Please Tell Me Your Secrets
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Hey, ladies. Hey, girls. Hey, bros. Bros. Sir. Sir. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And I'm not doing that with y'all today. I'm Sam Sanders, and you're listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

This week on Vibe Check, we're going to talk about the new rom-com, Bros. Didn't do too well at the box office this past weekend, and there are many, many theories. We'll discuss a few of them.

And then later we'll talk about a truly disturbing drama. The more I read into it, the more I'm like, oh, Lord, someone take the wheel. Talking about Herschel Walker. He is running as a Republican for the U.S. Senate in Georgia, and he is in a heap of mess involving one check written for an abortion and a very angry son. We'll unpack it.

At least one angry son that we know. That we know their name. Because there could be other angry sons too. And also, the theme of this week is, if men only went to therapy, we would live in a better world. That is the purpose of today's episode. I don't know. I mean, you know, things are getting kind of wild out here. Therapy might not be enough. We need more than therapy. We need some lobotomies. Let me stop. Oh my God.

Anywho, before we get into the news, the hot topics, all the things...

How are we feeling, my sisters? Zach, you go first. What's up? How's your vibe? I'm good. I feel like, you know, I don't always buy into this idea of Mercury retrograde, but I really felt it. The season, it just ended the other day. And the really penultimate moment of my Mercury retrograde was when my Tony finally arrived that was engraved. Because when you win the Tony, it's not engraved. And then it gets engraved. And they misspelled my name. Oh.

So, you know, really, God builds you up and he brings you down in one of those swoops. He's going to keep you humble. You're a respectable Caucasian. How do you mess up Stafford? How? Come on, man. So, yeah, that was a really funny moment for me. Maybe the silver lining is you get to keep the Tony with the typo and then you have two and then you can sell one. No, the Tonys, to their credit, called me, apologized as it was en route, and now it's already back again.

being re-engraved and it will be back at my home by Wednesday, literally. Oh, wow. Okay. I like that they apologized before it even got to you. That is the least they can do. I got the heads up. Yep. But, Tay Levy, that's how I'm feeling. Yeah. Syed, how are you? I feel good. I don't know. Obviously, we're going to get into the controversies and I just feel like I'm in this week where I'm like, you know, sometimes it helps to kind of look around and see what other messes people are getting into when you go and look at your life and you go,

doing pretty good. Yep. Yep. I feel like I'm doing just fine. Just keep swimming. So yeah, my vibe is cute. I'm minding my business. How about you, Sam? My vibe is twofold. I finally broke down and got a Peloton because now you can rent them. And my cheap ass was like, I can afford that. So it's in the back house right now. Alex, I think, is riding it. That's cute. I like it. We'll see how it goes. I might send it back. I don't like it, but we'll see.

So vibing on that, she's finally, two years later, a Peloton girl. Who is your favorite trainer? Are you a Cody, Rigsby girl? Sure. Love him. Now, I'm waiting for the Cody scandal because I feel like that. No. That was wild. Listen, we're putting a pin on it. We're calling it. That will happen at one point. And we will be here to discuss it. I don't want to claim that.

I don't want to play that. But my larger vibe besides the Peloton, which we'll see how it goes, is listening to new Supreme Court Justice Katonji Brown Jackson share her voice for the first time on the court. This week, there are arguments being heard in a case concerning voting rights. And for the first time ever, we've heard her ask questions of these lawyers there in the Supreme Court room. And

And an argument that she tore down beautifully and simply in like two minutes was this claim from the right that vote and oversight from the government should be applied in a race-blind way because the founders were race-blind and they would have wanted it that way.

And there's this audio of her in this soothing, calming voice pointing out. I don't think we can assume that just because race is taken into account, that that necessarily creates an equal protection problem. Because I understood that we looked at the history and traditions of the Constitution, at what the framers and the founders thought about. And when I drill down to that level of analysis...

it became clear to me that the framers themselves adopted the Equal Protection Clause, the 14th Amendment, the 15th Amendment in a race-conscious way. In two minutes, she totally undoes this conservative lie that we've been fed for decades. Yeah. That the founders didn't see race. Of course they saw race. It's interesting, too, because of the makeup of the court right now, this period where they get to ask questions and get to kind of push back.

It's kind of, I mean, it's a cold comfort because unfortunately when it comes time for the numbers to be counted, you know, she'll probably be outnumbered. But yeah, to hear from Justices Kagan, Sotomayor, yeah. Okay. And to hear her take something that was seen as a thing that belonged to conservatives, this idea of originalism.

For her to say, you're not just wrong on it, but originalism can also be a progressive ideal and work for this side as well. I think it's really big. It's like big for jurisprudence. She is smart in ways that we haven't even seen the last of yet. So go ahead, Justice Jackson. Well, glad everyone's vibes are doing all right. Before we get into our first topic,

though we want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail tweeted us dm'd us someone was talking about we should get a pulitzer and I was like I don't I don't think that's how podcasts work there is a pulitzer for podcasts now FYI but it's for reporting and audio not we don't do any reporting here not for tea spilling not for shade throwing

Reading tea leaves is not actual reporting. But we did want to give a special shout out to Suzanne, a legal aid attorney and law teacher who sent us a super thoughtful email last week. And here's just part of it. In response to our discussion about Brett Favre and the Temporary Aid to Needy Families program, TANF funds, Suzanne said, quote, I tell my students that impoverished people who rely on these public programs really have to be experts on their own poverty.

That is just like so much insight and it says a lot about what they're up against while people like Brett Favre take advantage of them. Suzanne, thank you for first of all listening, but also kind of bringing this into the classroom and talking to your law students. Like that's awesome. I love it.

It's so powerful. So we love hearing from y'all so much that we are going to do an Ask Us Anything episode soon. You can send us a voice note or an email at vibecheckatstitcher.com or you can tweet us with the hashtag, hashtag vibecheckpod. Also, before we move on, I want to shout out the reporting that I relied on a lot for that conversation last week. The folks over at Vox have been covering the issue of that scandal extremely well. So thank them for that too. Yeah.

All right, shall we get into some bro tea and everything else, everybody? Let's go. Yes, let's go. Let's go. It's now time to dive into the hottest Twitter topic of the week, which is the release of the Universal Studios film Bros, written and starring the comedian Billy Eichner. So before we get in, we can lay some context to why this is such a big deal today.

And it's only a big deal due to its own rollout, I would argue. So Billy Eichner, for those who are not familiar, is a very well-known comedian, especially on the internet. He came to fame through his YouTube show that became a TV show called Billy on the Street, where he runs around New York City yelling at people, trying to get them to interview, celebrities jump into it. I'm sure you've seen it. It was like a loud white gay man walking up to strangers on the street. And every time he walked up to a person of color, they would-

We're not having it. They had no idea what was happening. I will say, I found some moments of that whole thing pretty funny. I also loved the Hulu series he did for a while called Difficult People. Difficult People. Where he leaned even more heavily into being unlikable. It's like my favorite version of Billy Eichner.

Yes, and that's kind of the top line there. Billy Eichner's famous for being unlikable. So in the past few years, he's been working very deeply on a movie called Bros, which was supposed to be this historic movie that is a rom-com starring him and Luke McFarlane, who is famous for being a heartthrob in Hallmark movies as the romantic lead in those. Usually straight romantic lead, but now they're going to play gay men falling in love. And it's supposed to be an ode to Nora Ephron and other 90s rom-coms where we see two gay men finally fall in love through the romantic opulence

Obstacles that they face. The movie was billed as a historic first. It's the first time a studio... Major studio. A major studio, thank you. A major studio has put out a movie into theaters directly that has a gay male protagonist falling in love in this way. And it was a $22 million film with tens of millions of dollars of marketing around it. It was literally everywhere.

And it got a ton of great reviews, but when it hit the box office this weekend, it flopped. And when we talk about flop, it flop-flopped. It came in at $4.8 million in the first weekend, while Rotten Tomatoes gave it a 90%. IMDb has given it a 5.7 out of 10, and a lot of Twitter has come through to get it together. And Billy Eichner is now on the offense trying to fight for this film. And before we jump in, I want to read his latest tweet, because he keeps making news about these tweets. Peace!

He's still tweeting? He's still tweeting. He wrote, quote, box office, as we all know, has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a movie. In tweeting about a movie you haven't actually seen is meaningless. That's just Twitter bullshit. The majority of people who see Bros really love it. Go check it out and see it for yourself. And my note to that is, yeah, if you go and see it, you may like it, but no one in America has seen it.

seen it. This is the thing, and I'm going to let y'all talk because I have a lot of thoughts and I don't want to run through too quickly, but how is that supposed to get anybody who was on the fence about bros into a movie theater? It won't, no. It's a little off-putting. And I think what I found really confusing about the entire rollout of the movie, which is good, I've seen it twice now, and some parts of it are laugh out loud, like hilariously funny.

But the whole shtick with this movie and the rollout was you have to go see it out of obligation. And if you don't see it, you're bad. Why would you do that for a film that's supposed to be fun? Yeah. It felt like homework. No one wants to do homework. Why are you telling us? But the thing is, it's not at all homework. It's not homework. It's an Apatow movie. It's fun. I just – I don't know why they felt the need to push the film that way. Well, so the thing is, I've thought about – this has happened a few times –

With one of Spike Lee's movies that was like rooted in history, I think it was like Miracle at Santa Ana, where he would say, you know, you've got to get out and, you know, see this movie. We've got to support black films. We have to support black films about black history where, you know, you kind of, I think as a passive potential audience member, you know, particularly when a film is about a first or it's connected to identity, at times you can feel like you're kind of being guilt tripped.

into going to see it, or that it's like a school assignment. But even with those types of movies, you know, go see this movie about, you know, go see Selma. We've got to go support Ava DuVernay. This is really important. You know, that rhetoric is not unusual. But the idea of turning a romantic comedy into a school assignment or guilt trip, like you can't guilt trip me into seeing a comedy. That's not what anyone wants, no matter the subject, you know? Well, and I am really interested in,

And how the film was marketed, what that says about what the film itself was trying to do. A lot of the critiques of this movie, and even the critiques acknowledge how funny it is. It's, you know, was this film trying to do too much? It was trying to appeal to straight audiences, also trying to appeal to queer audiences, also trying to appeal to fans of the classic rom-com all in one movie. Right.

And I think my one biggest critique was that this movie could have been even better if it focused a little more narrowly on just the love story, just the love story. So many moments the film felt like it was needing to speak to all of the discourses. And that's a lot of weight and obligation for any one film to carry.

And I honestly feel bad that Billy felt all that pressure. I can tell from the way he's tweeting. I can tell from the way they did this movie that Billy felt a lot of pressure to please a lot of different constituencies. That must not have been fun, you know, and he made a movie that's good in spite of it. But I wonder how much freer he would have felt.

And how much even better this film could have been if it was just allowed to be an actual love story and just that. Yeah. Where I was watching it, I watched it with my boyfriend. And when we walked out, we talked a lot about it, obviously. But something I felt myself wanting as someone that loves rom-coms.

I was like, I love rom-coms. I'm one of those people, Sam, I think you're similar, where I go to Netflix and just watch a lot of old rom-coms. They're like junk food to me. I think it's fun. I love a Hallmark movie. It's really comforting. This movie, the entire time, felt like a Twitter tweet thread.

That sounds so unpleasant.

fall in love no matter all these obstacles in front of them over and over because love is so strong. Billy and Luke felt like they were falling in love because it was like they had to, because that's what they needed the politics of this to be. And it just felt all like too homeworky and assigned to us. And I'm like, girl, when I've seen, "Brokeback Mountain,"

And we can get into this part as well, like how gay movies do in theaters because they have done better than people think. That's different. I mean, that was a drama. It was a drama, exactly. Comedies very much fail all the time. But like when I'm watching other movies about queer people, whether it's Heartstoppers or whatever, you know, like they just kind of like show us a story and tell us. They're not preaching it to us. And this was like a really, really preachy movie that I just don't care to be preached at right now about. Yeah.

I mean, gosh, there's so much I want to say. I think queer people have a really sharp sense of what it feels like when you are trying to placate or appease someone.

You know, the parents that would rather you tone it down, the coworkers who are subtly kind of icing you out. You know what I mean? And as you've pointed out, it's very clear that Billy, maybe he thought that would be the selling point. Maybe he thought like this history thing. But even the history is like an asterisk from a major studio. And I'm like, well, you're writing off a lot of

And actually, you know, there's another gay romantic comedy hitting theaters like in a couple of weeks. You know what I mean? There's a lot going on. But he thought that was exciting. But to me, it's hard to root for. It's hard to get excited about that. And also the real truth is that straight people adore us. They want to follow us when it comes to culture. Queer people, queer black people, we make culture. So I think he appealed to the wrong audience first. He was like appealing to straight women.

white audiences, you know, trying to get, I'm like, no, no, no, you need to appeal to us, get us excited, and then they'll fall

long. That's why they're all watching Drag Race now. I think that there is a version of this movie where Billy goes full Billy, where he goes full gay and allows this thing to become an indie sleeper hit in a way that could have surprised everybody. But in trying to make this a thing that out of the gate almost serviced straight fans more than gay fans, it's just hard to do that. But I also think... Sir. Okay. Okay.

I also think, though, like from a business strategy standpoint –

I have major questions about choosing to release any kind of rom-com in October in movie theaters first. In movie theaters. That's the larger thing. So over the last- If it was streaming, I guarantee you it would have been a hit. Yeah. It definitely would have been a hit this weekend. If you look at the data about what movies still succeed in movie theaters, we have seen fewer people go to theaters every year for the last decade or more as streaming has become ascendant. And it's gotten so bad that studios are releasing fewer rom-coms than ever. Yeah.

This is from the New York Times. Studios have released 40 rom-coms in theaters over the last decade, about four per year. Compare that to 212 during the 15 years before, 14 per year. Studios know that rom-coms have become...

a thing of the streaming world. You're most likely to watch a rom-com on streaming, not a theater. So knowing that, why would you push so hard for a studio release for a kind of film that doesn't do well in theaters anymore? And on top of that, not a July or August or June summer rom-com release in theaters, an October release. That was going to be hard for any rom-com, let alone the first big budget gay rom-com.

And so I wonder what someone like Billy does next. He wrote a good screenplay. He made a movie that works on several levels. If he wants to be a movie star, what kind of movie star should Billy Eichner be? And is the better version of Billy Eichner something brand new and not him trying to place himself into an art form that is increasingly dated? Yeah.

Also, I want to acknowledge, because I feel like weirdly Billy himself has not, the people who made that $4 million possible at all at the box office. There are people who did show up and go to the movie theaters. And look, I feel like now to go to a movie theater, you're basically spending $30 to $50. If not more. If not more. People didn't show up. And so the other thing is I think Billy's and his collaborators' response to the disappointing returns

is kind of like disrespectful to the people who did support them. Like I think you say, thank you so much to the people. I hope more people give it a chance. I hope if you enjoy it, you go out there and you tell them, you know what I mean? It just feels really dismissive because again, you're so focused on the straight white male father, the patriarch that you are desperate to come kiss you on the forehead or play football with you that you're not even paying attention to the people who did show up, you know, over the weekend to support you. And I think that just says a lot

about his well his issues he needs to work through some stuff we all do i agree he doesn't that's just like before this came out i've never been a huge billy eichner fan due to his company his company's just not mine i think he deserves to have a career all these things he's just not my cup of tea but i was willing to go to the theaters on thursday pay for it be there to support this as you know a community effort

And when he immediately began tweeting about this being homophobic, that it didn't do well, it just felt like really misplaced and miscalculated. To your point, Sam, that you're making, that I think is the point to all of this, is that he made this movie for straight people to like him. And I'm sorry, they don't like you. And the gay people that were struggling, you didn't make the movie for them to see you in a new light. And now you've just lost everybody.

And it's like, you got to pick a lane. You got to focus on a story that actually means something to you. And what I wanted to see Billy Eichner do is a movie about him like being him, like this like miserable, like kind of miserable comedian who doesn't even believe in love and just is like wanting to live a life with himself. I would love that rom-com. Billy Eichner's single and finding a way to love himself would watch. But Bros, where it's like his fake

Harry met Sally. No, I'm good. And no one asked for that. Or, and I mean, as a, you know, kind of cranky curmudgeon person myself, I think Billy, you know, cause he, you know, the abrasive strident too smart for his own good kind of persona. I find frankly, very relatable. Then make a film about someone like that who stumbles and falls into the wonder of love. And as who was like, what's going on? I'm getting a text message from this guy and I'm smiling and I used to make fun of

people who do it. There's totally a way to embrace that sincerity, but I think if you're constantly angling, positioning, I'll meet emerging writers who haven't even finished a chapter of a manuscript, and they're worried about book covers and marketing and where they want to do events. If you're thinking so far ahead of the game, you know what I mean? You're not going to be able to create those compelling, sincere moments. And I'm like, baby, this is about love. This is about love.

Well, and I am perhaps the biggest Eichner fan in this room. I loved difficult people on Hulu. I loved him on the street being crazy. I think he's really funny. And I think the charm of Billy is actually his unlikability. He is so unlikable, you can't help but like him. I hope that whatever his next chapter is, that he leans into that. I think he has a sharp voice. I think he's smart. I think he wants to be a star. Yeah.

And I just hope that like he and the whole team behind this film, the next thing that they do, I hope that they can just forget about any and all discourses and just make a story that they're proud of and that feels true to them. Because if it resonates for them truly, it will speak to other queer people and the rest of them will see us and find it and come to it. But you got to serve yourself and your core first.

And you got to put down the damn phone. I can't believe. Too many discourses. First rule, baby. Put that phone down. Get away from it. Yeah. Yeah. So that said, though, before we close, are we telling our listeners to go see Bros or not? No.

I'm not. You can't, Sam. Okay, everyone go around and say what they think. Sam, you go first. Should people see Bros? So I actually watched it once at home with a pre-online screener and then once in a theater. It's twice as good in the theater. It's a movie that is made for a movie theater that's made for a room of folks that want to laugh together.

And it makes the moments of hilarity pop even more. It was a flashback to like, you know, going to see a big rom-com 15 years ago. And that felt fun. So I would say go see it in a theater with your friends. I'm going to say go see it just so you can talk about it. I like when people see things that they can talk about, but don't expect yourself to walk out being obsessed with it. That's my point. I'm going to go see it. I believe in the laughter in theater, but also I'm afraid that Billy's going to like find me, you know?

You know what I mean? Yes, that too. Billy on the Street used to be right in front of BuzzFeed's office in New York. Really? On 23rd, right by that Home Depot. And I used to go to lunch at different times. Why was there a Home Depot on 23rd? Sorry. It's still there. But I used to literally change my walking plans and my lunch time because I was like, I do not need this gay man come yell. So go see it, you know, because I don't need that energy. Yeah.

Go see it so you don't get yelled at. I want the Difficult People movie. That's what I want. Difficult People. Because that show was so good. Okay, I support that. That's what we can all agree on. Difficult People as a movie. There we go. Yes, yes. Well, it's time for us to take a quick break, but we'll be right back. So stay tuned for more. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders Awards.

On their Instagram page, we are golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

We are back and we're going to change lanes a bit and talk about a different bro named Herschel Walker. Oh my God. The ways in which every week we're able to somehow bullshit our way into a connection between things is really stunning. That was wild.

Sorry, Sam, you were setting this up. Let us, what are we talking about? Our topic B this week is the saga of one Republican Senate candidate, Herschel Walker. The former University of Georgia football star is running for the U.S. Senate against Raphael Warnock, who is the first black male senator from Georgia. The race is kind of close, and Walker has made a name for himself for his gaffes on the stump.

And his really, really conservative take on abortion rights. He supports an abortion ban with no exceptions. And he's made that a central plank of his campaign. Flash forward to this week, the Daily Beast reports that that same Herschel Walker reimbursed a woman for an abortion after they conceived in 2009.

This Daily Beast article was published on Monday evening, and they even had images of a receipt from the clinic and a sympathy card from Walker that had a check in it. It was the sympathy card that sent me. To get well soon. Oh, my goodness. So as soon as this story breaks...

Herschel denies it. He goes on Hannity on Fox News to address the check specifically, and he says, quote, "I send money to a lot of people, and that's what's so funny. God has blessed me. I want to bless others. I got into this race because I'm a Christian." I'm going to pause on that just for a second to talk about the next layer of this saga, which is one of Herschel Walker's sons.

TikTok conservative firebrand, 23-year-old Christian Walker, went on to spill even more tea about Herschel after this story broke. He begins tweeting this as his father is on Hannity, saying that he gives the money. Oh, it was happening at the same time? It was happening at the same time. And actually, Zach, pick it up, because you know the tweets more than I do. Christian Walker enters the chat.

Go ahead. Christian Walker enters the chat as his father is on Hannity defending himself on this article. According to Christian Walker, to videos he's posted now, what set him off was that his father has been lying about a lot of things during this campaign. He knew that his father had other kids or he's come to find it out, but the

promise his father gave him was that he was going to do right by him. He was going to get in front of it. He was going to do right by these kids because Christian Walker is most famous for dragging celebrities who don't quote unquote take care of their kids, i.e. Nick Cannon or other liberals who have kids and don't take care of them. Yeah.

Nick Cannon lives in his head rent-free. Rent-free. Rent-free. Christian Walker was set off by all this because he saw in the Daily Beast reporting the card in question with the check and saw that that was indeed his father's handwriting.

And in that moment, he realized all of this was real. According to Christian Walker's videos, he says lots of Republican strategists have been calling him during this entire campaign to say, don't talk about it. Be quiet. Be on his side. He realized that all of this, and these are Christian Walker's words,

or lies, and it didn't even matter anymore because if the right was a family values party, then how would they let his father, who has threatened his mother, who has not raised his kids, who has not been a Christian man, become a senator, and now he has to speak out because this goes against what the right stands for, and that is seen.

And the allegations from Christian, Herschel's son, they're not just, oh, my dad's a philanderer. He says that Herschel threatened he and his mother with violence to the point that Christian and his mom had to move six times in six months. And as recently as this morning, I saw Christian Walker uploaded at least two videos. I mean, going, they're long. They're very, very long. Here's the thing. Let me come in with a beat.

If this is your first time hearing the name Christian Walker, I would like to say congratulations and please tell me your secrets. Yes. Because for those of us who have spent any time on TikTok, Christian Walker is an incredibly toxic –

I would say dangerous in terms of the way he like celebrates misinformation and kind of like far right ideals. He does the thing where I think he's very good at like being messy in a spectacle where you're almost willing to kind of like not take what he's talking about as seriously because he's so ridiculous. But I think we're in 2022, baby. We know there are a lot of ridiculous, dangerous people we need to look out for. So I do want to acknowledge that.

This is truly like something from the Game of Thrones writer's room. There's like a lot of really bad people. But I do want to say, I mean, to me, so this is my question to both of you. Knowing that Christian Walker wants to be a star, wants to have his profile on the rise, he says he wants to be like the new Gen Z face of conservatism. Do you believe that this was a sincere surprise?

Or is this like brand management? Is this him going, okay, the election's coming up, and you know what the real surprise is? My next career move. You know what I mean? Yeah. What I think is happening, because what I always take refuge in, I'll use that word, with the far right in understanding their logic, is that a lot of them that are anti-abortion access,

do believe that that is killing someone. That is not correct, that is not factual, but that is a way in which certain religious people do believe it. Like a sincere... Yes, sincere belief that they will go to hell. Christian Walker does identify as a very conservative Christian. So I think there's a world in which he saw that his dad isn't operating under the ways in which he thinks being a Christian is.

and does see this as a moral and religious crisis. And that he, if he doesn't want to put himself into a faith crisis, he does need to speak up and sees this as his burden to push against his father. Oh my God, he's Alicent Hightower from House of the Dragon. Yes, 100%. Yes, 100%.

100% Alison Hightower for House of Dragons. So that's where I'm like, oh, this is like drama sightseeing because he literally believes the things the right has been spilling and now he sees this as his like, I don't know, Judas moment, whatever, to like fulfill his destiny to be the son that like takes down like the evil dad.

That's my thing. Sam, what do you think? You know, it's funny. I was watching more videos of him this morning and just kind of felt sorry for him. And I looked over at my boyfriend and I was like, this is a mess. And he just won't... He's yelling. He's so loud. And my partner looked at me and said, he's probably yelling so much now because he's been yelled at his whole life. Yes. And I'm like... Yes. I think this...

This young man, I think he's hurting. I think he's hurting. And I think the pain exists on his face in his scream. Like I just see hurt when I see him. And so what I want most of all for him is just to put the phone down, be quiet for a while and like take care of you.

But I think also the larger question for someone like Christian Walker, if he's building himself up to be a new voice on the right, the larger question is, what do you stand for and what are you about? His entire career so far, if I can call it that, has been reactionary. Reacting to Kehlani, having reactions to his dad, reacting to liberals on Twitter or TikTok. What is Christian Walker about? What does Christian Walker want? What does Christian Walker believe in? I don't know yet. That's deeply compassionate.

I know usually when I'm about to say that, yeah. But it is. It is deeply compassionate because I realized, I mean, you know, like you were saying, like someone who's being yelled at their whole life. Like, do I sympathize with someone like Christian Walker? No, I don't. Because I feel like his ethics and his behavior are difficult to justify, even when I'm like, okay, you're in a really difficult situation. But thinking about something, unfortunately, that Christian Walker has in common with his own father, I'm fascinated by the, not even

the politics but the psychology of black conservatives, especially now when the Republican Party is, you know, it's always been toxic, it's always been pretty consistently anti-black, but we're like in a new era. So like to think about, let's like take a step back.

For people desperate to feel loved or just to get attention or to get money or to get power, you're a black person who just feels like, oh, I'm not getting what I deserve, what I need. I'm not respected in my own home. My father's disregarding me. I think I'm seeing a parallel both between Christian and his father where it's like, well, you know who will give me attention?

You know who will give me money and even tell me maybe I could be a U.S. senator? Republicans. White Republicans desperate to have a black person they can, well, use. That's really sad. But here's the thing. As soon as you're not useful to them, they will drop you like a hot potato. That's a good point. Politics will never love you. Politics will never love you. You want a friend, get a dog. Don't go into politics. This is like Shakespeare. Yeah.

That was so dark. But I think what I have to say, and I'm going to say this as a black mixed kid with a white mom who I've, since I've seen Christian Walker come into the public space, I've said to myself, there is a dark, twisted universe in which I became Christian Walker due to my own issues with my own dad and my own family and how I thought about race because I do understand the self-hate he's going through. And that when you hate yourself that much and everyone around you hates you that much,

that you believe that to kill yourself or kill the thing that is you will make someone finally love you. And that reality moment when you see that that's never going to save you, that's never going to be there, is ground shaking. And that's what Christian is going through today. And it's also in its own way what –

Billy Eichner is going through with this movie where you look at, to quote Audre Lorde, the master's tools will not dismantle the master's house. When you see these people using these tools that have been used against them and they say, wait a minute, maybe if I do it this way, it will be okay. I will feel better. That hole will be filled and it doesn't become filled. It is shocking and it hurts. And that's what he's going through. I mean, that's, I mean, damn. I mean, love is the only pathway to love. Yes.

Not power, not delusion, not money, not TikTok. Nothing is going to feel that hold, going to address that wound except actual love. Maybe this is a turning point for Chris. I'm so cynical at this point. I'm like, you're playing a game, but maybe this is a way

I just, you know, it's just when I see him, I want to just like put him under my wing. Oh, girl, please. I see him and I want to throw a copy of The Blue's Eye at him. I'm sorry. Maybe I'm wrong. He ain't going to be a goddamn missy. I want him to find peace. I want him to find peace. I want that child to find peace. I truly do. I want him to find peace. But I do want to point out

The larger issue I'm seeing here with the Herschel Walker saga in Georgia, he's just one of a handful of really, really, really, really crappy GOP candidates for office this fall. True.

It's not just Herschel Walker paying for secret abortions. It's Dr. Oz who's trying to make it to the Senate from Pennsylvania. We just found out this week that as a doctor, he supervised medical trials that were responsible for the killing of more than 300 puppies. What?

Puppies. Yes. On top of that, you've got Doug Mastriano. He's trying to be the governor in Pennsylvania. He literally chartered buses to the January 6th insurrection. And part of his platform is threatening to ban pole dancing in public schools. That doesn't happen, my dude. Like he's that far off.

You know, even besides him, you got Marjorie Taylor Greene wrapped up in mess as well. There are any number of bad GOP candidates who were only still in the running because they support Donald Trump and they still say that the last election was stolen. There is a major candidate problem on the right. Herschel is just the tip of that iceberg. It makes me think of another struggling white institution, Broadway, in that...

The connective tissue in today's episode is doing so much work. Go ahead. A lot of Broadway shows resort to stunt casting, right? They will cast a famous celebrity who's not well known for the stage or singing and everything in a role just because they know people will come out and see a big name celebrity. Meanwhile, they're, you know, swing your arm and you can hit a qualified celebrity.

Broadway actor or performer in New York just waiting for that role. And it feels like, you know, the GOP for a long time has been doing something similar. And maybe it's, you know, part of a response to Trump and trying to recreate that phenomenon. But they want people who can make a scene, make a spectacle, quote unquote, pretend to shake up the system when really what they're looking for are pawns. But as we're seeing with Herschel Walker, he's not even a good pawn because he's not disciplined.

And also, mind you, Reverend Raphael Warnock is one of the most disciplined messengers I've ever seen. You cannot get that man to step up like he is. I mean, he seems like a good guy. He's truly done the work. I mean, he knows how to really connect with people. I love his ideas. But beyond all of that, he ain't going to make a mess. He's not going to make a fool of himself. He's not going to. And so I was like, why would you pick Herschel Walker to go against that person? Because he's black.

Because he's black. That's why they picked him. Because he's black. I will say, watching this whole saga unfold, it confirms for me that Democrats, if they want to win this November, they should be talking about abortion access every single day. That should be the issue, the only issue. Get out there. Say it loud. It feels like...

After Roe fell, there was a good two or three weeks of moral outrage over that. And then the left or the folks at the top of the left moved on. That's foolish. That is still the most salient issue for the left right now. We saw voters who identify as fathers vote.

move some 28 points from Republicans to Democrats in the weeks after Roe. It's a big deal. Democrats would be foolish to ignore it. And in honor of the Georgia elections, I will quote my fellow Southerners, tell the truth, shame the devil. And that's all they should be doing this election cycle. Just tell the truth about these people. But don't come out in the wash, comes out in the rinse. I always thought that was really good. Woof.

All right. We are going to wrap this segment, take another quick break, but do not go anywhere. We'll be right back with recommendations.

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Thank you for calling Amica Insurance. Hey, I was just in an accident. Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of. At Amica, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Amica. Empathy is our best policy. We are back. And before we end the show, first of all, what a week. Yeah.

What an episode. I think, frankly, you know, not to get high on our own supply, but girl, what an episode. This was our most chaotic taping, I think, so far. And I love it. It was a good chaotic energy. Sometimes you just have to thank the gods of the news cycle and just say, thank you for bestowing this on a Monday night so we can record it. But of course, we also like to share something that's helping each of us keep our vibe right. There's a lot of chaos out there. A lot of chaos. So what's making y'all feel good? What's helping you kind of manage it? Zach, how about you?

I must say, AMC is back to being that girl. AMC, the TV network. Because they have released their reboot or reimagining of Interview with a Vampire, which of course was an Anne Rice book that turned into a very big movie that was very gay, but wasn't explicitly gay with Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt in the 90s. I would argue like a major gay box office hit that was a rom-com secretly, you know, Interview with a Vampire. True.

They have made it to a television show and they said, screw subtext, we're going full text. And this is a show about an interracial vampire couple living in New Orleans, et cetera, et cetera. And it is so good. And it goes back and forth between, you know, I think it's early 1900s New Orleans and modern day Dubai. And they're coming out of the pandemic and the vampire, the protagonist, is wanting to tell his story to a journalist and write a book because so many people have died in the pandemic and he wants to reflect on vampires and death.

It is beautiful. It is gay. It is campy. It is everything you need. If bros didn't make you full, this will fill you up. I promise you. I've consistently heard enthusiasm, like exclamation points enthusiastic from really smart critics. And I love, I read like Queen of the Damned. So good. Oh, I love. A movie with Aaliyah. Although the Queen of the Damned movie. Yes.

But you know what? I was such an Anne Rice stan as a kid. I loved it. And it was Aaliyah, our goddess. I just really, Anne Rice. I mean, Anne Rice, I think, has long under, and you know, we can talk about the gothic horror genre. It's always been very queer. And I think she just found a way to make it glamorous and cool. And, you know, like, they're outsiders, but you want to be outside with them. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to seek it out. The first two episodes are out this week. It's so good. Just watch it. Okay. Okay. All right. Sam, what about you?

I want to recommend a podcast episode, a slate podcast called ICYMI, which stands for In Case You Missed It. They had an episode recently all about Serial, the hit podcast, the case against Adnan Syed, and how he got out of prison, I want to say a week or two ago now. And this episode, which is called Serial Didn't Free Adnan Syed, is perhaps the best take on

on the world that Serial created so many years ago. And it's got Rebecca Lavoie, Daisy Rosario, and Rochelle, their host, making some really, really good points. You know, we think of Serial as this hit that made podcasting podcasting.

In many ways, it's problematic. And no episode of any other podcast has gotten to the heart of that better than this episode of I See Why Am I. Go check it out. One of the voices in the chat, she makes the point that like serial was basically gentrification for true crime. It took this genre that was always seen as tacky and lowbrow and made it respectable enough for bougie white people.

And there was some good in that, but there was also some bad. Yeah. And now we see people making funny memes about Jeffrey Dahmer. There you go. But this episode, better than no other discussion of all this stuff in this moment of peak true crime, it gets at that. It makes some points. Please go check it out. It's really good. Oh, my God. Calling that gentrification, I'm going to be eating on that for a while. Rebecca did the work. I'm telling you. She has her own podcast called Crime Writers On that's also really good.

But that episode of Icy Why Am I is

is worth it. Okay, that's, because I personally have always found the true crime obsession pretty disturbing. It's exploitative. Yeah, it's difficult for, and I'm like returning, you know, something that was like the worst night of someone's life into entertainment, you know, but okay, interesting. Yeah. Saeed, what are you thinking? What about you, sir? Yeah, girl, well, while we continue to wait for Beyonce's visuals, I'm pleased to report that my second favorite black singer is back. That's right, Hayley Williams of Paramore. Ha!

My African-American queen. Oh, my God. My good sis. I am so excited that Paramore is back. I saw that they've been performing Misery Business a while. They were like, okay, Olivia Rodrigo, you want some Misery Business? You want to come for us? But also, they released a new single. It's called This Is Why. Here are the lyrics for now. It's just so good. This is why.

I was like, Paramore, you better speak to the moment. You better speak to the African-American experience in 2022. It's wild out here. We got Christian Walkers and Billy Eichners on the street yelling at us. This is why I don't leave the house. Saeed is trying to give Paramore an NAACP Image Award. They should get one. Black people love Paramore, and I do not understand why. We do.

We love Paramore. And I will say, Hayley Williams replied to one of my tweets once, and to this day, I smile every time I think about it. She's from Tennessee like me. I know her. She's amazing. And black people just really love Paramore.

Well, here's the thing about rock. Black people will deal with a rock band if the vocalist can sing. And she can sing. And she can sing. She can fucking sing. I still think After Laughter came out in 2016. I think it's still one of my favorite albums probably for the last 10 years. So good.

In the same regard, I feel like black people also fuck with Fall Out Boy because that lead singer could sing. He could belt. He can. We're there for the talent. I'm seeing Panic! at the Disco in two weeks, which is a similar genre. Too much bisexual lighting. That is big panic is big bisexual lighting. It is.

Love them. Oh my God. It is funny because Jake Wesley Rogers is opening for them, who is like the next Elton John, who's openly queer singer, also lived in Nashville. And yeah, calling them bisexual lighting. I love that. They're bisexual lighting. That is funny. Bisexual lighting with a band. Yes. Oh my gosh.

That's our recommendations for the week. And honestly, these recommendations were as chaotic as the week. So it worked. But what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's your vibe? Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform. A huge thanks to our producer, Chantel Holder, the longest suffering, most amazing producer. We love you so much, Chantel. She puts up with so much.

Bless you. Thanks to our engineer, Brendan Burns. Thanks to Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least, thank you to Jared O'Connell and Imelda Skender for all their help.

And listeners, don't forget, we want to hear from you. You can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Twitter at Zach Stafford, at The Ferocity, and at Sam Sanders. Use the hashtag vibecheckpod. Also, follow us on TikTok at vibecheckpod, which I'm now getting texts from people with our clips, which is really disorienting for me. Anyway, stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Bye!

Stitcher. Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then, there are moments that remind us to be more human. Thank you for calling Amica Insurance. Hey, I was just in an accident. Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of. At Amica, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking.

♪♪♪

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