I’m Not Gonna Smile for You, but I Might Twerk
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Listeners, listeners, listeners, Sam here. I got a quick little announcement for you before we start this episode. You've heard us share it before, but I'm gonna share it again because you need to know and I wanna see you there.

We have not one but two live events coming up very soon. I'm leaving the house. I'm leaving L.A. I'm leaving the West Coast to come join y'all in New York and Boston for two live shows later this June. And if you are in any way close to either of those cities, I want you there. I want you there. Boston, come catch us on Thursday, June 22nd at WBURCitySpace.com.

And New York, come see us on Friday, June 23rd at the 92nd Y with very special guest, Penn Badgley. Yes, you heard me correctly. Penn Badgley of You and Gossip Girl fame. He will be with us in the flesh. I don't know what I'm going to wear, but it's going to be great. I promise you. These are our two first live events ever, and we are so excited to show you what it's like to make this show IRL.

Join us for the Kiki. It's going to be, as the youth say, lit. Click the links in our episode description for tickets to the show. I better see you there. Don't play games. Buy your tickets. Do it. Hello, my ladies. Hello. Hello. Hello. Is that in honor of Tyler Perry buying BET? You know, I've got to say maybe. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And you are listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

This week, Tyler Perry. Come on out, Tyler. Come on, Tyler. Widmaker Supreme.

This week, we are going to talk about the way Black people's facial expressions are surveilled and scrutinized. It happens to Angela Bassett. It happens to Samuel L. Jackson. But goodness knows it happens to the rest of us far more frequently. We're fed up.

And we're going to talk about it. Yes, we are. What do you mean I'm not smiling enough for you? And we're going to talk about how the internet algorithm determines what a hit song is. Yes, and it's another thing that I'm fed up by, which is that Kylie Minogue's long pa-dom pa-dom. Where did it come from? When can it go? But before we get into all of that, my sisters, how are you feeling? Zach, what's your vibe?

I'm feeling good. I'm in a really good mood this morning, but I'm also feeling fed up at the same time. So I guess I'm feeling empowered, like I'm over it. And we're like halfway through the year. And so I think now my intolerance for things are over. So I'm just very clear with people, very open and transparent. So that's really great. But I'm also in a weird nostalgic mood because Tyler Perry, as we've been joking about, bought BET, which sent me down a rabbit hole last night after I got the push notification.

And I watched Diary of a Mad Black Woman again. And let me tell you, it brought back so many memories. The trauma. The trauma of it all. And the wild, I forget how Tyler Perry can mix genres. Like, not seamlessly, very clunkily. Like, it is like, drama, comedy, it's like a lot there. But,

the one thing I just can't let go of is Shamar Moore is wearing a wig the whole time and I never clock that. What kind of wig? It's a bad wig. A cornrow wig. Let me send it to you. Listeners, you're now going to hear Sam Sanders react to Shamar Moore, actor, light skin king of our time saying a wig. I forgot about...

- Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. - Fix it, Jesus. - Like you can see the lace. Like you can see the glue. - You see everything, everything. And I have to shout out that a Twitter user, Chaos King writes, "I knew not to trust Tyler Perry when he made Shamar more wear that braid wig." - And like why? He could have just had that.

To be clear, if you are not familiar with Tyler Perry's oof, I just want to make it very clear. There's nothing in Diary of a Mad Black Woman that requires this character to have cornrows. Zero. It's not like it's coming up with a blot. When I began the movie, I was like,

Oh, wait. He loses the wig, right? Like, he has a transformation. No, no. He keeps the wig the whole time. You can't even see, like, good cornrows. You can see scalp in between the rows. It's really bad. This is just fuzzy. I don't forgive him ever for this wig, and I hope the new BET has a wig budget. So that's where I'm at today, this week. It won't. But dreamers can dream. Yeah. So anyway, Saeed, how are you doing? Are you feeling Tyler Perry nostalgia today, too? Yeah.

I've got to tell you, I'm not feeling Tyler Perry nostalgic today. I think I'm much more in the strange loop Michael R. Jackson camp when it comes to Tyler Perry. My vibe is actually I'm very struck by you saying that we are now halfway through the year. Wow. To me, that's always an opportunity to go, okay, it's time to take account. And I'm already doing a lot of personal accounting.

So I don't know. I think I've been thinking about strict boundaries right now between the world, however you want to define that, and my body and my home.

I'm having a good time here in my home and in my body. I am nurturing. I'm doing a lot of self-care. I'm writing. I have legal pads everywhere. And I think actually this came from our friend Brandon. He was like, as you're going through this process of healing, write things down so you don't forget. So I'm just constantly kind of – and I love that. I know things are going on out in the world, and obviously this podcast is about that. But I'm like, I'll wait until vibe check. I'll wait until vibe check. I get that.

Because, for example, we record on Tuesday afternoons. I am aware that in a few hours in Miami, Florida, I believe Donald Trump will be arraigned. It's not my business until it needs to be my business. That's just how I feel. I like that. You know what I mean? I like that. Of course, I think this man is a crook and should be held responsible for his many, many crimes. But at this point...

I'm not on the jury. I'm not the judge. I'm not in the state of Florida. It's not my business until it needs to be my business. And so that's just kind of, that's the boundary I'm kind of creating with things going on outside of my humble home. I love that. Yeah.

I love that because it also is like protecting your peace in many ways. We spoke about the Trump arraignment during our production meeting and all just realized that we're going to miss it. Like we all can't move our lives around this man's continual criminal activities. People might be protesting later today. And I was just like, I don't know what value is being created by Said waking up on Tuesday morning stressing out about what's going to help. I agree. Yeah. So that's where I love it. Peace. Peace.

Peace. Sam, how about you? I'm good. You know, I was out of town for three weeks. I had some vacation and some East Coast time for work. And now I'm back.

And I'm really in this, you know, halfway through this year, I've been thinking a lot about television and the state of TV. And I'm kind of just stuck on it. We had a conversation from my other show, Into It, with one of Vulture's TV writers, Joseph Adelian. And our whole chat in an episode that's in the feed right now was basically like, peak TV is over and it didn't work.

So you think back to the rise of Netflix and shows like Orange is the New Black and House of Cards 10 years ago. It felt like a new golden age. Fast forward to now, there's too much TV. You don't know where to find the good stuff. You can't hold on to a show because it might be here today, gone tomorrow, and no one's getting paid enough.

We're in this moment where it's like TV's in a rut and it's going to be here for a while. So part of me is like, oh, well, maybe it's just this year that's off. It's like, no, we're in a valley and TV's not going to get better for a while. So I've been thinking a lot about how to enjoy an art form that I'm obsessed with when it's just in a rough patch and might be here for years. Like the very act of finding something good to watch on TV is hard now. It's rough.

It's rough. And then you think you find a good show, and before you know it, it's canceled and pulled off the freaking streaming platform. Because that's the thing. And it's not just, I mean, obviously the writer's strike is going on, and I want to say that this content desert is not happening because the writers are striking. It's happening because the studios are...

Are greedy. Are greedy. Yeah. But another example of that is like, oh, okay, maybe I'll use this as an opportunity to catch up on shows like Legendary on HBO Max or whatever it's called. And you can't because they've sold it. Yeah. So it's not even like, oh, this is a great opportunity to watch like older shows. Yeah. But can I slide in? Can I slide in? Yeah, slide in. Because –

I'm excited. We have a special episode coming up on Monday. I believe it's Juneteenth. Juneteenth. That's what Juneteenth means, Saeed. And I specifically am going to have a conversation with Roxane Gay about television, about everything you're worried about, Sam. Hopefully Roxane will come up with some answers for you.

Listen to that on Monday. And then before then, you can find my episode on Intuit all about this. It's called How Netflix Envy Broke TV. That's on my other show, Intuit, from Vulture Nerd Magazine. Well, before we get into the episode, we want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail and reached out to us on social media. We absolutely loved reading your messages. We have an advice mailbag episode coming up soon. So we do actually have some advice questions, I think, saved from last time that we weren't able to get into.

But if you have more questions, if you're like, wait a minute, Zach said it's halfway through the year. Oh, you know what I mean? This is a great time to send your advice questions to vibecheckatstitcher.com and we'll be getting to them in a future episode. And I'm pretty sure at least one of those questions, my answer will be divorce. Yes, it will be divorce. Let him go, honey. Let him go. But for now, let's jump in, shall we? Yes, let's do it.

All right, so first up, we want to talk about perception, how people are perceiving us in the world. And we have a great jumping off point that I didn't think would be happening, but it's happening. And let's just go there. So this past Sunday was the annual Tony Awards, which were almost canceled if you've been following the news due to the writer strike, which we talk a lot about here. But it happened and it was unscripted. Sidebar, speaking of unscripted.

Of all the folks to host it, the hardest working woman in the performing arts, Ariana DeBose. She hosted this show. They give her the hardest jobs. The Lord gives the biggest challenges to Ariana DeBose. She does not rest. We just saw her dancing around the baths a few months ago. Now she's hosting the Tonys with no script. No script. Can I say something? Say it. So her performance in West Side Story was incredible. Yes.

She made history with her Oscar win, as she should have, because wow, I'll be thinking about her in that yellow dress forever. As a queer person, as a person of color, proudly embracing and celebrating their identity, it's a little, now that I think about it, it's a little odd that Ariana DeBose wins that Oscar, makes history, and then immediately becomes like- A professional host. Yeah, the front person.

You know what I mean? Which is already kind of what one of the issues with representation is that instead of being celebrated for your craft, for the rigor of your performance, you're then turned into a spokesperson. It's a little weird. Just saying. A little weird. She went from winning an Oscar...

to becoming a full-time host in the way that someone like Steve Harvey feels like. Or Jimmy Kimmel. Or Jimmy Kimmel. It's weird. Anyway, not the story here. But no, it does tie into people, when they win awards, not being treated well. When they lose awards, they're not treated well either. So it does kind of tie together. Produce us, Zach. Produce us, mama. This is the energy we're going for. Because the energy of this night was...

Samuel L. Jackson lost to Tony. No one really expected him to win. I didn't know he was on the stage until I saw Tony. What was he in? It was the piano lesson. So his wife directed it. He's in it. They announced it at the Tonys last year, which were the Tonys I was able to be at where Strangely won. And it was a big deal. And it was really exciting because Broadway needs big stars to open back up. And Samuel L. Jackson is a huge star that does bring in. He will get butts in seats. He gets butts in seats.

And he did that. And the piano lesson has ran and it did a great run. Wonderful job, Samuel L. Jackson. But he lost the best acting category, which was expected. However, what people have really clung to is that he didn't, you know, have that typical, white people do it really well, that excited face that I lost. The fake smiley face.

It's just his face. It's just his face. He does his thing. They announce the winner. Everyone else fakes a smile and claps. He just has a face, which is allowed. But also it's Samuel L. Jackson. I don't know. I mean, this is all ridiculous. But also in particular, I'm like, I don't know. It's Samuel L. Jackson. He's not exactly known for being like a cheery, performative kind of person anyway. Did they expect him to cuss someone out?

It was bizarre, but it fits into a theme that we've been kind of touching on on the show and haven't just said full in a full-throated way, which is black celebrities are being mistreated when they lose, specifically if your name is Angela Bassett. So I know we talked a lot about her during the Oscar season, and we never did a big episode about her loss due to the world being on fire. But today we want to bring it all together and kind of have a more productive conversation about why are we so obsessed with black people losing and not losing in the ways that we expected? How does that tie into all of our lives? Well, let's clarify that.

Because it's not that we are obsessed with black celebrity losings. I would say white people, and particularly white people in media, producers, editors who generate content, like to identify and seize upon these moments where they feel that they can generate a controversy around a black person not behaving in a way they believe a person's supposed to behave in. And it's the same kind of players. It's always...

The New York Post or Page Six, those trolly news outlets that always do this. Zach, where do these headlines come from? The ones about his face. Entertainment Tonight, People, BuzzFeed, Fox News. And that's how we got here. You know, sometimes we at Vibe Check, me particularly, when we're in editorial meetings, I'll be like, what is the right talking about? What are they obsessing over? And I'll dabble over there. And this was front page Fox News. Front page Fox News. Front page. The fact that Samuel L. Jackson didn't smile when he lost an award.

You know, there's a lot of great research at Harvard Business School about this. And there's this book by Rutgers University history professor Deborah Gay White called, Ain't I a Woman? Female Slaves in the Black Plantation South. And she draws a line between how white people like to watch black people in public space go through pain. And if you don't perform it in the right way, then there's some retribution to be had through all of this. Yeah. Well, and there's also this like double bind. So on top of our faces being policed,

There's also this reality in which young black people are just thought to be older and more aggressive. So like at any age, we're encountering people's prejudices. I mean, we all saw for years how there'd be like a nine or 10 year old boy who was shot by white cops who then said, I thought he was grown.

Never are faces just seen as faces. They are vessels for people's fears. They are vessels for people's anxiety about what blacks represent. And you even see it with Samuel L. Jackson at the Tonys. Yeah, and that's what lit this up for me because obviously Angela Bassett and Samuel L. Jackson are fine. Listen, I feel like they have such a healthy relationship to celebrity. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even know that these controversies

happened. As soon as the Oscars were over and I no longer had to pretend to care about this stuff, I put my phone down and went to hang out with my fine-ass husband. Courtney B. Vance is a man. But what this did light up for me, and sure, there's, yeah, you're right, Sam, there's the realm of

police and state violence. The officer in Ferguson described teenager Michael Brown as a demon before he killed him, right? He ran at me like a demon, I think was part of the testimony. But also, just like in the workplace. And I'll just think of two examples. One, I've heard young Black people in media feel like they were being iced out or losing opportunities because they weren't enthusiastically engaging in Slack conversations about...

pop culture topics often that they weren't interested in. They were like, sorry, there's a Slack at our media company about a show like Friends, and I didn't watch Friends, or I haven't watched The Office, and everyone in there is typing a mile a minute. And so I just kind of wait until something comes up for me to join into. But now it's kind of being turned into, oh, you're kind of shy, or you're really not a part of the group. Maybe you're not a culture fit, which

People lose job opportunities off of not being a culture fit. Or another example, you know, to go to the smiling and facial expressions thing, I just think often in workplaces or wherever we're navigating, if, and I feel that sometimes as an author, and I notice other black authors deal with it, if you're not constantly smiling, if you're not willing to let strangers hug you. Or touch your body. If you're not willing to basically be their temporary best friend, their magical new hairdresser.

you're regarded as intimidating, cold, stuck up. Yes. And then even when people, and I mean white people, are trying to be helpful to black people in the office, it can be a bit too much. I remember when I was younger and just starting out in public radio, a lot of really well-intentioned white women wanted to mentor me, and I appreciated that. But more than one of them would kind of

In jest, but then in seriousness, start calling me their son and like, oh, I'm your mother. And it's like, no, you're not. My mother's a strong black woman and you are not my mother. But there's constantly this pattern, whether it be we look too intimidating or we look older than we actually are or people want to make us part of their fake work family. There's this desire to control that.

a black body to control a black body, control a black face, control what is thought of it and control how it's perceived and used. And I don't know what it takes to break that, but I see this through line throughout all of this.

People want to control black faces and black bodies. Listeners, if you've heard of this concept and you can think of the scholar who kind of developed this framework, please let me know. I'm going to keep looking myself. But there's a concept called friend to foe. When I learned about it, it was like particularly like black women in the workplace. I'm thinking like, I don't know, let's just I'm just throwing an idea out there. Just imagine being a black woman at a place like Condé Nast.

Where when you are more junior, you're supposed to be everyone's friend. You're everyone's little kind of like black doll is kind of the sense I get from this concept. And then the moment you begin to grow up in that work environment and you start raising your hands in meetings and you start wanting to lead projects and dare I say it, ask for a raise, ooh, the tables turn really fast. You're not the friend anymore. You're the foe. You're the foe, yeah.

that aren't we all a family here? All of that disappears. Yeah. Because when you're a friend, they can control you. But as soon as you have too much power and they can't control you, you're a foe. Yeah. One of the moments that really clarified this for me or really illuminated it rather was I was 16. I worked at a bucklery

I don't know if people know what a buckle is, but it's a retail store. I worked at a buckle. It's a jeans store. Good shoes and good jeans. And I really loved working in retail. Where Sam likes to talk to everybody, I like to talk to people if I have a purpose. And retail gives you a purpose all day where you're like, sell this thing. So I will sell this house. And I was really good at it. And there was an opening for assistant manager when I was 16, 17. And my boss was a black

guy. And I was like, oh, I'm a shoo-in. Like, I have the numbers, I have the relationship, all this stuff. And I was picked over for a white woman who's a similar age as me. And he pulled me aside and said, let me give you some advice. The reason why I couldn't pick you is that you're too good at your job and you never ask for help.

And they will not tolerate that in this company if you're not willing to ask for help and not outshine your bosses. He's like, so I don't think you're ready because you don't know that lesson yet. And I quit the job the next day. I was about to say, in retrospect, do you think, how do you feel about his decision? I,

I feel like I was, I'm still angry about it to this day. I think if I saw him on the street, I'd be mad, but it did give me insight as I moved into college in the professional world that when you are black in a workplace, you have to operate, you have to be nice, but not too overly nice. You can't ever show that you're angry. You have to be excellent, but not too excellent all the time. And I realized very quickly that we as black people can't just

be when i saw my like white colleagues at the retail store just be and get celebrated for it i couldn't do that well and this is the difference we've all had this experience we'll be in workplaces and offices in newsrooms

And there is that one white guy who is awful, maybe doesn't even shower, is an asshole to his colleagues, has weird vibes, yet he is a genius because all that matters are the numbers he generates. We're never given that. We can never just be the person who performs. We have to look good and smile and make everyone else feel comfortable while we do it.

And I see that with Samuel L. Jackson. This man gave a Tony caliber performance. Shouldn't that be enough? Once you get the nomination, nothing else is owed from him. And yet we expect him to even perform for us in defeat. And to be clear, he didn't do anything rude. He didn't roll his eyes. He just held his face. He didn't give more than he reasonably needed to give in that moment. Yeah.

Exactly. And it's also when you think about the context of why he arrived on Broadway, it was to help bring it back. So this man has helped lift an entire industry on his back. And now all of these editors, producers who choose news out of the Tonys have become fixated on it. He didn't lose in the right way, which is just an insane thing to say. I want to use this moment if we can to just talk to our listeners.

about dealing with these dynamics when you're in the workspace or in public spaces with other black people. I think this is a good moment for people listening to do kind of a self audit on the way they might treat people of color in their workspaces. - I'm so glad you said that, because we are all in this, which is to say a patriarchal white supremacist culture.

I think one of the issues with this dynamic is that I think it can be difficult as a black person, as a black queer person to talk about these kinds of experiences and be heard without

other people rushing in to say, well, I'm a woman, you don't know, you know, and I'm like, yes, absolutely. Like wherever we are on this awful tyrannical power totem, absolutely. Like the further you get away from being a wealthy cisgender white man in America, yeah, we're all going to be asked to perform in different ways. But I would ask our listeners to

If you're not a black person, just set aside yourself for a moment. I'm not asking you to like ignore just straight up, you know, misogyny, but also consider the ways in which maybe you have demanded more of your black coworkers than you would want demanded of you.

Totally. I also think it's a good moment for all of us to take a step back and realize the ways that work from home has probably helped with these problems for people of color. Oh, interesting. I have been working from home since the pandemic began, so over three years now. One of the things that I have found the most freeing

has been not having to perform visually and facially for colleagues. I love all of my colleagues that I worked with at NPR back in the day, but that NPR West office, it was also a studio where everyday guests and celebrities came in to tape their interviews. My cubicle was near the front desk. So whenever I was at my desk, I was expected to smile when they came in.

And so like leaving that behind for work from home life has been such a blessing. There's tons of writings about how black employees and black women especially have been freed by work from home life. So on top of just thinking about that, listeners, think about when you go back into the office, if you do, what you expect from your black colleagues and what of that is unfair. And I guess I would just add too, like if Sam, Zach, or Syed sitting at their desks

not smiling, not walking around the office, chumming it up with everybody leads to such a diminishment in the spirit of the office, then I think you need to think about why that's the case. Like if like an office having like a good jovial, productive vibe totally hinges on like the three black people that your company has hired, then y'all got bigger problems. Yeah.

There you go. That part. Anyway, well, no, listeners, please write in if you have your own experiences of being at work, no matter if you're black or not, or have other identities that you feel are not privileged within this hetero white patriarchal society. We'd love to hear from you and hear your tips. And share with us how you think about these things in the workspace and how you try to be equitable to your colleagues in this way. Do you have special life hacks or methods or practices that help you

when it comes to this kind of stuff, let us know. I would like to know. What's your process? All right. Well, with that, we're going to a quick break, but stay tuned. We'll be right back with some Padam. Padam, Padam. Tell your neighbor. All right, sisters, ladies, when you think of summer, what feels to you quintessentially summer? I have an answer, but I want to hear from y'all. Festivals. Festivals? Yes.

Music festivals, being outside. Music festivals, getting outside. I love them all the time. And I'm happy to now talk about what I think is the best summer music festival. It is called the Essence Festival of Culture, presented by Coca-Cola. It's back in New Orleans for its 29th year. And let me tell you, if you like music festivals, if you like concerts...

you gotta be there. This is the one. This is the one. This is the one. And it's been the one. The four-day event runs from June 29th through July 3rd. This year's Essence Festival is extra special as it includes a curated 50 years of hip-hop celebration. And they have

They have the most amazing people to help show those 50 years of hip hop and who has helped pioneer that. They got people like Miss Lauryn Hill, Missy Elliott, Megan Thee Stallion. They're all performing. And I just, to see those girls together is just iconic to a level I can't even believe. Just getting Lauryn Hill is iconic. Like, come on. The Essence Festival of Culture, presented by Coca-Cola, has something for everyone. It is truly a multi-generational experience.

The kiddos and the aunties and the youths and the elders. And the uncles are invited as well. Yes. Also, this is great. You can receive special rates on hotels when booking through essencefestival.com. So don't wait. Sign up for a weekend of culture. I like that. A weekend of culture at essencefestival.com.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands. I

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

Listeners, we're back. You are still listening to Vibe Check, and we're switching gears here. In the words of the old Negro spiritual, pa-dum, pa-dum. Not Negro spiritual. Not this white woman from Australia singing a spiritual. Sister Kylie said pa-dum, pa-dum. Sorry.

She's on fire. I want to set up this segment and I want to talk about a song of the summer that actually isn't a song of the summer. Any homosexuals hearing the sound of my voice or allies, by this point in June, you've probably heard a little song called Padam Padam by an artist who we love named Kylie Minogue.

I know.

This song has been declared by the gay powers that be to be the song of the summer, but I'm not sure it is. Everywhere I look on the internet, gays I know are posting about it. The place I work, Vulture, is writing articles about it. But here's the gag or the rub or whatever they call it these days.

This song hasn't charted yet. It hasn't even cracked the American Billboard Hot 100. Oh, wow. It hasn't even charted. It's been a mild hit on the dance charts, but on the main chart of like the top 100 songs in the country, it's not there. All right. So I want to use this weird conundrum of a song to talk about a pet peeve I've been having for a while.

The algorithm making people think that what they like is a thing everyone likes. And to support Sam's big claim, which I fully support and I'm excited for him to dive into, I only know about Kylie Minogue's Padom Padom as a lifelong lover of Kylie Minogue. I only know about it because people were tweeting the words Padom Padom. And I was like, what is this? And that's how a lot of us arrived there. Not because it's playing on the radio, but because tweets have happened. What is it with the gays this summer that,

declaring a song that's not a hit to be a hit and what is it about the algorithm that allows us to believe it so i have seen this song pop up in so many gays that i know in their socials in their instagram but i've never yet heard it on the radio is this an issue of the algorithm lying to our gay friends what's going on here this is going to be salty and sweet

First of all, when you say the gays, you actually mean the white gays. I wasn't going to go there. I wasn't going to go there. But fortunately for you, I live there. So when we say the gays, we mean the white gays. White gay men, in my opinion, generally have no taste. And when you have no taste...

as Martin Luther King Jr. once opined, a queen who won't stand for anything will fall for anything. No, that MLK pride edition. Here's my theory. Ride with me on this. Ride with me on this. My opinion is that white gays...

of the horse meat disco variety have no taste, which means they are pretty easily persuaded by the algorithm. This song is not the song of the summer. It's the song of your summer. It's the song of your algorithm summer. And this is where I broaden up. It's not just like a white gay thing. I think this is happening. You know, there was a point where,

Let's say a few months ago where if you asked me, I would have testified on the stand that I believed every single person in the continental U.S. had the lyrics of Beyonce's Cuff It memorized. That's not true. It's just because it was all over Saeed's algorithm. So, you know, I was constantly kind of being fed that idea. So I think that's what's happening.

But I have taste, and that's why Cuff It was my song of the summer. Clarifying point. Any white gay who listens to, likes, and subscribes to this podcast has a bunch of taste. So keep it up, baby. You're special. Yes, we love you. You're different. You're the exception. You're not like the other girls. We're never talking about you. Y'all look great. Anywho, Zach, what is your take on all of this?

This song was a Trojan horse for me to get some steam off. It really was. It was an entrance into therapy. This song, okay, so I'm conflicted because Kylie Minogue has been a queen of my life. Love her. True. Love her. And she's had hits for 30 years. I mean, her first hit was 1987, Locomotion. We all know that song. Yes. Even also going back to my senior year of high school, Can't Get You Out of My Head.

Iconic song. Permanent Bob. So my bigger issue with this song is to me, Kylie Minogue's discography is incredible. If you love like electro pop, if you love dance and all this, like, yeah, it's incredible. And she did an interview where she was like, honestly, she didn't even like the song. Well, she didn't say she didn't like the song. She said, I was surprised.

that this song has taken off and I haven't had a moment quite like this since Can't Get You Out of My Head. Yeah. And the other thing is, I don't know, it just feels like, this song feels like an interlude leading up to one of those songs or even like slow where it's just like everybody by the pool and all those beautiful bodies from the overhead shot. Yeah.

And what you should know about the song, and it's very different from Kylie, because Kylie has really broken boundaries in how she responds to electronica. She's really built the field out and made it really accessible that's allowed for Lady Gaga to really blow up. And she even says, Gaga has allowed me to be more relevant because she's expanded electronica. Now Beyonce's doing electronic dance music. She is a pioneer. Mm-hmm.

But that's kind of the reason why the song is doing well is because it hits a certain BPM at about 129 beats per minute, which if you go into like deep gay theory, there's a joke that has made that gay men's heartbeats are at about 129 beats per minute 'cause that's what dance music goes at and disco music hits that too. So to the defense of white gays who are dancing at Horse Me Disco, the song very easily mixes into every other nameless dance track that you are doing drugs to and that is why the song is popular.

It's not memorable. What it's being used for is to have some pleasure. - It's like sonic lubricant. - To their defense. - Yes. - This is a second Bump A Ketamine song. - I'm like... - I can't breathe.

Chantel, keep it in. Chantel, keep it in because we grown. And the girls that know, know. We grown, okay? Anywho, I guess I want to close up this conversation. Oh, my heart is racing. Okay.

When I've been thinking about this segment and this song, at first I was just like, oh, I'm a little annoyed. I keep seeing the memes of Padom Padom in my feed, but whatever, I'm just annoyed. But I have a larger issue with the algorithmification of all music. It's going to keep us from later on this summer declaring an actual song of the summer.

Yeah. Because there's no singularity around consumption right now. How will I actually know what is the song of the summer? If any random gay can make Padom Padom the song of their summer, what is it?

what will be mine and how will I know? And dear listener, that's how we arrived at a Padum Padum segment is because I'm always asking Sam every week, is it time? Can we do this on Christmas? Is it Christmas? He's like, not yet, not yet. But this week, Sam Sanders had a visceral response to me mentioning Padum Padum. And I think you're right. Is that like,

whether it's music or television, it feels like all art, and I'm putting that in quotations, is being produced for an algorithm and for SEO and for search and not for how we actually feel. And we're losing the water cooler aspect of all culture consumption. Like, we're not doing it together. That's true. We're not doing it together. Yeah, like the Billboard Hot 100 or whatever, it doesn't really line up with how most of us experience music. And to tell you just how much, guess what the number one song in the country is this week according to the Billboard Hot 100?

I know, and I'm not going to say it. Remember that country singer who got canceled for saying the N-word, Morgan Whelan? That's all I know about him. He has the number one song in the country. He has the number one song in the country. And it's been that way for like nine weeks.

Cancel culture, run amok. To go to another genre, as we were talking earlier about like television, I don't know, I feel like this particularly happens on Netflix shows, to be perfectly honest, where there will be like a line or a scene or something. It's like, why is this here? It doesn't quite fit. I feel like I've realized like, oh, this is for the screenshot. Like this is like some producer was like, we need like memeable moments.

And I think my issue with Padam Padam is like, it's fine as a song. And you're right. Like Zach, it would totally fit into like any DJ set on a Saturday night at like wherever. I'm not going to expose myself by naming names. But also I think part of the reason it's going viral is because that Padam Padam, it's perfect for TikTok. It's a

perfect for like however long those clips are and it's kind of like I've seen some footage actually on TikTok of people noticing identifying this where new artists Kylie Minogue is like a goddess compared to these people but like new artists will have like a song go like totally viral on TikTok and then they'll get out and perform at like a music festival and there are clips of crowds that are like dead silent and don't

know any of the words of the song until they get to the TikTok snippet. Wait, I have an example of this. This happened to me this week. The song Trance by Metro Boomin, Travis Scott, Young Thug. You hear a clip of it on TikTok everywhere. I finally listened to the whole song. That's the end. That's the last eight seconds of the song.

This is the thing, though. It's like this algorithmic nature of music discovery and consumption keeps us from actually finding an artist's best work. And to take it back to Kylie Minogue, everyone's sitting here talking about Padom Padom, but no one rocked her last album from 2020 called Disco. And it was amazing. It's amazing. It's a pure disco album from Kylie Minogue.

This album is called Disco. The first song is called Magic. It is queer heaven. It's what Padom Padom wishes it could be. This is my beef. The algorithm distracts us from the best stuff. Yeah.

And Kylie herself even like was so excited to release that record, similar to Lady Gaga's Chromatica. So excited to release Dua Lipa's album. So excited. But then the pandemic hit and it was all this great dance music and it just hit a wall. And now they're releasing new music and they're like, wait, you like this? Girl, do you hear what I heard a few years ago? And it's just confusing to everyone. So to wrap this segment, I guess it's like, what do we do with a problem like Padom Padom? I don't know. I think what I want to say to listeners is like,

Just because you and your 12 friends who live your coastal elite life like it's a sitcom on Instagram, just because y'all like a song doesn't mean it's a song of the summer. I would say expand your mind, free your mind, and the rest will follow.

And while you're out here, go check out Kylie's previous album, Disco. That's all I got. Closing thoughts from y'all. I feel sorry for so many people we have accidentally dragged. For you and your 12 friends that live your lives on Instagram. Like, it's a sitcom. But you know, we all have those friends who live their life like it's a sitcom. Dare I say it? This segment was like doing a hit of poppers. I just, you know. My God.

On that note, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, we're going to recommend some stuff for y'all to get your vibes right. It will not be ba-dum-ba-dum.

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Alright, my loves, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. And I have to say, as the spiritual auntie of the group text, I feel a little guilty for us doing an entire segment where we're shitting on something that people like.

We usually don't do that. We usually don't do that. It's live. So this week, our Vibe Rex, we decided to make an offering of some great kind of disco, electro dance songs that, you know, we're not saying are better than Padom Padom, but we're saying that if you like that song, you might also like these recommendations.

Yes, I like that framing of it. That is an extension of Padompadom. Padompadom is your gateway drug. These are the things that will keep you higher, longer, better, faster. Wow. And with that, Zach, would you like to get us started? I cannot wait. Listeners, you don't know this. We don't come up with the episode title. Chantel, our producer, does. I cannot wait to see what she picks for this week's episode title.

Zach, would you get us started? I will go first. So my pick is the new album by Jesse Ware called That Feels Good with two exclamation marks.

And it is a disco album. It's her first real disco album. The last one was disco-ish. This is like full, like dive deep. She famously began her career doing more R&B soul. She collaborated with Sampha and Subtract, which is a great DJ duo. So anyway, this album though is a return to 1970s disco. It is fun. I thought one song would be good, which is Free Yourself, which I already knew. It's a wonderful dance track that's been remixed by everyone. But I started listening to the whole album the other day and

It's all good Literally no skips And I would even consider Playing Hello Love At a wedding Like if you're looking For wedding songs Listen to Hello Love That you want to dance to It's all wonderful You have brought up weddings For the second time in a month On this show Zach What's going on here Because I just came back From a wedding And I'm supposed to be At a wedding next week It's wedding season Don't read too much into it Well you know Craig Called me last week Talking about rings Girl go away with this But

Sam, what's your recommendation? It's a two-part recommendation. Y'all know I love movies. I'm probably the bigger movie head of the group. I went to see the new Spider-Verse movie over the weekend. It's delicious. Go see it. The animation is on point. The plot works. It's a two-part recommendation.

They really get representation right in this film series. The whole movie is just phenomenal. But I also want to recommend a song from the soundtrack, which is executive produced by Metro Booming. There's a Metro Booming song with James Blake on this soundtrack called Hummingbird. It features prominently in the movie. It is amazing. I love James Blake singing The Phone Book.

I would have never thought that him working with a hardcore hip-hop producer like Metro Boomin would work, but it worked. She got this heavy Metro Boomin bass and these smooth James Blake vocals on top of it.

It's a bop. Zach, you know. I know, and I also, maybe we save this for the grab bag episode, but I have a funny story about me going on a date with James Blake in 2012. Wait, is James Blake gay? At first it was a hang, and then you said it was a date? It's gay. I asked him out to drinks randomly. I met him, and I was like, let's have drinks down the street, and we spent a whole evening together. So the reason why I'm talking about it is I wrote it

I wrote an essay about it that people can read if you want to skip ahead. Did he say to you? I won't say. Let's see if you want to hear the story. But it was a whole evening together. Many, many hours. A whole evening? Yeah. The song is called Hummingbird. James Blake wrote it for Zach Stafford. It's on the side of his soundtrack. Don't tell Jameela Jamil that. She will fight me. You know she will. She sure will. You know she will. My recommendation is the song Tongue by MNEK. I happened to see him. Sam, were you there when we were at Sunday Roast?

Oh, yeah, we did see him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was sitting at the table over. I love it. M.D.K. is so great. This is from M.D.K.'s album Language, but the song Tongue is so good, and there's a really good remix. The Jero Vandal remix, Jero Vandal remix. Jero Vandal, yeah. It's so good and so sexy. Okay. And, you know, I'd say it's that third Ketamine hit. It works the whole third with it.

of today's episode, which is I'm not going to smile for you, but I might twerk. Okay. Listeners. That's the episode title. That's the episode title. What are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's your vibe? Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

Listeners, listeners, listeners, thank you as always for tuning in to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend. A few of you sent in voice memos of yourself telling a friend to listen. We're going to play those very soon. So keep them coming. Love that energy. Yes. Yeah, we do. We do. And it's nice to hear your voices. Some of you should have a podcast. Consider. Very seriously. Huge thank you to our producer, Chantel.

A.K.A. Brandisha!

Okay, and we want to hear from y'all. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram at The Ferocity, at Zach Staff, and at Sam Sanders. Use the hashtag vibecheckpod. Stay tuned for our special episode on Monday with none other than Roxane Gay. Bye. Stitcher.

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