Those Are French Fighting Words
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On their Instagram page, we are golden.

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Praise the Lord, Saints. No? Praise it. What? Okay. Anywho, hello, ladies. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And you are listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check. Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

So much to talk about this week, and I'm just glad to be back in the mix after missing my sisters for a week. I missed y'all last Thanksgiving week being off. I missed you. I missed both of you so much. I missed our little weekly check-in. It was so weird. Yeah. It was really weird. But we're back, and we're ready. What's so weird is that we, of course, spoke, but we were busy with partners and family and things. I forgot that the holidays, when they're back to their normal cycles—

are a lot. There's a lot of interest. They are. It's a lot going on. And also for anyone, for future reference who hears the sound of my voice,

stop having your weddings during holiday season. It's too much. Alex and I had to go from a wedding in New York back to LA for a day, then to the Bay Area for Thanksgiving. All of it was fun, but I think there should be a rule. Weddings are only allowed after Valentine's Day and before Veterans Day. Too many marriages end in divorce for y'all to be playing games like that. Yeah, y'all gotta space that shit out. Yeah.

That's my thing. I'm always confused at why people have weddings on significant personal days. So their birthdays, Christmas, New Year's. What happens when you are one of the 50% of people whose marriages fail and then that holiday is ruined forever? Like, no. But also, I guess from the perspective of the couple and the family, it's the idea that like, well, our family will be together for the holidays anyway. So it's easy. I don't know. It doesn't. I think it's,

It's that and then that people are also off work. But girl, when I'm off, I don't want to be at your wedding. Anywho, let's tell our listeners what we're talking about this week. We've got some heavy and some light. We weren't here with y'all last week, but this week we are going to talk about the fatal shooting at Club Q in Colorado Springs.

It has rocked us to our core, and there's so much to unpack with it. I look forward to that conversation. And we're also going to later talk about a French man being fired for not being fun at work. I'm so excited to talk about that. Also, that they even tried this with the French man, because the French don't play with work. I was about to say, because the French don't play. They really don't. The French don't play. I don't know.

They don't play. But first, before all of that, gotta ask, how are we all feeling? Zach, you go first.

I'm good. I'm so happy to be back working, you know, that week off. I don't have a lot of excuses to not pick up the phone, to not not talk to somebody. And I am weirdly that person that really loves a work week and loves a schedule and loves a to-do list. So I spent a lot of the week with my boyfriend's family in East Tennessee, and they are wonderful people, but they relax.

in ways I can't relax. They sit on the couch, they play games, they do everything. And I was like, this is lovely. I do need to sit down like this, but I'm not used to this at all. We're going to have to tell so many people we know not to listen to this week's episode. You might want to just fast forward through. Family and friends, not for you. Not for you. But I say all that. I had so much fun. So it was so much love, so much fun. I got to see my own family too in Nashville, but

I am happy to be back working because it busies the mind. So that's where I'm at today. Yeah, yeah. Saeed, how are you? I'm good.

I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. I mean, the holidays, this is like, gosh, I guess the first year in two or three years now where it was like, you know, you're doing the travel, you're going to different places, you're doing the planning. It was fun. It was great to have my boyfriend here with me. And we did several road trips and Friendsgivings and all of that. And a birthday. Oh, see? Yeah.

I was like, what else? I was like, did someone we know get married? No. Then a birthday. So, yeah, it was a lot. It was exciting. But also, all of this happens, like, right at the end of my book tour, right? So, it was like, I got back. I got food poisoning the last stop of my book tour. I got back, and it was immediately time to kind of go into holiday travel. So, I'm feeling a little like, ooh, that was great. But, like, what just happened? So, yeah, this feels like me.

I guess having the opportunity finally to reflect on the holidays and all of that. And then, yeah, with the shooting in Colorado Springs, a lot's happened since the three of us last, since us three witches met. You know, the Lady Macbeth got up to a lot of shit over the last week. Sure did. I'm glad

I'm good. You know, Thanksgiving and the days before that were a lot. Went to this wedding in New York, then the Bay with the boyfriend. Then my boyfriend, Alex, had a birthday as well over Thanksgiving week. Happy birthday, Alex. Happy birthday, Alex. Yeah. But I think what I've noticed the most in that week away from work, I had some time to really like think about my smartphone use. Like when I'm not working, I can kind of be like, oh, I'm using this phone way too much. And I realized over the course of the week not working that I am...

mourning the loss of like what Twitter used to be. There were so many moments during this week off where I had a few minutes of downtime and I wanted to just go see what was trending on twitter.com, which used to kind of give me a laugh or a giggle. Now it's just darkness and bleakness.

And, you know, I think we've talked about Twitter before on this show with the idea that it was going to probably die pretty soon after Elon took over. I think what we're experiencing is going to be harder for me. It's going to linger, but just be awful. And that makes me sad. And I'm in this weird mini morning phase for a social media platform, which I never expected. But here we are. I miss the old Twitter. Anywho, that's how I'm feeling. Okay.

Well, before we get into this week's episode, we want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail, who tweeted us, who DM'd us. And we love hearing from y'all. I love seeing, like, it's also fun, like, on Instagram stories when people, like, someone was like, the three of y'all are, like, my big gay brothers. Yeah. I love that. I love that. That's a step away from calling us gay elders, which I think we're also getting. Ha ha ha!

I like to think of us as like gay aunties. Yeah, okay. You can always email us as well at vibecheckatstitcher.com. Here's a note we'd like to share. It comes from Isla. Hello, Saeed, Zach, and Sam. I'm sure you get a ton of emails, tweets, et cetera, about Vibe Check, but I couldn't let this week end without sending mine your way.

I've been a huge fan of everything Sam has done in podcasting since the politics podcast days and was devastated to hear him move on from It's Been a Minute. But turns out I am loving Vibe Check even more. You three make my Wednesday bright as all get out. As someone that doesn't pay nearly enough attention to the news, I really appreciate your focus on important topics.

issues, especially those that directly impact queer, BIPOC, and other underrepresented communities. Your voices uplift so many that need to be heard, and the jokes cannot be beat. I had two snicker bars yesterday, and I will never be the same. Isla! Yes! We love Isla. We love you. Thank you for that.

The Snickers will never leave us. I got, whenever I see one, it takes me to Sam Sanders every time. What a moment. What a moment. Well, thank you for that. But let's get into, we got a lot to talk about this week. Let's jump in, shall we? Let's do it. Let's do it.

All right. So to kick things off, we want to talk about the Club Q shooting in Colorado Springs. So let's set some facts straight and add some context before we jump in. On Saturday, November 19th, a fatal shooting occurred at Club Q, an LGBTQ plus nightclub in Colorado Springs.

The attack happened just hours before a drag brunch was scheduled the next day, which was Trans Day of Remembrance, which is an annual day where we mourn trans folks who've been lost to violence each year. The 22-year-old shooter, Anderson Lee Aldridge, who prosecutors believe to be non-binary according to court filings, is currently being held in jail without bond as the investigation continues.

However, there is much speculation on the identity of the shooter, and some believe that there could be a level of trolling due to the nature of the attack, so more to come on that. But it should be noted that identity doesn't negate the nature of alleged crimes, no matter what the crime is, meaning LGBTQ people can commit hate crimes too, which we will get into.

Five people were killed and 18 people were injured. And our hearts go out to these victims and their loved ones, especially those whose lives were taken. Their names are Raymond Green Vance, Kelly Loving, Daniel Ashton, Derek Rump, and Ashley Paul. You all will never be forgotten.

So some larger context here. There have been over 124 incidents of anti-drag protests and significant threats in the U.S. just this year, with 47 of the 50 states in America having at least one incident. And the spike is largely due to the right's political obsession with casting LGBTQ people as grooming children, meaning they believe people are trying to force children to become LGBTQ.

We have seen a significant rise in attacks and threats towards not just drag shows lately, but even hospitals who provide LGBTQ affirming care. And it should be pointed out that these hospitals are children hospitals.

And the right is now only leaning in. Within the immediate aftermath of the attack, outlets like Fox News, The Daily Wire, and Tucker Carlson only leaned into this narrative of grooming more by using this moment to only further their false claims that LGBTQ people are the monsters in America, a place where LGBT people are actually four times more likely to be victims of violent crimes than straight people. And that's the larger context to this incident.

Thank you for that context. I think part of it is there's never a right time for such a horrific attack. But I think the fact that this attack took place, you know, right before the holidays, right before, I guess, as we've been talking about, everyone's traveling, you've got everything kind of going on. And as we've also mentioned, it feels like social media is deteriorating. I think it's been even more difficult to process this.

the fact of this attack and its implications, you know, because it's just like we've been on the go. You know, I've just been thinking about like now that I'm finally back home as of the last couple of days, like I'm finally, it feels like all of my feelings, my grief, my outrage are just now catching up with me, you know? And so I just want to say for people listening, it's okay if

If you're at work and you take a moment to have your coffee or your cigarette break and it just catches up with you, I think that's perfectly understandable. You know what I mean? Grief and outrage, deep emotions, I find actually to be very queer. They don't obey kind of like our linear get back to work kind of mindset. They just are going to – they're going to play out how they're going to play out. And so, yeah, I want to, I guess, start by just saying this is devastating and haunting and –

And just like thinking about the ramifications of the Pulse nightclub shooting, which was in June of 2016, I still have moments now where I think about reporting on the cell phones ringing more.

from the victims then. And that was several years ago. So it's just, this is a lot and we have to make space for that. - And when you think about the way these tragedies compound and fall on top of each other, I remember covering the Charleston church shooting and notating then that it happened about a year to the day after Pulse and all of the layers of grief that that would bring to people like us

But what I've noticed here, and we've talked about this briefly before this chat today, something about the cycle of public grieving that used to at least kind of happened on all sides for at least a day or two after these things, that's gone out the window. We have seen on the right, as soon as this shooting happened at Club Q,

Far-right figures basically blaming queer people for this shooting and blaming what they call the grooming agenda and blaming drag queens reading books to children. Tucker Carlson, soon after this shooting, he featured someone named Jamie Mitchell. She's a founder of an anti-trans group called Gays Against Groomers, and she publicly on his show said,

the evil agenda of gender affirming care for these deaths. This is wild. There was no thoughts and prayers. There was no let's all pause before politics. Immediately,

They blamed the victims for their own deaths. And I was reading a really interesting article in The Nation from a writer named Jeet Heer. And he compared that kind of rhetoric to the same kind of rhetoric that white supremacists use to defend lynching decades ago here in this country. When black people were lynched, they'd say, well, they shouldn't have been doing this. They shouldn't have been doing that. They shouldn't have gathered publicly. They shouldn't have looked at that white woman. They shouldn't have been around where white people were. They deserved it.

This is the same kind of language that we're seeing now. And what we're seeing happen to trans people, to queer people, it's a different kind of lynching with the same kind of moral justifications. Right.

And it's just deeply disturbing. Yeah. And what we can say with a lot of clarity right now is that this incident is being investigated as a hate crime. Charges haven't been brought. Hate crimes are very complicated to define and even prosecute because they have to be very explicit that this was the only reason why someone murdered them.

But what we can say for certain is that this incident is being treated like a hate crime cultural moment. And what I mean by that is hate crimes are incredibly symbolic. Why we prosecute them heavier is that when they happen, so what happened at Club Q, it not only impacts the people that were in the

But it sends a message globally to every queer person that this is what you deserve and this is what you will be facing if you go to a bar. And that's what makes it a hate crime or feels like a hate crime already because it has made every queer person feel unsafe. And that is- There's a chilling effect. Yeah.

Yes, and that's what's so sick about all of this is that the far right is saying, actually, this politic works. We're going to lean in. We're going to celebrate these moments and use them to say, yeah, yeah, life loss, et cetera, et cetera, but we need to protect the kids directly.

do whatever you need to do to protect kids, which echoes similar attacks we see on abortion clinics, where they're saying we are willing to kill women to send a message to other women so that they don't have abortions. And that just was what unsettles me so much. It's like, there's no love of human life at all, and they just see every person as a pawn in a larger game that I don't even know what the end goal is besides eradicating all of us. And that's just really... It frightens me. It does deeply frighten me because it just...

With Pulse, there was a moment where everyone took a breath. It was during a presidential cycle, Hillary versus Trump, where everyone, you know, was mourning, talking about it, being a little cordial. All of that's gone. The rights aren't even trying to take a moment. They immediately launch into, no, no, this was kind of

justified. We're not going to say it was justified, but we're going to make you feel like it was justified. And that's just gross. Yeah. Like hate crimes are rhetorical. They are violent acts of communication. And so yeah, a message is put out and a message is received. And especially, you know, again, club Q in Colorado Springs, which apparently is a very, I've only been there like once just for like a short trip known as a very conservative community.

This is not a space where queer visibility and community was something that people could take for granted. And so to have this particular club attacked, when you think about, and I say, as a kid who grew up in the suburbs of North Texas, for example, I remember the nerves, the agitation, and the excitement and the relief of being like, okay, my friends and I, we're going to get in a car and we're going to drive 15, 20, 30 minutes

to the nearest gay bar, you know, to find our refuge and we're going to be together. And that wasn't something you could take for granted. And it was really special. It was something I look forward to. It meant everything to finally turn 18, for example, that I could get in on those special nights. You know what I mean? So the stakes of this space, you know, and what that means, again, and Sam, you're right, when I think of the church in Charleston, to think of those black church parishioners being in a prayer group,

welcoming that murderer in and sitting with him and making him feel welcome. Again, it's just there's no justification for gunning down anyone, anyone, anywhere. I don't care where you are. However, it does feel symbolically more pointed when these spaces of secular or religious sacredness are violated. It's just so pointed. Yeah.

And like, this is the thing that I know to be true about the black church and the gay bar. They both have open door policies. They welcome any and everybody in. And the point is you're welcome here. Don't care what you look like. Don't care what you're wearing. Come on in. And so that makes it even more hurtful when you see these shooters, these extremists attack those kinds of spaces.

I am thinking, though, about the way that this is kind of part of a multi-pronged attack against queer people. I want to reference this Jeet here article from The Nation again. When he spoke of America's lynching culture, he said that, quote, the lynching culture of Jim Crow America had both a legal and an extrajudicial side.

The legal side was all the laws that affirm white supremacy. The other side was the actual lynching, which was often winked at by police and society. What we see here with these attacks against trans people, you're seeing lawmakers pass laws that would keep trans folks from being trans, keep them from having health care, keep them from having sex.

who they are seen in schools. That's one part of it. The other side is the killing of trans people that those same lawmakers will wink and nod at or ignore or say was deserved. This is a multi-pronged attack.

and they go hand in hand. When we see more laws against trans people, we see more violence against them as well. These things are tied. And I hope, especially as we enter campaign season 2024, it's already here. I hope that we have serious conversations about how this kind of rhetoric and this kind of politics and this kind of lawmaking has a real effect on people's lives and it causes death.

It causes death. And I want the left to say that more. Let's talk about the good people. This is a clear and present danger. Everything you've just said, Sam and Zach, you're kind of just showing that it's a drag net and it's closing in. We know what the fascists are doing. We see that they're dumbling down. They're amping up the volume. So those of you who are not queer –

But think of yourselves as good, non-hating, non-bicketed people. Okay, it's time for you to amp up your volume too. Frankly, this goes for queer people too. Senator Kristen Semina, who I think just a week ago was like,

you know, it's okay if everyone doesn't agree on marriage. The time for this provocating, the time for the gray area and the, oh, well, let's hear about the both sides-ism, that bullshit stops now. They want us dead. And if you are ambivalent or, ah, let's hear both sides about they want us dead, then you want us dead too. And I think it's really important for all of us to think about the people in our lives, to think about the people in our communities, the people who impact

the decisions, like you're saying, the laws, the public, go down the list and just like check in with people and go like, do you understand the stakes? And just listen to what they have to say. And you need to make a decision. Either they value your life or they don't. There's no in between on this, actually. And I also would say, and I'm reminded of this in moments after things like the Club Q shooting, you can't get rid of us.

You cannot get rid of queer people. We are bigger than any bullet, any gun, any violence. As long as there have been human beings on Earth, there have been queer human beings on Earth. We are a spirit. We are a movement. We are unstoppable. We are undefeatable. So fuck you. We're here.

And it needs to be repeated and I'll keep repeating it. You can't get rid of us. As long as we need to, as loud as we need to. And we will continue fighting. You know, the day that this happened, I'm on a group chat with a bunch of people that do different work, whether it's political, social, et cetera. One of the first people to alert me that the shooting happened was Brandon Wolf, who is a survivor from the Pulse nightclub shooting.

And he was offering support to folks in Colorado, to the openly queer politicians there, to the people on the ground. And in that moment, I was like, you know what? They're going to keep attacking us, but we're going to keep fighting. And we will keep. And those of us that survive will come back stronger and harder. And I just, I have faith in us, like you're saying.

Louder, better, faster, stronger, queerer. Baby, we're fucking here. We are here. Also, as we close this segment, I want to encourage everyone to go check out this really great piece from Jeet here in The Nation, which I referenced liberally in this conversation. It's called The Club Q Massacre and the New Culture of Lynching. It's over at The Nation. And Jeet, thank you for writing it.

Well, with that, we need to take a quick break, but stay tuned. We'll be right back with some fun work drama to dissect. Or is it? We need it. We need it.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands. I

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden. All right, my loves, we are back. And we're going to talk about, I call it corporate compulsory fun. And obviously, if something is compulsory, that's not- It ain't fun. It ain't a good time. It ain't a good time. Okay, so here's- Like heterosexuality. Oop!

Okay, shout out to, you better come on, Audrey and Rich. Thank you, Audrey and Rich. Yeah, compulsory heterosexuality. Look it up. If suddenly you're like, what are they referring to? You might learn some things about yourself. But I digress. Here's the tea. The highest court in the French legal system has ruled that companies cannot fire their workers for failing to be sufficiently fun.

In 2015, a French man was fired from working at a Paris-based consultancy firm for four years because of what the company called, quote, professional incompetence. Which is, I mean, that is, if someone said I was professionally incompetent, I would be really offended. Except. Those are fighting words. Right. Those are French fighting words. You know? You pull out your, what do they fight? Lances? Bayonets? Whatever they use over there. Anyway. The killer berets. Yeah.

They're back at, okay, cursing us out in the emails. But here's the thing. What they're calling professional incompetence actually means that he didn't want to participate in after work drinks, the happy hours and all of that, and quote, team building activities, which as we know, those are total euphemisms, corporate euphemisms for broke culture. In the lawsuit though, he alleged and the court agreed that the company

idea of fun really meant things like regular obligatory social events that often culminated in excessive alcoholism, encouraged by colleagues who made very large quantities of alcohol available, as well as practices pushed by colleagues involving promiscuity, bullying, incitement to various excesses. Often they were pressured to share rooms with each other on work trips, which is not great. No.

Not great. This is some boiler room type shit. Remember that movie Boiler Room where they all just like do coke together after work? Just as that. It's a very good Vin Diesel performance, by the way. Oh, okay. Insanity. There's a lot going on here. There are two facets that I'm really excited to get into with both of you. First is the idea of how they're defining fun and like, you know, the idea of like, oh, come on, bro. We're all having a good time and how that impacts a lot of company culture. But

also kind of using this as a jumping off point. You know, I feel like often black people, queer people in workspaces, sometimes we have to deal with being not quote unquote fun when that really means we're not performing like in the way that like white people want us to be in the workplace. I feel like there's a lot of jumping off points, but where do y'all want to start? What does this light up for the two of you?

This made me so anxious because I'm a very social person. I love people. Work fun stuff, forced work fun, I will avoid like the plague. Just to give an example, when I joined Grindr in 2017 as editor-in-chief there, which I love that job. I love my time there. It was very uplifting.

and down, but something that Grindr loves to do is throw parties. Throw parties like weekly. We had an open bar at a card always at the Abbey. So it was very encouraging that you always go out drinking with people. Wait, just like a standing? Like there was an open tab standing at the Abbey? Is that still there? You go to the Abbey, it's no longer there, but it's like OG Grindr days. You could just go to the Abbey, stand on the Grindr tab, and they would put it on a card. It was just that much drinking happening there.

And I felt like it was a trap. It was a trap for me to mess up. It was a trap for me to act up, for me to get caught. Well, because you were management. Yes, I was management. And I was like, what? I want to go home. I just spent AM to 6 PM with you people. I don't want a vodka soda with you. So I just...

hate it so much. I've never seen it really help people. I see it get people in lots of trouble. And I think we need to let go of those madman days, those bygone days where going golfing and getting drunk over a cigar lounge gives you a promotion. I think now it's more trouble than it is worth anything else. It is. Well, and when I was reading about this case, which is hilarious on several levels,

There's also something bigger and much more severe that we're grappling with as a society right now. I think this push for employers and our jobs and our workplaces to mandate fun, to mandate us being part of that work family, it's a direct reaction to the decimation of community outside of the workspace over the last several decades.

We have been facing for decades now the isolation of suburbanization, the decline of walkable neighborhoods. We've seen the decline of social and community-based groups. We've seen the loss of third spaces. I was like, isn't there a name for that? I was like, third places? No, third spaces, right? There's like home, there's work, and then there used to be the community club. Yes, or the park. So all of these things...

and ways in which we could build community outside of work. They don't exist in the ways that they did for our parents or our grandparents. I think about my father who was older when I came around, but he was involved in so much. He had retired and he was still in the Lions Club, the church building committee. He did community service stuff. He would go to the senior center to like play dominoes three times a week. Like he was just involved in things that were not work. We have so much less of that. And in that vacuum-

our employers see that emptiness and they fill it with work as family to get you to work more. So it's not just...

them blurring the lines of work and fun. It's them doing this in ways that just get you to work more for them. All of it is insidious and toxic. And if this story reminds me of anything, it is a reminder that all of us, if we can, should get a life and friends and community outside of our fucking jobs. You deserve it. Yeah.

Yeah. When I think about this, I feel like as someone who worked at BuzzFeed and BuzzFeed News for six years, rock in a hard place. Because on one hand, one facet of the story that I think we need to draw attention to is alcohol and alcoholism and sobriety. A lot of workplaces, the only...

Only compulsory fun events they have are about alcohol. The holiday parties and the happy hour, that's all they do. There's nothing else, which, you know, one, everyone doesn't want to drink. Everyone shouldn't have to drink if they don't want to. And so in that kind of work culture, you can be made to feel like, well-

if I don't go to the happy hour, I'm one not fun and I'm not going to be mingling with the managers and the executives and that could impact my career trajectory. The other issue though, on the other side of that, BuzzFeed was a place that was actually pretty good, I think generally about coming up with all kinds of different social events. People would

go to lunch. They would do like, you know, just weird, random kind of wacky, fun things to do. It wasn't just about alcohol. But as someone who was there for six years and saw a lot, I started to feel like, well, this is a trap too because damn, aren't we already around each other all day? I want to go home.

I want to go home. Yeah, like at times, you know, when you're in an environment where it's like, okay, now we're having lunch together. Now we're doing this together. Now we're doing that together. It's kind of like, I don't want to be on a college campus, actually. Like your coworkers begin to feel like,

sneaky roommates or something. You know what I mean? So it's a weird thing where you're right because the third space is out in the community, the book club, the library, all of these other more organic spaces where you can go to be in community with people who you live around have been decimated because

capitalism is kind of taking that all up. And it's just nasty. This makes me think about the show. We work with Anne Hathaway and we crashed, we crashed, sorry, we crashed, which is about, we work about, we work about, we work Jesus. But it gives you a really, when I watched it, I was like, this is why I have such an issue with this whole, your workers, your family work should not be your family.

Never let someone gaslight you into being like, this is your family, you should work more for less because you care about us. These are for-profit, capitalistic endeavors that need you there so that someone else makes way more money than you ever will in that position. And I think it's incredibly exploitative. And these like,

Fun times are meant to trick you into forgetting that you're on a conveyor belt for capitalism. And you need to go take a break, go to a third space to realize that life is about being in the world, being with yourself, being with people you love. You need that. And that also will allow you to enjoy work more when it doesn't become your central personality. Because when you are laid off, like people at Twitter are currently facing, people a lot of tech jobs are facing, you lose yourself and you get really sad. And it just is very devastating.

Your job is a transaction. You do a thing, they give you money. Yep. If it gives you more touchy-feely, happy feelings than that, accept it, but that's not promised or guaranteed or even the point. It's a transaction.

I also – and you have both alluded to this – I want to really caution people from marginalized backgrounds from falling into this trap because a lot of times if you are the person of color at a mostly white workspace or a queer person at a mostly straight workspace –

You're pressured into doing all this social stuff, not just to become part of the community. That's part of it. But also these institutions are testing you out and trying you out as their diversity mascots. And a lot of times what happens is that like,

successful people from marginalized backgrounds in these workspaces, once they have gone to enough happy hours and they're seen as fun and cool, then they're trotted out. And part of their job is to be a diversity mascot for these spaces. And you're not getting paid for it. Mm-hmm.

It's just a trap on so many levels. If I can caution everyone hearing my voice right now, and I'll say it again, like, don't let your job be your life. Have a life outside of your job because you're being used. You're being used. And I will add, you know, I, towards the end of my time at BuzzFeed News, some younger black staffers came to me and said that they were dealing with a different aspect of this fund. It wasn't about the happy hours and the being out and about. It was actually like digital funds.

In which case, like Slack.

And so I feel like in a lot of places, if you work in newsrooms, anywhere where there's a lot of idea cultivation and brainstorming and vibing is actually really important to whatever you're kind of putting out there as a company, then the conversations are really important. And what these staffers shared with me is that they were like, well, there are all these theme slacks. So BuzzFeed would have slacks around different television shows, different areas of media and pop culture, which great, fine, love it. But the issue was that they often found

felt that they were being iced out because on their teams, it would be like, they would be like one or two black people on a team of mostly white folks who all wanted to talk about whatever white people talk about. Friends, 30 Rock, The Office, whatever, you know, and it was like, they would be like, yeah, everyone wants to talk about these certain topics and I,

I don't know anything about it. That's not my job. Like I'm here to be like a beauty editor or a music editor or whatever. But the team dynamic is kind of socializing around these aspects of like white pop culture. And I'm realizing I'm missing out on opportunities or being straight up told that I'm not friendly or not fun enough because I'm quiet. Right.

I'm too shy. You know what I mean? And so I also want to acknowledge that there's a kind of a digital aspect of this in terms of culture. And I think I've seen this happen in schools, you know, where people are like nervous about the emails they're sending because they're like, I've been told I'm not friendly enough in my emails. Yeah.

And so it's very strange. And I guess I would say for advice, I think talk to your managers, talk to your work mentors. How is fun defined in this space? Can you give me some examples of productive ways that I can engage my colleagues? Because you should. You shouldn't just be a

Yeah.

A union can be very helpful in establishing what your work expectations actually are. Here's what my job is. Here's how I do it. Here are the metrics to determine raises, promotions, et cetera. Because a lot of times managers like it when it's opaque about what's required of you. They can get more out of you from that, right? So find your union, find the folks who are organizing to –

make sure the workplace is equitable and speak out and speak up when and if you can because workplaces are inherently insidious and you got to be careful. Take care. It's not you. It's not you. And if you're a person that likes to be social, likes to go out...

You know what? Use this to your advantage. Your work should be paying for these drinks. They should be paying for your Ubers and Lyfts home. You should be allowed to come in late. Negotiate. Always. If I'm expected to be out until 9 o'clock tonight, I'm not logging on until noon tomorrow. Sorry. Well, we're going to take another quick break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, WeAreGolden. All right, we are back. You're listening to Vibe Check. And as we always do, before we end the show, we'd each like to share a thing that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. They've got me on the dock this week as going first, so I'm going to go first. I'm going to...

recommend Aubrey Plaza. Not for her work in the White Lotus season two, which is really, really good. She's also good on Little Demon. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She does the work. I love her. But I want to recommend her for an independent film she did this year called Emily the Criminal. I saw it on a plane about a week and a half ago and it's really good.

Long story short, her character in this film is a young artist struggling to pay back her student loans who gets involved in criminal activity to pay off those loans. Crazy ensues. And it just showcases what I love the most about Aubrey Plaza. And you see this a lot in The White Lotus as well.

She's got some crazy behind the eyes. She does this thing. She has this like silent, almost evil stare. And behind those eyes, you see a woman who would not hesitate to kill a man. I love it. This film, it's all about her. She is a star and she does the work from top to bottom, beginning to end. It's called Emily, the criminal. It's very, very good. Go watch it. She has, it's almost, you're right. I know the quality. It's like, it's like cold heat.

You know what I mean? Like she tends to be very still. Her voice is deep, seemingly low energy, but there's something always seething. - Yes, that is the word. - Yeah, really, really good. - She's great. I love her. And also since it is the holiday season,

Do not forget that she starred in one of the better holiday movies last year to come out, Happiest Season, with Kirsten Stewart, which I think is on Hulu. It is a fun lesbian holiday special. She plays a great lesbian, and she is the heartthrob of many lesbians I know now because of this. She was great in Legion, too. She's...

I know Parks and Recreation was her introduction, but I think she's one of those people over the last probably decade now, she's really just like gone for the moon. And it's been really cool to see her take on a lot of different projects. I love it. We love it. We love her. Yeah. All right. Saeed, what you got? My vibe rec this week is a really important and beautiful cultural artifact. Where are you going with this? I like to refer to it as the plastic trash bin.

You're recommending the plastic trash bin. I'm recommending the plastic trash bin. If you were one of the last few stragglers on Twitter, you've probably noticed these last few days, someone, I believe someone from the UK of the pale. It's always them. It's always them. Of the pale demographic. I think the don't wash your legs shit came from the UK. Exactly. I'm inclined to agree. The pale demographic. Someone tweeted about.

About realizing that it was unusual that their family uses what they called a family sick bowl for vomiting. Stop. I'm sorry, what? Stop. See? A family sick bowl for me. Make it plain for me. They all share a vomit bin? Apparently there would be a bowl for...

That when people were sick, it was like, oh, go get the sick bowl and have it by the bed. I know. Okay. As if that's not disgusting enough because one, bowls, things splash. Two, like bowl, huh? You could use a plastic trash bin, for example. Also just go to the toilet. Vomit in the toilet. You could go to the toilet. Vomit in the toilet. You could use a trash bag. But the larger issue is that it was a mixed-use bowl.

that this family would use it for when people were sick and then use it to cook. What would they cook in this thing? They would use it for making cakes. And the issue is one person, one person from the UK tweeted about this. And then if you look at the replies of the tweets, you can find it on my timeline, a bunch of other white British people were like, oh, we had a family

sick bolted like it wasn't in fact just one person and so my what you want to know what keeps my vibe right you want to know what helps me get through the day knowing that there are a great many of us out here

who instead opt to use plastic trash bins. They're really small. You just put it by the kid's bed. Because part of it, what people were trying to say, it's like, you don't understand what it's like to be a parent and your kids can't make, I was like, okay, I get it. Your kids might not make it to the toilet, but you can have a little trash bin right there. That's what my mom did. My parents raised two kids and never not once did she say, here's the bowl you throw up in. The bowl? No, the bowl. What the hell?

Also, how often are people getting sick? I mean, I guess they're getting sick if you're just reusing the same bowl over and over and making a cake. Why would you argue that if you live in the kind of family where a mixed-use family sick bowl is common, maybe y'all are having to use it so frequently because you're nasty. You're nasty. I'm going to pray for these people.

This is really making me feel... I know this is an unusual vibe recommendation for me, but I'm like, well, clearly the people need it. Clearly someone needs to tell y'all about plastic trash bins. You're not recommending the use of the vomit slash cake mode. No, I am recommending plastic trash bins. They're incredibly affordable. They're useful. You can easily throw them away if you need to. I'm recommending just leaning your head over that toilet and yakking. Also,

Also that I didn't know this is something we need, but you know, it's the same thing with like white people and washing their legs. I didn't know this was something that needed to be explained. I thought the so-called superior race. Lord. White supremacy. What? Zach, what are you recommending this week? Wow. Please cleanse this palette. Yeah. Yeah.

A plastic bin. I don't know. Trash bags. No, that's not what I'm doing. No, this week, I'm being a little self-indulgent and I'm suggesting or recommending that people listen to a series that I get to do every holiday season called In the Deep over at iHeartRadio. Every year, they invite me to have conversations with Black and Latinx people all around the world. And we talk a lot about a lot

Religion, violence, faith, love. And, you know, this season I feel like is really timely because people like T.S. Madison, who is in the Beyonce song Cozy, is on an episode talking about how that song is really an anthem for black trans women being loved that people aren't realizing, which you can listen to the episode to find out why. And then this week is the season finale with Vincent Perez, who is a Latino gay man whose partner died sadly by a stray bullet.

And he talks about the movement for gun violence and love and how to find a path forward. So it's just a show that like if you're feeling really heavy and you want to hear some stories that help you kind of find hope in all of this, check it out. We have a bunch of episodes and it's a fun time. Okay, in the deep. Listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's keeping your vibe right? Tell us. Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. Vibecheckatstitcher.com.

Thank you all for tuning in to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend. Talk to your friend and say, friend, you need to listen to Vibe Check. You know, they will tell you about important things like plastic trash bins and other important cultural phenomena. I know.

Yes. Wow. A huge thank you to our producer, Chantal Holder, engineer Brendan Burns, and Marcus Hom for our clean music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least, thank you to Jared O'Connell and Imelda Skinner for all of their help.

And listeners, once more, we always want to hear from you about anything. Movies you like, TV you like, Snickers bars, vomit pails. Let us have it. Email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on other platforms as well. On Instagram, we're at Sam Sanders, at Zach Staff, and at The Ferocity. If you post about the show, use the hashtag vibecheckpod.

Also, because we're down with the youth, we're on TikTok as well, at VibeCheckPod. All right, dear listeners, stay tuned for another episode. Until next Wednesday, be well. Vomit where you're supposed to vomit. We love you and we'll talk to you soon. Goodbye. Goodbye. Stitcher.

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