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Hey y'all, Zach Stafford here, and this week my sisters and I are taking the week off for the holidays and we pre-recorded this episode you're about to hear. But sadly, when we made this episode, we could not have planned for what we all woke up to this past Sunday morning when news broke that five people were killed and 18 people were injured at Club Q in Colorado Springs.

I can speak for all of us here at Vibe Check and not only say that we are mourning our queer siblings, but also say that this violence is a direct response to the continued attacks being waged by the GOP and far-right activists who do not see LGBTQ people as people, period. We will be back next week and we'll be diving deeper into what happened in Colorado, what led to it, and how we can all move forward.

But until then, we wanted to make sure you heard from us directly and knew that we love you, we are here for you, and we are fighting for you because you deserve to be here. Now, I'd like to invite my sister, Saeed, to share some words before we get on with our special mailbag episode where we answer your questions.

I wrote this poem over a year ago. It's dedicated to the victims and survivors and the community of Pulse Nightclub in Florida. And it knocks the wind out of me that here we are thinking again of victims, survivors, and community, in this case, Colorado Springs and the Club Q. This is for them. Alive at the end of the world. The end of the world was a nightclub.

Drag queens with machetes and rhinestone machine guns guarded the red and impassable door on Friday nights. Just to look at the crowd, all dressed up and swaying outside, made people want to yell the truth about themselves to anyone who'd listen. But no one heard. The end of the world was loud. The end of the world leaked music like radiation.

And we loved the neon echo, even though it taunted us. Or maybe because it taunted us. Kids leaning out of windows hours after bedtime. Cab drivers debating fares at the curb just for an excuse to linger. Pastors who'd pause at the corner and vow that if they ever got inside, they'd burn it all down.

Sup, girls? Sup? I'm not gonna sit up. You know, no hello ladies. Sup, girls? Yeah, what was that? Wait a minute. You didn't change it up. It's because Sam's going home, maybe. Are you going home? I am going to Texas. I gotta get on my Texas voice. Serving a little tea of internalized homophobia for the holidays. Hey, cowgirls. What's up? Anywho, I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Zach Stafford. I'm Saeed Jones, and you are listening to Vibe Check.

First of all, happy Thanksgiving. If I'm being truthful, my favorite holiday, just because it's the easiest, you just show up and eat. I love this week. I ain't buying nobody any presents. I'm bringing up a con pie and saying thank you. It is one of my favorite holidays. It's about food. It's about coming together. And there's so many ways you can

do it. You know what I mean? So it just feels very accessible. And you can choose your own family for this holiday. Yeah. That's what I was going to ask. Do y'all prefer a Friendsgiving or a family? Friendsgiving without question. Friendsgiving without question. I agree. I agree. I think Friendsgiving, like I love my family and I invite my family to certain Friendsgivings, but I think like, you know, Thanksgiving is about like creating your own family. Like I would have a Thanksgiving with y'all and invite my family to it. That would be fun.

I was so into family Thanksgiving as a kid because our biological family and our church family like bled together. And so like half of my church friends, they were like my cousins. And we would have these kind of omnibus Thanksgivings where multiple families got together and that was some good eating, you know? But as soon as family Thanksgiving became, oh, Sam, you got to start cooking, you know, because mom's getting up there. I was like, I don't know about this.

So when I do family Thanksgiving now, I just go pick up barbecue. But this year I'm doing my partner's family for Thanksgiving. And that's just set it and forget it. I just show up and smile, baby. It's going to be great. Just be cute and be present. I love that. Speaking of giving thanks, we are so thankful for our listeners. And as promised, we are going to have a very special episode this week.

It's a mailbag episode, a listener letter episode. We are taking questions from listeners of Vibe Check, and we're going to answer a few of them. I do got to ask, though, before we do that, in the spirit of Thanksgiving, what are y'all, pop culture-wise, this far into the year, most grateful for? Cate Blanchett. You're still, okay. I saw Tar. I saw Tar. She did the work.

She did the work. She did the work. She did the work. Yeah. I think Kate Blanchett and also in general that smaller budget, more indie oriented films continue to do well and inspire. So Tar, Everything Everywhere All at Once, like that makes me excited because I think those are kind of more art house films are so special and like not so commercially oriented. And when they become commercial successes, great. Love that. Yeah. Yeah. Saeed? I just feel like Beyonce would be like,

Easy answer. Maybe Paramore. You know, it's on them at that time of year where I'm listening to moody music. I'm listening to Jameela Woods. I'm listening to her. I mean, I'm always listening to Jasmine Sullivan. You know, I think in terms of pop culture, I just feel like we're in this era. There's just like a lot of noise. Yeah.

There's a lot of chatter. And I think when I think about the music, I really gravitate toward people who carve out space for themselves, the intimacy of the moment. And so when I think about a singer like Jasmine Sullivan or Jameela Woods or OGI, the singer you introduced us to earlier this year that I love, God, that song Envy, I could listen to it on repeat for hours. I just love it. It's like the world falls away and I just love artists who can kind of create that

Privacy. It's funny. It's like people online talk about like main character syndrome. This is almost the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. What about you? This year, I'm most grateful for Quinta Brunson. I mean, we all know at this point that we love Abbott Elementary, but I'm so impressed at the business success that that show is. It's a hit on streaming and on network.

It airs on terrestrial TV, on ABC once a week, and the numbers are good there and the numbers are good streaming. She's making a business case in this era of streaming that is impressive regardless of who's making it. But to see a black woman do this so forcefully and successfully in an industry that usually treats black women so poorly, my hat off to you, Quinta. Yeah.

I love that. She made a hit in multiple platforms. What I love is you can tell if someone's actually watched it or not. Anytime a black woman is in charge, you start seeing that, oh, it's kind of overrated. Oh, I don't know. And I'm like, have you watched it? Because it's very clear what you watch is incredible. I love it. Yeah. She just represents kind of a flicker of hope for me in this era of streaming overload. Because we've talked about this. Everything.

Everything feels mid. There's too much to watch. I feel lost at sea in the ocean of streaming. And Quinta, doing what she's done, gives me hope. Yep. I love that. I love that she has something to say. Well, before we get into our first question in this mailbag, again, we want to thank all of you for tweeting us, for DMing us. We also love it. I mean, it's a real delight to see what y'all are responding to. Someone was just cracking up in our tweets about Paramore and...

and me calling Hayley Williams my second favorite black singer. Of course, I love, you can tell, it's like we can hear it in the distance when one of you gets to the Snickers incidents. We just hear a scream off on the horizon. So I love it when y'all email and tweet us and let us know how we're lighting you up. Again, our email is vibecheckatstitcher.com. But let's get into some of these questions, girls, shall we? They're juicy. Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it. ♪

All right, let's kick this off with a question from Daniel S. Here's a clip. Hi, Sam, Saeed, and Zach. This is Daniel. First of all, I love the podcast. It is priority listening every week. My question for you is one of the things I love most about your podcast is not just the insightfulness and thoughtfulness of your conversations, but how obvious it is that the three of you are friends. And so I'm just curious how the three of you came to become friends.

I met Saeed Jones. I'm kind of like a bit of a bridge, but honestly, Sam and Saeed had their first segment without me involved. So I'm not a bridge. I'm just kind of like was friends with both of them. But I met Saeed years ago. I think our first email when I looked in my inbox, like 2013, 2014 or something, Saeed was creating a listserv for black gay writers to have a community called Another Country, referencing James Baldwin. And that's what we met on the internet. Went down in flames, by the way. Yeah.

That list learned a lot of lessons, and here we are, you know, almost a decade later. Yep, fully, fully. So that didn't go well, whatever. But it was a good, authentic sincere first start. I mean, look at us now. We got nothing. And then a few years later, we met in Chicago for the first time because Syed was doing some research for his book.

and had to come to International Mr. Leather, which is a big leather. I had so much fun. And you know what? None of that ended up in the memoir. Nope. There was supposed to be a whole chapter in how we fight for our lives set at the International Mr. Leather Festival and Convention. Really? But, you know, but, I would have read that chapter. We had a good,

We had a great time.

And then when I was coming back to L.A., our mutual friend Joanna introduced us. She said, I've been working with this guy, Zach, for this pilot for a potential NPR podcast. I love him. I think you will love him. I know y'all will hit it off. Trust me, y'all should meet. So I had just gotten back to L.A. I was crashing on Joanna's couch in her extra bedroom looking for a place. And she said, meet me downtown. We're going to hang out with Zach.

And I will never forget, we go into your apartment, your former apartment, this lovely loft right in downtown. And in that moment I said, "Look at this space, look at this loft, I love it. Fuck all my other plans. I too am gonna be a beautiful glamorous gay living the life in a downtown loft."

And I left her apartment and just started calling every phone number on every building. Like, I want to live here. I want to live here. I want to live here. And then I ended up living three or four blocks down from Zach for years. Yeah. It's true. Spending time in any of Zach's homes.

Oh my God. His personal spaces. Inspirational. You do leave me like, look at your life, look at your choices. We got to change. Got to make a change. I did somebody that does a similarity because I remember the moment Saeed knocked on my front door in Chicago. I lived in the West Loop and I opened the door and he goes, fuck you. And like, what? The damn MoMA. He had a whole like,

art, sculpture, installation in the middle of this living room. I was like, what is this? This is not fair. I lived in a gallery space with a dear friend of mine, Ian. I lived in a gallery space. Of course you did, motherfucker. And we like, it was set up like a gallery that we just lived in and people would come and get shows. Friend artists would like send things over to the house. We would then

It was like a whole, you know, as one does. That apartment. It's always like, you know, you watch TV shows, especially a TV show set in New York. And you're like, no one lives in an apartment like that. Zach does. I did. So, okay, Sam. I had known Zach. That was in 2017.

maybe we met? Yeah, 2017, 2018. 17, 18. And then I had known your work, Saeed, because I had gotten a copy of Prelude to Bruise years ago. And I was always just a fan of yours from afar, but we had never interacted. But my team pitched me on...

on your memoir, How We Fight for Our Lives. And I remember reading that book, loving the interview and saying to myself, I've never read a memoir like this. I've never had an interview that feels this good on any of my shows. I have to make this man my friend. And I think I like quietly reached out to Zach. I'm not sure how I got your number, but I purposely MacGyvered us into like a text chain. Yes, okay. It was a great interview. I mean, it was one of my favorite moments

conversations, because this is now, we've made it to 2019, because I remember it was my first apartment here in Columbus, and I did it, like they set up a little team in my living room, which was cool. No, it was great, and I can't remember, we would need to go back and listen to it, but you asked a brilliant question, and where it just, I was like, we're doing something, this isn't just like a standard promo interview, you know, news cycle kind of thing, where you just like, with deep empathy, but you were kind of like,

have you learned the lesson? Not in a, you know, and I was like, I don't think, I don't think, I think you were like, kind of like, very, like, are you still attracted to guys? Like, you know, it was, it was great. Well, because there was that really bad man towards the end of the book where like, yeah, the sexual pleasure was also pain and violence. And I remember that chunk of the conversation was like, so how are we doing? How are we doing?

I just, Daniel, to really get to your question. Yeah. I think we are fortunate enough to be three people who've just been doing our thing in media. And hopefully people agree with us that we were doing it well. It's like not fate, but it's just like, of course we were going to get to interact. I was just drawn to y'all. Yeah. And it was very much like...

you know, sometimes you'll see another person in your sphere doing well and your instinct is to be jealous of them. My instinct was always just to like, how can I have them be closer to me? How can I make them mine? I was so happy. I was just so happy. I just realized as we're talking about this, we have all interviewed and been interviewed by each other all separately. Yes. Like, we've all,

I did AM to DM as a guest of Saeed. Saeed came and did AM to DM as a guest of mine. I have done It's Been a Minute. Sam has done AM to DM. It's like we have definitely all over and we've done it together. We did it together. I came and talked about Robin on AM to DM. Yes, you did Robin on AM to DM. And then I had both of you on separately and then both of you on together as well on my last show. So we tested every format.

Yes. Well, and it's like, we just started this group chat that was just fun and I enjoyed it. And I think we started off calling it Witches of Macbeth.

That feels right. That feels true. Yeah, it just became my favorite group chat. And then there was one moment, it was in one of the surges from one of the new variants of COVID, and I had taped something for work that I was just unsatisfied by. And I think I texted y'all, and we had joked about it before, but I was like, we actually are going to make a podcast. Let's make a SoundCloud. I remember that. And it was just like...

Before I knew what we were doing, I was like, we're going to do this and it's going to work. And here we are. And it worked. And what I will say was a big leap of faith for me as a person in media because I never would do something that isn't already kind of like within a contract, doesn't have like a buy or something. Like I'm so risk adverse at times where I'm not willing just to create things just to create them in the internet, which is like,

something that you've brought to me, Sam, is like the joy of just doing something with your friends. And that process was just like a joyful process. You know, because it was y'all, it was so fun and I began to enjoy it. I did love it from the beginning and began to trust the process, but it definitely took me out of my comfort zone. We literally recorded, put it on SoundCloud,

And then sold that. We were just like, take it or leave it. This is the show. We definitely owe a lot to Sam's... Your initiative. You're like, we can do this. We can do this. We can do this. And look at us now. We did it. So yeah, I guess the moral of the story is...

When you see people shining, run towards the shine and put that light on you as well. It always works. Embrace the warmth. Yeah. All right. From Liz G. Liz asked, who's the best cook and or drink maker in your group? I don't cook. I'm just going to go ahead and say that I'm the best drink maker.

Why? I make excellent cocktails. Oh, please. Okay. Oh, honey. I make strong cocktails, but unadventurous cocktails. Okay, fair, fair. Well, you know. I would then say, I don't know. I don't know if we've all cooked for each other before, but I- Do you cook, Zach?

Listen, fun fact about Black Stafford is when I was 16, I had a catering business. Like I thought I was going to be a chef when I was 16. Shut up. What? How did you? I did weddings. I did all types. Yeah, I was like, I was wild. I was in the streets cooking professionally. What was your favorite dish to cook?

Oh my God. This was a question people ask you in interviews when you go to culinary school. Because I did a competition too to get into culinary school. Oh my God. I said pancakes. Because I used to do this trick where I would make pancakes the base of so many different types of dishes, savory and sweet. And I'd put like salads on top of them and do all the stuff with it. So that was my thing. So I can cook. I'm like actually trained for many years. All right. That's your argument, Sam. Okay. Because look, I have no horse in this race. I can do the basics actually when I want to. I just...

I'm usually lazy and don't want to, but fun fact about me, I make a mean steak. So my father for decades was a cattle rancher. And as a kid, there was the family ranch about two and a half hours away from the house in East Texas and Yocum in Cuero, Texas. We had 200 acres and about 300 head of cattle. And my father would butcher a cow or two for the family every year. And we'd have this white deep freezer full of just cuts of meat and white butcher paper.

And so I always knew how to cook meat really well growing up, and I can still make a really mean ribeye and a pretty decent chili and other things. And like all the basics of kitchen I can do. I can make a good breakfast. But in general, I don't cook. I order a lot of food. And I know I would save so much money and own two homes at this point if I was just not in a nasty relationship with caviar, DoorDash, and Uber Eats. Nice.

So I think this one goes to Zach. Yeah. Because your concept of savory pancakes is pretty. That's cool. I'll make it for you. That's cool. I know what you do for the sauce. You do like a balsamic reduction sauce. So it gives you like a sweet and smoky, you know, do all that. But I'm not amazing with meat. So we can all do a dinner party together.

So it's like, Sam, you can do the steaks. I can do everything else. Saeed can do the cocktails. Boom. Hell yeah. Cacao. There we go. There we go. All right. So we have another question from Taylor K. And they ask, what is your favorite thing about your co-hosts? I love how Saeed is so resolute in his conviction. Yeah.

It is refreshing to see and hear and be around someone who has thoughts about the world and stands in them and says, no, I just don't have these thoughts. I can like cite my sources. There's so many conversations where Saeed will have an opinion and you're like, okay. And then three lines later, he's telling you the book to read to get more on that, the movie to watch to get more on that, the thing to know to get more on that. Yeah.

You hear someone as charismatic as Saeed and you think it's just opinion, but all of it's backed up. And that's just beautiful. And so on any given week, I leave conversations with Saeed with a syllabus to keep learning and growing because there's always these receipts with every thought and conviction he has. So I just think that's beautiful. Thank you, Saeed. Oh my God, of course, of course. With Zach, I don't think I've ever met...

a person as gifted as a connector as Zach Stafford. And watching him in action is an education for me, someone who thinks I'm good with people. No, I'm not. Zach is good with people. And not just from like a business strategy standpoint, like it's good to network and Zach is the king of the networkers. But Zach is a human being who makes sure every human being in a room feels seen and feels heard.

And he's able to connect viscerally and deeply with any kind of person almost instantly. He just has this quiet warmth that draws you in. And before you know it,

You're not just telling him your secrets. You're like plotting with him. You're scheming with him. What are we going to do? So I just think it's beautiful. I think it's beautiful. Oh my God, thank you for that. Those two things. I appreciate that. It's like the danger of my friendship with people because we go out in public and a bartender will make an eye at me and I'm immediately like deep in conversation with a bartender who's crying. And my boyfriend is always so mad. He'll be like, we need to leave. Exactly. We need to leave.

Thank you. That means a lot. Thank you. Of course. But that is just like such an essential part of your color, Zach. I don't know if I'm a people person either. I like the idea of people.

I know how to function as a member of society. But I think, you know, being someone who's good at connecting people is an art because you're balancing several things that are hard to do well. Because you have to appreciate and understand an individual wholeheartedly.

who they are, how they see themselves, what they want, how do they thrive. And then you also have to be able to identify those qualities in other people. And what's special about

you, Zach, is that you're bringing together people who might not ever guess that there's actually a really rich opportunity for connection, you know, a bridge that's just waiting for them to kind of walk to the middle, you know? And so I think that that's such insight because it's not you just like shoving people together and saying, make it work. You know, anytime you are invited into a space that Zach has created, and it could be a dinner,

It could be a business project, a creative project. Anytime you've brought in, you very quickly are like, oh, wow. Okay. I see what he's doing here. You know what I mean? Not to make it about Cate Blanchett, but he's a conductor. Yeah.

He is conducting the symphony. Okay? And he's like orchestrating in this beautiful, quiet way. I'm telling you. I love it. Oh my God. He's Tar, baby. No cancellations. No cancellations. Last Me Too moment. So my thing

Sam is, I mean, gosh, there are a few things. Because also Sam and I, we're still learning a lot about each other, right? These last few years, I've known Zach a little bit longer. So I argue that there are two types of intelligence or performative intelligences. There's the type of intelligence that I find disempowering where someone is brilliant and capable. But as an observer, you actually kind of retreat into yourself. You become passive as they're demonstrating their prowess because you're like, oh.

either you feel overwhelmed or you're like, well, I could never get that or just give them the reins, I guess, since they're the smart person. And I think that's ultimately not so great. You epitomize the other type of intelligence, which is empowering. Sam is so smart and curious and deeply read, and clearly we appreciate people who do their research and do their homework, but deeply read on so many important topics that

But the beauty is you are able to connect it to your humanity, your warmth, your appreciation for connection. So your insight, your intelligence is always uplifting. It always...

It always makes me want to be better, to learn more, to try harder. You know what I mean? Like it's, there are a lot of people in that first category. There are a lot of people who use their intelligence, their analysis as like kind of stunt. You know what I mean? And it's kind of like, it's all about me. It's all about me. I think there are very few people actually who are as smart as you, Sam, but you're able to use, it's like electricity. It's like energy. It just feels like you're like powering the grid and

And I just, I love that about you. - Oh my goodness. Thank you. Made my day. Thank you. God, I hate going last on this. 'Cause everything else, I'm like so like- - It's a trap. - I'm like feeling things and now you've said better things than me. - Liz, you set us up. - This is the best. So I will start with Sam. And I would say that Sam, what I love most about you is that you're one of the most genuinely curious people I've ever met.

You just take every opportunity as a yes, but not just a yes, but a yes and. I've seen you privately do this with people. I was saying this to someone the other day, is if someone comes up to Sam Sanders, because most people who listen to podcasts know who Sam Sanders is, but when he meets them or he hears someone say, like my sister said to him once, oh, my friends love your show, you will be like, thank you.

Thank you so much. And also, what do they like about it? Like, you're always asking questions and wanting to go deeper with someone. And it feels very like one-to-one. Like, it's like where I'm a connector, I'm like, you guys get together, go away. You're like, I want to be here with you. I want to sit in this with you. And I want to be in community with you. And I just find it so inspiring. And it pushes me to be more like present with people too.

And I said that about the show where I feel like just watching you talk to people on your show and then talking to us on this show, it just makes me sit still and think and listen better. I like that. Sit still. I appreciate that. And you've done that for me for many years now. And then Saeed, I have learned so much from Saeed Jones. So much from Saeed Jones. Saeed, what I love about you

the most is that you've let me learn how to love myself I think a lot more through your work not just on the show but you know we talked about your book Prelude to Bruise a book of poetry or chapbook before and I famously like went on a date with a man once years ago and read this book to him at the end of the night like I like sat there and

And I think like when I look back. There are only two possible endings for a night like that. But what I think is like what I come to Sayid for is like just to connect with myself and to feel safe with myself. And I think you have like this fierce way of protecting your peace. And that's why I think you have such good analysis because there's never a question of where you stand with yourself or what you think.

or how you view the world. You are mine, and I think hundreds of thousands of people on Twitter is North Star on everything. That's it. Yes. Because it's not like, and you and I do this a lot, I don't come to you for my answer. I come to you for a way of thinking, like a practice of understanding where I'm at. And I think you are that way with so many people. And I think that's why people come to your work. It's not like they read Prelude to Bruise or all your other books and say, oh, this is my life. They're saying, oh, so it's modeling

to me how I can go deeper with myself and like be more in touch with myself. So I just am very, very grateful to that. Thank you. I appreciate that. That means a lot. I love it. We love each other. We love each other. Thank you for the question. All right. After all those feelings, I need a cocktail and a break and you should get one too, but stay tuned. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

All right, we are back. You're listening to Vibe Check, our special mailbag episode, taking questions from our listeners. Our next question comes from Danielle L. She says, what do you do for self-care, especially in the cold winter months? What do I do for self-care in the cold winter months? Well, I live in Los Angeles mostly, so. Oh my God. It gets cold. It does get chilly. It does get chilly. It's like he's rolling his eyes. Go on. It's chilly. It's chilly.

when it's a brisk sci-fi I know what I do oh you before

The best place to be to like reset and get your mind right when the cold weather is getting you down is a place where it's cold but sunny. And I love to go to the desert in the dead of winter. Joshua Tree in the winter, like freezing but bright and beautiful. It is this weird, mystical, magical like reset. I swear to you. If you are able to,

you know, not run away from the cold. Don't just run to the beach, but find light within the cold. That very act can be recharging. I also think cold weather is the perfect time to try recipes that are like low and slow because you can leave your oven on for hours and it's not going to make your house too hot. You can leave your crock pot on all day and make some chili or some stew. So I love to get a good roast in the oven low and slow for hours in the winter because it's not going to overheat my place. And listen, baby,

My aunt Betty gave me one of her crockpots years ago. That motherfucker comes out every November, December. And you just put stuff in the crockpot, turn it on, come back in a few hours, you got a meal for days. It's true. Crockpot living in the winter. Oh my God. It works. And don't get sexy. You don't need no pressure cooker. You don't need no instant pot. No, no, no. Crockpot, baby. Don't get sexy. You're so funny. So that's for me. I think I like baby.

bake more and I don't do it as much but I'll make cookies. I love to do this thing where I make cookie dough and then make individual balls of it and freeze it so that you can just drop it in for single servings. And I'm more leaning into that during the winter months because cookie dough has always been this thing

I have my own little childhood trauma moment of being a kid and my stepmother being like, stop eating all the cookie dough. Me being like, when I'm an adult, I'll be able to eat as much cookie dough as I want. So now as an adult, cookie dough is kind of that like key to agency, self-empowerment. Oh, I thought you were going to say I had a real bad bout of salmonella. No, just familial shaming, you know, just that. You know, you know that. See, I think cookie,

dough. It's like I go buy it or cook it, but it's definitely a winter thing for me. The other thing, this is my deep dark secret, I think chocolate chip cookie dough is the best warm cookie dough. A fully cooked chocolate chip cookie is great, but warm chocolate chip cookie dough? Delicious. Also, life hack,

People don't want to respect it, but the little break and bake cookie dough from the grocery store, it's pretty fucking good. It gets the job done. Pretty fucking good. It does. It gets the job done. It does. So as someone who lives in Ohio, where there actually is a winter, where we do have all four seasons. Seasons. It is important to have many strategies. Yeah.

Okay, so let's see. First of all, I would say the winter, the dark months, and then there's two halves. So there's the twinkly half.

Which is to say, really, Halloween into New Year's. A lot of holidays. A lot of holiday parties. A lot of, oh, look, the Festival of Lights. Like, every community, there's just, like, a lot of opportunities to come together and to do things. Do it. Get out there and do it. I have these moments where I'm like, I don't want to get out there.

out there and do it. Like, oh, there's a hot chocolate. Go. There's a little hot chocolate party. Someone's going to go. There's a little holiday party. Go. Oh, go see the lights in the parks. Go. Like I say, for the twinkly part of winter, I think it's actually essential that you get out and you're in community and you, you know, you kind of go and you go, oh, this is a little cheesy. Like here in Columbus, every year there's a German neighborhood called German Village and they have like all the houses put on their lights and you can walk around drinking your boozy cider and look at the lights and it's like

Go and be with people during that part of the season as much as you can because then we get to the second half of winter. You're not leaving the house. All the holidays, all the twinkly goes away, and then you're like, damn. And it's just cold and hard. And that's when I think so much of what Sam and Zach are talking about, the cooking, I think collaging, creating –

activities and things you can do at home. Obviously, like, you know, binge watching TV is great. Cooking. I love collaging. Something that, you know, drawing, giving yourself something to do. Maybe you do take up crocheting. Find the joys that allow you to actually celebrate the intimacy and the privacy and the kind of isolation that comes with January, February. And by all means, I am a Sagittarius. If you can afford it, think ahead. You know what late January and February is like.

Book some flights if you can. Everyone cannot do that. And so I want to be very realistic. But if you can afford to even just plan just one trip, like in late January, February, just somewhere. And I love like, you're right, the desert. It doesn't have to be to the beach. Just somewhere else, I think. Just changing your scenery, it can make quite a difference. And then my other thing is, and this is just swinging for me. You've got to decide what your philosophy is on parkas.

Are you a heavy parka? I love it. Philosophy. Are you a heavy parka light weight?

underclothes person or are you a heavy underclothes person light parka person you know I prefer I've discovered like I don't like to be wearing heavy sweaters and scarves and all that just I have one huge parka I put on that's like a shield like I'm a character in Game of Thrones and then under it I'm wearing like underclothes that keeps me because I just for me if getting dressed every time I have to go walk the dog feels like getting dressed for war yeah you don't want to do it yeah

I also will say it got into the 50s last night in L.A. and I use that as an opportunity to start a fire in the fire pit in the backyard. Oh, fire pits. I find it meditative. I can start a fire and just stare into it for hours. So use winter as your time to find fire. Perhaps not in your home or in your backyard, but go find a fire, sit by it.

It is restorative on a primal level. But definitely when it comes to winter and self-care, you can't just like sit there and expect to feel differently. I mean, like light, time, the odds are against us. You're not just going to like have a great day if you don't put some effort or some thought into it. It's true. It's real. Remember in the winter months, happiness is an active verb. You have to do things to get to happiness. You have to hunt that motherfucker down.

Yes, you do. Bow and arrow, baby. So our next question is from Regina D. They write, you each have interviewed and interacted with some pretty powerful and influential people in the course of your careers in media. Who surprised you the most upon meeting them in person and why?

I will say, Catherine Han is the realest white woman out in these streets. I like her. Most love her from I Love Dick, but she's been in everything. She was the villain in WandaVision. That's where Agatha is from. She's great. Great hair. Great hair, good vibes. We just connected on this visceral level. Halfway through the conversation, I realized we were leaning across the studio bench holding hands. We were just in it. She's someone who

opens up emotionally really intentionally right away and is very earnest about it. And then besides that,

Michaela Cole is the most centered person working in Hollywood. She has a philosophy of self and a philosophy of the work and a philosophy of what her mission in life is that is so pure and fully realized. None of the other shit gets to her. She does this thing where like she'll go hibernate for years, make a project and then come out when it's ready. And

And then disappear again when it's time to go back. And she talked about that with me in more than one interview and her process and her relation to God and how that informs the work. I think she is the most grounded person working in the biz today. So those two. And your episode with her, your conversation with her is really good. I remember I hiked to listen to it once. It was really good. Yeah, she's great. Saeed, what about you?

few. Angela Bassett glows from within. It really does. I mean, when I was working at BuzzFeed, you get used to seeing celebrities and they're generally very beautiful people. Often more beautiful, I think, than they look on camera for some reason. Maybe it's because you're sitting at your desk and the next thing you know, it's like, oh, there's a... But

It's actually very rare. Even amongst all the beautiful celebrities, she is like lit from within. It was like, where is a spotlight following you around? Just something in her spirit.

Something that did feel holy. It did feel earned. There's something about her. She has a relationship to herself. And I don't know about her faith, but there's something deeper going on with Angela Bassett. And then her voice is like a molasses purr. People's voices often get to me and that voice just like, ooh!

Jill Temple's fine. Thank you to Brian. That's just, that really is. Cause I think she lived in Florida for a long time, which people might not know. So she has like, there's a Southern drawl to her natural speaking voice that I loved. Oh, who else? Seth Rogen speaking of voices. You love Seth Rogen. You are into that man. Oh man.

Maybe. It's so funny because I had no opinion on it. I mean, I'd seen him in things. You know, I like Pineapple Express or whatever. You know, that's a good stoner movie. And I remember I was like, to be honest, not like jumping to do this interview. I was just like, okay, fine, whatever. But Isaac...

my friend was co-hosting and was watching in the control room and he said, Said, it was like literally watching you fall in love with someone in real time. Like I went from being fully like, who's this person? Okay, whatever, to by the end, it was like, he's just incredibly charming. His voice has a timber to it. It's low. It's really low. Yeah. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah.

And he's very smart. And I think, I always think intelligent, funny people tend to be pretty smart. Usually. So fun fact about him, a good friend of mine who works in weed justice issues and racial equity in marijuana, uh,

She behind the scenes low-key has been working with Seth for years because in all of his marijuana activism and work, he wants to get it right and acknowledge his privilege and like work knowing that. Okay. So he like does the work and does the readings. That makes me happy. Yeah. Love that. What about you, Seth? That smile on your face, Saeed. I think I'm blushing. Yes, you are. Go on.

I'm like literally playing with my microphone cord. Oh my God. Like twirling your hair like a little high school girl. I love it. For me, the first person that comes to mind is

is Anna Wintour because I had never been so nervous to meet somebody. Well, I'm curious to see what you're going to say about her. I had never been so petrified to meet somebody. And I've met lots of, I mean, we've all met so many people in this world. But Anna Wintour was just, she's Anna Wintour. And I was a magazine editor. I looked up to her growing up. I just don't know a world without her. I

I've met her a bunch now, and the first time I met her, it was just so striking how kind of she listens so actively in a way that I've never seen before. When you sit in front of her, she is literally analyzing everything, and she hangs on to every word.

And she does give the air of, like, I'm trying. I'm trying to be here. I'm trying to listen. She doesn't look at her phone. She has teams around her. But the whole thing is like, it's just kind of the most surreal thing. And every time I see, I've talked to her, it's just like, there's a clarity there. I would say she was the most nerve-wracking person I've ever spoken to in my life. It was really something. Okay.

Okay. And then I would say the person that brought me so much joy that I just like was floating forever and ever was Kelly Rowland. She's so sweet. Yeah. She seems so sweet. That makes me happy. To your point, Saeed, there's something about...

Certain celebrities are more beautiful in person. It's like a camera does no justice at all for these people. And I've been in the same room as all of Destiny's Child women. And Kelly Rowland, I would say, has the most warm energy. And I think it has to do a lot with that she's not Beyonce. Beyonce has teams around her. She's so famous and so protected that it's uncomfortable to be next to her a bit. But Kelly Rowland is just gorgeous. I love it. We are going to take a break. When we come back, a few more questions. Don't go anywhere.

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All right. We are back. And before we end the show, we want to dig a little further into our mailbag. So we have a question here from S. Praetorius. What a magnificent name, Praetorius. That's a great name. I got to fix my posture for that. Is there a favorite television show or movie in the past that you watched and really vibed with and realized years later that it was very problematic? Oh, I'm sure that's a lot.

Oh, I have one. My bird ass thought Crash was good for about two or three years. You know what? In theaters, Crash had me. It did. Crash had me. The whole of the hat. Homegirl in the car crying in the car. Come on. Come on. Yes. I was an undergrad when the movie came out and I was the president of my college's Black Student Association.

And we all loved it so much. I got the Black Student Association and the Latino Student Association. We had a joint watch crash movie night with discussion afterward. And we were so proud of ourselves. Look back four or five years later, what the fuck were we doing? That movie was trash. I mean, that person, I think,

Paul Haggis or Haggis. He's caught up in some drama right now with Me Too situations. And Crash beat out Brokeback Mountain for Best Picture at the Oscars that year. The biggest crime in movie history. I mean, Crash had Hollywood by like the throat.

Like people were so obsessed because it also was like a message. It was about like dealing with racism and intersectionality. It just, and also it was in LA and there was a car accident. It just was everything people cared about. It was so bad. That's a good one. Mine,

is the second version of this series called Queer as Folk when it went to HBO. Not the original British one. So you liked the reboot at first? Oh, I loved it at the time. So yeah, the original American one. The one that's in Pittsburgh, but they filmed it in Toronto. Yeah, it premiered in like 1999. Because I thought about the latest reboot. No, the reboot that's canceled, no. I love everyone in that show, wonderful people.

But the original in 1999, which opens with, you know, Brian Kinney performing anal fellatio on a 16-year-old Justin. Girl, we can say rimming. I like saying anal fellatio. Wait. I forgot. I was like, rimming. And you're like, no, it was a high school student. That's the issue. That's why it's a high school student. But it was...

You're right, that was the pilot. That was the pilot. And that was a show that all of us used to like watch really low on your TVs because you didn't want your parents to know. And that show now revisiting is so problematic. Can I rewatch it still all the time? It's so problematic.

There's not one black person in it. Not one. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. When it came out, I think I was in the seventh grade or something. So it felt, I mean, it was radical and groundbreaking in a lot of ways. Yeah, I rewatched it in 2012, 2013, because there's a character arc a few seasons in that is based on Bryan Singer.

Yeah. And so when the allegation against Bryan Singer, I was like, there are some things that I liked about the show. I think that it did a good job of explaining why these characters are still a part of each other's lives. That shows like looking didn't do very well. Like look, I was like, why are these people

They clearly all hate each other. They were not friends. Queer as Folk did a good job of explaining like how they become this little group. But yeah, a lot of the... Yeah. It's like a lot of cringe. I would say Will and Grace 2 is up there too where you're like, go back and you're like, oh, some of these jokes about race and things are not that great. But Queer as Folk I think is the most like, it just meant so much to me. And I still rewatch it and I like let go of all, you know, the need for it to be okay now.

I also think there's a difference between something being dated, like a joke that made sense for its time and was on par for like where the cultural barometer was and something where you're, it's like, you know, an adult man having sex with a mind. That's not dated. That's not dated. That's appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. Sayid Richard. I,

This breaks my heart. The Fifth Element is one of my favorite movies. I know. It's one of my favorite movies. I just rewatched it. It's just, there's a lot of joy there. It's a colorful movie. I think it's idea of the family

John Galliano's designs, Chris Tucker's performances. Everyone's performance is really good. The blue alien singing with the opera remix. Like it is, and I do. When she's like breakdances. Oh my God. Yeah, I do. I still love the movie, but the reason I no longer like leap to be like, it's my favorite movie. I'll fight you over it is like,

The misogyny is written into the script. Like the way like this female character is written and treated in terms of her body and the way she's looked at. And to now learn from interviews with Mila Jovovich that like in interviews she said that members of the crew, to be the camera people, the sound people, everything, that it was pretty normal for there to be like cat calls and whistles when she would come out in that. Like, you know, it's like that. She's in that like bandage. Yeah.

And again, you can't separate it from the movie itself because the movie's always commenting on her body too. And the idea that the strong woman can't do it. She needs a man. She needs Bruce Willis. You know, that's really, as I've grown up and grown into my humanity, it's just like, I can't really avoid that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, thank you for that question, Pretorius. Actually, S. Pretorius. I was so taken by your last name. Well, that was really fun. This was good. This was good. And thank you for sending questions. We didn't get to all of them, but we'll get to them next time, my dears. Thanks for letting us dive into... I felt like we went into the archives of the group chat, honestly. Yeah, we did. Yeah.

I also thought it was a very much like, you know, Oprah legends, ball energy, us giving flowers to each other. I'm here for that all the time. There was love in this room. There was a lot of love. I felt God in this Chili's. Okay.

Thank you all for tuning in to this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform. Huge thank you to our producer, Chantel Holder, engineer Brendan Burns, and Marcus Hom for our theme music and sound design. Special thank you to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brendan Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least, thank you to Jared O'Connell and Imelda Skender for all of their help.

Also, listeners, as always, we want to hear from you. Don't forget, you can email us at any time. The email address is vibecheckatstitcher.com. Also, keep in touch with us on Twitter, at Sam Sanders, at Zach Stafford, and at The Ferocity. And you can use the hashtag vibecheckpod to tweet us on the socials.

Also, we're on TikTok at VibeCheckPod. All right. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Till then, happy Thanksgiving to you and whatever chosen family you choose to be with this week. Love y'all mean it. Bye. Bye. Stitcher.

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