Pumpkin Spice is Not My Ministry
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I was just about to sing Hey Ladies. I felt it. In Destiny's Child version. Hey ladies. There we go. We got it. Keep it in Chantel. Well, hey ladies. Y'all gonna sing that? No. Latavia Latoya. That would be disrespectful. Okay. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Safford. And you're listening to Five Check.

Oh my goodness, we are back from vacation, and apparently so is the news cycle. I feel like it's happening. It's here. We're talking this week about how misguided and out of touch some celebrities are. That's a very diplomatic phrasing for their behavior. That's very diplomatic. You're quite nice. We're going to be very sweet, and then we're going to let it rock and roll. And we're going to give Doja Cat her demonic flowers. Literally black roses. Yeah, black roses, black roses.

Black poisoned roses, even though, of course, there is nothing that Doja Cat hates more than love from fans. Nothing seems to piss her off more, and I'm excited to talk about it. But before we get into all of that, Zach, there was some breaking news I know you wanted to at least highlight for a moment. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So over the weekend, as you all most likely have heard, there was a devastating earthquake in Morocco, specifically the Atlas Mountains. It was a 6.9 earthquake. It's the largest one that's hit in about a century.

Currently, according to Reuters, over 2,900 people have died and 5,500 are injured and many cannot access resources due to the terrain of the country. And resources are really, really limited right now.

And it's a really devastating thing to wake up in here just because it is yet another natural disaster that's rocking the world. But also, I have a lot of friends there. I have many friends that have moved to Marrakesh to build businesses and help empower local folks. So it's just a really personally sad story to hear and something I woke up out of bed being like, oh my God, are my friends with us still? And it just feels like a lot of us every day are waking up to news due to natural disasters of like, are people okay? So...

You know, if you're feeling overwhelmed by the news, NBC News has this incredible article that you will see in our show notes today that links to ways that you can help in many different ways the Moroccan people as they recover from such a tragedy today.

Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up. I think it's really easy when you see these events happen on the other side of the world, but they're people too. And just imagine if this happened down the street from you. The same devastation, same damage, same lives disrupted. Yeah. It does feel like lately we've been reminded how life can pivot at the turn of a moment so quickly for so many people. And I just think

I don't know, I'm very sensitive to that these days. And, you know, I want to point to moments like this when they happen just because these are people. These are people living their lives, you know, trying to just get through it day by day. And now everything has been turned over. I think over 300,000 people were directly impacted overnight because of this. Yeah.

I'm fact-checking myself, but I mean, the scale is just wild and everything in that region. I mean, eastern Libya is dealing with devastating floods. But also, I'm pretty sure this morning when I was making my coffee before we started taping, I think there's, the term is a little different, but essentially like a hurricane in the Mediterranean, that's called something else. But I think it's headed for the North African region and could impact places like Libya and Morocco, which are

like you said, still recovering. So yeah. And it does tie to like what we were talking about last week, Saeed, when you brought up the alkaline in the dirt in the Nevada deserts with the Burning Man, is that when water does hit this area, which will happen probably very soon, it will make this disaster even worse due to how the mud will kind of form and everything will happen. So yeah, we're beginning to see how climate change is really beginning to topple and kind of

compound on top of each other right now. And it's really frightening, terrifying actually. - Yeah. - Well with that, how are we doing outside, you know, being at the end of the world to quote the poet, Sayid Jones, how are we feeling today, everybody? - What a coup of me to trademark the apocalypse in 2021. I was really on it, wasn't I? - Mother Earth, I just cut you a check. Mother Earth. - Mother Earth should cut Sayid a check.

I guess I'll go first. I'm ready for summer to pack it up. I'll say that. I'll tell you that. Really? Why, the heat? Get out of here. It's last call. Well, one actually related is I think because of climate change, I feel like the idea of summer for many people is related to nostalgia. It's related to how we experienced it, especially as kids. And like, I feel like that summer doesn't exist anymore. Yeah.

Summer where we live means like wildfires and heat waves and droughts and all kinds of calamity. And so I just kind of feel like fall is the new summer. But also here in Columbus, like it's tailgating season has just started. We had our first home game this weekend. I was not out there because I just I prefer to start going tailgating in later September. But it's just always striking to see people walk.

Walking past your apartment drunk at 7 o'clock in the morning. But I was like, oh, okay. Autumn is upon us. I just, I don't know. Maybe it's, I just, I enjoy the sense of change. The way it feels like, oh, we're moving forward. You know, let's get that energy as a writer, as a reader. There's a lot that I'm looking forward to this fall. So, yeah, I am calling it. Said is ready for summer to end.

Aside with the, I guess, embrace of fall, what changes in your day-to-day life that feels very fall? You know, pumpkin spice is a thing. I feel like a lot of people are like, oh, now I can order pumpkin spice. Not these people. Not these people. You better get out of here with that. Pumpkin spice is not my ministry, as you well know. Sweet potato spice, okay? Sweet potato spice. Don't play pumpkin spice. Please don't let them find out about sweet potato sound. Don't do that.

Zaid, is there something you switched to that you're like, okay, I'm going to start drinking hot coffee. I'm starting to cook this. The first thing, and I will say this. So my last day in New York before I flew back to Columbus, it was 94 degrees outside. So I would say, and then I got back to Columbus and it was a nice day.

75. So the first thing that happens is I'm able to go in my closet and start pulling out different kinds of clothes, more variety. I've always felt like dressing nicely or chicly as a man during the summer, I just think it's a little bit more difficult.

You know what I mean? It just gets a little weird. So, yeah, the first thing is I start like the sense of variety and putting together look. Like the last night I went to dinner with a friend, just, you know, dinner and cocktails. And it was just so nice to like, you know, grab a purse, grab a little light jacket that I haven't worn in like four months. So that's the first thing for me. Love it. Fall fashion. And it is fashion week. So there you go. Fall for me means two things.

I'm going to spend less money. Every summer, I'm out in these streets too much, spending too much money. Beyonce has maxed out both of my credit cards. So I'm ready for all of this sit down. Beyonce's been holding a gun to your head all summer long. Also, I'm just ready to turn this damn AC off. I'm running that bill, running that bill, running that bill. I've had the windows open. I've closed them for taping. We're like two weeks away from that. But I'm ready. We're almost there in LA. I agree. I'm ready for the AC to be off. Yeah.

I'm also ready. I realized that the anxiety of being invited to a pool party or some really outdoor social thing is now weaning. So I'm really happy, which means that I can actually dress the ways I want to dress because I'd be saying dressing in the summer and doing something chic in the summer is just awful. And then you have to wear like a suit to a special event at night. You're sweating. You get it. It's just awful. Also, I will always take

a little bonfire fall winter party over a summer pool party. And you have that beautiful little fire pit in your back. Yeah. It's like the perfect place. On your estate. Don't you keep telling these listeners that. I see you, Oprah Sanders. We're on to you. Sam Baseman. We're on to you. Sam Baseman.

We are all kidding. His humble, multi-acre estate in Los Angeles. It be your own people. It be your own people. Wow. My vibe is, let me turn this mic off. That's my vibe. Sam's like, I'm leaving you out.

But no, how is your vibe beyond that? In all seriousness, my vibe this week is watching what is potentially going to be a really, really big story. The United Auto Workers. These are the auto workers who make cars for the big three Ford, Chevy, Dodge Chrysler. They're very close to a strike and they may be striking by the end of the week.

They've got a really strong and tough union leader who is saying, don't F with us. A few weeks ago, a proposal sent by the corporate heads of the big three auto companies. This dude put it in the trash on a Facebook Live. He is not screwing around.

Ooh, and on Facebook Live. Look, that's when you know boomers aren't fucking around. They're not fucking around. And these asks seem big upon their face, but actually these workers kind of deserve it. They're asking for a very large pay increase, up to like 40%. They are asking for a four-day work week, not a five-day work week.

They're asking for the return of pensions. And you might say, well, that's not fair. That's not right. That's too much. But when you look at how the auto industry is doing, their profits have hit a record high. So Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep saw U.S. sales fall by 13% last year. Honda saw a 33% drop in sales. Nissan had a 25% drop. Toyota, a 10% drop. But...

The profit for these companies was $32 billion just through the third quarter of 2022. And executive compensation has gone up double digits.

And most car dealerships right now every year are pulling in a profit after everything's paid for of $6.5 million. So everyone's getting more except these auto workers. And can I interject here? Because I know Sam was doing his due diligence as an excellent journalist and saying, you might say that's too much. That's, you know, like it's important to acknowledge that pushback. But to listeners, if you sincerely think that,

Like if you hear that auto workers are, for example, pushing for something like a 40% pay raise and your genuine and immediate responses to bulk at it, I want you to sit at why. First of all, it's not coming out of your pockets. Yeah, it's not your money. They're not going into your boss's office and stealing out of your paycheck that you're being undermined with, right? Like it's just interesting that occasionally I've seen that. Like recently I saw a TikTok of someone who I think works as a nurse

who was complaining about airline flight attendants pushing for higher pay. And she was like, they're getting paid more than I am as a nurse. Do you know what they have to deal with? They have to deal with diarrhea plane. Pay them everything. Also that. Don't even get me. Oh my God. I just forgot about that goddamn diarrhea plane. I saw the images, y'all. It was. I did too. I watched the video.

But this is the thing. Like, if you are an underpaid nurse and you find out that airline flight attendants are agitating to get paid more money, they're not the problem. Yeah. The corporation that runs your hospital is the problem. So I just want to draw attention to that dynamic. Just to talk about how these corporations are not on anyone's side, the workers or the consumers.

While these auto companies have made record profits, while car dealerships have made record profits, the average price of a new car has gone up astronomically.

Right now, the average new car price in America is $48,000. It's virtually impossible to find a new car for under 30 grand these days. That's the MSRP price. Every dealership due to demand is going to go $10,000, $15,000 over that price too when you go to buy it, then tax.

and everything. So it is really expensive. And the car market seeing a huge new part of their market open up with the emergence of electric vehicles. Exactly. Which are even more expensive. They're even more expensive. So no, they're making a lot of money. Pay the people that are making it. Pay the people. Move on. And let me tell you what's like actually really hard work. Building a car. It's not easy. Pay these folks. Pay these folks. Anywho, my vibe is watching that strike, raising my fist in solidarity. UAW, I support.

I love it. Zach, how are you doing? I'm really good. I just got back to LA. I was on like a whirlwind of many cities over the past week for work and personal stuff. And something came up on my trips around this United States that I had to bring up on the show. It deals with Beyonce. Sam, you brought it up. No, I didn't meet her. God, this would be a whole different show. I would have waited until an episode of Live Check to tell me you met Beyonce Giselle Mould. Why?

No, I would have FaceTimed y'all like immediately after. No, no. What has come up? And I say this knowing that people who have said this to me listen to the show. So I'm bringing it up with love. And it's only because it's being said to me in every city. And I'm just confused.

So people know that I have seen Beyonce a few times Sam seen her more. I think say you're gonna see her again We all love Beyonce on this show Yeah so people come to us and talk to us about Beyonce the one thing a lot of people say to me when they come up to me about Beyonce is Saw the show and typically they love it the people that don't love it always say this thing She was too perfect and I'm just always who are you running with?

People keep saying she's too perfect. She's not showing enough emotion, all this stuff, which I'm confused. She's not showing enough emotion. They were,

They weren't there with us in the trenches during the Beyonce experience. They know nothing of what it's like to see Beyonce not showing emotion. Oh, my God. So that keeps being said. I'm like, okay, sure. Like, you want her to be, I don't know, not as amazing as she is or intimidated by her power, whatever. But every person that says she's too perfect says this next thing, and I don't think it makes sense. They say she's too perfect, and then they bring up Blue Ivy.

And they say, why am I watching an 11-year-old dance not very great? What is that moment? Why does she have it? She needs to be better, et cetera, et cetera. And we talked about in the last episode, you can have criticism to Blue Ivy's dancing because it's on a world stage.

What I do not understand is you're telling me you didn't like the show because it was too perfect. And then in the moment in which she shows some humanity and has her daughter there, you don't like it. So you just are looking for every excuse not to like Beyonce and I'm over it. I'm sorry. Also, I was at that birthday show. She was so emotional. Before she sang the first song, she was in tears thanking us for the chance to make a safe space for us. Diana Ross on that stage making her cry. She was fully emoting. I'm...

I'm confused, but what I have learned in my travels post-Beyonce High is that when someone says she's too perfect, they will say her daughter wasn't good enough, and I'm confused at what you want out of the Knowles-Carter family. I will say, Papa Knowles would not have let Blue Ivy out there like that if he were still in charge. Because he had them girls. Don't you dare fucking invoke that asshole. Here's what I would say. I think it feels to me that it's related to you're pretty for a black girl.

There is a way in which, particularly with black women, even when beauty or talent, intelligence is a fact. Coco Gauff is one of the best. It's a fact. Serena is a fact. Beyonce is a fact. It's a fact. Even when people can't get around it, they just really can't without looking pretty silly.

They have to find a way to ding her because why, why, why would we want to just acknowledge without bitterness or jealousy that black women can be incredible? And so I think it's like, oh, you're too perfect. But also, oh, why you have your, like, they, they don't care. They don't care. Yeah. And I just, I just take those kinds of statements. Now I'm kind of like, who are you running with? I just, I, my thing, and this is, I feel like it's going to run through our conversations.

Sure, I'm interested in what celebrities do, their comings and goings to a certain extent, but I'm more interested in how people in my life respond, like the back and forth.

Because I'm like, well, if you're saying that about Beyonce, what are you saying, for example, about other Black women in your life? You know, did you pass up someone in your office for a raise because that Black woman, she's just a little too perfect. She's just not a cultural fit. You know what I mean? Yeah. I also just feel like that's a lazy way to critique someone like Beyonce. There are some really substantive debates to be had about what she represents. I'm really interested in a conversation about Beyonce and Jay-Z's relationship.

consumption and hyper capitalism. Yeah. Let's have that conversation. That's a real conversation. She's too perfect is

is not a real conversation. I do not believe Beyonce is perfect and I'm happy to debate some shit, but have it be a real thing. Exactly. I agree. And I think to like land the plane with all this, you're exactly right in the fact that we on the show believe that how we all respond to celebrity, pop culture, the culture, what we take away from moments that go viral, tell us a lot about us as people, each of us around us. And that's what we're going to do today to as context to all the conversations we're having is that like,

we're using these as a place to have a deeper conversation about the world around us. And celebrities are that lightning rod. Sorry, that's what fame is. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, before we get into the episode, we want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail and reached out to us on social media. Use the hashtag VibeCheckPod. We love looking at it. It's my favorite thing to do if I'm hungover is just to see the nice things people are saying. That's what you do when you're hungover. That's right. You're a hangover cure.

I just sit on my phone. I can't do anything else. I just look at things and read things. I can't engage with the world around me in a real way, so I just read passively. But keep it all coming. You can send us notes personally at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And with that, I think it's time for us to jump in. Shall we? Let's do it. Let's do it.

Okay, so for our first segment today, I want to talk about celebrities and what I'm calling weaponized sunshine. Look, it's not unusual for celebrities to get a little lost in the plot, but some of these million-dollar nepo babies have gone especially astray lately. Last week, actor and proud Scientologist Danny Masterson was sentenced to 30 years to life for raping two women. The

The internet found out that Ashton Kutcher, Mila Kunis, and also, I believe, 48 other people, including other cast members of that 70s show, and Billy Baldwin. I don't remember which one he is. But anyway, many of these people signed these leniency letters, similar to what Igloo Azalea did on behalf of Tory Lanez. Igloo Azalea. My lord. One of us is a poet. One of us is a poet. One of us. Who? Where? Who?

But of course, Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunitz are easily the most famous of those 50 people, right? And so, yeah, the internet found out. They were like, what do you mean you wrote leniency letters on behalf of a now convicted rapist? That's fucked up. Many people, including...

At least one of the victims, I saw her tweeting about it in a true Twitter moment. She was posting these letters about to come up. They're really frustrating and upsetting. And someone replied being like, how do you know? You're jumping to conclusions. She was like, I'm one of the victims in this case. So yeah, I do know information you don't. Wow.

Woo! But I wanted to stop here for a second. Zach and Sam, a lot of stuff going on there already. What was your reaction to finding out they wrote these letters? Why do you think it was so messed up? I mean, I was shocked. Listen, I was baffled that they wrote these letters because like,

Even the Tory Lanez letters, I was confused with. I was like, I get that y'all are friends for this man, but you do know how this works. You write a letter and it will go out into the public, which then I'm like, okay, then you're really supportive of this person's alleged behaviors. So when this happened, I

I was like, weren't Mila and Ashton the faces of anti-sex trafficking and all? They've got the whole career around human rights and stopping sexual abuse. And yet they have room in their heart to defend a now convicted rapist. I just baffled. And Ashton Kutcher's a smart guy. He's like a- He's a mogul at this point. Yeah. He counts himself as this brilliant thought leader. And this was the most thoughtless or horrible thing he could have done, in my opinion. My thing with this is,

It just feels like it's been a year of celebrities not taking advice from their teams, from their comms folks, from their PR folks. It's also a year of celebrities forgetting the golden rule of celebrity. Which is? If you say it on a mic or write it down,

It is public. One way or another. Maybe not immediately, but someone will find out about it. And so I just don't understand how they made this forced error after we saw the whole Tory Lanez foolishness. These...

Someone needs to either pay their people better or listen to their people more, but you didn't have to do this. I appreciate you said that because I feel like after the strike is over and these studios meet the demands of SAG and the WGA, I would love to see a movie. Imagine like a dark comedy.

about an actor who has the letter, the leniency letter, essentially in the mail. I don't think they mail these things anymore. But then sees what happens with Iggy Azalea and Tory Lanez, and the entire film is an actor doing everything they can to get that letter stopped for reaching the court. It's like get him to the Greek, but on the letter. I love it. Girl, why would you do that? I'm confused. And we've all worked, been around, know a bunch of celebrities, and we know how much they have to think about

public perception of them and how they're being looked at. I mean, like, I spend more time talking to famous people about what they're going to wear on a red carpet that I know that, like, they are also thinking about giving a letter to defend someone. You have to be thinking in the future for that. So I was really shocked that they put out a video soon after because the video part was like, if you were so... Well, let's talk about the video. Right. Why were they trying to look impoverished in the video? Come on with it.

Look, impoppers in the video. So if you haven't been following this, as if, again, a man who was convicted of raping two people. This is a very severe crime and just like a horrible injustice. Why would you try to jump in front of that car? But then to make it even worse, I'm calling them Ashy Kutcher and Mildew Kunis.

sat down in front of the one- - Wow. - The one homely looking wall on their entire six acre property in Beverly Hills. Yes, I went to Architectural Digest. - It's distressed. - I was like, this distressed wall. It is distressed, it is. And they recorded a video. I think they posted it to like Instagram. - Mila didn't have no makeup on. She was wearing one of Ashton's ratty ass t-shirts. - The ratty ass t-shirt they could borrow from the nearest intern.

Mila, in fact, looked a little peaked, one might even say. But what was interesting to me is in this so-called apology video, I don't know what they would call it. What was interesting is that the real mistake they acknowledged was assuming that the letter to the judge would be private.

It was not fighting for leniency for convicted rapists because, as Ashton argued in his letter, he's the father. He has daughters. And the way he acts now, which is like, what? Excuse me? Yeah. But it was that they assumed that this would be private. And so I just – it's striking to me because, again, they emphasize they stand with victims. And so I just –

What's going on?

One thing I would not do. Hell no. Even though I love you both very dearly is write a letter of support for your foolish behavior. Don't do it. I can love you as a friend. I can love you as family and say, there's a difference between me loving you and me supporting your foolishness. To your point, like loving a person in this situation is making sure they're held accountable.

accountable and that other people get their justice. That is what love would look like here. Love is not saying, okay, you get away with it. You get away with raping too. But like, what is, I just cannot fathom a world in which I would, any of my friends, family members, et cetera, that I would be like, I'm going to write a letter to defend you for something you did that's

horrible. Yeah. Also this idea that just because they were nice to me, they can't possibly have been that bad to anybody else. Yes. That keeps happening and it's so dumb. And that's what I'm talking about. We're going to get to that. We're going to get to that because that's an excellent example of weaponized sunshine, that weaponized niceness. Look, I would even say, look, if you wanted to sit in that courtroom every week

To be like, look, I'm there to make sure my longtime friend Danny Masterson knows that even as he goes through this really gauntlet of accountability, we're gonna be there for him. He's not alone, but he needs to be held responsible. That at least I can see because I'm like, sure, you can be there for someone without trying to stand as a buffer between them and consequences. I think that's a significant difference. But here's the thing, because as Sam noted, it's not just as

and Mildew before Gen Z could even finish Googling what is that 70s show. The Drew Barrymore show resumed filming during the obviously ongoing WGA strike. Now, I want to say Drew Barrymore has like something kind of a waiver from SAG, so that's a little different. But Zach, as our local Hollywood correspondent, would you just explain for anyone who doesn't get it why this is just really bad? Yeah, so...

The bare minimum, what you should understand here is she's getting backlash because she does employ WGA writers and the WGA made her show a struck show when the strike happened. So they informed them, you guys would be crossing the picket line if you come back. Her, Jennifer Hudson, our dear friend, we go on that show. All of them went off air for summer before the strike even began. So they've never had to really deal with it. Now all of them are having to deal with it because they're coming back.

And they're all weaseling their way across the line because they're like, well, girl...

We only have a few writers, and our show isn't really propelled by a lot of scripted content like the nightly shows are. So we're going to just go forward because the larger economies are on our show. All the people that work on it need their jobs back. And people are specifically focused on Drew Barrymore because in the beginning of the strike, she became the darling of the strike movement because she did not do the MTV VMAs because of the strike. Because they have writers. Exactly, because they have writers. So now she's at a turnabout and people are...

rightfully upset. And here's what I find so confusing about it. The logic that she and her team have tried to spin to justify coming back without these WGA writers, it doesn't make sense. For a while, they were saying, well, we have to come back and we have to have writing because we're a new show. Girl, it ain't a new show. Then they were saying, well, we can come back because we don't rely on writers too much. Well, which is it? And

And then, you know, it's like what no one wants to say and what no one wants to admit is that a daytime talk show like Drew Barrymore's, even if most of the conversations are banter, someone is always writing those questions for her. And someone is always writing the copy that gets you into each segment.

So what she's basically saying is we're not going to bring back the official writers. We're just going to push the writing duty off onto producers or editors or somebody else. Someone's still going to be writing for Drew's show. She's just going to be a scab and not have union folks do it. Right.

Like, don't try to act like the Drew Barrymore show is so vital to the American psyche that you have to break all these rules to do it. Either you stand in solidarity or you don't, Drew. This ain't 60 minutes, okay? Like, stop taking yourself so seriously. And I would say there is a path forward for all the shows coming back because Tamron Hall-

Who is an actual journalist, by the way. Yeah, who's actually a journalist. But all the other shows have come back. And what you do in that moment, like we've seen at Venice, at TIFF, is that if you must go forward working, even if you are crossing the line like Drew Barrymore, then make your show a lightning rod to have the conversation. So if she would have come out and been like, I know three of my writers won't be working on this, but every day we're going to drill in and really go after the strike and use the show to bring the spotlight because all these actors will be on it, that would have been a wholly different thing.

thing. But she was like, no, we're coming back and we're just doing the show and we're not bringing the people. And you're like, wait a minute. It's interesting. I was like, it would still require people to cross the picket line to have them a guest. But I was like, well, maybe Drew will have like striking writers, striking actors, people who've been impacted by the studio's greed, you know, on to kind of talk about it. And I was like, I guess that could maybe be interesting. But

One, that didn't happen. And two, two random audience members, college students, were really excited to see the show. You know, I think they got tickets months ago. They didn't understand all this was going on. They had to cross the picket line. Protesters gave them those cute little pins. You know, these are

pins that you wear in your lapel. It's not like a huge sign by any means. They ended up getting kicked out of Drew's studio audience. Because they were wearing a WGA pin. Yeah. So I'm like, wow, not only are you kind of trying to use this as, and I think that would still be spin to be like, oh, I'm doing this to highlight the strike and all of that. But like you're kicking out, you're trying to pretend like the strike isn't even happening on camera. Also what's wild is that the really crappy statement that Drew released about

about why they were making the show without writers only proved even more why Drew Barrymore needs writers. I'm not going to read it to you because I respect the English language, but these writers are professionals who deserve fair compensation. And I'm sorry, Drew, Stan, we're striking workers. Also, fun fact,

She's scheduled to host, was it like the National Book Awards? The National Book Awards. LOL. A celebration of writers. Because she loves writers so much. And I believe Oprah is scheduled to give a speech at the awards that night too. I'm sure there'll be a picket line. So here's my thing. So what I'm getting from both Ashton, Mila, and Drew's statements is...

is when I say weaponized sunshine, what I'm trying to say is like this niceness, the sense of morality. It seems to me that they believe that they actually have a higher, more superior sense of morals than the rest of us. Like for Ashton and Mila, it feels like they're saying, well, y'all don't really understand what it means to be a good friend.

To be a good friend means to show up hell or high water. We're ride or die for our rapist Scientologist friend, Danny. And for Drew, it was so interesting in her statement. She was like in these difficult, messy, chaotic, unprecedented times.

People need the Drew Barrymore show. People need the Drew Barrymore show. It's not just newsworthy. It's just so important that I sit on the floor, take off my shoes, sit way too close to my guest and play with my hair. What would you do? And so I just...

It is annoying when celebrities do it, but I want us to pay attention to people in our lives, our coworkers, our friends, our community members who also do this, where their sense of, oh, the sunshine that I'm providing overrides basic things like solidarity. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Also, this is another thing that I want to say one of y'all shared something about in the group chat a few days ago. Also, what we're seeing here is

is these celebrities being rabid and feral. This strike has them shook. They're not getting attention. They just lived through COVID where they were not getting as much attention. They're starving. They're starving for attention. They're also like their sense of reality has been warped because like

These celebrities are like sharks. If they don't move and keep getting attention, they're not breathing. And so some of it I feel like is just the insanity the last five years have given celebrities and actors. It's real. And maybe it's also influence. Like in the case of Mila and Ashton, they didn't want attention. That's what they're saying. But they believed that they could influence a criminal proceeding. Yeah.

With their name. Yeah, exactly. They were using their celebrity in that moment privately and then got caught doing it. Their senses of egos have been effed. I mean, celebrities always have a weird sense of ego, but the last several years have taken them off the deep end. Well, it's time for us to break, but stay tuned. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

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All right, we are back and we're going to switch gears now to a celebrity that I think all three of us like. Her name is Doja Cat. Have you heard of her? Purr, as Saeed says. I do love that little demonic girl. I really do. And I want to talk about her for a second. To be like, you know what? You're doing it right. You're doing it right.

So this is the week of Doja Cat because her newest single, Paint the Town Red, just hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100. And it's the first rap song to hit number one on that chart, the chart of the land, in like a year. Just nothing but white boys singing Black women's country songs. For a year, there were no rap songs topping the charts. It was a lot of country and a lot of pop. And Doja said, not on my watch. But

But I find this all kind of crazy because in July of this summer, the thinking was that Doja Cat was canceled because of some really weird interactions with her fans. I'm sure you both can recall this. This past July, some Doja fans online had tweeted her saying that they've begun calling themselves kittens in honor of Doja Cat with a Z at the end.

And Doja was like, that's weird. She messaged them back and said, quote, if you call yourself kitten or kittens, that means you need to get off your phone and get a job and help your parents. She continued in a later tweet, just delete the entire account and rethink everything. It's never too late.

It's amazing. And then she goes on. So then other fans pile in and they're basically like, you should love us. You should respect us. We made you who you are. You should tell us you love us right now, Doja. And then she wrote, I don't though, because I don't even know y'all.

I love it. All right, Conrad. And then someone else was like, you wouldn't have anything without us. And then Doja writes back, nobody forced you. I don't know why you're talking to me like you're my mother, bitch. You sound like a crazy person. After this, Doja loses literally a million followers on multiple platforms. Wait, a million people? In like a day. In like a day. And everyone's like, Doja's over. Flash forward to now, number one hit. How?

How do we feel about this, y'all? How do we feel about this? Well, first of all, Paint the Town Red has that excellent Dionne Warwick sample. Excellent. And so I was like, look, no weapon formed against a Dionne Warwick sample will prosper. I know that. I will tell you that. Shout out to Whitney Houston's cousin, Miss Dionne. The song bangs.

Every single from this new upcoming album is great. There's one called Demons that's great. There's one called Attention that's great. I like Attention. Doja's rapping. I love it. And on Attention, she says, like, you don't actually give a fuck about the music. So to me, I'm like, look, I don't... Okay, so I feel like this whole episode, it's somewhat related, right? Because in both conversations, obviously the stakes are very different, but you kind of find yourself wondering what the publicist would say, right?

If I was Doja Cat's publicist, I'd be like, well, that's exactly how I would have worded that. But if you look at these comments, I feel like these are something that years from now, we will say, wow, that artist Doja Cat was ahead of her time. What was going on in 2023 with fans throwing things at the stage, parasocial relationships going wild. Maybe she was one of those pop stars who were calling for a reset.

Maybe she's someone like now when we look back at the early 2000s and Britney Spears and we go, she was crazy. She was messy. We go, no, she was drawing our attention to something. She's preserving herself. Yeah.

Yeah. So again, maybe I wouldn't like go help your family get a job. Like, I don't know if I would say that, but I feel like she was reasserting a boundary. Yeah, I agree. And I think like we all forget that Doja Cat is still quite young. I think she's 27, but she's been doing this for years and years and years. And she became a star from the internet. Like she's kind of like a troll that crawled her way up out of like the trenches of digital living. So she knows exactly the game she's playing. Like, I don't think this wasn't thought out.

It does feel like it is the lead up to this like other character, this demon character of her, which is a very popular thing to do within pop music is to create your like alternative version of yourself. So it feels like this is part of that rollout. But also beyond that, I think some of these fans need some boundaries given to them.

You need to not have such a parasocial relationship where you're clinking. Like, you know this person. You have no idea who they are. And you just like their music. And I think, like, it's funny of her to use this or deploy this tactic and now have the first rap song to go number one this summer or this year, rather. It's amazing. I also love how, like...

No matter what, there's an artistry with her music and her performance that just makes you say, I can forgive anything she says. This girl is talented. The work is good. You watch these videos. It's amazing. You watch her live performances. It's amazing. You even watch the song she wrote for that Taco Bell ad. It's a bop. It's a bop. She's just good. And so I just hope, I don't know, I think a lot of celebrities could take a lesson from Doja Cat. Like,

Don't get it twisted. Preserve your art. That's what we're here for anyway. Make the art. We'll come back for that. Whether you tell us you love us or not, girl. She represents what I hope is like a new model. Don't pretend like we're best friends. Don't pretend, you know, like we're all in this together. You're a rich celebrity. I come to you for bops. Give it to me. Thank you, Doja. Now, Doja Cat, you listen to me right now.

You listen to me right now. Don't you embarrass us. Don't you embarrass Vibe Check. I'm out here standing for you, girl. I'm out here. Don't you embarrass your three aunties on this podcast. Don't take it too far. Because we will not write you a letter of support. It will not happen. No letter of support. Okay? But yeah, I mean, and also the other thing I just...

She's a woman. She's a black woman. And I feel like I can't imagine, like we know of interactions. We know of interactions between fans and celebrities when the celebrities say something about it or highlight it generally. But I like can't imagine about the things that have happened in private that we might not know about for years that Doja Cat probably has to deal with from overzealous fans.

who claim they love her. And so I always try to keep that in mind too. But yeah, I don't know. And also the thing about it is too, maybe her statements are so over the top. Because literally the language, the behavior and rhetoric of Stan is

is over the top. If we remember, the term stan comes from a stalker. It comes from that damn Eminem song. People forget. It's so funny that the concept of being... I call myself a Beyonce stan. It's been normalized to be fairly positive and just like someone who's really an enthusiastic fan. No, it's a stalker. That's actually what it's about. So maybe she's saying, I don't like the road this is going down. I feel like maybe I'm putting too much of a sugar coat on her. She's a little rude. I'm like, don't spit on them. But...

But what she goes back, what she says, I can't say I love you because I really don't know you. I don't know you. That's reasonable. Also, I don't know. Maybe it's something about me, but

Few things make me love someone more than when they're a little mean to me. So do I think we live in a culture right now where we want more humanity from our celebrities. And I'm sorry that humanity is not, you know, lollipops and sunshine all the time. It's kind of like with Cardi B throwing the mic. I saw the interview she did with the Breakfast Club. She's the real one. She was like,

Listen, that was 20 minutes before that I told them to throw water on me. Even when that happened, I said, be careful with my face. Then 20 minutes later, that girl threw ice in my face and...

And of course, I see it's been my face. My verse inclination is to throw something back at somebody. I wasn't thinking about it. I thought I was going to go to jail. So I'm like, these people are people. They're not like created in a lab, perfect robots. These are just people living their lives and they're not going to be perfect all the time. And sometimes they don't want them that way. When we say someone's too perfect, when we say they're not showing us enough of their own humanity, I feel like that feels very gendered because what do we want? Do we want to see women being

Do we want to see them crying? Do we want to see them holding pictures of a baby? Like, what is the humanity that they are giving you that you believe you deserve from them? Because I just don't buy it. Something about it feels a little...

Yeah. Well, that is actually a really great kind of there's like a big theoretical feminism paper out of what you're saying around what we expect of femininity these days in stardom and that like you got to be. I mean, it's very much a justification because these boys get to do the least. Drake just shows up at this point.

Like he just shows up. And collects bras and posts pictures of us. What was that? Which is weird. What was that? Look, as a formatted closet teenager who knows the lengths to which we will go at that point in our lives to prove that we're actually straight. It was giving closeted teenager. It was giving Tim Scott, I have a real life girlfriend. I swear, I just can't show her to you. Why are you collecting bras? How?

We have skipped, hopped, and jumped away from the plot, but I'm going to pull us back. I think the moral of my Doja Cat story is just make good shit. And I don't need celebrities to act like we're best friends. I don't. And you know what? I have to remind myself this when I think about Beyonce. Y'all know I love Beyonce. We all do. But she ain't my friend. She's a billionaire. I like the music. I like the shows.

But don't ever let me get it twisted and think that Beyonce is worried about me. Not at all. I also don't want to meet her because I know it's not going to live up to the hype. So I'm good. It's going to disappoint you. I guess what I'm trying to say is, you know, maybe Doja Cat came at it a very windabout way. But here's my advice for pop music fans.

I think you will be much happier in the long run if you focus on saying, I really love that person's music. That person is such a good performer. Have you seen this video clip of Doja Cat turning it out? Man, she delivers every time. When you start saying, I love him, I love her, I know him, I know her, you're setting yourself up for a very different dynamic. And it's easy to get your feelings hurt to say the right thing. Yeah.

All this to say, children, go check out the videos for the Doja Cat songs, Paint the Town Red and Demons. They're really interesting. The video for Demons has Doja Cat dressed up like a monster with big boobs and jewelry haunting Christina Ricci.

Is that the one where she's wearing kitten heels? Yes, while dressed as like a black goblin. Poet Danez Smith was like, why the hell is a demon wearing God-fearing heels? Because that's what kitten heels are. It's amazing. Anywho, Doja, I don't know you, so I don't love you, but I like the music. Wednesday, I'm looking forward to the album. There we go. Yes, yes. All right, we're going to be right back after a quick break with some recommendations for y'all. Don't go anywhere.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, WeAreGolden.

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All right, everyone, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. And I just want to throw to Sam Sanders because I love what he's about to share. And I haven't listened to the whole thing yet. So, Sam, what's keeping your vibe right this week? What's keeping my vibe right is Olivia Rodrigo's new album, Guts. Oh, okay, purr. I was a fan of her since Driver's License.

But she is doing the damn thing even more with this new album. She does this wonderful thing where she starts out a lot of these songs and you think she's giving you bedroom pop, the soft, dulcet Billie Eilish energy. And then halfway through these songs, she reveals to you that she can belt and she can sing and she's giving you like Alanis-level vocals. Love it.

And the lyrics are smart. And the music is all nostalgic. It's all giving me TRL late 90s energy. It's just a perfect combination. And I like this album so much. We had a full episode of my other podcast, Into It, all about...

her mode and style of fame. You know, she is an extremely forward-looking pop star who's also quite nostalgic, and it works really well. And what she's done really incredibly with her fandom, you know, Gen Z loves her, obviously, but elder millennials love Olivia, too. Oh, yeah. Because she's given you that throwback energy. Mm-hmm.

So my recommendation is All of Guts. It's a really fun album. But I think the most exciting lyrics for me on this album are on a song called Get Him Back. And it's all about Olivia dating this kind of sketchy dude for a little while, leaving him, but still being like, I think I want to get him back. The bridge is wild. I'm going to read you a few of the lyrics from one of...

the verses that will just blow your mind. She says, I want to key his car. I want to make him lunch. I want to break his heart, then be the one to stitch it up. I want to kiss his face with an uppercut. I want to meet his mom just to tell her her son sucks. Olivia, I started looking around the room like, Olivia, I'm scared. I'm scared, Olivia. Girl!

I think what I'm saying is I want Olivia Rodrigo and Doja Cat to just punch me in the face. I mean, that would be fun. Everyone has a kink. Everyone has a kink. I love... I haven't listened to the new album yet. I'm really excited to. But her last album, whoo, she's a lyricist. She writes. She's so good.

She does that. She has a fierce pen. And look, I don't throw this around often, but there are certain pop stars that I think of as writers as well. Florence Welch is a great example. Like, could you imagine? I would love, like, since we did, like, 90 Seconds Street, why? Like, I would love to see a conversation between someone like Florence Welch

Hayley Williams and Olivia Rodrigo just about lyrics, just about writing because I think they really do bring an artistry to it. Saeed, I'm going to send you a link in the run-up to this new album from Olivia. There's a sit-down interview of Olivia Rodrigo with Alanis Morissette. Oh, see? Really? See? It's good. I'm going to send it to you. That's amazing. Anywho, listeners, check out Guts. Saeed, what is your recommendation?

My recommendation this week is a TikTok that, one, has kind of guided a lot of the conversations this episode, especially regarding what's going on with Drew Barrymore, Mila Kunis, and Ashton Kutcher. The account is culturework on TikTok. This person has a sub stack as well that I need to subscribe to. But their TikTok, they just, whoo, they

they go in and deep such insight about culture and celebrity and what's going on. And listen, I'm not going to write a letter to the judge, but I would, you know, hand on Bible say that if you like vibe check, you will love culture work. There is absolutely a back and forth between how this person thinks and their ideas and what we are often interested in. They be knowing, they be knowing. So I definitely do culture work. Well,

Love it. Such a good TikTok. Zach, what about you? So my vibe this week is something you all can do and I think you all should go do, which is go out and support your local theater. Just a few weeks ago, the New York Times released a really great report talking about how theaters, nonprofit theaters, not the big Broadway houses, which have been struggling, but like your local theater is on the brink of closure.

closing and you really need to go and support them because people just aren't going to theaters as much. Our generation, you know, millennials, Gen Z don't have subscriptions like our grandparents did to theater. So they're really on shaky ground and there's just a lot of amazing stuff happening. And in one show I went and saw in San Francisco this past week that I've been helping work on is Soul Train the musical, which is the adaptation of Soul Train.

Soul Train, the TV show. And it's a really great show that will one day go to Broadway, but you can go see in local theaters, whether it's in San Francisco, New York, wherever, shows before they become really famous. So you can be part of that journey. And then another show I saw over the weekend that I think people should see if they're in New York City is a show called Job.

And it stars Peter Friedman from Succession. Which one is Peter Friedman? He's Carl. He's one of the corporate lackeys. And Sidney Lemon. And it's written by Max Wolf Fredlick. But it's a show about working in tech and actually content moderation. And it's 80 minutes.

It is high octane. There we go. There we go. 80 minutes. 80 minutes. We love, there's a bar with cheap cocktails. It's at the Soho Playhouse. It's produced by the amazing Danielle Perlman. And it's just a fun time. So go, go have dinner with your friends. Go see some shows. Do something fun out in the world. Summer is ending, but it's still warm. Wear some cute outfits. And that's my recommendation for the week. I love it.

I love it. Well, listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What shows are you seeing that you really love? Send them our way via email at vibecheckatstitcher.com. And also, I would be curious, listeners, like,

When's the last time you went to the theater? Yeah. I mean, I have some thoughts about maybe why people aren't going to see shows as frequently. But if you have thoughts, let us know. Yeah, I would love to know. And if there's something you're like, you know, The Wiz is opening in a few weeks. Oh, I would be at The Wiz. Seated. Talk about a soundtrack. Come on. Talk about a soundtrack. Emerald City. Ooh.

And guess who's in it that we all love? Deborah Cox. She will be- Who's she playing? Who does she play? The Good Witch. Is she the Good Witch? She's the Good Witch. She's the Good Witch, yes. Oh, she's Linda. Oh, walking in the footsteps of Lena Horne. Oh, that's so beautiful. We love that. So there's like so much of that happening. That's opening in Baltimore in a few weeks. So it's like, there's amazing stuff happening probably near you. Go do it. Go do it. Tell us what you want to see. Go do it.

Listeners, thank you all for tuning in to this week's episode of Vibe Check. And again, I say thank you, Olivia Rodrigo, for lyrics like, I want to kiss his face with an uppercut. Wow. Wow. Olivia. Olivia. Ah.

In the bag, made the bag, distributing the bag. I love it. Listeners, if you love this show and want to support us, please make sure to follow this show on your favorite podcast listening platform and also tell a friend. Tell a friend. Huge thank you to our producers, Chantel Holder, engineers, Sam Kiefer and Brendan Burns and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also special thanks to our executive producers,

producers Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. Shout out to our new intern, Julia Russo. You're very funny. We're happy to have you on the team, Julia. Welcome to the chaos.

And as always, we want to hear from you. So don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram or wherever you use socials, threads. I think it's still running. No one's on threads, but I am on Blue Sky. You are on Blue Sky. I'm keeping the lights on over there. I love Zach's mom. No one's saying he's on Blue Sky. Oh my God. Tell her to message me on there. I don't know you can DM. She texted me. She goes, you haven't logged onto this app in a while. So be a screenshot. Wow.

wow okay mom thanks but you can find us using our handles at the ferocity at Zach Staff and at Sam Sanders across all of those and of course use the hashtag hashtag vibe check pod so until next week stay tuned we'll be back with more magic have a great week everyone bye bye Stitcher

If you're shopping while working, eating, or even listening to this podcast, then you know and love the thrill of the hunt. But are you getting the thrill of the best deals? Rakuten shoppers do. They get the brands they love with the most savings and cash back. And you can get it too. Start getting cash back at your favorite stores like Levi's, Fenty Beauty, and Macy's. And even stack sales on top of cash back. It's easy to use, and you can get your cash back through PayPal or a check.

The idea is simple. Stores pay Rakuten for sending them shoppers. And Rakuten shares the money with you as cash back. Download the free Rakuten app and never miss a deal. Or go to Rakuten.com to start getting the most bang for your buck. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N.

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