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Hello, ladies. It's Saeed here. Before we start this week's episode, I have some exciting news to share with you. We have not one, but two live events coming up very soon. That is right. Vibe Check Live and in Color. Boston, you can catch us on Thursday, June 22nd at WBUR City Space. And for our friends in New York, you can see us on Friday, June 23rd at

the iconic 92nd street. Why I'm so excited to be going back there. I think this is my third time getting to do an event at 92nd street. Why? And it's just, I feel like a legend. I love getting to like sign your name and this big, beautiful book they have. And it's like James Baldwin signed this

book Maya Angelou signed this book so we'll be there and this time we'll be signing our name in the book with special guest Penn Badgley yes our favorite serial killer the only man that we stand with blood on his hands get into it these are our first two live events ever we hope this is a big

Thank you.

I won't be able to protect you from him. The wrath of an auntie is just not something you want to compete with. So friends, be there or be dealt with.

Hello. Lady. I guess at this point, our listeners are canonical ladies. Yeah, they're our ladies. Ladies transcends the gender binary. Yes. It's like y'all. It's just y'all. It really is. Well, hi, friends. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And you're listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

As you can tell so far, our sister Sam is out today, which we miss her dearly. So it's going to be Saidi and I holding it down, discussing a lot of things that have happened over the weekend. Girl. Which were really chaotic. Yeah.

Well, one thing was really chaotic. The other, I think, is really necessary. So the first chaotic thing is Bebe Rexha, who I can't name one of her songs, sadly. No shade. I just don't know her music. I have to be honest. I can't either. But that has nothing to do with it. That has nothing to do with it. It does not mean she deserves to have a phone thrown at her. So we're going to talk about that incident, what it tells us about fandom these days and, you know, how you girls can't be present at a concert.

And then we're also talking about the breaking news over the weekend that the BMI, or the Body Mass Index Measurement System, is being thrown out. Because it is racist, which we've all known, and we're going to break that down for you. But before we get into all that, let's do a little check-in. And I must know, Saeed, how are you doing? Because you're not home, I can tell. Child, I...

First of all, I will say, you know, in Columbus over the weekend, we celebrated Columbus Pride on Saturday. I was looking at the numbers. It was like something like nearly 700,000 people showed up. 700,000 people? Columbus is like a million people. The Metropolitan Area is about a million people. 18,000 marchers. It was huge.

I mean, I will say, you know, my friends and I, we paid to get like great seats. And, you know, very quickly I got in line around, I don't know, eight o'clock in the morning, hung over from the night before and all that. I couldn't believe I had made it. And we sit down and then, you know, suddenly you're surrounded by a sea of people. And I assumed we were at the beginning of the parade just because there was so much energy. Uh-uh, honey, we were midway. I was like, what? Oh.

It's just incredible. And of course, we've spoken about pride and our anxieties and everything. But I mean, just sheer numbers and joy. It was like there's a way you can kind of like have a show of force just by the consensus of people who show up. And if that, you know, that turnout and the joy and it

was safe. And, you know, I just, I've been checking in with people. It seems like consistently I saw a few vibe check fans, people were having a good time. I think it was a powerful message, you know, to the state of Ohio, to the Midwest about the reality of queer visibility, acceptance, our love of trans people and trans youth. It was like, no, no, no, don't get it twisted. Mike DeWine, JD Vance, you are the minority. We are the majority. That's it.

And I love hearing just the sheer density of people because, you know, when you see it in New York or even Chicago, really, it's kind of expected. You kind of take it for granted. You're like, okay. Especially in New York where there's like a Brooklyn Pride. There's a Long Island Pride. There's a Queens Pride. But when I hear of it in Columbus especially or a Nashville Pride, that's when I get really excited because you know those are regional prides too. Like everyone in those surrounding areas are driving potentially hours into town to be a part of this moment. So it's just...

It's so heartwarming to see. And it also makes, I think, so many queer people, probably yourself included, living in the city, know that there's more supporters than there are enemies in town. Yeah, it's an important statement. And yeah, I remember in college being on summer break and going to Pride in Atlanta for the first time.

And yeah, it was exactly what you're talking about, where one, you're not in a city where you kind of take it for granted. But also, right, where it's like this kind of regional statement. And it's so interesting. At times, I think I can be cynical about visibility and representation. But look, when you see just thousands and thousands and thousands of people in every direction and such diversity in every way, and people are happy and just...

I cannot disregard how powerful that felt. Yeah. No, it is. And I also have to say, you said Atlanta, and that took me back to being, God, 16. I think it was my first Pride. And I was in Atlanta with my mom. I stepped out at the time. And our neighbors and their son, who was my best friend. And he's two years older than me. And we were just in town for the weekend. And it just so happened to be Pride. And we were staying down the street from it. So he and I went for a walk. And when we got to the park, it's in...

Piedmont Park. Piedmont Park, yeah. He's super cool. He's super inclusive. He's not homophobic at all. But he saw these gay people and he's like, oh my God, there's so many. It's a pride. This is crazy. Let's go. And I was like, okay, yes, I want to go. And he grabbed my hand and said, let's hold hands so people think we're a couple. I am fascinated by where this story is going. Girl, I held on to that hand. This little journey that you two are on. I was just like,

It shook me. And, you know, it really filled me up emotionally. You sick people thinking. Wait, wait, wait, wait. He said, let's hold hands. So no. Yeah. You're trying to be like thoughtful and like lyric. And I'm like, wait, wait, let's hold hands. So no one thinks we're a couple.

No, he thinks though people think we're a couple, but they don't want to hit on us. Because he's like, you know, we're not gay, right? And I was like, girl, I'm gay. And I'm really gay right now. So whenever I hear the words Atlanta Pride, I get very happy. And Atlanta Pride happens in the fall because Atlanta's so hot. Because it's so damn hot. So damn hot. So yeah, so that was great. And now I'm in Pittsburgh for work. And I will see you, I guess, tomorrow in Boston. Yeah, tomorrow in Boston. This week is a journey. Wow.

That is wild. I will see you tomorrow, Boston. I was looking at my email and I was like, I genuinely don't know where I'm going to be tomorrow. And I was like, oh, Boston. Okay. I mean, you're bouncing, bouncing. Well, I'm excited to see you. Yeah, I'm excited to see you too. Cute, cute. But, you know, I think festivals are the theme this week because I went to two festivals this weekend, I think. Oh, Juneteenth? Yeah. As we all know, if you're black and gay in America, on June 19th, you have superpowers because it's Pride Month.

month and, you know, Juneteenth, the celebration of, you know, slavery ending or all black people finally realizing that slavery was over because, you know, the whole purpose of the holiday is because a town in Texas didn't know for two years. Galveston, Texas. It's a, yeah, Juneteenth is, how do you feel about Juneteenth? I, you know, there was a tweet. I know Jay Wortham shared it, but it was like, it's peak Juneteenth when black people don't even know if they're working or not because it's become this thing where like,

White people that work in tech in certain industries, definitely off now. Federal holiday. Black people, TBD. Don't really know. Don't work jobs that allow that to happen. So it doesn't feel, I don't know. And like growing up, we didn't do that much for it. It was something we talked about, but it wasn't this huge thing. And now it feels like we have to perform, you know, being black. And I do now because it's become so popular.

I go to the Juneteenth celebration with Brandon, who's a producer on the show, in Leimert Park. And Sam comes too sometimes. And it's a big celebration in one of the black enclaves of LA. But even this weekend, it became a corporate pride. Oh, wow. Corporate Juneteenth. Corporate Juneteenth. Yeah, Corporate Juneteenth has arrived finally in America. And Amazon Music bought out the festival, built stages, and

Brought in Too Short, Wale, Jasmine Sullivan. But what they did is like they took over a very community event, which I love and I go to all the time every year. But they didn't build the right infrastructure to really support the influx of people that are coming from outside the community because Jasmine Sullivan is a star, a huge star. So it basically turns it into like a celebrity-led music festival? It became like a music festival and it just – they had to cancel last night.

last minute. I left right before because of stampeding. Because there were too many people too excited. And they had to cancel it. So Juneteenth, which like last year when I was there, Issa Rae threw like a barbecue. Lizzo showed up and was buying drinks for people. It was very low key, very neighborhood. It got canceled. So, you know, it's complicated. And that's kind of the thing about community events when they hit the mainstream. Like, do they lose the intimacy there? What happens? Who takes them over and all that? So it was still fun though. It was a beautiful day. But did you celebrate Juneteenth this weekend?

I have a melancholy relationship with Juneteenth, I guess. I mean, and I say that as a black person from the state of Texas, it's where the holiday is from, right? It's about black enslaved people in the state of Texas, particularly around the area of Galveston, Texas, basically finding out in a very delayed way that they had been emancipated.

Which is, you know, to me, it's such an important holiday to acknowledge, you know, the way power controls information. Because that's what it is. It's like, you know, at the point that you've been emancipated, but the white slave owners who have been, you know, domineering you have made sure you haven't found out –

It's like a different, we've extended the betrayal, we've extended the harm. And that to me is really what Juneteenth is part of acknowledging. And so it was really interesting to see like President Biden's Twitter account posted like a video, a little montage.

And maybe I didn't see the whole bit, but I don't think they mentioned enslavement or the state of Texas at all. And so the way that Juneteenth – and you're right. This corporate – this is what happens. It's like these ideas that have a very specific history and meaning are kind of blown up to this outsized –

universal way. You know, I saw, I think in like a state like somewhere like South Carolina, one city, they had white people on their Juneteenth banners, you know, around the city. It just loses its meaning. And so I just, I don't know, man. I don't know. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Well, anyway, friends, before we get into the rest of the episode, we want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail and reached out to us on social media. I saw your posts and your messages about my conversation with Roxane Gay in our bonus episode. I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as we did. And of course, we love hearing from you. But also, we have an Advice Mailbag episode coming up.

very soon. So send all of your advice questions to vibecheckatstitcher.com. You can ask us about work, life, relationships.

Men. Anything. Men. Yeah. Men. Whatever. Especially men. Yeah. And if you want personal stories, there's some men I'm willing to drag on the show. You know, I've had enough space in my life to consider it now and some healing that I can bring it back up. That's true. My list does get longer. So maybe we should check some of those boxes. Yeah. Anyway, that's vibecheckatstitcher.com. But let's jump in, Zach, shall we? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.

All right, first we are going to talk about the pop singer Bebe Rexha essentially being assaulted over the weekend while performing for a laugh. And that is from the words of the person who did it to her. So Bebe Rexha was performing and a fan who was towards the front of the crowd while she was on stage threw his cell phone like right at her. I've seen the video several times.

This is what he said when he was eventually arrested. Quote, I was trying to see if I could hit her with the phone at the end of the show because I thought it was funny.

This person, Nicholas Malvagna of New Jersey, has been charged with several counts, basically, of assault and harassment. An attempted assault. Bebe Rexha posted to TikTok showing that she had a black eye. I think she needed at least three stitches. She was smiling, trying to handle this in good grace. But, I mean, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. This fan...

assaulted someone who was trying to do their job, trying to bring joy to people, you know, during a concert. And so, I mean, one, I was very alarmed when I saw this, but also, and Zach, I feel like we've been texting about this. I feel like we've been seeing instances of fans, particularly at concerts,

wilding out in a way that I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it's a little worrisome, right? It's worrisome. And I think there's like a lot going on in why this is happening. You know, we did sit inside for a while and people haven't been outdoors. So they forgot their manners and how to be in public. But I also think there's the rise of being content creators and people looking to create a moment, you know, whether it's filming someone at the grocery store

acting in a way that you think could make you go viral. You know, the rise of filming traffic stops because you want to have justice arrive. Like we've been trained to always be surveilling each other and thinking of producing moments, but it's all kind of coming to a head at concerts as concerts are booming. And, you know,

We all have seen it. Concerts are a huge industry right now. You know, it's creating inflation in Sweden for like Beyonce's concert in Sweden, which is crazy. Taylor Swift has generated billions in dollars. And so is Beyonce in money being spent around the countries that they're currently touring. So concerts are a big thing right now and people are filming them and people are really acting up. And this,

For me, it makes me really worried for musicians. Like, I kind of saw this coming with Beyonce's tour because when we were in London, we weren't pretty close to her. There's not a lot stopping you from throwing something. And people have been engaging her with the gender reveal envelope the other day. Let's talk about that. Yeah. So she was in Berlin. You know, and to be clear, this is very different than Bebe Rexha in that Beyonce clearly was involved. But essentially, they got her an envelope. Yep.

That was like asking her to, yeah, I think they handed it to the dancers and then she, and I've watched several videos of it because that's what happens. That's why people do this. They know everyone's going to be videotaping it. But yeah, she opens up an envelope and it's a girl and she says congratulations and everything. But I was a little, I mean, one, gender reveal party is just a cursed notion. And I was like, please do not bring this into the space of Renaissance. Beyonce should have been like, entertain them. And Justin's like, really? Yeah.

Messed with everybody at Berlin. But it's odd. I mean, I think of, you know, Ariana Grande, a performer who literally, you know, endured and is still, I think, reckoning with a literal bombing at one of her concerts in the UK. And then, you know, instances where, you know, people are throwing stuff on stage and or yelling, you know, and it's like, you don't know kind of what they can hear, what they can't hear. Maybe you're assuming...

It's in jest and fun, but that could be very scary for a performer. Yeah. I get nervous for them. You know, when I saw Beyonce the other day, I had to swipe through. You know how when you get on TikTok and you see one video, and I think the algorithm can tell you we're engaged, whether good or bad, so it keeps serving you more and more. I was getting hit.

multiple times with the video of Beyonce when she was touring years ago and a fan grabbed her off the stage. Right. You see that? Yeah. It literally pulled her off into the crowd. And I just got so upset watching it and kept showing it over and over because, you know, we do sit at these concerts and look at these stars and just think, oh my God, I can't believe you're real. I can't believe you're in front of me. I can't believe I'm getting to pay witness to you. But those are people looking back at you. And we're,

We have been on stages not as big as these huge tours that even Bebe Rexx is on, but we've been on certain stages too. And I see everyone's face. I see people smiling. I see people laughing. You see people engaging with you. So Beyonce sees you, Bebe sees you. So when you do these actions where you're reaching out, throwing something to them, it does destabilize a person that's sitting up there. They are a performer. And that's where I'm just confused that when did we lose the fact that these are people, not just kind of illusions?

And then to be clear, this fan, why are we calling him fan? This person who was at this show with Bebe Rexha, I mean, it's a clear escalation, right? This is not throwing a T-shirt or I'm thinking of a Nitra from RuPaul's Drag Race with the duck walk thing. And people were throwing like little cute plastic ducks when she would perform. And this person said, I thought it would be funny if I could hit her with a phone.

a metal object, he gives this person a black eye. So this is very different, but all of it, it feels like it's on a continuum of surveillance as entertainment, a desire for attention, and almost this

main character syndrome. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just feels, and I'm thinking of a few months ago, the singer Kehlani was assaulted and grabbed again during a public appearance by a quote unquote fan. And so I guess there's something here to me where people are presumably spending a lot of money to go see these performers. I think often they regard themselves as fans or even stans.

And then they are acting in outrageous or even hurtful ways. Last night I was reading about Harry Styles Uber fans that were so insistent on maintaining their spots towards the front of the stage. They were like peeing in the venue because they were like, I'm not giving up. Listen, it is wild out here. It is wild out here.

There was something... This is making me think about... We haven't talked about this yet. Is that... I was watching something the other night. And Craig asked me... And we don't... We're not talking about the idol. We sure aren't. We are not talking about the idol. Don't want to get into it. I'm not watching that show anymore. Zach is... I can't tell you how many times Zach is trying to lure me in to watching the idol. And I said, not in this house. I...

I have tried and now I've given up because I have too given up on this show. But there is a lot of scenes with Lily Depp character being kind of engulfed in fans and people trying to get at her. And this very like early 2000s, late 90s way in which you saw paparazzi really swarming people. And Craig asked me, he's like, is that still real? Does that still happen?

And the only thing that's different for me now is that instead of paparazzi, it's people acting like paparazzi. And we've begun to embody all those bad habits that we saw that killed Princess Diana and have hurt many, many celebrities emotionally and physically where we were seeing them get pictures, their pictures taken. And Black Mirror hits on it too in an episode, which I think we're gonna talk about Black Mirror later.

Like we have begun to embody the surveillance celebrity state to where we're trying to enrage these celebrities into acting in a way so we get the content that goes viral and make, you know, makes you famous for a second. Wow. That's so interesting. So it's like thinking in a collective sense, it's like, you know, we didn't get the lesson. I mean, it was, you know, if you think of the late nineties, but certainly I would say the early two thousands, I think there was a real consensus that the paparazzis were

like it was violent it was invasive you know and it felt like it was like this is not it this is not what we as fans or consumers want to participate in yeah and you're right it's almost like okay so then the paparazzi culture begins to die down as media changes and now we all now we all have cameras on our phones and instead of saying well we will never do that it's like we're doing it

I would say way worse, maybe? Yeah. Way worse. And also, like, there's not a real, not that this rationalizes it, but this is, okay, this is my big hot take on Instagram. When Instagram launched, I was so confused why people wanted to, not even launched, over the past few years, I've been so confused at why people want to cosplay as influencers with brand deals beyond the obvious money. So a lot of influencers make a lot of money. But I see people cosplaying, checking into restaurants, taking photos, tagging restaurants, actualizing.

acting like they're in a partnership with the restaurant when they're not getting paid. And I'm confused that when we all became chief marketing officers for people for free, and that's what we've all become obsessed with. So that's like one lane of social media of becoming marketers of brands that you're actually making nothing and you're spending money there. But now we're seeing this emergence of we've all become paparazzi-esque and we're all trying to have the

perfect video to expose something. It's so much of these TikToks with Beyonce or Taylor Swift or whoever performing where we're showing like them fighting with their crew or when something goes wrong or when there's this obsession with showing Beyonce lip syncing certain parts of her concert allegedly because people want to catch her. It just feels like big

cop culture that we've made into like fun social media culture, which I don't enjoy. It seems like in the way that when we talk about forums like Facebook and Twitter, where the keyboard so-called becomes this mental barrier between actual social interaction, which is to say,

many of us are more likely to say things, for example, on Twitter that we would just not ever say to someone if we were sitting directly across from them in the same room. It's interesting that it's almost like the idea of recording someone on your phone in the moment. First of all, it takes you out of the moment because you're trying to record it so you're not physically present, mentally present, I guess. But also it kind of takes your like,

presence out of it. Yeah. A bit. I mean, you know, because it's, you know, TikTok pranksters, which I hate. Oh, I hate. The way it feels like now, it's like every time I'm in New York, I'm scared to walk across Washington Square Park. Yeah, I will not go to Washington Square Park.

Please don't walk up to me and ask me what I'm wearing. I will run. No, but you know what I mean? That sense that just like even when you are physically right in front of someone, it's like the phone is now becoming this barrier that is making people check out. I don't know. Maybe we're just coming up with an elaborate excuse for an asshole throwing a phone at a woman. I think he's like the worst version of this of like, oh, I'm going to a concert to –

It seems like he came in with a plan. He's like, I want to do this thing to create a moment that's created a news cycle, which is gross. But I think many people are always looking for a moment to create a content virality moment. And I love what Adele has been doing with her show in Vegas because I think you're not allowed to bring in your phones. Or there's like some phone check that happens. And a lot of shows are doing this. And I really like it because when we were at the Beyonce show, I kept catching myself putting my phone up and just recording things.

And I was like, girl, are you actually going to rewatch these? No. What about just like you being here, consuming it and having the memory? Like make this so special that you remember it forever. Don't rely on this phone. And I think people need to start putting the phones down. I went to an immersive theater production in London, the Burnt City. If folks want to look it up, it's really fun. And when you go in, they give you like a little bag and you put your phone in it and they literally like zip tie it.

And if you go to the bar, like the bartenders can open it up so you can access your wallet or whatever. And then they close it right back up. And it was such a relief. I was delighted. Three hours where I couldn't even touch me. You just, you really have to be in that space. And maybe that's where we need to go mentally, y'all.

Yes. Turn your phone off. Touch grass. Just be present. Actually, everyone, go see a show without your phone. See what happens. Turn it off. Touch grass, but don't touch nobody. Keep your hands and your belongings to yourself. I can't believe we have to explain that. Anyway, well, we'll leave it there for now. Bebe Rexha, girl, I hope you're okay. It's really, it's just...

it's scary. I hope it's not a trend. I hope it's just a one person acting wild. And I also have to say, Bebe Rexha, what I do know about her is she is a great ally. She showed up for queer people. She plays prides. So if we all do this during pride month to a woman that has been really out here for us is really just despicable. Wow. Because just don't do it to Carly Rae Jepsen, please God.

Don't do it to anybody. Don't do it to anybody. Honestly, well, we should move on. But I'm like, we're throwing our phones at the wrong people. Anyway. There are other people. You must. There are other people. It's time for us to take a quick break. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. All right, sisters, ladies, when you think of summer, what feels to you quintessentially summer? I have an answer, but I want to hear from y'all. Festivals. Festivals? Yes.

Music festivals, being outside. Music festivals, getting outside. I love them all the time. And I'm happy to now talk about what I think is the best summer music festival. It is called the Essence Festival of Culture, presented by Coca-Cola. It's back in New Orleans for its 29th year. And let me tell you, if you like music festivals, if you like concerts...

You gotta be there. This is the one. This is the one. This is the one. And it's been the one. The four-day event runs from June 29th through July 3rd. This year's Essence Festival is extra special as it includes a curated 50 years of hip-hop celebration. And they have...

They have the most amazing people to help show those 50 years of hip hop and who has helped pioneer that. They got people like Miss Lauryn Hill, Missy Elliott, Megan Thee Stallion. They're all performing. And I just, to see those girls together is just iconic to a level I can't even believe. Just getting Lauryn Hill is iconic. Like, come on. The Essence Festival of Culture, presented by Coca-Cola, has something for everyone. It is truly a multi-generational experience.

the kiddos and the aunties and the youths and the elders. And the uncles are invited as well. Yes. Also, this is great. You can receive special rates on hotels when booking through essencefestival.com. So don't wait. Sign up for a weekend of culture. I like that. A weekend of culture at essencefestival.com.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, WeAreGolden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

Welcome back. And we're going to switch gears a bit to some breaking news over the weekend that I've been kind of waiting for for a long time. And I'm just so glad we're all now going to have this conversation. And before we jump into it, I just want to give a quick trigger warning to folks who may not want to hear a conversation on weight or body image or anything doing with food or disordered eating. So if that's you, cool. That's me some days too. Just skip ahead and listen to our recommendations in about 10 minutes. So with that being said, let's get into it.

So the American Medical Association, or the AMA, has voted to not rely only on body mass index, or what you probably know it as BMI, as a long-used but potentially misleading metric anymore.

This is used when they're assessing weight and health, and you probably have had your own doctor try to measure BMI, and it was probably really awkward. It's always just terrible. It's so, so awkward. The policy officially recognizes the historical harm of BMI and states that the metric has been used for racist exclusion in their new statements about this, which is really necessary because this metric is over 200 years old, and it was literally designed only for white people.

And by that, I mean this astronomer and mathematician, depending on what career you want to focus on, named Adolphe Jacques Quitalet, I think is how you say it, created this measurement which really just takes your body weight in kilos and uses a formula that calculates your actual body length and creates the BMI, which does not include all types of bodies. Literally, it's only for bodies probably in the Netherlands. And again, just to underscore, this person was not even a physician.

Not a physician. Even if a physician had come up with this formula, it would still be problematic and really frustrating. But the fact that it's just a mess. And for you to, I guess, to cut,

to help clarify, because this really helped it for me, and then we can get into the nitty gritty here. To clarify how bad the system is, is that certain celebrities currently are ranked as obese that you would never imagine as obese. And even the term obese is kind of archaic. So people like Will Smith has historically been categorized as obese. Vin Diesel, The Rock, anyone really muscular, probably the Hemsworths as well. But if you're muscular or if your body isn't, you know, a traditionally very skinny white body, you're obviously

immediately calculated as obese, and it just isn't right for a lot of people. So that's the news. Saeed, how are you feeling about this change? Did you even care? Have you had any experiences that come to mind? I think it's a good change. I think it is long, long overdue, which is a little frustrating, but I'll take it. We're going to take this win. We're going to take this win. I was trying to think of when have I last had to deal with being...

check-ins and all that. And it was really 2017 to 2019, I hosted a morning show for BuzzFeed News. You took over for me, so I guess we could talk about that experience. - Our shared experiences. - That shared experience. And the show runner and executive producer was frankly a very toxic person, a woman of color.

And two experiences come to mind. One, we were doing a screen test right before the show launched and I was wearing like a, I don't know, a V-neck sweater. And we were supposed to be testing for colors and lighting. She was five months pregnant at the time. And afterwards, we were looking at the footage and she said to me in front of the other host, my friend Isaac, you know, you look like you're the one who's five months pregnant, Saeed.

And I just remember being like so stunned. I'll never, I don't think I've worn the color baby blue since, to be honest. I remember just kind of keeping it to myself and I just got all the way home in Harlem, you know, an hour or so later and got on the couch and just burst into tears. It was so hurtful and I was already working so hard. I was doing everything I could, you know, but I think it's so often the case, you know, whether it's,

BMI index or all of the other ways hate has been stitched into what we think of as fitness and healthcare, we can kind of take it in on ourselves. You know what I mean? Someone says something hurtful to you and you take it on yourself. So then I'm doing a meal plan that I hated. I'm working out with a trainer who I didn't really like. And we were doing, I think we would do

body mass index check-ins like once a month. And I was at this time skinnier, not that being skinny is the point, but I was skinnier then than I am now. And he was basically telling me that I was nearly obese according to the BMI. And he would say it in a very nice way. And he was trying to be very inspirational about it. But I even then knew enough that I was like, this is bullshit. But yeah, did you, what was it like? Yeah.

So, I mean, you talk about this. I'm like flashbacks. We haven't quite talked this much about it. Yeah. We're having our war stories now. Yeah. I'm having flashbacks to that show. That show was a ride for many reasons. Yeah. But when I was on AM to DM, I knew your own story with this. You told me privately about it. And it did kind of increase my anxiety entering, you know, a television space. Because I'd done television hits on different cable networks before. But to host and anchor a show is very different. Mm-hmm.

And also the show was so, it was an hour long and there were multiple sets and your whole body was seen all the time. And you're always sitting next to celebrities who are literally in the middle of a press cycle where they have come off a Marvel movie and they are looking like the apex of what society says they should look like. And then you're sitting next to them talking to them. So you feel this pressure.

So I entered the show and literally week one with a different, this was a different producer. I remember they had served cake as like a, it may have been your goodbye cake or something. There was a cake or something. And because there was a moment where we overlapped as you were saying goodbye and I was saying hello to the audience. And the cake came out and me and my co-host were sitting there and a producer came up and was like, do you guys want a slice? Yes.

And I was already anxious about eating. Cause I'm like, and I, for context, these people know I have a bad eating disorder since I was a kid. Like I was in and out of programs and all these things. I'm very sensitive to it. And, um, I was kind of interested in a piece of cake, you know, I was like, okay, sure. Like we're here, we're bonding with people. I want to have cake. And he joked that me and my cohost should split a piece because in our contract, um,

It says there is a clause in there. And this was true that, you know, we had to rep, I forget the language, but it was something to the effect of like what we look like when we were hired is how we had to consistently be. Yeah. Like I wouldn't have been able to cut off my dreads in the middle. And you can't on the show. We could not change our hair. You couldn't do different fashion choices. You couldn't do any dye choices without it being approved. Like nothing could be changed.

And he said it in a joke, but was very serious. And I think I went to like a soul cycle right after. I didn't eat the cake and it wouldn't have worked out. And it really, it's like those little moments of like, oh,

that really get to you. And the BMI only inflates that, especially as black people, because our bodies, you know, can be different no matter your race, actually. And you walk into a doctor, you know, with any baggage around weight or health, and they measure you in this way, and you may not be the BMI that you may think you are, it can really, really...

mess with you and why it's such a bad system is that it took what he thought the scientists and mathematician thought was the average body which was like a Nordic body of a certain time period and made them the center like literally centered a white man of a certain weight and said that this is the average so if you were not that

You're never going to be that. And then you just feel the weight of that every day. And it just becomes a white man of a certain time as well. I mean, 200 years ago, bodies change norms, as you point out change. And I think what makes the BMI so dangerous is the experiences we're talking about, you know, these, I mean, I,

I would say they're aggression, aggressions or microaggressions. You know, those are often the catalyst for people to have to, or feel that they're supposed to interrogate how they look their body. Should I go, like you said, like you're, you're going to soul cycle. I'm like, let me go get a trainer, all, you know, just miserable and doing all this stuff. And the reason I think it's so dangerous is those catalysts then send us running toward something like the body mass index, which is treated like it's neutral math.

Like it's just a fact, two plus two equals four. And that's not the case at all. And so it's just, it's really scary to think. And I mean, and we're just talking from our experiences. You and I, by the way, are not considered obese. We are not generally considered people who are like overweight. And so this leads to a whole other issue

plethora of issues when people who have different bodies go to get medical care for something not related to weight. And so often, doctors will be like, well, according to your BMI, that's the main issue. That's why you can't sleep or that's why you're... You know what I mean? And so it becomes...

This math that I think so often healthcare providers or fitness providers are overly reliant on. I think it's become for so many of them a crutch for their bias, to be honest. I don't think it's just that they are quote-unquote like lazy people.

I think it's also that our culture hates fat people. Our culture hates bodies that aren't like slender bodies. Yeah. And that's the thing is that when you realize these systems are being engineered towards whiteness and thinness and that they will do whatever they can to push you that way is when you see real harm happen.

And why that's so harmful to anybody that isn't naturally thin and white and all these things is imagine walking into your doctor who may not look like you. And the first thing they do, you come in and you say, I don't know, you've been having headaches. And they say to you, and this happens all the time, have you thought about your diet? Have you thought about losing weight? That usually helps because that usually is the first thing a doctor

will say is like lose weight. And you're sitting there having someone that looks nothing like you, that knows nothing about your experience, telling you you need to shape your body to look more like them as much as you can to then feel better because they think that's what makes them feel better. And they're never asking questions about like, well, what's going on at work? What's going on with your family? Is the stressors, they're not really getting into it with you to really diagnose you in a real way. And that has a lot to do with the healthcare system and like lack of time that people have. But at the end of the day, we need, I tell this to people all the time,

You should have a medical care team if you can that looks like you or has shared experiences like you because then they will understand more and more about what you're going through and not just use systems like BMI to have a full conversation with you and have a bigger conversation with you. Because that's what's happening is these doctors come in like, okay, they perceive you as obese and they're like, okay, just lose weight. Let's start there and see what happens because in their head they think thinness can solve everything. And let me tell you, I know a lot of skinny people in LA and they are not fixed. They are not happy people for being skinny.

skinny. I mean, what I think about a lot is that trainer I was mentioning worked for Equinox. And I say that because when, you know, a week or two ago, there were those wildfires in Canada that were just making New York in particular look fully apocalyptic. That photograph that everyone was talking about of people doing yoga atop the edge in New York, that was an Equinox fitness program. You know, and so it's an instance in which

it just exposes that fitness is not necessarily about health. Healthcare is often in this country, not actually about your health. The BMI is not about health either. And so that's, we got to get rid of it. Yeah. Well, we can talk about this for a long time, especially the fitness industrial complex that's spun up against us and getting people addicted to hurting themselves over and over. But that is for another day. Well, with that, we're going to take another quick break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with our recommendations.

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All right, my loves, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd both like to share something with y'all that's helping us keep our vibes right or throwing them off in a way that's healing. I don't know. We'll see. We will see. Zach, why don't you get us started?

Okay, so I'm really excited to share a show that is brand new and it may become shit. So sorry if it becomes shit because it just began. Oh, there's like one episode? It's two episodes. And it's a show called Swiping America now on Max, formerly known as HBO Max. And it's a new dating show, but it's very different than any other dating show I've seen. They categorize it as a ROM documentary or a ROM doc.

And what the premise is, is they have four singles who are from New York. They all live in New York City. They all have lives. They're all, I think, 30 to 38. And they all want to be in a serious relationship. So they take them to multiple cities around the country that aren't New York City. The first two episodes are Asheville and then Miami. And there's two queer people and then two straight cis women. And they all get on a dating app. They don't tell you which one. And they match with a bunch of

people in the area and you see them go on dates in these areas and it is so wild and it's shot documentary style so these are like real people that they talk into being filmed on their dates and it just it's glorious and what's amazing that's already happening is these four strangers are strangers to each other and you see their friendship really becoming solidified around this experience as they keep moving from city to city and the dates that they're going on you see people fall in love with them and they're like well girl I got six more cities so maybe you'll make it I was about to say it's a

Because what would be the best case scenario? Like a long distance relationship with someone you've been on one date with? Well, that's what they start beginning. You see that kind of hints of it. They're texting people in the old city. So it's interesting and I've never seen anything like it. It's a really great way of reimagining the documentary format. So much of relationships are just about time and proximity.

Do you think any of them will just fall in love with each other? Not fall in love, but you know what I mean? Well, they do seem more obsessed. They even make jokes. Like, I know at the end of this, I have best friends. I don't know if I'm going to have a husband. But I will say there is a surprise appearance from a very famous porn star in episode two. As one of the people they date? The gay guy goes on a date with Diego Sanchez. Do you know Diego Sanchez, the porn star? Yes, I do. You know his face. I do.

His government name is Luis. I was like, wait, wait, wait. Mentally, I was like, let me flip through the OnlyFans files. You were like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da

But this gay who's from New York acts like he doesn't know who he is. And I was like, this is a lie. So some of this is bullshit. The gay man on the show, least favorite character. I will say this. Which is sad because I would think I'd like him the most. But sadly, not so much. Do you think I would like this show?

I think you'll enjoy it. Because it's like not, Queer Ultimatum, which we will wait for Sam to get back because he's been watching it. Oh, Lord. Like that is crazy. Trial marriage is everything. Everything I hear about that show freaks me out. It is too much. This show is like, it's realistic. It shows them going on one date and then leaving town, which was my experience when I was single. You always go on a date with someone that's leaving.

There is something about the, I'm only in town for the weekend. Yep. That's when you fall in love. When you're like, wait, you're leaving me? Oh my God, I should marry you. And it never works out. Yeah, because is it just scarcity? Is it scarcity? Yeah, it's scarcity. It's also like your brain, I think, can process that there's an ending happening. So it has like a three-story structure. Beginning, middle, end. Yeah.

One of our producers is saying so true. I'm like, we've all been there. I guess that's also like the summer fling. Okay. I'm interested in this. Summer fling. I used to call them Sunday boyfriends. You go to brunch, you meet somebody. Sunday boyfriends? Sunday boyfriends. It's called...

You know, you don't go to brunch. You get a little too boozy. You spend a whole day with some stranger. And you're like, and then the day ends. I only brunch with friends. Look. Nice try. Telling myself before I was in a relationship. Sorry, Chicago.

Anyway, moving on. I needed that. I needed that laugh. Saeed, what are you watching this week? So usually, you know, I'm like doing like books that I think, you know, lead to like intellectual, you know, kind of growth or shows that are very comforting. Games are comforting. This is not comforting. It's Black Mirror.

Oh, anxiety-inducing. It's the new season of Black Mirror. I'm going to recommend the first three episodes. One, because they're about all I can handle, to be honest. Because the third one is very intense. You know, it's season six of Black Mirror. So however you've chosen to interact with that show, I would say trust those instincts. But the first episode is called Joan is Awful. I will just say, I don't want to spoil anything. It's very meta. It's so meta.

And it starts wild and it only gets wilder. I think it's pretty, and I will say if, if you don't like the scary disturbing episodes, this is like the fun episode of the season. So, you know, for our skater cats, you will definitely enjoy Jonas awful.

It stars Annie Murphy from Schitt's Creek, who says she was like, I'm a scaredy cat. So trust that if I'm in this, you're in good hands. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's not terrifying at all. Exactly. The second episode is called Lock Henry. It is about true crime, our relationship to true crime. And I would say the first two episodes, kind of what we were talking about with surveillance culture, you know, Bebe Rexha, the sense of

The way we can get so invested in the camera and being on screen that we maybe lose ourselves, lose each other, I think is really significant. And then the third episode is Beyond the Sea. It stars Aaron Paul, Kate Mara, and Josh Hartnett. I love Josh Hartnett. It is so good. I will just say it is a tragedy set in the 60s.

Look, if you can't handle an intense Black Mirror episode, this is not for you. But if you like tragedy as a form, as a dramatic structure, this is very well written. It's incredibly performed. And wow, your heart breaks by the end. It made me want to go reread classics by Euripides, honestly, by the end. Yeah.

Those first two are incredible. And what I think Black Mirror does really well as a show is that it presents within minutes the rules of the world that you're entering. It's your world, but it has a new set of rules. You know, in the first episode, it's about, I don't think this spoils anything, but a woman whose life becomes a show.

on a streamer. The how is kind of the craziness of it. And so it like feeds you this like kind of like futuristic how and you believe it. And then it tells you this really interesting story through that logic. And the second one with the astronauts, which Josh Hartnett and Aaron Paul, once you like

with this how, with this like kind of futuristic 1960s, then you're like, holy shit. And it is so heartbreaking and soulful and humanizing to a really terrible experience. And for listeners, if you've watched Beyond the Sea, know that Saeed is obsessed with it. I'm trying to read everything I can.

find about this episode. I just think it was, it's just incredible. I just think, and I'm really working to avoid spoilers, but the way in which you can really feel for everyone in an unprecedented situation and you just, you know, it's probably not going to work out great, but you don't know how I'm very moving. And so the reason I would say it gets my vibe right is that I realized there's something about Black Mirror where all of the episodes

You know, very different. But in the end, people are encased in crisis. They're encased in kind of trap circumstances. And it's such an intense and grossing moment. And then you turn off your television. You close your computer. And you look out. And your world, to me, is like a little bit more breathable.

You're like, whatever is going on out here with the orcas and the submarines and people throwing phones at Bebe Rexha. I'm like, look, it's still not as intense as what's going on to our girl Joan. Yeah, that's real tea. So I haven't finished Black Mirror yet. I'm on episodes six or five or whatever the last one is. But it's pretty good. But it gets a little horror-y after this.

Everything else becomes a bit scary. I like that, like a kind of descent into darkness. Yeah, descent into a lot of darkness. Episode, I think, four is pretty dark. It's about a ghost or kind of a haunting of sorts in many ways. I think I'm good. I think I'm good. We'll leave it there for now. Friends, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's your vibe? Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

All right. Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend or two. Huge thank you to our producer Chantel Holder, engineers Sam Keeper and Brendan Burns and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design.

And also, of course, a special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp, Brandisha, from Agenda Management and Production. He gets so mad. I can feel his cheeks go flush every time we say Brandisha. Makes me so happy.

It makes me happy too. And we want to hear from you as always. So don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram at adzackstaff, at theferocity and at samsanders. And also use the hashtag vibecheckpod wherever you can. And remember, we do have a mailbag episode. So use it to deploy your questions there if you'd like. And with that, stay tuned for another episode next week. Until then, bye. Stitcher.

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