Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hey from separate rooms. Guys, we are recording in the same building at Tessa's house for the first time ever in this location, but from different rooms on Zoom. And you know that it's hard for us not to be together. It's really, it's sad. Even being in the same space, but having walls separating us is, it's depressing. It is depressing. We've been having some technical difficulties where we got some beautiful mics. We just don't know anything about technology.
I mean, I feel like you are the tech queen of this podcast, though. I've never had that title before, and it's, like, scaring me every time you say it. I literally don't even know how to, like, restart my computer, so there has to be one of us that can actually... Do a little something. Usually we're like, no, Tessa's boyfriend's very smart.
You know, this was a day that we had to figure it out ourselves. And this is the, I think it was the best solution we could have come up with. I agree. And we talk more about it. I'm sure you want to hear all about our tech troubles on our Patreon. So join to hear more. We just did a parent trap recap. It's so true. It's like when people talk about traffic and like, I think that everyone really cares. And then you're like, I don't give a shit. No one cares at all.
You get to a party and you're like, oh my God. Okay. So this happened and this person, it's just like, shut up. It's like glazed over. And here we are doing that to you guys, but hey, we have family. So we'll switch. We'll switch it up a little bit. Switch the mood. It will feel even better when we can record together now that we've been through all this. I know. You just get stronger with these kind of things in your relationship and in your business. It's true. It's true.
It's true. But today we've got a gorgeous lambie for you guys. We have a fun lambie. I don't know about all of you, but I have been watching on Amazon, the Amazon original series, A League of Their Own.
I did start one episode. What did you think? I think it's going to take me a minute to sit into it. I'm sorry. I love the original movie so much. And I haven't even finished the first episode. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think at the beginning it feels very theatrical and like it does feel cheesy. And then I think you have to think of it as like a completely different story.
take on what happened because that's what it is. The series ends up being very gay and it basically just talks about all of them hooking up with each other, which the movie never mentions. No, and we love that. And of course, like I'm sure that was happening to you. I think what's bothering me is the modern way that it, which is like, I usually think that's so cool, but whatever. I don't know. I'll sit into it. I'll say give it
three and then if you still hate it but like I did warm up to it I think maybe after the second one I was like I love love it and I just I think the story is just so amazing of like I agree it just makes me emotional like and the movie does too of just like all these women have had the same dreams as thousands and millions of men have had about playing sports and getting to play it professionally and having people watch them and like they all get it like they're in disbelief that they get
to experience it in their lifetime. It's such a crazy time and I can't believe it actually happened. I feel like this subject has been on our list to cover for like since we started this podcast. Yes. And like, I'm glad I think once we started doing the Lambies, I was like, oh, that's perfect. It's like a whole episode on it. There's honestly just not that much information, which is kind of representative of the
Of these women and the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League, which is obviously what we're going to be talking about today. But it's just as like, it gives me chills. Even when I was researching, chills the entire time. Well, and like you recently sent me a picture of there's now a women's soccer league in Tennessee for older women who were not allowed to play when they were younger. Yeah.
I mean, it's nice to have good news every once in a while, you know? It really is. And hey, it's nice that women can do things in their 70s that they weren't allowed to do in their 20s. That's crazy. So, good God. Better late than never, I guess. Yeah, that's true. That could be like us in our 70s getting our rights back.
giving back to us. One can only hope just to have some basic reproductive rights would be nice. Exactly. Like past the, past the prime, but still be like, Hey, thanks for switching it up. Exactly. We'll take anything. At least these women in Tennessee can play soccer now. Oh yeah. We'll post it on, on our story. It was so, so tender. But yeah, let's, uh,
Batter up. Batter up. Thank you. Thank you so much. I just did a little, a little gesture. We followed each other on that one. She knew what I needed. Um, but yeah, let's batter up and talk about the A-A-G-P-B-L. The All American Girls Professional Baseball League. Very long title. I know. I was like, let's just call it the baseball league moving forward. Okay. And do you think it's interesting? Wait, is the, for men, is it called the All American Boys League?
professional baseball league I don't know what the baseball league is like I just know the MLB now which is the major league baseball right because it's interesting that's not like the all-american women's professional baseball league it's girls it feels very like there is an instructor at this workout studio that I go to and he constantly calls women girls and it really bothers me no he's not he's American where is this where is that Santa Monica
It's training mate. Oh, yeah. I was like, is he Australian? Someone's like, why would you ask that? It's because this one workout studio in LA has mainly Australian workout instructors. Yes, that's like where it started. Yeah, it bothers me. It feels gross to be called a girl when you are like...
And like some of it is not so offensive. You're like, I went out with this girl. Like it is what it is. Like we're used to that being, but sometimes it hits different when someone calls you a girl. That surf instructor called us a girl, the misogynistic surf instructor. Oh my God. He did. He kept being like, good job, girl. Yeah. I mean, and it's usually this very particular type of man who does that. And it's also don't treat us like we're 16. But a lot of men want to treat you that way. Yeah. Yeah.
It's a weird power thing. Yeah, it is. It's very strange. And I'm sure for our male listeners, it's not all men. No, not all men. But there is a type. And we have experienced it. And we all know them. We're all nodding along. Exactly. But anyway, so it is called the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League.
So this was the first recorded professional women's baseball league. But women had been playing baseball for quite some time, not softball, baseball. Originally started at Vassar College in 1866. There was the first known baseball team there. For women wearing pants, I just imagine them in like huge skirts, like the hoop skirts, like running to first base.
with the corset like about to faint at every second of the game exactly but I guess you could slide better because it's so much coverage but well we'll get into the outfits because we will it's very very upsetting when you find out why they had to wear those god um but this league was founded by Philip K Ringley um and he was the owner of it from 1943 to 1954.
Wow. It went on for longer than I thought. I know. So I, yeah, a lot of, I, I found out so much during the research because I truly thought that this was like one year. It was just like a couple teams all in the same city, but it was so much bigger than that. Yeah. Um, there were 10 teams throughout the Midwest and over 60 women played. Okay. So about six per team. I think 60 women, um,
And on each team. Okay. Wow. Big teams. Because I think like even in a league of their own, like they say these huge houses and like they like, um, like sorority houses. Kind of. Yeah. So I think they would just like,
Certain weeks, they'd bring in some. Like, I think it was like this. Fun. I know. It truly seemed so fun in like those Victorian houses that they'd stand. Stunning. We'll get into like that kind of the party life because it's crazy. In 1948, the league attendance peaked at over 900,000 spectators, which I also was shocked by because I thought like no one went to these games. I thought so too. Yeah.
But people did. And obviously at this time is the entry of the U.S. in World War II. So the owners of all of these athletic leagues were like, fuck, is baseball going to die? Will people remember it when the men get back? Like, how can we still make money if possible? I guess like I love football so much. But if I'm like off fighting World War II, I like don't feel like I'm worrying if baseball is going to be around.
You know what I'm saying? God, that would be... I want to get into that with someone. But maybe you have to go to a different place. Exactly. You have to have distraction. There's so much darkness going on in the world. We need baseball. Baseball's my least favorite sport, by the way. It's the all-American sport, Claire. Mm-hmm.
Um, so obviously this was a tough time in the country, but it was also like the Rosie the Riveter time. So there was a big, you know, the symbolic wave happening of women taking over men's jobs and them doing the work for themselves. And so that translated into sports. Yeah.
But obviously, there's an economic crisis at this point. So it's not like the owners of these leagues are like, all right, we're gonna, you know, travel all over the country and do this. So they were like, we have to keep it contained because gas is so expensive. Oh, I'd hear that. Like, I mean, God, we know it now, don't we? We sure do. It's like, that's why we're recording our homes now, not driving over. It's too much. Too much. Cost $100. God, it's true.
No, no, no. We're just trying to mix it up, guys. Trying to get a little bit more comfy in our home. But also, it is expensive. It is expensive. So they were like, okay, let's keep it central. Let's just have teams in the Midwest and let's see how it goes. So they held tryouts in Chicago at the Ringley Field.
That's big time. It is big time. 200 women were invited to come out based on softball scouts. And then the final, why is it got 60? I'm like, now I'm like, that doesn't make sense. So 60 were chosen. Maybe, maybe it was for each team. Maybe. Yeah.
Right. Cause six, I mean, football teams are huge. I think you need to have backups. That is true. That is mostly guys. We'll clarify later. We will clarify. Um,
One of the athletes, Bonnie, they called her real name was Mary Baker, remembers that it was a very cold and ugly and windy day at the tryouts, but I loved it anyway. All of the girls loved it. They were being offered a chance to get paid for something they loved to do. The salaries themselves were unbelievable. The league offered salaries ranging from 55 to 150 a week.
Done. And it's time for the Claire Q later. I'm so proud at this. So in 2022, it would be 705 to 1330 a week. Okay.
But they did say that the salary was like, that was amazing to them because at the time the average salary was $40 a week. Oh my God. Oh my God. They truly, I think, felt like superstars and they felt like celebrities. And also like a lot of these women probably...
Maybe some were housewives. Maybe some were moms. Some may have worked, but some probably didn't work. And I mean, what we see today still, women get paid less than men do anyway. So that is like a big chunk of change. Exactly. Like a lot of shock, like shock of what's going on in the world. Your husband's gone. You're now the one that's making money. And then you're also like a star of a- That's crazy. Of a baseball team. Like it just must have been so, like a lot of emotions there. Yeah. And I think that's why it always just makes me like, ah.
Fun fact. If anyone watches Vanderpump Rules, Sheena Shea's grandma was a Rockford Peach. Really? Yes. She's talked about that on the show. I just think that's crazy. Oh my God, that is crazy. I know. Wild. Wild. It's a little trivia fact. Damn. Um...
the in a league of their own starring gina davis um she plays dotty and that was based on a real woman which is different from the amazon series because they don't um it's not like autobiographical in the series but the movie is it's like based on the true story i don't know the movie was more autobiographical dotty um i guess yeah because then she what was her sister's name kit kit her kid sister little one wow she was always living in the shadows of dotty
Just like Jessica and Ashley. Living in the shadows. Someone else's dream. That's the song of the week. You guys know, you know. It is. It is.
Shadows by Ashley Simpson. Honestly, great album. Underrated album. A phenomenal album. Truly. We will feature it. But Dottie says she remembers it just so vividly and it was such a special time. She says, I was 14 years old and had been raised on a small farm. The trials were very awe-inspiring and they kept us busy. We stayed at the Belmont Hotel not far from Ringley Field. I was a little bit of a kid
Stop. I have chills. I have chills too. Also, she was 14.
14 she was so young so maybe that's why it was called girls yeah maybe they actually were girls were like bitching about it yeah yeah they're actually like all children yeah wow I mean maybe it ranged from like I don't know I mean I guess that was the I mean 14 seems young but I guess that's when so young the boys probably started playing yeah that's true
That's true. So, yeah, it seemed to be a beautiful time. It was time of being like, damn, I am now following my dreams. However, it was following the dreams for white women since it was very segregated, which the show touches a lot upon and the movie doesn't, which I do appreciate that about the show. It follows this one black woman who wants to play so badly for the team. Yeah.
I really like that storyline on the series. Me too, because obviously this happened. And of course, A League of Their Own was in the 90s. They didn't even touch that. But yeah, I can imagine that this came up. Yeah. So no black women could try it. No one besides...
white women could try out. And also they really, um, favored attractive, attractive white women. Um, of course, it's like, who cares if you're just playing ball? Yeah. So they, um, during spring training, the girls were required to attend Helena Rubinston's evening charm school classes. I forgot about this in the movie that for baseball.
For baseball, the proper etiquette for every situation was taught, every aspect of personal hygiene, mannerisms, and dress code. Again, like for baseball. Mannerisms? For what? Great question, Claire. So let's talk about these uniforms that they had to wear. Okay.
So this is actually really funny. It's not funny. I mean, it's just you have to laugh because it's just so insane. In an effort to make each player as physically attractive as possible. Oh, my God. Each received a beauty kit and instructions on how to use it. And so they were like, here, go. And we're just like, get out. And they had to wear red lipstick at all times when they were playing and when they were seen in public. Oh, my God. I'm just imagining the sweat and.
And like it would just get everywhere. Like now when I wear red lipstick out, it's all over my face. I can't imagine if I was playing sports. And like imagine having like something on your face and you like go, you know, like lipstick. You must look like the Joker. The Joker. Or Dorinda Medley in Cartagena. If you know, you know. That is horrifying.
They have to wear makeup. They have to like, they're taught how to do their hair. Um, you also could not have short hair. And there was, um, an, uh, teammate Josephine DeAngelo who was fired for cutting her hair short. How short are we talking? Um,
I mean, I think this was the time, right, where it was like... Well, it's interesting because this was a time when women had to be wearing like... Like Rosie the Riveter represents like women starting to wear pants for the first time, right? Yeah. And like work in the factories. They had to have their hair up. But I think if you wanted to be like... Like the movie star is in the 40s, like Veronica Lake. It's like the wavy long hair. Oh, that is true. It wasn't the time yet. Yeah. And also I think...
the people creating this league was like they were very focused on like the escapism of like men can come watch like what the woman was supposed to be and like this whole feminine it's sad because I want this to be for the women which it is like when they got to play but at the same time it's for the male gaze exactly I mean that's really they were like no one's gonna want to come see a girl play sport but you can see her looking like in a little short I mean you can see her looking hot which is just like crazy and
So they also just had a very strict schedule. They weren't allowed to smoke or drink in public. Oh, in public. Everyone and their dog smoked back then. I mean, true. And also, how could you not drink at this time? Like what a terrifying time to be alive and to be worrying about
Your husband's overseas. And like, it's just, it's, it's so fucked up. You need it. You need a stiff drink at the end of the day. You really do. But yeah, they couldn't be seen doing that. They couldn't be seen wearing pants in public. They had chaperones at all of these houses for the girls, much like a, like a sorority, like a house mom. Yeah.
Who was in charge of everything from like making sure that they were on time to setting them up on dates if there was an eligible bachelor who approached her to be like, can I take this hot one out? I saw her on the field today. And then she would have to go on the date with them. What?
is crazy. It's like a PR like scan. Like the whole thing is just a fake tabloid. Like that is crazy. I mean, I guess it kind of makes sense for the 14 year olds, but I can't imagine they were all 14. No, like I think there's some like grown women that there were crazy that they were like, it's also a dating service. Yeah. Could you say no? It's really gross. Um,
I doubt you could say no. It doesn't seem like these women had very much freedom. That's crazy. I mean, they'd be fired if they, you know, change their hair, their hairstyle. Like that's crazy. It was a very restrictive and probably toxic environment. They still got to play, but they still got to play. So I think it was probably like the conversation was like, we sacrifice this so we can do finally what we love. And like, yeah, isn't that kind of being a woman in a lot of ways? No kidding. Like you got to swallow some pride to like,
You know, I don't know the expression. I don't know. No, I like what you're saying though. But anyway, back to the uniforms. So if you have seen the movie, I feel it. Sorry for the harsh transitions guys. It's one of those days. It really is.
Stick it to the maniosis. Stick it to the man. So the uniforms worn by the female ballplayers consisted of a belted short sleeve tunic dress with a slight flare of the skirt. Rules stated that skirts were to be worn no more than six inches above the knee. Okay. God, this must have been so uncomfortable. But the regulation was most often ignored in order to facilitate running and fielding. So they needed it to be shorter for running? Yeah.
I think, yeah, because they would say that it would get in the way, especially if they were doing like pushups. That would be so annoying. I mean, it was just, yeah. Listen, the uniforms are cute. They are, but for baseball and when they're forced upon them,
Exactly. Hey, you know that everyone this year for Halloween will be in those uniforms. But there are just like interesting things I found out. Like when they first in the first season, the league played a game that was a hybrid of baseball and football because they still were like, we don't know if like the girls should really be playing baseball. They're going to play football too. Yeah.
Wait, did I say football? Yeah, I think. I meant to say hi for the baseball and softball. But they give them more than your face. What does that look like? You're like, oh shit. They were creating a whole new sport.
Oh my God. No, I'm so sorry. Baseball and softball. So obviously, I mean, I actually really don't know anything about sports, but I guess the ball was 12 inches in circumference, which is the size of a regular softball. Bigger than baseballs are. Yeah. Baseballs are nine to like nine and a half inches. The pitcher's mound was only 40 feet from home plate, even closer than regulation softball and much closer than in baseball distance of 60 feet. So it just everything about this, like the pitchers through underhand windmill, like in softball,
everything really represents like you know when like you're playing as a kid and the guys are like move in move in boys come on yes just move in what's that from when that like hot guy in high school that movie
Oh, Princess Diaries. Oh, right. Yeah. When she's like out in the field and he's trying to be a dick. We should recap that movie too. God, we really should. We will. We will. So yeah, everything was just very like, you know, play easy on the girls. Like just, you know, stand there and look pretty. Yeah. But when they started like...
having something to prove from themselves, then people were like, oh shit. And so then they were like, okay, we let's just have them play baseball. That's what they want to do. And they were really good at it. So, Hey, let them, um, more power to them.
So let's see. So yeah, the peak attendance of this was in 1948 when all 10 teams attracted 900,000 fans. The Rockford Peaches, which we love the Rockford Peaches, they won the most league championships with four.
Which they were literally at this point like celebrities. They said they were getting fan mail. That's crazy. They said that they would get some from boys too. I love that. Like I was hesitant to watch and then I realized like you're a ball player. You are one of me and I am one of you. Even if you are a chick. Yeah. Like I'm sure some of these I mean like hey I would love to read what those said. Me too. Maybe they're in a museum somewhere.
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Basically, they had kind of like, I would say like 15 minutes of fame, like this, the league in as a whole, because then they just like they did have success and people were into them. But then they started having issues with like who was like switching over owners and just realizing that the costs were probably a bit more than like what they could actually be making like serious revenue off of.
And I think there was also this thing of like people were stressed out and like it was just a really bad time in this country that a lot of people were like, I don't know if I want to go watch, like even like watch a game right now. Like some people were like, let me get, yeah, like the more, like the morale, the country's morale was just very low. And then the lead became a for-profit organization under the ownership of Arthur Mayeroff and his firm. And they basically just like fucked it all up.
So yeah, it just was like, it wasn't even this dramatic ending. They just couldn't figure out an owner and then it slowly kind of like dissipated. Fizzled out and then the war ended probably. Yep. And then also this is the during the time of when people could start watching TV in their homes. Yes. TV changed everything. TV changed everything. And so then they were like, no, I'm just going to sit here and not go travel and like sit out in the heat and...
And watch this. I mean, it is nice not to be in the heat sometimes, but it does make me sad that it like prevents us from being outside. And like, I love watching TV, but that is true. Hey, same, same. Um, crazy how it changed everything. I know.
But most like inventions do that, right? Like even like Instagram, it's like, oh, I can't imagine life without Instagram. But it's crazy. We didn't used to have to think we had a document like a moment. Everything. Yeah, I know. I think about that often. I spiral about it. Me too. Because I'm like, but I want to take. I know. But why do I think I need to? And do I want to to share what I like because I like to share and like it's almost creative or am I doing it because of the pressure? Wow. It's like the most tangent episode ever.
Thank you guys for sticking with us. Oh man, this is what happens when you hit a pin before you record. It is so true. And we're going to, we're going to admit it because I think you guys were wondering. Yeah, you knew. You knew. Everyone's wondering. Um, so the all American girls professional baseball league was unable to continue in 1955. And honestly, it's history and its significance were forgotten by most baseball, by, by, by baseball historians. Like people just like, didn't talk about it for a really long time. Um,
And in 1980, former pitcher June Pepa launched a newsletter to get in touch with friends, teammates, and opponents that resulted in the league's first reunion in Chicago in 1982. They have that scene at the end of the movie where they're all being reunited. They're like all older women. Yeah.
I have chills again. I can't imagine what that must be like, like where your lives had gone. I know. I know. And just like, almost like, was it real? Yeah. Or was it a fever dream? Yeah. Like, like how, like life was so good for that short amount of time. And then like we want, then they all wanted to keep going. I'm sure. And they'd like changed history. And how could you ever go back to your normal life after having something like that? Truly. Yeah. So then finally,
There were a handful that got inducted into the National Women's Baseball Hall of Fame. And I think it shows that in the movie. Yeah, I think Dottie did. Yeah, Dottie did. June did. We mentioned Arlene Johnson, Sophia Cures, Pepper, Pepper Pear. What a name, Pepper Pear. Pepper Pear? Did they name her that? Is that for real? Pepper Pear? Pepper Pear?
I guess so. Jean Fott, Dorothy Kamenchuk, Joanne Winter, Dorothy Dottie, Faye Dancer, and Claire Shalais. They all got inducted. A fellow Claire. What's her name? Faye what? Faye Dancer. Faye Dancer. These names are wild. I'm like, am I going to name my daughter after one of these? Faye Dancer. Pepper Bear. And Pepper Bear. They sound like children's book characters. I mean, they really do. Yeah.
And so, I mean, I'm just happy that they got to be inducted in that, like, obviously the movie in the 90s and the series now, which does... I mean, it is about baseball, but it's a lot about their relationships, which, like, I couldn't find much on, like, what was really happening. Yeah, what was... I mean, everybody's a little gay. But everyone's a little gay, especially if you have 60 women in a house, like, you know, and...
Yeah. And if you're lonely and like literally the show is just like a hookup after hookup after a hookup. And we're here for that. I imagine there must have been some of that to some extent. Yeah. Right. Like, yeah. I mean, there's yeah. Like also a trivia thing again is that this is the highest grossing baseball movie ever is a league of their own. Is it really? Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Like I would truly encourage everyone to go watch it.
to watch the series. I'm going to give it more of a shot. Yeah. I think you should. I think just like try to not think of the movie. I know that's really hard. It is hard, but I will try. And I love Abby Jacobson. She's really, yeah. There's so many good cameos. Um, uh, Rosie O'Donnell makes a cameo and she's in the original and like, it just feels like they give it like little hints of being like, we know why we're like, we're making this. Yeah. And it's like an homage. It is. It really is. Um,
But yeah, everyone should go watch it. It's like girl power all the way. We love that. And we really do. But yeah, I mean, that's the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League. I love it so much. Are any of the women still alive? I think there's one woman who just came out publicly for the first time who's in her 90s.
What? I need to sit down and talk to her. Truly. I think she is still alive, but I think a lot of the other ones have. I mean, it was, you know. It was a long time ago. It was a long time ago. I mean, if they were like teenagers in the 40s. Yeah. I mean, they probably were all. Yeah. We don't want to say the age because we don't want to be wrong. You guys know, right? We all know. Yeah, they're old now. We all know the number in our head. Wow. Oh, man. I just good for them. I love a pioneer. Yeah.
We love a pioneer and you know, yeah, I'm just glad that they're getting like a little bit more conversation and it's such a, such a lovely story. It's a lovely time. It's an important part of history. I know. And then I wonder like what some of their husbands said, like when they got back, like if some of them were mad that they did it. Like, did they know that they were going to do it? Well, on the show and I think in the movie too, right? There's a couple of characters that have like issues with
the men the men at war because they're like what the fuck yeah who are you I don't recognize this part of you and it's like maybe that's who they've been all along and I think that's true they've just were finally given the opportunity to be themselves yeah yeah you heard it here first you heard it here
Wow. What a day. That's really, what a day. I know. I just feel, I do feel a little emotionally exhausted from the, from the technical issues. It's hard to like not take it, take it to heart. It's really hard not to take it personally. I agree. And to like calm down. Like I've just felt like, cause yeah, Claire and I have a big week next week. And so I think we're just like, fuck, like, is this going to, but it's going to be fine. Yeah. And you guys will always, we'll always be with you. And this is nice for traveling that we know now.
Yeah. It's great. It is great. And like, even if there's a busy day, we're like, we just have to do this. Like it's perfect at night for like 30 minutes. You know, it's great. Now we love it. Now we love it. Now actually this is the best, best time I've ever had. Oh man. Well, I loved it. I think that was fascinating. I can't wait to watch. I will watch the show more. Thank you. Thank you. But I get it. Like, it's like how you feel with the little women. Exactly. Exactly. And I really do. Yeah.
And if you guys, you guys know what we're talking about. If you listen to previous episodes. Exactly. If you're a true Ramy. Exactly. And check out if you're a true Ramy, also join our Patreon. Please do. We have so many, so many fun episodes coming out. I'm just like, we get deep. We cry. We've cried twice now, I think. Yeah. Like we're really trying to like stick to our word about putting in those more intense, vulnerable, like getting to know you episodes. Yeah. So please sign up.
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