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This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.
I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.
at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.
Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare. ♪
Konnichiwa, my sisters. Well, hello. Come on, Carmen Sandiego. Where in the world is the vibe? I love it. It's in Tokyo. Shinjuku Nikomei. Okay, okay. All right. On that international note, I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Safford, and you are listening to Vibe Check. This week, it's just a tea. Child, I know.
This is the moment. This is one of those episodes where it's like, I know, I know the true Vibe Check girls have been like, is it Wednesday yet? Is it time? And I want to say some of you, I did not know you listened to the show. There are friends of ours that are reporters at Variety, Hollywood reporters that were literally tweeting this week. Can't wait to check in on the vibes this week with Vibe Check. Just because they know that we will be messy about girls losing their jobs. Girls who deserve to lose their jobs, by the way.
and we will get into that. Remember that Lose Your Job song? Don't try, don't try.
So if you haven't picked up on it already, we are talking about Don Lemon losing his job at CNN and also Tucker Carlson being fired at Fox News. So we can't wait to get into that. And we're also going to be taking some letters, DMs of desperation from some of you this week because a lot of you are going through some heartbreak. You know, look, even if you aren't a white supremacist or a messy, messy black gay man in cable news in the case of Don Lemon, the girls need some advice.
I think it's a turbulent time and folks are a little lost out here. Very lost. We put the call out yesterday and we were flooded. A lot of y'all are going through it and a lot of y'all are lonely. It's real. It's real. Bless y'all all for sharing. We are so grateful for listeners who feel so open with us. But we'll take about two of those letters a bit later in the show. We will. So with that, how are we all doing before we jump into this teapot today? Saeed, how are you doing? Woo!
Oh, child. I mean, I'm so glad to see your faces and be talking with you. So this is the first that I've shared, but one, over the weekend, I was in L.A. I was at the Los Angeles Times Book Festival. I had a great time. I got to spend some time with Sam and our friend Tracy of the wonderful book podcast, The Stacks.
If you love books, if you love talking about them, we highly recommend listening to the Stacks podcast. But just before my plane landed in LA on Friday, I found out that Cesar had a medical emergency and needed to get a surgery, basically. And he's okay. He's doing okay. We just brought him home. Haas is here with me, too. And I'm so grateful for that. But yeah.
It was one of those weekends where, you know, crisis is always, it always throws you, right? You're never like, oh, yay. You know, a total terrifying situation is here. But it does, in those moments maybe of quiet among all the worry, you know, you are reminded, I think, of who shows up for you. And Sam in particular, you and your boyfriend Alex. And Tracy, right? I spent time in Sam's beautiful backyard. Y'all, by the way, now I get it.
Now I know why Sam never leaves home. I was like, honey, you got a whole garden situation back here. Your fire pit. Yeah. So, you know, it was like Sam making time to just like sit and we wouldn't even necessarily talk about what was going on with Caesar because I was so worried, you know, or going to dinner with Tracy. I just felt...
all of my friends in person on the phone. I just felt that me and Cesar were like circled by friends and warriors and I really appreciate it. I'm happy to do it. I was in awe of you the entire weekend because I knew what you were going through but I also saw you having to be the star of the book festival. Every event you went to, every room you walked into, you have to be on. There are people who love books and poetry who are there to see you
And you were engaged the entire weekend while dealing with a lot. So I stand in awe of you for that. But I'm also just glad that I got to be around you over this weekend and the support that we can offer to friends.
We're always happy and grateful to do it. It's a blessing for us as well. And let me tell you, this dog stuff is no joke because like on the one hand, you're like, well, it's not a human. But on the other hand, it's almost even deeper because the dog can't talk to you. You never really know what the dog is thinking. You just see their eyes. And then these vets hold pet owners hostage. Whatever amount they say, you're going to pay it. And it's like when they hit you with that first number, you're just like, wow. Yeah.
Yeah.
You're forced to make a lot of decisions really quickly to support your pet. And though none of us obviously are like doctors, physicians, or nurses, I think the other thing with pets, like you're saying, one, they can't communicate. So you're like, please just tell me what's wrong. But also it's like, you know, their bodies are totally different. So you don't even, it's like, I don't need, I've learned so much about the spinal column of weenie dogs. Yeah. This weekend, it was just out of my depth. And it's like-
We talk so much about ways to get our vibe right and the songs and the movies and the stuff. And all of that is great. But also this weekend, I was like, nothing. I'm getting emotional. That's okay. Yeah. Nothing can take the place of deep friendship. Nothing can take the place of the people who can allow you to be vulnerable and can sit with you or get on the phone and text you. And I knew that.
but I know it so much deeply, so much more deeply. So I'm just grateful. Yeah. We are grateful for you and for Caesar. Yeah. We are. We are. And I was out of town this weekend and when we found out I was already gone and one, I was already said that I was missing Saeed and then two, to know that Saeed was here and Caesar was dealing with this circumstance in Columbus just made my heart break. But I,
as a lady of the pod, was so happy that Sam was here and available. Like very much by your side. Sam showed up. Sam and all the ancestors. And I will say, and you know, look, this is hard. You know I've been through a weekend because of what I'm about to say. Los Angeles was lovely this weekend. The weather was great. He's really in distress, y'all. I had some great meals. He was in distress.
Is this Saeed Jones? And y'all were right. Y'all must have gotten a lot of rains because I was like, damn, even on the highway, the flowers were incredible. It's green. It's green. Zach, were you in New Orleans? I was in New Orleans. I snuck away. And you know what I kept hearing about was that Saeed Jones, one, loves New Orleans, and two, Baldwin & Co. bookstore is where Saeed Jones goes from people in New Orleans. Wow. So...
I was there. I was there for a quick weekend away. It was Craig, my boyfriend's birthday, and he'd never been to New Orleans. So we went to New Orleans for a quick trip. And I now want to go to the Betty Ford Center after that trip because I just feel like I'm sweating alcohol. Jesus is not the only one who needs to heal now.
No, I need healing. I need like some hands to relate upon me. That's called a rehab. It's just like you just drink all day and you can walk and drink, which I really love. Like I love a walk and I love a cocktail to be able to do both at once. It's amazing. And you also just, you compare New Orleans to LA. LA is like that girl with the green juice, the salad, etc., etc.,
New Orleans? No, you're having a po' boy. You're having fried chicken. You're just drinking. You're drinking all the time. So it was really lovely. I love New Orleans. But it made me think of Saeed so much there because you had just been there. And I began navigating the city through your recommendations. So it's funny. I was like a fan of the show in real time. And people with me were also like, isn't that what Saeed talked about? I was like, yeah, y'all really be listening to the show. It's one of my favorite cities.
in the US because you are in the United States, but you're really in New Orleans. I think Miami is kind of like that. You know, cities that because of their history and it has everything to do with race, ethnicity, immigration, there's a lot, you know, like these port cities that are just, they're a part of our country and I'm so proud of that, but also they are a part of themselves and New Orleans is very much like that. Yeah. Sam, how are you doing today?
You know, I'm good. I was thinking hanging out this weekend with Saeed and Tracy. And, you know, this was like after a week of having some of my friends in town. My boyfriend had some friends in town that stayed with us. And I'm just really grateful and happy that I can be around my people in person. It's been like a good week and a half of just my people around me.
And, you know, I think I've mentioned this before, feeling like we're finally beginning to reemerge from pandemic life in this year. It's felt really clear to me these last two weeks. The weather's better. I'm seeing my friends IRL and I'm just grateful. I'm really grateful. I think there are a lot of people who were really knocked down by the pandemic and are still having a hard time getting back up. And when I think of my circles and myself and the people I love, I'm
we're generally doing okay. Not counting the emergency dog surgeries, but I'm even sure about that. That dog's going to be okay. I believe it. But I'm just grateful that like my tribe is still there and we can still gather. So that's what I'm feeling. I'm just so grateful for my people. I mean, to that point, two things. One,
And I was so excited to tell Zach about this. It was my first time getting to go to Sam's house and then meet the dogs and all the beautiful home. He saw where I record. But I was in that house within three minutes and Sam was showing me bottles of Ensure. I was like, damn, girl. I have a drawer in my room for my Insures. Oh.
True to himself. He is such an old lady. I'm is who I'm is. Well, before we get into the rest of the episode, because I know y'all are like, come on, girls, get into the tea. We want to also thank you for sending your fan mail. And you're right. I mean, especially this week with the advice questions, we were getting texts, DMs, Instagram messages, and emails. You can always keep it coming at vibechatxstitcher.com.
And we also want to mention that we have a special Met Gala episode. Gala, not gala. We all learned the hard way. Episode coming out next Tuesday morning. That is May 2nd. So watch out or listen out for that. You get two days in a row. Yeah, look out. Vibe check, vibe check. I kind of want to call it gala. Gay.
Gala. You get it. You get it. But don't say that in front of a fashion industry person. Oh, really? Oh, my God. They're like, it's gala. Like, okay, I too watched Ocean's 8. You ain't slick. Anyway, y'all ready to jump in? Let's jump in. Yes.
All right. First, we are going to talk about the big news of the week concerning cable news. We've already addressed this, talked about it briefly, but two of the biggest stars on two of the biggest networks in news lost their jobs this week. Tucker Carlson over at Fox and Don Lemon at CNN. Besides trying to talk through the sound of rejoicing, you hear all across large swaths of America saying,
I want us to talk about what all this feels like and what it means. I got to start by asking, were either of you surprised by either departure? I got to say I was. Oh, yeah. Gob smacked. I got to tell you, I mean, I was in line. I was like taking off my shoes, still holding on to my phone.
The Tucker Carlson news had came, and then I saw Don Lemon. And I feel like we were as shook as they were because as we now know, Tucker Carlson was informed of his firing. That's what it was. He was informed just 10 minutes before that news went public. And then I don't even know what kind of device Don Lemon used to type his little message, but it was very clear that he had only found, I think, from his agent. Yeah, girl. I was like, is this from a PowerPoint?
PowerPoint? Yeah. Don Lemon said that he found out from his agent and didn't get a face-to-face call with CNN brass, although CNN denies that claim. They said no. Yeah. And then Tucker was told Monday morning, and in the announcement, they said, and his last show was last Friday. Whoop!
There will be no on-air sign-off. That's when I was shook. Yeah. So with Tucker Carlson, because, I mean, there's so much to get into. My first thought when I saw it, because it was like parting ways with Fox News. He is so influential. He is arguably the...
he's the toxic, but he's also the cable news host, right? Of this era. So my first panic thought was, Oh no, he's planned this all along. Is he about to announce a run for office? But I think when I realized that it was like goodbye and you're not going to do a farewell episode, that was my beginning to realize, Oh, this might be messy. He got sacked. He got sacked. I want to talk about that briefly. You know why these two men were fired and,
Seems a little simpler to understand with Don, but the tucker of it all is kind of interesting. So we've been seeing the headlines for weeks now that there was this very big settlement between Fox News and Dominion voting systems. Dominion sued Fox for defamation because Fox claimed that Dominion was part of election fraud that cost Trump the election in 2020.
Carlson was a big part of that lawsuit because text and emails from him were all shown to the public during this investigation. And you find out Tucker hates Donald Trump and thinks he's stupid, and he hates his Fox bosses. So a lot of folks were thinking, well, that's probably why he got fired, right? The executives found out about all these mean and nasty things he was saying about us behind our backs. But...
Media reporters in the know were saying as soon as Tucker was fired that the real reason might be because of allegations of a toxic and sexualized workplace at his show.
So there's a lot of reports about this, but one of his former producers filed a lawsuit in New York accusing Carlson and Fox of sexism and harassment. Apparently, in the part of the building where Tucker makes his show, he had hung up a mocked-up photo of Nancy Pelosi in a bathing suit revealing cleavage. What?
And then they would do things on the show sometimes where they would poll staffers about which female candidate for Michigan governor they most wanted to have sex with. That was the kind of environment that Tucker was creating. So many people say, actually, it was about that.
It wasn't about the other stuff. And actually, I was listening to David Falkenflik speaking on NPR yesterday as he was parsing these examples. I didn't realize it was like a poster of Nancy Pelosi. Yeah, that is. But even as he was talking about it, he was like, also, I have to step aside personally and say, I've been doing reporting around Tucker. Like, you know, just we're both in the same place at the same time. And David Falkenflik said, I can think of an experience where in front of me, he used a sexist term for women that starts with the letter C.
several times unapologetically. And David was like, I turned around and was like, what are you doing? You do not talk like that. And he was like, what? I'm right, though, was Tucker's reaction. So it's clear there was an extensive pattern of sexism and misogyny. And we'll recall what finally took out Bill O'Reilly were harassment allegations. Damn, you know so much has happened. I can't even remember what happened to Bill O'Reilly. Bill O'Reilly was leaving voicemails for staffers, basically asking them for sex. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And also, like, just, like, being very brutal on set, using sexist language on set, screaming at people, all that. Just hostile work environment. All of it. They're all a bunch of monsters. You know, masculinity is a sickness and these men are very, very sick. Well, what I find so interesting, and I want to talk about this for a second, what does this say about Fox News? So, they,
are not going to be actually held accountable on the air after this big lawsuit. They settled with this voting company, but they never have to say that they were lying. And it seems like they're prepared to settle again in the future for lying on the air. But they will take action when the workplace gets a little too sexist.
So it's interesting. On the one hand, I'm always happy that a company gets rid of bad behavior like that. But there's other bad behavior that they're still okay with, it seems. Yeah, and I think this is true in a similar way, actually, with Don Lemon as well. Watching people, understandably, I mean, we all were wrapped. Everyone was trying to figure out what was going on. Is it because of the lawsuit? Is it because of the other lawsuit? Is it because of, you know, I think...
I think instead of thinking of this as like we're going to find the single line item that explains what happened to Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon, think of it as a not.
It's a constellation of issues. It's not any one thing. And I think with Tucker, because again, he's so powerful. He's bringing in so many viewers every night and all that kind of stuff. It's hard for us to even fathom the scale of his reach at 8 p.m. on Fox News. But then also it's like if you're coming from the perspective of someone like Rupert Murdoch,
It's like every time you check your phone in the last two weeks, there's another issue, whether it's this lawsuit around misogyny, whether it's the settlement and all the money that that's going to cost. And you were finding out he's texting and talking about you personally behind your back. I can see how all of that catches up. Yes. Well, and if you're Fox News, you know that he's actually replaceable. Before Tucker Carlson, there was Bill O'Reilly.
Before Bill O'Reilly, I think it was Glenn Beck. They'll find another star. They can do that. Zach, what do you think about this? It's a few things. And I think both CNN and Fox are trying to play the same game, but it will end very differently for both of them. Fox is by itself in a class of itself. There aren't a lot of conservative news channels that have its dominance and its viewership and its ratings and all these things.
Rupert Murdoch owns a lot of things. News Corp is very powerful and he can build anew because he owns the New York Post. He owns a lot of papers globally. He can make a new star. Where CNN is not as well-footed right now. Their profits are down. They're not doing well. Don Lemon wasn't even doing well
on that morning show while also being sexist and an asshole. He has been in controversy for years. People do not like that man. Like, it was just a matter of time before the other shoe fell. And they've also lost, you know, Chris Cuomo and so many other people. So CNN is definitely going through a huge identity crisis and trying to find their new footing. They're launching that new show with Gayle King and Charles Barkley. What's it called? King Charles. King Charles. Woo boy. It's not a new show. I don't want to see it.
Yeah, they're about to launch all those non-news shows just to save themselves. But I think they're in big, big trouble. And Don Lemon is also in big trouble. I don't know if Don can, like, launch his own media company. Tucker Carlson can. And let's talk about our sister, Don. So let's go to the reason why he's gone. Yeah, so...
First, we've got to point out, for those who don't remember, what's believed to be one of the final straws for Don. Back in February on the air, they were talking about Nikki Haley, who had just announced her run for president in 2024. And Don Lemon said, on the air, next to a woman.
Nikki Haley as a candidate was past her prime as a woman because she's 51. Isn't that even younger than Don himself? He's 57 years old. Oh my goodness. And let me tell you, that man is obsessed with looking young and being young at all times. Some nerve, sir. So yeah, so the Nikki Haley comments happened. His co-hosts were
clearly upset and frustrated and many, many viewers were. That led to a deeply reported, and if y'all, we can put it in the show notes if you haven't read the story, from Variety. The title is Don Lemon's Misogyny at CNN Exposed, which showed really like a decade-long pattern. But also, I
I want to remind people, I've never really seen it for Don Lemon, and I'll be honest. After Trayvon Martin was killed, was murdered in Florida, Don Lemon aired an advice segment titled, quote, Black People Clean Up Your Act. And with some of his advice, presumably to prevent murder such as George Zimmerman shooting a teenage black kid, was to pull up your pants.
Finish high school. Stop littering your neighborhood. Stop having babies out of wedlock. Another example, when interviewing – and this, I believe, was in 2014 – Joan Tarshis, one of the many women who bravely came forward to accuse Bill Cosby of sexual harassment and assault. During the interview, Don Lemon asked her why she didn't –
essentially fight him off. Why did she didn't quote gnaw her way out of danger? I mean, you remember and Ferguson as well, you know, he commented and it seems like there are a lot of people here smoking weed or marijuana with Don Lemon. Again, I think it's a tight knot. I understand that last interview he did, he confronted, you know, a really shitty racist politician who was saying incredibly anti-black things. I think it's broke clocks are right. Yeah.
Twice a day.
We'll forget, like, after he talked about it and said all the governors on the southern border should arm their states, Governor Abbott did it. He sent troops to the border after Tucker Carlson said to do it. After Tucker Carlson was making fun of Martha's Vineyard, Ron DeSantis sent immigrants to Martha's Vineyard.
During the January 6th investigations, Kevin McCarthy, now Speaker of the House, secretly sent Tucker Carlson hundreds of hours of insurrection video that Tucker then doctored and put on his own air to make it seem as if that insurrection was a picnic.
Whether or not Tucker Carlson is there, we need to constantly watch the connection between Fox News and the GOP. It is a direct pipeline, and if that pipeline's not cut off, the problem's still there. Don't matter if it's named Tucker or Gretchen or whoever.
And a great example of this, if you all want to see what happens next, potentially in the chapter of Tucker Carlson, is looking at Alex Jones' career. Tucker Carlson was borrowing from Alex Jones and Infowars heavily to create Tucker Carlson's show. And now he could have a future just like him, building his own very muscular media arm that will do damage to so many lives like we've seen with Alex Jones. And even personally, people in my life know this, Tucker Carlson's come after me in the past and it's resulted in death threats and security issues at my job. So, you know,
Sam is right. Tucker Carlson is a problem, but it's that media apparatus of Fox News where they've really stoked paranoia in this audience and they deploy that fear to change legislation, to change law, all this stuff all the time. And the great show to watch is Succession, which shows you the interiority of that apparatus. And I know we need to move on, but I think this is incredibly important for Don Lemon and for the rest of us.
Just because you're not a white supremacist does not mean you're not an asshole. Does not mean you will not be held to account for your own toxicity. It is not enough to be able to say, well, at least I'm not them. That's not how it works. That's not the world I want to live in. And then beyond this, and this is a whole other conversation that I would love the three of us to have. But as three black gay men, I think it's really important for us to say loud-voiced,
Sexism is sexism. Misogyny has no place in the vibe I'm trying to create. Just because I am a black gay man in a white supremacist country, I do not believe I am entitled by or freed by letting off steam by being a sexist or transphobic jerk. And we really need to interrogate that shit. Hell yes. It's a good note to end on. It's time for a quick break. Stay tuned. More Vibe Check after the break.
This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands. I
I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors
at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.
Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.
All right, welcome back, my loves. We are going to switch gears, or are we? I feel like this is, this episode is the come to your three mothers and let us tell you about yourself. I could always tell when Saeed is ready. Listeners, you can't say this, but like when Saeed is getting geared up, he runs his hand through his hair to the side.
I do play with my hair as I'm processing. I was like, you know what? Well, we are going to change gears. And it's been a minute since we've done this. But yeah, we decided to maybe give some advice. And so y'all sent in a lot of questions.
The first one is actually from several people, but as it turns out, and maybe it's summer's coming up, people are thinking about being single. And so these are from two different people, but I thought we'd start here. One person asked, any advice for people out here who are really tired of being single?
And this is a little different. Is there an age at which it's appropriate to settle for a partner so you don't die alone? I guess to get us started, because I think the second question is actually pretty easy. No.
No, there's no need for anyone to settle. Age, I really believe, is one bit of data. It's more about how you feel, how your relationship to life, to joy, to curiosity. I don't think you need a partner at any age. Do y'all? No. Well, a lot of times when I see people saying, I need a partner, I need a partner, what they're really saying is, I need community. I need community.
I need friends I can trust and rely on. I need people and places and things that are part of my weekly daily routine. So ask yourself what you really want and be specific and write it down. Do you want a man or woman in your house all day, every day? Or do you want a hobby? Do you want to join a social club? Do you want to volunteer and mentor to build a community? I think that's the first thing to really ask yourself. You know, when we're lonely, a lot of times we think the only fix is a romantic partner, right?
The fix for loneliness is other people, and that can come in any number of ways. I made a very pointed effort as we emerged from pandemic to start to build in time in my life to do the things that I missed doing with other people that weren't my job.
I did not want to have a life where it was like my only life was my work friends or a partner. I play my saxophone again now. I've been taking saxophone lessons. I jam out with friends. I've built a community there. I have other friends who have joined running clubs. I have other friends who have hobbies that bring them in touch with other people, like knitting or crocheting or whatever. I think sometimes that's really what you want, right?
And it's okay if you build a life around that and not around a romantic partner. I also think when anyone says, will I die alone? You could have a partner and kids and still die. And you'll be alone. You can have eight kids who might not take care of you when you're old. Yeah.
And let me tell you this, you have the wrong people around you, you'll feel even more alone while being crowded in a house with someone. Like you really need to do that soul work that you're talking about, Sam, of really communicating to yourself what is it exactly you need and seeing everywhere else it shows up. Because, you know, all of us have
partners on this show, but I would say that none of our partners are everything for all of us. Yeah, and they can't be. And they can't be. That's too much to put on one person, but you know, Craig does so much for me, but I also get so much from my best friends, from my family, my mom, all these people, and it's kind of a kaleidoscope of people. Then to push, because people are like, yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah.
But let's say someone is single and does have a robust, rich circle. And the three of us have all been in the situations where we have great friendships and maybe even great family relationships. Let's say you've got all that going on too, but you're like, and I do want a romantic relationship. Do you have any thoughts for what to do when you're just like, yeah, I specifically want a romantic relationship?
I think like a lot of times, and this gets back to the whole, you know, lowering your expectations or settling thing that comes up a lot. I think we got to reframe that thinking, right?
And what I have tried to be really intentional about in my relationship, which is going strong, you got to ask yourself, like, how much can anyone ever expect of one person? And how much is fair to expect from one person? I think the fantasy of Western love and forever relationships tells us that our partner should be our best friend, our financial partner, help us raise kids together. We should all have the same interests and want the same things all the time. No one person can do all of those things for you.
And so don't think about it as settling when you say yes to a person who can't be all of those things. Just say, no one can do that. And I can build those parts of my life that I need through other relationships.
Okay. Any last thoughts on this one, Zach? Last thoughts on this. I'll give you some like as an ex-dating app executive at Grindr is what I learned so much about dating and love for people. And what I've allowed to play in my own life is that you have to always allow surprise to show up in your life, especially with love and romance. All of us, to what Sam's pointing to, have this script we think we're supposed to be following, this path we're supposed to be going towards.
That's supposed to check off boxes that tell you that you're in love and in a good love. And we see that with dating apps like Hinge and Tinder. Not as great at dating all the time because you have a really preconceived notion of what you're expecting out of someone. There's a script they've built. There's a profile they've built. All these things. Grindr is really productive because you get on, you have really low expectations, and someone can surprise you. And you can really be open to a lot. So I think if the current scripts you're following in your life, the current path you're walking down, try a new one. Surprise yourself. Take the left when you usually take the right. Do something different on your side and difference will show up for you, I think. I like that.
And let go of rom-coms. They put forth a truly harmful version of romantic love. I don't think you would take relationship advice from fairy tales either. There you go. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so next question. Let me set this up. Let's say you have a great...
Longtime friend, right? And y'all talk about a lot of things, a lot of exchange. Let's say that there is a particular dynamic in their life. Let's say it's a job. Let's say it's a relationship. Let's say whatever it is. And let's say this has been going on for maybe even more than a year. What do you do when you've gotten to the point where you feel like
You've heard, we've had a lot of sessions. We've gone out and have fun. We've had the cry session. We've had the distraction session. And you begin to feel like you're hearing the same issue over and over, or you're like repeating the same advice over and over. You know, that moment where, and this can happen with close friends where you're like, honey, you're stuck in a loop. And now I'm stuck in the loop with you. And as Sam was kind of just saying, at some point you got to step out and I can't make you do that. Do you have thoughts about how to,
you know, it's someone you care about, compassionately kind of signal, hey. I had this moment with a loved one a few weeks ago where I felt like they were in a loop around a thing and they kept talking to me about it. And I'd given them my advice like twice. Finally, I said, stop, hold on. You're grown and you're going to do what you want to do. You've heard my advice. I think we're done with this. And there have been several times in my adult life where I've said to people who I love, you're grown and you're going to do what you want to do.
And sometimes just saying that with a straight face shuts them the hell up. People are grown. So try that. Look them in the eyes and say, you're grown and you're going to do what you want to do. That'll shut them up. All right. And then the other side of that is you ask this person, if they're telling you a story that you've heard a bunch, you say to them, what do you want me to say about?
You've said this a bunch before. What are you looking for? Are you looking for advice or are you just looking for a safe space to say the story over and over again? And whatever answer that is, if it is like I do need you to solve it and you do give advice and they don't take it, you just start pointing that out. Like, listen, hey girl, I gave you advice last week. You didn't listen to it. You did what you thought. And like, I'm going to stop answering. And I know that can be hard to say, but I think just like listen to your body. If you find yourself like tensing and like shutting down, say that to the front. Hey, I've heard this story a bunch. I love you.
But like you say it a lot, I'm just not able to engage right now. So just boundary setting is really good. And also telling people you don't want to talk about it. Sorry. And just keeping on because it is a relationship. You know, it's two ways. Yeah. I guess the two things I would say what's really important with this type of issue, and it will come up, is you've got to be a good friend. You
You know what I mean? Like, like to me, in order for this kind of interaction to be productive and clarifying, you have to have a good friendship beyond whatever is going on with this one dynamic. Do you consistently show up for them? You know what I mean? Like you can't be like a middling friend and then try to be like, you're grown, you know, like that's not going to work out. So hopefully you, you know, and I think only you know that.
It may not even be friendship. This could be a work dynamic. But it's like, do you have a good, healthy kind of dynamic with this person that will allow you to have that? And then the second thing, I guess what I would say is I like to self-narrate. So I'll go, you know what? Can I be honest?
I feel like we're in a loop. Are we in a loop? Do you feel like we're in a loop? Yeah. Sight is good with this. Sight is always more aggressive with this. Not an accusation. And maybe they go, no, it's different. Or, you know what? That's a good point. Why do you feel that way? But it's kind of a non-aggressive way of still kind of being like, I need to send up a signal flare.
Because once I get fed up, I'm blunt. But no, that is a nice way to take care of it. You are very blunt. I would say that we're all showing you that if you do have multiple friends or people in your life, that each person can provide a different way to deal with something. That's a good point. Each of the three of us would probably say it in a different way. Sam is who you go, if you want a very decisive kind of thing, Sam Sanders. If you want diplomacy, you come to me and I'll tell you how to play a game. And Saeed Jones is going to be the one that's giving you that motherly love. I'm like, girl, I think we're going to do, let's go on. I think we're lost, girl.
girl. Also, a very good thing someone told me recently about advice with adults was a simple thing. She said, most people don't actually want advice. They want affirmation. So just keep that in mind. Period. That's so true. Well, we'll leave it there for now, but we're really excited if you enjoyed this advice type segment. First of all, know that you can always email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.
And, you know, as the podcast continues to grow and develop, we'll keep an eye out for those questions and maybe do other segments like this. But also, very soon, we're excited to share, we are going to be guests on Dear Prudence. We are longtime fans of Dear Prudence. So look out for that. That'll be really fun. This is Slate's advice column, which also has a podcast. Yeah, it's wonderful. I'm very nosy, too, so I love reading the letters. But we're going to take another break, and we'll be right back.
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All right, we are back. And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right or throwing us off this week. But I think all of ours are like vibe stabilizers. So let's get started.
So to begin, I'd love to tell everyone that if you're bored and looking for something new to watch, definitely watch Shrinking on Apple Plus with Jason Segel and Harrison Ford. Definitely watch it if you enjoyed our last segment about advice and therapy because the whole show is about therapists. And one of them, Jason Segel, begins telling his clients exactly what he thinks they should hear, not like bullshit.
So it's really fun to watch a therapist. He was like, I love the vibe check and Sam Sanders lit something up in me. He said, you grow and you go do what you want to do. He literally does that to Sam in an episode. He's just like, no, this is bullshit. Do this. And he literally tells, this is the first episode, he tells a woman to leave her husband, which therapists never do.
It's really interesting. So if you're in therapy, you're interested in advice, watch this show. It's really wonderful and it's that good old Apple content, which there's never a true villain. Everyone's kind of complicated and everything's still lovely. And it's set in the Pasadena, California. Oh, beautiful. Okay. What about you, Sam? What are you vibing with? I was blessed this weekend to hang out with two of my favorite book people in the flesh.
Hung with Saeed and our friend Tracy, who hosts the Stacks podcast all about books. And she was raving about this book by Matthew Desmond called Poverty by America. A lot of you might know Matthew Desmond from his previous book all about eviction called Evicted. It was a big deal. He's also a previous MacArthur Genius Grant winner. But his new book basically asks a very simple question.
If America is the richest country in the world, why are so many Americans literally in poverty? And he doesn't just seek to answer the question. He seeks to implicate all of us in this process.
He says that if we aren't poor and we are benefiting in America right now, we are part of the problem. And part of that poverty is on us too. So I started reading it last night and I can't put it down. I think Saeed's reading it too. It's good and worth their time. And this is why, again, the Stacks podcast by Tracy, we recommend it because I bought a book on the way home and I started reading Poverty by America as well. And yeah, his thesis is brilliant because he says too often –
about poverty just focuses on evoking poverty, like a documentary and you just spend time and it's like, yeah, you do need to understand and have some appreciation of how the poor lives. But people in this country aren't poor because they're poor. They're poor because of rich people.
They're poor because of the institutions, right? And so it's like this displacement. And I just got to a section where he shows with TANF funds, something we've talked about with the state of Mississippi and Brett Farr, for example. And Sam did a great job of showing how the Clinton administration made it so states get to decide how they spend those TANF funds. And so it's like a lot of the money that's supposed to be helping poor people in this country literally doesn't reach the people. Instead, it's being spent on literally anything else.
Oh, yeah. Good book. Good book. That's interesting. Slay, what about you? Yeah, yeah. So my recommendation is a song. It's from a Broadway show that I know nothing about. You're a Broadway girly? I would like to say I'm Broadway adjacent. Okay. But it's a Broadway show called Shucked. I believe it involves corn and a lot of corn ones. I don't even care. Look, my recommendation is none of the show. I hope it's good. But here's the tea. I love...
Alex Newell. Okay. Alex Newell is the truth. They, them pronouns, they are such an incredible performer. I fell in love with them because of their performance in the show Once on This Island, which is the only Broadway show I've gone to see twice. And so when I found out that Alex had a song and a role in this new show, I like looked it up. It's on Spotify. It's streaming. You can listen to it now. The song is called Independently Owned. I'm independently owned.
The writers know Alex Newell. They know what time it is. They were like, we're going to give Alex a song that lets Alex belt and growl and just do all the wonderful. And it's great. So literally, I know nothing about this show, but listening to that song, it's stunning.
And actually, to go to our advice column, it's about someone who's like, I'm independent. I don't need another person. Like, I'm good. My life is fulfilled and rich. And if someone wants to come and adore me and support me, that's great. But until then, I'm vibing, you know?
I so thought you recommended this. Shucked, for those who are interested, Shucked is a show about corn. Is it good? It's a great show. It's a town called, I think, Cop County and all the corn starts dying. And the character has to go to Tampa Bay to kind of figure out what's happening to the corn and get help to save the town. So it's a climate...
Labor, poverty, food, all these things. But Alex Newell originated the role, and that's why it's so great. Alex was literally front of mind through the whole process. Oh, okay. It's so great. And it feels like very Sagittarius and very Psy to be like, I have no idea what the show's about, but I do like this one. This song is great.
I love it. I love it. That's my recommendation. But you can go see it on Broadway and the Tony nominations are coming out soon and Alex Newell will probably be nominated. Her? And be one of the first black non-binary people to be nominated. I mean, if this song is any indication, and you know, Alex Newell is just an incredible queer black performer and it's really good to see someone getting roles that it seems like are written for them. You know what I mean? Like not a little bit part or anything, but like, no, here, you are brilliant and you deserve like to really be in the spotlight. So yeah. Yeah.
truly and was on Glee if you're like why does that name sound familiar Alex Newell I try to forget but yes I'm sure Alex does too I mean that we should have Alex Newell to talk about that time we should have a Glee episode because that show was such a mess anywho anywho well hey hey alright so listeners what are y'all feeling this week or not feeling let us know as always by checking in with us at vibecheck at stitcher.com
That's the show. Corn and all, tea and all, gossip and all. Thank you for listening to this week's episode. And if you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend and also write a review. Those help too, according to the algorithm gods.
And tell your friends in real life, when you're at brunch this weekend over that second or third or eighth mimosa, ask them to listen to Vibe Check. It'll work. Trust me. Also, a huge thank to our producers, Chantel Holder, engineer Brendan Burns, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also, special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production.
And we want to hear from y'all. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram at Zach Staff, The Ferocity, and at Sam Sanders. And we love when people use the hashtag vibecheckpod on Twitter. We're still there for now. You know, it's kind of weird. I think so little now. It's a mess. At peak, I look, I look. But yeah. It's just depressing now. And stay tuned for another episode next week. Bye. Bye. Bye.
Stitcher.
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