Everything Has Led to This
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This week, we are going to be talking all about the 95th Academy Awards, the Oscars. We're going to give our predictions, talk about some of our favorites, maybe vent a little bit. And then later in the show, we're going to do a deep dive. We're going all in. I've played poker like once in my life, but I guess it's like we're throwing all our chips in.

Yeah, I like that.

I am now waking up super early because of European time. So I'm up at four in the morning, four or five in the morning. Because you were, I mean, what, Paris, Berlin, that's what, eight? Nine hours. Nine hours away, yeah. I already was an early riser, but now we're just like leaning in and being earlier, which like helps me have like even more productive days, which is great. But I'm good. But I feel like in my life, vibes are really off and just peep.

Every day, people seem really like- Who are you talking about? Short. No, just me. I was talking about this with someone else. It's just like we were talking about how I went to see Cocaine Bear. And leaving, I saw a road rage incident where a guy tried to run someone over because he was so mad. And even today at the gym, someone was making bacon at the gym, and all these women were complaining. It was just like everyone seems like really- Someone was making bacon at the gym? Yes. How does- Making bacon? Bacon?

So at my gym, there is a kitchen where they make smoothies and some bacon in it. In the microwave or is there an oven? I don't know, girl. I hope they were – wait, what? You think they were like doing it with a skillet? Brought their cast iron with them. And I love making bacon, but I live by myself. Like bacon, if you make it in the microwave, it's going to smell like bacon for like the rest of the day. Let me tell you, working out this morning, it was like a bacon bath.

workout. And it was really weird. Yeah, that's like a gym. All those other smells mingling with bacon is pretty gross. But let me tell you, people were already on the edge this morning about things since some of these people over the edge. They were yelling. Wait, really? About the bacon? Oh, people were not happy about the bacon, honey. But that just like

I felt like for a while people had a little more capacity for annoyance and that seems to have dwindled so, so, so, so, so much. So I don't know. Maybe it's the Pisces moon and I'm just feeling like really at my powers of empathy. So yeah, it's just been an interesting return. Yeah. My thing right now with all the vibes all the time

Even if I'm having a good day, I always tell myself, somebody or something somewhere is in retrograde. So let me just... There's always a retrograde. It is a mess, yeah. But Sam, how are you? I'm okay. The thing that I've been thinking about a lot, there are two stories that are happening at the same time that not enough people are putting together, in my opinion. So y'all see Ron DeSantis doing his Ron DeSantis thing every day, trying to gin up energy for his run for president. Yeah.

And all the prognosticators are saying he could beat Trump. He's on a roll. He's appealing to the base in the right way. He's getting attention. But the other story that could complicate all of the things for him and all of the other candidates for president is.

is that Fox News might literally shut down. They have been sued by Dominion, this company that makes voting machines. You'll recall after Donald Trump lost, Fox News spent weeks blaming Dominion for faulty voting machines that were cheating and rigging the election for Joe Biden.

Dominion is taking Fox News to court for defamation and other charges. And all the legal watchers say they're going to win and this might take Fox News out. And if that happens, the entire ecosystem of right-wing media that these politicians like DeSantis rely on, they'll be gone. And so we're about to be potentially tossed into even more chaos on the right as we enter the race for president for 24. And it is going to be

one surprising however it ends up but like I don't even think we know

how much things are going to veer off track with that conservative talk ecosystem. It could all fall apart. That's interesting too, because I do feel like probably post January 6th, 2021, where it felt like Republicans and people in that whole ecosystem were essentially being asked to choose, like, are you going to honor the letter of the law, which is that Trump is no longer president, or are you going to maintain this lie? I feel like, you know, that,

There was like a fault line that developed between a lot of Fox News people and a lot of independent far-right people. I guess what I'm trying to say is, hey, don't threaten me with a good time at the end of Fox News. I would probably throw a little party. I mean, you know, why not?

I don't know. I feel like this breakup of that ecosystem has been going on for a little while now. I mean, this would obviously be very dramatic, but I feel like they've been trying to develop, you know, their own channels and that kind of stuff. But if you're a contender for president...

you are constantly trying to do things that will get you attention on Fox News. If that goes away, where do you go? But listen, what you don't see waiting in the wings is CNN's turn to write. Oh, that part. So that is a very strategic move on their end to capture that audience if Fox falls. So you have like a Newsmax taking up the far right. CNN in their...

moderate move that they're doing right now. And then all of these bloggers like Charlie Kirk have become so powerful or Joe Rogan, all these people. So I have hope, girl, I would love nothing more to see this entire far right eco chamber fall apart and collapse on itself. But the devil, you know, the devil wakes up every day and goes to work and I get worried about him and Fox News. The devil is the hardest working person in media. Yes, truly. Anywho, Saeed, how are you feeling?

I feel like I'm getting over, I won't say a depressive episode, but maybe the blues, a melancholy. Yeah. I'm grateful. Spring is a couple of weeks away, officially. It is.

It better hurry up. Whether it feels like spring and looks like spring is a different question, but at least according to our calendar, it's on its way. I'm grateful to have kind of made it through winter mostly cool, you know? Like, I mean, we did an episode where we kind of talked about our tips and strategies for kind of enduring the cold, dark months, and I did it. I've

and making cookies using Zach's advice, you know, every week. Okay, okay. But I do think, you know, there are times when it just, your feelings catch up with you. And I just had a moment late last week where it was just, this is what the blues looks like for me. It's, you move from the fogginess and like maybe you're cranky, whatever, to the point that you get to a morning where you're like, all right, this is the point where you get up.

And you cross the room and you go make some coffee.

Okay, this is the moment where you get up and you pick up your phone and answer that email. You know, like where it becomes so difficult that it goes from like self-narrating to me. It's like almost like out loud, verbally coaching like, Saeed, you need to walk the dog. Get up. Caesar's right there. And it's just really hard. And I did what I, you know, needed to do. Caesar was able to go outside and all that kind of stuff. But I had to kind of like cancel my meetings and all that kind of stuff for a whole day and just –

sit in it, which is really uncomfortable. I think for me, in addition to my feelings when I'm struggling, my feelings about my feelings are what's really difficult. I often feel really disappointed in myself that I'm not...

Being as productive or even upbeat as I'm supposed to. Something I used to really whip myself about is that my name, Saeed, means happy. It means happy and fortunate. And I've had to kind of work through this, but I used to feel like, oh, if I don't feel happy, then I'm literally not being true to myself.

which is not a very... That's a heavy burden. Yeah, that's not a fair way to, you know? So I don't know. I just, I'm grateful I'm here. I'm excited to talk to y'all and yell about Hollywood. But yeah, it feels like a little bit like when you like finally make it back to shore and like you can talk, but your breath is still a little... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm curious when you have a day where you're just like, I don't want to go walk the dog, get out of bed. I have those days too. What is the one thing that you do that will get you started? Is there one reliable little life hack you have?

Um,

I mean, the first thing I do for sure is that I try to break like essential, not essential. I'm like, okay, so what are some things we can jettison? Really? You know, it's like the lifeboat's going down. Can we throw this random box of junk off and make it a little lighter? So yeah, I try to see like, what are the things that I have to do today? People are counting on me. It's really important. And then what are the things that can wait a couple of days? And I think just kind of, and you'll find usually if you're fortunate, there aren't that many things that like,

have to be done that day. Most of the people that I love, work with, collaborate with, y'all included, are flexible, reasonable people. So yeah, I think that's it. It's like kind of being like, okay, can I narrow the list of the have-tos? And can I maybe summon my strength, chug some coffee really quickly, get it done, and then go into my like, you know, ugh mode? Yeah. That's so good. I mean, Oprah says all the time, time is the most valuable thing we can give ourselves. And

And sometimes in those moments where you're feeling like in a rut and you can't, that you should be moving around, being productive, just sit still and listen to what your body's telling you is sometimes the best anecdote. There's so much pressure to only feel the right emotions, but we're allowed to feel all emotions and we're supposed to feel all emotions. There are actually seasons of life where sadness is kind of supposed to be there. Not fussing at myself for feeling away, but asking myself, well, what are these feelings trying to tell me?

So before we get into this episode, we want to thank all of you who have sent us fan mail and reached out to us on social media. Fun fact, when y'all send mail in, sometimes we don't respond, but we do share it in our group chat. We do talk about it. Zach was in the screen grab of the emails. Zach would be like, did you see this? I'm like, yeah, girl, I love it. I was like, girl, you got a congratulation on your house. So we do, we talk about it. And we think about you a lot. So keep it coming at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And with that, I think it's time for us to get into these Oscars, right? Let's do it.

Y'all may or may not know, but Oscar week, work-wise for me, is my Super Bowl week. Y'all know I got two jobs, and all of my content this week is Oscars. We're doing Oscars this episode. Into It, my other show for Vulture, is going to twice a week this week, and we've got two Oscar episodes.

And then after the Oscars, I'll be taping Pivot with Kara Swisher to talk about the Oscars. I love this. I never get tired of it. I'm glad you do because I'm like, you know. I love it. I think I only have like one podcast about the Oscars in me, to be honest. Right?

And it's this one. Was that basically four? Four different episodes? Yeah. Four. Yeah. There's one in feeds right now from Intuit. We look at the complicated history between the Oscars and the blockbuster. Usually the Oscars don't give best picture to a blockbuster. We talk about why and how it came to be. That's in the other feed. But today, I want to hear my sisters give me their Oscar predictions. Okay.

This is a pretty good year for Oscar, in my opinion. You know, the ceremony is this Sunday, and there's so much to talk about besides the nominees. There is the aftermath of the slap, which happened last year. There are lingering questions about whether people still want to watch award shows like the Oscars and what kind of ratings would be needed to justify or constitute quote-unquote success.

But for me, the biggest story of this year's Oscars is that it feels like it's a year in which the energy is with the women and not the men. When I think of this year's Oscars, all I think about is everything, everywhere, all at once, and tar. And the only folks I think about are Michelle Yeoh and Cate Blanchett. And I like it. I remember when I was a kid...

It felt like only the men mattered and the women were afterthoughts. Right. And this year, it feels like it's hopefully switched. Who knows? There's still patriarchy, but it feels very good to know that the biggest juggernauts going into the Oscars this Sunday are two women. I'm here for it. I mean, speaking of women, even Rihanna is going to be at the Oscars this year singing that godforsaken funeral song to Black Panther. Well, she got two babies now, so I'm like, it's a lullaby.

But them all don't think that's exactly what you're going to do. Anyhoo, yeah. I want us to share predictions for some of the big categories at the Oscars this Sunday. But first, I want us just to talk about our top-line thoughts about the ceremony as we go into it. My top-line thought for the Oscars this year is maybe in some ways they got it right. Nominating everything everywhere all at once.

nominating Cate Blanchett. Hell, even giving Top Gun Mavericks some love. It's good to honor blockbusters on occasion. It's good for the industry. I think the Oscars, more than some other years, are getting it right. There are still some bad parts of this show and nominations, but overall, I'm like, okay, it's all right. What are y'all's top-line thoughts of this year's Oscars?

I'm similar. I've been surprised, which I'm never surprised with the Oscars. And I'm feeling a bit hopeful. I'm like, okay, our system's changing a bit. We have one of the most diverse Oscars ever in regards to physical representation of who's being nominated. A lot of breakout Asian leads. And then even genre. We have blockbusters returning. Avatar, Top Gun, all these big movies that really have helped reopen movie theaters.

And then you also have these small films really breaking through, like everything, everywhere, all at once. And H24 is just complete Harvey Weinstein, Scott Rudin vacation. The reappearing of that big Oscars buzzy campaign that H24 has done has been really interesting. So it's great, but there have been a lot of misses. So it's not perfect, but I'm thinking we're on a new track. This is a new Oscars, so I'm into it. I think it's going to be really boring this year, which means sometimes boring is good. I don't need another slap. The bar is so high.

If we're comparing this year's ceremony to the slap, you ain't never going to get that level

that level of it. It's not going to happen. I guess I would say when it comes to entertainment, the bar is really high for spectacle. I mean, I hope. Let's not try to outdo that every year. Who knows where that goes? But I would say, I would say in other ways the bar is very low. No women are nominated for Best Director, even though a film like Women Talking is nominated for Best Picture, and I often think there's...

usually a parallel between the two. Woman King, I think it's pretty shocking that Viola Davis wasn't nominated for Best Actress and that Gina Prince-Blythewood, again, wasn't nominated for Best Director. And I love, she does really great work. She's one of, I think, the best. Behind the Lights is still one of my favorites. Yeah, she's been a part of so many great films. And then the other thing is, I guess what I would say about the Oscars is

They have an opportunity to make a lot of great decisions this Sunday. They have an opportunity to really illuminate the cinematic canon, which is to say when we look back 20, 30, 50 years from now and we're like, what was going on that year? There's an opportunity for a lot of important work to be honored in the canon. And we go back and we're like, oh, yeah, that does feel like an accurate touchstone.

But that's just the nominees. And I just think for a lot of these award ceremonies that we've seen in the last few years, this is not just the Oscars, the Emmys, the Golden Glows. It has become, I think, fairly commonplace to see a pretty diverse set of nominees. But then when all the winners are announced, ugh.

Well, even just a few weeks ago at the BAFTAs when Ariana DeBose had her Angela Bassett did the thing moment and then the BAFTAs end, no black person won anything. All the winners were white. It's like, okay, what y'all doing? And that's like the fear to speak to what Syed's saying is, you know, oh my God, we have all this kind of celebration which is driving eyeballs to Sunday. But when push comes to shove, will we be winning? You know, history says people like us don't win when it happens. So,

This is the story of these award shows as they have seen their ratings decline precipitously over the last 15 years or so. The more their ratings decline, the more they rely on black and brown people to get eyeballs on those shows. Yeah. So I don't want to be too cynical, but yeah, I think you're right. That dynamic where it's like, for example, the television award ceremonies have been holding on to Abbott Elementary for dear life.

life. They need it. Rightfully so, because, you know, Quinta and Miss Shirley Ralph and the rest of the cast and all that team, all their things, but also it's like they need that because if you look at the rest of the television landscape, it's like pretty white stuff. Anywho, let's get to predictions. The first prediction I want to hear from y'all is about Best Picture. There are 10 nominees this year for Best Picture at the Oscars, and they are All Quiet on the Western Front,

Avatar, The Way of Water, The Banshees of Inishere, and I said it right. Bam, bam. Look at that. Elvis, Everything Everywhere All at Once, The Fablemans, Tar,

Top Gun Maverick, Triangle of Sadness, and Women Talking. That is a lot of movies. I don't need 10 movies up for Best Picture. That's a lot of movies. It ain't 10 movies that good. It ain't 10 movies that good. And I'm sorry, and I just feel like, I mean, Top Gun was a really popular movie, so I guess I'm just being a hater, but like, Avatar is not to be deserved to be nominated for Best Picture. I think this is the Oscars trying to fix a historic...

trend of theirs in which they a lot of years only nominate movies for best picture that no actual people actually saw and so this is their way to compensate but they could have picked a better blockbuster let me tell you what I did not like I would have rather seen the menu on there I would have rather seen Minions the Minions maybe that was comedic gold they should switch out the menu for Triangle of Sadness Triangle of Sadness is a shock I

which I enjoyed that so much. But I was like, huh, that over the menu. Interesting choice there. But you know, I just have to do the thing where I say that Saeed's right and I was wrong about something. And this is where I say it. You know, emotionally, I want Tar to win because I love that movie. When I was in Berlin, I got to see Cate Blanchett in person. We sat next to each other. But I do think this is the everything, everywhere, all at once year. And they deserve it. The movie has really

re-imagine so much. My fear, though, is that TAR could win, and that's the Oscars being Oscars so white. It's just not a good moment if they win for me. Okay. What about you, Saeed? Who do you want to win and who do you think should win? I want everything everywhere all at once to win. And obviously, we're going to have a whole conversation about that in a moment. I also feel it's done very well in the different guild awards that have been kind of leading up. But my concern actually is not TAR.

I'm worried that it's going to be all quiet on the Western front. Who watched that movie? No one. I didn't even read the book in high school, motherfucker. I just think we need to... Look, I'm not going to be watching the Oscars because, as we've mentioned, my time is valuable and I'm trying to get my life together. But also because I'll be on a plane. I'll be on my way back from Seattle. I just want us to prepare ourselves for the possibility. Yeah.

that it is all quiet on the Western Front. It's a cinematic triumph. You know, directing, cinematography, it's really impressive. We are currently dealing with a war. It's really timely. It's a way for them to point to Ukraine. So, yeah, I think it could be kind of like the sleeper. But I would be shook. I would be shook. Yeah. I want everything to win, and I think it will win because I think A24 and the team behind that movie have had the best Oscars campaign that I've seen in 20 years.

It's truly remarkable the way that entire team has pushed this movie for so long. Y'all remember, this movie came out like a year ago. Right. And my worry when it came out was that there wouldn't be enough sustained buzz to push it to the Oscars. Yeah. But they did it. Michelle and her crew have been out there. They are everywhere all at once. All at once.

For that reason alone, I think it's actually the quality of the movie matters for like 40%. The quality of the campaign matters for 60. And no one has out-campaigned that movie this year. Yeah. And I think because I remember us talking about this and you both were like, this is the issue, Saeed. It came out in March of last year. That's a long, long way.

And I would say not only have A24 and the people who kind of do all their Oscar campaigning been able to kind of keep it relevant. I feel like there's been a sense of momentum. It's been building, you know, and I think it's both savvy choices and then also thematic resonance, which I think we're going to talk about that. They've been good at kind of highlighting the ways the film kind of connects to what's going on. Oh, yeah. Well, even the catchphrase they use in all of the campaigning materials and billboards and ads is,

The quote they use is, everything has led to this. That's powerful. That's powerful. That's a great copy. And it's saying, this is actually about more than just this movie. It's about Michelle Yeoh and her entire body of work. It is about the movement to protect Asian lives. It is about...

All these different kind of things that you can think about when you think about this movie. So A24 did the damn thing. Yeah. But I'll just say everything you just said, Sam, is exactly why I'm worried that it won't win. I would say to think of another parallel, the way in which people hold Beyonce's gravitas, momentum, she checks all the boxes, and then you see people have like a...

I don't know. It's almost like an antithetical response to that. Because there's such a groundswell. To me, I think it's a very white thing. It's a very like, don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me da-da-da-da. So anyway. Especially for people of color. They're like, let me put you in your place. You've soared too high. Let me bring you down. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's get some more predictions. I want to hear y'all's take on actress in a leading role. The nominees are Cate Blanchett for Tar, Anastasia,

Anna DeArmas for blonde. Oh my God, I forgot about that. Andrea Risborough for to Leslie, Michelle Williams for the Fablemans, and Michelle Yeoh for everything, everywhere, all at once. Who do you want to win and who do you think will win? Go. Okay, Cate Blanchett, obviously. I think they may give it to her because they're going to give everything else to everything, everywhere, all at once. And this is going to be the thing they give to TAR because Cate Blanchett is playing a version of a double...

a diabolical man who's been acting badly. The Oscars have been looking for their moment to show that they are on the other side of that wine scene with all these other people. And if they may put it all inside of Cate Blanchett. I want Michelle Yeoh to win, though. It's so ironic, though. The whole energy around Cate Blanchett in this movie, everyone's like, yeah, this is one of the worst villains to ever exist on screen. I love her. I want to be her. And it's so weird. The therapy, the healing that needs to be undergone in relation to people's

relationship to that character. I, of course, I would love to see Michelle win. I mean, I just rewatched Everything Everywhere this morning again, and so all of my feelings are so potent for her performance. I just think it's incredible what she accomplishes, particularly like looking at the screenplay and then watching what she does. You know what I mean? That it's just transformative. I think Cate Blanchett's going to win.

Because in the way people have spoken about both of the films, Tar and Everything Everywhere, Everything Everywhere, people talk about the film. They talk about the whole experience. With Tar, it's only about Cate Blanchett. No shade to the score, to the editing, to the da-da-da-da.

I only hear people talk about Cate Blanchett's performance, and I think that's pretty favorable. Yeah. I will say, I went last night to rewatch everything in the movie theater and loved it. For me, it is the best picture of the year. Yeah.

But I don't think the role given to Michelle Yeoh is as much of a showcase for Oscar-level acting as TAR was for Cate Blanchett. You think of that opening scene in TAR where it's like a fake New Yorkers idea festival, and it's just –

eight minutes of Cate Blanchett earning her Oscar. The moments when I do see Michelle Yeoh go to like, I'm getting my Oscar mode in that movie, it's for 45 seconds, then it's back to the action scenes. Because of the nature of the film. Exactly. Exactly. Torn between. Yes, whereas Tarr lets Cate do a master class in acting

the entire film. And to build on that point, when I was at the Berlinale, Cate Blanchett was the star of the week, which is one of the most exciting international film festivals outside of Cannes. And she was giving daily talks with the Berlin Symphony about craft

and creating soundtrack to this and learning to conduct. So she's been doing a tour in front of all the powers that be of like, this is what it means to be an actor and this is what it requires, which is not fair to Michelle Yeoh, who is a martial artist and like so many other things. It did so much. People forget Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. She's been doing this. So she did it, but it's,

It's how we're talking about it and how Kate has become like, she's like, I'm the auteur. Look at all these amazing things. And I think it's also, yeah, I mean, it's kind of people's relationship to comfort and storytelling. And I think it's like, Tar gives you the kind of story and the kind of actor presentation that I think for a lot of people, especially people of older generations, it's more accessible. I think what Michelle Yeoh's doing is actually much more complicated because she's having to give us a sense of consistency

while we're literally being pulled between all of this. And so like maintaining the thread for these different plot lines seems even more difficult than maybe just sitting in one moment, you know? And like, it's funny because like, I think Kate's performance is more of a masterclass, but Michelle's performance is hitting more emotional notes.

Everything everywhere is just as funny as it is touching. And there are moments where you go from crying to laughing within five seconds. And Michelle shines in all those peaks and valleys of emotion. So that is a different kind of masterwork. Whereas like Kate is just this rumination on a theme.

So brilliantly executed for the entire film. Yeah, but I guess I would say, I think if Cade or Michelle, I certainly wouldn't think it would be, I wouldn't be like, this is an upset. I mean, they're both incredible performers. Now let's lean in here. Michelle Williams, I love you. This ain't your night.

Andrew Riceboro, I don't even know you. I don't even know you, Andrea. And I know it's not your night. And listen, Ana de Armas, you know what? She should be ashamed. I loved you in Knives Out, my queen, my little murder mystery queen, but I swear to God. Yeah, she better put the knives away. I love a scam. This scam would go too far if she won. I'm like, okay, girl, it was cute that you got here. Bravo. But

move on. Let's keep it moving. We've got more movies. Before we wrap this segment, here are the nominees for Actress in a Supporting Role. Stephanie Hsu, Everything Everywhere All at Once. Jamie Lee Curtis in Everything Everywhere All at Once. Carrie Condon, who is she? In The Banshees of Innocence.

Hong Chao in The Whale and Angela Bassett in Black Panther Wakanda Forever. Who should win? Who will win? It should be Angela Bassett. I believe it will be Angela Bassett. Yes. Same. Same. I agree. I won't actually burn anything down, but in my mind, I will burn a building down if Jamie Lee Curtis somehow skimps her way into winning because she's been doing quite well on the circuit lately. But let me tell you what I think is going to happen. I think her and Stephanie will cancel each other out. That's the hope. Oh.

And I want to say, I would love to see Stephanie shoe win. That would be, I would be, I,

I feel like Angela Bass is going to win this and everything. She has to be. Yeah, it's Angela Bass this year. It has to be Angela Bass. But Jamie Lee Curtis, I would be, I mean, Jamie Lee Curtis is great in everything, everywhere, all at once. She's excellent. But like, no, it's not the best of this group of performers. Just not. No. Listeners, tell us who you want to win the Oscars, what you think about the Oscars, and share with me, because I'm curious, what are your Oscars drinking games? I want to know. I want to know. That's it.

Yeah. And if there's a category you really want us to answer because we don't have a ton of time on the show to do it, tweet us. We'll respond with what we think. And we keep the conversation going until Sunday. There you go. We're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, we're going to go big on the movie we all think should win Best Picture at this year's Oscars. Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. We've all just recently rewatched it. And we have some more thoughts on it. Stay with us. You are listening to Vibe Jack. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

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All right. Well, obviously, we have a lot more Oscar opinions than I think we sometimes give ourselves credit for. We've got a lot to say. But now we're going to go all in on everything, everywhere, all at once to talk about the themes and the performances and just why we think

I hope that it will win Best Picture for Oscar, but I just think it's a film that we will be talking about for years to come. It's one of those very special moments in cinema that I think its resonance and its value will only accrue with time.

And so, you know, if you haven't watched the movie yet, you know, feel free to pause it now. Come back to this episode a little bit later. We're going to go there and go deep. But, you know, you can always listen later. Spoiler filled. Spoiler endowed. Yes, yes. Spoiler endowed. Spoiler endowed. Per. But I want to open with a beautiful little monologue from Waymond, Evelyn's father.

husband in the film. He says, the only thing I know is that we have to be kind. Please be kind, especially when we don't know what's going on. I mean, that's just like one character's kind of plea. So what's significant to me about this film is that the Daniels, the co-writing, co-directing team that wrote it, they started writing it in 2016. Yeah.

As I've been listening to interviews that they've done about everything everywhere, it's very much kind of started one of the seeds just kind of coming out of the sense that we all had, at least here in the United States in 2016, that like a sense of trust being lost, a sense of understanding ourselves, understanding who we are in relationship to the people closest to us, just was really shaken up. And out of that, we've gotten this film that's about, let's see if we can sum this up in a very concise way, right? Like-

A mom and wife owns a laundromat with her husband. Things have not gone the way she hoped in her life. She's in her late 50s, I believe, when the film opens. Her father, who she has a difficult relationship with, is on the way, and she's very nervous about his visit. And that's also causing tensions with her daughter, Joy, who is a queer young woman in a relationship with a woman named Becky. And where do we take him from there? Yeah.

It's like, can you say that in one sentence? That's the start. But then we realize this entire family also exists in a multiverse. Right. And the characters who play the mother and daughter in other multiverses, they are locked in mortal battle to determine the fate of all of the universes. Mm-hmm.

And the mother, played by Michelle Yeoh, has to figure out if she can save all the universes without having to kill her own daughter. Right. And how do you save your daughter? And something else that we don't talk a lot about is she's not wanting to kill her own daughter. And she's also questioning the decision she's made in her own life because she's getting a preview into all the different versions of her life that she could have lived.

But the big existential question she's being faced with is her husband wants a divorce and she doesn't understand why. So it's really about this family falling apart but needing to come together to save the world. And this is why I love this movie so much. You could think it's a movie about the multiverse. It's not. The multiverse just exists to serve a family drama that we can all relate to on a very base level. This is a movie about family acceptance, marriage,

love, and how we truly find meaning in our own lives. That's what this movie is about. And for me, the brilliance of Everything Everywhere All at Once is that it doesn't take the motif of the multiverse too seriously. In interviews for the movie, the Daniels talked about how they built the multiverse and the reason there are props like an everything bagel, which represents a black hole, or dildos and butt plugs that you need to go between multiverses and universes is

All those things are nonsensical because they wanted the multiverse idea to be nonsensical. They said, we just kept making up shit to keep that going. They didn't care about the multiverse. It existed in service of these larger things about love and family and life. And that's why it works. And this for me is a distinction between what everything gets right and

and what a lot of Marvel films get wrong. Everything everywhere said, this movie's actually about love and family. The multiverse idea just serves to push towards those plot points. Whereas in a Marvel movie, the multiverse and the structure of the worlds matters more than the themes of love, than the themes of family, than the actual characters.

And so it was fully and completely brilliant for me for the Daniels to take a thing that we associate with superhero movies, the multiverse, and only use it in service of a small story about family and acceptance. That was beautiful. Yeah.

And to build on that, something that I know that they did very purposefully is by using the multiverse as this kind of chaotic, nonsensical space, they were trying to shed light on how we all experience the internet and algorithms, how we're always being thrown things at us that don't really make sense. And then we have to draw these connections all the time. And what is really smart about that is that they were saying to us as viewers, we don't need to explain the logic of these universes. Well, there's no logic when you have butt plugs and dildos. Exactly. So they're just like, let's just...

treat you how the internet treats you every day, which just throws you into this like chaos and you somehow find a way through it all. And I just, I love that. It doesn't pander. And it says like, you're smart enough to be on this ride. Now join us. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I love that they took, you know, the multiverse, which is like a theory of astrophysics. And I was briefly trying to read about this morning and I got lost. Yeah.

Very, very quickly, which maybe is the point. Something about how certain parts of the universe continue to expand and other parts don't. And so they have different rules of physics. That's as far as I got. But it's like, you're right. You're right. Marvel films fall in love with their fake science. They fall in love with these new rules that they're introducing. This film thrives because they understand that it's about how characters respond and react. And an excellent example that you see early on

When Evelyn kind of gets her first glimpse of another life that she could have lived in the multiverse, in which case she became like a kung fu star and like an action. When she comes back to our normal reality, the first thing she says was, oh my gosh, my life would have been incredible without my husband. Where is he? I want to tell him. She literally says, where is he? I want to tell him how wonderful my life would have been without him.

And it's like, oh my God, Evelyn, girl, do you hear what you just said? And so to me, it's less about the, oh, wouldn't it be cool that you were a movie star? It's like, no, isn't it moving and intense that your first response was my life would have been better without my husband. She doesn't even know about the divorce at this point. So it's character development.

We're going to have to see her grow into a better understanding and like empathy for her partner, you know? So it's like they use the chaos of the universe to put this everyday character in a situation where they're having to confront themselves and each other. Yes. And hearing you talk about the everyday character-ness of it all, I actually think this movie functions on an even higher level in terms of a conversation about Asian identity. Yeah.

And who we choose to see or not see. Michelle Yeoh's character is a person who in real life a lot of folks would forget about. A middle-aged Asian woman who runs a laundromat. That is someone who is often pushed aside and ignored and not thought about and not taken seriously.

But the theme of this movie and the story of this movie is that this middle-aged Asian woman who you think is nothing actually exists in multiple forms in the multiverse, and the weight of the world literally lays upon her shoulders. Look at that. Think about that.

For me, that's saying something about the way America chooses to treat Asian people and people of color. You want to ignore? You want to not see us? Oh, baby, wait. We have multiverses inside of us. And so it is also, for me, a meditation on what it means to be Asian and what it means to be overlooked as an Asian person in our society. Yeah. And also to build on that, you know, what her big stakes or her big goals

drama is from the beginning is that she's running a business that's failing, that's out of control. Her family, she feels like she can't get her hands around. She can't control that either. And the IRS is trying to take away everything from her after she's already immigrated to the country. She's already built a life. Nothing she does seems to work. And yet she's kind of forgotten in this world. And what we get to see is that we shouldn't forget these people.

They have immense capacity for huge lives and are going through so much. And I just think we never see those stories on a grand scale. And this person that the world would choose to forget actually is going to save the world. That's the lesson here. All of our destinies depend upon her. Yeah. And then, of course, I mean, you know, I watched the film, I guess, almost a year ago, last March. But it was really striking this morning to be re-watching it and rewatching.

then all of a sudden I'm like, wait a minute. So when the movie opens, it's the day before Chinese New Year. And then to think about this year, you know, there was a horrible mass shooting in a California, mostly Asian community on Chinese New Year Day. You know, like when all of these people are...

Coming together to celebrate everything you just said, Sam. Family, acceptance, community. You know, that was such a tragedy. And so there was... I mean, and there's actually a scene, right, where the gunfather pulls a gun on the rest of the family. And I was like, oh my gosh, these themes are resonating in such a different way. But also something I have to underscore because I just feel like it isn't discussed very much. I feel like often...

when queer stories make it to the mainstream in film, at least for the last few years, first of all, it's usually about men. It's usually about white gay men. So that's one issue. But also it's often usually like the narrative is built around the idea of coming out, however you want to define that. And I found this movie to be a really great queer film. I understand that the two filmmakers are not queer themselves, but I think it has a queer ethos.

in terms of the way it's structured, in terms of its values and its politics, and of course the character of Joy and what she's going through. And I just think we need more stories about queer lives after the point of like, mom, I'm gay, mom, I'm bi, mom, I'm trans or whatever. What's that like two or three years later? Ever

Jacqueline knows her daughter is queer. She knows her daughter, Joy, is in a relationship with a woman. But it's more about like, how do you support her? What does that love live like beyond the easy platitudes? And I just, I love to get to see that on screen, as painful as it was to see it. Yeah. And what's amazing is the Daniels, they've talked about this in interviews, the first drafts of the film, the mom, Michelle Yeoh, was very homophobic.

Like she was very overtly homophobic, very mean, but they dialed it down because they said in their experiences in their own lives, you know, they don't identify as queer, but they have queer friends and family that the struggle they saw was that a person loves their child and they're trying to learn how to love them in this new identity they never imagined for themselves.

And that kind of plays into this multiverse as Michelle Yeoh and Stephanie Hsu are battling across all of these universes. She's constantly surprised about the capacity and the expansiveness of her daughter and what she can do. She can turn people to glitter. She can do all these things, which when you take the fantasy out of, is the struggle a lot of parents, my parents, my friends and family struggled with with my own coming out, was, whoa, I thought of you in this one way, and now I'm getting to meet you in all these new ways that you're self-defining. Initially, she can't even accept that, right? Initially, she's like...

this monster is in my daughter. Like she can't even accept that. But it's like, no, this is your daughter. All of this is your daughter. Yeah.

Well, and I love how at the very end it still just comes back to the mother-daughter relationship. You'll recall that last scene where she is pulling her daughter back from the black hole and saving the earth. She doesn't say, I'm saving the world. She doesn't say, I'm a superhero. What she says is, I am your mother. She says, I am your mother as she is saving the world. Yeah.

Yeah. That hit me hard. And they do it with like a pow pow. It's like, I am your mother. And it's so great because you're right. I got emotional doing that scene because usually when a character is saying that, it's like a matriarchal kind of oppression. I am your mother. Do what I say. And instead, it's like, I am your mother and I'm not giving up on you.

I will never give up on you. I will follow you to any universe and bring you back. It's beautiful. Whatever it takes. I do want to acknowledge a little bit of the business savvy of this movie and campaign as we keep talking about it. When I think about what everything gets right in terms of Hollywood and working the Oscars machine, the Daniels in this movie and the team behind this movie have done a very good job of taking the parts of the biz of Hollywood that work and

and using that to their advantage and not taking the part of Hollywood that doesn't work and leaving that behind. I think of the ways that A24 has marketed this movie and campaigned to get it all the Oscars. It is in the same playbook that,

that Harvey Weinstein used all throughout the 90s with Miramax. But what A24 has done brilliantly is that they have taken the name off the company and it's just A24. And hopefully they've also taken all of the male toxicity out of it as well. Exactly. But when I think about Weinstein and his studios in the 90s that succeeded...

The studios were there, but it was more about him and it was a one-man band. 824 has done this really great thing where they consistently crank out great movies and great campaigns around them, but you can't name one person who works for 824.

I think that's great. And I think they learned a lesson from all that bullshit that Weinstein was up to decades ago. This movie isn't just a good movie. It is a smart movie and a movie that understands the industry a lot better than we give it credit for. I think it's great on multiple levels.

it better win Best Picture. I hope it does. I hope it does. All right, well, we're going to have to leave it there for now, but hopefully we all get to rejoice next week when we're celebrating its Oscar win. Also, if you haven't watched this movie, literally, everyone hearing us talk about this movie, go see it. You got to see it. And honestly, go see it with someone because you're going to want to talk about it. You do not want to be watching the credits roll. You're like, well, now what? Yeah, all right. Well, we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.

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This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands. I

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden. All right, girls, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd like to share the things that are keeping our vibes right, like we always do. And this week, I'm weirdly excited about mine, so I'm going to keep mine at the end. And when I share it, it's not going to make any sense why I'm so excited, but we'll leave it for that moment. But to get going, Saeed, what's keeping it right?

Sure. My recommendation this week is a book of poems that I'm reading very slowly. I find people come to me like I'm their poetry therapist or something, and they're just like, I just read no poems, and I feel bad. I love to read. And I'm like, well, that's none of my business. But what I do tell people is like I often—

I often read one poem a day. I don't know. I think poems are rich and nuanced, and it's okay to sit with it. So right now I'm reading a book called Love and Other Poems by Alex Dimitroff. This is his third book. He's a friend, lovely person, proud queer New Yorker. And I just want to read one very short poem from the book. The title is Once. Would you even believe when it finally happens how easy it is to feel without any proof that

that love may be, could be, actually is longer than time. Wow. I love his meditations on time throughout the book and New York and everything. But I just, after watching everything everywhere all at once to open up the book and turn to this poem, and I was like, oh, that's it. That love is bigger than even the laws of physics. It resonated. So

I love that. Alex is such a talent. He also co-leads Astro Poets, if you all follow them on Twitter. Yes, very fun. Astro Poets? Yeah, it's like an astrology Twitter account. I think they have a sub stack now too, but it's very chaotic. Yeah, it's very chaotic. It's fun. It's a fun astrology follow, if you want. Astro Poets. Astro Poets. Sam, what's keeping your vibes right?

Let me tell you what happened to me over the weekend. Some friends I hadn't seen in a while. These friends have moved out of LA and now live in Torrance, one of the suburbs of the city. So I just see them less. But they're like, we should hang out. Come on down on Sunday. We'll do dinner, but we'll play pickleball first.

And I said, what do y'all take me for? I have thoughts. What do y'all take me for? A frat boy? I took my little bird ass down the torrent. Pickleball is fake tennis for everyone. Let me tell you what is my new energy and my new vibe and my new personality. Did you say your fake bird ass? Yes.

I'm into pickleball. You're into pickleball? My vibe is pickleball. I love it. It is like tennis without the danger. It is, girl. What's the danger of tennis? You're right. Those balls move really fast. Those balls move really fast. To substantiate Sam's claim, pickleball is the fastest growing sport in America right now.

I happened to be at the pickleball national championships recently. I accidentally, I went to go play tennis and I arrived in all the courts were turned into pickleball courts. Okay. So what is this ball? What is this pickleball? So here's the thing. My thing with tennis, I never got into tennis because for me, those balls moved too fast. It hurts you. And it felt dangerous. Um,

Pickleball is the same general construct as tennis. A net, you're on either side. But the ball is much lighter and plastic. And the paddles are almost like larger ping pong paddles. So it almost feels like you're playing jumbo ping pong on a smaller tennis court. And because of that, everything feels less dangerous. I'm not afraid of the ball. I'm not afraid because the ball doesn't move very fast. It's like a wiffle ball. Yes!

So now I love pickleball. And you ended up at the Pickleball National Championship. Well, because Brandon, who's a friend of ours, producer on the show, he and I have played tennis our whole lives. I was in high school as captain of my team. Brandon's a really great tennis player. We play a lot. And as we've talked a lot about

in our own lives. Pickleball is kind of like this, kind of like, I don't know, a weed in tennis right now where it's just taking over so many courts. It's an invasive species. Even the Tennis Federation is worried that their business is going to fall apart because pickleball has become so aggressive because they use the same courts as us. So it's just like a whole thing. Can I just tell you, it felt so accessible. It's very accessible. I usually don't get into sports that involve balls because I'm trying to protect my face. That's danger. Danger. Danger.

This one just felt accessible and easy. And I was good at pickleball within five minutes. And now I'm obsessed. That is fun. It is fun to like get into something. It's a very accessible fun. So go try it. Go try it. I've been playing tennis my whole life. I have a dog dive in my tennis my whole life. Zach is trying as hard as he can not to just say, not on my lawn. But we can feel it. We can feel your light skin tennis vibes radiating through the airways. Yes. Well,

What's your vibes at? So my vibe, God, I hate even sharing this because it's actually like it's good to say. My vibe this week is re-listening to the album by Madonna, Ray of Light, that came out in 1998.

Is there anything about you and your light skinnedness? It's the consistency. Go on. Be true to yourself. It is the 25th anniversary of that album being released. It is my favorite album of hers. And it is wonderful. Madonna used this album to bring electronica to the forefront in pop music. And it really changed the game. It was her album she released at 40 after she had her daughter. And it's a really reflective album.

dance pop music album. What's your favorite? Because I think, I mean, Frozen's really good. Nothing Really Matters, I think. Nothing Really Matters is really my favorite. Yeah, Ray of Light, Frozen, Nothing Really Matters. There's like hit after hit after hit. And there are sad dance songs, which I love. So if you're feeling melancholic, like turn it on. But if you grew up in the 90s, listening to it just takes you back. I remember the video for Ray of Light just being everywhere. It was everywhere. Everywhere.

It was at the height of her fame. And Princess Diana just died and she dedicated the songs to her. It was just a moment. Also, if you like Ray of Light, you will also love her later album, Confessions on a Dance Floor. That one slaps too. Madonna. She's good. Listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's keeping your vibe right? Let us know at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

And that's the show. Somehow. Listeners, thank you.

Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend. I want to thank all the folks who make this show, but I also want to thank Andy and Kim for teaching me pickleball in Torrance this past Sunday. Also, their really cute dog, Yoshi. Huge thank you to our producer, Shanta Holder, who deals with our chaos in a really intimate way. Our engineer, Brendan Burns, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design.

Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Short from Agenda Management and Production. Of course, we want to hear from you. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram at The Ferocity, at Zach Staff, and at Sam Sanders. Use the hashtag vibecheckpod. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. We love you. Bye. Later, damsels.

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