Dupe Fiasco
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This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare. ♪

I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford, and you are listening to Vibe Check. The three of us are all in the same country. No, we're not in the same country. We're not. You're still abroad. Okay. I'm still far away. Where are you? I'm in the city of Paris, which Saeed, I keep talking about Paris. Because Craig was like, I should be writing in Paris. I was like, you know, Saeed wrote in Paris, I think.

That's true. But honestly, I prefer to write in Berlin if I had to choose. See, I just came from Berlin. Yeah. Because Berlin has, I mean, okay, Parisian Twitter or, you know, the Parisian listeners might read me the house down. But I feel like Berlin has a better like cafe culture and like more parks and that openness. You need to have the secret to writing successfully out in public is feeling like you're okay getting like your one cup of tea or

your one lager and sitting, you know, for hours, like really, and not feeling the pressure to, and I think Berlin does that a little bit better than Paris. I agree. Paris, I feel nervous. I haven't been to Berlin, but when I have been to Paris, I just go to eat. I'm not thinking about anything else but eating. Because let me tell you, they know how to cook and they know how to use butter. Yeah.

In everything. Everything is butter. Everything. Ooh, they love butter. That is me, baby. Things are fried. There is butter. It is like, it's not black, but black people would love this cuisine. If it's good enough for Josephine Baker, it's good enough for me. Wow. And there it is. That is it. That is Josephine, James, all these girls. Zach, how was your week? How's your vibe? I mean, my vibe...

I'm good. I'm just happy to see y'all. It's great to be back, even though I'm not back in the country. And I also want to say hello to our Berlin listeners because we have a bunch. I got a lot of notes from people. We've had listeners send in a Google Maps of things to do, which I did do. That's nice. Like a lot of things. Really, thank you, listeners. We love when you all reach out, but especially in foreign countries, I did not know. Oh, wait. When you were in Berlin, did you get to go to... I should have texted you about this. Did you go to Tempelhof Park?

No, what's that? I think the neighborhood's called Kreuzberg. There is an old airport in this neighborhood. Oh, I wanted to go to this. And the airport's closed now, but they kept the runways and everything, and they just turned it into a huge park. You know how runways and airports have that huge green thing? It's so beautiful and peaceful. I would go there every morning. I wanted to go to that, but that's it.

thing, and that's my final note about America versus Europe, is that Europe loves a park. And I miss parks like that. They'll make everything a green space. Cars are not as important. It just is really about you being out in public space, which actually ties into today's episode about who gets to be in public space and who doesn't.

Look at that. I'm just telling y'all what we're talking about today. So today on Vibe Check, we are going to be talking about that new bill that just passed in Tennessee that y'all probably heard about. It's giving very 1950s tease, but my home state is trying to ban drag queens. And yes, they are trying to ban drag queens.

And then we're also talking about one of my favorite topics, which is the rise of dupes, which I'm just beyond excited to talk about. And I want to state to our listeners, Zach has been itching to have this conversation for a few weeks or months now. So it's finally time and I'm ready for it. I'm ready. And I will...

admit that Zach is the first person not on like TikTok or in an article that I was reading that actually was really talking about it. So until you mentioned, I thought it was just like a TikTok trend. And I was like, this isn't real life, but it turns out it is. It's the whole thing. You, Zach, are real life. I am real life, but I could be a dupe for someone. We'll see. You could be a dupe for someone. Who?

Anyway, well, how are y'all doing? It's been a minute. How are we doing? Sam, I feel like you're doing quite good because I saw your Instagram. Yeah. So I posted some photos on Instagram last night, but those who are close to me know that for the last few months, I have been in the process of buying the house that I've been renting for the last year plus. And I've been renting it for the last year plus.

For years now, I had told myself Southern California homeownership is not for me because the mortgage is too damn high. And I just wasn't looking and hadn't planned to do it. And I had kind of in the back of my head resigned myself to be a long-term renter for a very long time. But the owners of the house I'm renting who moved abroad told me months ago that they're not planning to come back to the States and that they would love to sell the house to me

off market if we could just have all the price together. So I couldn't say no because it was so easy. There were no real estate agents, no brokers. We found a lawyer to do the documents on the internet.

And literally the first time I had to deal with a person in the flesh to do anything was when I signed all the forms yesterday. It was all virtual. And so I'm grateful. I'm looking at the Instagram story. Is that the notary? Yeah, she was so cool. My notary was a sweetheart. She looks lovely. She came by and we had champagne together to celebrate. We talked all about how she was just in Vegas for the Adele show. She was the homie. But that was the first time I actually was in the flesh with a person to do this stuff. It was all virtual.

And, you know, my vibe in the midst of this is in intense gratitude for this being able to happen. But also I'm feeling very conflicted. I mean,

Home ownership in a place like Southern California is fraught. It is fraught. I live in a part of the country where a lot of people don't have secure housing. And part of the reason why is that homeowners fight and block the things that would more equitably house people in this area.

So on the one hand, I'm so grateful and happy to fulfill this part of a dream for myself. But I also don't want to become one of those awful, nimby homeowners who screws over people who aren't homeowners. And so what I'm thinking about now is how to be a good homeowner and a good neighbor and respect all my community. So that's the work. And I'm also just trying not to even think about

how houses just cost you money. - Yeah, they do cost you money. - That's my vibe. - You know, you have to take a second though, within all those complications, all this kind of systemic issues that we carry with us and that sits on top of us, you have to really take refuge in the fact that you are a black man from Texas,

who does not come from money, who had to fight for his way here, and you got a house in a black neighborhood. That is something to be celebrated today, I think. So congratulations. I am proud of it. So when you go through the process, you have like several moments within it where you can pull out and say, I don't want to do it anymore. And the last day I could have said no and only lost a few thousand dollars.

I had to make that decision on MLK Day. And they were like, take 24 hours. If you want to not do it, that's all right. And I was like, you know what? Maybe I should just save my money. But it was MLK Day in my black ass neighborhood. And I was walking the dog and there was an MLK March. And there was a float from some black nonprofit that works in black real estate. And they were chanting, build black wealth, own black homes. And I was like, oh, that's a sign. Oh my

Oh, that's amazing. And then a realtor came up to me and sang the Beyonce lyrics. I can do for you what Mark did for the people. And I signed the dotted line right there. Oh, my God.

Wow. Okay. Build black wealth. Well, there you go. Yeah, that happens. I think you're going to make a joke this thing. Like you, you realize that you had a dream and that dream was a house. But no, it was less corny, more accurate. My God. Well, congratulations. Thank y'all. Y'all. Zach has seen my house. Say, come on down and visit. Okay. Well, um, say before I know we have to get to our segments, but say, how are you doing? What's the tea? And,

And cute. I was in New York last week and over the weekend with my boyfriend. Eating some good food, it looked like. Eating great food. We went to – there's a lovely Korean restaurant in Chelsea that we like to go to for special occasions. We had a little, like, postponed Valentine's Day dinner there, and that was really great. And I don't know. It was just lovely. We got to spend time with our friends Jet and Nina and –

um i still you know new york is new york city who wow i i feel i feel feelings like like haas was like okay we're going to go outside we are going to and i was like okay i just need another minute i just need another minute it's a lot it's a lot it's just intense there is such an intensity and that's often productive and inspiring but i just find it very overwhelming but you know

The density of great restaurants, great people, fashion. I mean, the people on the street, the clothes. You know, all of that is I do soak it up. I soak it up like a sponge, like a Monet exchange. And then I bring my black ass home back to the heartland. To Columbus.

Oh my God. I love it. I love it. And I'm glad you're in Columbus because when we get into dupes, you know, your city is like mall central. Like it's where like all the biggest brands. Oh yeah. All the test markets are here. Limited everything. So like we can get into your hometown is really, I think at the core of like, you know, buying things, which we'll get into. Look at me.

yeah look at you center all right well before we get into this episode we want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail and reached out to us on social media uh and we want to highlight one note we got from uh kashif g because she writes hello ladies just sending a brief message to say that vibe check is a point of light and humor every wednesday for a black gay boy living in the south pressing play on vibe check is like making my way through a white city and arriving at the

parlor of a southern gothic home you three are sitting there with your fans and in the midst of a fiery debate punctuated by laughter and sips of spiked tea spiked sweet tea you ask what took me so long you three keep me writing and creating and i just love love love that note that is a beautiful that's beautiful it was beautiful what took me so long i love that well you know i say because she if you are always on time

You know what I mean? You need to be here. Welcome, love. Yeah, welcome, welcome. Keep writing to us. Y'all can reach out to us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And Kashif has now set the standard for the... I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Y'all better write these letters. I'm like, if you are not giving us art... Y'all don't get too stressed out. Keep writing. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, ladies, shall we jump into this week? Let's go. Let's do it. Let's do it.

All right. So to kick things off this week, we want to talk about drag bans, which are booming in America, sadly, alongside anti-trans legislation and just generally anti-queer things just happening everywhere, everywhere all at once. Not to make a bad pun, but let's start off with my home state, Tennessee, which is where lawmakers passed a bill just this week, and it will be signed into law by.

the governor, who has promised he will be doing this, that plans to restrict drag performances in public or in front of children, putting the state at the forefront of a Republican-led effort to limit drag in at least 15 states in recent months. That's 15. That's a lot. So in Tennessee, once the bill is signed, a first offense would be a misdemeanor crime and a subsequent offense, a felony carrying a sentence of between one and six years of prison time. Yes, it's not even like

Yeah. How are they? And also in public and where you're not supposed to, what does that mean? That's the vagueness. That's the mess. And we're going to talk, I think a lot about that because that vagueness, as we've said with police and other forms of power, it's dangerous. It's how they, they keep you. Um,

And what's weird is I have a personal connection to the beginnings of this bill. So a few years ago in 2017, a town called Portland, Tennessee, which is in Sumner County, which is where I am from in Tennessee, north of Nashville, was in the news because they tried to ban drag

period, not like all forms. And a cousin of mine was actually involved. He was a performer at the club and it was like a whole mess. And I was a reporter at the time. So it's a big, it was a weird moment for me. And the idea was that drag would be banned because they were performing at a bar. But the middle ground that they made there because the bill couldn't pass is that just drag that had nudity or had other adult entertainment qualities wasn't allowed in public spaces and had to be in like a strip club or something.

That's such a distraction because most drag is not nudity. Exactly. Most of the drag shows you go to are not nudity. It just makes me so angry. But I'm like, adult elements. You're in a bar. Are these men banning strip clubs? No, they sure aren't. And Tennessee has some of the highest rates of strip clubs, like Nashville does specifically. It doesn't make sense. So what was wild at the time is that

This was actually kind of celebrated by local civil rights groups by saying, oh, look, we protected people's First Amendment right, which is where drag falls. Drag falls in your First Amendment right. One of the biggest, most known free speech, free expression of self is your constitutional right. So they were like, we won because it's going to go to strip clubs. And it's kind of really well defined. It's like, if there's nudity. These girls in Tennessee saw an opening and they took it, which gives us this new bill. So this new bill is very vague.

It doesn't really say a lot actually. And a lot of drag queens and trans people in Tennessee, I've seen personally, 'cause I'm from this place, are really freaking out. 'Cause we don't know exactly, does this mean drag at a concert? And does that mean Madonna, who has Bob the Drag Queen performing with her this summer in Nashville, is that now illegal? And will Bob the Drag Queen be arrested because it's at a stadium? - And because it would be at a stadium as opposed to a gay bar. - Exactly, at a stadium.

or you have a wedding. And a lot of us and our queer friends like drag queens at our weddings. What happens if you have a wedding and there's a drag queen there? Does that mean that you will then also be arrested because of this? So it's too, too, too vague. And then one of the other fears is that

will trans people be overly policed because of this? So what does it mean to have a trans person do a comedy set? That's a performance. And if they say something lewd, quote unquote, will they be arrested? So this is where we're currently sitting is that everything's a bit too vague and it's too brutal. And it falls into a very, very, very, very long history that begins in the 1860s in San Francisco, where we saw crossdressers being arrested in the streets of San Francisco and in New York, where anything that wasn't normative gender, the police had the right to

snatch you up and throw you in prison. And this is where we currently sit with this. - Ohio, absolutely during the 1950s had a law on the books of no cross dressing, you know, where it was illegal. - Yeah. It feels like the vagueness is the point. And when I read up on this,

it seems as if, one, they're conflating drag performers with trans people. And then, two, they're just giving themselves credence to police gender presentation. What they really get out of these bills is that any police officer can go up to anybody and say, under this bill, oh, you're not presenting your gender in the right way. I can arrest you. And so that's what they want to do. And the thing about the policing of gender is that it never stops. And eventually...

they can police everybody's body. If this is okay now, eventually they can tell cisgendered people, well, your skirt's not long enough or your hair is too long or why is a man wearing these earrings? This is a thing. I feel like a lot of folks in Tennessee or across the country might say, well, it only affects trans people. It only affects drag queens. I don't look like that.

But you have to understand, like, it doesn't stop once it starts. And if they can police those folks' gender, they can police your gender too. And who wants it? Who the hell wants that? And to me, that's what's...

particularly startling about this moment and this law in Tennessee being part of it. And of course, this law exists in a broader matrix of anti-LGBT, but particularly anti-trans legislation across the country. Ohio, they're trying again with a new slate of anti-trans bills. But the thing is,

with the targeting drag queens, I feel like, and I'm saying this as a cisgender gay man who does not perform drag. Often, I think when we think of the framework of like, oh, this is a culture war, that. I think in the past, and I've certainly said that, don't give attention. They just want attention. These Republican fascists, they're just trying to come up with fodder for the Fox News segment or get more attention on Twitter. This isn't actually actionable, whatever.

You know what I mean? They're just bullying for attention, essentially. It's not going to impact people's lives on the street, but now it is. And I just think, and that to me is a very scary tipping point because I think understandably as a compassionate observer and citizen, I feel like part of what we're always having to do on the internet is sift information.

Where should I spend my time, attention, energy? Is this something I need to get fired up about now? Or would my getting fired up actually just make things worse? And yikes, it's just bad. I'm not going to ignore this. Yeah, and it's going to affect everybody. We saw just a few weeks ago, Florida came really close to 9%.

not just having trans girls prove their periods or not, but having all girls in school prove if they have periods or not to play sports on the girls' teams. This is the thing. It never stops where it starts. And when you open this door...

they walk through it and it touches all of us. It's not just like attention getting stunts for press conferences anymore. Exactly. Yes. And what we're seeing here is at its core an expansion of the police state. So that may be more helpful as you're kind of drowning in the, how are they doing drag? What are they doing? What we're seeing here is that legislators in Tennessee are saying, hey, police officers, hey, private citizens, you can call 911 when you think something's

someone's breaking a law and we want you to embody these policies and project them and deploy them and choose who gets to be arrested or potentially get arrested or be investigated. And it's allowing the police state to begin to, you know, go to certain festivals, go to weddings. And that's when we see the police show up, things don't go really well for queer people, queer people of color, et cetera. So, you know,

what this law is going to do, like all laws, whether it's around, you know, abortion access, housing, et cetera, when you start dealing with lower income folks, they're going to be overly criminalized. Black people are going to be overly criminalized and then rich white people are not. So what we're seeing here is that the police apparatus of Tennessee is about to become more powerful when they were already bending towards, you know, not helping queer people of color at all. And it's just going to get a lot worse. And what we have to also talk about is we're

creating laws around people's professions. Drag queens are low-income workers that we are, that have been going through a hard time these past few years. They have not been making, so you're at a drag club like every week. Like these girls have been going through it and they're finally able to emerge. And what we're seeing the right do is to attack people

These workers, like these are workers. These are artists. These are people trying to survive. And it's just so wild. And what we're seeing is just this kind of obsession with making gender a binary when we know it's not real. And we know people play on both sides. Even the governor of Tennessee, Bill Lee, when he was 18, we now have footage of him being in drag. Which is often true for these good old boy, former frat boys. They were always like either dressing in blackface or in drag. And he says, no, it's different. No, it's different. It's not different.

Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing. And that's where we see this is all bullshit. Is that the governor looked at his photo at a press conference on Monday and said, don't conflate what I did there with what these kids are dealing with. And it's like, girl, I saw the dress. I saw the makeup. I saw the jewelry. There's also something, I'm going to try to be very nuanced here. Here we go. Buckle down. There's something about the fact that without substantive systemic transformation, visibility is so dangerous. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Usually, for a long time, the only people who would be seeing it were people who were in community. And now, I mean, it's on television. And even if you don't watch RuPaul's Drag Race, I think you have some broader sense of drag now as the average, let's say, American consumer than you did then.

15 years ago. And the ways in which, you know, things that have been going on forever, drag brunches, children's story hours with drag queens, drag queens performing at a community event and all that kind of stuff, which, you know, the three of us know as queer people, like, duh, it's not, it's wild. And we understand the context of

Because we have not changed and made our country more equitable in terms of gender the increased visibility of drag queens Unfortunately and and drag performers drag kings is now making them a target, you know Because it's like these people who aren't going to be at the drag show on Thursday night. Oh, yeah get you know what and then what I see not happening is

is the companies and corporations who profit off of shows like Drag Race, why aren't they speaking out more? Why aren't they saying, we're going to boycott Tennessee till you fix this? Why aren't they saying, you can't even watch Drag Race till you fix this? And it's like- Viacom, Paramount, they should be in the streets. Exactly. Blue Ball's keeping the lights on over there. Yeah, there are corporate interests that profit

Off the bodies and labor of trans people, of drag queens. And they are surprisingly silent as this is going down. I'll tell you that. We need solidarity. And it just really frustrates me to see that the solidarity isn't happening, in my opinion. To see TERFs.

Like, we're all in this together, y'all. Like, we really are. And I just think there are a lot of people who think by clinging to white supremacy, they're going to find their life raft. No, they're going to put holes in your life raft, baby. You know, like, abandoning trans people to appear either because you're doing it because of respectability or you just wake up hating trans people. I don't know what terms are on, to be honest. Right.

But I do know that that life raft is not going to save you. And you are going to be struggling in the water too, right? Also remember, taxpayers, this is all about how your tax dollars are spent. What do you want your tax dollars spent on? Policing drag shows or feeding people, housing people, making sure your water is clean, cleaning up fucking train derailments. Like it's such a, just a misprioritization. And there are dollars at play here as well. Also just like,

Like, man, I'm sorry. I know we got to wrap. But also, fuck you. Life is really hard. So fuck these people. Not just assailing gender performance, assailing joy. We deserve this. Given everything this fucking country tries to take away from queer people in every single... How fucking...

fucking dare you take away something that we have made for us by us. This is our joy. And if you can't understand that, that is your failing. It makes me so angry. Aside from just the policing, aside from trying to put a chilling effect on gender performance, this also makes us happy. And we deserve to laugh. We deserve to scream and throw dollar bills and make it rain at our girls. And if it's not for you, it's not for you. And that's your problem.

Yeah. Period. Yeah. All right. Well, we're going to take a quick break, but stay tuned. We'll be right back with dupes. You know, reality is a dupe. My purse may be a dupe. Who knows? You'll find out. Gender freedom dupe. Gender freedom dupe. Rights dupe. Equality dupe. I prefer dupe. That's the French dupe. America dupe. All right. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

Okay, we are back and we are going to switch gears to a topic I'm thinking of as dupes for millennials. And you know we're using the millennial framework because we're going to kick it off with a clip from the Devil Wears Prada. However, that blue represents millions of dollars and countless jobs. And it's sort of comical how you think that you've made a choice that exempts you from the fashion industry when in fact...

You're wearing a sweater that was selected for you by the people in this room from a pile of stuff. That's so good. In that moment, a nation learned how to pronounce the word cerulean. In that moment. 100%. But so, of course, that famous clip from a Devil Wears Prada, you know, did...

what for a long time has been how a lot of us in the United States at least understand how the fashion industry works. A select group of gatekeepers, Anna Wintour, of course, being one of the more iconic of them, set the trends, set the tones for the fancy fashion runways. And eventually the theory is that there's a trickle down effect to those of us who buy from

I don't know, places like Zara or Walmart or TJ Maxx or thrift or whatever. Right. And, and that's faint, fancy hope couture cerulean gown might make its way to you as a cardigan. Um, the idea that it moves from prestige and wealth to you boring plebeians down there, you know, shopper person is what they're trying to say. But yeah, and I'm so excited because Zach has been obsessing about something that I definitely learned from Tik TOK. Right. And so the,

People walking around calling things dupes, dupes, this, dupes, that. You know, it'd be like a dupe for a makeup product, a dupe for a hair, you know? And I just initially thought dupes were just kind of a TikTok joke, which is how I try to initially treat strange things that come to me via the internet.

But according to a recent BuzzFeed News article on internet culture by writer Steffi Kao, that's C-A-O. She writes,

And she also notes that the appeal of product dupes, which is basically finding a substitute for a more expensive version of an item, is an opportunity to game the system. You get the look for less, and you're able to spend your wealth across more products, right? So instead of saving up for that one very expensive designer purse, right, as I feel like was very emblematic of the early 2000s, now you can...

you get some dupes and you can get five different purses from five different brands. So let's get into the dupe of it all.

First of all, my first question to both of you. So, you know, this writer notes that this trend is certainly being driven by Gen Z, by young people. Are you seeing dupes in real life, dupes on the street? I mean, I see it, but I also want to be like, okay, girl, dupes have been here forever. I remember my mother back in the day buying knockoff Louis bags and knockoff coach bags. I'm like, this is a thing that happens.

And I read an article on dupes in the Atlantic by Amanda Mull, who I love. She covers retail, commerce, business, consumption. And she said the difference between the knockoffs that us and our parents were doing and the dupes that Gen Z is doing is…

The Gen Zers take pride in the dupe. They go to TikTok to show off the dupe. They're like, look what I did. I saved all this money. That's different than how it worked 20 years ago when you wanted no one to know that you had the dupe. It was like, tell no one. Exactly. My mom was a flight attendant for years and years. And I remember as a kid, yeah, particularly the international flight attendants that were going to places like Korea. Yeah.

Or Brazil maybe would pride themselves on being able to take some of their time off and go get – we called them knockoffs, right? We called them knockoffs, and they would come back and bring the fake Louis Vuitton purses or whatever for their friends. So yeah, so is that the big shift? Are you noticing that, Zach, that it's like a point of pride?

Yes, 100%. So I, if you know me, I, if you know me personally, like I've always been a girl that like I grew up reading Vogue. I wanted to be a fashion girly. I wanted luxury. I saved my coins and got a Prada wallet. Like I did the thing. And I remember as a kid,

going to New York, going to Atlanta and seeing knockoffs for the first time and being like, should I, shouldn't I? But if someone asked me, I'd have to lie. And I like suck at lying. And it was just this big, like moral dilemma all the time. So I was a person that just believed in the hype of luxury.

And as I've gotten older and TikTok has not blown up, I now get on every day and I'm filled with DHgate content. So if you're not familiar with DHgate, that is now the top girly in the world. So just to kind of differentiate a bunch of different- DHgate. DHgate. So this is a website. So it's a website and app, really. You know you're talking to millennials when they're like us.

I said, who is that? Where is she from? I thought it was a person. I thought it was a person. Well, that's a cute name. DH. DH Gate is a China-based company that can get you the dupe of anything, anything, anything, anything. So what I've seen, I guess the big overview is what I've seen is that there was a generation of millennials that were obsessed with getting the MacBook, getting the AirPods, whatever, getting the real one, saving up. And then lately, and through that process, we saw fast fashion emerge. So Zara. Yeah.

H&M. Those places do knockoff runway looks. They're the actual knockoff. So they're the version, but they're not going to have the label in them that says it's Prada, but it's going to look like Prada. But what has happened lately through the powers of DHgate, which is very, it's not the same as Sheen. Sheen is another knockoff like Zara. I know Sheen is the ghetto. Sheen is the ghetto. That's the one thing I know about Sheen. That's the one thing I know. But what we are seeing is you can get a dupe of anything.

In DHgate, you should go on and try this out. You can do DHgate dupe of AirPod Maxes, which are $600...

They will send you for $50 a dupe of it. You can do Prada jackets, whatever. But now dupes have become blenders. They've become blow dryers. They've become technology. So it's not even necessary luxury. Not even necessary luxury. Blenders to me feels very different from designer purses. This is what I find interesting though. So like when I hear these conversations about dupes, I'm like, oh, is it hurting these companies? Is it hurting Coach? Is it hurting Prada? Right.

From all we can tell, it helps these big brands because it increases buzz and awareness. And then in this piece from The Atlantic written by Amanda Mull, she points out that some brands even sell and market their own dupes. Uggs, Ugg, the boots, they have a dupe line. They make a cheaper version of Uggs with a different name and tell you all about it. This is wild. And this kind of gets me to a thing that I've been thinking about a lot in dupe culture. Like,

Gen Z or dupe fans will say, look, I've beat the system. I've found this workaround to capitalism. I don't think so. It's still conspicuous consumption. And it's still consumption, right? And so my question with how we buy and what we buy, it's like...

Is the goal to find cheaper versions of all this stuff or should the goal just to be to buy and consume less stuff? Yeah. That's what I want. And the consumption part is the kind of like, oh no part because what I see on TikTok every day with the DHgate girls is a

total dismissal of saving the environment. You know, due to fast fashion, we have seen, I think I saw a stat recently, we don't know where it comes from. How young the folks making it are. Exactly. Very illegal labor being used to produce them. But when you get past all these labor practices, climate practices, this is just about having more...

of enough of everything, having it all constantly, having it to your door within a day. And it just is kind of like, why are we spiraling towards this moment of like, I want to eat and consume everything when the planet is literally on fire? And I just don't, it feels like for me, Duke culture is this interesting thing that has emerged out of Gen Z that was supposed to be the most socially conscious group of people in the world that care, that are supposed to save the world, which I think it's unfair to put that on them. But this has become an obsession with them online where it is actually,

kind of detrimental to the environment. Yeah, and it's like dupe culture offers this way to like

life hack consumption, but I want us to think about how to just curb our consumption just to consume less. And what I think about a lot when I spend my money, it's like, all right, do I want to spend my money on things or on experiences? I want to spend my money on experiences. That's a very millennial thing for you to say. To go back to that BuzzFeed News article, like if it's noting factors like a new wave of cash poor teenagers, then it's

I don't know. Things are more like life is more expensive. These young people are paying more rent than we ever did at their age. And yet, you know, I mean, think about Beyonce. Everything is more expensive than it used to be. So I don't know. To a certain extent, I guess I get certainly the allure of just paying less to maintain. It's kind of like keeping your head above water in the perception of where you think you should be.

As opposed to, it feels, actually, dupe culture actually feels less, it feels less like aspirational culture and more like kind of maintaining comfort. Trying to keep up. I don't know. Well, there's a pressure of performance as well. So like if you're someone who buys into the dupe lifestyle and you're on social media, there is a certain pressure to perform and look good.

at a certain level of wealth in your TikToks, in your Instagram. If you rely on influencing to make money, you have to portray and assume a certain level of like performative wealth. So there is a pressure. And I think like it's real, like some people do make their money in this world and they have to look a certain way. I get that. And I would argue, you know, obviously TikTok algorithms are very subjective to who you are and what you view and what you consume. But

But what I'm seeing emerge, and this dupe conversation here on Vibe Check is going to be ongoing because we're doing our own research and looking and keeping this going. Research. He said doing the research. So buying more dupes, buying more dupes. Listen, I would tell the girls, I have been buying dupes of things that I already own to see the differences in them. And they are like, you can't tell. It is really, really weird. It's a very weird thing. But what I want to get at with that is that idea of perception. Who do you think is...

could and should have a real one and who do you think does have a fake one which we've always seen steeped in anti-blackness classism all these things when i was growing up you would clock a girl you see a girl with a mom with a louis vuitton you think that's fake there's no way she could have it when you would never say that about the white girl so what is happening with these dupes and what i think is exciting about dupe culture when you take out all the environmental impact which is awful

is a public critique of the obvious classism that is embodied in clothing and embodied in how we signal to each other. And that young people on TikTok are challenging that by saying, you know what? This is a fake. All of us can have it. We can all have it. Wait, I just had a revelation. What is it? What is it? Years ago, I was at work, um,

And BuzzFeed News. And I, while on leave, I was in France. I got to take a little trip to Monaco. And I went to the Armani store. It was very intimidating. I went to the Armani store with a friend and I bought a fall jacket, a beautiful like camel hair. Oh, I lost it a few years ago. It was a beautiful jacket. And it was, look, expensive. You know what I mean? But it was like a treat for my summer, this whole like, you know, go for it, do the thing thing.

I was at work at BuzzFeed News one morning getting coffee. I'm like just getting my day started. And a young coworker that I didn't know very well, he seemed nice, came up and was like, oh, that jacket's so cool. Did you get that at Zara or H&M? Was he just reading me? Yes, he was reading you. He was reading you. Did he hit me with a read that took me like five years to clock? Oh my God. You got to beware though, because like at the same time we see this rise of

and buying this dupe and buying that dupe. We also see young people and people our age too getting sucked into getting everything through like pay-as-you-go credit. What are those services called? Yeah. Klarna and this one and that one. You're absolutely right. These new services are so overburdened. Some of them are already collapsing under their own weight. Yeah.

We have an epidemic not just of dupe culture, but of debt culture. Yeah. And I worry about that for folks my age and younger because we face this pressure to perform this wealth, and we think we're life hacking it because of a dupe, but a dupe can still end up with a debt. Yes. That's tea. Maybe I'm in a different place because I just signed a mortgage. Girl. I've got a roof to worry about. What?

Let's go to break. Let's go to break. This was fun. This was really good conversation. I just enjoy saying dupe after dupe. That's the thing. People walk around and call the dupe out. Be like, those are dupe lemon leggings. That's a dupe Lexus over there. Whatever. It's just fun. I saw someone on TikTok do like generational wealth dupe. Anyway, we're going to take a quick

Don't go anywhere. Before we go to the break, listeners, tell us your dupe stories. What are your dupe life hacks? I'm curious. I want to know. I also want to make sure everyone caught my wordplay just now. I said dupe fiasco. That was fun. Oh, God. Dupe fiasco. Dupe fiasco. That's a throwback. There you go. There you go. All right. We'll be right back. All right.

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We're back. You're listening to Vibe Check. And as we always do each week, we're going to close the show out by sharing a few things that are helping us keep our vibes right. A few recommendations. We've got three for you. We're going to start with Saeed. Are they all going to be dupes? No, they won't. Yes, dupes. Do it. Dupes. Okay, so my...

My recommendation is both a song but also a habit of mine that does help me keep my vibe right. But I guess depending on the kind of person you are, it might send you into madness. So, you know, hey, grain of salt. My recommendation is the song Betray My Heart by D'Angelo. It's from –

Oh, yes. Excellent album, Black Messiah.

I love this song so much. The lyrics are beautiful, and it just has so many of the qualities that makes D'Angelo why he is like a once-in-a-generation talent. But the habit that I recommend is I love songs like this because they're great to play on repeat. Mm-hmm.

And this is why I said it can either help your vibe or send you into madness. I guess some people have a different relationship to this. I love these kinds of songs where you can listen to them on repeat for hours. Since Sam and I talked about SZA last week, Kill Bill from that album is actually a great example of that type of song. Where at the end, you just...

It loops well. I can't explain. I don't know what the technical phenomenon. Some songs do this well. Some songs don't. But I just love it. And I will listen to songs like Betray My Heart for an afternoon while I'm doing errands or while I'm at home checking emails and everything. And I don't... It's almost like...

I think I come to it as a poet. I like the way in which in the loop, the words change and it just feels like it kind of comes untethered a bit. And it literally just becomes a vibe because you've heard it so many times. It's like your brain changes the way it's processing the lyrics and the music. And I just find it with the right song, very peaceful. Now, of course, if you, I don't know, play the wrong song on repeat, I think that's used as a CIA torture method. Oh, it is.

It is used as a CIA torture method. So, you know, choose carefully, but that's my recommendation. That's so good.

I have Black Messiah on vinyl. And it's one of my favorite records to put on and just vibe. You put on Black Messiah, you light some incense, you're going to align some chakras, heal some hearts. It's very sad. It's very sad. And then if you are a person questioning if you are gay, you can go back to D'Angelo's Untitled music video and stress test that. Because baby, let me tell you, that made me gay. I was already gay, but I became

very gay when that man was naked for four minutes in the video. And so this is why I came back to falling in love with this song from a few years ago because over the weekend, my friend Arsalan and I ended up showing the untitled music video to my boyfriend Haas because Haas, of course, was in Australia. How did that come about? Because he was in Australia at the time. We were talking about like formative music videos.

videos and he hadn't seen it before and listen friends even if you saw it go see it again because it is shockingly potent like I was like surprised that it was still hitting me the way it did

It's so good. Get into them. So that's my recommendation. What about you? That was good. Zach, what's your recommendation? Well, I guess actually to build a bridge from that thinking of songs that you can play on repeat, I have a recommendation from Berlin, from the Berlinale, which is the film festival. So a movie that will be out this year that is very, very good. And it's a documentary. And it's something that Sam Sanders, you popped in my head immediately. And I thought Sam should host a screening of this. It is the new...

documentary called Love to Love You that is about Donna Summer who was made by her daughter. Her daughter made it and it is so good and such an intimate look at her journey being a black mother. She began her career as a black mother having a baby in Germany. She also has mixed children so hey mixed girls our representation again is here. But

It was amazing because I forgot that woman has hit after hit after hit. And she is the reason why house music really exists. Disco really exists. And when you watch the film, you then understand the magnitude of why Beyonce sampling her was such a big deal because she really is the foundation. But to the title song, Love to Love You was a bomb when it first came out. It only became good when they doubled it.

and released it on the radio. So originally it was three and a half minutes, then they made it seven minutes. They made it like seven minutes long. And then they began playing it. So literally playing it on repeat? Played on repeat, made it more successful because they would play it at midnight on all the radio stations because it's so sexual and it got people going. So that's how she blew up and then she became like a superhero. Donna Summer. And it's amazing. But it's just a really, really beautiful film. And I do, it's,

when you have a family create a documentary about a loved one that's an icon. But this one does a pretty good job of doing it. And there's a lot of never-before-seen stuff in there. It's just wonderful. And it will be out on HBO Max this year. And can I say, because you mentioned the Little Richer documentary. Yeah, Little Richer. I mean, obviously, we love black history. We love black people and music. So we are the target audience for this kind of stuff. Those are the documentaries I want, though.

I am, and Sam and I have ranted about this before, the trend of documentaries about things that happened three to eight months ago. Oh my God. There's no new knowledge. There's no new information. There's no new wisdom. I love-

that are going into the archives, going out there, talking to people, doing the hard, earning the trust of people's former colleagues and loved ones to really change our understanding of an icon or an iconic moment. That is the art of documentary, not this new shit. So anyway. Yeah, I agree. That's my get off my lawn moment. There we have it. Sam, bye. How are you feeling? Yes. So yesterday before I close on this house,

I went to go see Cocaine Bear. And it's my recommendation. That was a real... Isn't that movie like something like $28 million or something? It made $23, I think. Damn. It made a lot of money. It is an entirely, completely absurd movie. And just knowing it's called Cocaine Bear is all you need to know going into this film. Girl, they should have just called Bros Cocaine Bear and Universal would have made their claim back. My question is, is it... Also, I was shocked to discover Keri Russell's in it, which I love. Is it like an...

Like an absurd action movie? Or is it like a horror movie, kind of like Megan? It's an absurd, gory thriller. So the whole premise is cocaine falls out of the sky because a drug dealer screws up his drop.

A bear gets a hold of the cocaine. In the real life story, the bear takes the cocaine and dies in like 30 seconds. But in this movie telling, he goes on a rampage, wreaking havoc. And it's violent and gory, but also incredibly hilarious and absurd. And for me, it's part of this larger trend of absurdist films doing really well at the box office. You think about Megan. You think about Violent Night. You think about now this movie, Cocaine Bear. People want to see...

crazy absurd stuff and i like when a movie is in on its own joke yeah yeah this movie knows that it's called cocaine bear exactly i want more of that i think it's light and fun i am actually talking to the writer of the movie uh he's going to be on my show into it this thursday listen go go

go check that out. But I'm all about cocaine bear and absurd content that is just nonsensical. Go see Cocaine Bear. And Cocaine Bear the movie, not the guys you meet in P-Town. Cocaine Bear. Wow. Sorry, anyway. Wow. Well, okay.

That sounds fun. I'm into it. It's great. I get what you're saying because really Snakes on the Plains is what I was saying because I remember seeing that and it was like the kind of movie you go to because you know it's going to be an event and a memory and you go with a bunch of friends because you're going to so enjoy like laughing and screaming, you know, together. Yeah, it's these movies give you a reason to go to the movie theaters.

Because streaming it at home on your phone or iPad isn't going to be the same. You want to be immersed in the absurdity of it all. And also, it's nice to go to a movie and know exactly what you're going to get. When I walked in to see Megan, I knew what that movie was. When I go to see Cocaine Bear, I know what it is. I don't have to think too hard. It's just giving me kind of a base thrill of...

And I don't know. I take joy in that. I don't look down on that. It was fun. Do you think it's going to be one of those movies where there are like 15 sequels? Like it'll be like cocaine, cougar, cocaine. And then they'll want to go for like the African-American mark. So it'll be like cocaine, Black Panther. I don't know. What is that? I want to see...

Ketamine duck-billed platypus. Duck-billed platypus. Ketamine duck-billed platypus. Also, before I forget, speaking of recommendations, I recommended or talked about that article from Amanda Mull at The Atlantic on dupes. I want to give listeners the full name of the article so they can read it. Her piece is called TikTok Made Knockoffs Cool. At What Cost? It's by Amanda Mull in The Atlantic. Great piece.

Read that after you go see Cocaine Bear. I really do like Amanda Moles reporting on like... She's great. She's great. Listeners, tell us what you're listening to, what you're watching, what's keeping your vibe right. Share some recommendations with us. You can email us at any time at vibecheckatstitcher.com. Vibecheckatstitcher.com. You know we love to hear from you.

from you. Well, we're done. We're back. And that's the end. The show's over. We did it, Joe. We did it, girls. We did it. Well, thank you all for listening and tuning into this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend, tell a person you don't like, tell your neighbor, tell your grocery guy. I don't know who, but tell somebody.

Do we still have like grocery guys? Is that it? Anyway, thank you to our producers, Chantel Holder and this week, Anita Flores. Hi, Anita. Engineer Brendan Burns and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production.

Also, I just said it, but I'll say it again. We want to hear from you. Email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram at Sam Sanders, at The Ferocity, and at Zach Staff. If you tweet about the show, use the hashtag vibecheckpod.

Also, we're on the TikToks as well. Go see that too. Listeners, stay tuned for another episode of Vibe Check next week. In the meantime, go play some D'Angelo and go see Cocaine Bear. Maybe do both at once. What would it be like to watch Cocaine Bear on mute while playing D'Angelo? Weirdly serene? Yeah. Okay. All right. That's my challenge to you listeners. Make it happen. Till next time. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Stitcher.

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