I Put A Spell On You
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Lady to lady. Hey, girl to girl. One-on-one this week. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And you, my loves, are listening to Vibe Chat. Vibe Chat.

Zach is on the highways and byways this week. The southern highways and byways. Okay. I think he's in Savannah, Georgia. Who's to say? And this is a perfect distillation of being friends with Zach Stafford. I truly don't know where he is. We don't know. We don't know. He just shows up.

With new deals, new friends, new situations. And we love that. We love that for him. We love that for him. In Zach's absence, we're going to keep things kind of light this week. Light, breezy. Light, breezy, audiobook filled.

Yes. We're talking about celebrity memoirs this week. Britney with a sprinkle of Jada. And also we'll talk about Halloween just because I feel like every year I have to check the vibes of the spooky season. What kind of spooky are we this year? Yeah, that's fair. And I, you know, I appreciate you because it was your idea to do this as a topic. I'm glad because I feel like.

A lot's going on, obviously. This feels like one of those years where literally until you brought it up in the meeting, I think I forgot about Halloween. That part. We're so busy. It's this coming weekend, basically. It's this weekend. So this is a perfect time. Yeah. We have to get in the headspace of the All Hallows Eve. Yeah. Oh, my God. So that will come. But first, Saeed, what's your vibe? How are you feeling right now?

I was thinking about this last night. I'm feeling good, Sam. We'd love to hear it. I've been binge-watching the show Wheel of Time. Which one is that? It's on Amazon Prime. It's a fantasy show. It stars Rosamund Pike. Oh, I like her. I love her. That lady gives me a performance every time she shows up. I've really enjoyed it. And I was thinking last night, we've talked about it over the course of the summer, but you know...

I've had a really painful spring and summer. Just a lot of personal loss, tumult, change.

You know, I lost my dog in the spring. I went through a breakup soon after. A lot of other things have gone on that I haven't even talked about on the podcast. And so there have been so many moments throughout the spring and the summer where no matter how my day went, when I was left with myself in my solitude, you know, getting ready for bed, just making coffee alone in the morning, that silence, it was so painful. There were times I couldn't sleep.

because I would have painful memories of my dog's last few hours. You know what I mean? Just like where I just kind of bolt out of bed. And so I'm so grateful because now I can feel, you know, everything's going on in the world. Last week, of course, we were talking about Israel and Gaza. That has not stopped. What's going on in, you know, Congress, you know, all of this is still swirling around us.

But I can feel my baseline is back where I need it to be. This sense of, one, feeling grounded, but happy. I feel happy. I feel grateful, you know, even with everything else going on. Yeah, I love that.

How are you doing? I'm in the same space. I'm feeling very grounded. So listeners know my mother passed away in late June. And at her funeral, two really good friends of mine, Ashley and Omar, both in Texas, they promised me that day, we're going to come check on you in a few months. And I was like, okay, sure, we'll see. They did. They came out to see me and take care of me and love on me. And this past few days, they've

We did an omnibus road trip. We drove up to the sequoias and literally talked to the big trees. I was talking to them trees, baby. I love that. And then we went to Joshua Tree and spent a day there talking to those trees. Okay. And it was just so good to have my people around me. You know, before the pandemic, they were two good friends that I would always see in the desert in West Texas every year before Thanksgiving. We would gather in Marfa. Hmm.

And having them be out here and us experiencing the trees and the desert out in California, it was grounding. It was just good to be around them. And it was so good for me to let my friends support me. This has been a hard year on so many fronts. And the beauty...

the place that you and I are at, you know, in our lives. We've had enough time in our lives to build friendships that now feel like family. Yes. And they're family. And Ashley and Omar came and took care of me and I'm grateful for that. And Omar made us go to the Sphere to see U2 and I was like, what the hell are you talking about, bro? The Sphere, U2? I'm like,

Let me tell you, Saeed. I've seen TikToks about this fear. I've done some reading. First of all, did you get like vertigo? That's the main question. It was very tall and high and steep. And it's kind of all around. And all around. Listeners, if you haven't, you need to visualize. Look it up to look at a video so you can really appreciate what we're talking about. But was it overwhelming? It was overwhelming at first, but then you just admire the visual spectacle. The art direction and visuals of it are just gorgeous. At one point...

Bono is walking across the stage holding a long,

kind of braided rope that goes to the ceiling of the sphere. And on the light screen is a balloon. Oh, wow. Okay. So they're kind of, it's like interacting. It's interacting with the space. The entire time, the lights are all around you buzzing past. It's transcendent. You know, I have never been the biggest YouTube fan. I was about to say, but in that space doing what they did, it was amazing. And it's like, you do this thing, uh,

happen through their show, you realize whether you know it or not, you know every U2 song. The only song I can really think that I've loved is they did a song with Mary J. Blige forever ago. That was a redo of their song, One. So One is one of their classics. They did that. But it was great. And it really like, I'm usually kind of down on new technology that I think will hurt art itself. But this technology in the sphere of

opens up new possibility for performance art. What they did with their concert and these visuals. Like, think about what Beyonce was doing with her visuals.

This was even more immersive. And I can't wait for more artists and more venues to do this. It elevates the experience. It really does. I've been trying to think. I was like, ooh, who's someone I would... I was thinking of like Robin. Like really people whose music where the songs kind of allow for like a kind of a psychedelic... I think Robin...

Frank Ocean could actually be interesting because I'm thinking like songs like Pyramids where it just kind of goes and transforms the visuals. James Blake. You know who I want to do it? That would be good. Who? Nine Inch Nails. Girl, that...

Come on. That would be incredible. Yes. I want to fuck you like an animal. I want to feel you. On a screen? Feel me from the inside of the sphere, baby. All this to say, you two loved it. The trees loved it. Ashley and Omar, I love you both and appreciate y'all so much. So yeah, I'm feeling good.

I love that. I love that Ashley and Omar showed up for you. I love the idea of, I mean, obviously they were there with you in June, with you and your family. That's important. But also that they were like, and in a couple of months. Yes. When things slow down, when the cards and the flowers and the casserole dishes, all that kind of slows down. That's when we're going to circle back. I think that's really thoughtful. Yeah. I love them so.

Those are our vibes. Zach has sent us a check-in remotely, even in his absence. Let's hear it. Hello, ladies, everyone listening. I'm so sad I won't be there this week with everyone to talk about these amazing topics that you're about to dive into. I am at the SCAB Film Festival in Savannah, Georgia, which is the big film festival that the university here throws that...

A lot of folks come to every year. I'm here for a project I worked on. But the highlight so far of this film festival that I have to share with all of you is that the one and only Cord Jefferson, a friend of all of ours on the show, an amazing journalist turned TV

TV and film writer premiered his new film, American Fiction. And it is just wonderful. You have to go see it. It's out in December. It stars Jeffrey Wright, Tracee Ellis Ross, Sterling K. Brown, Erica Alexander, who is Said's favorite. But the movie is just wonderful. It's so wonderful. And it's just so exciting to be at a festival and have a friend, someone that all of us grew up with as a journalist,

begin this new chapter as a director and writer and really shine so brightly. So anyway, I miss all of you, but I'm with my other sisters out here at SCAD and I will be back next week. And also for all of you that have asked, the ghost hasn't reappeared. I don't know where he went. He must have heard the show and left me. So anyway, I hope he's well. I hope all of you are well. I'll talk to you all soon.

Listen, Zach had a praying grandmother named Sam Sanders. I was like, we don't want that ghost around, my friend. Look, it's Scorpio season now. Y'all know how I feel about this. I'm very excited to see Court Jefferson's film, American Fiction, also in part because I think Jeffrey Wright is one of our national treasures. Amazing. The film is based on a book by Percival Everett, another national treasure. The book is titled Erasure.

And you're going to love this. It is about a literary author whose career maybe is not quite going where he had hoped. And he gets really frustrated because he's feeling a lot of pressure because urban lit. Remember like authors like Zayn?

Like all of that's kind of taking off around him. And he's saying basically all the white people are kind of praising these other like, oh, that's the authentic black voice. And so he gets really angry. And as a lark out of frustration, he's

He writes a novel parodying those types of books. And it kind of takes off. Hijinks ensue. I love this. I'm very excited. I can't wait to see it. I also, it's so awesome to see Kord in this new chapter. I knew Kord back in the day in Washington, D.C. We ran in some of the same circles when he was a journalist. Okay.

And to watch him, you know, move into this new space and dominate. I love it. Literally, nine, ten years ago, Cord and I were in the streets of D.C. getting drunk. He's a good dude and I'm so happy for him. We're excited about it. But for now, listeners, let's talk about another book. We have our first book club episode coming up very soon. We are reading Poverty by America. It's a nonfiction book by Matthew Desmond. It's about how poverty has literally been constructed.

did by America. We'll be having a conversation with Matthew Desmond. We're very excited that he's going to join us. You can join us too. So get your copy of the book from the library, from places like bookshop.org. Not from Amazon. Not from Amazon. So bookshop.org is a great resource for buying books because it has a better relationship with authors and publishers in terms of making sure we're compensated from our work. Amazon, not so great.

And listen, I'm not going to tell folks to never use Amazon. I know how it be. But for books, let's support the right way. I'd say if you can afford it, if you have the options and you want to support, there are ways to do so. So send us your questions. I'm happy to be the conduit, baby. Use me. Let me be your ghost, darling. We need your questions for Matthew Desmond by November 6th at the latest. Okay.

Okay. So excited about that. And of course, as we always say, thank all of you who send us letters, the fan mail, the comments, the critique. We really read it all and discuss it all in the group chat. So we appreciate it. Keep it coming. We're on social. Also, we are available via email, vibecheckatstitcher.com. Vibecheckatstitcher.com. With that, let's jump in, shall we? Let's go. I am so excited. Yes, it's time. It's time.

All right. So, The Woman in Me. First of all, great title. Yeah. Great title. Yeah. Britney Spears' long-awaited memoir is out this week. As I mentioned, I'm listening to the audiobook, which is narrated by award-winning actor Michelle Williams. White Michelle, not Black Michelle, although I would have loved Black Michelle. I was like, oh, well,

She does an excellent job. I'm already 15 chapters. Which, let's pause right here. It is 9.52 a.m. L.A. time. The book has just been out for a few hours. You are in it. I hooked it up and I realized I could have it play on my TV while I was kind of walking around. But I was like cooking and then I would have to, I kept pausing. I was taking notes. And so we're going to talk about a lot of things, but I'll share some of my thoughts.

So, yeah, let's get into this because we want to talk about the book itself, why it's so exciting and important culturally to have a memoir from Britney Spears. We also want to kind of talk about the celebrity memoir industrial complex because it's actually very old genre. But right now that genre is back.

Yeah.

And she talks about the way she performs on stage. She directly says, I'm like an athlete. And she talks about what that feels like. But also her decision-making is really insightful. I think the celebrity details are obviously pretty explosive. And it is wild to hear about Justin Bieber.

Justin Timberlake or Paula Cole, Mariah Carey, Madonna, all of these people are in this book. But to me, to have someone like her who played such a pivotal role at a transformative moment in American culture,

To get her take on that is, I think, really valuable. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I have covered Britney a lot these last few months. We have an episode today in the feed of my other show, Into It, analyzing her music and her biggest hits to get towards like a central theory of Britney. But also a few weeks ago, we had an episode all about how a lot of people on TikTok were

I believe in some really crazy Britney Spears conspiracy theories. Oh, yeah. Including that she is like... It's a lot out there. ...an AI-generated fake Britney and that the real Britney has been abducted. All this to say, I think about her a lot. And the thing that I keep remembering about Britney as this book rolls out is that she...

She was always incredibly self-aware of exactly who she was and what she was doing. And she was always telling us how it felt the entire time. Yes. If you look back on her music from the very start, she was telling you, I'm going to be a big star and it's going to hurt. Her first ballad, Lucky, she has a lyric.

From the very start, she was acknowledging that the path she was on was going to be a big one, but also painful. And I think that truth in her lyrics and in her story for so long makes us, more than other celebrities, empathize with her.

I think about how I relate to her in this book rollout and the details around this book compared to Jada. For whatever reason, because of that confessional nature of her songs and her lyrics throughout her entire career, I want this book and I want to care for Britney and nurture her. And for whatever reason, I don't feel the same way about Jada. Oh,

Oh, I'm so glad you were. So we're going to get to that because I think that is so fascinating. I did want to share just as an example of, and I'm going to go through some of the tea we get. Yes, because there's already been tea released. A little bit of the tea. Yeah. So she talks in detail. There's a whole chapter about the process of recording the first album, right?

making the music video for Hit Me Baby One More Time. And just as an example of when I say her decision-making, the producers and the record label people initially wanted the look for that video to basically become, oops, I did it again, the kind of Power Rangers, ba-ba-ba. That's how they wanted to introduce her vision. She's like, no. And so the school idea, that was her idea. The uniforms, her idea. All of that.

Having male dancers, her ideas. And so she says during the recording of that first album, quote,

So obviously, like the explosive details are fascinating. But having a woman who exists in the specific matrix of femininity, race, sexuality, kind of think about the power she is gaining as her career takes off, as well as the power that she's losing as she becomes less anonymous, I think is really interesting. And you've got to understand the context in which she enters the scene. Right.

She is perhaps the biggest bridge from the 90s to the 2000s. And if you think about the music that was ascendant in the 90s, for the men, it was Nirvana and all that came after it. So it was grunge and rock. And for the women, it was the belting divas, Celine Dion, Whitney Houston, and Madonna. And so Britney introduced this third way where she said, I'm not doing rock.

I'm not doing belting pop. I'm going to be a pop star in the lane of Madonna, but quite different. Quite different. A little more subversive. And the thing that she did, it kind of...

set the course for the next decade plus of pop music. Like it was a big deal. Even when you think about like her vocal fry, the way she sang, which really annoyed people before you knew it, all the girlies were singing that way. Like she changed pop and she was doing that work.

at a start when she was just like 15. Yeah. The age thing, I was surprised how far we are into her book and into her career before she's 19. And I'm like, gosh, 19 is still a child. It's pretty astounding. But yeah, one of the reasons I think Britney Spears is culturally important for what you're pointing to is, yeah, I think there's a line...

In terms of singers with voices of note who also dance, I think we go Madonna. And then I think we have Janet Jackson. And obviously there's a lot of overlap there. I'm not going to say that it was like one before the other. And then we get to Britney Spears. And I think it's significant that a young woman

white, blonde girl comes along. And again, something she told one of her producers. I think she says this to Max Martin. She said, quote, I want more of an R&B sound, not a straight pop sound. She's paying attention to Janet Jackson, you know? And so it's a package that allowed her to be marketed, I think, in a more mainstream way than a Black woman doing the same thing would have been able to at the time. And she acknowledges there is no Britney without Janet. You know, she's more in the mold of Janet than...

And there were even songs that Janet turned down that Britney took, like I'm a slave for you. I mean, it's remarkable. What do you make of all the tea spilled from the book before it even came out? I mean, there's so many stories. And to be clear, and I said this in the group text. So after I'd already...

finished my MFA in creative writing. So that was 2010. This is around the time or a few, a couple of years after Britney's blackout album came out, I was obsessed with this album. And I was thinking at this point, like, you know, am I going to go into teaching? What do I do? And I was thinking about going back to grad school to get another master's degree in American studies. And my idea was that I was going to do an entire thesis on basically futurism and

And Britney Spears' Blackout album as a model of the distorted memoir. Because as you point out, throughout her discography, she's always been doing this. She's telling you. She's always been kind of keeping it real. But then Blackout, I mean, it's dark, it's warped. Ooh, there's so much there. So I'm excited to get into the tea. Yeah. Well, I mean, and just a sidebar on Blackout. She's so confessional.

Think of songs like Piece of Me. She's saying, you are taking all of me. But what's happening with that entire album, her voice has become that of a cyborg or a robot. She has given her voice up to the machine of the music. So even as she's telling you how much it hurts, she has literally sacrificed herself to keep giving you hits. More than any other pop figure of our time, I think she is a martyr.

She's a martyr. Like, as everything was taken away from her, her kids, her career, her agency, she kept making us hits. She kept making us dance. Yeah. In terms of the celebrity tea and the details, I will focus on the obvious. Yes. In part because that was actually the last chapter I was listening to was about

the breakup and the abortion. She has to take pills. Her family doesn't even know. It's a harrowing scene. She's alone in the bathroom for hours. She really wanted to go to the doctor. They wouldn't take her. He, at one point, thinks he's helping by getting his guitar and coming to play it next to her while she's literally-

screaming in pain on the bathroom floor. It's just like, you are at best useless. And then he breaks up with her via text message and uses rumors for his whole first album and makes it sound like she was cheating on him when in fact it was very much the reverse. Well, he even makes that video for Crimea River with an extra that looks like Britney. Yeah, yeah.

And it's actually really interesting. That part of Britney Spears' career is very close to 9-11. So just as we are in this moment in 2023 thinking so much about how we got into the war on terror and where we are 20 years later, and it feels like, God, we didn't learn any of those lessons. I think regarding gender and gender dynamics, there's a similar...

Should be a reckoning. Did the reckoning happen? Did we get the right takeaways? Because the way Justin shows up and the way he uses his attempted proximity to blackness and to hip hop and misogyny, it feels really relevant.

relevant. And let's just sidebar, he was such a fraud. You know, you think of the hit he made on the back of their breakup, Cry Me A River. Remember the part in Cry Me A River at the end where he's like, cry me, cry me. That's not him, Saeed. Guess who that is?

Who is it? That is Marsha Ambrosius of Floetry. Wait, wait, wait. Literally. Say that, okay. Literally. That's the best part of the song. That is a black woman singing that part. That's Marsha Ambrosius? And this happens a lot. They'll have other vocalists step in to help. J-Lo is always doing this. But literally, the best part of Crimea River, a black woman sang. The devil is a lie and his name is Justin Timberlake. Oh my God!

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Because that was, okay. Wow. Because that's one of those moments where I'm like, indistinguishably, you can't say he wasn't doing his thing on that damn song. Girl, that was a black woman. Also, just listen to Barbra Streisand's version of Cry Me a River. Just listen to that. I'm sorry, what? Barbra Streisand has a version of Cry Me a River?

You're lying to me. Where did you think he got the concept from? Okay, go back and listen after this. Barbara Streisand. You'll be mad at Justin all over again. Okay, okay. I mean, has a virgin. All right, okay, all right. A dozen white queens in New York just stood up in their living rooms disgusted at you. Okay, but let's open it up a little bit because there's so much. Let's talk about, because we're very excited about Britney Spears' memoir. I think the reception has been pretty enthusiastic to say the least. Yes, yes. Madam Jada Pinkett Smith.

You know what? Memoir, however...

Not quite the same reception. What do you think about that?

And even as all of those things were taken from her, she still kept giving us music and art. And so she just seemed like this person who was always giving and this person you always wanted to care for. And this person who even through her lyrics at the start was telling you how hard all of this was. She was always confessional. I compare that to Jada Pinkett Smith.

And her entire character seems to me to be the classic unreliable narrator. I have never known if and when Jada was telling me the truth about her marriage, about her love life, about Tupac, about Will. And that's allowed. That's fine. But it makes it harder to accept a thing like a memoir from her. Because now I look back on the last few years of her life and

And I'm like, well, were you purposefully deceiving me? She brought Will Smith to the red table, you know, after the August Alsina affair. They talk about their marriage and they say together, we ride together, we die together, bad marriage for life. And they're performing this confession. Right. But they're not telling us that they've been apart for years. You know, and I feel a little differently, but I will say.

It is confusing if you use the red table talk for what you're saying is an authentic conversation. And then months later, you're contradicting. Whereas Brittany has always felt like she was telling us as much as she possibly could all the time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, okay. Ooh, I love this. I have so many quick thoughts. I'm going to try to number them to keep myself fast. First of all, one, nothing happens in a vacuum. So, you know, I would say a black woman could be telling us the sky is blue and at best we'll be a little skeptical.

Yes. So I will say Jada will always have that going on her. Yes. Two, significantly, Jada Pinkett Smith is an actor. Britney Spears is a musician. Yes. One of those genres is much better at establishing the terms and conditions where we feel like someone's kind of dispensing the truth. The whole problem with actors is that we're like, who are you going to be today? What's real, what's not real. Always a little. But three, and I think the bigger thing is I think it's generational. Yeah.

Oh, and let me add quickly. 3A is that all millennials, we all think we're martyrs. Okay, so here's the issue. We all think we're martyrs who sacrificed for the culture. Okay, but here's the bigger thing is generational. Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith, for us, our generation, they were already adults when we were kids. There you go. They were grown. We watched Britney grow up.

Basically alongside, she was either a sister or a bigger sister to us. And so I do think it's a little bit, you know, the reception's a little different because I feel with Will and Jada, it kind of feels like watching our parents or even our grandparents-

litigate things from decades ago. What the fuck is even going on here? Yeah. Well, and when I think about the level of regard I have for any celebrity, a lot of it is contingent on how much they've given me. Britney Spears has given us so many great songs. I can never be mad at her. Look, before I was listening to the audio book this morning, I was listening to Lucky Get Mine. Yes. Whereas with Jada, I love her. She's a strong actress, but I can only point to Set It Off,

Nutty Professor 2, and Matrix Reloaded. She has a smaller body of professional work to show us, and that affects what I think about this stuff. Because that parasocial, that sense of intimacy, you have more to draw from. So, yeah, it's really fascinating. One more thing I'll say, because I want to get some, if you have any thoughts on some of your favorite celebrity memoirs. I grew up loving this as a genre, and really it's because these are the books my mom would have around. It's about

And Lucky is actually a perfect song to point to. For us as everyday people, we go, you're one of the most famous people in the world. What could you feel that you have left to say? Or what could you feel that you need? But for so many of these women who have come up in these powerful moments, like superstars in the entertainment industry, years later, we consistently find out, gosh,

You were, oh my God, I'm amazed you made it as far as you did. You had all these forces. So the memoirs, I think, really powerful as a tool because it's an opportunity, I feel, for usually these women to kind of reassert themselves. So two of my favorite all-time memoirs are I, Tina by Tina Turner.

Excellent. And obviously we know that became the film about her life. And also I Put a Spell on You. It's Nina Simone's autobiography. She wrote it with Stephen Cleary and blew my mind. Do you have one that kind of stands out for you?

You know, I am surprised to even hear myself say it out loud because I find a lot of her work problematic on racial grounds. But Tina Fey's memoir, Bossy Pants, is incredible. She's one of the most gifted comedic writers of our time. She has this chapter all about going on a cruise and the fire breaking out on the cruise. It's one of the most hilarious things you'll ever read. She talks about how all of the dancers and singers and performers...

on a cruise ship also have to be first responders because who else is going to be? Oh, wow. Right? Like, who else is going to be? And she's like, the only thing weirder than having a fire break out on your cruise ship is seeing the dude who was just juggling put the fire out. And it's just like, she's so...

funny. I love that. And it's her humor at its best. I get that. I love bossy pants. I love bossy pants. I get that. Well, because that's one of the things about the celebrity memoir. I mean, one, you know, we want the details of your life. I mean, like Britney Spears, for example, talking about how Mariah Carey taught her to take the

perfect photo and how good it felt to nail it. Oh yeah. She's like, come sit on this side. You know, she understood like, she's like Mariah Carey. She's like before everybody else had ring lights, Mariah Carey did, you know, so it's like that kind of detail, but also, you know, celebrities live really interesting lives. So like, like Nina Simone was in Liberia while a revolution was taking place, you know? So, so the ways in which celebrities get to be in spaces and situations that the rest of us don't, it's really,

exciting, you know, if they're smart enough and have the self-awareness to kind of bring it forth for us. That's fun. And I do want to acknowledge as we close, you know, we are not looking at Britney and Jada in comparison and contrast without acknowledging the way that race and age affect who they are and how we see them. And so, yeah, like, I wonder, like, it's part of why I feel so strongly about Britney Spears is how she was marketed to us as, you know...

this young Vestal Virgin, this Madonna and a whore, like all of the imagery tied up with pretty blonde women like her and how Jada never got that. I see that and I hear that, but I still am just like,

I don't know, Brittany. It's you, girl. It's you. I won't deny the realities. I knew I was going to be eating up Brittany's memoir. I knew. This is the celebrity memoir. Prince Harry, no. This is the one for me. But even then, I've still been overwhelmed. And yeah, what I think is it's best to think it's not about a comparison. It's about a mosaic. Right.

And I think with time and perspective, and I loved it, let's circle back. And that's why I love looking at I, Tina, or I Put a Spell on You, where we have decades of distance to really see the bigger picture. Sometimes you just need time to really make sense of it all. That's the thing. That week of Jada and Will news around the book's release felt overwhelming. I don't think I can go to the memoir until I've had a break from that. So perhaps before the end of the year...

I will give Jada's book a little more time. But what I'm going to do today, as soon as we're done, is get this audiobook of Britney. It's time. It's time. Get into it. She has, I mean, pages of detail explaining how she felt about dancing with that damn snake. Well, the snake was hissing at her. She was like right at the worst possible moment during the performance. The snake is looking me in the eye and hissing. She's like, are you fucking kidding me? Got my life. Okay. Okay.

Love her. Yes. Listeners, obviously we could talk about this so much. We got to move on. But listen, how do you feel about Britney's memoir? How do you feel about Jada's memoir? The genre in general? Let us know in our email, vibecheckatstitcher.com. But for now, we're going to take a break. We're going to catch our breath. I might listen to Lucky. Whoa. And we'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, WeAreGolden.

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All right. We are back. Going to switch gears now and talk about Halloween. Before we knew it, it snuck up on us. It's this weekend, Saeed. Out of nowhere. Before we talk more about it, are you going to do any costume shenanigans this weekend? I don't know.

I guess. I mean, I love Halloween. I love spooky season. I love Scorpio season. So maybe. I think one of my friends was talking about having a party this weekend. So I guess I'm going to check in. How about you? You know, it's funny. I shaved off my beard a few weeks ago and made it a mustache. And a friend was like, ooh, with that mustache, you should be Black Freddie Mercury for Halloween. Oh!

I love that. And I'm like, baby. Which Freddie Mercury costume would you do? You know, white tank jeans. Okay. All right. Wig. LA's front. And I want you to go. Look, and you're in LA, so you can do it. I want you to go to a vintage store and get like those real Levi's. I want them like. Damn. Sister.

Actually, a fun little detail. In the book, in her memoir, Britney Spears talks about the denim on denim look she wears with Justin Timberlake. She was like, I love that people still parried it as a Halloween costume. Yes, yes. My favorite costume I did a few years ago was King Midas. He was the one that everything he touches turns to gold and then he turns his own child to gold and it's pretty horrific.

So it's obviously a cautionary tale. I found a way. I had like a crown and obviously like the kind of toga stuff. Listen, it's always fun to wear a little Greek toga, very slutty. But I found a way to make it look like the gold was like melting onto my face with makeup. Oh, I love that. And that was pretty fun. I love that. You know, I love a Greek mythology moment. I love it. Yes, yes. So in L.A. this year, Halloween costumes are going to be hard because...

because SAG-AFTRA, the actors union, which is striking right now, they've just passed their 100th day of strike. They issued some Halloween costume guidance earlier this month. Tell me more. I saw a glimpse of this and I was like, that looks silly. We saw it and we're like, you can't be for real. So basically SAG-AFTRA is saying, if you don't want to be a scab, if you want to support our strike,

You shouldn't even wear Halloween costumes that depict any actors or actresses that are in struck work. So basically, if there is a character from a show or movie that is from the big studios that SAG is striking against,

They have said you should not dress up as those characters for Halloween. So here's my question. Does that mean movies like TV shows being filmed now or just like literally any anything like don't like Barbie, for instance? You can't dress as Barbie. Oh, please. Because they couldn't even promote that for the premiere. And you're like, well, how can you do this? It's so crazy. Even prominent SAG after members were like, what the hell? So once they announced this guidance, Ryan Reynolds, who is president.

A part of this union joked that he is looking forward to screaming scab at his eight-year-old son on Halloween. Like, how dare you dress up as Buzz Lightyear, little boy? So since this tweet, though, SAG-AFTRA has clarified that this rule only applies to adults, not children. But still, I don't like it. Do you like it? Your face is saying you don't like it. I mean, I get it.

I get it. I don't get it. Because I'm sure... I don't get it. What it is is I bet... It's kind of like toys. Like, you know, Barbie, Power Rangers. I'm sure based on the costumes and marketing deals, studios probably do make a lot of money off of... But it's just... It's a losing battle. It seems petty. I don't... Yeah. It felt like a headline from The Onion. When I saw it, I was like, you can't be for real. Like, you can't be for real. It's just weird. Come on, man. And also, like, nothing is going to keep much of America... I mean...

Well, you could always do Renaissance. You could always do Beyonce costumes. But it's just... Let me tell you one community that will never be told no. Coastal gay men getting ready for Halloween. That's a good point. You can't tell them no. They're going to do what they're going to do.

Get on board. You're right. You can't stop them. I have nothing to offer but laughter. You can't stop them. They're a spooky season. An unstoppable force. Literally, literally. That said, you know, the whole, like, costume situation here in Los Angeles during the strike has me wondering, like, are the spooky vibes off this year for Halloween? Like, if you had to say...

Are your spooky vibes this Halloween season? Thumbs up, thumbs down, something else.

Well, you know, so, you know, my thing is I don't find a lot of scary things scary because I'm like, we all live in community. You know, I'm like, why are we assuming? It just feels very narcissistic. I'm like, oh, you assume that ghost is worried about you? Exactly. That ghost is worried about itself. I mean, it's a spooky time. You know, I think everything's connected and the way we're all acting is a mess. So why wouldn't, you know, the supernatural be a mess too? We deserve a little supernatural comeuppance, I guess is what I'm here to say. Yeah.

I feel like this Halloween is going to be especially sloppy because I think that this year has put everybody through it. And so you're going to end up at one of those parties where everyone is just chilling and kicking it. And then there's too many keg stands and too many shots. And before you know it, someone's firing shots in the air. Like that kind of just like... Oh, you took it there. Yeah. I guess in that regard...

The last Halloween that I remember being like, oh, my spirit is being tested was 2018 because I remember being at one party and seeing not one, not two, but three different men dressed up as Brett Kavanaugh. And at least one of those guys was there with his partner. And she was dressed as Dr. Christine Blasey Ford. And I said, we've lost the plot. And in fact, a couple of friends and I confronted whatever.

those couples. I love that. So, you know, so that was low, but it's been a few years in a pandemic. I would hope we've learned some lessons about how to have fun on Halloween without being too messy, but we probably haven't. I think people are going to have a lot of

of energy to release this Halloween weekend. And I just hope people are safe. I'm just saying, I hope people are safe. Before we close this segment, just so I and our listeners can get to know you better, Sidesh Jones. Because I'm sure they're just starving for more details on my life. I want to do a quick little Halloween thumbs up, thumbs down game. I'm going to name some Halloween things and you just say quickly thumbs up or thumbs down. Candy corn. Thumbs up.

Love it. No, it's wax. Don't overdo it because it is kind of waxy. Don't overdo it, but I do like it. The Monster Mash. Thumbs up, I guess. I'm not especially passionate. Wait, which one is that? The Monster Mash. It did the Monster Mash. Okay, play it once. Keep it cute. Don't play it on repeat. Yeah, yeah. The choreography to Michael Jackson's Thriller. Oh, thumbs way up. Two thumbs way up. Thumbs way up.

Pumpkin flavored alcoholic beverages. Thumbs way down. I do not like any of the pumpkin spice anything. I agree. Anything. I agree. Trick or treating. Thumbs up.

Really? Mine is conditional. Do you mean trick-or-treating as an adult? I mean it's letting your kids run through the neighborhood. Parents, watch your kids. Parents don't. Let them out there. Let them be feral. No, feral in my front yard. Unleash them. Unleash the children. Watch your kids. Watch your kids. Let them go. All right. Haunted houses. Thumbs up, thumbs down. Ooh. No thanks. I can't do it. Really? I can't do it. I don't think they're ever scary enough. I want them even scarier. Um...

if you surprise me yeah I'm gonna fight back you're gonna punch somebody I'm not trying to hit someone just doing their job so I just I leave that alone also I just life is stressful enough I don't need to like come up with new things to freak me out yeah

Haunted Hay Rides. Thumbs up, thumbs down. Haven't done it, but would love to do it. Thumbs up. Because I'm in a truck. Can we speed up the truck if I get too scared? I did one with Zach last year and the same thing. I was like, it's not that scary. I want it scarier. Okay. That sounds fun. Couples Costumes.

Thumbs down. There's going to be so many Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey ones this year. Oh, now that is a... Okay, maybe I am thumbs up on that. I will say Travis can dress. He can dress.

he knows how to spend money I don't think he knows how to dress I don't think it's he wears very expensive clothes and I was like look I've been following him on Instagram for a minute I have thoughts about this but that's a cute couples costume I will say I know your answer already horror movies thumbs up thumbs down horror movies thumbs down wait why

Too scary I love horror like TV shows Like The Fall of the House of Usher Haunting of Hill House That kind of stuff But the movies I tried to re-watch Scream Oh my god I just watched it this weekend I couldn't make it through Drew Barrymore's scene I couldn't do it That's like one of the first scenes Oh wow I couldn't And that's like yeah 20 minutes of movie That was like too much Yeah Oh wow Group costumes Now I love a group costume Ah Explain Okay That's fun That's fun Yeah Pet costumes Love it

Love it. Always. Even though the dogs always hate it. The dogs hate it. I can't imagine they're thrilled about it. My building is having like a, they do it every year, like a pet contest. I'm very excited to see the pet contest pictures. Carving pumpkins. I get bored. Thumbs down. I love when other people do. I want to benefit from the aesthetics. I want to do the work. It feels very dangerous to me. Yeah, I probably hurt myself. And also, I mean, the insides of pumpkins are pretty gross. Nasty. Yeah, yeah.

Last question for you, and this is this or that. Hocus Pocus or The Craft? Damn. Yeah.

Okay, so I did make myself rewatch The Craft during the pandemic. I remember watching it. It's scary as shit. It really is. Hocus Pocus. Okay. In fact, literally, I was like, I need to watch Hocus Pocus again this week. And Hocus Pocus 2, which wasn't quite as great as I was hoping it would be. Oh, I watched it before. It was bad. I watched it before. Oh, my God. But I still want to watch it again. I do. Okay. But I'm a Hocus Pocus girl. Same, same. Which I put a spell on you. Eh?

The little Nina Simone through line this episode. Yes. Yes. Well, that's all we got for this segment. Okay. Well,

That was fun. We did it. You passed. What about you? What is yours? The craft? I love the craft. I love the craft. It's good. Yeah. It's just, it's a lot scarier than I remember. It's really heavy. It's effing heavy. Yes. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Listeners, tell us what your Halloween spooky vibes are. If they're thumbs up or thumbs down. Tell us what you're going to wear for Halloween. Send us photos of your costumes. Send us photos of your pets dressed up. Do all of that. Do all of that.

With that, one more quick break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with recommendations. ♪

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands. I

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's change leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden. When booking with other vacation rental apps sounds like this. This place doesn't look like the pictures. Is there a door behind all those spiders? It's time to try one that sounds more like a vacation. This is perfect. Relax, you booked a Verbo.

All right, my loves, we are back. And of course, before we end the show, we each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. Sam, what's your recommendation? Yeah, so I told you last week that my rec was Family Meal by Brian Washington. Beautiful novel. I just finished it and I began reading right after that The Guest by Emma Klein. I'm only like 15 pages in, but I love it. And the hype is real. This summer, it was a very buzzy, buzzy book. Yeah.

And it was like the summer beach read. And a lot of like, you know, bougie East Coast folks were like, this is the book for the beach for the summer. And it was a bit too much. And I was like, stop, stop. But they were right. I like it.

What's it about? I have heard people enthusiastic of being like, this is the one, which I'm always like, chill out. But what's it about? It is about a troubled 20-something sex worker who tries to get away from her current life by going with a man to his summer home.

And then she kind of begins to wreak havoc out there. Oh, it's giving a little the talented Mr. Ripley. So I have not finished the thing yet, but I think I'll be done with it in at least three or four days because I'm whizzing through it. It's really fun. One of those. Yeah. It's the guest by Emma Klein. Yeah. Love a page turner. Love a page turner. What's your record?

My rec this week is a poem. And listen, we didn't talk much about Justin Timberlake. Justin Timber fake. Timber fake. When I tell you that man, as we used to say in Texas, is going to hell with gasoline soaked drawers on. Girl. First class ticket. With two nukes in each pocket. Oh, what an awful...

Yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes.

And we know because of, for example, the way he treated Janet Jackson to know that it's not a one time thing. You know what I mean? It's not a fluke. It's not a young person's folly. It's a pattern of behavior. This person lacks integrity. So, you know, let's light them up. And so I'm going to dedicate this poem by Camille Rankin to him and all the men like him. The title of the poem is Self-Portrait as Outfighter.

A man I've never met tells me to open like a flower, but a flower cut too soon won't soften into bloom. It stays like a fist. So like a fist, I leave a mark and all the heart I have inside this tiny vessel. I'm disruption, the peace, the room, your shining story. I unsettle.

I blemish. I bloody the ring with my memory of you. We walk in circles, all these bodies underfoot. My future like it was yesterday. We've lived all this before, a past we're both bound to. In simpler times, you'd call me savage, a mistranslation of survivor. I dodge your grip.

I told you, didn't I tell you? I can't forget to live. A feeling curled inside me like a fist, a hit, telegraphed generations back. And just like that, red petals from your lips.

That poem, again, it's titled Self-Portrait as Outfighter by Camille Rankin. I have one of her books in my bedroom. The title is Ordinary Beast. But this poem appears in the September 2023 issue of Poetry Magazine, Great Literary Magazine. I need to hear Michelle Williams reading this as Britney Spears. Look! I need it! I need it! Ah!

I need it. And I gotta tell you, Michelle Williams does a good Louisiana Southern. Okay. Oscar winner. You were sharing a clip on Twitter this morning of her reading the part where Brittany writes about Justin Timberlake's black scent when he meets Ginuwine. So there's this scene where she's talking about how Justin Timberlake and NSYNC, they were totally parlaying their proximity to blackness and black music. And that set them apart from the Backstreet Boys. And...

And she has this scene where she talks about how over the moon Justin Timberlake was when he met Genuine. And he was just like using this black scent. Jay got all excited and said so loud. Oh, yeah. Fosh is Fosh is Genuine. What's up, homie?

It's wild. It's stunningly offensive. All this to say, get the audio book. Yeah. And I mean, check out Camille Rankin, check out her poem, the anger and rage she taps into. I think so many people identify with. Listen, every day we are alive is an opportunity to do better.

If you don't, or even worse, if someone gives you the opportunity, say they write a memoir, say something comes forward, and you're like, damn, I really failed this person. And you don't take that opportunity to acknowledge, to make amends, and to demonstrate how you're going to do better. You deserve every demon coming your way. You deserve every demon coming your way.

Happy Halloween, Justin Timberlake. Happy Halloween, Justin Timberlake. It's Scorpio season, baby. Listeners, thank you for listening to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow this show on your favorite podcast listening platform and subscribe to us and write us a review. All those things help spread the word about the show. Also, tell a friend.

Thank you to Brittany Spears and Michelle Williams for making this episode possible.

we stand in solidarity. Till the world ends. Till the world ends. Till the world ends, baby. But of course, listeners, again, we want to hear from you. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheck at stitcher.com and keep in touch with us on the socials at the Ferocity, at Sam Sanders, at Zach Staff. Use the hashtag vibecheckpod. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Maybe we'll have a speaker of the house. Do you think we'll have a

Speaker of the House by next Wednesday. We sure won't. I don't think we will. Listen, no. It's not going to happen until there's another shutdown. And it's coming up soon, ain't it? Well, until then, see y'all next week. Bye. The government may shut down, Vibe Check will not. Heller! Stitcher.

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