All I Have Faith in Is Art, Orgasms, and Friendships
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Hello, ladies. Hello. Hello. I like that. I like that. I like that. That's very Madea. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Safford. And you're listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

This week we're talking about the SAG Afterstrike and the reaction the general public is having to Troye Sivan's Rush video, which I guess is a different type of strike some people make. General public? I mean, the general public meaning like the gay Twitter square. Okay. I see. But before we get into all that, let me check in with my sisters because I know, speaking of gay Twitter square, Saeed Jones is coming back from Fire Island. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to hear all about it. As someone who's never been to Fire Island, tell me everything, Saeed. So I think we were there for about five nights. It's great. I've been to Fire Island several times over the years. This is the third time I've gone, like, you know, where I go for basically a long week.

So Fire Island is a barrier island off of Long Island. This very narrow, very long strip of land that's kind of divided into different communities. Fire Island Pines is traditionally like a kind of gay enclave. There's Cherry Grove that I think is traditionally more like lesbians, a little more inclusive, I would say. But it's cool. It's this very narrow little island. It has a weird social calendar. Like there's Loti.

Middle tea, high tea. There's an underwear party every Friday night. Tea isn't like they're drinking tea or something else? No, you come together for tea. You come together for tea. I don't know. For the kiki. That is so funny. Wait, Zai, do you know the answer? I know the answer to this. Do you know the answer to why it's called high low? I just know that it stresses me out at times. I just know that I'll be in the pool all day, minding my own damn business, and then all of a sudden everyone's like, we got to get ready for tea, and then everyone jumps out of the pool and is getting dressed to go. Yeah.

Where the name comes from, I mean, tea is like, you know, coming together. This throws back to like British tea houses, which is where gay men would go to, to have little parties. And I think the 1800s, but high, mid and low tea only have to do with the balconies of this one bar in Fire Island. Cause one is low, one is the lowest balcony in that. And it builds its way up to the dance floor. So that's where the different levels of tea happen. So,

So that's the thing about Fire Island that I think is really cool. It doesn't look like anywhere else that I've been. It's the spare island. There aren't vehicles. It feels like you're kind of like camping. I can't explain it. Like you're walking through. It's like a beach forest. I always see pictures of people like walking through the trees to get somewhere. And then I always see all of the houses are the most beautiful kind of gray wood. It looks really cute. It looks really cute.

Yeah, and those are all local trees because you can't, it's really expensive to get, you know, material to the island itself. So a lot of it's like the local trees that they made into the wood. Yeah, and it has a long history that people can read about if you're interested. It's got a federal national park right in the middle known as the Meat Rack. It's actually incredibly beautiful. The park is called the Meat Rack.

It's called a meat rack for all the reasons that you can probably guess, but it connects Cherry Grove and Fire Island. So at one point to go to the underwear party, the five or six of us were just drunk in nothing but underwears and little fanny packs walking along the beach at 11 o'clock at night.

I love it. Walking through this national park for 20 minutes along the beach to get to this party. And, you know, it was just really fun. If you really care about Fire Island, I wrote a piece in the New York Times last year about Fire Island, but...

This summer, there's a new podcast similar to last year's Provincetown. There's one called Fire Island. Oh, okay. That I'm in with Margaret Cho and Joel Kimbooster and everyone from Fire Island. Oh, I love it. Big history. Listen to that right now. Okay. It's an interesting place with a fascinating history. Just two little tidbits. Poet Frank O'Hara actually died on Fire Island. He was like, I think he was asleep on the beach and I think got hit.

by like a beach cart and died. And that's like one of the kind of infamous things. And then after 9-11, a lot of LGBT people who were living in lower Manhattan kind of had to retreat to Fire Island for several weeks, you know, just as a kind of safe place to be.

during the recovery. So it's just like this interesting place. And then it's the last barrier island out here before you're just fully out in the Atlantic Ocean. And so I think in 50 years, this place, it'll probably still exist, but it won't be what it is. So I should go soon. Climate change and all that. Yes, you should go very soon. So it's just, it's,

I just think it's a fascinating place, really interesting, long history. It was really created by kind of the closeted Hollywood gays and their gal pals in a time where you needed to go to maybe a little secluded island kind of place to kind of live your truth. But that's the story of me and my 70 mosquito bites that I'm covering. That's my weekend. How about y'all? I'm feeling good because, and Zach knows this,

It's exceedingly hard to get tickets to go see Barbie in Los Angeles. Like literally sold out. The hardest thing. Renaissance level is hard. Zach was trying to get us all to go to Alhambra on Thursday evening to go see it. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a suburb. It's out there. Oh, okay. Really? But this morning I found tickets because Alamo Draft House downtown in LA added extra screenings. So I secured tickets for the girls and I'm happy about that.

But besides that, my vibe is weird because I had a dream last night and I never really have dreams or remember them. But I had a dream that I was kidnapped. I know. And I was telling Alex this morning and Alex was like, oh, it's in the air right now. Weird dreams. I'm like, okay, he was like cancer season or something. I don't know. Anywho, in the dream, I'm a fully grown adult and I end up in like some social club or group or whatever. And I don't realize it's actually...

bad people doing bad things and then they like trap me and I have to fight for several days to figure out how to get out and then I literally run to a fire station and the firemen save me then they like break up the whole group and save everybody else so it was kind of like culty culty kidnap situation and I definitely believe that dreams mean things but I have no idea what this means so I'm just like um

If anybody knows what that means, tell me. That's my vibe right now because I never have dreams, y'all. I don't have dreams. Oh, I have too many dreams. I just did some quick Googling because Google, I guess, is accurate. And Sam, what your dream could mean if you want to believe in these things. I want to. Is typically when there's a dream about you being saved, you could be feeling overwhelmed currently by your emotions. And you may be feeling some anger, aggression, anxiety in reality. And it could be because you feel like you have lost control or something important.

to you has been lost. And that's what, this is what a dream analysis is. All true. All true. Because I've always felt like that it's less about the what that happens in the dreams, but the, like the dynamics or the tensions. I feel like it's kind of like you're taking your anxieties, your stresses or your hopes, you know, into your subconscious. And then it's like your brain is kind of running, you know,

Not plot scenarios, but like emotional mental scenarios on how to process these feelings and all that kind of stuff. I also love that even in my dreams, I find that firefighters are the best public servants because they can save you and they don't have guns.

It's great. Oh, okay. No one ever protests firefighters. I've never seen a protest against firefighters before. Listen, they're the good ones. They're just here to help. They will rescue your cat out the tree. Zach, what's your vibe? My vibe is generally good. I'm very excited for Barbie. I'm excited for Oppenheimer. Are you wearing pink? Maybe. I haven't thought about it. I should. Are you going to try to see both in one day? That's a lot.

I think I'm going to stagger days. Okay. I don't know if I want to do both. It makes me feel really nostalgic to childhood, like having movie seasons back and going to the movies. I also feel like you're the biggest movie head of the group. You are. You're really into movies. Yeah, I go to the movies once a week, and I've done that for years. I usually go on Mondays. Every Monday I'll go. But, you know, speaking of movies, Barbie's coming out. And speaking of Barbie, clothing has been on my mind this week. And Sam knows the story a bit, but I have to share here because I'm really scarred from something that happened this weekend. Oh, okay.

I'm really good at letting go of things I own. I'm not precious. I will donate things. I will cleanse my closet. I'm really- Well, and you also have a steady stream of stuff coming in. People send you stuff. Yeah, I'm always- I shop a lot. So we got to let go. And I usually give things to friends. I don't wear things rough. So if someone says to me, I've done this many times, you see me holding a bag that I'm like meh about and I think it looks better on you, I will give you the bag. I will give you the sweater.

So typically I just donate clothes to a charity, like usually a gay charity or homeless center or something to the kids. My boyfriend Craig said this time, he's like, Zach, you really give away really expensive clothing sometimes. Why not try to sell some of them? Just like see what happens.

Because I just had never done that before. I was like, I've never gone to like a Crossroads, a Plato's Closet, whatever. So I took my stuff to a Crossroads, which is like a Plato's Closet, Buffalo Exchange. And that stuff is, if you're kink, a shame, public shame, you should take clothing to one of these places. What did they say to you? These people sit at a counter. These people. You bring your stuff up. There's like a group of them, very chic,

trendy Silver Lake people. I went to the Silver Lake one in LA and they were so attracted. They looked like they were in the Rush music video. And they take her stuff and they say, so just so you know, we barely buy anything, but we'll go through all of it and give you feedback on why no one would buy this. So they go through your clothing and tear it apart. And this girl next to me, they looked at her, gave her back her three Ikea bags and go, sorry, ma'am, no one buys fast fashion secondhand. So maybe try Goodwill. And I was like, oh,

I'm telling you, I did it once. It was in Louisville, Texas. So I probably was either still in college and it was either a Play-Doh's closet or Buffalo Exchange. They were brutal there in 2007. So I can only imagine in 2023 Silver Lake people walking in with Shein. Yes, it was shocking. I had to stress. I had to go get a smoothie. I was so stressed out. I was like, I need like a moment. I was so stressed out. Can we put that on a t-shirt?

I can't do this. I was questioning my whole life. I was like, what did I buy? Why am I terrible? And this woman said to me at the end, they did buy things and I did make like a good amount of money, but nothing near how much I spent on this clothing. And she said to me, well, some of these things were really great, but if you wash them a few times, we'd maybe take them next time. Wow. You know who always takes my stuff?

You know who always takes it whenever I bring them? God. Goodwill on Crenshaw. They know me. I come there with a big old bag of something every other week and they're just like, okay. I love that we both were like, he was obviously going to say like Jesus. Jesus. The Lord always takes it. The Lord. Listen, Jesus was the original Goodwill. Bring it all to me.

Okay. They said wash it three more times. I hate that you just said. Drop this water into wine and maybe you can sell it next door around back to Stafford. And yeah. So anyway, I've been humbled tremendously. I walked in there being like, they're going to buy all this. This stuff is great. This is beautiful. Now, screw it. I'm never going back. I'm donating my clothing. I'm not doing this anymore. So that's my vibe this week.

You learned your lesson. You sure did. Yeah. But before we get into this episode, we want to thank all of you who have sent in fan mail and reached out to us on social media. We absolutely love reading your messages. Keep them coming. And I love that whenever we do videos lately, people have sent me little notes and someone noticed that I keep some of my books backwards on my shelf. Actually, a few people noticed this, which is just one shelf in the house. It's just like an aesthetic play that I'm trying that I picked up in Berlin. So please be nice to me. What does it do for you?

It just looks cool. We're going to talk about this later. A wall of beige. I really try not to be a book snob. I'm not, but I... Oh, let me tell you, our listeners are book snobs, and they clocked me, Saeed, so I may be switching them. I might have to do some investigation during this litany, this protest. All right. Well, with that, shall we jump in? Let's jump in. But first, I just want to say a quick thanks to all of the wonderful and lovely responses we got to our episode last week.

I'm so grateful we had the conversation and I was just honored and blessed by how many people reached out with similar stories of grief. And I am glad that we talked about it, are talking about it. And thanks to this wonderful Vibe Check community. We read all the emails and posts. Those emails are beautiful. Yeah. So thank you. They're so generous. Thank you. We got to talk about the story of the entertainment industry right now.

It's happening on the picket lines. You've heard it. You've seen it. Hollywood actors have joined Hollywood writers in striking. Last Thursday, the Screen Actors Guild authorized a strike, and the Writers Guild has been striking since May.

Both groups are fighting big corporations like Disney and Warner Brothers Discovery for higher pay, for more transparency in the world of streaming, for more residuals, which are the ongoing payments that you get should a show you write or act in becomes a big hit or go into syndication. And they're also asking for protections against AI, as that technology threatens a lot of people's livelihoods in this industry. I want to talk about how these strikes tie in a lot with other big –

labor moments that we're seeing all across industries in the country. But I got to start by asking both of my sisters, will the actors joining the writers on the picket lines get more Americans to pay attention? Like if Tom Cruise or Meryl Streep are out there with signs saying,

It has to, right? I think what I'm noticing right now is that the current strike that was going on before last week, if you weren't in Hollywood or LA, you could kind of forget it's happening. Does that change now with the actors in there too? Absolutely. I mean, these are our most, certainly when we get to, you know, celebrities and I do want to talk about like, you know, SAG represents such a huge range of performers and storytellers. Everybody is not a celebrity, but they're,

to the point of, you know, seeing people, I saw David Duchovny being on the picket line with a sign that said, the residuals are out there with like a little spaceship. I love that. You know, in terms of the scale of Hollywood, in terms of the people that it can reach nationally and globally, these are our storytellers. These are, you know, our most prominent, recognizable faces and storytellers, and they're very good at it. They're very good at making a moment when they need to, you know, and so I think they're like, oh, is this the script?

Let's go. What's my motivation in this scene? You know, yeah, I think, first of all, they're recognizable. The way social media, for example, I think is going to play a huge role here because, right, they don't need to be in a movie to have their face in front of millions of people. They all have their Instagram account.

And so if they decide to use social media in that way, I think it can be very compelling. And then joining forces with the writers who make all that storytelling possible for the screen. You know, I think that's a powerful combination. Yeah. I agree. I think it brings like a level of sexiness to the strike that...

makes America want to pay attention. It has like a literati around it. It has a sense of stakes because you're committed to these actors, these A-listers like Tom Cruise or whoever. You care about them. You go to the movies and now if you hear that they may not be in a movie for a while, you may begin to pay more attention to this because it's now impacting you directly where a lot of the strike has been focused on day players, actors who are background actors or et cetera, et cetera. Those that you may not know their names. So it's been very, people didn't care that much. Similar to the writer's

Most of Americans don't know who writes this stuff. Don't know TV writers. And so they just don't care. So the A-listers do help a lot, but I hope the A-listers can continue to hammer down the really big importance of the strike and what it means for everyday people. You know, most of the folks that are striking are working class. Tom Cruise is not working class. We love that he's showing up and pushing, but you know, most people don't even make over $24,000 a year to get health insurance.

The vast majority of writers in the Writers Guild don't hit the threshold to qualify for Writers Guild health insurance benefits. And that threshold is like $26,000. Yeah, I believe the statistic is like you need to make...

Twenty six thousand dollars a year from your work as a member of the Screen Actors Guild in order to qualify for health insurance, right? That's the threat. Yeah, and most of them don't get there and I think it's like 87% It's so it's like wait if 87% of a guild can't even qualify for like this minimum threshold then clearly something Yeah, but the other thing I want to say quickly is that with sag joining this is

I think now it's going to resonate with many other people who perhaps weren't already paying attention to the strike because now we have – it's not just recognizable faces. It's recognizable properties. Oh, yeah.

franchises, you know, so people have an association with them. Does that make sense? Not just the person, but with the show. And they're like, what? You were on that show and you had to work two jobs? That's crazy. You know what I mean? Well, there was this crazy story in The New Yorker basically documenting how a lot of the cast on Orange is a New Black, for the years that show was a hit, a lot of them had to have second jobs because they weren't being paid enough. You know, this has been going on for a while. I want to talk briefly about

What will change visually for Americans now that actors have joined this Hollywood strike? To start, a lot of productions that were scheduled for later this year or next have already been pushed back. Deadpool 3, Wicked, Gladiator 2, Beetlejuice 2. A lot of projects that were in the queue are pushed back, delayed, postponed. And on top of that, now that actors are striking, it doesn't just mean that they can't act.

It means that they cannot promote anything. They can't promote new movies. They can't promote new shows. They won't do things like Comic-Con, a really weird example of this in the last few days for the premiere of the Disney movie Haunted Mansion because they couldn't have the actors work the red carpet.

They had Mickey and Minnie Mouse walk the red carpet. Yeah, I saw like Maleficent. Yeah, it's wild. You know, because of course, Disney isn't just an amusement park. It's a huge studio. So it's very much a part of this. This is not a coincidence. And it felt like you're kind of taking advantage of these other workers. Low wage workers. The folks who wear those costumes are low wage. Yeah, these low wage workers, putting them in a difficult position.

Oh, totally. It's getting messy. What was the other thing? Was it Universal Studios cutting the trees? That's what I wanted to ask. It's getting nasty. Zach, on top of just like seeing the changes that actors can and can't do and the things that they are not a part of right now, this strike is also changing like the physical landscape of Los Angeles. Oh, you work near the Universal lot. It's getting crazy over there, huh?

Yeah, wherever you go, there's just not everywhere because the Universal lot is very specific and it's been reported on very widely that they're now doing a lot of renovations in front of it. There are multiple entrances. It's a massive place. So it's not like the whole thing is under construction, but one of the more visible places that people were striking right off the highway as you enter the

parks themselves the because universal lot is the production for film and tv and then also the amusement parks it's back there so you've seen some like changes there but the most visible one still remains paramount lot which still is like the most beautiful place to go if you want to join actors on striking but you're seeing through these strikes just how the literal infrastructure of la is built around actors so within one day of them striking it all began to fall apart in

things began changing. And the reason why they're able to do that construction at Universal is because there's nothing happening there. So that's going to be their argument most likely. It's like, oh, well, no one's using the lot, so we're just going to do stuff on it, which just shows you the sheer volume of actors and workers that are just not going to work right now. I've heard stories of these big studios...

doing little things to be nasty like yes cutting down the leaves off of trees where they know strikers will be so they don't have in the middle of a heat wave yeah or putting up cones and faking construction on a block so that the strikers have to be on the other side of the street further away from these buildings like these big corporations are kind of screwing with the strikers and that's been like a thing against the writer so it's going to be interesting when act

that are very famous are out there, what will the behaviors be? Because since they were writers, people have been, it's been interesting because it's been going on for what, eight weeks plus? Early May they started, the writers, yeah. We see them, if you live in LA, you see lots are everywhere. They're really kind of very present. And people now have just become really used to people marching and striking and they just ignore them. But now that celebrities are out there, I think they're going to pay attention a lot. But where you're also going to see them pay attention is

We're entering this fall festival schedule. Venice is coming up. We're seeing Venice announced in seven days. No celebrity's gonna go to that. Telluride, on and on Toronto Film Festival, which it directly impacts theaters next year. 'Cause if no one's going to these festivals and writing about them, then no one's gonna buy the films for theater. So next year's theater schedule is gonna be nothing pretty much. - In the same way the pandemic really stopped the regular TV and movie schedule and we're still getting back to normal,

This strike should have gone long enough, could have the same delaying effect on the entire industry. It's not just about television and movies, right? This is both very much connected to the labor movement and the changes we've seen, strikes across the industry. Teamsters might go on strike soon. UPS could go on strike soon. But I'm interested, again, in the elements because, again, like with this, we have, as I mentioned, some of the most recognizable faces in the world.

We have some of the most talented storytellers in the world, which is really important when you're trying to explain something to people. What's the story, you know? And the third crucial element when you're doing that is a villain.

And the way the studio execs have been acting, like you were saying with the little petty gestures or like Bob Iger's comments, like, oh, they're being unrealistic. And it's like they're just honestly asking for like a 2% change. And like we should point out, Bob Iger, this is the head of Disney, in the last five years, according to CNBC, he made $195 million. Wow.

Right.

This is crazy, and this is the same thing that we're seeing in so many other industries. The people at the very top are making hundreds of times what those at the very bottom are making in these companies, and it's led to nurses striking, graduate students striking, school workers striking, hotel workers, UPS employees, Starbucks employees, Amazon employees striking.

This is a thing that is happening in every industry across America. And it's having this effect that not everyone, not even most of the 1% makes as much as Zaslav. But there is a class now due to tech, due to different industries having this huge gap in payment or paying that there's a group of people that can afford a lot of things and the most people that can afford anything. And it's literally changing the landscapes of major cities. So Los Angeles has become a focal point

of labor strikes in the past year from hotel workers to student strikers to Hollywood because you can't afford to even get a house here. I was reading in the LA Times here, people making 25 bucks an hour at the hotels downtown have rents that are $3,200 a month. They're taking out loans to make rent and now they're drowning in debt. And that is why just this past, I think, two weeks,

LA was named through statistical analysis, the place where half of the unhoused population of the U S lives in California and mostly LA due to all of these factors hitting at once. And it's just really frightening for people.

Two things that I want people to remember are that, one, one of my refrains over the last few months is that strikes are so powerful for many reasons. But one of them is even just as an observer, right, the moment you start asking questions, well, why are they striking? What do you mean? I don't know. Aren't they all rich? And you start getting some information. You very quickly, just as an observer with some curiosity, will learn a lot about your labor.

your rights, right? Like you're a school teacher reading about this. I can go, wait, that starts to sound a little familiar. You know, I didn't, I wouldn't have expected to have something in common with these people in LA on the other side of the country, but I'm a hotel worker in Columbus, Ohio, and this dynamic feels uncomfortably familiar. So that's powerful. And we all need to seize this as an opportunity to learn and maybe, you know, start looking around in our own, you know, labor environs.

But the second thing is, you know, this is going to cause a lot of pain, which is the point of strikes, right? You bring it to a halt. You make them suffer. And you say, look, we tried to talk and you're not listening. But what I want to remind people is that historically strikes emerged as an alternative to the other option, which was fine. We'll just burn this factory down.

Do you want to be inside it when we do it? There you go. That's actually the alternative. Yeah. The strike is a nice way of doing things. Yep. People should understand that. That is a nice way of doing things. Yeah. I just hope that...

People see how all of this is connected. I'll see folks online saying, well, who cares about these Hollywood strikers? They've got money. They're rich fat cats. It's like, no, the average person working in the industry is working class. And there's a level of working class solidarity amongst all these striking groups that I hope people see.

And I hope it keeps going. There's already talk that people who make reality content are going to form their own union as well and that they might be striking too at some point. Right now, anything that's unscripted or reality has been exempt from these strikes. That could change. And you know what I say? Good. Everybody gets your money. If David Zaslav can make –

$500 million in five years as the worst CEO in the biz. Yeah, after making terrible decisions. Terrible decisions. Strike, strike, strike. I'm going to find a way to get on these picket lines this week at some point too just to see it and be out there with that energy. But I'm all about it. I'm all about it. And what's interesting to kind of point back to something Saeed has said

consistently on the show, which is representation is a trap, is that we're seeing in real time through these strikes, especially with the actors and writers, that just because they live in LA, just because they're on TV, just because you recognize them from a show. I think Michelle Hurd, who's the vice president of SAG, the local LA chapter, who if you Google her, you'll be like, oh, I've seen her on so many shows. She's like, girl, I make

maybe $7,000 an episode. So if I do three episodes across three shows in a year, I have made $21,000 plus, but everyone can point me out on the street. That means nothing. I can't even make rent right now. And I think it just shows you that visibility doesn't mean we're free yet. Just because you see these people on TV doesn't mean they're being treated fairly. And we need a real reckoning of that. And that's what Orange is Blue Black. When that came out, I had no idea these people were being so mistreated and they launched Netflix. They had second jobs.

And it's so significant because, of course, Orange is the New Black and House of Cards were the two shows that really signaled a transformation in television's relationship to streaming, which has everything to do with this. But yeah, I'm really interested. I'm interested in what this means for creators and influencers because I'm sure these studios are going to be trying to reel them in in probably unsavory ways. Yeah, this is...

I think this is going to go on for a while And I think the nicest way to say it Is we're all going to learn a lot There you go And to close, shout out to Fran Drescher Former star of The Nanny Head of SAG She's been doing the damn thing Hats off to her

She is firing up giving a performance. She makes me very nervous. But her press conference last week, I was like, you got it, girl. You got it. She did it. Because again, she's an actor. It's just like, why would you do that? Why would you decide to make an enemy with people who are like, my entire job is to create moments and tap into people's empathy and to get them to care. Of course, Fran Drescher, also with the most recognizable voice ever.

Yeah. Look, being rich, it's obvious. We know this so many times. We look at people at Elon. Just because you're rich and powerful, it does not mean you're smart. There you go. And I think these Hollywood executives have demonstrated because, wow, they picked a hell of a fight. Yeah. I wish these actors and writers and storytellers well. I wish them the best. And just to close the loop on this, what we're saying, this whole chat,

Stand with labor. Always and forever. Stand with labor. Time for a break. When we come back, we're going to talk about another young man who's working very hard. Troy Sivan.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands. I

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

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All right, girlies, we are back, and we're going to switch gears from the hot strike summer to the hot horny summer. Ayy.

And hey, both can exist at the same time. Look, we're working it out and we're getting it in, girls. But let's talk about Troye Sivan's music video, Rush. And I decided to take the lead on this conversation, both because I genuinely like the song, but also because, as I mentioned, I was on Fire Island with my best friends and some new friends and our house. And as it happened, Thursday night was our first night together.

altogether on Fire Island and we decided to, you know, get drunk, make cocktails, and we're already having a good time and decided to do one of my favorite things to do with my friends on the weekends, which is to get really drunk and then just do a YouTube music video dive.

Yeah, it's an honestly game. It's really fun. Someone mentions like Doji's Persuasion and then, you know, next thing you watch Doja Cat, next thing you know you're watching Brandy sitting up in my room. And so at some point we're watching video after video after video. Everyone's throwing out requests and then I guess Rush had just come out. Now, I was prepared not to like it.

because y'all be doing too much out here, white gays. You know, like sometimes people just try to start making a thing into a thing. We're not going to name names, but damn, but damn. But you know, it's a phenomenon that I have a skepticism, that sense of where I'm like,

is another new pop moment about to be forced on me, about to be manufactured onto me. But we're sitting in the cabin, the video comes on, and I'm like, literally, my arms crossed, sitting back, okay, let's, like, I like Troye Sivan, but I don't, like, love his music is kind of how I felt. Within moments, within moments of this song and this music video starting, I sat up. I sat up and leaned forward and was like, wait a minute. Oh, wow.

And it just got better and better. But as it turns out, now that I'm back on the mainland with actual phone reception, everyone doesn't feel the same way about this song and music video. So, let me say, I

I, last week, saw this song was a new thing and the gays were discussing it. Then I watched the video and I was like, good for you, not for me. And I told y'all yesterday, I was like, I'm not sure I'm into this song. You said you were like, it's all right. I'm like, it's all right. Once you get past the bears talk singing the chorus, you're like, okay. But then...

I played it some more yesterday on my fancy headphones and I heard the bass for real. I regret to inform you or I'm happy to inform you that I love this song.

I love this song now. I don't know what happened. Troy got me. He got me. It worked. I mean, I feel so much better about this song than about Padom Padom. This is a song. This is a song. And actually, it's funny because you mentioned the chant and you were like, what are these guys? Like, whatever. The reason I think it's very clever is that because Troye Sivan is Australian, you know, by way of, I believe, South Africa, it's mimicking a football chant.

It's mimicking fans in the stands. I feel the way. And so I love there's something about this unexpected collision between a very masculine, you know, arguably kind of homophobic tradition colliding with like the gayest little pop song. And part of why it's so fun is because Troye Sivan's voice never does that.

He has this light, almost way fish voice. And so in the chorus, you hear the bears chanting. And then Troy comes in and goes, and you're like, oh, this juxtaposition is really cool. It's very satisfying. Yeah. And he has this, I was telling someone, because look, we've,

easily listened to the song more than 30 times. And I was like, wow. It got to the point that like at the underwear party, Occupy, the disco, anywhere where you were like outside and couldn't quite hear the music, there was a moment where one of us would be like, is this Rush? And we'd be ready to run back inside, you know? It's so silly. But the other thing I love about it is

particularly at the beginning of the verses, you're right, there's the contrast between the very masculine group chant, I feel the rush, and then his falsetto has a breathiness to it. And I was telling someone that I was like, in The Great Gatsby, Nick Carraway, the narrator, describes Daisy Buchanan's voice as like a voice that sounded like money. And that's what it made me think, that kind of breathy, oh.

you know, like, well, you just kind of want to lean forward and get closer. Also, this is why I love Saeed Jones because he can draw a through line from Troye Sivan to the great Gatsby. Daisy Buchanan would be living for Rush. She'd be like, oh. Zach likes this song. Zach, do you like this song? Well, it's funny. Okay, so I like it. I'm loving this so much. I love what y'all are saying and I agree so much. I really do like the song and I think I love the song is because it,

plays into nostalgia really well like that chanting takes you back to like the village people and their songs which is chanting it takes you to a lot of the clunky gay music of the 80s that had high falsettos but also dance beats under it but it also takes us to a place that no one's talking about which I'm surprised with but it's obviously referencing one very very very famous music video that everyone knows and loves you know what music video it's by a woman pop star which one

I'm a slave for you, Britney Spears. What? Say more. It begins with both pop stars singing by themselves, walking through a party by themselves, and eventually being enveloped by the sexuality of a party that breaks into dancing, the sun rising above them in a post-apocalyptic world. Troy's in Berlin. She's in like a futuristic place. It's playing with like similar aesthetics and sensibilities of pleasure. Okay.

But what I think it also makes me think a lot about is, and I'm going to throw something out there inside. Please punch me in the face as I say this, but it's making me think of like theoretically what I think it's offering us and why people are so angry at it. Cause we should get to like the weird backlashes, which were very far left and very specific to certain parts of Twitter.

is that it's giving us what I'm trying to call like a post-AIDS pleasure moment visually, where you're seeing a group of gay men engaging in what feels like the 70s before AIDS. They go dancing, a club, dirtiness, sexual, fearing, anything. It feels like group sex, but they're dancing. Yes, but they're dancing. Because they're like in Berlin warehouses, which makes me think of like peer dock parties

And he literally has, there's a glory hole. He spits in like a urinal. I miss that. Yeah. Oh, there's a moment. There's a shot that comes and he's literally kneeling in front of her. In a glory hole. But it's kind of a sexual freedom that we haven't really seen in queer music or visuals since the AIDS epidemic happened.

hit because every time we showed them, you had to kind of hit towards the AIDS epidemic. But now in an era of prep and kind of the freedom that Gen Z is feeling with their bodies and pleasure, it feels like a return, but also like a future version of that. So I just like that it's kind of, for me, it's offering this like new sensibility we're seeing kind of spread really fast across this pop music that isn't even that popular, by the way. I think Vulture said that like Troye Sivan's part of a failed pop singer group that's like Charli XCX,

Troye Sivan, all these people that, Kim Petras in many ways, that are doing pop music that not everyone knows about. Well, they are, like, there's this category of like,

gay pop for gay parties. And it feels like this song fits into that. But also, I'm okay with it. Like, what I like about Troye Sivan and this song is that he knows exactly what this song is and what it needs to be. It's not actually made for mass consumption. Like, it's made for queer people. It's made for queer men. And like, that's cool. I don't know.

I kind of feel like it is made for mass consumption. Like, it's like, if you know, you know, right? Yeah. But, you know, I could see, I don't know, straight people who have, like, no sense of the references, who don't know what Rush is an allusion to. It's an allusion to, clearly, poppers, which don't appear in the music video, right? And that feels clever. There's a glory hole, and you didn't even notice it. Yeah, you didn't clock it. Okay, okay. Yeah.

You know, and then the song, it stands on its, you know, I'm sure people are going to be like, it's definitely a party song. It's definitely like, it feels horny, but you know, I think it can work. Well, can we use that though, Sam, as like a bridge to talk about this backlash, which is that when the video came out, people felt like it wasn't as inclusive as it should be. So we should point out for those who do not know what this young man looks like, Troye Sivan is pretty white and skinny. You could call him a twink. Yeah.

And in the video, he's dancing with a lot of other fit men. And I guess some people online have been mad about this and saying that...

It's glorifying one type of body, and they've even gone so far as to call the music video for this song body fascism. Yeah, and I also want to say, if you haven't seen the video, because I think from one lens, the way we've talked about it, you may think it's literally just skinny white gay men in the video, but there is actually a lot of diversity in the video. There are femmes, there are white,

women I'm not trying to surveil people's identities but it looks like in a lot of ways a pretty diverse group of people there are queer couples that are not just men with men they're women you know like all of that but there are not people with larger bodies yeah I guess it's like for me I don't understand backlash to one music video

It's just one music video. Does he have to have everybody type and every kind of person in a two and a half minute music video? Like, what is the responsibility he has visually to anybody? I was thinking about it. I haven't been on my phone all weekend. You know what I mean? I've had an organic experience with the song and my group of friends. So, of course, I'm like, well, I'm biased. So let me step out of my space for a second and think about this. When I stepped back and took some time to consider, my issue is if Troye Sivan is

had come out and the way he had packaged this video and was talking about it and said, this video is about liberation. This video is, you know what I mean? Like if he was trying to directly connect it to this video is about an important kind of representation and we're fighting back. And, you know, if he was trying to connect it to, I don't know, the anti-LGBT legislation and everything, you know, like if he was trying to make it political in an explicit way,

then that would raise the threshold where I go, okay, well then let's look at how this, the consistency, the integrity of the message. He just put the song out. He just put the song out. I was reading an interview and he was like, you know, in the last few years I discovered I really like to party and I really like to have sex. And that is going to inform this. The album title is something like something to give each other, which is like orgasms. I think it's pleasure. It's very clear. You know what I mean? So I don't know. I think that,

And that while I was watching the video, I did feel like there was actually a lot of diversity in a way that felt organic to me. And I say that in, look, hours before, I'm watching Brandy music videos, Janet Jackson music videos, and they're dancers. I don't know. I didn't... Yeah, and I feel similar. I'm not shocked by the backlash, but just wish people would...

I don't know, leave more space for these artists, especially artists like Troye Sivan, who even though you may love the song and care about it, most people have not heard it, similar to Badam. And he isn't, you know, I don't know, not even Lizzo level of like fame. Like he is not a super, super, super famous pop star. And people keep putting him in conversation with Sam Smith.

And they're trying to use Sam Smith's backlash that they face as example of fat phobia that Troy releases a sexy video. People are like, oh, amazing, sexy, hot. Sam does it. People are like, ew, gross, et cetera, et cetera. And yes, there's very clear fat phobia Sam Smith deals with, body shaming, all these things. But on a level of fame, Sam Smith is currently on tour, a global tour.

Sam is selling out arenas multiple nights, Madison Square Garden for multiple nights. Troye Sivan is an opening act for most of these pop stars in the world. They're very different. So I think if Troye as a song becomes bigger, we'll see more people talking about it. But I hate this comparison of the two because Sam operates on a global level where Sam's doing a Brazil tour. Troye Sivan's not doing a Brazil tour. So I don't know, I just kind of want Troye who seems to have been able to find himself in the public eye from being an actor in little small films to the show, "The Idol," which Sam loves.

I'm kidding. Yo, they did Troye Sivan's character bad in the idol. They did bad in the idol. I'm not even going to open that door. You don't want to. I'm walking right through. But I would say Troye, Troye from like Troye's song, like My My My to Gloom has been evolving. I like you. It's my favorite song of his. Yes. Has been like similar to Janelle Monáe been using their public voice

to come out slowly in their own way. And I just, any backlash to them exploring their own pleasure in public, I think is just silly to me. Well, also, it's just like, he has not done anything bad to anybody. He's around LA a lot. Every now and then, I'll just see him in passing, and it just seems like a nice guy. And you're like, Troy, live your life. You ain't hurting nobody. There's this, and I also don't want to overstate it, but there is a certain...

defensive stance that certain people on the internet are always in and they're always looking for a way to critique something or say it's not for everyone or say it's bad. That's just what they do and I feel like in moments like this, we can ignore it and just say, I like this song.

I mean, look, and listen, I'm telling you, I think I was prepared to be there. I literally have, I literally, someone was like, oh, put on Rush. And I was like, fine, whatever. And crossed my arms. You know how I am. Crossed my arms and sat back on the couch. Like, because I remember seeing like, you know, because I do follow, I think, Troy on Instagram and seeing the promo. And I was like, oh.

Whatever, whatever. And then, you know, I think it's like, of course, you're allowed to feel how you feel and you need to embrace that. But I think also make space to be surprised. And this was an instance where I was like, wait a minute, my posture changed. Yes. And, you know, and we'll see because this is the other thing that I've been thinking about lately. It's also OK to sit back.

It's also okay to say, like you said, I love that for you. Oh, that's great. You're like, I listened to it once and you know, it's, I didn't immediately add it to a place. But what I tell people is like, if people are rotten, they're rotten to their core. And with time it will come out. If choice of Vaughn does not wish us well, I am here to tell you, it will not take us long for that to become clear. And also this is the trick of the internet. I don't think that's the case, but yeah. And this is the trick in the trap of the internet is,

The age of the algorithm where everything comes to us tailored for us makes us think that everything made should be for us. That ain't the case. Not everything is for you and that's okay.

You don't like it, you can move on. But we've been trained to think that whatever we see on our screens or hear in our headphones has to be tailored just for us. That's not how life works. Girl, move on. If you want another summertime bop, one that always works is Will Smith and Jazzy Jeff's Summertime. Never disappoint. Play that one as long as you want. Uncle Sam. Let Troy live. Uncle Sam says let Troy live. And that's that. Let Troy live.

With Will Smith. I can't believe. Look at us. Look at us. I can't believe they got us out here defending this little twink. Look at us supporting this man. Lord Jesus. Anyway, girls, that's our opinion.

Anyway, girls, that's our opinion. Anyway, girls, that's our opinion for now on Rush by Troye Sivan. I was going to say, how do you feel? Let us know. But honestly, I don't care because I really like this song. I listen to it on repeat on the way to the studio here. So that's where I am. Okay, we're going to take a break and we're going to come back.

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Listeners, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right or throwing us off this week. I have something I want to share that I love, but I'm going to let y'all go first. So, Saeed Jones, what's on your vibe waves this week?

Well, I am after we finished recording. I'm on my way back to Columbus. As soon as I get back to my apartment, I'm going to sit down and play Diablo 4. I think it's been a minute since I've talked about a video game on the podcast. But Diablo 4 for the last it came out in, I think, early June. It's the game I've been playing. I'm in deep deep.

I am like a level 53 sorcerer. Know me. I am black. I am fabulous. I serve looks. I kill demons. It's really fun. The game's kind of thing is like at this point, our world in this game is so far gone that distinctions between good and evil are kind of secondary, which is kind of an

interesting thesis, but it's a really fun game and the reason I've enjoyed it lately is that, unlike most video games that I play at least, where you can just pause at any moment, which is to say, oh, I got a text

From Zach, let me just pause and see what's going on. Or let me go into the kitchen. When you're kind of in the world, it's not safe for you to just pause. The demons, you know, like if you're like in the middle of a field and you think you're okay, yeah, you stop paying attention for a second and pick up your phone if you want to. Next thing you know, a giant scorpion can kind of like jump out. Yeah.

That sounds stressful. It is stressful, but what I've loved is as someone who wants to be on my phone less, who wants to create these little bubbles where I can just not be thinking about the news constantly, the game's been very helpful. When you're in it, you're in it. Does that make sense? It's all-consuming. Yeah, I like that. To me, I think it's

It's been fun to refresh it. And it's beautiful, the design and the world of it. It just keeps expanding. It already felt big when I started playing, and it's just gotten larger, and there's so many side challenges. So even when I technically finished the story of the game, I could still play it. I could still create different characters and

And it's just, it's been pretty fun. And a friend of mine, Cameron Granger, wonderful artist in Ohio doing great work. He is a gamer. He's in deep. And he saw a picture of my character on my Instagram story. And he said, Sayid, that is one of the best looking black video game characters I've ever seen.

And I was like, what? And so I started thinking about like, oh, often you don't have a lot of options. They don't have a lot of skin tones and all that. And so I love, I have this dark skin, fierce ass, gorgeous black woman, just fucking shit up, fucking shit up. So, yeah.

That's my stress reliever and my joy bringer. Side, you make me want to get a PlayStation or Xbox again. I used to be a big gamer growing up and I just haven't as an adult because I get too addicted to it. But, you know, you really inspire me sometimes. Well, Sam, let's keep your vibes right.

My recommendation this week is a movie called Joyride. I saw it over the weekend with some friends, and it was delectable. This is a movie. Delectable. It was, yeah. It's starring Ashley Park, Stephanie Hsu, Sherry Cola, and Sabrina Wu. And the quickest way to describe this is it's giving girls trip energy, but it's an all Asian cast, and the trip is to China. Yeah.

To Beijing. To Beijing and in other places. You scared me with the girls trip, bro. I was like, wait a minute now. But it is a fun romp of a women-led comedy in the spirit of girls trip, in the spirit of bridesmaids. But what makes this movie really sore for me is how horny it is.

And how amazing Stephanie Hsu is in a role that could have been a farce. She elevates this role. She is truly Oscar caliber. And every time she's talking or you even see her face, you're just like, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

She's amazing. She filmed it before she was nominated for the Oscar. So it's amazing. It's like the last movie she did before all the buzz around everything everywhere happened. So it's like this moment you're like, no, you're consistently good in everything. She's captivating. I've been wanting to get back in. I watched like

The first season of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel But Stephanie Hsu appears later in the show And I've seen one It's the way TikTok kind of gets you to watch the show I saw one little clip with her character And she's mesmerized She's just one of those people where just Every little thing she does She brings like a verve to it Where I just can't take my eyes off of

Well, and I will say, if this movie is still in movie theaters in your neighborhood and you want to go see it, go see it there. They were hoping for a larger opening weekend for this movie. I want to say it made about $7 million opening weekend. They were hoping for $10 million plus. I hate to trot out this kind of trope of an idea that is in Hollywood a lot, but a lot of times...

What guarantees future films led by all Asian women cast is the success of the current ones. So if you have any inkling of wanting to go see this movie, go see it in a theater. It's worth your support. I like it a lot. It's so good. And Sam, I have a surprise for you that I just found on my desk as you've been talking. But does this look familiar? That's the tattoo. I don't want to give it away, but like a tattoo that's in this movie. How do you have that?

I was at a screening premiere, whatever, and they gave us these. I love it. And I didn't know what it was. I was like, why did I get this random devil tattoo? Then I finished the movie, and I was overwhelmed with why I had to get a devil tattoo. Yes.

Zach, what is your vibe wreck this week? So my wreck originally was going to be a recipe because I've been posting pictures of me cooking, but I'll say that for another time. But what I will give to people because we're talking about rush and we keep talking about sexy, horny music.

I discovered a new artist and it was the first time I discovered someone lately that I got super excited about. And her name is Amore. She's a Ghanaian R&B artist by way of Ghana and Atlanta. But she released an album in June and it's called Fountain Baby. And it is incredible.

It is sexy. It is luscious. It is sensual. It is dancey. It is R&B. The single is called Co-Star. And what is amazing about this album, beyond it being kind of amazing Afrofuture pop and kind of meeting this moment of like the summer of pleasure, is that its release could have it banned in Ghana later this year because the artist, she doesn't identify as queer. She identifies as fluid, but her music is very queer. Right.

And Ghana is about to pass some of the harshest anti-LGBTQ legislation on the continent of Africa. Like even Kamala Harris went to go visit to go talk leadership down from passing this. And this album has become kind of a focal point in what would be lost if they pass these bans. And it's an incredible, like I think Pitchfork gave it five stars or five. It's getting a lot of critical reception. I just pulled up Spotify on my phone so I can listen to it after this. Yeah, definitely will listen. Wow.

All right, Fountain Baby. Someone just sent me the cover art for Troye Sivan's album. Oh, yeah. This girl is living. You don't see this? Living. In between a trunk. In between a man's legs. He is smiling in between a man's legs. In between the thighs. Go ahead. All we got left, all I have faith in basically at this point is art, orgasms, and friendship. So look. Wow. That's all you need. Wow.

Wow. Do you? Well, listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's keeping your vibe right? Are you loving? Troy, I want to hear if Saeed doesn't, so just let me know. Yeah, just let Zach know. Just let me know. But you can let us all know anything you want at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend, tell a hookup, tell a man on the dance floor if you must.

Huge thanks to our long-suffering producer, Chantel Holder. She loves it. We love you. She loves it. We love Chantel. We do. Thanks to Sam Kiefer and Brendan Burns and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also, special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher, who Zach and I got to hang out with in L.A. last weekend. So delightful. We did. And special thanks to Brandisha Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. Queen.

Queen, I love when I get to come into the Stitcher offices because then I'm sitting across from Nora. And so seeing Nora burst out laughing in the other room is just really fun. I don't get that when I'm in Columbus. Love it. And of course, we want to hear from you. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram and Threads.

And of course, our handles are at TheFerocity, at Zach Staff, at Sam Sanders, and probably at Troy Zavon at this point. Use the hashtag 5CheckPod. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Bye. Bye. Your face as you're saying Sam. You better leave this in. JTAL, do not cut it. We're getting our lives.

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