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This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

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Welcome, ladies. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Safford. And you are listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

And what a week. We have so, so, so, so much to talk about. There's violence around this country. There is a very strange economy that may or may not be in a recession. We'll talk about that. And we're also going to, because we can, talk about one Todrick Hall and his new reality show, The Real Friends of WeHo. And let me tell you something. I'm so ready to

drag that. We got a few emails. A few people literally were like, are you going to talk about...

The real friends of WeHo. People have gotten us a lot of notes. I was wildly at a party with one of the cast members and couldn't look at them in their face the day it came out. But I'm also excited to talk with you all because I think we three can open it up to talk about why people care so much. Because I think I have a theory and it comes from my boyfriend who fed it to me this morning. You know, that'll be in the second part of the show. But like, have your poppers ready. Take a good whiff.

Relax. All right. All right. All right. Before we get into all of those topics for this week's episode, I want to check in with my sisters. How are y'all feeling? What is your vibe? Saeed, kick us off. You know, I feel like this does happen every January, usually about the second or third week.

Life, in fact, is back in motion, and that includes news and politics and culture. And there's that moment where you're like, oh my God, it is only January, and we are already breathless. I mean, waking up this morning in particular, and I often start my morning listening to NPR, and that's kind of how I wake myself up, and there was...

A very familiar American moment where they're describing the fallout of a mass shooting in California. And I'm listening for several seconds before I realize I'm thinking they're talking about another shooting, right? So on the eve of the Lunar New Year in Monterey, California, there was a tragic, terrifying shooting that I believe has happened.

claimed 11 lives and many people were injured. That person tried to go to another location. And then now there's been another shooting at two farms, nurseries in Half Moon Bay, California. Both of these particular shootings seem to have directly impacted Asian Americans and those communities. You know, and it's just, I mean, it's a lunar new year. This is a time for celebration, in particular, a time of renewal and, and,

And deep community, you know, and I just, gosh, my heart goes out to them. But again, it's like this is such an American, a contemporary American phenomenon where I'm trying to learn about and observe and process these two particular incidents. And then right before I go to bed, I believe there was a shooting of some kind in Des Moines, Iowa. You know, you can't keep up. You can't keep up. The reminder for me in this week of horrible violence in California and across the country is,

is that none of us are immune from this or safe from this. It goes into every neighborhood, every state, every part of the country. It is an epidemic in all of our communities. And, you know, I'm already waiting now for the moment in which America and American news media kind of just moves on to the next story. It's really sad. You know, that shooting here in California, I had friends that were out there celebrating, you know, and it's like...

It's all around us. And it's really, I feel the most hopeless on like day three or day four when you realize everyone's moving on. It's really sad. And to that point, that's why gun violence in America is seen mostly by a lot of scholars as a public health crisis, not because of the immediate impact of a bullet killing someone or hurting someone, but in that echo that happens afterwards, that wake that happens.

and there's an amazing op-ed in the LA Times this morning by forgive me James but his name is James Zarza Diaz he's a professor and he writes a piece called Why the Monterey Park Shooting Feels Like an Attack on Asian Americans and the piece is about you know while this was not done by a white person or for what we know it's not a hate crime label yet it

It feels like it's part of this continued attack on Asian Americans, even if it's by an Asian American. And that's the thing about gun violence is that it ripples through our lives and it makes that day three feel like, okay, when's the next one? When's the next one? I'm going to live in this always. So it's just really hard and heavy. It's rough. Our sympathy and prayers and thoughts are with all those affected. And, uh, I'm just hoping for change. Well, and I would say too, you know, our rage is with you too. I,

I've been thinking there's a line of a Terrence Hayes poem, God bless the rage in us. I'm angry. It's like the sympathy and the heartbreak, but I also think it's important to acknowledge our anger that this violence happens.

Yeah. It's horrible. Zach, what's your vibe? From what I understand, you were just at one Sundance Film Festival. Which I thought was in Colorado. All this time, I thought Sundance took place in Colorado. All I know is Sundance happens where I can't get to it. Sundance is in Park City, Utah, right outside of Salt Lake City. Okay. I have been here for a week.

My voice is almost gone. So you're going to hear it crack today. And this was the first Sundance back since the pandemic began in 2020. And it was incredible. We get to see a lot of the films that are going to get bought and put on Netflix and HBO. So it's kind of like licking into a crystal ball.

So I feel like I could do a whole episode and my rec will be a film that I think will be one of the most important films to come out of Sundance this year. Okay. But what I will say has been so shocking. Hollywood is a bubble. I have been inside of Sundance. I did not know anything happening in the world. I did not find out about shootings and everything else. Yeah, you were like, what shooting?

Yes. And what I have to say right now is it would not have been possible unless Chase Chagio from the ACLU, one of the most prominent trans lawyers in the world, text me on Saturday for me to find out that Utah this week is going to be voting on anti-trans legislation that will be some of the most aggressive in this country. And it was so sad to hear this from Chase, who was in New York, telling me this because I'm in Utah, down the street from the Capitol, and no one at Sundance was talking about it.

or legislation attacking trans people. So I don't know. I'm just in this space right now. I'm tired, but also like, how do we pop this bubble with an entertainment and connect these dots for people that like our lives that we're living outside of the theater are under attack. So I don't know. It's really complicated. And can I say, I mean, film festivals obviously seem very important, you know, particularly for, you know, emerging artists. You said, sure they exist, girl. But it's,

But it just feels bizarre to me. These film festivals do feel like these very elite, and it's like everyone's getting excited. And it'll be so weird. You're watching movie critics and stuff. People tweet about films and standing ovations. And then you're like, oh, okay, this sounds great. When can I see it? And they're like, ah, three or four years. It's weird. Can you explain-

It is so weird. It feels like a different reality. And it seems like it felt that way while you were there too. Oh, it is a completely different reality. So for you to understand the economics or kind of the structural purposes of a festival, Sundance specifically, films that were made independently by companies like A24, which today leads the Oscars with everything everywhere all at once. They created that. So A24 comes in with all of their films that they're trying to sell to studios or distributors. So the deals are made there.

So deals. And literally you watch like what happens is you go to a movie and if you are friends with the film team, you then go to a party afterwards. And at that party, the deals are made. People are making offers around you. So it's a buying and selling. It's like being in a car dealership. So it's a party. Like people are drinking and music is playing. But then there's also a deal making situation. What? What?

Yep. Deals are being made. Actors are getting drunk. Press are there. It's the weirdest, most incestuous kind of thing that you can be in. It's a really odd, not real space. It's like you're going to the car dealership and everyone's driving the cars, making the cars. You get to see like the engineers that made the cars. It's really weird, but it's a fun space. Okay. Did you have fun? The most fun. I want to go to bed forever now. Sam, how are you doing? You know, I'm feeling good.

Like, I just have big thoughts on the entertainment industry this week. You know, so Sundance happened. There's all the buzz around that. The Oscar nominations were announced today as we taped the show. And they were crazy. I was so happy to see everything, everywhere, all at once. Get a bunch of nominations. Happy for Michelle Yeoh becoming the first Asian woman to get a nomination for Best Lead Actress. Happy for Brian Tyree Henry to get his nomination. I love that, man. The surprise. But also, the Oscars per always are just weird. Yeah.

Honor to Armis got a nomination for Best Actress for Blonde. And on the same day, Blonde, the movie, leads nominations for The Razzies, which honor the worst in film. You know, the Oscars are always kind of annoying. And so I'm just in that space where even as I'm excited about the people I like getting nominations, I'm like, some of these nominations are off.

And I'm thinking about the Oscars in the industry and how it's doing this week and the same week in which I interviewed a show creator who had one of her shows pulled off of HBO Max. Half of the creation team behind a show called The Gordita Chronicles. She talked to me this week for Into It, my other show. It's going to be in your feeds on Thursday.

But she was talking about how her show and other shows, even in this golden age of streaming, are being ripped from streaming platforms after being canceled after just one season. And so we're entering this season where Hollywood and the entire entertainment industry is in this Oscar moment now where they're performing prestige, performing wealth, performing opulence. But in actuality, the industry is in some dire straits right now. There aren't enough people watching enough things.

And it just feels like we're in a moment of juxtaposition with all that in Hollywood. So I'm feeling juxtaposed. Can I say that? Feeling juxtaposed. Feeling juxtaposed. I love that. So.

So I'll be watching. I'll be, you know, faking the funk in this Oscar season. But it all feels like a little bit of a lie because they ain't got the shit together right now. Anywho. Yeah, that's how I feel. That's how I feel. Before we get into this episode, we want to thank all of you who have sent us fan mail. We do read it and we do love it so, so much and have reached out to us on social media. I'm currently obsessed with the campaigns people are launching to get their friends to listen to the show. That has been a

Really, really fun. Yes, yes, yes. Cameron Caskey himself, a friend of the show, has been even changing his social media profile, his bios, to Vibe Check Advertiser, which is very, very cute. Way to commit. Way to commit. Very committing. But I want to read one letter from Courtney D., who writes...

Wanted to pass along a note of thanks for your wonderful show. Your show has been such a ray of light and source of joy for me. The perfect mix of humor, pop culture, moving topics, advice, serious discussions, perspective, it's all there. It's like being invited to a conversation with three of the coolest people you've ever met.

Can't say enough good things. Amazing, amazing work. All the gold stars. Well, thank you, Courtney. Thank you so much. You are so sweet. You are one of the coolest people we've heard from. So thank you. Please reach out to us again. And if you also want to reach out to us, remember our email is vibecheckatstitcher.com. So send us a note. And with that, shall we jump into the show, ladies? Absolutely. Let's go. Hit the music. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

All right, so to kick things off, look, you don't need me to tell you about the layoffs, but just for the month of January, again, we're just a few weeks into this new year. Companies like Google, Microsoft, Amazon, DirecTV, Salesforce, Vimeo. I think the other day I told- Vox, who employs me. Yeah, I was like, girl, Sam, you okay?

You know, I think I saw Spotify announced layoff. Listen, it's wild. Let's go to the end of last year, right? DoorDash, Meta, Twitter, Lyft, Netflix. Every time I blink, Elon lays somebody off and then tries to hire them again. And he ain't even paying the rent, and he's not paying the janitors. It's a mess. I thought they were selling furniture. And so...

At a minimum, right, across tech and media, tens of thousands of people have been laid off in just the last couple of months. Companies that aren't doing that at a minimum are announcing hiring freezes. But also, if we go beyond jobs, I mean, if you've gone grocery shopping and looked at the price of eggs,

I saw recently parents were struggling to find children's Tylenol on the shelves because it's out of stock because demand is so high and the companies can't get enough to the stores. My rent here in Columbus, I just signed a lease for the next year, and they were like, it's going up 20%. I was like, well, damn. They can do that? Yeah. And they're like, it's because of inflation. And I'm like, wait a minute.

Girl, inflation is not 20%. I'm no graduate of the Harvard Business School, but this sounds like some bullshit, you know? And so the point is, it feels weird, right? You know, so are we in a cultural moment where we're not tech?

Yeah.

A recession is considered a prolonged economic downturn that broadly affects the economy and crucially typically lasts two quarters or more. The National Bureau of Economic Research, which is the arbiter of recessions, considers how deep the slowdown is, how wide it is, and how long it lasts. They're the ones who say we are in a recession.

However, if any factor is severe enough, we can declare a recession, which I think is really interesting. And so, you know, of course...

the three of us vividly remember the massive recession of 2008. I mean, it was devastating and its effects were really long lasting. We were briefly in a technical recession in 2020 because of the pandemic. But I guess part of this conversation is realizing that the definitions and the technical terms and the government can decide we're in a recession even, you know what I mean? But I do want to say it's very hard to decide right now.

So there's been a simmering discussion, if not debate, ever since the pandemic began over how the metrics to measure things like a recession for America should shift. So you recall last year we saw the Biden White House actually push back against economists and pundits who were saying we're in a recession.

They'd say, wait, we're in a different moment now. The pandemic screwed up the entire economy. And also look at low unemployment numbers, like under 4%. Look at gas prices falling. Look at consumer spending staying solid.

So it did seem a bit shady when Joe Biden was like, actually no recession, but maybe he kind of has a point. We have not seen the American economy shift this much this quickly since I would argue the last world war, right? We saw millions of American workers change how they work.

They're working at home now. We have seen entire corporations have to shift how they do business. We saw the supply chain altered probably for years to come. We are in a weird moment. So I do hear the argument that Joe Biden makes that like, well, maybe the metrics should change.

I don't want to give him too much credit, and I do want to say if enough people feel bad about the economy, it might as well be a recession. But I will say it's a very hard time to measure that right now. Yeah, like in a recent poll of economics, the World Economic Forum found that nearly two-thirds of respondents believe there will be a recession.

Yeah, yeah.

which has very much been a part of this recession and jobs layoff conversation. So before the layoffs really hit, we saw CEOs saying, bring your ass back to work. You need to get here. Get here now. You need to work at this office if you're going to have this job. Goldman Sachs has been doing layoffs. TikTok is today threatening to lay off any employee who doesn't actually... TikTok.

is going to lay off employees or fire them if they don't actually live in the residence that they labeled on their application when they were hired, which is close to their office. So you're seeing, there's lots of theories on TikTok that people think the recession is, you know, a condemnation of the work-from-home lifestyle. CEOs want to be like, fire those people that are working from home. Now outsource those jobs globally. But what I'm really focused on in this is that for the first time in years, I've heard my friends talk about how they enjoy their work-life balance.

that the pandemic allowed them to take a break after we got through that first year, which was like a burnout year. We've learned how to have boundaries. We've learned that like not sitting at a desk for eight hours a day doesn't mean you're not productive at work. And just as people are getting better at those boundaries at work, we're seeing them lose their jobs. And I think that's really messing with people's heads because they're like, I was taking care of me. And when I took care of me, capitalism said, you have no more job, goodbye, get out. Well, and then a lot of these companies doing these big layoffs, they're actually seeing record profits

And their executives and CEOs are seeing record payouts. And shareholders are doing extremely well also. And so my question here, it's like if we're entering a recession and we're seeing these big layoffs –

Who is the recession actually for? The very top of these corporations, they're going to make more money. The shareholders will make more money. It's people below those lines that are being hurt. And I think a lot of what's happening here is that the entire focus of corporations and who they think they serve has just shifted over the last several decades. There's a concept in economics called shareholder primacy, which took root really in America in the 80s.

And this is a logic that a company that is publicly traded is only beholden to its shareholders. And so to maximize profit for them and no one else matters, really. The workers don't matter. The customers don't matter. The greater good of the society doesn't matter. It just is about profit. And when you see that mindset take root, and it has here in America, you end up

With these really weird economic moments where the same corporations who are laying off thousands of people are also recording record profits. It is not right. And I know we've been kind of focused in the realm of white collar, but if you recall, and then really this was, gosh, maybe just four to six weeks ago, Amtrak almost came to a total standstill because…

Because the executives at Amtrak, despite making record profits, right, totally in this example that you're talking about, Sam, refused to give Amtrak employees even one paid sick day a year. The people keeping the trains on the tracks. Which is surreal. The people keeping the trains on the tracks. In the middle of a damn pandemic. Yep. What? And so, yeah, you're so right. And a columnist at the Wall Street Journal, Justin LaHart, coined the term rich session. Yeah.

Which refers to a recession or near recession that seems to impact the rich more than lower income folks. And I think it's kind of funny, but then it's not really a ha-ha moment. It's funny, weird, because as we know and as we're seeing, when shareholders are like, what do you mean we're only making $900 million this year? We made $1 billion last year. Exactly.

The consequences – it's actually – you want to talk about a trickle-down economy. This is what it is. The consequences are passed down to us, and this is where people are being laid off. And I think sometimes we can be like, oh, it's just wealthy engineers. I'm like, I don't know. There are foreign workers here.

You need to be sponsored by their employers. There are people who are like, wait, I'm in the middle of cancer treatment or I'm having a child and now I don't have health care because often that's tied to employment. You know, there's a lot of chaos being dealt just basically because of greed. People are already rich, but they're mad because they know they could be even richer. What? Yeah. Yeah. I also am really interested into what kind of conversation we're having with

when everyone, it seems like, is saying, are we or aren't we in a recession? Is it coming? Is it coming? And you'll see a lot of these CEOs justify layoffs at their companies because of fear of a recession. But on the other hand, some of the data suggests that these corporations are causing the problem. There was a recent study from the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, and they found that companies proactively marking up prices in anticipation of things getting more expensive is

is actually responsible for perhaps half of the inflation that we've all felt recently. So companies have caused half of our inflation problem themselves. And then they turn around and say, well, because of inflation and this and that, we got to lay off people. It's wild to me. It's totally wild to me. I think what I really want in this moment is just someone –

to put a little tighter hold on these companies and what they get to do. Right. Yeah. And that's the whole thing. I mean, I believe in accuracy. I believe words mean things. I don't think everything's politics, but obviously there's a political fallout if we are in a recession. And I think that's obviously part of

with like the Biden administration. They were like, uh-uh, we are not gonna let Republicans start waving around the word recession going into midterms because we know you're going to blame it fairly or unfairly specifically on this administration, right? So on one hand, the powers that be are like, nope, we're not in a recession. We take this term very seriously. We're not gonna do it. But we're also in a pandemic. And it's funny how those same people sure do like to play it fast and loose. Yeah.

with acknowledging that we are still in a pandemic. Thousands of people are still in hospitals dying every week. And they're like, oh no, we're fine. We're fine. And so it's interesting to see what very significant phenomenons are considered debatable or not. Exactly. And what is the advice you all would have for listeners in us arriving at the definition of recession right now? Because that's what I talk about with friends a lot. It's like, okay, are we or are we not...

when are we going to name it this, but when we name it, does that change anything? Does that bring relief? Because it feels like with the GOP running the house, like what help could even happen if something drastic happens? There's a good chance that on top of this possible recession year, we have a government shutdown at some point this year because there's already so much gridlock over the debt ceiling.

And we've seen the House GOP make it harder than ever to actually pass spending bills. So we'll be lucky if the government stays funded. I would not make any bets that we're going to see any stimulus checks going out to folks for a real recession this year. That's not going to happen. But I do think when money is tight across the country and you feel recession and you think it's coming, the best thing to think about is where you spend the money you do spend…

Maybe this is a time to more than ever support your local businesses and lay off of Amazon for a bit because Amazon is going to be okay, right? But there are people in your community who are selling goods and services who are even closer to the margin. Support them. Know what you're buying and where you're buying it from and support the folks who you think need the most help is what I would say. I love it. You're saying take care of each other.

You know, when things get tough, just take care of each other. Mutual aid, baby. Yeah. As I was reading about this, apparently another unusual aspect of this era that we're in is it's unusual that we anticipate a recession. It seems like often they kind of come and they're unexpected. And that's why just a few months before the 2008 recession started, very few people were like, it feels like we're about to go into one. So I guess it feels unprecedented that we even have a sense.

that the vibes are off and I guess you're not crazy. You're not crazy to be like, this feels weird and to act accordingly. And I hope that's a comfort of some kind. Totally. I also want to make a recommendation to listeners if they want some more listening on this idea of shareholder primacy. I find it quite fascinating and there's an episode of The Daily from

August 20th or 21st, 2019, featuring their columnist, Andrew Ross Sorkin. And they talk all about how this idea of shareholder primacy came to be. The episode is called What American CEOs Are Worried About. It's really good. When you start to really unpack who the folks at the top think all this shit works for, it makes you even angrier. So listen to it. Check it out. Okay. Well, we'll leave it there from now. We'll take a quick break, but stay tuned. We'll be right back.

to drag Taja called the moment you've been waiting for. Get over here. Ladies and gentlemen. Not Mortal Kombat.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands. I

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

We are back and we are going to switch gears to my favorite piece of hot mess this week, which is this new show called The Real Friends of WeHo, which premiered Friday, January 20th. Are they even friends? They aren't. These girls are not friends, which is not the problem. Even if the name is... Okay, we'll get it.

Not the problem. Did you know that there was like less than a year ago, another show called like the real friends. Like there's a whole thing. And this was originally going to be called the A-list West Hollywood, but then it got reimagined. Not that. They're not the A-list. Not that.

We're going to get there. So, for all of you who don't know what we're talking about and don't understand why we're so excited, let me explain. I'm sorry we're laughing so hard we can't even explain. We got to say what the show is because ain't nobody watched it yet. We know that. I'm so glad you said that. This show, for everyone listening, thank you for listening to Vibe Check brought to you by Stitcher and Sirius XM Radio because our show gets more listeners per week than this show gets on a broadcast television. So, that's amazing. And that's called Taste.

Taste. Listen. Taste. So thank you. All right. So this show is the real life, quotes, West Hollywood friends in the cast, which includes singer and choreographer Todrick Hall, who is probably one of the most hated YouTube stars within our community. There's also celebrity stylist Brad Goreski, who I love and I will argue deserves his own show. But you may know him from the Rachel Zoe report as her assistant and co-stylist. I've enjoyed him. He's been judging on Jack Handler's Drag Race. I like him. It's pretty fun. Yeah.

We also have Curtis Hamilton, who is an actor, I hear. Don't know his work. Not the I hear. Zach. I also was like, I've never heard of this person. Don't know. And to his defense, he just came out. And I would pay more attention if he had been out before the show as gay.

We also have CEO of Budda Skincare, also something I'm not aware of. But Dorian Renaud, who owns it, likes to think that he is Rihanna with Fenty, which is its own problem. And then we finally have two white gay men named James Vaughn, who is famously the husband to Jonathan Bennett, who is from Mean Girls, who has really sucked as much fame out of that movie from two decades ago as possible. And also entrepreneur and social media personality Zoe Zazek.

Wait, wait, wait. Let me pause right there. So James Bennett. Yes. Internet celebrity whose only claim to fame is a movie that – very popular, obviously, movie, but that came out 20 years ago. They couldn't even get him? They got his husband? Oh, the gag. And he jokes about this. And this is just from my reporting around town. His husband was offered –

the position on the show, he turned it down. So he took it. And that's why his whole framing the show is that he's only on the show because his husband is famous. So that is the tea on that one. So...

What has happened since? The entire LGBTQ plus and some allies have just revolted. They hate the show. They're like, who asked for this? And the big reason why is because it comes on now right after Drag Race, which is a very, very popular show that has moved to MTV for the first time ever. So when you finish Drag Race, this show comes on. What we saw in the first week, only 20,000 people watched the show. 20,000 people! Compared to the, mind you,

to the millions who watch track race that comes right before it millions that watch track race turned it off so you got 20,000 I hear that is reflected in the IMDB score which is at 1.2 out of 10 and a 3% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes 3% 3% I personally have I did not know you could get that low of a score ever

But what the show has done is it's brought up really familiar feelings that we felt around Bros. Something that was being served to us as historic, as game-changing, as culture-defining, and a lot of us didn't like it. And then we were all bullied by the stars within this project for not liking it. So Billy Eichner was mad at us, and now Todrick Hall is so, so mad at us. And I think that's where we're going to begin today's conversation. I do feel bad to even equate them, because Bros maybe wasn't the best movie, but I think it's fair to say it was a good movie.

There were moments when you laughed out loud. I also think that like Billy Eichner is someone who in general doesn't seem like a fraud. Whereas Dr. Call really does. This man has been in trouble for years now. He apparently doesn't pay his bills. He doesn't pay his collaborators. He doesn't pay dancers. Shady, shady, shady. Yeah. And so I was already not going to watch because he was involved. But what I have noticed having not watched the show yet, because no Jesus, um,

Todrick has been going off on Instagram in these posts full of typos and bad grammar, basically saying that if you don't watch this show and love every part of it, you're homophobic. To which I say, girl, shut up. It's bizarre. And I get so angry when people within shows like this say, you know, my...

famous moment, the moment in which I'm getting my bag is a revolution for all of us. And it's kind of that really flat way in which we say representation is what's going to change the world. It's not. It's just the beginning. And some bad representation can hurt us even more. There you go. And I think the show, that's what people are worried about. Is it hurting us more? And like his whole logic, which I find horrible, he says, quote, on his Instagram post,

Why are we thrilled to watch rich Kardashians or real housewives, but we only want to watch gays be underdogs? Not well off, not too confident. This is the dumbest logic.

I hate a frame that says the best that the gays can aspire to is real housewifedom. I don't want that. And I don't think that that is the only way to be successful. And I don't think I have to support that to be someone who loves queer people. But can we talk about that though? Because, and this is where my wonderful, beautiful, amazing boyfriend Craig said to me, who loves real housewives. And we got to hang out with Meredith Marks if you follow us on Instagram this weekend. But I was hanging out with Meredith Marks. So I've been really housewifing it up this weekend.

And he reminded me, he said, what's the difference between what these gay men are doing compared to what the women are doing on Real Housewives? Why do we love it when straight women are messy, flat, shallow, but when gay men participate in the same ways, we hate it so much. So what do y'all think about that? I mean, I want to be clear. I don't watch those shows either. I don't watch it. I have not watched Housewives since NeNe. Yeah. I have a longtime mentor who always stressed the importance of not punching down. But honey, call me Jack Hammer. Let's go. Look,

This television show could be comprised entirely of Todrick Hall doing a performance art where he recites lines from The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison while setting his boxes and boxes and boxes of colored contact lenses on fire. And I still wouldn't watch it. Yeah.

The idea, it's so delusional. And I think we have to be very honest that often the way people talk about representation, I've talked about the representation trap, sometimes it's just marketing. And I just think it is so delusional and craven and egocentric at a time when LGBT youth are being targeted publicly.

Bullied not by their peers, but by their parents, principals, and school teachers. When, as you say, Utah is in the process of, like many other states, Ohio included, trying to introduce as many forms of anti-LGBT legislation as possible. It is so insulting for someone like Todrick Hall or these other people who, frankly, I can't even name.

insinuate that them getting their messy TV time is somehow a step forward. Obviously, entertainment has a value, but let's be real. You're not helping anyone. Also, the idea that West Hollywood of all places is the epicenter of anything is so

It's so wild to me. Oh, these people are, they've lost their minds. What I don't like is this performance in which you act like the small thing you're doing is the biggest thing. At this point, getting a reality show after being a YouTube influencer is the lowest hanging of the lowest hanging fruit. You ain't done nothing for nobody, Todrick. And to act like this is some noble thing

of like queer solidarity and good for all of us. I would rather you just say, I'm getting a bag. Come watch me act crazy. If he did that, I might be like, let me watch, bro. Let me watch. But you are not fired rusting up in here, okay? Especially when particularly in the realm of housewives or love and hip hop and all this kind of stuff. So much of reality TV now in particular is PR. It's people trying to kind of reenact

redefine their narrative and all the kind of... Which, fine. By all means. Like, do that. Just say that, you know? But, like, yeah, don't get on your high horse. Don't make it more than what it is. I think that, for me, is what I want the point to be for people to take away today is that the issues...

I think a lot of the community are having with the show is the importance they're putting upon themselves for the show existing. Because it's also erasing the fact that this show already existed. It's called the A-list and then the A-list Dallas. These things came out years ago. At the same time, Brad Goreski, who is in the show,

did make history being on Rachel Zoe's show. It's an openly queer stylist in Hollywood and became very famous. Brad deserves his own show. I would fight at Bravo for him to have his own show and I would watch it every day. Well, there's also shows like We're Here, which is actually really great. And really good. And doing work. And actually doing something entertaining and substantive. Yes. Yes. And Queer Eye also exists, which again, don't know, but is better than this.

It feels like the same way in which Billy Eichner tried to, through this weird kind of word magic, make it seem as if Bros was the first gay rom-com. I think his language was, this is the first rom-com with two male leads. From a major studio. Funded by a major studio. And he's going through these semantic hoops to aggrandize this thing that could have just been a thing that we liked. Right? And so there's two problems here with this Todrick mess. One, don't act like your show was the first to ever do it.

But two, make it good. Make it good with good people doing good stuff. My favorite tweet about all of this comes from our friend Ira Madison III. He quote tweeted some Todrick quote, and he said, watching a reality show is not a political act. Girl, shut up.

It's not. It's just not. I mean, we've talked about this before. Because again, it's not just them that have used this rhetoric. You see it actually in all kinds of entertainment. You can't guilt trip people into entertainment. There you go. The entire point is that it should be fun. It should be something that you're compelled to do because you want to do it. And certainly when it comes to reality TV, oh my

gosh. Yeah. Well, I mean, if we can have some fun because we have a few minutes left, I'd like to play a little game. Do we? Chantel, do we have time? We have minutes. She hasn't told me to wrap yet. I got a few minutes. She said no. Oh, we don't have time? No.

Shantel, keep this back and forth in. Well, then really quickly, is there someone you'd want to watch a reality show? Who would you want to see on the show? Oh. Because I think the casting did fall apart. Brad, great. Does it have to be like a queer or anybody? Oh, you know what? I would see like a fashion. I think it would be really, I mean, it would never happen. But yeah, but no. No. No.

I'm dead. No, like if we could be inside one of the fashion houses as they were preparing a season, you know, seeing like Daniel Rosa Berry. Yeah. You know, I'm into that. Sorry. I mean, La Roche is very good in his collaborations with Zendaya, you know, but I'm good.

I'm good. Sam, do you have a person? Who is the main dancer on Legendary? The main judge dancer? Leomi. Leomi. I would watch that. I would watch Leomi do whatever she wanted to do for hours a day. And she would give us a show. She would give us a show. Leomi needs a show. She's really fun on- Like, that's what I want to watch. She's great. Those are wonderful picks. I love that. And mine is going to be Brad Goreski. My note to MTV, fire everyone. Make it about Brad and his husband, Gary Gennetti. And we're good. All-

And finally, take Drag Race back to 90 minutes because that's the other thing. MTV cut Drag Race down to make space for... Can I tell y'all my secret truth? I have not watched Housewives since NeNe and I have not watched Drag Race since Raja. And it shows. It does show. It's so much to watch.

And now I'm so far behind, I feel like I can't catch up and keep up. Wait, when you say Raja, you mean like her first season, which was like 2000? She has fully been on All Stars. Nine? Wow, okay. Yeah.

Were you in college? And this, my good listeners, is proof that Drag Race's audience is mostly cis women. Because Sam Sanders is one of many queer people that doesn't actually watch the show. I don't know if I totally buy into that. I love Bob the Drag Queen. I know some of the names that come out of it, and I'll watch the clips, but I ain't watched the show at all. I watch Drag Race weekly with my neighbors.

is all I'm going to say. And it's a room full of mostly black gay men in Columbus who watch it like instead of challengers. I love it. Listeners, send us some notes and tell me what season to pick back up Drag Race because I want to. That's actually good. I want to. Let me know. Well, we have to leave it there because Chantel is yelling at me. I hear you, Chantel. Shut the fuck up. She's like, you queens need to stop. Let it go. Go to therapy. Anyway, well, y'all don't go anywhere. Stay right there. We'll be right back with our recommendations. ♪

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All right, listeners, we are back. And before we end the show, we're going to do what we always do. Share.

something that's been keeping our vibes right over this past week or so. Some recommendations. Saeed, I'm going to start with you. Go ahead. Okay. So this past weekend, I got to go to one of my favorite cities in America, New Orleans. My first time back there since the pandemic started. It was good to be back. And I got to stop by a new bookstore, which is always exciting. It's a black-owned bookstore. It's called Baldwin & Co. And you go in and it felt

It was a dream. It felt like going to a bookstore in a movie, which is to say, you know, it was bustling. Coffee was being made. Every table, people were like talking about new podcasts they want to start. I passed two gay men talking about, you know, relationship drama. Like it was just like everything was happening.

And I came across this book that I've heard about. It's actually a reissue. So in 1983, a black literature professor named Claudia Tate interviewed a bunch of black women writers, Maya Angelou, Gwendolyn Brooks, Nikki Giovanni, Audre Lorde, Toni Morrison, Sonia Sanchez, Alice Walker, just to name a few. The book is called Black Women Writers at Work.

And it's a collection of interviews with these writers about the work themselves, how they feel about their critics, what they're working on right now, even their opinions on grammar. And it was published in 1983 and it's just been reissued. And they didn't make very many changes to it. And I just think it's just, you know, a wonderful time capsule. And if you are a big fan of black literature,

fiction in particular, you know that the mid-80s, it was actually a really incredible time. I mean, there was a moment where, for example, there were four Black women on the New York Times bestsellers list for fiction. There was a moment, you know what I mean, that was really exciting. And so I've enjoyed getting into this book, and I just think

so often black people, but black women in particular, you know, are being derailed from their work. They're not able to kind of have their work taken seriously and everything because they're so busy kind of warding off all the other bullshit that we throw at them. So it's just a really great celebration of their brilliance. And also shout out to Baldwin & Co. It was a great bookstore, really beautiful. Yeah, I love it.

Also, how was New Orleans? Oh, it was wonderful. The hangovers were great. The beignets were beignets. No, it was really good. I spent most of my time in the Marigny and Bywater neighborhoods, which are kind of two of my favorites. I don't even know if we even went to the French Quarter. It was just great. It was good to be back with my friend John Stanton. We love John Stanton. I love getting that picture of John and you together. So good. So good.

Zach, what's your recommendation? What's keeping your vibe right this week? Okay, my vibes are so high this week of happiness because...

There's two films, but one film in particular, everyone needs to remember this title because it's going to come out this year and it's going to change, I think, everything. And it is a film called Kokomo City by Dee Smith, a black trans Grammy nominated producer who was homeless when she came out as trans as a producer. And she's worked with like Lil Wayne, Andre 3000, all these people in Atlanta. Comes out, becomes homeless, decides, I want to tell the story of my black trans sisters who are doing sex work to survive. And it is the first film I've ever seen where,

by a black trans person with black trans people. And what was so powerful about it is that it was so beautiful and fun and it talked about trauma in a way that felt very careful and it had a purpose. And I don't know, just being there, I talked to the director afterwards and I said to her, I was like, this feels more important than Paris is burning.

And it feels like I got to witness what will be the big queer canon film to come out of this decade at least. So it just got bought. Kokomo City. Kokomo City. I saw the trailer. It looks great. It's incredible. It was one of the first films bought at Sundance, like immediately. Magnolia Pictures picked it up. It's going to get a theatrical release, which is great. Magnolia also picked up the Little Richard documentary. When I tell you, Saeed and Sam are both very connected to Little Richard. I was not aware of that.

of the depths. But when you watch this, this man was openly gay on TV in the 1950s talking about it for decades. So anyway, I was like, you know, we've given so much to Sam Smith who's amazing, but like Little Richard, the beginning of everything. And this doc does it justice and it's incredible. So Black for Films really defined Sundance for me. Love it. Love it. While we're on

Mr. Little Richard, I do have to say, anyone who loves that man and wants to know about him more, my favorite piece ever written about him is a profile of Little Richard, an Oxford American from December 11th, 2015. It's called Prayers for Richard. It is one of the best profiles I've ever read in my life. Go check it out. Prayers for Richard in Oxford, America. That's so good. Sam, what about you? I want to recommend...

an album that I got recently on vinyl. I think y'all know, I got a record player because Beyonce told me to when Renaissance came out on vinyl. - We've all been there. - We've all been there. - I did that with Formation, I did. - Yeah, yeah. And so I had this record player just for Renaissance and I was like, let me expand the collection. I've been adding to the collection the last few months.

But I have come across a lesser known Prince record that I've been loving on vinyl. It is called Dirty Mind. Dirty Mind wasn't one of Prince's biggest albums, but I think it's one of his best. The lead single, Dirty Mind, you all might know. But I love this album so because the whole thing just rocks and is funky from top to bottom, but it's only half an hour long. It's eight songs and 30 minutes long, and there are no skips. When did it come out? It is 1980. 1980.

Dirty Mind. It just got lost in the Prince shuffle. When he began his career, he was putting out stuff all the time. All the time. And this is one of those lesser known jewels of his discography. I love it so much. Dirty Mind by Prince. I play it on vinyl when I'm cleaning the house. But you should play it on Spotify or whatever. Cassette, VHS. I don't know. It's really good. Is Prince's music on Spotify?

I felt like he was It is now it is For a while it wasn't For a while it wasn't But now it is Prince Dirty Mind Whole album No skips Bravo Listeners Send us your recommendations What's keeping your vibe right What are you listening to Or reading or watching Or enjoying Email us Let us know Vibecheck at Stitcher dot com Vibecheck at Stitcher dot com

Thank you everyone for joining the chaos that is Vibe Checked. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend and tweet a friend and DM a friend and maybe Grindr message a friend. If you do that, send us a screenshot. I'll post it. Oh yes, please do.

We love a stealthy campaign. Huge thank you to our producer, Chantel Holder, engineer Brendan Burns, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least, thank you to Jared O'Connell and Amelda Skinder for all of their help.

And of course, we want to hear from all of you. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com or like the very nice guy at Phoenix Bar in New Orleans who came up to me and my friend Teddy and was like, oh, you're Saeed Jones. I love your work and quoted some lines from my first book of poems.

It was so nice. And of course, I love that. It's a vibe. Keep in touch with us on Instagram at theferocity, at Zach Staff, and at Sam Sanders. Use the hashtag vibecheckpod so we can keep up with you too. Also, you can follow us on TikTok at vibecheckpod. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Bye-bye. Stitcher.

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