We Got Grudges, B!tch
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Fair maidens. My fair maidens, my ladies, my girls, my wondrous winter witches. Ooh. Happy winter, everybody. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And you are listening to Vibe Check, Winter Wonderland edition, I guess. ♪

Winter Wonderland edition. Let it go? No, we won't. Nope. Not letting it go. We got grudges, bitch.

So this week, we are going to talk about two, frankly, very high-stakes stories. And we're just fascinated by them, and we think they have huge implications for many of us. So we're going to talk first about the many recent lawsuits that have been filed against celebrities like P. Diddy, Eric Adams, Axl Rose. I'm sure you've heard about some of them. You might understandably be wondering, wait, why is all this happening at the same time?

There's a reason for that, and we'll talk about it and its implications. And also, we're going to talk about, look, okay, let me preface this. You're fit. You like geared up. You like mounted up to this, Saeed. Any given week for about the last year and a half that we've been doing this show, we understandably could have talked about Elon Musk. I call him Elon Musty.

But, you know, as with people, frankly, like Donald Trump, who I think he has increasingly a lot in common with, it's kind of like, do you want to make these people the center of your world, your editorial mind? You know what I mean? They're just constantly doing stuff. But we're just over a year in, and...

into a year and a month into Elon's tenure in tyranny at the site formerly known as Twitter. So we thought this in particular would be a good time to kind of look back. How's it going? Where are we going? How bad is it going? Spoiler alert.

Bad. Real bad. We'll get into it. But you know, there's a lot there. So we're going all in. We're going all in on Elon Musk this week. But before we get into that, let us all prepare ourselves. Take a moment. You've been warned. Put on your emotional parkas.

Because it's about to get cold. Emotional parking. We're going to the depths. But first, before we do all of that, friends, how are you doing? Zach, my love, how are you? I'm so good. I had such a good holiday. It felt like a holiday. I don't know if you all felt the same, but it felt long. It felt like Saturday every day for many days. You went somewhere, right? I went to Arizona. So I was in Arizona. My boyfriend has family there and we were there with him. It was really wholesome and lovely. It was great. We drove there. But

What I really want to talk about is we drove back Saturday because I love family, but I was like, I need a day. I need time. And I was like, I really want to go to the movies because there's so many movies out. And I decided to go to the Chinese theater. And as I'm pulling in, I see all of these lights. And I was like, who's having a premiere tonight? And then it hits me. Beyonce is having a premiere tonight. I was like, I am not dressed.

for a Beyonce premiere. Like at all. Were you going to get in there? Could you have gotten in? No, but that's even more embarrassing than I like to see a movie. Driving by the Beyonce premiere in sweatpants. Yeah, I was like, I am truly not dressed to be seen by anybody. But now, you know, we all know people that went to the premiere. We just not go sadly. I knew if this was happening, I would run into people I know and it would be really like, oh, I'm not going in. Sorry.

So I arrive, traffic's a mess, I get inside, and guess who actually is having an event there? Because Beyonce was, but that was at a different theater in LA. But guess who's having an event? Matt Rife. So have y'all been following this Matt? - You know what? I just thought of a nickname for this man. - Ooh. - What? - The Dark-Sided Kin Doll. - The Dark-Sided? - He looks like a kin doll, but evil. - If you're not familiar, Matt Rife is a comedian that has become quite popular because of TikTok.

But he had a Netflix special, and I have never seen a Netflix special outside of Dave Chappelle have so much anger at someone. And now everyone's questioning, why did we make him so famous? Well, he was joking about domestic violence. You know, his start was doing the whole crowd work thing that's popular on TikTok. He was an asshole in all those videos. Actually, his start before, because you're right, TikTok was his boom and introduced him to a lot of other people. But before all of this, his big break was on Wild N' Out with Nick Cannon. And I raised this. Oh, wow.

because it's very significant. And you don't have to dig very hard to find this. You will find a clip where Zendaya is a guest and he tries to hit on her. And she's like, "No." Like he tries to use, like on stage, you know? And she's just like fully like, "No thanks." - His comedy is mean to women.

And he somehow managed to become one of the biggest comedians in the land with a black scent, by the way. The whole thing was just like, what is this child? It's all a mess. And guess who was not in line to see him? Black people. It was all like white people from the Valley. Gag. Reporting from the street. Reporting from the street. Anyway, so I had to get that off my chest. It just to go from, oh, my God, will I see Beyonce to, oh, my God, it's Matt Rife is amazing.

An emotional rollercoaster I never want to be on again. Anyway, Sight, how was your break? How were you doing? My break was good. I feel great over the break. I basically have been in New York for two weeks. We did some behind-the-scenes vibe check work.

We got to tape an episode together, so it's always fun to be with y'all live and in color. And then I did Thanksgiving with my friend Teddy and his family in the Berkshires, and that was eventful but lovely. And then it was my birthday, and my friends took such good care of me. I feel so loved.

It's been, you know, a turbulent year really for all of us, you know, pick a reason. But, you know, certainly a birthday is an opportunity to reflect, maybe reset, maybe reclaim. And I'm just, I'm feeling cozy. I just, yeah, I'm really happy and excited about the future, working on some things that I hope I'll be able to share with people, you know, in the coming months. But yeah, I feel a glow from within. It's Sagittarius season. You're welcome.

I'm at the height of my powers. The only sign with a weapon. At the height of my powers. Oh, it is the only sign with a weapon. It is the only sign with a weapon, which is so perfect. I forget who texted it, but in the group chat, one of us texted Saeed, happy birthday. And his response was...

You're welcome. Yep. I love that. I love that. Happy birthday. I'm the gift. I'm the gift. You are the gift. Yes. Yes. No, but yeah, it just, you don't need me to tell you it's hard out here as I've already mentioned, but just as a reminder, you know, when the joy comes, even if it's a brief,

respite, the laughter, the love, the pretty flower you notice while you're walking on the way to pay your rent. If you see it, you see it and you seize upon that joy and you hold onto it for as long as you can. I believe that's one of the messages of Sagittarius season. So yeah, it's good to be here with you and you're welcome, my loves.

Sam, how are you? I'm very good. You know, this last week, Thanksgiving week, I was expecting a horrible week. Thanksgiving was my family's biggest holiday growing up and my mother's favorite holiday growing up. She passed away this June. But as a kid...

She would host these epic Thanksgiving extravaganza. She outsourced all the cooking because like, no, she wouldn't do it. Okay. Women in STEM. I love it. There you go. Black women in STEM. We love that. But we'd have some Thanksgivings at the house when I was a kid where it'd be like 25, 30 people. And then we'd finish eating and then someone would start playing music and then we'd be jamming. It was just like a day of beauty. So I was very worried about how I would feel this first Thanksgiving with her gone.

So what happened, long story short, my Aunt Betty came for the whole week, stayed with me at the house. She baked three pound cakes for me and my aunt. Okay, I was about to ask, what did she bake? Yes. Okay. Yes. I got some in the freezer for y'all next time you're here. Seriously. Yes. Yes. And she was just, it was an honor and a joy to be with her this week because...

She was feeling that loss a lot as well. I think my mother and Betty were the closest of the six siblings in their generation. Anywho, long story short, we ended up doing Thanksgiving dinner on the day with a good friend of mine. Y'all know her, Tracy Thomas of the Stacks book podcast. Love her. I knew that I wanted to be with at least some people outside of my family the day of Thanksgiving just so that it wasn't like all of us were in a room

talking about my dead mom for three hours and then like stopping. You know what I'm saying? So Tracy and that dinner just elevated my vibe so much. Such a lovely family, amazing people. And she did the sweetest thing after she and her sister-in-law finished making all of the things and were ready to sit down. In lieu of like a formal grace, she had us all gather in the kitchen and she thanked everyone for being there.

And she thanked those who couldn't be there, including my mother. It was the sweetest thing. She didn't have to do it. She's never met my mother. But that kind of love shown this past Thanksgiving week by folks who are not my family made it a most wonderful week. So my vibe is feeling supported by community.

And feeling grateful that I made it through this holiday that could have been a tragic week. But it was actually pretty great. And let me tell you the truth about Tracy Thomas. She can cook. Okay. Fucking cook. Okay. Gosh. She is just incredible. She's incredible. She's not one of those people who's like wedded to one type of food. She's wedded to finding the best recipe and then executing. So she'll do whatever you need.

And on this Thanksgiving day, her own assistant-in-law made the whole thing. They had a spreadsheet of all the times for the ovens. And before they began the day of cooking, they went to Orange Theory Thanksgiving work. I'm obsessed. I'm a machine. I'm shook. I mean, okay.

Tracy, she's an excellent reader. Her podcast, The Stacks, is excellent. She's an excellent interviewer. I talk to her about that a lot. She used to be a spin instructor. She can do it all. She's beautiful. She's a good gossip. She's a good gossip, which is an unappreciated skill. And now to find out she's a good cook too? Damn. So much. Wow. Some people have it all. They really do. But Sam, I have to say something, and I think our listeners should also take this to heart as well.

I'm so proud of what you did. You did a thing that I've been talking a lot about privately with people is I will say, thank you past self for taking care of future me. Whenever I do something that in the moment I'm like, wow, I'm glad I pooled my resources. I called that person. I took care in a moment where, in which I know me and I know that was going to be really tough.

And not many people do that. And I think that's just so incredible to hear that you said to yourself, this may be tough. I'm going to call people I love. They're going to make me feel good and safe and invite them in. I think the more people you have that around you, hopefully, and please access everybody during hard times. And it was so sweet. Thank you. And like, that's really what happened. Thank you for saying that, Zach. I literally was like, I

I need something for Thanksgiving. I'm not sure what it was. So I texted friends who I know who are in town and Tracy was like, oh, come on by the house. I love that. It was so sweet. And just that simple gesture means so much. Just saying, come on by. When people reach out, just saying, come on by means

means a lot, says a lot, does a lot. Anywho, Tracy, we obviously love you. We love you, Tracy. And we love you too, Sam. For many people, the holiday season is a gauntlet. It's like Thanksgiving is just like the first part. So that's helpful to kind of keep in mind. It's like sometimes bring in more.

help you know that is a perfectly reasonable and in fact brilliant thing to do call on your friends so i love that okay so we have so much to talk about of course last week's episode matthew desmond author of poverty by america the legend the icon that he is

the poverty abolitionist that he is. Your questions were so great. We are glad you enjoyed the episode as well. We did have one correction from one of our listeners because as Matt pointed out, he was like, they're not messing around. I remember at one point he was like, I'm worried they're about to ask me about the footnotes. I was like, it's getting graduate school up in here. This thoughtful note comes from Anna. She writes,

Hi, friends. Just one quick correction to a great point Matt Desmond made about using your own power of purchase to impact poverty, which was to say, and this is kind of a back and forth with Sam, thinking about the brands that we support with our dollars, trying to make sure fair wages, working conditions, how are they treating the people that we are benefiting from?

UPS workers are unionized. And thanks to the Teamsters, their drivers just won a game-changing contract. FedEx workers are not unionized. And of course, USPS workers are unionized too. So as we're holiday shipping and all of that, that's a good time to kind of think about it.

Anna, thank you so much for listening. I also like that Anna said, I'm grateful y'all, you guys are my happy tonic. I like that. That's sweet. Thank you. But thank you, Anna and Matt Desmond again for joining us last week. Listeners, before we get into this episode, I want to thank all of you who send us fan mail, who reach out on social media. We love to read these things. We read them all. All the messages, all the tweets, all the DMs. Keep them coming.

Vibecheckatstitcher.com is our email address. Vibecheckatstitcher.com. With that, let's jump right in. The water's fine. No, it's not, bitch. It's cold. It's super cold. All right. So first up, we're going to talk about Diddy and the slew of lawsuits that have been filed in the state of New York. But before we get into that, let's

Just a heads up, a quick trigger warning. We're going to be discussing some sensitive topics related to violence, sexual abuse, and misogyny. If right now is not the time for you to engage in this convo, turn us off. Skip ahead. The next convo with Elon Musk will be maybe more accessible for right now. But always take care of yourself when listening to the show. So do that right now if you need to.

All right. Last week, the singer Cassie Ventura, who's also just known as Cassie, filed a civil lawsuit against music mogul and ex-boyfriend Sean Diddy Combs under the now-expired New York Adult Survivors Act, alleging that he sexually abused her extensively during their 11-year-long relationship. So this act, which most of us had no idea existed until last week, is very interesting. And activists are calling it

a form of restorative justice, which I love. I love any form of restorative justice. And the reason for that is because this act allows for the statute of limitation that many victims or survivors had passed in their own cases to have a look back window, meaning that if something happened to you years ago, if you were over 18, you could come back and have that case looked into civilly. So it's increased the length of the statute in many cases. What is the longest amount of time under this act that you can look back

back to file a lawsuit? - To my knowledge, there is no, you know, you just have to be above 18. It can go back as far as you can, but it did expire on Thanksgiving. - The act expired. - The act. - Okay, okay. - The act is over. But what is amazing is that statute of limitations, if you're not familiar, is the most basic term. If you go through something, it is the window in which you can bring a suit against someone, either criminally or civilly. Statutes exist.

in favor of the defendants being accused because the longer time passes according to legal experts the harder it is to defend a case so under our current law everyone's innocent until proven guilty which is why it's stacked that way if you're wondering why does this exist yeah and kind of like the predicament is then particularly in the case of sexual assault

The moment you're assaulted, essentially, legally, a clock is ticking. Where you would need to formally introduce charges to begin the justice process. But of course, sexual assault, sexual violence, it's very traumatic. You could still be in a relationship with this person. This person could still be your boss. It could have happened at a time when you didn't understand what

what was taking place was a violation of the law, you know? And so the clock could be ticking. You might not remember it for a very long time. You might not remember. There's mitigating factors. So many things could happen. So you might have been incarcerated at the time that you were assaulted. So a legal clock is ticking. You're running out of time. But also, of course, it often takes people a long time to kind of want to do that work, that legal work.

And so long story short, this act says the clock doesn't tick. You can go back in your life as far as you need to, to make these claims, even if it happened long, long, long, long ago. However, even though this act stopped the clock from ticking.

the act had a clock on itself. - Yep. - This act expired. - Exactly. - And it expired what, last week? - Yeah, end of last week, so the holiday weekend. And in the end of this week, we saw a flurry of suits filed. - To get in before it expired. - To get in before it expired. And I'm gonna circle back to something Saeed said, 'cause that is so important in the context in which we are gonna dive in here today. And it's that many survivors of abuse, it's really a complicated situation.

This could be their lover and their boss and a family member. It could be a lot of things at once, which prevent you from really finding justice in the ways that you may need. And Cassie's suit is kind of the epitome of that.

Cassie's lawsuit detailed very long and very extensive accounts of sexual abuse from Diddy while he was not only just her boyfriend, but also her boss beginning at 19 years old, which makes things very, very complicated for her. And she was 19 for me as a child. That's a young person. And that's when he began. And when she was 19, he was 37.

So, yeah, just in terms of before we even know the details, the power imbalance, your boss is over a decade older than you. Two decades older than you, I guess. 18 years, yeah. Yeah. And is your boss, not just your boss, but one of the most powerful people in the entire industry in which you were getting started. Exactly. So Diddy, when the suit was filed, settled it.

within 24 hours, which is unheard of. For like a lot of money, like $30-something million. For $30 million. And this was just the beginning for him because two other women came forward and filed suits immediately in the wake of the suit.

And what's interesting to the point we made earlier, this was the deadline. And when Cassie filed, we did see a ton of other people file. And that's what's really important before we dive into this conversation. You know, people speaking out, people who are brave enough or able enough to speak out do inspire others to come forward because they do show them how to access systems that they may not have been aware of.

When this act in New York was passed, most people had no idea and they had to release a campaign months ago to get people to realize that the deadline was coming. So in the wake of this, of the PR around this and also the high profile cases,

new york city mayor adams has been accused in a lawsuit jamie foxx former governor andrew cuomo has one singer axel rose bill cosby has another and there are more altogether over 3 000 suits according to the new york times as of two days ago have been filed in new york and that does not include the 10 000 under the child victims act which is very similar but for people under 18 so that's a combined 13 000 new cases

Insight, I'd love to throw to you. Yeah, I wanted to share some context because, of course, you know, the big names, Mayor Eric Adams, Donald Trump, E.J. Carroll's lawsuit, right, that she recently won was done under this law. Certainly Diddy. But I'm interested in, you know, the people who are not celebrities, like what's going on there. So according to The Guardian, of the 2,587 electronic filings in New York state courts under the ASA by the end of last week, more than half of

them.

were prison-related claims against the state, with hundreds of additional filings naming the New York City's Department of Corrections. This is a quote from former inmate Alexandria Johnson, who says she was raped multiple times while incarcerated in state prison and New York City jail. For so long, I didn't have a voice, and it didn't matter. I thought, like, who was I? I have to keep forward because there are so many stories, so many not just mine. So it's a good example of...

you know, the celebrity aspect of this, you know, leads to a certain kind of discussion and let's talk about that. But the celebrity aspect of this is important because often what happens is a woman like Alexandria could see E. Jean Carroll get justice and go, huh,

Or maybe, as Zach pointed out, maybe people didn't even know about this window until there's a high-profile news story. And they go, oh, maybe I should talk to someone. So it's an interesting relationship between the high-profile and kind of everyday people who maybe aren't celebrities. Yeah. I'm thinking two big things in this conversation. One, Zach, you highlighting all of the cases that are coming to the forefront as this bill expires. Yeah.

Points out the reality here is that there's so much of this kind of abuse that no one ever hears about. And it's much more widespread than we think. And so it's a reminder for us to look for warning signs around ourselves. There's a good chance that there's some partner abuse happening in one of your circles.

And you just don't realize it yet. Yeah. This is a moment for us to think about how to be aware. Second point, I think about Cassie and her career and how closely she was tethered to Diddy for so long. You know, she had that debut single, Me and You, back when I was maybe in like college. And then for like 10 or 15 years after that, she was just around Diddy. And I remember she would like be dressed up on a red carpet just standing next to him. But he would be dating someone else and have some other... Mm-hmm.

Like mom for his kids or whatever. And I think about how she looks now, standing, quiet, muted, next to this abuser. And it's like, oh, even though it was money and glitz and glamour and she was on a red carpet, we were looking at a woman who was, if these allegations are true, who was being sexually trafficked. We're watching sex trafficking on a red carpet for the last 15 years.

Yeah, some examples that I think are so striking. One, if you're familiar with Cassie, you'll know at one point she kind of debuted on the red carpet, as Sam is pointing out, like a mohawk kind of buzz cut, kind of look fierce, futuristic haircut. And then you read the lawsuit, and it turns out it was because he had ripped out her hair. Yeah.

And I remember, you know, and it's just really striking. I mean, Cassie is a very beautiful person. I mean, you know, is a celebrity. So it's just that there's something, I guess it's cognitive dissonance. Because I remember, you know, it was like fashion magazines and style blogs are talking about her new hairstyle. And do we like it? Do we not like it? And to realize that in private, this was a...

a victim enduring an act of violence and trying to make the best of it. The lawsuit, the actual lawsuit, the legal document had a trigger warning on it in red ink. Wow. I've never seen that before. Ever. So, so it was like Zach's trigger. This is not, you know, I was like, this is serious. So if you want to read the allegations by all means, but I'm trying to be discerning in what I'm choosing. But another example, often Diddy would send her,

on what looked like luxurious paid vacations. And she might post about it on social media, beautiful pictures, beautiful resorts and stuff. And then the lawsuit's like, yeah, he was sending her on these beautiful paid vacations to recover from the injuries he had inflicted upon her.

You know, so another instance, think about how we use social media to make assumptions about the lives of other people. We go, oh, look at her. She's by a pool. Oh, another spa. What does she have? You know, she's the luckiest person in the world. And it's like, oh, my gosh. You know, so I think you're right. And I guess one of the lessons I would take from this in terms of the celebrity aspect is,

First of all, the obvious thing that Sam's saying, we don't know what's going on in other people's lives. But what we do know, as Sam was pointing out, is that we are survivors and we live alongside survivors and abusers. And so when you log on to Twitter or Facebook or TikTok and da-da-da, and you're making fun of women like Megan Thee Stallion or men or anyone who's been... When you're making fun or mocking or, yeah, Kiki Palmer, undermining...

survivors who have bravely come for why did she wait until the last minute

you are mocking the survivors who live amongst you. And they might not say it, but they're watching you. And it's this cycle because then people are like, well, why didn't this person come forward? Why didn't they speak out? Because they were like, yeah, because they saw how you talked about other people who've been through similar shit. And they felt like, well, that's one less person I can trust. And to give people actual numbers, and I think about this so much. I spent a lot of my career writing about violence. A lot of it was an intimate partner violence because...

People don't realize most homicides, a majority of them are through an intimate partner a lot of times. Wow. Trans murders, a lot of them are a lover who doesn't want to be found out that kills. So a lot of the work I did for years was kind of this diagram. And there were just so many stories. And here's some numbers that really haunt me. And they're from the National Coalition of Domestic Violence.

On average, nearly 20 people per minute are physically abused by an intimate partner in the United States of America. Oh, my God. Per minute? Per minute. During one year. This equates to more than 10 million people.

One in four women and one in nine men experience severe intimate partner physical violence and partner violence during their lifetime. And one in three women and one in four men have experienced some form of physical violence from an intimate partner alone at some point, if you ask them today.

So, if you're at dinner, a brunch of 10, think about that. You walk down the street, every few people you pass, that's someone. So, I think we have to begin to understand that we live in a culture of violence, a culture in which we have survivors who aren't able to come forward. And that's what makes this act so, so big and so huge for people. The reality is that, like, if you can't, in your head, name a survivor that you know personally, you need to sit with that.

because you do know survivors. It just means you don't have the kind of relationship. Yeah, they don't. And that's uncomfortable. But I think that's important work to go, huh? You know, same thing like, I don't know any LGBT people. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. You always do. You always do.

Well, we're going to leave it there for now. But please write into us. Ask us questions. We'll continue this conversation in various ways through our show because we're very interested in helping people have space to tell the truth. And we're just really proud of Cassie for being able to come forward. Yeah. Also, last tidbit. If you or someone you know is dealing with this type of violence, you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline. That number is 800-799-7233. 800-799-7233.

799-7233. You can also, if you want, text the word START to 88788.

Because there's so much queer erasure when we talk about intimate partner violence, I'd like to recommend In the Dream House by Carmen Maria Machado. It's about many things, but it's also about queer intimate partner violence, how rarely it's discussed, why that's the case. And again, you know, if...

If you can't even think of kind of pop cultural or like high profile news examples that align with your own experiences, it can be difficult for you to identify and name what's happening to you. And so I think that's a helpful book in the dream house. Such a good book to recommend. All right. Well, it's time for us to take a quick break, but stay tuned. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people.

My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's change leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

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All right, we're back. You're still listening to Vibe Check. And we're going to switch gears now to sad drumroll, please. Sad, sad drumroll. Elon Musk, as Zahid Jones calls him. Yeah, yeah. Elon Musk is in the news this week. And we're going to use that news peg to talk about what life has been like after one year plus of his reign at Twitter. Now, X.

Elon is in the news this week because he went to Israel. Y'all see this? God. Elon went to Israel. On top of everything else. With everything going on right now. Everything going on. Yeah. Elon went to Israel, met with Benjamin Netanyahu. And this comes after Elon was accused of being anti-Semitic.

through his tweets and after advertisers began to pull out over the anti-Semitism. Quick note on that, at least a dozen major brands halted ad spending as of last Wednesday, including Disney, IBM, Fox Sports, even the European Commission. All of this happened because in a tweet,

Elon agreed with a statement saying that Jewish communities push, quote, hatred against whites. It was a mess. Even the White House came out against it. And then in another tweet seemingly pushing replacement theory, a very, very bad theory, Musk tweeted, quote, you have said the actual truth.

Wild, wild, wild. So as part of his cleanup tour, he is in Israel with Bebe. He has visited a destroyed kibbutz. He has met with some hostages.

What do we make of this, y'all? This is wild. Just the trip first. There's other Twitter stuff, but first the trip. Before we even began, I was like, what has Elon been tweeting today? Because I was interested because he is in Israel doing some really high profile things. Guess what he's tweeting about? Pizza game. What? Memes about pizza game. What is going on? There is...

listen, I, none of it makes any sense. No, I think the only way I rationalize it is we do know there is a stickiness and an engagement factor to being far right on the internet and posting things that are absurd and ridiculous. And he has engineered a profile, especially through this like influencer program where people are paid based on engagement. So it's not even about

quality engagement. You can just troll and then you'll make money doing that way. So he understands the stickiness of his platform, which is now just hate. He's amplifying it and amplifying conspiracy theories and all those conversations and doesn't care about the ethical parts of this. Just cares about the end goal of making sure that people spend more time on his app, even if they're there just to watch it burn down. So that's why I rationalize his ridiculousness because it is really unhinged.

My first thought was there were dozens of advertisers left on Twitter at this point. Look, I still use the app sparingly, but I am there and we can talk about why that's still the case. But it's already so bad. And part of what we've been talking, actually, Brandon and I were talking about this last night over drinks. Social media is infrastructure and he has done such damage to

to media infrastructure. So it's especially galling that what's happening in Gaza is already a stress test for issues like media literacy, democracy, you know, information, disinformation. It's like, you're the problem. What's the tailors with? Me? I'm the problem? It's me? It's like, you, what the fuck are you

Like him going to the heart of it and then meeting with, you know, a far right politician who just, yikes, is what I'm like. This is the second time in.

in recent history in which Elon has tried to insert himself into international affairs. Lest we forget, he calls himself supplying free internet satellites to Ukrainian military forces as that war began through his company. But then he said, actually, psych, I'm going to pull out unless you pay me.

He was affecting people on the ground. And didn't he find out he also throttled like some drones or like he was, he was actually in and he was calling Putin doing all of this. So that doesn't bode well for this. When I look at this and him meeting with BB, it's like, all right, what is Elon's game? What is his end game? One, he wants all of us to pay as much attention to him as possible. And two, he,

I think he fashions himself as a world leader and he wants that in some capacity, whether he runs for office or something else. And that creeps me out. It's very creepy. And I'm realizing, you know, years ago when I worked at Grindr, I had this aha moment of seeing how many people we actually had on the app. You know, at the time it was like,

let's say 5 million every day, use the app for an hour, which is a substantial country. - For an hour. - For an hour. - My people, my people, the point is to get on and get off. - Get on and get off, but no, they're just getting on and staying on. But I quickly, due to being in this tech space and having to go to Silicon Valley and speak at conferences,

I realized that so many tech leaders do run country-sized companies of people, of information. - Facebook is a country. Meta is a country. - And that's where I did agree deeply during the last two election cycles ago when Senator Warren was asking to break up a lot of these companies, or at least monitor them like they are a country or whatever.

Elon is now acting like a dictator. He has a very powerful country, which is Twitter, just a lot of people. And he has a lot of eyeballs and a lot of ears. And he is just choosing, whether it's Twitter or Tesla or whatever, how to activate and deploy these resources without any checks and balances. It's not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. And I want out of the dictatorship that is Elon Musk.

I also just one more point regarding the government of Israel. You know, you can read articles from Rolling Stone or Politico. Israel floods social media to shape opinion around the war. Since Hamas' attack, Israel has pushed dozens of online ads, including graphic videos, to millions of people on every social media platform.

given his own very public bias that he's increasingly kind of leaning further and further into the right and that's elon musk i'm talking about here it's concerning that he you know is spending time with this government that clearly has like a a pretty strong investment in using platforms like x to to shape opinion around the war that's just it's it's concerning but you're right he i think whether he actually wants

to be a actual political leader or just realizes he can become a de facto global leader by inserting himself and his influence into each of these geopolitical incidents.

Yeah, he gets in it and then you can't get rid of him. You know, there was a great New Yorker profile of Elon Musk's outside influence in the war in Ukraine. And basically, once he had inserted himself into this situation with the satellites, you had government officials, high ranking U.S. officials saying, well, we have to call Elon before we do anything.

Because he's so involved now. We have to call Elon. He inserts himself so much you can't get rid of him. Anywho, I want to pivot from his political ambitions or foreign policy goals and talk about how we're also at a moment in which we're a full year and a few weeks into the reign of Elon Musk at Twitter slash X. According to Variety, a year after Elon bought that company, X's monthly users are down 15%.

And ad revenue on that platform has slumped by 54%. This is massive. This is major. I feel like Twitter is dying or at least morphing into something drastically different than what it was just a few years ago.

I want to talk about what happens when we lose that, at least briefly, because I remember old Twitter and it was a big part of my life and my day and my career. And it was really enjoyable at times. I'm thinking of llama Twitter. I'm thinking of what color is the dress Twitter. I'm thinking you're thinking 2014 Twitter. Yeah, that's gone on top of the breaking news resources that Twitter used to provide. I know how y'all feel, but tell me how you're feeling now that it's gone. It's pretty much gone.

It's so God, but I've hit the moment of, I don't know what stage of, you know, grief or whatever that is. But like, I don't even think about it as much as I used to. Twitter used to occupy my entire like psychic abilities every day. I woke up in the morning. It was the first place I went. It was the first place I went. It was the last place I went. I hosted a show on Twitter. Saeed hosted a show on Twitter. Twitter was the pulse of news. It was everything for us. Now, I have no idea. I was in New York at Arby's.

Raquel Wilson's book event for her new book, The Risk It Takes to Bloom, which is wonderful. It's her memoir. And someone came up to me and asked me about some news. And I said, what are you talking about? And they go, you must not be on Twitter. And I had never been so proud of my life. I was like, I am not part of the conversation anymore because the conversation now is just so awful and terrible. And there's no community. It's just I get more far right content than I've ever gotten in my life.

I kept waiting for a while for another space to fill the void.

It seems like it's not going to happen. You know, Blue Sky wants that. Saeed, you like Blue Sky, but it's not nearly as big as Twitter is. Yeah, so the thing is... Oh, first of all, I remember a couple weeks ago, actually on Blue Sky, I was lamenting. I was like, I miss Twitter. I hate that he did this. I hate that I've been forced to... And someone on Blue Sky said, look, all scenes die. Eventually, all, you know, like club scenes, whatever. It all kind of comes to an end at some point. Just understand that's a cycle. But also...

I've been reflecting on that. All social media cycles in terms of how people move on from them, it's not a monolith. So when I was teaching high school in 2010, I remember being surprised how, at the time, so many students of mine in Newark, 99% Black school, they were still using MySpace predominantly. And I was like, who the hell is still on MySpace? They were. These babies were. They were starting to use Facebook.

Which I think a lot of us assumed at that point was already dominant, but not for this community. You know, they were still using MySpace. And so now I feel like we're seeing a kind of moment of that divergence where, yeah, a lot of people, and you can infer who those types of people are, are like, Twitter is over. I'm gone. I'm whatever. But then I log on and conversations about things regarding like, for example, Diddy.

Or Kiki Palmer, when it was announced a few weeks ago that Usher is going to do the halftime show at the Super Bowl. You know, all over Twitter. Because Black users are still really active on there, you know? And look, America is a burning house. Yeah.

And we figured out how to breathe in it. So I don't think it's that unusual that perhaps black users online have a different relationship to toxic spaces. And I guess that could be a whole thesis project. But yeah, I will say you're right. I think there's no going back. There's no resetting the clock. For a long time, I thought maybe we could just like

Wait out, Elon. But I don't think that's how it's going to go. And then alternatives like blue sky, it's invitation only, which

which says a lot. And there are not a lot of black users on there. And I think that's a, that's an interesting. And threads has not really launched in the way that they hope. Like the user usage has fell off a cliff. Right. It was like a really good three day weekend. And then everybody stopped. Yeah. Yeah. We have to wrap, but I want to end with kind of a question I've been asking of myself and of the internet right now, as we watch Twitter do whatever the hell it's doing. Um,

People are writing about this and talking about it, but it's like the larger question for me is, are we entering just a different era of social internet that is more decentralized, that is more of a wild, wild west, and that is less likely to have one platform everyone goes to every day? And if that is the case, how do I survive in that? I feel like it's coming.

And by survive, I mean, you rightfully, it's like, how do I find news information I can count on? Exactly. Culture is so important. So having a sense of the conversations that are going on, yeah, it is important. It's going to be different. It's going to be very different. And I read the Semaphore Ben Smith weekly newsletter. I will come out as an avid reader of it every Sunday. Ben Smith created BuzzFeed, worked with Saeed, he worked

with me, but he's a person in media that has a lot of thoughts on media. And he wrote in his newsletter this week about the fragmentation. And what I did agree with him on is that due to there's not like a one space, one timeline anymore. There's many. It does allow for the internet to return to being a space of surprise like it was in the late 90s where you would get on. No one was going to the same place at all times.

So you could actually find new things and find delight. And there's like a way in which creator communities are expanding really rapidly and can have their own kind of statehoods, really. Like, you know, there's a whole food area that has lots of different people and scale. So I don't know. That's the only thing I'm taking out of this. It's genuine. There is genuine surprise. And I'm surprised every time I get on Twitter. That's a word for it. Yes. Listeners, tell us, how do you feel about this? The demise of Twitter slash X? Yeah.

the rise of new forms of social internet. Matter of fact, we couldn't get to it in this chat, but how do you feel about

about the kids, apparently, in this new version of internet, era of internet, using TikTok like they use Google. I'm obsessed. The kids are searching for things on the TikTok. Sam will not let this go. My sisters just brought it to me. It blew my mind. Any of my elder millennials, Gen Xers, or older listening, how do you feel about this email us to say? One more quick break. When we come back, recommendations.

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All right, my loves, we are back. And of course, before we end the show, we'd like to send you off with some recommendations for things, people, places, TikToks, who knows, that are helping us keep our vibes right. Zach, you want to get us started? Yeah, I'd love to. I'm going to recommend going to see Salt Burn, the movie by Emerald Fennell. She did Promise Young Woman, which was really great with Carrie Moran. Which I liked. Yeah.

Which is really wonderful. It was kind of a fever dream. It also fits perfectly with today's conversation about women who have faced violence fighting back in a very different type of way. Actually, I liked it until the very end. I agree. Which is the argument for Salt Burn 2 by many people. They loved it. Oh, okay. What I like about Salt Burn is it's kind of like in the vein of Cruel Intentions. If you love Cruel Intentions, it's a very sexy movie. Perfect.

Rich kids behaving badly and fucking along the way. Rich kids behaving bad. Yeah, it's like if you loved Atonement and all of those, Weather and Heights. I don't think anyone loved Atonement. I loved that green dress though. But,

But anyway, if you love that genre, you know, the gothic English genre, it's a really great film. Jacob Elordi looks hotter than ever, which we love. But the movie isn't perfect. Wesley Morris has the most scathing review of it in the New York Times right now. So do other people. But I think it's a return to us talking a lot about movies and everyone will have an opinion watching it. And there's a scene with a bathtub that sits with you forever. Yeah.

- Purr, I'm excited to see it. This is good, you know, to kind of temper my expectations, but it has my Caucasian queen, Rosamund Pike in it. - Who's incredible in it. - She really is. - She brings it to you every ball. - She is that white woman. - She does it. - She eats no crumbs. - Okay, I love it, she devours. - You could just watch the movie of her and it would be worth it. - Okay, mood. And then I don't know how to say his last name. I should learn, 'cause I like it very, Keoghan?

Oh, that's easy. He's great. And he's so hot, which is confusing because his character is supposed to be a nerd no one likes, but he takes off his shirt and he's naked a lot. Like fully naked in the next five. Oh, they're naked in this movie? Fully, no prosthetics, fully naked. Salt Burn is a great title too. It's such a great title. I know, it's supposed to be like the name of the estate. The trailer was great. I saw the trailer. The trailer's great. And also, it's set in 2006, 2007 era, and the music is from there. So there's lots of MGMT and other things like that. I might go see that too.

MGMT? Take me back, baby. Okay. Listen, it's all vibes. No real plot depth. So just dive in. Sometimes that works. Listen, take an edible and go to the movies, baby. Ooh, that sounds fun, actually. Okay, Sam, what's your recommendation?

I was going to recommend any number of movies. We are now in watch all the movies season here in LA because we're getting ready for the Oscars and the other award shows. And a bunch of my friends who were in the random guilds and groups are inviting me to their screenings to see these movies. It's been great. Actually, just this weekend, I saw that new Nicolas Cage movie that's delightful. It's called Dream Scenario. He is a random...

middle-aged college professor who all of a sudden starts appearing in everyone's dreams. Everyone's. And at first it's good, and then it's bad, and then he has to face the threat of cancellation, which

over dreams. It's amazing. What a concept. It's so good. And Nicolas Cage is a national treasure. That man can act when he wants to. But I don't want to recommend that. What I want to recommend is a dish. Sweet. A dish. Leave it in Chantel. Leave it in Chantel. No, no, because this dish changed my life. Well,

One of the dishes better connect to this damn movie. This really is a very Sagittarius season kind of moment. I mean, I guess it's just like another white person I like. I don't know. But like Tracy, one of the dishes, one of the dishes Tracy served at her beautiful Thanksgiving dinner last week was this amazing pot of short ribs. And so I'm eating the short ribs and I'm like, these are incredible.

And my aunt Betty's eating the short ribs and she can cook. And she's like, these are some of the best short ribs I've ever had in my life. And this is a woman raised in Birmingham, Alabama, who can cook and throw down soul food.

So we're like, how to do these short ribs? And I'm like, oh, you do a little dry brine for like two days and you do this, then you do that, then you do that. And I was like, I got to make the short rib. And I was like, what's in it? And I was like, oh, it's tangy and sweet and there's soy sauce and other things. And I was like, this is some of the best short rib I've had in my life. And finally, I was like,

Like, send me the recipe. Tell me who did it. Y'all, Alison Roman. I knew you were going there. Alison Roman. When you began saying short group, I was about to be like, Sam, you may not be on TikTok, but you have TikTok basic taste because short group has taken over TikTok because Alison Roman is the beginning and end for a lot of these influencers. So it is a wonderful, easy, perfect recipe, but it is from Alison Roman, who is wonderful. I know she was caught up in some drama a few years ago. I know.

I don't know or even at this point care who she did to anybody else. Alison Roman's short ribs spoke to me. So listeners, if you're trying to cook something really good, Google Alison Roman's tangy braised short ribs recipe. And once you set your short ribs to marinate and dry brine for two days, go see that Nick Cage movie. It's good. The look on Zach's face. I don't care. Both things made me happy.

He said, Sam Sanders, the basic TikTok bitch that you are. I ain't got nothing against that woman, Allison. Which, actually, the pipeline of basic TikTok bitch to watching TikToks on Instagram, that's pretty tight. That's a stroke. Ooh, Zach, tell me how you really feel about me. So, yeah, two recommendations. Dream Scenario by Nicolas Cage. Short Ribs by Allison Roman. Two white folks that, at least this week, I'm fully getting behind.

Let's move on. Saeed? My recommendation this week is from the poet Angel Nafis. She is a dear friend of years now. We actually met over a decade ago on the night of my first featured reading in New York City at Bar 13 and just off of Union Square. She was there. I also met my friend Adam Faulkner that night. So, you know, I love that. Angel is also a Sagittarius and I just wanted to bring kind of the fierce...

optimism, the defiant freedom of the Sagittarius sign into the reading. Her poem is Gravity. You can find it if you Google Gravity by Angel Nafis on the Poetry Foundation's website. It's in two parts. I'm only going to read the second half for the sake of time, but I guess I would say, and it's divided, like part one is the straw, and

And part two is The Camel's Back, which is a pretty clever way to break up a poem. I would say it's inspired, it's after Carrie Mae Weems' The Kitchen Table series, which if you're familiar with that iconic photography series, you're like, okay, vibes. But the first half, I guess I would say, is like a list, a litany of microaggressions that the speaker is just kind of dealing with. And then the second half is like the speaker...

I would say, pushing back quite beautifully. Again, the poem is Gravity by Angel Nafis. Know her. This is so fun. Part two, The Camel's Back. When you born on somebody else's river and a cursed boat, it's all downhill from there. Ha!

Just kidding. I tell you I don't have time for, but I don't have time. Catch up. Interrogate that. Boss. Halo. I juke the apocalypse. Fluff my feathers. Diamond my neck. Boom. Like an 808. One in a million. I don't want no scrubs. You don't know my name. Everything I say is a spell. I'm 25. I'm 90. I'm 10. I'm 20.

I'm a moonless charcoal, a sour lover, hidden teeth beneath the velvet. I'm here and your eyes lucky. I'm here and your future lucky.

God told me to tell you I'm pretty. My skin might as touch the buildings I walk by. Every day I'm alive, the weather reports say gold. I know, I know, I should leave y'all alone. Salt earth like to stay salty. But here go the mirror, egging on my spirit. Why I can't go back, or the reasons it happened.

Name like a carriage of fire. Baby, it's real. The white face peeking through the curtain. Mule and God. I'm blunted off my own stank. I'm bad. I dig graves when I laugh.

That was so fun to hear you read that. It's so fun. That was all one take, everybody. There was no edits. That was just Saeed going. I was reading along while you read and was just like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. My favorite line, hidden teeth beneath the velvet. Woo!

soft, beautiful, but I can bite back. That's good. And I will reiterate, if you are a person like some of our friends that have come to me who said, I didn't really know how to read poetry until I became friends with Saeed, you should reinterpret

re-listen to Side Reading Poetry every week and read along. It will teach you the mechanics of poetry. It's really fun. It's so fun. And I just think, you know, I try to find poems not just that I love, but that I think will increase your love of poetry. Especially people who say, like, I don't get it. And it's like, yeah, look, this is out here. These are people alive now doing great work every day. And yeah, read it out loud to yourself. It's fun.

Angel Nafis, girl, you're my favorite mystery. Gravity, that's her poem. So listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's your vibe? Mad love to all the Sagittariuses. Let us know how your season is going, my dears. Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend and then another friend.

Huge thank you to our producer, Chantel Holder, engineers Sam Kiefer and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also, shout out to Chantel Holder's mama who listens every week. We love you. We love you. Also, special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stenture and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And a big thanks to our intern, Julia Russo. Listeners want to hear from you. Do not forget, you can email us whenever you want.

vibecheckatstitcher.com, vibecheckatstitcher.com. Also, keep in touch with us on Instagram. Probably not X, just Insta. I'm at Sam Sanders. Zach is at Zach Staff. There's an H on that Zach. And Saeed is at The Ferocity. All right, use the hashtag vibecheckpod if you post about the show. And IRL,

in real life, tell a friend about Vibe Check, grab their phone from them, and subscribe to the show for more. Wow. Do that. Be bold. Oh, actually, shout out to the young woman who saw me on my flight from New York last night. I was like, I'm a fan. I'm a fan of you. I loved your earrings. All right. Have a good week. Anywho, yes, listeners, love to meet it. Talk next week. Bye. Bye. Stitcher.

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