way that you explained that there's beauty in the things that actually don't end. It doesn't end.
And it's hard for us to conceptualize this idea that like, well, it's not really over because we're taught to believe in beginnings, middles and ends. We're taught to believe in Angela Bassett burning the clothes in the Mercedes. But as we've talked about, it's not that. And so this album, your music is saying it's painful. There's grief here, but it's not really over yet. And that's not just OK. That might be good. That might be good.
And that's been helping me just think about my mother. Yes, she's dead. She's not really gone. Clearly. She can't be gone. She's here in my heart. She's in my head. I hear things. I see things. And there she is again. And that is better than having her actually be finite and gone for good. Right. That's what your album is saying to me. And I just appreciate you for that. That's a lesson for me. That's like a revelation what you're saying is...
That actually society doesn't really promote learning how to deal with change. Yes, but there's so much gray. There's so much gray in every aspect of life. And it's, I don't know, I didn't expect it. I thought you wake, you go to sleep, you wake up fresh, you know. Boom. Boom. New start.
But there's so much more to the story than any of us know. Yes. Last question for you. What's the next album about? Honestly, I just want to write songs that are like just so much about being in love. Mom, what do you think Emily's next album should be about? I think she's a very, you know, in touch with your emotions. So...
It's going to come out because she's a very sensitive person. So whatever she's feeling at that time, that's what's going to come out. And I've noticed about Emily's writing is that we can have conversations and then she could see what's all around her and digest all those things. And then all of a sudden she comes up with this beautiful song in such a lovely way. Oh, that's what I feel about your songwriting.
Yes, it's true. I love it. Mom has a beautiful song. Yeah. It's called I Love Today. And it kind of just sums things up for me. It's all I got. Try to smile and laugh. The time is here to say for sure.
That is a wonderful place to wrap this. I love that. I love that. Listen, Emily King, you mean the world to me. Thank you for this chat. Emily King's mother, you mean the world to me too because you gave us Emily. We just need hugs now. We need hugs. A hug across the airwaves. Thank you both so much. I love you. Thank you both for sharing your gifts and your art with the world. We need it. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.
Listeners, thank you for checking out this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support the show, please make sure to follow on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend. Special thanks to my
Special thanks to Emily Kane for this episode. You know I'm such a fan and a friend. Thanks for all you do. Huge thank you to our producers, Chantel Holder, engineers Sam Kiefer and Brendan Burns, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. Listeners, don't forget, want to hear from you. You can email us whenever at
at vibecheckatstitcher.com, vibecheckatstitcher.com. Also, keep in touch with us via Instagram and threads at The Ferocity, at Zach Staff, and at Sam Sanders. And if you post about us on social media, use the hashtag vibecheckpod. Listeners, stay tuned for another episode this Wednesday. All right, bye. Stitcher.
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