In Case of Emergency - Break Glass
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Greetings, greetings, greetings, ladies. Hey, girl. Hello. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford, and you are listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

We taped this show on Tuesdays, listeners, and let me say, I already feel a It Only Tuesday this week. It's a long week already. It really does. Yeah. It's a long week. A long month of a week. Well, this week on The Vibe Check, we're talking about the potential tick

I'm going to ask you to try to summarize the John Wick franchise. Oh, please do. Yeah, I can try. That'll be fun.

But before we get into all of that, I want to check in with my sisters who I've not seen in a week. And I haven't really talked to because we've all been, I've been busy on the road. But how are we doing? What have we been up to this week, Sam? In general, the sun is shining again in Los Angeles. So like my whole mood is brighter. Yeah.

So that's good. By the way, when I left to begin my travels, a tornado hit Los Angeles. So I really was thinking about you. Literally. From last week, I announced on this show that I had a little water damage in my house. I've gotten it fixed. It wasn't too bad. So in general, the vibes are good because the LA weather is agreeing with me. I mean, the news is really bad this week and we'll talk about it. And that's been rough. It always is rough when there are shootings. But...

At this homestead, we're okay. Good. And it's not leaking, because you were playing us the leaking sound. I sure was. They patched one leak, there was another leak, they patched that. I got a contractor who I'm like, we're good. I'm like, you come over whenever, buddy. Fix all the stuff. Good, good, good. And Saeed, how are we doing in Columbus today? You know, I learned a lot about myself yesterday. Yeah.

So here's the thing, and I want to make it clear for listeners who are like, wait, they're going to talk about John Wick? There was just another horrific mass shooting. Like, are they not? No, it's very much on our minds. The three of us had just finished our production meeting and settled on. We were excited to talk about Keanu Reeves and John Wick and why Keanu is special. It feels like, you know, as far as celebrities go. And then, of course, that's the thing. You walk out of the meeting, check your phone, and you're like, great, great.

And there's so much we don't know about this shooting in Nashville. I think we're going to try to step away from the specifics until we have anything of clarity to offer. Y'all don't need us to tell you that it's horrific, but it hit me hard. It threw me for a loop. But I've learned that sometimes I have such a transparent desire to

to feel my way out of what I'm feeling. One of the ways I cope when I'm just freaking out, just like really struggling is I try to eat nostalgia food.

And in this case, like peach cobbler is something that I associate like a lot of positive memories with. It just makes me feel safe and comforted and everything. So at one point yesterday evening, I realized that kind of without even thinking, it all happened in a blur. I realized that I had ordered, because y'all know I don't cook that much. I ordered peach cobbler from two different places. Two places.

Wow. So I can mix them together because one place is really good at the crust and the filling and another place uses peaches. You know what that's called, Saeed? That's called meal prep. Oh,

That's called meal prep. Okay. And we allow it. Apocalyptic meal prep. I was like, and only when I was mixing them in the same bowl, I was like, bitch, you have lost the plot. I have never, ever heard someone do this, ever. This is, have you done this before? Have you mixed your favorite things? No. Whoa. Man. That is wild. That is wild.

I once ordered some cookies and they weren't buttery enough for me. So I heated up some butter in my cast iron and sauteed the cookies in the butter until they got nice and crisp and buttery. So you ordered the cookies and then you got to cook the cookies. Yeah. All right. Yeah. This is some semi-homemade with Sandra Lee on Food Network. Kwanzaa cake. Let's make the Kwanzaa cake, y'all. Kwanzaa cake.

Google Sandra Lee Kwanzaa cake. Trust me. Oh, right. That was a moment. Wow. That was a blast from the past. Wow. But wait, say, did the mixing help? Oh, it did. It was excellent. It was great. And it helped. Yeah.

I realized I was also like, okay, maybe I should learn how to make peach cobbler. If you have recipes for peach cobbler that is very crusty, I just love the crust in peach cobbler. I'll take recommendations. You can email them to us. But yeah, I mean, all this is just, not to make light of, but I really, it was just one of those moments where with the nature of gun violence in this country, the people who actually have their hands on the levers of power were,

refuse to pull them, right? They're not taking action. And so I think as there's another shooting, another shooting, another shooting, I don't think it's unusual. I mean, I doubt everyone's doing my beach cobbler method, but I do think it is pretty relatable for us to have this sense of in-body panic, in-body distress and grief, and genuinely, we're

what are you supposed to do with it? Yeah. Yes. They can't ban assault rifles, yet they're talking this week about banning TikTok. Right. And it's just like, they have power when they want to have power. Yes. And to see them just choose to not empower themselves right now is really disheartening. I mean, the thing that's really infuriating in Tennessee is that like, they won't ban assault rifles. You literally have a...

a sitting congressperson there saying, there's nothing we can do this week about this. And yet they banned drag queens just the other day. So they can ban things and they do rise to the occasion when it fulfills their homophobic wet dreams that they're having. But when it comes to protecting children in schools, their only response is, well, we got to keep our guns, but you can homeschool your kids. And I'm sure this will get into this more with the TikTok ban conversation. But it's true. They're playing it fast.

I mean...

I'm okay. I'm very tired from all my travels. I was literally in New York for five hours yesterday for a meeting. After DC. After DC. So it was just like a wild, you know, typical me thing. And what was funny in peak me was, you know, I woke up in DC and my boyfriend was with me because we were at a wedding and-

I had to wake up, go to New York for a meeting, and then get to LA. And I still beat him to LA by flying from New York somehow. So we ran into each other at LAX, and that wasn't planned. It just so happened to go that way because he got delayed. Well, that's cute. It was very cute, but I'm like, God, I travel too much. The fact that I could get to New York, do meetings, and get to LA before he left UC to get to LA is pretty...

Pretty wild. I'm sure you're doing this, but please tell me you have points with some airline. Please. Oh, yeah. I am a Delta girl, and she wants to sponsor this show. We would all be very grateful. But, you know, in the midst of all this, what was wild and really heartbreaking, as per usual, is I was sitting at this lunch, and the folks I was meeting with were from London. And as we sat down, the shooting happened. And they were like, typical America, always shooting. And for me in that moment, I had to step away because the Covenant Christian Church shooting happened.

happened in a place I grew up in Green Hills. I lived there with my mom. I know this church. I have friends that went there. I have friends that have worked there. I have so many memories driving past this church and the school. And my aunt is texting me being like, everyone we know is safe. Everyone's good. And like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened. And it just, in this moment, you have like, you know, these people being like, oh, typical America. And then me sitting there being like, yeah, typical America, but this is in my town. Yeah.

Like this is like a reality for me. And I think that's kind of the thing that just due to the magnitude, like we're at 130 shootings just this year, is that all of us have that moment of like, it's in my school. Whether I had a friend who went to the school in Denver the other day that got shot. So it's just like it now happens so much that all of us are touched by it. And it's no longer an abstract thing. And it just feels like it's getting worse. Oh, yeah. I was out getting some food downtown with a friend at Grand Central Market.

on Sunday. It's this big kind of open-air market with tons of stalls and food. And someone drove by as we're eating outside and popped those little firecrackers that pop real quick, you know? They were just, you know, being foolish.

Half the folks out there thought it was bullets and they ducked. That's a prank that it's just, I get it. There was a time and place where maybe throwing like the little fire poppers or whatever was cute, but it's not, that's not, but just knowing that we all know the protocol, hearing stories of kids yesterday at this school, you know,

knowing how to duck and cover. It's just hardwired into us now to respond to this shit and not just stop this shit. It's troubling. I saw Tressie McMillan Cotton, who's an incredible writer and thinker,

was tweeting about... And this is such an American experience where she was tweeting about young people that she's spoken to who have been on LinkedIn since middle school. That's actually what she was intending to talk about, of just like the hustle culture and how it's already impacting them and everything that's going on. And then the news of the shooting broke and she was like, you know...

If the kids were all right, I would be. It's almost in a way not comforting to see young people freaking out, but she just pointed out that wouldn't it be actually really creepy if the kids were just totally like, oh, no, everything's fine. I think her point is I don't want to live in a country where young people are made to feel that this is acceptable. Yeah.

And that is the one thing that is giving me hope is that they understand that this violence is normalized, violently normalized, but that it still should not be acceptable. And I just – It's – yeah. And it's also just like in all the obvious contradictions that, you know, the response that we're going to see over the next few days is we should be arming teachers more. But yet we won't let them choose our kids better.

books. So it's just like, what is it? What do we want out of all these people? Like, you could have a gun, but you can't tell us what to read. You can't, like, go to school and feel safe so you can be homeschooled. It's just, all of it's contradictory. It's weird. And I just don't get the end game here beyond, you know, just ruining this all for all of us. So,

Anyway, that's where we're at today. That's where we're at today. We're not going to lie about it. Well, before we get into the rest of the episode, we want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail and reached out to us on social media. We do read your messages. We love them. Oh, wait. Okay. So, wait. This is actually something I wanted to bring out. So, one of your emails was very positive, very sweet. But they were like, love the show. It is so great. I did want to ask, why are y'all always calling each other sisters? Yeah.

And girls and ladies. Like, they were little. Do y'all have thoughts? It's intentional for me. I mean, I grew up in a religious environment where gender was very strict and rigid. And you had to perform a certain kind of gender that, for me, just didn't feel comfortable. I'm very much a cisgendered male.

But I always felt as if the limits of manhood that were shown to me in childhood were too restrictive. And so in adulthood, I like to personally play around with the idea of what names I get to call myself. And that is like a quiet little rejection of norms of masculinity. That's it for me. I don't know. What about y'all? Yeah.

I mean, for me, it's just cultural. I don't know a time where I wasn't like, hey, girl, to people or hey, ladies. I just, you know, I'm a black queer man that grew up in the South. You know, it's the language I know and in love. And yeah, I don't know. It just is who we are. And it also just lets people know kind of the tone of the show that we're a place. Like, it's kind of like a wink to people that know.

It's like, hey, we're those types of queer people. This is the type of conversation we're going to be having. But also, you are my sisters. I don't know. I find much more solidarity in sisterhood. Well, sisterhood is usually stronger than brotherhood. And so what we're also saying with this word is we have that depth of bond.

With your sisters. I don't know. Yeah, Saeed, what about you? No, yeah, I agree with so much of what both of you said. I think a lot of our values live in language. There is a reason why fascists are acting like the concept of pronouns, you know, they're being so obtuse. Because they understand that how we communicate says a lot about our character.

our values, what we're trying to project. It's kind of like the clothes you wear. And maybe every outfit you put on is not like a political statement. But I think generally speaking, the way you present yourself to the world over time begins to become a kind of rhetoric.

write a kind of statement. And I think that's certainly true, you know, even down to the micro level on language. And yeah, I think part of it is a signal to listeners, the kind of conversation they are being welcomed into. I think for many of us who grew up struggling to find our people, hearing those touches of, hey girl, you know, it was like an open...

It was a way to signal I'm safe here. This is someone who gets it. And maybe people who don't get it would overlook it. But those of us who have known what it means to look for an open door with a light next to it, there's appreciation. Also, it's fun.

Sisters, ladies, friends, girls, chicas, bonitas, all of it. I just thought that was actually, it seemed like a very honest question and it is something that's become just part of the DNA of the podcast. So I thought I would, you know, bring it to the girls to talk about. You can always ask us your questions and share your ideas at vibecheckatstitcher.com. But okay, girls, we got a lot to get into. Ooh, honey. Ooh, honey. Let's jump in, shall we? Yes, let's do it.

ladies chicas bonitas oh I love that tiktok oh wait since we're talking about tiktok do you feel bonita I feel bonita well you look bonita I love

I love that TikTok sound. Wait, please send this to me. I haven't seen it yet. Y'all know I get my TikToks five days late through Instagram. You do. You do. Which is relevant to this conversation. Yes, it is. So as we go into this TikTok conversation, let's be clear about where the three of us are on TikTok. I don't make TikToks, but I love TikToks. I watch TikToks.

at least an hour every day, I'm the one sending them to Zach and Sam knowing that Zach is looking at them, Sam is pretending to. Sometimes I look at them. I do. So here's the thing. I am primarily an Instagram user and then Twitter somewhat less Twitter with the eon of it all. But I do have the TikTok app.

I used to have an account, then I forgot to log in, so now I have another account. Oh, we saw it. Let us know. But I never use it. Okay. I have two group chats that will send me TikToks, this group chat and another one. And I will click a link and go watch it in TikTok if it's sent to me. Okay. But usually I'm getting TikToks through Instagram Reels. Which is a very elder thing of you. That's a very, like, elder person to watch TikTok. And I am.

Raise it. And then, Zach, is it fair to say you're kind of in the middle? Yeah, I'm in the middle. I'm constantly consuming them. You know, I'm like, Saeed's a person that sends them to me a lot. Our different Kimberly Drew and I are constantly sending TikToks to each other. I love it. I spend too much time on it. But I had like a moment this weekend where I got too, like that algorithm is too smart, which we're going to get into in this conversation, which is why people I think are afraid of it. They think it's taking a lot of information from you and storing a lot of data from you, which maybe it is.

But it sends me on my spirals. Like, let me look at one, like, World War III TikTok, and my whole algorithm becomes that. You and those damn nukes. I can't shake them. They love me. It just loves me. That content cycle loves me. So that's where we're at. Some of us are super users. Some of us are not super users, but we all think about TikTok. Well, and we're all affected by TikTok. We'll talk more about this, but it has really taken over the entertainment industry. Yeah.

It's how songs become hits. It's how comedians are discovered. It's a big deal for entertainment, right? With that all, though, the news of this week is that we're moving closer and closer to a potential TikTok ban here in the U.S.,

You know, for years, America has kind of been playing a game of chicken with this platform. Will it ban the app? Will it make the Chinese company that owns the app sell it? Donald Trump tried to ban TikTok a few years ago, and the courts stopped him. But in the last two weeks or so, this debate has gotten hot again.

After local and state governments, as well as colleges around the country, banned the app on their Wi-Fi networks or on their devices, Congress this week began to move forward a bill that would let Joe Biden bypass the courts and ban TikTok entirely.

This bill has bipartisan support. There's a good chance it might pass. You know, when Trump tried to ban TikTok in 2020, the court said you can't do it on free speech grounds. This bill would maybe override that, but still big questions.

The issues at play with why there's even a potential ban, we've kind of alluded to it, but security experts say that there's a good chance that ByteDance, the company that owns TikTok, is potentially sharing users' personal information with the Chinese government. TikTok has tried to speak to these concerns. They now work with the U.S. company Oracle Corporation to store the user data of folks here in the U.S., but the concerns still remain. I

I want to unpack all of this and whether or not a band is going to happen with all of it, but I've got to start by asking you two, how do you feel about the saga of it all? This has been going on now for like two or three years, and I'm kind of just like...

do something or do nothing, but I'm tired of hearing about this. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel, I mean, to, I guess, contextualize my, I have a weird role in all of this. You know ByteDance. I know ByteDance. I know TikTok very well. I know when TikTok was called Musical.ly. And the reason why is because Musical.ly, which is the origin of TikTok, if people remember, was the app where you lip-synced to songs and then eventually, you know, became TikTok. And that's why, like, a lot of us initially, it was like, oh, TikTok's that.

You dance app.

became the testing ground for how the U.S. government can use its different apparatuses to force Chinese investments out of the U.S. So Grindr was an American company that eventually became Chinese-owned, similar to TikTok, and we were sisters with the original TikTok. And what that means is that the corporations that own these companies were...

in Beijing, but they operate in the U.S. And security experts fear that when Chinese companies do this, it creates this backdoor for Xi Jinping to where under Chinese laws he can say, girl, bring me that data. I need it now. What people should know is that to our knowledge, China has never, ever, ever done this. But the fear is that one day, if China keeps playing a very good game of 3D chess, that they would then access that backdoor.

And Grindr was kind of the first test of that. Although four TikTok employees had...

have confessed previously to taking used information, but it's not clear that it went to the Chinese government. Yes, we know that you can access it remotely. We know all these things, but we don't know if Xi Jinping's people got this information, which was the same thing with Grindr. And I had to be involved in conversations that Grindr almost got hauled in front of Congress to have a conversation about how much access these companies have. And on that part, for me, Grindr was...

a very sensitive topic because that is the largest data set of queer people globally in China is not very supportive of queer people and what's really interesting about TikTok and Grindr is these apps have these huge Chinese backings but you can't even use them in China so there is the existential question of why is China so obsessed with owning this tech globally when they won't even let their own residents use it there you go Sight how are you feeling about this uh

One issue I have, to take it back to mass shootings in this country, it's been frustrating to see the momentum, the energy, the grandstanding that has been dedicated to TikTok when we haven't been able to see bipartisan support when it comes to things like water crises. Yeah.

Yep. Look at what's going on in Philadelphia right now. East Palestine as what, a month or so ago. Jackson, Mississippi, if you remember a few months ago, also had a water crisis. Flint's still going through it. Flint's not out of the woods yet. I'm like, that's an issue that I think should be pretty easy to get people on both sides of the aisle on. Obviously, gun violence, I would love to see. You know, and instead it's like,

TikTok is the thing I don't quite or health. You know, there's so many other issues. So that's one thing. The other thing is, I think I would be more on board for this bipartisan push if instead of it being about TikTok.

It was about basic privacy and basic internet rights. Like, that's what concerns me. This is a thing. So as soon as you peel back the top layers of this TikTok story, the larger issue is not what is TikTok taking from Americans. The larger issue is why does America have no viable real platform?

data privacy laws to protect consumers at all. That all companies have to respect. Yeah. You look to the EU, they have something called GDPR and it is some of the most rigorous protection of users' content and data online that exists. And it works just fine. A lot of other parts of the world are doing this as well. The question for me is like, forget about TikTok or

Why don't any of my apps have any of these protections for my data? And to that point, can I ask, I mean, I don't want to be naive. The Chinese government is very scary, very powerful, but I also feel like xenophobia feels like it's a part of what's going on. I don't know. It,

I'll say the vibes are off. Obviously, we need to think and take seriously issues like national security. The Chinese government, as we see, is cozying up to Russia and Putin more than ever before, right? However, to see the obsession over TikTok and the idea that

That the Chinese government having access to our data is unfathomably more terrifying than Facebook and Cambridge Analytica, than Elon and whatever the hell he's doing with Twitter. There's something off about the focusing on the Chinese government element. I even think about the way that America talks about China in all of this. Whenever I hear news media...

friends, even myself, talk about these kind of security threats from China, we can never name a person. We can barely name a company. There's this tendency for Americans and Westerners to see China as just this massive Chinese horde. Yes. And that is loaded with some suppositions. Long history. And assumptions of who those people are and what they do, right? And so there's a lot of...

bias in this entire conversation. Yeah. And we should put this TikTok conversation within the larger geopolitical strategies of the US government versus China right now. Biden has become very aggressive against China for, you know, very valid reasons around national security, but also an election is on the horizon. So to go hard on China does kind of rally a lot of people to come out and vote. And it is a very clear strategy that's been used before.

We see this TikTok ban arriving in Congress at the same time as the DOD is presenting the largest military budget ever in the history of the world that is about pushing against Russia and China. So the vibe is like, yeah, we should be thinking about data privacy and people's data being their own and companies not using it for nefarious reasons. But

With this in Congress and when you see these bipartisan efforts, you do need to do a vibe check of like, hmm, what is the larger strategy here of this Congress and of this presidency? And is it not about this company, but is it about larger world dominance? Because can I give an example? When people talk about the fear and everything, okay, Roombas, the company that owned Roombas, those cute little robot da-da-da-da-da-da-da that go all over your apartment cleaning up, that company I believe was bought by Amazon. Mm-hmm.

And Amazon now gives that data to police departments because what Roombas essentially are doing in addition to cleaning your apartment or home is they're mapping the layout of your apartment. They're casing the joints. Yes, they're casing the joints. They're creating a map that police departments have access to that data. So when they want to break into your home, Breonna Taylor, with an unjustified warrant, they already know the layout of your home. That's how

That's how data is used by U.S. companies. You know what I mean?

The model right now is the GDPR in the EU. It is the General Data Protection Regulation. And it's a framework for every country in the EU to protect its citizens. And it does a few things that seem big but are actually just kind of common sense. This law says that you are notified of what data is collected on you after you go to a website.

It means that visitors to websites have to consent to the information gathering by clicking on a button or some similar action. And if sites use your personal data, they have to let you know in a timely fashion. All of these sites have to be assessed over time to see if they're doing it right.

And it's like, you would think this is heavy, but it's just common sense. And if it's common sense, I just, I would much rather have that in America than keep doing this song and dance with TikTok that never actually ends. Yeah, I agree. And it's also, it speaks to the future that we do live in is that your digital identity

your digital kind of way in which you exist in these worlds, it should be protected. It is your human right. And these companies should not be allowed just because you clicked on a website to be able to mine everything about your behavior on there to build businesses around you, to sell it to the police departments, to do whatever with it, because that's not how you were treated when you walked down the street. People can't just take things from when you walk down the street and you're

how you move through the internet is your own agency and it's your own autonomy. So we should be protecting that digital bodily autonomy too, because these businesses make a ton of money. They sell your data. They sell your data. And I know this idea might be a little pie in the sky, but there are still people out here trying to convince me that Elon Musk is a genius. So yeah, I'm going to go for it. I think there should be something like maybe every five years, I think there should be like a data reset thing.

Because part of the issue is even if new policies come into place, a lot of our data is already out there. A lot of our data has been bought and sold and bought and sold again. You don't know where it is. So I would like the idea of every few years, like all the data just totally erased. You know what I mean? And there's like a fresh start to move forward from. I know that's probably impossible. I love it so much. And like, I know we have to go because Chantel is telling his rap, but

If you want to have a callback to the last election cycle, the one interesting thing that Andrew Yang talked about was universal basic income, which I do believe. And I think everyone should have access to capital so that they can live in this country. And how he was wanting to fund that was through a GDPR-like system to where every tech company

would have to pay a larger tax because they make so much money off you passively, off your data, that then would fund your universal basic income. Just because you're using the internet and people are making money off of you doesn't mean that they should take all the profits. You should share that profit.

So if you're interested in seeing how people kind of make purpose out of these GDPR-like laws, look at that universal basic income. Yeah. And also to close, I was going to use this moment to say, call your congressperson, ask for privacy reform. But actually what I want is a federal government that's allowed to be a federal government. In a functioning democracy, there would be a regulatory agency.

Right.

I want the FCC or the FTC or whatever agency that could help with this to be empowered enough to just do it. So I don't have to watch Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley grandstand over TikTok anymore. I don't even know how to use TikTok. I don't even want to use it. Listen, let the people who know how to do this fix this. Anywho, on that note,

Listeners, let us know how you're feeling about TikTok and privacy and all of these things. Email us, reach out. All right, more to come. Stay tuned.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

We're back and we're going to switch gears to John Wicketh. Over the weekend, John Wick Chapter 4.

John Wick Chapter 4 hit a franchise record of $73.5 million at the domestic box office and $137.5 million globally. Another stat I thought I'd share with y'all comes from The Morning Brew. Keanu Reeves speaks, who's obviously the lead in these movies. He speaks just 380 words in the most recent film.

And reportedly got paid $15 million for the film, which amounts to about $39,000 per word. And as someone who saw the movie this weekend quite happily, I'd say it's worth every inflation-addled penny. Loved it, loved it. Have y'all seen John Woodfield? So I was going last night to see it. This movie is so popular. The theater...

That I was going to go to. I got two blocks away and realized that showing was sold out. Wow. Okay. You didn't buy your tickets before leaving the house? Okay. Thank you. I heard that last night from somebody else. I often don't. I often don't. Listen, then the next theater we buy tickets to to try to go, the food options weren't as good. And basically we were like, this movie is two hours and 50 minutes long. Okay.

I cannot have the popcorn and old chicken strips for that long. Let's just go have dinner. So we had a nice dinner, and I'm going to see John Wick later. But I've seen all the other three, and baby, I love those movies. I love those movies. I love the ones just with him. There's one where Halle Berry shows up and starts doing stuff. One of my favorite recent performances from Halle. I love John Wick. And the beauty of this whole film series is that the premise is so simple. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait.

Because I believe Zach, our sister, has not seen any of the John Wick movies. Is that right? Is that right? That's why I had to put the brakes on you because Zach, would you please summarize the John Wick movies?

What do you think John Wick is? I don't... Like, this is just straight culture for me. And I have been shocked that you both love it so much. Because I just assumed it's one of the... Keanu, at this point, is queer coded. He's like honorary. Ooh, I hear it. He's honorary. We can debate it. We can debate it. He sounds really straight if his character only says 380 words in three hours. That's a very straight man. And we'll talk about this, but I do think the movies... I think the John Wick movies are heterosexual camp...

at its finest. Yes. There you go. It looks like... Okay, so what do you think the John Wick movies are about? Like, what's the gist? I'm going to assume that, like, in the first one, he lost...

a lover, a woman, and it broke his heart. Now he's on a revenge for four chapters. It's even simpler. There is a dead spouse involved, but the real reason he goes on this rampage, the real reason he has been shooting people up for three or four movies now is because somebody killed his dog. That's his dog? That's it? Okay, so here's the thing. He's created these films with the person who I believe was his stunt coordinator for the Matrix films,

They have a long working relationship together. I believe in 2001, Keanu Reeves' longtime girlfriend died tragically in a car accident, I believe. And so there is an interesting parallel, I think, between his personal life and his relationship with grief. He has spoken so beautifully about it in interviews. And then this film where

a former assassin who's out of the game. He falls in love with this wonderful woman. He's living the good life. He's not killing people. She dies tragically. And then she has, it hasn't arranged so that this cute little puppy is sent to him after her death. So it's not just, I mean, anyone killing a dog is like awful. It's a symbolic puppy. But it's very much like associated. Yes, it's a symbolic puppy. But-

This is very street culture. This is very like what America's like, protect your dogs and your women. I think when Halle Berry comes into the scene too, and correct me, Saeed. She got two dogs. Halle Berry's back because they got her dog. And then she goes off. This is wild. An action movie for four chapters? And listen, baby, I am there. I have watched these movies multiple times. I love them. I love the mythos. I think they're very cool, very campy. Would you go on a proverbial killing spree over Caesar? Absolutely not.

Well, no. And so this is the thing. And this is what I kind of wanted to talk about is the way in which everything is related in this episode. Yeah. That as much fun as I had sitting in the movie theater and weirdly, the greatest foe that John Wick sees in this most recent film is some stairs in Paris. I look forward to you, Sam, saying what I'm talking about. But literally twice in my viewing on Sunday, I screamed, not the stairs. And

Bull ball you, you know. So it's like one thing to like have this relationship and I'm having a good time, but we are still in America and we still have this relationship to violence and certainly guns. Another stat that I'm going to throw at you, a fan on Twitter counted and John Wick kills 140 people in the most recent installment, which brings this franchise total of kills to around 439.

Right. And obviously guns, sometimes it's karate and all the martial arts, but a lot of it's guns. And I just, I guess I wanted to talk about, have I lost my mind? Am I just like a full on hypocrite to enjoy these movies so much while also speaking full throated about how angry I am about gun violence? Well, this is what's so crazy when I was thinking about this yesterday. So we have this meeting where we're all going to talk about

how John Wick is just further proof that Keanu Reeves is one of the few unstoppable movie stars. Everyone loves him without fail. He's in the Dolly Parton realm is what we kind of decided. So we're going to have that conversation where we pivot and say, how do we talk about loving a film like John Wick in a week where there is actual gun violence in this country? And what I realized and what made me really kind of pause myself was

I kind of see Keanu Reeves, in spite of his John Wick of it all, as a literal nonviolent movie star.

It's so weird. His public persona outside of these films is just really, really, really nice guy. He goes out of his way to not be a creepy dude. And I was just like, what has America done to me? I will go watch this man shoot 439 people. But then in my mind, I think at home, he's literally Gandhi petting kittens all day. Right.

And I do feel that the films do a lot of, I guess, rhetorical work to frame him as still as kind of a passive. Even though that's the paradox of a character like him, right? Because he's reluctant. And in this most recent installment, like the fiercest foes he has to face don't want to fight him either because they're his friends. I do wonder if it was like a Grand Theft Auto movie.

kind of scenario. Like just someone who just can't wait to get out there and shoot him up. Maybe we would feel differently, but I do feel like that Keanu's public persona is very much infused into the John Wick. Yeah. Cause he's a reluctant, he's only doing this because there's no other option maybe. But is that a, is that me just tying myself in knots? Well, this is a central question of this whole conversation. I think it's like,

How can we as Americans hate gun violence, but still enjoy a popular culture that is infused with guns and violence? It's always there. It's not just John Wick, right, Zach? I agree. And that's why I was like so shocked that y'all liked John Wick. Okay.

Because it does bring up this kind of dichotomy of living in America where we thrive off these huge box office action movies, whether it's the Fast and Furious series where you have people shooting and using cars to destroy people or John Wick with guns. The Matrix was a huge banner franchise that was about us living in a matrix and just shooting people and dodging bullets. I mean, you look at The Matrix created by the Wachowskis, very liberal, you know.

trans activists. So it's like, how do we kind of separate this consumption with our politics? And like, what is the role of these films? Because, you know, it's similar to pornography and different types of kink where, you know, pornography can be a place where it's a safe, consensual place where you can have rules and logic and kind of boundaries and doing things that if you did them outside the context of like the

BDSM, you're not whipping people in the street. That is violence. But within the space of pornography, you can have that release. So I'm always fascinated by what do we get out of watching violent content? Because it doesn't mean it makes you violent itself. Because, Saeed, I don't think of you as a violent person.

Yeah, I mean, I was raised by a Buddhist mother. I wasn't allowed to play with water guns that looked realistic. One, because we were black, but also because my mom just didn't like guns. I don't enjoy, you know, I talk about video games on here. I don't enjoy playing video games where a gun is the primary weapon. That's not my thing. But you know what this actually calls to mind for me is,

Do you remember, I think it was during the first season of Abbott Elementary, Quinta Brunson, the show's creator and star, had to respond to someone on Twitter because they basically were like, the show is so great and it's reaching so many people and schools and education, it's so great. This is also an opportunity for you to take on gun violence and school shootings. And Quinta was like, absolutely not. These are child, what? And I think

to me it connects to John Wick. As anxious as I am, I always want to be thoughtful and go, well, just because you're having a good time doesn't mean there aren't some things you need to consider. It's also kind of like

As we've talked about, movies are not going to change our country's reality when it comes to... We can make an after-school special type, look at how horrible guns are movie every day for the rest of the year, and it's not going to save anyone's lives. So maybe I should just...

The entire world is watching movies full of gun violence. We're the only country that has this much gun violence, and it's just because we have more guns. Damn, that's a good point. John Wick is a global franchise. This movie plays everywhere. Yeah, like $137 million globally. It's not like every country that has extremely violent films has more gun violence. We just have more guns. I do, though, I am very interested in what's happening around what we think is permissible on screen and not.

So while we're seeing movies like John Wick get bloodier and gorier with more guns and more shooting, on the other end of the spectrum, there is a debate in Hollywood about how movies and TVs have lost sensuality and lost sexuality. Marvel films are sexless. I had a conversation on my other show, Intuit, with a critic who said, yeah, you're seeing less good sex on screen. So we have an American popular culture that still glorifies sex

to the extreme and is actually scared of sex. That's weird. And horror movies certainly aren't holding back. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. I don't know if this conversation ends with answers. No, we don't have answers. It's something we've been thinking about. I don't know. But there is something there. I mean, it did occur to me. I realized the original John Wick movie, because we're now on the fourth installment, came out in 2014. And

And I do wonder, I was like, oh, maybe, you know, part of it is as we've become more and more entrenched in the reality of mass shootings in this country since 2014. Obviously, there had already been far too many shootings at that point as well. But it does feel like a very different context now. So maybe it's.

Maybe part of what we're talking about is like it's starting to like hit us a little differently. We're just like, oh, damn, you know? Yeah, I agree with that. And, you know, there is also the more simpler version of this is that, you know, people love heroes. And we live in a world in which it's not very clear like who's good, who's bad.

what's the motivation of everything, where we're going. And movies like John Wick, I haven't seen, have very simple plots where this person went through something, now they go to go find justice and they get justice. And people just, they don't see that. I mean, look at Trump's trials. Exactly. It's TikTok mess. Like everything's confusing, but these movies are very simple and have a very hero's art. And there's a moral clarity.

John Wick is a good guy. Keanu Reeves is a good guy. And whatever he does, it was for the right reasons. I think we want that in moments of uncertainty. We as individuals often feel so helpless, but that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. So maybe it's like we start kind of like you're saying with film, like with rape culture and all these other issues regarding gender, sex, and power. We're not seeing a lot of real change. So then we go to the realm of entertainment.

And it's like we're almost like looking to these movies and TV shows to adjudicate issues that need to be adjudicated actually in the realms of reality. Yeah. I think a lot of this shit ties back to like the puritanical roots of American popular culture.

we've always been a country that's kind of afraid of sex collectively but actually has no qualms about the pervasive nature of violence that is in our dna it's really weird to me and but it is who we are yeah it is who we are sorry to end on a downer listeners let us know how you're enjoying john wick i guess i would say listen if you already like the john wick movies you will enjoy this fourth one i really did it's a hoot it's very very good it's very entertaining but um

We'll leave it there for now. We've got to take a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, we'll get to our recommendations.

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at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden. All right, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right or throwing us off this week. And, you know, I, because I'm struggling, because I'm so tired, I will begin, just to get this off my chest, the Gwyneth Paltrow trial has kept me alive for a week. I see snippets. It's wow. It is fantastic.

So good. If you're not familiar with this, Gwendolyn Paltrow is currently dealing with a civil trial where she was sued by a doctor. They got into a ski accident in 2016. And he's saying she hit him. And now she's suing him for damages saying he hit her. And also he has brought damages into her life. And it is the most rich people gone wild trial I've ever seen in my life. And I love it. Question for you. I've never skied.

Not my ministry. But isn't the bargain you make with yourself and with others when you hit the ski slopes is that accidents will happen? Right. And unless they were like trying to hit you, charge it to the game. Yeah. Unless they were like saying, I'm going to hit you and then laugh while you're like, how does that even?

I mean, that's why it's like this is a civil trial. It's not a criminal trial. But even still, I don't know. But if you do hit someone on ski slopes, I mean, it's not the burden of the resort. It's like these two people. It's like if you trip somebody on accident. I mean, this is a gray zone. This is why these things go to trial. Also, the petty of it all. She could have settled. She's rich.

She wants to fight. Yes, because he's asking for $300,000 and she thinks, we're assuming, that he wants to shake her down and kind of use her celebrity against her. And she said, no girl, I'm fighting this. So she has arrived in the most beautiful sweaters, the most beautiful outfits. She has created like a star-struck-ness with the trial itself around even the prosecutor is like so in love with her. It's very obvious. Hearing them talk to each other across the stands.

I'm like, what is this? She drilled into her about her relationship to Taylor Swift. Are they actually good friends or not good friends? I wish listeners could see my stank face. I don't like Gwyneth Paltrow. I don't like her. I don't trust her. Something is off. I don't...

But then you're going to love this little tidbit. So at one point, the prosecutor who actually loves Gwyneth was like, you're countersuing, I think, for a dollar? And she's like, yes. And then the prosecutor's like, do you want the dollar? And she's like, no, I actually want the dollar. I want the dollar. And you're like, Gwyneth, what?

Well, it's also because her dollar is tied to her legal fees. So it's like dollar plus legal fees. Her legal fees are probably like $100,000. So she's like, yeah, I want you to pay for all of this. I just don't get why she doesn't just give that man $300,000 and move on. I mean, let's watch the trial. I have a whole theory about it. And I think it's part of a larger strategy, which is Gwyneth Paltrow. She's constantly brand building. It's really great for a celebrity. Saeed, what's keeping your vibes right this week?

Well, while I was eating my peach cobbler, the movie Puss in Boots, The Last Wish, I intentionally have held off on watching this movie because I knew I was going to like it. You know I like these kind of animated adventure movies, you know, drawing from fairy tales, like Made in a Lab for Saeed Jones. I held off on watching it because I was like, there's going to be a day.

When shit is so crazy that you're going to need to break glass in case of emergency and watch that movie to literally get your vibe right. And yesterday indeed was that day. Whoa, it is. It's not just like good by like animated. It is excellent. This is an excellent movie. There is a moment where a character has a panic.

panic attack is, I guess, the only way I can kind of describe it. And another character shows up to comfort him. And it was so moving. I had to hit pause and text Sam. You texted it to me. It was powerful. Wow. What I love about a great animated film

is I think, particularly in American culture, other cultures do not have the same relationship to animated work. I'm thinking of Japanese culture in particular. But in American culture, we devalue, we underestimate the power of storytelling the moment it's animated. We think it's for kids. We think it's low art. And as a result of that...

You can go into some of these animated projects and really be blown away. And what I love that Sam said, he was like, I know it's about animated, but it is very human. These are humans. They were doing human things. Yeah. It was beautiful. It's about relationships and marriage and really mortality. And I was like shook. Also, it has one of the best antagonists. I will say it. So I'm going to say it on this podcast. I've already said in my Instagram stories. I saw this.

Puss in Boots, The Last Wish is better than Tar. I was more moved by Puss in Boots than I was by Tar. It had a better antagonist than Tar. That wolf, that wolf is better and more interesting and more compelling and has more character development, bloop, bloop, bloop, than Lydia Tar. And it has more black people. Boom. Oh!

But, Saeed, is it Minions level? For me, Minions is pinnacle. That's like the next break glass. Okay. I mean, my takeaway from this, beyond your shade, Jatar, and that ongoing war we're having about the movie, is that we all should have a piece of break the glass content in our

life. I got it from you when you were saying like when I gift friends like a fancy bottle of champagne and I tell them to wait and keep that's a really great you've given me Zach so many great ideas to keep and no yeah so I think it's like if there is and I think a movie is like a great thing I wouldn't tell people like don't listen to the next Beyonce album until a rough day but

No, if there's a movie, particularly like a sequel or something in a franchise, you know you're just going to really delight in, maybe save it for a rainy day. I love that. And for listeners, for context, I'm like, if I ever give you a nice bottle of champagne or anything like that, I will say to you, do not save this for

you know, New Year's Eve, birthday, like those days will have something special. Save this for like a Tuesday when you're down and you just need to feel special. Like that's when you, you kind of tap into those resources. So yeah, but now I'm going to apply my own logic around drinking. It's great. Wink, wink, two movies now because I would like a break the glass movie. Yeah.

Don't come for me, tarnation. You don't want it anyway. Not tarnation. Tarnation. I'm not afraid of y'all. Tarnation. I'm not afraid of y'all. Well, Sam, what is helping keep your vibes right this week? I was going to recommend a reality show, but now I'm going to recommend one of my break the glass songs. This is a song that I always go back to in the car when I need a burst of joy and like scream singing. Okay.

This artist, her name is Caroline Rose. She has a new album out this week that I'm listening to and loving, but her last album from like 2020, it's called Superstar. And there's a song on the album called Do You Think We'll Last Forever? Yeah.

And it is just one of the most infectious power pop songs I've heard in the last several years. And I kid you not, you play this song, and by the end, your fist is in the air and you're screaming with her. It's all about falling in love. That's so cathartic.

Yeah, it's all about falling in love and having those questions we all have, like, will this last? Will it make it? I'm really into you right now, but will it make it? And you think the song is over, but the last 45 seconds go to this other, even more euphoric place. And she screams, sings, "'You know I worship you night and day. Oh, just tell me you feel the same.'"

And that's how the song ends. I can't even go listen to this song. That's it. Okay. That's all. It's called Do You Think Will Last Forever? It's by Caroline Rose from her 2020 album Superstar. It's good. That's it. Okay.

I really like these recommendations because, I mean, I always enjoy our recommendations and I'll end up listening to Sam's music recs for the rest of the week. But it feels like these three pieces of recommendations really have been helping us hold on. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? It's not just like, here's an interesting piece of pop culture where we're like, listen, Gwyneth Paltrow TikToks are the only thing keeping our sister Zach.

Oxygen. Oxygen to my brain. Yeah. Have I ever played this song 10 times in a row real loud? No. Maybe. Yes. And that's fine.

All right. Well, listeners, not only what's keeping your vibe right, but also what's your break the glass piece of content? What's the thing that you save for a rainy day? I'd love to know. And I'd love to compile some of these because the TV recs people gave me that one day when I was traveling were really great. So you guys have good taste. So share with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and you want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend. Give us five stars. I think it's really cute when every episode comes out and people let us know the little moments and the little Instagram posts y'all do. It's really sweet. We appreciate it. We appreciate it. Speaking of folks we appreciate, huge thank you to our producer,

Long-suffering Chantel. Y'all got a rap holder. We love you and we mean it. Thanks to our engineer, Brendan Burns, and to Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And as always, we want to hear from you. So don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And you can keep in touch with us on Instagram at atzackstaff, at Sam Sanders, and at TheFerocity.com.

And use the hashtag VibeCheckPod everywhere. We check it everywhere. So with that, stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. See you then. Bye. Bye. Say bye, Sam. Oh, shit. Sorry. I got to email. Bye. Bye. Leave it in. Leave it in. Stitcher. What kind of day is it? It's a white claw day.

Wouldn't it be nice if we were always in control of the when and where in our lives? Yes, I'll get you those figures today. Mom, check it out. I learned a new song.

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