You’ve Got Mouth Bangs, Girl
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Ladies, chicas, bonitas, señoritas, women of the day and night. Ooh, okay. Greetings. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford, and you're listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

This week, we are giving you some hot takes. Fresh off the presses or whatever. You act like that's new. Yeah, I know. It's not new. It's not new. Megan Thee Stallion, who we stan, love, have always stood up for on this show, released a song called Hiss.

in it. She has a line, which we'll dive more into, but it's allegedly a punch. It's a hit or whatever we're going to call it, a rap battle moment with Nicki Minaj, her arch nemesis. And Nicki Minaj has responded in ways that have become a bit too stereotypical of Nicki Minaj. We're going to talk a lot about that in the history. Nicki gonna Nicki. Nicki's gonna Nicki. But we're going to talk about that and just the state of the rap beef and what it meant and what it means now and what Nicki should be doing with her time instead of this.

After that, speaking of what people should be doing with their time, we're talking about the Democrats and the increasing pressure they're having by the general public, including black preachers, to have, let's

let's say, a better handling of the fallout from Israel and Hamas's war, specifically, and really doing a better job of calling for a ceasefire. We're going to talk a lot about that and how it's going to impact the next year. And we're going to talk about how Nancy Pelosi is back in the headlines. Yeah. She's going to the crib. She's back. It's a mess. She's back. Super chill episode this week. Nicki Minaj

genocide, and the black church. Like, you know, like just a dash. With the dash of Aunt Nancy on top. Remember when she wore the kente cloth and kneeled at the Capitol? Who could forget? Hey!

Shenanigans, shenanigans. Shenanigans. Well, before we do all of that labor, I'm going to call it, that's labor, to get through all that, I want to check in with my sisters and see how we are all doing. So Sam, how are you doing? Tell us about Wesley, who I see all over your Instagram right now. And I hear his jingle now on the episodes, which is really lovely. I know.

He has taken the world in my heart by storm. He's settling in just fine. Every day, he's more happy in the world, which I love. We have yet to start the formal puppy training because I'm like, I'm going to give you two or three weeks to just break in. But baby, it's coming. Okay? It's coming. But he's good. But my biggest vibe this week is...

I was having a conversation with a friend after watching the SNL this past weekend that featured Dakota Johnson. She's actually really fun. Dry sense of humor. She's the one who took Ellen down. Oh. The standard icon legend. But she has bangs. And she's had bangs for a long time. And she's probably one of the biggest wearers of bangs in the industry. I was talking to a friend about the episode and her bangs, which I love. Yeah.

And my friend was like, you know what, Sam? You got bangs, too. You what? And I was like, excuse me? Like, you got bangs. And so we're talking. And she was like, you'll remember you shaved off your beard and got a mustache right around the time your mother died and you and your boyfriend broke up.

And I said, what? You got mouth bangs, girl. I got mouth bangs. I got the equivalent of bangs for a bald gay man with facial hair. Oh, my God. And so ever since then, I've just been like, oh, shit. Have I actually been in my bangs era for the last several months?

And you know what, dear listener? I think I have that. It's like white gay men bleach their hair. Get a mustache. In my bangs era. I also think it's like brown men too because I have a Mexican friend who recently posted who is always, I think, going through a breakup or something. He said, I'm sorry to report that there will be a mustache now. And I was like, oh, she is going through it.

Mustache is bangs for gay men. So then I'm like, all right, I love this idea. Let's run with it. And I'm like, all right, if I'm in my bangs era, what does it mean? When we think of like women after a breakup getting bangs, what are they doing? They're saying to an unfortunate event.

where things kind of went out of their control. They're saying, oh, there are some parts of life in me that I can control. I can control my body. I can control what I do with it. And this is actually empowering. And I think it's so easy for us to look at the trope of bangs post-breakup or a blonde dye job post-breakup as trite and petty. But to quote

Auntie Maxine, you're kind of reclaiming your time and you're reclaiming your body and you're reclaiming your autonomy. So I'm like, all right, if I'm in my bangs era, what does that mean? And it kind of means making choices that help me live the life that I want to live on my face and everywhere else.

So yeah, in my bangs era. I had really thought about it so deeply. But yeah, it's like after a breakup, one of the things you're doing is like trying to see yourself, trying to like see yourself more clearly. Who am I? What have I been doing? And of course, anytime we change a hairstyle, you know, whatever, it refocuses your attention, right?

You know what I mean? And that kind of sharpens the picture. So yeah, I guess it makes sense. Okay. In my bangs era. I still love that this is presenting a more self-care radical positionality to dramatic haircuts. Being like, no, this is about reclaiming my power. It's about autonomy. It's about agency. Who could have foreseen that Dakota Johnson would get us here? You know? Listen, Dakota, we thank you. Yeah.

We thank you. So yeah, that's my vibe and my bang zero. Also, my vibe is so excited. We're going to kick off a series on Vibe Trek very soon called Hey Sis. And for about two months, the three of us are going to be interviewing black women we love. First up will be a chat that I have with Audie Cornish, CNN and NPR journalist who we all love. I can't wait to share it with y'all. So my vibe is also happy to share that.

Listeners, the first episode of Hey Sis, a Vibe Check series, debuts next Monday. Be sure to check it out. Put a calendar reminder, okay? So excited for that conversation and the series at large because...

I would say the series is another example of us, you know, reaching into our phones and pulling in our dear friends who are doing amazing work and really sharing some special connections. And you and Adi have always been so connected. When I was like an NPR lackey there trying to get my own career off the ground, you two were kind of the example of what I meant to be black journalists working at a high level. So I'm excited to hear that conversation very soon. It's going to be good. Saeed, how are you doing?

My vibe is, is everyone okay? Are the girls? The head turn that Saeed gave when he delivered that line was poetic. Are we good? Like, just as, I mean, this is just one example, but I'm seeing this everywhere. My friends, Ellen and Tanya, we're in another group text. And they were talking about how, I guess, like the Twitter account for Elmo just...

Just tweet it. And, you know, like big social media accounts do. Like, hey, just checking in. How's everyone doing? And so many people replied, like, just like trauma dumping on this person.

On Elmo! Red, hairy child that the Sesame Street account actually had to post mental health resources. Yeah. And I'm like, what's going on? I didn't know it went that far. Oh, it went that far. They were like, um... Oh, no! Like, this is a children's account. Like, this is actually not funny. So there's a headline from Business Insider that reads, Elmo checked in and asked how everyone's doing and probably wishes he hadn't.

Yeah, and here's the follow-up. Wow, Elmo is glad he asked because Oscar had to get into it. Look, Sesame Street was like all hands on deck. But one of Elmo's replies, wow, Elmo is glad he asked. Elmo learned that it's important to ask a friend how they are doing. Elmo will check in again soon. Elmo loves you. Hashtag emotional well-being.

Y'all got this baby. And for the record, all Elmo tweeted was, quote, Elmo was just checking in. How is everybody doing? That's all this child said. So here's my thing. Just like we went from Dakota Johnson to self-actualization. Oh!

The thing with Elmo is I've been thinking a lot, like this is one of my theories when I'm walking around my apartment talking to myself because I'd be having a good one-sided conversation. Same girl. And I've been thinking about like physics and the concept of displacement because energy cannot be created or destroyed, right? You can change it, you can convert how it manifests or you displace it.

And I just feel like, I mean, both with our segments today, whether we're talking about pop culture, the realm of Nicki Minaj and Megan Thee Stallion, these are pop stars. But there's a sense of war to it, right? And then obviously, quite literally with Israel and Gaza, war, genocide, and then how it all, not just what's going on in Gaza-

But, you know, whether you want to talk about campuses, you're seeing it spill over, of course, into black church politics. Like, it doesn't end. And I just feel that there's this energy out there. We are all aware that some really heavy shit is going on. And whether we want to accept it

as our issue or responsibility to address we do feel the energy and so i'm just sensing like displacement where there's like a disproportionate intensity even greta and margot being snubbed by the oscars which you know frustrating annoying i think greta in particular obviously should have been nominated for best director but then you've got hillary clinton

tweeting about it like it's actual oppression. And I'm like, what's going on? And like feminist Hillary Clinton wants to take up the case of these two very privileged, rich white women and not talk about women in Palestine. Yeah. Yeah. Like, don't get me started. My sense is that like, even like a, you know, a sweet, harmless tweet from Elmo, like,

turns into something else because I just think we've got a, I'm going to say guilt or maybe animus that we maybe all aren't kind of processing, acknowledging, and more importantly, working to solve. And so, yeah, in the meantime, all of that's going to be spilling out in very chaotic ways. That's my thing. Well, and also, the Elmo stuff is proof to me that not enough Americans are seeing mental health professionals on a regular basis because if you got to make a tweet from Elmo, your therapy session...

Listen, sometimes it takes a small thing to really release some of it. You know, for you, Sam, was bangs. For the rest of the world, it was Elmo checking in. I know. We all, it just sometimes. The girls are going through it. But you're right. Elmo is not on the clock. Elmo's not on the clock. Yeah. Zach, what's your vibe? Well, I will say this. I have not been well. See? Look. Look at us. Ah!

Look at us. Look at us. I, in typical me, you know, I got back from Sundance. I was like, oh, this cough is just a little thing. It's not a thing. It's just a cough. And that cough has become like, I had to leave my house for days. Did you get Craig sick? One of us got each other sick. We don't know where it began, chicken or egg, but we're both sick and we love each other. And I'm glad we could take care of each other together because if he was out in these streets while I was stuck at home, there would have been a fight. I mean,

It's the moment I looked at him, I was like, thank God you are sick because I would be pissed. So much is going around. I mean, I know people who are sick and they think they have COVID and it's the flu or vice versa. It's, yeah. I'm feeling better. And what's interesting when you're really offline is you get to see what really punctures through the culture. But the one thing I will mention that I love about

that also punctured through was that Taylor Swift will be going to the Super Bowl and I do not care if you don't believe that this relationship is real or not. I love the fantasy. I love the delulu of it all. The ridiculousness. And I'm going to be tuned in for this romance that's going to be happening. I didn't know people were like actually mad about it. I thought people were like annoyed. The right wing thinks that she's like a liberal op. Yeah.

Which makes it like football fans into liberals. If no one's been following this conspiracy theory, which is like so ridiculous, the idea is that she was a plant and that the NFL's been on her side and that this is all tied back to Biden's 2024 play and that the Chiefs are going to win, Taylor's going to get on the field and they're going to endorse Biden and then

Biden's going to win the election. And I'm like, girl, that's not how any of this works. They're going to be like, Travis Kelsey, where are you going after you win? And she'll just interrupt and be like, four more years. This doesn't make any sense. What? Let me tell you something. The only thing that I'm looking forward to out of this relationship is the breakup album. Because you know it's going to be a banger.

You know. It's going to be earth shifting if that happens. I don't want it to happen because it's going to be a lot. Well, because Travis Kelsey will make a comeback album. I was about to say, you know he's going to try to put out like a rap mixtape. Oh God. This is giving too much Britney Spears and Kevin Federline when he put out a rap album. It's awful. Like this is not. Bad vibes. So the vibe for all three of us is not well, bitch. We're banged up.

We're sick. Crawling across this finish line called doing a show. And still we rise. And still we rise. All right, listeners, before we get into this episode, I want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail. We do read it. I really loved all the emails about...

cultural stagnation. Really smart listeners, really smart takes. Thank y'all for all of it. We read every single one. Reach out to us all the time, whenever. Social media, email. For email, we are at vibecheckatstitcher.com, vibecheckatstitcher.com. And also, leave us a review of this podcast when you can. Okay, with that, let's jump right in, shall we? Let's do it. ♪

I am so excited to use this segment

To flashback to a time in my life when I wore baggy starched jeans and followed rap beefs as if I were a straight man. Baggy starched jeans. That's such a specific image. I used to starch. And that crease. You know that crease? Oh, yeah. And it's also not as Y2K as the kids are doing Y2K. It is very 90s Y2K. It's pre-Y2K. This was like the first...

iteration of juvenile and the hot boys cash money records they were starting those jeans yeah fubu was huge all that yes i have digressed we're here to talk about a starched impressed rap battle that has been trending for a few days now if you haven't heard by now nikki minaj and megan the stallion are fighting and it's a girl making me think to my stomach it's a nasty beef

Before I jump into it and break down the details and who said what, I want both of you, Zach and Saeed, to give me your reaction to this battle in just three words. You get three words. Give me your three-word take on this battle, then we'll explain it all. Mine will be, what the hell? Yes, yes. I like that because, like, why? All right, Saeed. Patriarchy needs enforcers.

Not the cops. Explain that. Explain that. Well, because, I mean, there's so much going on here, but it is really striking how straight up misogynist

So much of this is, though there were not any men directly involved. The women are doing it. Yeah, yeah. And something I remember learning from a lot of black feminist thought was that patriarchy often kind of anoints women as enforcers. And I think of in a lot of our families, for example, the concept of the grandmother patriarchy.

telling the young women in the family how to dress. You can't be wearing that. You be a real man. It's like you don't necessarily need men in the room for patriarchy to be thriving. Bam.

Bam. With that, let's get into it. I'm going to try to explain this beef as quickly as possible. Godspeed. I know. Let me get my tea and put myself on mute and watch this shit. Santel is going to add some clips and posts to allow you listeners to hear this stuff. But let's go. Last Thursday night, Megan Thee Stallion released a track called Hiss.

It calls out a lot of people in the industry, given the last few years she's had. She's been through it and not treated well by the industry, fans, etc. So she calls folks out. But there seems to be one line in this song, Hiss, that takes direct attack at Nicki Minaj and her husband. Megan raps. These hoes don't be mad at Megan. These hoes mad at her.

Now, Megan's law is a law that's on the books that requires law enforcement to publish information about sex offenders so that people living around the sex offenders know they're there.

And by Megan referencing this law, listeners said, oh, she's referencing Nicki Minaj's husband, who is, in fact, a registered sex offender. Nicki's husband, Kenneth Petty, served four years after a conviction of attempted rape for a 1995 assault on a 16-year-old girl.

Also, Petty has served time for manslaughter in the first degree for killing a man in 2002. And just to reiterate, because you did a great job, Sam, but reiterate to those that are Barb's man, these aren't alleged things. These are actually convicted, served, registered. He is established. This is a thing. Well, and like even Nikki herself has acknowledged that these things have happened, but she always says he was really young when it happened and it was 30 years ago. I think he was a teenager, but...

I believe he was 16 at the time with the statutory rape. But 2002, attempted murder. Not attempted murder, excuse me, first degree for killing a man. That was fairly recent. So Megan releases the song Hiss. It takes a crack at Nicki Minaj's husband's sex offender status.

And then Nikki shoots back. She's queuing up the comeback track for like two days on social media, on her radio show. I think it was three. She was hyping it for a while. To be clear, it's like 72 hours nonstop. Did she sleep? Teasing. She was arguing with the youths on TikTok. I saw her tweeting nonstop. I had to create it because I've been locked out of my Twitter account. I had to create a damn burner account because I'm like, well, Sam and Zach are sleeping through. Oh, no.

this chaos someone's gotta be on the case so Nicki finally releases the response track to Megan's hiss it's called Bigfoot and from the title alone and the cover art you can say oh it's inherently problematic because Nicki Minaj right here is making fun of Megan's body and how tall she is and how big her feet might be it's vaguely well one it's not nice to other women and two it's vaguely transphobic

This is why I actually don't like the word problematic. I'm like, no, it's not problematic. It's anti-black. It's anti-trans. And then I saw a black woman post. She was just like, imagine being a black woman accusing another black woman of looking like an ape. So that's one level to it. And then, yeah, I think the obsession of the idea that Meg is...

and thus less a woman feels anti-trans to me. It's, it's, woo! Yeah, well, and it's a double entendre because as we know, Megan Thee Stallion, a few years ago, was shot in the foot by Canadian rapper Tory Lanez. He was convicted and is now serving time for it. But Nicki Minaj, for a while, has doubted the truth of Megan's story in that regard. So, she releases this song called Bigfoot, making fun of Megan's features and the violence that she endured. And,

And there's one lyric that says, Woof.

She goes on to say, ho, the things you've lied about, even pertaining to your mom, you don't want them out, okay? She says, how you fuck your mother's man when she die? Then she says, how do you go on Gail Keane and can't cry? Swearing on your dead mother when you lie. Fuck, you got shot with no scar? Wow.

I'm just so annoyed. And something that hit me as you were talking, because I was just singing the praises of, you know, one Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey's love that I'm into the delulu of is, do you know who Nicki Minaj loves most in this world right now and always? Is Taylor Swift, because Taylor Swift helped

her start charting and she talks a lot about it. And you know who's taller than Megan Thee Stallion? Taylor Swift. I just like don't know why Nicki to Saeed's point, the anti-blackness, the anti-woman-ness of this all that like being directed at a fellow black woman who just a few years ago you had a huge song with that you did, Hot Girl Summer. And like how did this happen? So I guess anyway, back to Sam.

I'm just so confused. It's so weird. To be clear, listeners, when I'm laughing, this is like stress laughter because I'm just like really put out by this as anxiety laughter. It's troubling.

Megan's rap name is Megan Thee Stallion. She has fully embraced her height and stature. And she's like, yeah, I am a woman. Can you handle it? So in addition to the anti-blackness, the anti-trans kind of overtones of all this,

Making fun of someone when it's like well, that's literally their rap name So I don't think this is really a point of insecurity for Megan But also after months and months of months throughout the ordeal of the Tory Lanez trial Nikki was constantly implying that Megan was lying about being shot and then it's like but then you're making fun of her like what is what's going on? What is it? Yes. Yes, so that's just to catch you up on the songs themselves, but

Once these tracks are released, it gets even crazier because, as we all know by now, Nicki Minaj has a very strong relationship with her most intense fans who are called Barbz.

And they oftentimes threaten to or do really nasty things on Nicki's behalf. Once these tracks are released, Nicki Minaj starts to retweet her supporters and the threatening tweets they're making towards Megan. And then eventually, apparently, some of Nicki's most diehard supporters figure out where Megan Thee Stallion's mother's grave is and start going there. And Nicki knows this and says nothing. What?!

This is where it leaves the realm of like a rap battle that we maybe can laugh at and admire from afar to a real world situation with real world consequences. And so stopping there with that catch up, I want to hear you both tell me what you're making of this entire situation. There's so much to unpack. And I want to talk about the efficacy of rap battles in our current modern era. But let's start with where I left off.

the nikki supporters at the grave of megan's mom what the hell it's obviously incredibly vile i can't even imagine supporting anyone desecrating someone i hated even whatever someone else's family that has passed away very recently too

It just feeds into this awful culture and stand-up that the Beehive also participates in at times. Others, of course, do. Two of other big stars. But it's just the vitriol and the violence of fandom and this fact that you have to take these artistic swipes, which there's a world, and there has been a world in the past where artists do make songs about each other and the battle stays there. And we see that across a lot of art. You see a lot of famous artists going head-to-head through their practice.

You see this in voguing. Voguing as a dance practice is a battle between two rivals going against each other, but it stays there. But the fact that these fans and Nicki are pushing it outside the realm of the art practice and into a violent environment.

either physical altercation or desecration of someone's burial site. It's just really awful and we've all lost the plot of all this and it's all collapsing onto itself. So I just, I don't understand. I don't like it. I wish there was a world in which they just kept releasing songs like

jay-z and nas did coming at each other and not this way and this is the thing that i want to talk about but first i want to get your take saeed but after that i want to put this in historical reference next to other rap battles like the one between nas and jay-z which ended up just being lucrative for both of them and nobody was hurt you know or nikki and remi ma yeah yeah

I think hip-hop is, despite what white people think and try to act like, hip-hop is a very actually rich, specific culture. And rap beefs are an important part of it. The diss track is an essential part of the form. And I would say to be a rapper...

and to not engage diss tracks and the freestyle and everything. It's kind of like if you were going to be a stand-up comedian and then not want to do crowd work or deal with hecklers. You have to. That's how you do it. It's how it goes. Yeah, it's not a bug. It's a feature.

To me, so much of this is concerning, right? Obviously. This is beyond the realm of the barbs are insane or this is just messy. I'm like, no, this is scary. This is toxic. This can lead to some really even worse outcomes. I'll say that.

My thing is, though, it's also to me very damning that it can't be contained within the art. That there is this spillover to threats. I saw one woman on TikTok, she's a lawyer, and she was getting doxxed by Barbz, and she was like, I'll just take this to court and sue you. This is...

Or have you lost it? Or like the gravesite stuff. Or, you know, I saw someone else, like people are being chased off Twitter. To me, it reeks of like a kind of toxic insecurity. If you're in a rap beef, and I don't even know if Megan would say it is. This actually does feel very one-sided. That's the other part of it. Like she didn't even...

say Nikki's name in the song. Megan's law implies to the entire state of California, and I'm going to tell you, there are a whole bunch of creeps in the music industry she could have been referring to, but Nikki took it so personally. And so I feel like, again, displacement, this disproportionate response where it can't even be contained in the music. One tells me that the music isn't strong enough.

You do not have enough faith and your ability as a lyricist and producer to just put it all in the music. Instead, it has to spill out into every other messy, toxic space. And we should point out here right now, this diss track from Nicki is one of the worst things I've ever heard from her in her career. Heard her? You can barely hear her. Yeah, it's recorded badly, bad audio quality. It's lazy. It's rambling. She sounds unnerving.

unhinged in some disturbing ways, it's not good. And I say this to someone who thinks that Nicki Minaj is the greatest woman rapper, if not greatest...

rapper up on top of the list of the last quarter century, but this is trash. And this diss track is trash and it comes in the wake of an album that was subpar for Nicki Minaj, Pink Friday 2. Pitchfork gave it a 6.5, which was really nice of them to do, but it has been dragged. And there are some really good commercial boppy things, but it's not of the level of Nicki Minaj is a titan of rap.

Yeah.

Nas says that Jay-Z looks like a camel. Called the camel face, Joe the camel, and baby, it's stuck. These two are friends now, but it's stuck. But I find myself saying, all right, I'm okay with that. I loved the joke. I loved, like, they're playing the dozens. They're making fun of your physical features. That's what rap battles are. And playing the dozens is a part of the black vernacular. Yes, it's as old as the blues tradition. Absolutely. There you go. And I just wonder, and I want to talk about this.

I'm okay when Jay-Z and Nas do it. Something about when it's happening from Nicki to Megan about the size of her body, it doesn't feel right. Why? I think...

if you situate it within the larger context of Megan she spent the last few years having her whole body physical and both musical body her artistic body work everything under deep attacks like no one was really standing up for her you have people like Drake coming for her as we've mentioned in the show Drake is one of the most powerful artists for the past three decades like she has been alone she's lost her mother she's lost other family members so to have these hits at her about her body about

The thing that she, I mean, Sam, we began this conversation about bangs and about the empowerment you're getting to take control of your body. And Meg has done a similar thing in the wake of the Tory Lanez trial that she's become obsessed with her fitness and really celebrating her body and getting back out there. So to have Nikki trying to rip all of that away by coming after her body and her mother, two things she's been so public about battling to reconcile with and also celebrate and find some type of

piece around it just feels so dirty on a level that is not calling Jay-Z a camel when he was like, you know, top of the rap game and had the full agency to respond with all the resources of Roc Nation. So I don't know, it just feels desperate in a way. Yeah. I think, and this is why I said like, you know, patriarchy needs enforcers. Nicki started her career as a rapper at a point where whether it was reality, it was believed that there was only room for one woman.

In hip-hop, right? And so she had to prove her mettle among the men. I'll never forget the first time I heard her verse on Monster, right? Where it was just like she is eating these men alive, right? And I think that was a defining trait of her career. And it makes me sad because...

So many of the qualities of Nicki Minaj at her best, embracing femininity, the pink, I don't love the color contact lenses, but embracing the bubblegum pink Barbie femininity, which obviously is very resonant for other reasons, right? The theatricality, trying on the different voices and personas.

unabashedly embracing and supporting her gay fans at a time when that was not the case. Often rappers who develop that kind of following with distance it even as recently as what five or six years ago, as Ilya Banks like that famous clip of her on the breakfast club and it's kind of launched her as an allegation. Do you make music for gay people? And she's like,

Yeah, you know what I mean? So much of what Nicki did did feel, or at least had the possibility of being an antidote to the misogyny and the sexism that runs up and through hip-hop and that men like Jay-Z's creepy ass and Nas' creepy ass have benefited from. Unfortunately, though the potential was there, it soured.

And now we look at Nicki 10, 15 years later. And my issue with Megan is that it's not just Megan. Name a black female rapper that Nicki seems to get along with.

I'll wait. Yeah. And so at some point you go, I don't think this is actually about Megan. I don't think this is actually about whatever perceived slight. This is your relationship with women, black women and your relationship with patriarchy and a scarcity mindset around black women in the industry. I think what we're seeing here is Nikki performing this idea that there can only be one and that she has to be the one. But what if there can be many?

And I think there totally can be many, and I wish she would understand that or at least accept it eventually. But it's also, I wish she could call Beyonce and have a real conversation and get some guidance on being like, you're a star. You are the sun in a galaxy. You don't need to sunset. Stop talking so much. Stop talking so much. Why do you keep bringing up Iggy Azalea? I haven't talked about Iggy Azalea in years. But yet she's on your album Pink Friday 2 as a diss. What?

Why? Leave her in Australia. Let it go. Let it be. And Nicki just doesn't let it go. Who does Beyonce diss? Nobody. Beyonce's making her money. Anywho, listeners, if you want to hear more beef and catch up on that Jay-Z and Nas beef that we referenced, Nas' verses in the diss track, Ether.

are still pretty remarkable but i was going back over them yesterday girl the homophobia he was making oh i just can't he was making a oh yeah it's all so homophobic yeah because they put a less homophobic diss track from the same time go to lauren hill's lost ones yeah there's okay but again i i just have to reiterate this and and i also want to say you know like

It seems like a lot of the barbs are gay men. The loudest ones, at least. Yeah. And so there's something there for, I think, gay men to interrogate about our own misogyny, by the way. You know, that's worth looking into as well. Because again, like I said, it's like, okay, maybe straight men aren't in the room creating this dynamic. But I'm like, gay men are. And women hating women are. So, like, let's think about this. Ooh, we should start a rap battle with another podcast.

Okay, get out. It's time to wrap. It's time to go. Okay, I'm sorry. It's Wednesday. No, let's go.

We can battle Barbara. The others, there are some people that I would not want to. So, you know, I'm going to sit here. Listeners, let us know your thoughts on this battle and what makes a rap battle good or bad. Also, I'm liking this idea. Email us and tell us who we should podcast rap battle.

Just for shits and giggles. I already know. I'm not going to say it. I'm going to see. Please follow Sam. I'm scared. Yeah, I know what the people are going to say. We would talk. So anyway, goodbye. Email us. Email us. Stay tuned. BRB.

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All right, loves, we're back. And this next conversation was inspired by an article from the New York Times that was published over the weekend. The headline is Black Pastors Pressure Biden to Call for a Ceasefire in Gaza. You know, it was an interesting, you know, kind of weekend read, but also I think authoritative.

obviously has lit up some important conversations. So some details from the article, more than 1,000 black pastors representing hundreds of thousands of congregants nationwide have issued the demand for a ceasefire. They're also calling for the release of hostages by Hamas and the end of Israel's occupation of the West.

The coalition is actually pretty diverse. So, you know, you have more like conservative-leaning Southern Baptists, as well as more progressive non-denominational congregations in the Midwest and Northeast. So, I mean, you know, and I was struck. I mean, a thousand pastors, this represents like a lot of people in a lot of different communities. I'll just read two quotes from different pastors who spoke up. One person, Reverend Frederick D. Haynes,

said, speaking of his congregation. What they are witnessing from the administration in Gaza is a glaring contradiction to what we thought the president and the administration was about. He continued, so when you hear a president say the term, redeem the soul of America, which is one of Biden's kind of refrains, this pastor says, well, this is a stain.

a scar on the soul of america there is something about this that becomes hypocritical and then just one more quote that felt relevant this is from reverend barbara williams skinner and she's part of a network that leads roughly 15 million black churchgoers because the scale of this call is part of what got my attention this isn't just like 10 people on a zoom

Barbara William Skinner said, quote, Black clergy have seen war, militarism, poverty, and racism all connected. Mm-hmm. I want to highlight one more quote, too. There's one more from that piece. So the Reverend Cynthia Hale said of the Palestinian people, quote, We see them as a part of us. They are oppressed people. We are oppressed people. Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's it. And, you know, and I guess kind of to bridge to the bigger conversation. I mean, one, this is significant. This is thousands of Black people, Black church members in particular, but it's not just church members. I am not Christian. I did not go to a church, but so much of what these clergy people were saying has resonated with my own concerns about what's going on in Gaza. And so it's really interesting given the Democrat it

party's reliance on Black voters as a base. And I think it's fair to say that the power brokers often take Black voters for granted. And to see that, oh, we're moving to a really significant impasse. And one of those other clergy people, I'm not going to read the full quote, but he was like, at the very least, it's going to be very difficult to encourage our people to kind of turn out for Biden. Yeah. Well, and this is the thing, as someone who covered an election,

It's always about turnout. So I think Democrats are making the bet. Biden's making the bet. Well, we know that most black voters aren't going to support Donald Trump. So, OK, fine. That might be true. But what you might see happen is black voters just not show up because they don't want to vote for you, Joe Biden. And I think it's a larger issue with younger black voters and older black voters.

every election cycle, it's a struggle to get young people to vote. And that holds true for black voters, too. And I think what Biden's doing here right now with this war in Gaza is he is turning off an entire generation of young voters, particularly black voters and young voters of color. And we should overstate here. I want to overstate here. This is not just a thing where black America doesn't want to see this war happening. Sixty one percent of all America right now

Wants a ceasefire. The majority of the country wants a ceasefire, which makes it even more strange to see Joe Biden and Democrats, a party that says they want the things that real people want, you know, better wages, lower student loan debt, et cetera. You say you want the things real Americans want. Real Americans want this war to end. And you are not at all in lockstep with most of the country.

And why this is so important within the larger context of the 2024 election is this news came a week before the South Carolina primaries are beginning. And the South Carolina primaries are where Biden will be on the ballot. The DNC fought to make South Carolina the first over Iowa because of the black population there.

because of the religious community there. So for the religious community to come together this weekend in a piece in the New York Times and say, this is our demand, this is what we think. Because hours before, it was, look at all these black pastors, they're supporting Biden. And then out of that reporting was...

yes, but here's what they're holding his feet to the fire over. And what was really incredible to see through, if you really read this piece, because I know many people may have a lot of feelings about this because it may not fit exactly with how they're feeling about the situation. What you should know is that these pastors all held interfaith prayers in the wake of the attack Hamas did on Israel and were

really need to do, congregations for Israel because they see Israel as a holy land. Why this has come about now is that they're saying, you know, post a hundred days, there's a lot of brutality happening. And this one group of people that are dying in mass, and we just need a moment to stop that because we're wanting peace on both sides. And that's what these preachers are saying.

Well, and like we should talk more about, you know, this is bigger than just Biden as the figurehead of the Democratic Party being out of step with black America and most America on Palestine and Israel. He isn't alone. Nancy Pelosi.

And John Fetterman have also been out here showing their ass on this issue as well, right? Right. Yeah, I mean, here's a quote from former Speaker Pelosi over the weekend on CNN, and she's speaking about protesters in general. She was not talking about the black group. She meant

She may be crazy, but she ain't that crazy. That would be very clear. But she was speaking about the protesters. She said, quote, for them to call for a ceasefire is Mr. Putin's message. Make no mistake, this is directly connected to what he would like to see. There's another article in the New York Times where former Speaker Pelosi is asking the FBI to investigate protesters calling for a ceasefire. And as both of you have pointed out- Wow.

It's actually much of the world is calling for ceasefire and much of the country. And here's the thing, I'm not trying to turn a war, a hostage situation and a genocide into a what this means for Democrats into it. But to me, it just elucidates just some real pain points.

In our democracy, for example, one of the largest Palestinian communities in our country is in Dearborn, Michigan. And to think about what it must mean and what it must feel like to be a part of the Palestinian American community, to have voted for Biden.

And to know, frankly, how important the state of Michigan is, if you want to get into the electoral count and all that kind of stuff, to literally feel disenfranchised as family members, community members, loved ones are being killed, are being wiped off the face of the earth, and then kind of being mocked.

by liberals who say they have your best interest at heart. I think to say to someone who's being directly impacted by it, like, Biden is going to protect us from Trump. Don't you want to fight against fascism? I'm like, they're dealing with fascism. This is not an abstract debate for Palestinian people. And so I don't know. I think we're just seeing the way in which, whether I'm talking about Palestinian voters or Black clergy people, Black people in South Carolina, I just feel...

This has been coming for some time, but the sense that a lot of voters of color are taken advantage of or rather taken for granted. And the moment we say, wait a minute,

Actually, we do see the dots connecting. If I care about poverty and anti-racism, and I see that you're spending billions of dollars to fund this war, but you're not able to fund primary education, all these other important issues, yeah, that's something I care about. Suddenly, the wisdom and intelligence of voters of color is thrown out the window. Yeah. What I find particularly insulting to people when they talk about it

is the way in which Joe Biden would try to like talk out of both sides of his and his White House's mouth. On the one hand, they'll say, well, we of course want this violence to end. Of course we support, you know, bringing down this drama and, you know, we want less violence.

Yet, America could kind of start to nip this thing in the bud tomorrow if they just stopped giving Israel money for weapons. America's still doing it. And so it's like on top of Joe Biden being out of step with the majority of Americans at this point over Gaza and Israel, he's

He's also pretending to not have as much power as he actually has. And I find that insulting. Don't play me, Joe. Don't play me. And I also, I think we all can see what's going on in terms of like,

the wake of what happened. And, you know, there has not been, in my opinion, a very clear rationale given on why the brutality has to keep increasing, increasing. Because if you look at all the polls, Hamas is more popular than they've been in a long time in the West Bank. People are looking to this group and this is the exact opposite of what we want

This is not taking away Hamas. The network is changing. It's shifting. And this tension is just continuing. So I think what these clergy members are saying is, you know, this brutal bombing, blanket bombing of everybody, it's actually making things worse. And that's why I think we've seen this shift. So I think people listening to this episode very closely, it's just been incredible to see these preachers shift their position because they're like, this isn't working. Sorry. I mean, to take it

Back to 2018 elections, that's when we had the kind of white liberal, thank you, black women. Thank you, black women, for saving us in midterms. That dynamic, which didn't start then. Don't have a single black woman's phone number in their phone. Didn't end then. That phenomenon, it's one, obviously, so racist and disrespectful, but it's also like, to your point, Sam, about...

turnout being so essential, what are we asking of black voters, particularly in the South? Like, I have seen too much video footage of elderly black people waiting in lines in states like Georgia on the edge of literal infamy.

because they've been standing outside without water, waiting to vote. And so the fact that it's not just turnout, but it's also like, what are we asking of voters who are already disenfranchised, who've had to deal with so much election interference? These are the voters who have to get out and put their necks on the line. And so I actually don't think it's like a light matter for a black voter in these disenfranchised situations.

states to decide if they're going to put up with it. Is it worth it to stick my neck out and to be out there and to deal with the harassment and humiliation that come from these fucking fascists to vote for Democratic leaders who ignore us as soon as the votes are tallied?

not just ignore, but think that just doing a little bit over there is enough. I think a lot of folks in Joe Biden's White House think that their movement on student loan debt forgiveness is enough, particularly because it disproportionately affects and benefits black people. That's not enough. That's the start.

And I want politicians to look at voters and voting blocks like black voters and not see them as one issue voters or a monolith, but say these are people who have several different kinds of needs that are interconnected.

And I'm not seeing that from the Biden White House right now. I think their recipe is say what you got to say about Israel, but kind of try to ignore that and play up all the other stuff. And that should be enough. It's not. You got to talk about all of it and you have to talk about it quickly because people just won't show up for you. They don't have to show up for you. Yeah. Again, we can't understate in the meantime.

you know, obviously the election and all this is going on, thousands and thousands of people have been killed. And I was watching like a disability rights activist who had just got back from Gaza. And she was like, this is a mass disabling event. She was like, I think she said for every one child that's been killed, three children have been disabled. The implications and the tragedy of this can't be understated. And so, I mean, I would just hope just based on

your humanity, you would want to take this crisis more seriously. But sure, let's talk about electability too, if that works for you. We're going to take a break there. Super chill episode of Fight Shop this week. Oh my gosh. Weaponized pink, darling. Anyway, don't go away. We'll be right back.

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All right, listeners, we're back. And before we end the show, we'd each like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week, especially such a chaotic week for all of us. So to get us going, I want to go with Saeed Jones. So, you know, obviously with both of our segments, thinking about the ways in which, you know, we share multiple identities, race, gender, sex, class, even religion has kind of come to bear on this. So I was trying to think of a poem that could somehow give me wisdom as we're dealing with this. And of course, it led me back to Audre Lorde.

This poem is titled Who Said It Was Simple? And I had to look it up. Netix used to be a fast food chain. I have not heard about this, but she wrote this poem in or published it in 1972. So I think it was a fast food restaurant chain that was still around at the time. Okay. Who said it was simple? There are so many roots to the tree of anger that sometimes the branches shatter before they bear.

Sitting in netics, the women rally before they march, discussing the problematic girls they hire to make them free. An almost white counterman passes, awaiting brother to serve them first. And the ladies neither notice nor reject the slighter pleasures of their slavery. But I, who am bound by my mirror as well as my bed, see causes in color as well as sex."

and sit here wondering which me will survive all these liberations.

I love that. There's just such wisdom here and just the which me will survive all these liberations, which is to say we don't get to choose. I'm sorry. It is terribly inconvenient that black voters also care about things like war or poverty, right? That we have these other nuances. And I think as well as the misogyny that we were talking about in hip hop and music. Unfortunately, everything's not

cookie cutter we care about more things than is often convenient for the people who want to control us but at the end of the day all of me has to survive these liberations and so I'm going to care about all of the liberations and I think that's what she was asking of us a word there you go Sam what about you

I'm going to bring back an oldie but a goodie because I was talking about this movie on another podcast last week. I'm not sure when the episode comes out, but I was on a movie podcast called You Are Good, breaking down and looking back at the movie Brokeback Mountain. Oh. You know I've never seen it? Should I watch it for the first time? You've never seen it? I was like, this is straight people's business. I was pretty radical at this point when it came to movie watching.

I will tell you all the story at some point, but Brokeback Mountain was how I started to come out to my mother. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. But, you know, everything everyone says about this film is right. It's gorgeous. Directed by Ang Lee, genius director. Cinematic views of these landscapes. Heath Ledger is delivering one of the most subdued yet strong performances of the last quarter century.

And really what makes the movie sing for me are the performances from the women in the film, a young Anne Hathaway and a young Michelle Williams. They don't get nearly enough screen time, but when they're there, it is visceral. There's a scene towards the end where Michelle Williams' character is at the kitchen sink, quietly whispering, reading Heath Ledger, The Riot Act. And you're like, oh my God.

This is genius. This is brilliant. She deserves all the flowers. Same for Anne Hathaway. So yeah, that's my pick. Brokeback Mountain is definitely a film from a different era. It moves very slowly. There are moments of prolonged silence. There isn't that much music, even though I remember the music from the film. It makes you stop and pay attention, and it's very quiet and deliberate. Go see it. Also, never forget...

this film was robbed of its best picture Oscar because that's the year that Crash won oh no oh that's so embarrassing remember that? that's so embarrassing watch Brokeback Mountain it's good

It's great. And it's also based off a short story, if you want to read the story first. Yeah. All right. So mine, to close us out, I spent my fever dreams with Sofia Vergara on Netflix with her new show, limited series, Griselda, which is incredible. And I won't ruin it for you, but it's about Griselda Blanco, the very famous drug cartel. Running that yayo. It's amazing. And it's really Sofia fighting for her life to remind us that she is an actor of the highest regard. And it's just really...

It's wonderful. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. Okay. I feel bad that she feels the need to remind us. I've always thought she was great. So I have begun watching it, Zach, based on your recommendation. And they come in hot. I love it. It starts on fire. It's so good. It's so good. Okay, Sophia. All right. Well, that's what we're feeling this week. What about you? Let us know by emailing us at vibecheckatstisher.com.

Listeners, thank you so much for checking out this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, make sure to follow this show on your favorite podcast listening platform. Make sure to subscribe to this show on Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. And most importantly, IRL.com.

Tell a friend about the show. It works. Get up in their face. Let them smell your breath while you say listen to Vibe Check. Take a mint first. Take a mint first. But this is true. It's like, listen, we're in the last stretch of January. So you got to get your ready. What do you mean? You're not listening to Vibe Check?

During Black History Month? You gotta practice. Practice. Yes. A huge thank you to our producers Chantel Holder, engineer Sam Kiefer, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also special thanks to our executive producers Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And again, we want to hear from you. Don't forget you can always email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram at Zach Staff at

Sam Sanders and at the ferocity use the hashtag five check pod check pod all right loves stay tuned for a very special episode of hey sis our series starts off next week on Monday but until then bye Stitcher

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