I’m Here For Gay Rights, and Also Gay Wrongs
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Hello, ladies. How are y'all today? Hi, sisters. Oh, I am vibrant. There we go. There we go. My dear. Yes. Yes. We are here for Vibe Check. Let's tell folks who we are first.

I am poet and writer Saeed Jones. I'm journalist and Tony Award-winning producer Zach Stafford. I am journalist and podcaster Sam Sanders. Just trying to keep up with these two. And you are now tuned in to our weekly group chat turned podcast called Vibe Check. What a time to be a vibe. I just came up with that on the plane. Wow. Put that on a t-shirt today.

Round of applause for us, episode one. I'm so excited. We're here. We have arrived. We have made it. It's been a while in the making. I mean, when did we have the idea to kind of maybe pitch our group chat as a show? It happens deep in pandemic times. I think the first inkling may have been well over a year ago. Yeah. Then I think we got serious about this about a year ago, like last summer. And I went back and looked at my calendar and

because around the same time that we were talking about the show and talking to people about it, a few of us, maybe all of us, found men. And all of our anniversaries are around this time too with our boyfriends.

That's true. We manifested not just a show, but three healthy and loving relationships. Look at us. Look at Beyonce. That's when you know the sauce is too strong. We're like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Listen. Yes. Yes. And so Vibe Check is honestly the three of us getting together and talking about whatever. We have the kind of backgrounds where we can talk about news. We can talk about culture. We can give you whatever you need. And

And I'm just so happy that like the wisdom and learning that I get from you all in our group chat, we can now give to the people as well. I'm excited about this. Yeah, absolutely. I'm grateful because it's just, there's so much going on. And I think if you are a compassionate, coherent person, I think it's fair to say that it feels like everything, whether it's news or pop culture, it just feels like a lot's being thrown at us. And we don't get a lot of opportunity to kind of like think about how we feel

about what we're being asked to deal with. And so that's what the vibe check is. You know what's going on. Y'all are smart. But how do you feel? You have big hearts, but how do you feel about what's going on? That's what we're here for. Yeah.

Yeah, because it's really overwhelming when we have so much coming at us every day, whether it's a Netflix release or a tweet or now, what is it, True Social that Donald Trump has now launched. And I can't escape because people keep posting screenshots of it. But it's like a lot out there in the world. And we are here to help you understand it all. And also make sure that you feel like you're not losing it in the midst of all of it. We're here to help you keep your vibe right.

On that note, I wanted to just check in with my sisters. How are y'all feeling? How's your vibe? Zach, I want you to start because I believe you went to go see one Lady Gaga last night. I did. And it was my first time seeing Lady Gaga. There was something about that. I did that. Uh-oh.

There's a lot there. So I got these tickets in 2019, like most other gay people in this country. You got the tickets three years early. Yes. Wow. So I got them forever ago and the pandemic hit. And I've never seen Gaga before, but I know she's theatrical. She's dramatic. Yeah.

And she really did all of that. But why I'm feeling weird today about it is being at a Gaga concert and listening to Gaga records in the wake of Renaissance makes her look problematic. - Problematic? How so? Say it.

When I tell you that when Beyonce released that record and was like, I'm going to reset the culture. I'm going to reclaim house music back and ball back to Black people. And I know that we let Madonna as a white woman in the 90s vogue. And we thought that was radical. And it was radical. But it erased a lot of the Black queer folks in it. Watching Gaga.

who can draw a straight line from Madonna's usage of Black culture, Black music, house music, and see Gaga do retrospective performances of her whole career is you seeing how white people have taken from Black people over and over and over again, and how we were letting it go unchecked. And now in the wake of Beyonce, it has been taken back, and now we're seeing it under a new light. I see. So it's hitting a little differently now.

Yes. I've always had a grand theory about Gaga and her approach to race in music. I respect her as an artist. I think she's incredibly talented, multi-hyphenate. But if you go back to her early stuff, Fame and the Fame Monster, she was fully engaged with popular black music of that moment. You'll forget her first co-sign was Akon.

She was making tracks with Red One. These were songs that were played on hip hop and R&B radio. And then all of a sudden something changed. And for the last decade or more, she's moved to this point of popular music, but through a really interesting frame of whiteness where you just don't hear any of the black sounds that you know she knows anymore.

And I have a little recommendation on this. It's a book called White Negroes by Lauren Michelle Jackson. And she writes about all of these different aspects of cultural appropriation. But in music, she really zeroes in on Christina Aguilera and Miley Cyrus. And this is a pretty standard trend where early in a white pop star's career, there's a lot of black people.

And, you know, I think we've seen that with Gaga as well. Her moving kind of like, as you pointed, even into country and into these different kinds of spaces. Okay, that's interesting. She's a phenomenal generational talent, but we noticed some things. That said, how are you feeling, Sy? What's your vibe? I'm

I'm feeling cute. I'm feeling cute. I'm back home in Columbus. I'm just, you know, enjoying this moment. I'm excited to be launching the podcast, of course. I got the first review of my book last night, a little starred review from Publishers Weekly. Thank you for that. So I'm feeling cute. I'm feeling at ease. And I guess it's a little bit like, because my book comes out in September, it feels a little bit like right before school comes out. And you're like, you keep laying out your clothes on the bed. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You're like, which pair of cargo shorts am I wearing? Because I'm very much a kid of the 2000s. I love it. Sam, how about you? How's your week going? I am feeling pretty good right now. Once we finish this taping, I will have launched two shows this quarter and I'm happy.

about both of them and I love them both dearly and as a sign of my emotional state getting back to normal after a crazy few weeks and months of getting these shows together my adult stress acne has begun to subside the face is clearing which means my soul is clearing too and I'm grateful oh my god the skin is literally glowing and the body knows the body knows the body is keeping that score

So, you know, at this point in the pandemic, I think we've been kind of talking about how COVID's becoming, you know, endemic. It's something where, unfortunately, the expectation is shifting, and we're being told, at least, that it's something that we just need to kind of get used to and we just live with. And the reason I say that is the original endemic was white men. We need to talk about...

I had that whole setup. Wasn't that cute? You were ready. Wasn't that cute? I was like, the original strain, honey. The original virus. But for real, I want to talk about, I think this is a conversation about technology, about business, and it's also really, though, about the resilience of mediocre white men. And let's get into it. Adam Neumann, you might remember him as the founder of WeWork.

who, you know, kind of had to walk around in shame. I mean, there've been documentaries, there've been scripted series, there's been countless journalism. And I just want to point out that his so-called implosion, when everything kind of fell apart, was in 2019. That is not long ago at all.

Just yesterday, news broke that he has a new venture company called Flow, which is going to focus on residential real estate, on housing. We'll talk about that in a second. But the big news is that it's gotten a huge investment, according to The New York Times, from Mark Andreessen's firm. Andreessen Horowitz, you know, they're the big –

they're like the king makers. If they invest in your project, it's like you are pretty much guaranteed to kind of at least get a lot of momentum. They invested $350 million valuing the company at more than $1 billion, even though the company hasn't even started yet. And apparently it's their largest one-time investment, like the largest single check they've written for a company. And so let's start there. I just think it is, we see these examples often.

But given the way Adam Neumann kind of went down like a seeming like a supernova in 2019, the fact that he's already back, already getting funding that black startups, black entrepreneurs, women entrepreneurs, you know, dream of. Wow. How do you feel about that? I just want to underscore before we even jump into how this feels now, we have to talk about how astronomical of a failure he was as a leader of WeWork. Yes.

He ran through billions of dollars. He was cheating to the extent of almost breaking the laws. He would buy property with WeWork money, then turn around and make WeWork lease it from him. And then he would charge the company to use the word we. This man was scamming from the start.

And what's crazy is that not just he's back now, WeWork still exists. And it's valued right now at $4 billion. It's wild to me. This man has proven himself to not just be an incompetent leader, but a liar and a cheater and perhaps even a narcissist sociopath. And yet he's still around with the same investors who funded the failed project and failed leadership the first time. The first time.

Did no one watch the Hulu show featuring Anne Hathaway talking about the fall of this man? Anne Hathaway put in the work. She did. Well, you know, quick fact check. It's not Hulu. It's Apple TV. You got to respect. Okay. Yes. Respect. Apple TV. We apologize. But to your point, you know, even at the core, the business itself is a scam. He's renting buildings he doesn't own and giving it to people. It's real estate business.

Really, just like a management company. That's it. He scaled super high. So even the fact that because he failed through all of that, that's what makes him worthy of a $350 million investment when black people in Silicon Valley can't even get an initial investment to even try to fail. And that's what's really the problem here.

And what's crazy is this new business, when you look at what they are saying about it so far, it doesn't seem that profound. So this new company is starting Flow. It's, quote, focused on the residential real estate market. And allegedly, they're going to rethink the rental housing market by creating a branded product with consistent service and community features. He's doing apartment rentals. Right. Right.

He's doing apartment rentals. And let's drill in on that because, I mean, think about where we are. I mean, we are, this country is in a severe housing crisis. It is so bad. And so, like, on top of everything else, like you point out, one, this idea is not innovative. It's not new. I don't think it's worth $350 million of investment. Mr. Newman, and this is according to the New York Times, who has purchased more than 3,000 apartment units.

in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Atlanta, and Nashville. And listen, Zach, I know you know Nashville in particular. I know Atlanta very well. I mean, these are communities where people who need housing cannot get what they need. So on top of it, like this isn't neutral. This isn't like he's just buying housing on Mars where it's not like people are already living. Like these are communities that are already struggling. And so it just makes me so angry on top of the fact that it's being invested.

He's already literally putting people out of homes for this new gimmick. And what he's showing through this investment or through this kind of moment in which he's coming back as a kingmaker is that the dream of Silicon Valley is actually a lie, that a lot of these apps that are meant to bring equity or more accessibility to taxis,

to renting hotels, everything are really about destabilizing these industries entirely and making them even more unaffordable to people of color. So looking at Airbnb, there's lots of data that shows that people buying up all these apartments and renting them have priced out black and brown people all across this country. And they've created the housing crisis that we live in. So as we're looking at a recession looming and no housing equality ever coming right now,

Adam Neumann says, I can make more money by only inflaming the issue. And that is, to Said's original point, white men are the original endemic problem because this is horrible. And like when I think about WeWork and Adam Neumann, I think about a whole crop of Silicon Valley tech CEOs, mostly male...

who sold us things for years that weren't actually true. So this is best written about perhaps by Derek Thompson of The Atlantic. And he has a piece titled The End of the Millennial Lifestyle Subsidy. And he basically goes on to outlaw

line how all of the businesses that we were taught five to ten years ago were going to change our lives were subsidized and cheaper than they ever should have been. Companies like Casper, Peloton, Uber, WeWork, DoorDash, Lyft, Blue Apron, Airbnb,

All of these new companies that were flush with investor money, they were subsidizing the product for us to make it so cheap that we all wanted it. In actuality, they weren't charging us the real price, and the business model was not solvent. The same could be said of WeWork.

And all of these companies now, they've lost money. They have further undermined institutions and industries, and they don't ever have to pay a price. In fact, like Adam Neumann, they end up getting more money to do it again.

When you add up the businesses that were in that list I just ran through, that Derek Thompson outlined, those companies collectively lost in one year $15 billion. - Wow. - $15 billion. And so instead of looking at Silicon Valley as an industry, instead of looking at folks like Adam Neumann or the folks from Uber and Airbnb and saying, "How about you fix your business model and figure out if this stuff actually work?" They give them more money.

In what space that was primarily black or brown or queer or POC or led by women, would you see that much blind faith in leadership that does not prove and show results? And given both that we are in an ongoing housing crisis that's only getting worse and worse, the fact that, I mean, this industry hasn't even solved for redlining. I would say that redlining is still happening.

And so when we think about the way these tech companies work, the way they try to act like, oh, data is this wonderful, neutral, totally objective way to make these kinds of decisions. I'm like, also, I'm really skeptical and frankly scared about not only how they would impact

housing scarcity. But for the people who get lured into this, I mean, it's one thing, you know, for Blue Apron, like you mentioned, for the subsidizing for it to kind of run out and all of a sudden the prices increase. When it comes to housing, where you live, which I frankly think should be a human right, it shouldn't be up to people like Adam Neumann to make decisions. It's actually very scary, the implications of someone like him getting to call the shots on something so important. It's incredible. Yeah.

This is failing up on a whole new scale. Well, and then there's a whole nother layer of uncertainty that these new Silicon Valley startups have introduced to the labor sector, to workers across the country. When you think of what Uber has done to ride sharing, to taxis, they didn't just kill the taxi industry or had a big part in that. They also told lots of folks that the best work you can expect...

is hourly with no benefits. You're covering the cost to maintain your car, to get your gas, and we'll take a cut. This entire generation of Silicon Valley tech leaders have taught American workers that we should expect less than we ever have before.

and that uncertainty is just what's built into it for them. It's not fair. Adam Neumann, to me, symbolizes the worst of it, and I don't know when this stuff stops. Me either. It's disturbing. When you look to the future, what does that say to workers or small business owners when they see an Adam Neumann, not only...

accelerate it through mass amounts of capital, but also the obsession with businesses that just disrupt and destroy any small access point. The fact that if he can launch his company successfully and he becomes the rental provider for the country, that allows no competition. No one ever has a chance. No one can ever build anything. So during these kind of meteoric rises of these Silicon Valley CEOs,

What we're also seeing evaporate is the American dream, really. And also this falsehood that anyone can do this, which we know is not true. Anyone who's white, male, lives in Silicon Valley can do this. But black people continue to only make up about 5% of VCs' investments every year. So it's really not helping us at the end of the day. So it's really sad news to see Adam Neumann win, because it means the rest of us can't win.

As we all know, I mean, it's already difficult enough to get, you know, the plumbing in your bathroom fixed if your landlord isn't actually someone who lives on the property and is having to deal with the same issues. If it's some mysterious company that owns like four buildings on your block. To think of like some Silicon Valley company, it's clear that they want to scale where they're owning, you know, rental units all over the country. Like how would

even work? I just think it's really disturbing. And we've seen the ways in which racial discrimination and sexism have thrived in spaces like Airbnb, for example. So that's certainly not going to just disappear because it's now rental. I think it would

obviously just get worse. And again, to see people of color who work in VC funding saying, also, there are great entrepreneurs of color or women entrepreneurs who just never get an opportunity. The fact that Adam Neumann can not even really implode

but actually just become a brand that's just like, well, let's wait and see. That's so clear that's what's happened. Like from 2019 to now, it was just like sit and stand by, you sit in timeout for a couple of minutes, but then you know there's a payday coming. I mean, he walked away from WeWork with millions of dollars anyway. It's just incredible.

A lot of these Silicon Valley boy wonder leaders, they have convinced themselves that they're good CEOs. But I really think in actuality, they're good PR people. They're good marketing people. They're good comms people. And the right place for someone like Adam Neumann is pushing the product.

for a company that's already solvent, not trying to make his own company. And it's like to see these men, it's usually men, over and over and over exaggerate their skills when what they should be doing is commercials for other folks' businesses. It annoys me to no end. They don't ever learn. Yeah, and it's annoying because...

revolutionizing quote unquote being a landlord. There's nothing special here. This is really nothing new. There's no technology, hardware. He's a white man that said, you know what's cool right now? Being a landlord. And that's how he got all this money. So that's just the sad part. He's just replicating old...

systems over and over, which at the end of the day is white supremacy. I feel like we're going to wrap up this conversation and find out Elizabeth Holmes is getting into like puppy mills or something. You know, it's just like, how bad can it be? It reminds me of that time when Lyft was like, we're going to do this thing called Lyft Line, where it's a car or a vehicle that makes certain preset stops and you can hop on when you want at one of the stops. And everyone was like, y'all made a bus. Lyft, you made a bus. You made a bus.

I'm just so tired of some magic happens when an idea is made in Silicon Valley or in the Bay Area. All of a sudden, folks think it's profound, even if it's not. I don't understand it. Someone stop it. Wait, Sam. I want to ask, because I feel like you'd have a good answer to this. What is something you do every day that you could pitch as a new Silicon Valley company? Hmm.

I love this. I am always cleaning my white countertops. And I would pitch like a smart Clorox wipe that is giving you the pH of your counter while you're wiping it down. And someone will pay for that shit. I would get the pitch together and it would be like smart wipes. Smart wipes. And there you go. You know, it's Silicon Valley. Wipey settle. Just white wipes. Just white wipes. You know, Caucasian counters. Woo!

Caucasian characters. $400 million investment from Andresen Horowitz today. Listen, Adam Neumann, we're keeping an eye on you. Vibe Check is here and we are alert. So watch out. But for now, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

All right, we are back. And I'm actually really excited to talk about this because I think for me, we're going to try to prove this theory I have that we can make anything a bigger conversation, even if it's not a big deal. And today's not big deal is Kamala Harris's stand group, which is called the K-Hive. So in an article from the Daily Beast by Scott Bixby that came out last week, we have found out that the vice president's fervent followers who...

or similar to the Bernie bros or Mayor Pete's group on Twitter have allegedly stopped supporting the vice president as she continues to see plummeting poll numbers in the United States. So what do we think about this, everyone? Sam, I see your hands raised. You have feelings. I wasn't thinking about it. I wasn't thinking about it. Let me tell you something. No knock to Kamala Harris. I just didn't know she had a hashtag K-hive. And I didn't know that all politicians had to have a hive or a stand-em.

It is increasingly tedious to watch the nasty beast of toxic fandom even overtake our politics. I don't like it. And

And this is honestly not about Kamala Harris. It's about this weird need people feel to perform excessive and toxic fandom of any and everything they can. I don't get it. I want to read this one quote from the article because I think what we're really talking about is like the stand-up of everything. You remember when we used to talk about like the internet of things? It's like the stand-up of things. But I think this is...

quote from a quote self-described former member of the gay hive. Former. What an arrangement of words. This person says, quote, I would never ever say that I regret supporting the first black woman vice president ever.

But the disappointment is real. I was obsessed with the idea of this person who could undo the systemic racism and sexism and heterosexism and government with one fell swoop. And now I'm thinking to myself, did I just make up a person in my head who could do these things? Yes, girl. Yes, you did. That is what toxic fandom does. And this is the problem. What?

I think what happens when you have these hives and these stand-ums is that the love and the fervor for the person or the thing becomes so enlarged in their spirit that they start to imagine things that aren't actually there. Kamala Harris is not a superhero. She's a politician.

I agree. But Sam, can you take us back to the 2016 presidential race? Because I think you were a part of one of the first political stand-ups. Well, you're covering it with Bernie Sanders, correct? So what did you think of it back then when you saw it kind of coming to life? I covered Bernie Sanders during election 2016. And I'll never forget the ways in which the most toxic members of the Bernie stand-up refused to accept reality.

I was on the floor of the DNC the day that they were counting the votes, which were clearly in Hillary's favor. And there were some Bernie supporters there on the floor who had traveled from across the country to be at this convention who said, "Well, maybe we can change it. We can have the superdelegates change their minds on the floor day of." And I had to explain to them how it just probably wasn't possible at all.

And I could see on their faces, on the floor of the DNC, them for the first time realizing it wasn't going to happen. They had allowed themselves to suspend disbelief or to refuse to believe things because the fandom was so strong. And that was when I knew that whenever it manifests—

Toxic fandom, toxic stand-up. It doesn't just make you mean and angry towards other folks who don't feel the same way you do. It makes you ignore the truth. It makes you ignore reality, and it makes you refuse to see what is right there, and that is unhealthy for a civic society.

I'm sorry, it is. And then let's talk about this because it's, you know, it's not just Kamala Harris. It's not just Bernie. I mean, remember the Cuomo sexual moment? And I thought that was- And they refused to see the truth about that man. Yeah. And then that was especially disturbing given that it was like, well, he's literally sexually harassing and abusing staffers. So to sexualize this particular political figure is like even more, you know, Elon Musk. I mean, you know, if anyone-

I dare any of you to log on to Twitter right now and say something negative about Tesla or Elon in particular. Your mentions will fill up with people defending him. You know, it's one thing to adore and to really passionately, fervently even admire someone or something for what they contribute to culture. And I think that's when you become a fan. I think the issue when it becomes toxic is when

And I keep going back to this quote about Kamala Harris, and it's like, there was no scenario in which one person could solve for the systemic. That to me is like the person becomes a stand-in for the worldview.

And when that happens, now you're in a whole new situation. That's when you see people like defending Elon Musk, like he's their messiah figure. And it's like, wait, what's going on here? It's also, I think, when you see someone talk about Kamala Harris and say, I expected her to fix the systemic. That to me is an admission of a feeling of a lack of agency.

I don't know how to fix structural racism. I don't know how to fight climate change. I don't know how to fix elections. I try to get involved and it seems like nothing is helping. I can't believe in these systems to serve me anymore, these institutions to serve me anymore because they're not. Let me just stand Kamala Harris and hope that that will fix it. So on top of not being real,

I feel like toxic fandom and toxic stand-up is also people giving up on systems doing the work and just hoping that some superheroes can do it for us. You know, the moment we start talking about Black women like they're superheroes, it's almost like a super mammy. Like, people think they are praising the intelligence and capability of these figures, but to me, it feels just like another manifestation of...

of, oh, you want this Black woman to come around and you want her to be your mother, your confidant, your best friend. - And a magical Negro. - You're just magical. - You're asking for a magical Negro. - You're magical everything. Yeah, absolutely. - Yeah. - And I will say that I do think there's a way in which white people do use Black people in the public domain as these saviors. And that brings me to Beyonce right now, which we all love Beyonce, but the weight that that woman carries that we project on her is a lot, lot.

So I guess like, how are we thinking about the differences here? Because the Beehive, I think can do no wrong. I think they're wonderful people.

but these K-Hive people, I think not all the beehives are good. I guess they could do something wrong. The beehive still has their foot on poor Carrie Hilson's neck. Let that girl alone. She deserves a career. They do. But I will say there's a difference for me when I think about toxic stand-ups or fandoms of pop stars and toxic fandom of political celebrity.

One seems to be more allowable. I'm willing to just let toxic Taylor Swift fans who think she can do no wrong or Beyonce fans who think that fine, go ahead. But I think it's a problem when that kind of energy is brought into our politics because it distracts us.

from the systemic. It distracts us from process and policy and change and has us focusing on people who are just people. And I think in its worst manifestations, Stan culture convinces us to...

to care the most about the people who need the least care. And I think what happens with this stand culture is that we can become so concerned with the well-being of these people that we forget what we were asking them to do and what is the real substance here.

And I would hate for a conversation about the stand-up of Kamala Harris to distract from the shit that people actually need, which is baby formula and lower gas prices and their rights preserved in courts of law across the country. Well, and also I think, you know, stand-up makes nuance impossible because stand-up's kind of position is either you're with us or against us. And I want to make, you know, I think the most dangerous argument

in the country right now are Trump supporters. That's literally what's happening. But also I think when we think about like pop culture, what frustrates me is like music criticism, I think has actually come to really suffer because of stand-up because you aren't allowed, like you only praise is acceptable, only fanfare

profiles and beautiful photo shoots. You know, you can't have like a nuanced review of a BTS album. Good luck because like stand-up doesn't allow for that. And I think when it begins to bleed, as you point out, Sam, into commerce, I mean, it's clear that WeWork as a brand, Adam Neumann,

Newman as a brand has stance. They are at Andreessen Horowitz. And they're giving up a lot of money. Very powerful stance. Then we see how that plays out. Yeah, and I think like, I'm cool with stand-up with Beyonce, you know, musicians, et cetera. But with these politicians that get...

And I do remember because being involved with the last presidential cycle, when I moderated a presidential forum, in whatever question we asked Warren, Harris, whoever, just us pressing in on them or re-questioning their stance on LGBTQ rights pissed off these fans so bad. And I was confused that like, why can't we have a real conversation about real issues, real histories, real voting paths without

without letting the sheen of Pete Buttigieg being the first gay person to do this or Kama being the first person to do this. Like people were so obsessed with the ideology or like the symbolism of this person and still were not wanting to talk about the facts of the matter. And I think that's the scary part. This focus on visibility, on...

on a representation, on firstness. It's obviously important, but it can't be the only thing. And listen, I'm not saying all stand-up is bad. I'm a stan of people like Beyonce. Y'all know that. But it needs to be in its right place, and I want a lot less of it in our politics right now. Here's my immature but delicious question to wrap this up and keep it cute. We all have to be transparent. We are Beyonce stans. Can you think of the or a moment when you realized...

You were a Beyonce stan? Because mine was definitely like, I cut off a guy that I was talking to. Like we'd gone on a few dates. This is after the self-titled album came up and he made me turn it off while we were having sex. And I was like, oh, I was like, the track goes silent and so does the relationship. I broke up with him like a few weeks later. Good on you. What about y'all? I have been in situations romantically years ago.

where someone has mentioned that Taylor Swift was more talented than Beyonce because she writes her songs. And I have erased who said that in my mind forever. Like they have been banished to the darkness of the universe. Her name was Diane Warren. And you haven't spoken to her since.

My good girlfriend, Diane Warren, and I don't speak anymore. No, it wasn't her. It was someone else. It was another white person. But if you say anything negative about Beyonce in any situation, I do immediately start with, you were dead to me, and we start to go up from there. You have to begin proving your point. So that's how I feel. There's like a cliff drop. Okay. Yeah, immediately. It's like the stock market. It just drops. And then we've got to build it back up as it happens. Yeah.

I think I've been a fan and a stan of Beyonce since No, No, No, the Wyclef Jean remix to the Destiny's Child song back in eighth grade. 1998. It was a good year. The writing was on the wall then. But I think I was truly convinced of the power of her performance when I went to see her on the Formation Tour. I saw her in Baltimore at a big stadium. And usually at big Beyonce shows, there are three distinct swaths of people in attendance. Yes.

There are the girls, there are the gays, and there are the straight men the girls have brought with them. I was seated behind this straight white couple. The woman was getting her life the whole show. The guy was just there for company. He didn't get it. He was in his seat the whole time sipping a shitty beer.

But this show happened maybe a week or two after Prince died. And so Beyonce did this humongous Prince tribute towards the end of the show. And she launches into a truly impeccable cover of Prince's Purple Rain. The band is on point. Her vocals are on point. And I swear halfway through Purple Rain, Chad with his beer in his seat who hadn't moved the entire show, puts his beer down, gets up and yells, what?

Wow. And then he was on his feet for the rest of the night. And I witnessed in that moment the true power of Beyonce. It is not the power she has over her most devoted fans. It is her ability to convert the non-believers if you give her enough time. I'm telling you, hooked me for life. I love that. Hooked me for life. I love that. Know her. Anyway. Know her. Know her. All right, we're going to take another quick break, but don't go away. We'll be right back and we'll have our recommendations for you to enjoy. ♪

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All right, we are back. And before we end the show, we're going to take time for what's going to be, I'm sure, one of our favorite segments. We're going to talk about the

We are going to do some vibe wrecks where we're each going to share something that is helping us keep our vibes right this week. And listeners, we want you to be a part of this segment as well. What is helping you keep your vibe right? What is throwing your vibe off? You can hit us up on this show. Just email vibecheckatstitcher.com. With that, I will start with my vibe wreck right now. What's been keeping my vibe right? I've already watched it twice, but...

that new Jamie Foxx vampire movie on Netflix. It's called Day Shift. Jamie Foxx is in a vampire movie. He is a vampire hunter who

pretends that he is a pool cleaner in the valley in Southern California, but he's killing vampires and taking names. And I don't usually love vampire movies. I think a lot of original Netflix films can be mid, but there's something about Jamie Foxx. That man is a true movie star. And whatever he does on screen, he's magnetic.

This movie is really fun. It's got Jamie Foxx and Dave Franco and Snoop Dogg, and they're just fun to watch for an hour and a half. How does that compare to Blade and Wesley Snipes? Or Blackula. It's not even that deep. It's not even that deep. Like, Blade is like art. This movie, Day Shift, is not art. This is a fun romp to have on in the background while you're looking through Zillow at night. You know. That was my vibe wreck for the week. Jamie Foxx is fun. Go watch Day Shift. Who else has a vibe wreck? Mine?

Mine is season three of Harley Quinn. It's the animated series on HBO Max. The third season just premiered, but it's one of those shows where I've rewatched both seasons several times. I don't know if you know, but Harley Quinn in the Batman Gotham mythos is famed as being Joker's girlfriend.

But the show is about her life after they break up. And it is so great because it is just as badass. I mean, I should say, I'm going to make it very clear. This is a show for adults. This is not for children. This is truly TVMA. I mean, it is wild. But I love it.

because it's just as badass and tough and inappropriate and sometimes nasty, you know, as any quote-unquote tough guy show. But it's all about Harley Quinn. And in the third season, it kicks off with Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy's honeymoon. Honeymoon?

because they are a couple. It's so good. And there have been some, you know, bro fans who have been like, oh, we would love to see Harley Quinn get back with the Joker. And the show's creators apparently have said, no, they're like, this is not like a side plot. They're like, she's never getting back with the Joker. The entire point of the show is about her liberation. And they really take her love and her relationship with Poison Ivy seriously. It plays out over three seasons and it's just, it's great.

I just love it. And I think a lot of people who might be turned off by a lot of Batman stuff because of, you know, like the Joker, it's like, is that even my scene? Is that my crowd? I think you would be delighted by how different this is. Check it out. Thank you, Saeed, for this. Because I love Harley Quinn. I love Poison Ivy. Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy forever. Iconic, if you have not watched.

But I saw billboards for the show all over LA and I just assumed it wasn't going to be queer. I always just have that expectation with comic shows. But if she's like really marrying a woman, I'm down for this. I don't want to watch a show that centers a unwell white man who gets everything, which is the Joker. Okay, I'll check this out.

I'll check this out. I'm ready for an era of queer people being villains, but having agency. I want that. I want to see a- Agency, that's actually what it is. Listen, I am here for gay rights and also gay wrongs. I want it all.

I want it all. I'm not the first person to say that. Zach, what is your vibe rec for this week? My recommendation this week is Aretha Franklin's Amazing Grace film. One, it is my favorite documentary. It's top five favorite documentaries ever. So the film came out in 2018, but it was filmed in 1971 or 72. And it's the recording of her doing the recording of her gospel album, Amazing Grace.

which is the highest selling live gospel album ever. It may be her highest selling album of all time or one of them, but it is the most incredible film because it's only her singing gospel music. And at the time of her life, she was at the height of her career and people were saying she had left the church. She wasn't religious. She wasn't the old Aretha. And this was her reclamation moment to be like, don't you ever question that the queen of soul can talk about sex and also talk about God, which is what Beyonce's doing with church girls.

It's a church girl. It is the four year anniversary of her death. So rest in peace Aretha. But I just think people should watch it as you are also listening to Renaissance for you to kind of understand this larger atmosphere of music and black women that we're all experiencing right now. And what I love about this movie, I saw it in the theater when it came out and sobbed like a baby.

But this recording took place in Watts at the New Bethel Baptist Church in Watts, Los Angeles in 1972. It's not just a very black movie. It's a very L.A. film. And if I recall correctly, I want to say her backup on the organ was a renowned minister and vocalist, James Cleveland. Yeah.

It's just a beautiful thing all around. It's a beautiful thing all around. And James Cleveland has his own complicated history. Yes. Allegedly. With sexuality. Yeah, with his sexuality. Died from complications from AIDS. But like, we watch the film and do the homework around it. I think Travelle Anderson, who used to be at the LA Times and not magazine, has an incredible piece

that accompanies the film if you want to read it that tells the queer history of it too but it's just an amazing film just turn it on listen enjoy it's amazing yeah Climbing Higher Mountains is my favorite song from the documentary it's so beautiful there's this one little moment where they're panning through the crowd in the church in the pews and

And all the way in the back row, guess who's sitting there just literally trying to swagger Jack and soak up all the black culture he can? Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones. I know you lying. I'm not lying to you. He's in the back just soaking up as much blackness as he could because that was all the Rolling Stones were doing. They just repackaging black sounds. He is actually...

Yeah, he is the white man that Sam said that he saw at the Beyonce concert. That's the energy Mick Jagger has. That was Mick Jagger. He's the Chad who stood up. Anywho, Aretha, we love you. We love you, Aretha. We miss you. We love you. We miss you. We do.

All right. Listeners, share with us what is getting your vibe right throughout this week or any other week. Tell us what you're feeling, what you're not feeling. Check in with us via email, vibecheckatstitcher.com, vibecheckatstitcher.com.

With that, we have finished our very first episode of this wonderful new show, Vibe Check. We did it, ladies. I'm so proud of us. We did it, and I feel good. It feels good. I like this. It feels real, real good. Huge thank you to our producers, Chantel Holder, engineer Brandon Burns, and Marcus Hom for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least...

Thank you to Jared O'Connell, Imelda Skinder, and Ron Gaskell for all their help. And I want to clarify, we got to be really clear on Brandon Sharp's title. It's also HNIC. I say that lovingly. Listeners...

We already told you our email address, vibecheckatstitcher.com. But you can also find us over on Twitter at Sam Sanders, at The Ferocity, and at Zach Stafford. With that, first episode of Vibe Check in the books. So proud of us. It's going to be great. Keep listening. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Till then, bye! Bye! There we go. There we go. Bye!

Stitcher. Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then, there are moments that remind us to be more human. Thank you for calling Amica Insurance. Hey, uh, I was just in an accident. Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of. At Amica, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking.

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