Abortion is never going anywhere despite Roe V. Wade Reversal
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Welcome back, everybody, to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really, really wanted to. Over there is Claire Donald. And over there is Tess Valomo. I like when we mix it up. I know, me too, me too. And that was like a stunning intro. Much better than last week's when I lost my mind. You know, there's times where it's clean and crisp, and there's times where we're just too high to know where we are. And that's art. Yeah.

And that is the variety of life. It's true. And you just have to roll with the punches. Gorgeous. Thank you. How are you doing, Tess? I'm okay. It's been a busy month. It's crazy, guys. The world is back. You know, a lot's going on.

Personally, in this country. So I just think, you know, it's good to check in with each other. Yeah, no kidding. It's good to check in on your women in your life right now. Most important people. But how the hell are you? I'm fine. Your voice goes like 10 active. A little high pitched. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think I'm in the same boat. Like...

It's a lot going on, but lucky to have the people around me that I do. And that is the truth. That is the truth. And Claire and I are going to our friend's wedding. Yes. Two of our good friends are getting married. Shout out to Hannah and Jordi. Congratulations. Really supportive Rammies as well. That's right. We're so excited to see you two get hitched. And it's like our first time all kind of going to like an adult wedding together. It feels like...

Episode of a TV show? Doesn't it? I can't wait to be on the dance floor. However, it will be 105 degrees. Sure will. Shall. We'll see who passes out first. Oh, that's a fun game. Just please don't let it be. Probably me. Yeah, Hannah or Jordi, as long as it's not one of you two. Oh, God, yeah, we would. We would never even put that out in the universe. No, no, no, no. Well, I just did, but I take it back. Yeah. So we're excited, but you know, you can be excited and you can also be very disturbed and...

And very anxious at the same time. And both things can't be true. As the Queen, Casey Musgraves, has said, happy and sad at the same time. And that has never been so applicable. It's the current state of our world. And that's why, you know, Claire and I posted on our story last week that we were getting some questions about if we were going to do Roe v. Wade. And we were just like, of course, we are going to do it. Like, there was no... No question. No option not to talk about it. And obviously...

This is a history podcast. I wanted to do it first season. And then I want to admit that I felt hesitant to do it. 100%. It was always, especially you, I feel like, kept being like, I think we should do it, but I don't know. Like, it was definitely something that I think that you've always been passionate about talking about. Yes, I have. I think I was like, but, you know, our podcast is...

a little bit lighter and funny. And it's like, once again, every, like we can try to educate ourselves and our listeners in a way that is still inviting. And there's humor, even in the darkest of times, you have to find it and you have to find it. I would never want to shut ourselves off from like that space and, and,

especially the political climate. Like I think it's our duty and I think it's, you know, I hope people will listen to this episode and take something away from it that they didn't know. I 100% agree. And, you know, Tess and I have talked about this before that like we are all learning together. We're all in this together. That's why we have this podcast to, yeah, just be in it together. So I hope that you guys feel an alliance with us and that we can have fun while also learning and being inspired and, you know,

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, you know, like you were saying before we started recording, like even saying the word abortion, like a lot of times someone puts an asterisk in it and a lot of times people will use other words and it's, you know, you can't type it on. I think you...

At one point, you couldn't type it on Instagram without putting like an asterisk. What? I need to double check that. But I've read something about it. And, you know, there's a lot of information out there right now. But I'm almost positive that like. Guys, that's insane. It's always the thing of being like, well, when women get abortion. Yes. And like when. Yeah. And it's like, you know what? You know, I'm reading this book right now called Shout Your Abortion. And like that was a huge also influence to like do this episode. Yeah.

And, you know, I mean, like, here we go. Like, here we go. What are we talking about today? Roe v. Wade. What? Roe v. Wade. Just start chanting. Roe v. Wade. One in Pirate Studios now. We're going to do a little March discount code. Ram20 at checkout at pirate.com. Don't forget, you could be chanting Roe v. Wade yourself right now if you wanted.

But what did you know about? What do you know about Roe v. Wade? God, that's the thing also why I'm so glad that we're doing this because I...

All I can really say about Roe v. Wade is, oh yeah, we're drinking whiskey on the rocks. She just took a sip and that face was... We needed something stiff and strong. Stiff for the ladies, honey. This morning. We sure did. But yeah, Roe v. Wade, I've always known it's associated with abortion rights in this country, but literally couldn't tell you much more than that. Truly, I was always like, oh, I'm glad we have that. Yeah. I'm glad it's a good thing. Yeah. But couldn't tell you much more about it.

And I felt truly the same way. I was like, I think it was in the early 70s. I'm kind of thinking. I didn't know like what was legal before, what was going on in the States with abortion. Yeah. Show, the episode, you know, will be about Roe v. Wade, but a large portion of the episode is also going to be talking about like

The history of abortion, how we got here, medical advances, stigmas, also different cases after Roe v. Wade and kind of how it's been an ever-evolving, you know, difficult... It's never been easy. It's never been easy to be a woman. Ain't that the truth? And that is... And there it is. And there it is. Like, there's been no other there it is more powerful than that statement. So...

Shall we? Shall we get into it? Let's do it. I would also like to quickly say that I will be using the term woman and pronouns like she and her a lot when relating to pregnancy. But abortions also apply to non-binary and trans people. And we see you. And we hear you. And we will fight for you. Absolutely. But in a lot of the language and a lot in the history, it will be woman. Got it.

So, what is Roe v. Wade? Roe v. Wade was a landmark legal decision issued on January 22nd, 1973, in which the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Texas statute banning abortion, effectively legalizing the procedure across the United States. It's always Texas, isn't it? Huh.

Texas, Texas, Texas. There's nothing sexier than a blue Texas. And I just, I feel like one day it could happen again. I mean, truly though, shout out to my boyfriend who moved to Texas to try to get another little blue boat in there. That's right. That's right. We love to see it. We do love to see it. So it's saying that abortion is legal across the country? Yes.

Yes. So and then obviously, since then, there has been a lot of regulations from the states specifically. But Roe v. Wade did legalize the procedure across the country. Okay.

Got it. Because that is something that I have been thinking about that I'm like, well, then why is Mississippi able to do all these crazy fucking laws? But I guess we'll get into it. We'll get into it because with any court decision and the Supreme Court decision, then other cases come in where they go, okay, well, we see what you're saying here, but how about we restrict this, this, and this? So it's always...

Truly violence against a woman's body in the different cases that come after, which we will discuss. So with the decision, the court held that a woman's right to choose was implicit in the right to privacy protected by the 14th Amendment in the Constitution. Oh, excuse me. I just burped. Your buddy's like, yeah. I'm going to choose to burp. Sounded like a little frog. That's the sound I made last night when we were watching Housewives. That's so shabby. Yeah.

Oh, damn. I forgot. Oh, what's the 14th Amendment? The 14th Amendment is right to privacy. Okay, got it. So, you know, there's a lot of people arguing right now about, well, does the Constitution like implicitly say we are protecting abortion? And then, you know, that's why you have to really dig into it. And that's why we have to fucking decipher what all of these old men in the, what, 1700s? God.

And there's also the Ninth Amendment, which says we might not know everything in this constitution and we're gonna allow space for that. And that's where it gets a little tricky. I'm turned on by you right now. Oh, thank you so much. This brilliance just pouring out of you. Wow, wow, wow.

I appreciate that. Prior to Roe v. Wade, abortion had been illegal everywhere. Not in this country we're going to be specifically talking about. Illegal before quickening, which is the point in which a woman could feel the fetus moving around four months of pregnancy.

before that or after that? I'm sorry, after that. Okay. So it was like, everything's good until you feel like you have a baby in there. And that has been, viability has been a huge debate even in modern medicine of when technically the fetus could live outside the mother's womb. And that's viability. And that's viability. So it used to be around like 15, 16 weeks.

And now Modern Medicine argues that it is around 24 weeks. Okay. So that's six months of pregnancy. Got it. Right? Math? Yes. All that trimester stuff, I never know. I mean, it's truly crazy. It's crazy. And we'll get into viability because, you know, that's the...

Whole other thing. Yeah, I mean, this episode could be 12 episodes. I bet. Like, I was trying to really narrow it down. Hey, guess what? If we're at Pirate Studios for three hours, we'll break it up. We sure will. That's right. And we'll do that. Buckle up, everyone. So before, obviously, talking about legalities, Supreme Court, all that bullshit, we need to talk about the history of early abortion. Mm-hmm.

Because y'all, women have been giving themselves abortions since the beginning of time. Beginning of time. And hasn't always been, you know, the safest abortions. But we will find a way and men will find a way for their partners to do it. And we will all find a way to do it. Believe that. So obviously less safe, but like, you know.

Hundreds of years ago, there weren't condoms, there weren't birth control pills. Shit was happening. Of course. I wonder when like the first person realized that pulling in like the pull and pray. Well, pull and pray doesn't always work. It doesn't. But I wonder like when that happened. Like, wait a second. This is what makes a baby. When did they discover that it wasn't the stork? I mean, obviously. I mean, that'd be fascinating. It would be fascinating. History of sex. History of sex.

So, in the early 10th century, Life of Patriarch Ignatius by Nesitas David Poplagon. You know, guys, sorry for everything I'm going to be, you know, these are all some fucking Greek people. Again, we're in it together. We're in it together. Tash is a Greek name, but it's not part of my blood. Oh, is it? So, forgive me. I love a Spanish copeta. Oh, God. And baklava. Oh, yeah.

So this is a narrative of a religious figure. The author recounts the story of a woman in labor with a breached birth. There, she is in immense pain and the author writes that in order to prevent the woman too from perishing with her child, the doctors operated on the baby and drew it out, cutting it limb by limb. Oh my God. So obviously that's pretty graphic and not tell abortions now happen. But this was...

This was in the early 10th century. People being like, all right, we got to do fucking something. Because the woman's in danger. Exactly. So let's figure it out to save her. The Council of Incria in 340 A.D.,

stated that women found to have committed or attempted an abortion on themselves or others were exiled from the church for 10 years, revising earlier suggestions that they were exiled for life. Yet in the mid fourth century, the church father, Basil the Great, revises these decrees suggesting that time should not be prescriptive, but dependent on the repentance of the person. There, however, he focuses not just on the fetus, but again, on the danger of the procedures for women that usually die from such attempts.

Meaning, we have seen that 340 AD, there is a conversation around, okay, well, if the woman's life is in danger, we do need to help her. So we will do what we can. However, there's also like punishment for the woman that wants it to be done. So it's like very hypocritical. So it's like, as if this wasn't hard enough for the woman, we have to punish her as well. Exactly. Got it.

But medical historical evidence has proposed a very different story than that told from many religious or legal texts. The fact of the matter is, is that many, quote, good Christian women were indeed undertaking abortions and using contraceptives. And the wealthy and elite Christian women not only had the best resources to the medical knowledge of the Arab, but also privacy to undertake these practices without shame. That's the thing is this is such like a class debate.

thing as well? A hundred percent. And it's truly like even reading, you know, these texts from thousands of years ago, it's proof that abortion has always been a socioeconomic issue and also against people of color. So yeah, like, you know, women, women were doing it.

How are they doing it is the question. Hildegard von Began, born 1098, who was a German nun. She was a woman of many talents. She was a composer, a mystic, a writer, a philosopher, and a medical provider. Oh, I would love to have dinner with her. I mean, truly find a woman who can do it all. And she was one of the first

People that's documented that she would prescribe her own like abortion medicine, which I, you gotta really not laugh, but the things that, that women were doing while very upsetting, it's fascinating as well of like how far medicine has come and thank God for that. So her own abortion medicine was a bath of fresh river water.

Heated with warm tiles and filled with chrysanthemum. Feverfew. Mushed into a mixture in a mortar. Put in a little bag. Cook it in wine. Add clove and white pepper. A little less white pepper than clove. And honey. Drink this daily, both fasting and with meals, for five days or 15 until the matter is resolved. It kind of sounded like you were like, and honey, drink it. And drink it, honey. That's...

Just sounds like a T. Truly. And this was said to expel your uterine content. Interesting. What year was that? She was born 1098. Holy, you know, probably 20 years after that or so. She's doing her thing. Wow. But it's interesting because prescriptions for birth control and abortion methods were widely circulated among medical professionals and also appeared in household recipe books.

So the first pharmaceutical text, De Materia Medica, by the Greek physician Padanus Disordius, lists 959 substances, 141 which are noted to bring on menstruation, 49 to expel an embryo, 18 to terminate an embryo, and 6 to cause abortion. So these recipes are in medical books throughout the medieval era. Wow. Like it's.

It's just such a... It's how people were also wanting to know how to cure a cold. Right. People were wondering how to not have a pregnancy. Well, that's a very fair thing because it's your body. 100%. It's medical care. And also back in the day, guys, let's remember women...

died constantly from giving birth. Constantly. Like I should have looked up, you know, an exact number, but like the mortality rate. Up until recently. To this day, abortions are safer than giving birth. I mean, I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it at all. No, like a legal or not legal, a safe abortion that is, you know, you know what you're doing. Yep, by medical professionals. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Show other ways women would have abortions would be to eat crocodile poop. No. Yep. And shove some dough up their vagina. What kind of dough? Like bread dough? Like bread dough. Crocodile feces are known to have like a spermicidal element to them. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine a person having to go over trees at crocodile poop? How'd you guys find that out? No kidding. It's truly the question. The question. Yeah.

That is the question. There was this famous tea that was called pennyroyal or mentha polygium. And it's actually a type of mint, but the levels are very toxic. So it's deeply poisonous if you take like more than five grams. But without that, that can be said to...

Also be quote successful at the time with abortions. Other ways, eating crow's eggs, stepping over a viper. Oh no. Wait, just step that, just the act of it? Just the act of stepping over. They're like, you're so brave. You can do whatever you want now. Exactly. Jumping and kicking yourself in the butt.

Oh, no. Oh, no. That is so upsetting. Yeah.

Yeah. I was talking to you about this when we were texting about it earlier. And I don't think we included this on the Donner party, but even on the Donner party, there was stories. If you go listen, last podcast on the left,

of women who got pregnant on their route and had, you know, decided that wasn't right for them because they all ended up eating each other. So not the best place to bring in a child. Yeah, you'd say. No, but we need to think about what that child's life, Claire. That science experiment. Anyways, they would have the men shake the women.

Wild. I mean, all these things sound very painful, very like barbaric, like go eat the fucking poop of a crocodile. Like, and Lord knows they're trying to figure out what works at the time. There's not medical advances. Once we're getting into like, wait a second, there maybe could be something that goes in sharp, but you know, it's like the same thing as like the hanger. But yeah. Like, you know, there needs...

We're not there yet. So early regulations for abortion started in the 1820s and 1830s. That included a sale, the sale of some very dangerous drugs that would induce abortions for women. Many were fatal to women, so they'd be taking them and dying. Of course. Or they just didn't work. But they continued to be sold because it's also, you know, women's health. No one really gives a fucking shit about it.

Yeah, it's a lot to keep from crying. Like literally, and Lord knows we've been crying. Yeah, no kidding. So in the 1950s with these drugs and the newly established American Medical Association, they started calling for the criminalization of abortion, mostly to eliminate midwives and homeopaths. What? Because were midwives and homeopaths the ones that were... They were the ones that were really like...

promoting, I think, just abortion, like the right to choose in general. Well, I bet that midwives and homeopaths were usually women. Exactly. And it kind of reminded me of like the doctors versus healers conversation we had in our Salem episode about how there's always been this like extreme rivalry and tension between like, quote, doctors and midwives.

Like Eastern versus Western medicine. And what's interesting is the first right to life movement was not led by grassroots activists, but rather physicians who were anxious about their professional status.

Because they weren't doing those procedures? Because before then, physicians had been largely unregulated without the institutional or cultural authority to corner the market on healing. So in the 19th century, a variety of other healers competed with physicians for business, especially the business of women's reproductive health care.

While many physicians believe that scientific medicine would benefit their patients, some in order to hurt the healer's business sought government licensing and regulations to weed out the competition. So it wasn't even like a religious thing in the beginning? No. Because I feel like that's what it's turned into. It's turned into a religious thing also, which I'll talk about later, which was very fascinating to me. It turned into something during the Reagan administration of how can we get

more voters and kind of come up with this whole problem. But it really started

as this tension between doctors of how, of like, they're like, fuck, we got to get these, get these women out of here because business is hurting. God, that's crazy. I also feel like we could do a whole episode on the Reagan administration and how damaging that was to so many communities. Truly though. But also just like to point this out, cause we keep being like, no one cares about women's health and like the medicine fields. Like you have to think about that. It truly was just men up until recently.

so it's like I just need everyone to hear that it's like we haven't been given a fair chance because they don't give a shit because there hasn't been any women in there exactly there's like so there's no space for like and they tried and then I know I know the maniosis again we have it and there it is so yeah it was kind of the movement was led by this and also it was led in racism because so many natives

were alarmed that immigration had increased. And with abortion, they feared that the declining birth rate among the native white American born Protestant women would decline. So they were like, no, we don't have abortions because then other people are going to come into our country and into our town. What? Do they call themselves natives? Because they're definitely not native. Well, America, honey. Yeah, no kidding. Right? Yeah. But yeah. So like racism, medical issues,

competitiveness, all of these things that really started this war on women's bodies that have nothing to do with... The women. And the women don't have a say in it at all. People feeling threatened that they think that everything's a piece of pie and if someone else gets a piece, they have less. And that's not the way the world works. Exactly. Which is wild to me. It is truly wild. There's enough pie to go around, everyone. Well, you know, there sure is. There's cherry pie. There's apple pie. And blueberry pie. Yeah.

A little bit of everything. That's right. So in 1869, the Catholic Church banned abortion at any state of pregnancy. And then it gets a little bit into more like Catholicism of like, say, you know, I mean. Wait, so 1869, the Catholic Church all of a sudden was like, actually, we're not cool with this. Yes. Okay. Okay. And I think that was, I mean, I really do think it was rooted in racism. Right.

Because because of like they did not want they wanted to protect like the white privileged Protestant or not Protestant, but just like the Catholic Catholic woman. And in 19 eight, sorry, 1873, Congress passed the Comstock law, which made it illegal to distribute contraceptives and abortion drugs through the U.S. mail.

contraceptive stuff. I'm like, why? I don't get it. I mean, truly wild. Don't you men love sex the most? Right. Like, don't you want to be able to have sex and have freedom to have sex and pleasure just like we all should without having to worry about your partner getting pregnant and you becoming a father? That's the thing is that men have been able to do that forever. They can leave and they can leave and it's fine. Yeah. It's the women who...

Exactly. Okay. And it's like, it's hard not to get like heated while talking about this, but I really just do hope that men specifically that might be listening to this episode right now can just maybe take down that empathy wall that you may have had up that, Hey, like you may have never heard the word abortion before. You might not know what we're talking about. You might not know anyone that's had one, but just to really think and put yourself in the shoes of,

of what a woman goes through from finding out she's pregnant to like, not even that, but like the rest of your life, this is now, it's your life. It's not just a pregnancy. To have to carry something around.

Truly. In your body. And have the emotional and physical side effects of that. Absolutely. And you might not know someone who's had an abortion or you might not think that you know somebody who's had an abortion. But you do. You do. You definitely do. Literally everybody does. And so just to try to sort of just like... Be open. Yeah. Maybe this episode, just zone out and think of yourself in this position. Absolutely. And that's all that we can do. That's it. That's it. So jumping ahead a little bit, um...

Women now are not, you know, just shaking themselves to have abortions. There is shemitical advantage in technology. So in France, in... Actually, I guess going back a little bit. In France in 1723, there was something designed called the modern curette, which was kind of referred to in ancient texts, more like the sharp pokey thing that we were using. It was...

Originally not applied specifically to a gynecological purpose until 1842. And then they're like, oh, wait a second. Huh, this is crazy. This could be used for dilation and curdage, which has been practiced since the late 19th century.

And then in the 20th century, saw improvements in abortion technology with like vacuum devices and suction aspiration abortion, which is now, you know, one of the two types of abortions that you can get. During the mid 1900s, the United States and the medical community, they were like, hold on, hold on, hold on. This vacuum syringe is actually a really great idea. It's safer, not as painful. Yeah.

Great. Let's do it. So now this became the main way to have an abortion recently, which this is when I was like, I could do, we could do an entire episode on medical abortion, which are the pills, which the FDA approved only in 2020. Different administrations have been there. I was like, I don't even know how to put this in a five minute notes. There were ups and downs and Bush and Clinton and,

Of like progress and then they stopped it? Yeah, progress and then plummet, progress and plummet of trying to get these in the hands of women because obviously, or not obviously, you might not know this, but a medical abortion you can do in your own privacy of your own home, but it is only 10 to 11 weeks of pregnancy and then you'd have to go in for a surgical or procedure into a clinic. I will just say like,

10 to 11 weeks of pregnancy, it's really not that long. It really is not. As a woman with your periods, periods can be irregular, periods can be like, it's really not that long. Well, that's why like the six week bans are so disgusting because you...

Women's periods, you might have a period every five to seven to eight weeks. Like, you know, there's so many. You just don't even know. Exactly. So, yeah, I mean, if anyone, hey, if anyone wants to look up or have us do an extra bonus episode on the pills, it's truly just wild. Making its way downtown. Walking fast. Space is fast and it's homebound. Yep, yep. We're making a cartoon. You'll see it before this episode. Oh, God, yes. You will. You will. So, obviously, things are happening. Yeah.

You know, there are underground abortions. There's actually an HBO documentary coming out on the Jane...

Jane Club. Fuck. The Jane Club is in Silver Lake, I believe. But the Jane, it's something where you can call, right? And say. Yeah. So this became really popular, I believe. The Jane Collective. Okay. Officials Abortion Counseling Service of Women's Libertation was an underground service in Chicago. Okay. Before Roe v. Wade. And so women were having sex.

Abortions with the help of other women underground who were leading them to where they knew that they needed to go. Sisterhood. Sisterhood. I get chills even thinking about it. I mean, it's just, it's incredible what women can do when we come together. God, it's so true. And what year was that? That started, do you know? I think that was... I mean, it was before 73. It was before Roe v. Wade. Yeah, that was, it operated from 1969 to 1973. Got it. A time when abortion was illegal in most of the United States. Yeah.

show

I do have to mention that in 1970, Hawaii was the first state to legalize abortion before Roe v. Wade. Oh, wow. So they were allowed to do that. They were like, this is a state's, at the time it was a state's rights issue. A state's rights issue. It only applied to state's residents. So you couldn't fly into Hawaii. Wow. To get one. That same year, New York legalized abortion with no residency requirement. Okay, amazing. So people are going to New York.

And abortion was also legally available in Alaska and Washington before Roe v. Wade. Washington State or D.C.? Washington State. Okay. Pacific Northwest is usually pretty progressive with their things. And we love you for that. We really do. I'm surprised I didn't see California on there. But hey, you know, Reagan was from California. So there's some things. That is true. I do feel like sometimes I'm like, and then you think about how red a lot of California is. Head on down to the O.C. That is scary.

Yeah, it is. So 1960s, we're getting there. We have the women's movement, right? Women's movement, also called the women's liberation movement, diverse social movement, largely based in the United States that in the 1960s and 1970s sought equal rights and opportunities. Right.

Slow down, Tess, slow down. We're getting passionate. We're getting excited. We're getting excited. This is like our first wave feminism is happening right now, correct? Right now. Or maybe it's second wave. It's second wave. Second wave, because first wave was like suffragette movement. Exactly, yeah. Second wave of feminism, greater personal freedom for women.

Good things are happening. You know, this is when it's like women are burning their bras. Burn your bras, baby. Honey. Honey. I get it. Yeah. I haven't worn, actually, I'm wearing a bra right now. For what? Literally for what? That's like a whole episode on bras. Sometimes it is nice, like just to be held. Yeah. Sometimes it does hurt, especially like when you're on your period. Oh, no kidding. You need a little support. You do. But hey, free the nipple too. Free the nip. Both things can be true. That's right.

So now we're going to get into the years before Roe v. Wade. Okay. So in 1965, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a law banning the distribution of birth control to married couples. To married couples? Uh-huh. They were like, well, you're married, so you should be popping them out. Gross. Uh-huh. Dink's life, double income, no kids. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Yeah.

Truly. Count your blessings, everyone. No kidding. Oh, man, that sucks. So they struck that down because they were like, yeah, back to that Constitution and the right to privacy, 14th Amendment. Can't really do that because that's really none of our business.

Okay. Okay. So they were saying like, actually, guys, that's not chill. Yeah. They're like, oh, I mean, they probably like we want to, but we can't. That fricking constitution. We got to go read the pages. We're going to be very picky choosy about which ones we like. I mean, there it is. And there it is. We all saw the news yesterday about the guns. Yeah. Okay. I need to stay focused.

And then in 1972, the Supreme Court struck down another law prohibiting the distribution of contraceptives to unmarried adults. In 1972? So this was like, oh, a year later? A year before Roe v. Wade. Oh, a year before to unmarried adults. That's so interesting that they're like...

You singles have your fun, but when you're married, you're married. It's like that American dream bullshit. Two and a half kids. Yeah. Truly, of even like...

It's very strange. It's very strange of like, you know, the marriage in general is obviously like even the origins of that is not great. You know, it's very like transactional and like heteronormative and, you know, just white people. You know, that's a whole nother. We could also get into that. But let's talk about Jane Roe.

Let's talk about it. That was not her name. Did you know that? Is it a pseudonym? Mm-hmm. What was her name? Her name was Norma McCorvey. Why wasn't it Jane Doe? You know, I just don't know. But it was Jane Roe. Jane Roe. Okay. Jane. Yeah. Wow. Oh, that's why it's the Jane Collective. Oh.

Because it's like a pseudonym. Oh, okay. I didn't even know. I love the name Jane. Yeah, it's really classy, actually. It is. I don't know anyone named Jane. I don't think I do either. If there's a Jane listener right now, please DM us. DM us and just like... Just show yourself. I'm here. Just show yourself. That's all we need. Okay, so what's her actual real name? Norma McCorvey. Okay, Norma McCorvey. Who's Norma McCorvey? Joe, in 1963...

Oh, that whiskey. I'm like feeling a little tipsy. I'm enjoying it. Okay, good. I'm enjoying it too. Okay, great. I was so nervous and now I'm just like, here we go. One more time. Everybody's feeling fine. Here we go now. Here we go. Okay. So Norma was a Texas woman in her early 20s. Oh, Texas. Okay. Who sought to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

So McCorvey, who had grown up in a difficult, impoverished household, previously had given birth twice and had given up both children for adoption. Wow. How old is she? Early 20s. I think she was like 23 or something. At the time of McCorvey's pregnancy in 1969, abortion...

Was not, oh, was legal in Texas, but only for the purpose of saving a woman's life. Like if she was literally dying. And so that, sorry, I should have mentioned that before. Like, obviously it is not, the right to choose is not legal. But if a woman is on a hospital bed and they're like, okay, you have an ectopic pregnancy or like something is going to go wrong, we will do it. We don't want to, but we will. Got it.

while American women with the financial means could obtain abortions, like we said that some states it was legal, it was fine. Um,

Going to places where the procedure was safe and legal or pay a large fee to a U.S. doctor willing to secretly perform an abortion. Because we know that rich people have always gotten any privilege to get someone in their house to. Absolutely. You know, people, you have the money to do it. Exactly. The resources, all of it. Exactly. Norma was like, well, wait, this isn't like in my life. I can't obtain an abortion like I'm sure millions of other women have the same problem.

So obviously, as a result, some women resorted to the illegal, dangerous back alley abortions or self-induced abortions like we were talking about earlier. Back alley abortions like doctors that aren't exactly like... Yes, that were like, all right, we can pretty much just try to get an instrument. We can maybe sterilize it and we can put it up your uterus. So the number, the estimated number of illegal abortions in the United States in the 50s and 60s range from 200,000 to 1.2 million a year.

I bet that's even lower than what it actually was. And there it is because a lot of people would never even admit to having it done. 100%. I'm sure it was truly double to triple that. Yeah, I agree. People have sex every single day. Yes, like contraceptives don't work. Yeah. Like, I mean, truly. Or mistakes happen. Yeah, or you think you're fine. Or maybe you want to get pregnant and then two weeks later you're like, oh, I don't want this. I don't want to get pregnant anymore. 100%.

So after trying unsuccessfully to get an illegal abortion, Norma was referred to Texas attorneys Linda Coffey and Sarah Weddington, who were interested in challenging anti-abortion laws. In court documents, McCorvey now became known as Jane Roe. Got it. There's Roe. There it is. And then Wade. Where does Wade come from? Yeah. Henry Wade. Oh.

In 1970, the attorneys filed a lawsuit on behalf of Norma and all the other women who were or might become pregnant and want to consider all options against Henry Wade, the district attorney of Dallas County, where Norma lived.

Earlier in 1964, Wade was in the spotlight when he had prosecuted Jack Ruby, who killed Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin of President John F. Kennedy. Oh. So this- He was the prosecutor or the- Wait, who was he? He prosecuted the killer, or who- He defended- Wait. Sorry. No, now I'm like, wait a second.

He prosecuted Jack Ruby, who killed Lee Harvey Oswald, who killed John S. Kennedy. Okay, got it. I'm like, do we need to make a phone call right now? Like, do we? Like, maybe just real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's put someone. Are you going to call Dalton? I'm going to call Cindy. Yeah, yeah. The reporter. Guys, put her in the mic. Perfect, perfect. Pretend that she's not in court. She might be in court right now, everyone. Please. Hi, Mom. You're on Right Answers Mostly right now.

We have a legal question. Okay. Okay. I don't lie to you. Well, you're not, but you're a court reporter, so don't sell yourself short, honey. Okay, so Wade was the prosecutor for the guy who killed Lee Harvey Oswald. So that means that he was his lawyer for the guy who killed Lee Harvey Oswald? Yeah, the prosecutor is the one who...

works for the state or the county or whatever. So he was... He'd be like the state of Arkansas against whoever. He would represent the state of Arkansas. Okay, so he's representing the state against the guy. Correct. Okay, great. Okay, great. I love you. I'll call you later. Bye. Love you, Sydney. Thank you so much. What a smart angel of love. She's like, please don't do this to me.

That's what a mother does. God love her. God love her. What a legend. Okay. So who knows where we'll end up on that. He was for the state. Got it. Okay. Okay. Thank you for that. And we are back. So in June 1970, now we get into the Supreme Court ruling of it all. Okay. A Texas district court ruled that the state's abortion ban was illegal because it violated a constitutional right to privacy. We're all back to the 14th Amendment. Okay.

Wait, also, is that Wade being like, hold on, this woman does not need an abortion. Yeah, Wade's an asshole. Yeah, no kidding. Wade is like, no, like, please. And the Supreme Court's like, okay, well, we got to step in here because, like, it is, we're going to go back to the right to privacy. So afterwards, Wade declared that he'd continue to prosecute doctors who performed abortions.

Wait, chill the fuck out. Literally, is this the hill you want to die on? Apparently. That's just why I'm always like, who makes their life purpose to like violate women? That's the thing. It's like, get a hobby. Get a hobby. Please. Anything else besides this. So the court or the case eventually was appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. Meanwhile, Norma gave birth and put the child up for adoption.

Wow. So she's literally like, for the love of God, this is now third time's a fucking charm. Good. I am carrying this baby to term. I am birthing it. And I also just, if any listeners right now are like, she got pregnant for the third time. Like she's not being safe. It's not that easy. Again, there's not enough research in women's health. It's not that easy for a lot of communities to get contraception. If you don't have insurance, it's expensive. Yeah.

And even if she was getting pregnant from, you know, just being like, whoopsie, that's her prerogative. But truly, because accidents do happen. And even when you do have tried to have control, it also still happens. You know, the body's the human body is crazy. It's crazy. And it will try to get pregnant in any way it can. Unfortunately, the woman has to bear all of the responsibility. But shit fucking happens. And when we're taught in school that the best contraception is abstinence.

That's not sex education at all. No, that is a false narrative that religion has instilled in us that only ends in things like this. Absolutely. It's just not okay. So on January 22nd, 1973, the Supreme Court in a 7-2 decision struck down the Texas law banning abortion, effectively legalizing the procedure nationwide.

In a majority opinion written by Justice Harry Blackmun, the court declared that a woman's right to an abortion was implicit in the what amendment? Oh, 14th. 14th. There it is. So, yeah, we're seeing a little we're seeing a what's it called? OK, so everything about this is really in the in the 14th Amendment and right to privacy. Right.

But it's like, also, yes, but like, shouldn't it just be like the right to be a human, be a human being, to not be a female enslavement? Is there something about that in the Constitution? Also, we forget, like, it's like we forget that there's two people involved here. There's literally

two people involved here and all of a sudden it's just one person's responsibility. And that's freaking crazy. Women don't walk out the door and then just click a button and it's like, oh, I've gotten pregnant. Someone did that to her. And who did that? That's right. The man. And not like it's, you know, no one should be blamed for a situation of which that happens unless it is obviously not consensual rape and you know, but like 50-50 thing, everybody. We have shaman and we have eggs. Yep. And what happens?

You should make a baby. You make a baby. You know, you make whatever. Yeah. And actually, I don't ever want to refer to that as a baby. I agree. It should be, you should say fetus or like uterine content. I've been hearing a lot right now. Uterine content. That sounds correct to me. I would like to keep saying, I need to be reminded to keep saying that. Yep. So they're like, okay, guys, no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States. Okay.

So this is Roe v. Wade saying, actually, this is like a constitutional right among every state. The court divides the pregnancy into three trimesters. So of course now we're still, it's like, yes, every state should allow this to happen, but let's get into the details. That's already, again, so interesting though, that I'm like, how can these states are already like making abortion inaccessible? Because you can...

truly dissect every single thing in the constitution and anyone on the court, a white man can go, well, it says this, but what, you know, actually this amendment says that that should be the opposite. And it's the constitution cafeteria style where you take a little bit of this and you take a little bit of that. And it's messy. And like you were saying this morning, isn't this what RBG feared? Yes.

Yeah, that's what RBGP here. That it wasn't. She was critical, I've heard, of Roe v. Wade because it's easy to interpret in different ways. And that's really scary. So, okay, let's break it down. Okay, so the court divided the pregnancy into three trimesters and declared that the choice to end a pregnancy in the first trimester was solely up to the woman. Okay. In the second trimester, the government could regulate abortion, although not ban it, in order to protect the mother's health. Okay.

In the third trimester, the state could prohibit abortion to protect a fetus that could survive on its own outside the womb, except when a mother's health was in danger. So this is the vitality thing. Yes. So this is where it gets into...

if it can be a human outside of the womb. Right. Also, this must have felt like a really big win though for women to also, I can't imagine having all of this go on without social media. Yeah.

I know. I mean, like on one hand, I'm looking at these things now and I'm just disgusted that even reading the court divided pregnancy and the government could regulate, like all of those things are really hard to even read because it shouldn't be like that. But let's put ourselves in the 1970s of just like the Supreme Court just ruled that it's actually a woman's right. To choose. To do this. Right. So I'm sure that was a really, and it is. For the time. An amazing constitutional right for, you know, half of this country. Yeah.

More than half, I think. Truly, 52%, something like that. A lot of ladies out there. And thank God. Thank God. But, you know, we still have regulations on it, you know, which is interesting because even right now, you know, we're in 2022, y'all. And 60% of Americans today support abortion in the first trimester. 28% support it in the second trimester.

28%? That's so low. Oh my God. It's truly your body is like reacting to it. I'm so sorry for the noises. No, please. Coming out of my body. So, I mean, in the 70s, this was the court ruling. And today, only 28% supported after what second trimester? Like 12, is it 12 weeks? Let me say it again. Like, I don't know. When does second, you know, guys, we're also just, you know, we're researching ourselves. That's right.

14 weeks. Okay. Yes, 14 weeks. All right, Rammys, who's tired? Who needs a break? Whether you're taking care of your kids, you know we love our Rammie moms, a senior loved one, or juggling both, God bless, we all need and deserve a break sometimes. Care.com can help give you that break by helping you find trusted caregivers in your neighborhood.

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So, you know, to this day, which is just a little crazy because it doesn't at that point, it doesn't know its favorite TV show. Like, I feel like everyone is like, oh, but once it gets later on, it doesn't know its favorite TV show. Like now I feel like it's a functioning person in society. Exactly. That it's lived its life.

it's just, I mean, it's, it's very, very frustrating that even that's still a thing of how we break it down. Because it is interesting that people are like, yeah, we support it actually until, you know, you have to, if you universally support it, support it or don't support it because it's truly not, it's none of your fucking business. And like, we're going to say this at some point, no one enjoys an abortion. And like, I think that is like the biggest thing that pro lifers don't,

And I can't speak for all pro-life people, but I need everyone to know that no woman has ever enjoyed the process or it's never been a simple decision for any woman. Absolutely not. And like there is, which I think like kind of went back to my hesitancy of doing this first season because like...

There is a delicacy and like a fine line of because, you know, it is a difficult decision for some women and it is a painful decision for some women. But it also is just a health care. It's a procedure. It's medical.

Does anyone like to go get any medical procedure? None. No, it's invasive and... It's scary. It's scary. And with the stigma and shame that adds so much more to any woman's decision, which shouldn't even be put on her. So of course no one is skipping into a clinic. None. So it's just like nobody wants to do this. And I just, I really hope that the narrative stops at some point. I agree. I really hope that it stops as well. Because I mean, think about how you feel when you have to go get any sort of... I have to go get a pap smear. Honey, it's terrifying.

We have to go to the dentist. When you have to get a colonoscopy, when you have to get your balls felt for like- It's invasive. It's invasive. So that's that. Okay. That's that. So the court, this is now Roe v. Wade. We have the three trimesters. We got the states involved. We have it all happening. I found this truly fascinating. So Norma maintained a low profile following the court's decision.

And in the 1980s, she was very active in the abortion rights movement. However, in the 1990s, after becoming friends with the head of an anti-abortion group and converting to Catholicism, she turned into a vocal opponent of the procedure.

Wait, a vocal opponent of abortion? Yes. Wait, what? The legacy of Norma McCorvey. She ignited this entire movement, this constitutional change. And then she became friends with someone who was very Catholic and was like, oh, but you know that it's murder. You're murdering a baby. Oh, no. And so now this woman, which I feel like is a little bit symbolic of...

There is something there that is very sad about how religion can be so powerful that even you are the face of this movement and you were also kind of brainwashed then to believe that maybe what you did was not the best choice for the country. Oh, that's so sad. Isn't that devastating? That's so, you know, and listen, if she wanted to convert to Catholicism, that's her prerogative. That doesn't belong in politics. Yeah.

Exactly. Yep. If you guys have not researched separation of church and state, now would be the time. Again, that's like the cafeteria thing of being like, it doesn't belong here, but it belongs here. Exactly. Like that's not actually true. Wow. That's really disappointing. Really, really sad. So let's talk about since Roe v. Wade, because obviously here we are. Many states have imposed restrictions that weaken abortion rights and Americans remain divided over support of a woman's right to choose and

A lot of things have happened since 1973 in the Supreme Court. For example, in 1992, there was a Supreme Court case called Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania versus Casey. Have you heard of it? It sounds familiar, but I wouldn't. I don't know. So I had to reread this like 20 times this morning because I just was like, wait, what? But it's debatable.

I'm just going to read it. But basically, it's just more restrictions on what we can do and how we can kind of manipulate women to feel guilty about it, to wait longer, which evidence only proves that the longer you wait, the more likely you'll say, oh, I'm too scared to do it and I will go through with it.

Sure, the facts of the case. The Pennsylvania legislator amended its abortion control law in 1988 and 1989. Among the new provisions, the law required informed consent and a 24-hour waiting period prior to the procedure. Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. No. A minor seeking an abortion required the consent of one parent...

A married woman seeking an abortion had to indicate that she notified her husband of her intentions to abort the fetus. Where's the 14th Amendment in this? Sure. These provisions were challenged by several abortion clinics and physicians, like Planned Parenthood's coming in, and they're like, wait a fucking second, no. No. So a federal appeals court upheld all the provisions except for the husband notification requirement. What? Mm-hmm.

where again, like where's the 14th amendment that is her body. So then they go all back into the fetus viability argument and,

It just, it always goes back to the personification of the uterine content. Yes. Personification of the uterine content. Yes. That's it. And that seems to be the priority of everything. That is. So this is when states really then became involved. And as we know now, and I'm not sure if many people know this,

Many states force women to wait until they have to actually decide before coming back to listen to the heartbeat and to stare at the sonogram.

I have heard a story of someone I kind of know of them tilting their head to look at the sonogram. No, the doctor tilted their head. This happens in so many states. Stop it. I know. I actually have tears in my eyes because that is so traumatic. I know. I mean, it's truly like you watch Handmaid's Tale and you think we will never get to this point. That is getting to this point. And they know, well, we can do it for you tomorrow, but you have to look at it. It is...

It's absolutely horrifying. Horrifying. And there's no other way to go about it. I know. It's just not protecting. Sorry. No, it's horrible. It's horrible. Why are you being so emotional about this? Because it is emotional and it's horrific to hear it. And it's a difficult thing to really process as a woman to know that you could be in a state where you could be completely...

sure of your decision and then you go into somewhere that you think is going to be safe and you have them attack you in that way and gaslight you. It is 100% an attack. Treat it like a subhuman. I know. It's already such a tough decision. It's just devastating. I know. No, I mean, if you don't feel angry or emotional about this,

I would urge you to really think why and to really like dive into the feelings of why you're blocking it off because it's just, it's,

It's barbaric. It's not fair. And it's not fair. And this is what is in the hands of multiple, just a few white men that have never had to deal with anything like this. That's right. If you don't have any of the anatomy that goes into this whole process, you're not allowed to speak on it. No. And you know, you can have feelings on it. Feelings are not facts and feelings are not in the constitution. Right. Exactly. And that's, I guess I shouldn't say speak on it. You're not allowed to make laws on it.

And I would urge you maybe to be gentle about speaking on something that you will never be able to experience in your life. I mean, you can have all the feelings. People think abortion is sad. People think it makes them feel weird. People think, I don't know if I would do it. Maybe I would judge a woman. I know if she, whatever you think. Sure, I'm not anyone to say that you can't have a feeling on it, but it only goes so far. And then you really have to actually remove yourself from it and protect yourself.

Right. And equal rights and human rights and bodily autonomy. Absolutely. Guys, you can't...

take an organ, you can't take a liver, you can't take a heart from a corpse. You can't. No. Unless they have said that they're an organ donor. So how dare you try to control a living, breathing woman? I mean, it's wild. It is absolutely wild. And yesterday was a tough day too with like, you know, the Women's Healthcare Act that was, you know, I mean, I was sobbing all day, like sobbing. And I just

I think we all need to really do a better job of standing up for this right now. Absolutely. When people talk about, you know, when the fires are happening in Malibu, every single man on my Instagram is posting about how we can help. I think it's really time to step up and realize that like this is a terrifying time. It's a terrifying time for all the women around you. Exactly. Because again, we're not being treated equal. Exactly.

It's that saying of Kamala Harris when she was questioning Brett Kavanaugh before he got appointed and she asked him, is there any, can you think of any laws that have any restrictions on the male body? He goes, I don't, I don't. He's like medical procedures. She's like, that's not what I asked. Yeah. And he goes, are not that I can think of off the top of my head. You stupid, foolish.

Fucking piece of garbage. That's right. That's right. We're saying it here. We're saying it here. And I don't fucking care. You are a piece of garbage. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, it's just believe what you want to believe. Do not put that on other people. Exactly. Exactly. You don't like abortion that don't have one. Yep. So obviously we have seen...

You know, we've seen a lot of things in the Gonzalez versus Karthart in 1977. 1977, hello. 2007, the court upheld the Federal Partial Birth Abortion Act. That was in 2003, which prohibited a rarely used abortion procedure known as intact dilation and evacuation. So people were saying that, you know, I mean, there, I have a list of,

Truly like a hundred different cases of which I don't even know if it's productive to get into, but it is just states and in cases that are saying, well, this procedure doesn't seem like it's constitutional. This amount of time that goes by doesn't. So it's all just we've since it's happened, people have had since Roe v. Wade has happened, people have had to fight for it.

It to be upheld. Obviously, we know that the Mississippi law recently that would make abortions legal after 15 weeks of pregnancy was about two months earlier than Roe v. Wade said that that would be OK. So at this point, most experts estimate fetal viability to 24 weeks. I personally think.

It's why is there a time frame on any decision, you know, and the later that you go on for later term abortions, it is. Yes, it is more dangerous. It is more emotionally taxing. No one is really wanting to do that after that amount of time, I am sure. No, no one wants to. And that's the thing is that it's extremely rare. It is extremely rare. I think it's for...

I think, let's see, it is, I had this down somewhere, you know, 43% of abortions happen within six weeks. That is usually the time that someone will find out they are pregnant. 36% happen seven to nine weeks. 13% happen 10 to 13 weeks. 15, 14 to 15 weeks is at 3%. And 16 plus is at 4%.

It's very rare. It is very, very rare. And if a woman feels like that is the best choice for her, don't you think that it is something that is pretty necessary? Exactly. Because you do not want to be doing that at that point. No, absolutely not.

So obviously, you know, here we are in May 2022. The nation's highest court agreed to hear Dobbs versus Jackson's Women's Health Organization regarding the constitutionality of a Mississippi law banning most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. The case presents a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade. We are aware that there has been a leak of the draft in which they are going to overturn it. As of right now, states that protect abortion access that

what might happen in June, it will not affect these following states, Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa. Sorry. Florida. That's shocking. Why is that? Is that right? Florida is always a wild card, isn't it? Because I'm like, should look at this list. And I'm like, what? I mean, there are some crazy state laws. I mean,

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt it. I was just showing. No, but now I'm literally like Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington. Those in my notes say that those states are protected. We don't really know also what protection means. I think that's a very broad term. But, you know...

It's not good, y'all. It should not. The reason why it should not be a state issue is because this should be a constitutional right to protect your body. A hundred percent. And what I had touched upon earlier of how this sort of even became this movement and controversial thing was

was the Republican Party platform, which officially does, unfortunately, advocate an anti-abortion position. This developed along the modern pro-life movement before Roe v. Wade, the majority of Republicans were not anti-abortion, including most of the party's leadership.

That's what I always am confused about. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Well, JFK was a Catholic. Uh-huh.

It was a strategic. Talk about gaslighting. Talk about brainwashing. This was a ploy, everyone. This was a ploy. And it still is today. And it absolutely is. It absolutely is still today. And think about that. Let that sink in. Yes. Of like maybe how you feel a certain way. Try to think of what was instilled in you. Going back to the entire story.

why we created this podcast of what you want to learn in history class, but didn't. Do you remember having any conversations about Roe v. Wade in school? I don't. I remember my civics teacher saying some really uncool shit to us that wasn't about abortion, but is also about some human rights. I grew up in Arkansas, everyone. It's a very different world than California. I feel very lucky that I grew up in a family where

with very inclusive liberal values. But I do not remember Roe v. Wade specifically. I do remember, I mean, growing up again in like the South and conservative area, there are a lot of people, there's people who are running for, I don't know, some government thing who that's the first thing that they put on a conservative party is pro-life. And then they put a picture of a baby's hand

like holding a finger. Yeah. Again, it is manipulative.

Oh, yeah. I mean, they know everyone loves babies, but this isn't about babies. It's not about babies, guys. It's about controlling women who, you know, from the beginning of time, we have found ways to always control women, whether that is if they're allowed to work, if they're allowed to vote, how we should look. Yep. You know, just countless restrictions. And you think that we have come...

A long way. And, you know, like we still don't even, we're not paid equally. Yeah. Yeah. Truly most places. And I think this whole conversation is also, if you cannot have empathy for, let's say abortion, know that constitutional rights are being threatened right now. And that could go as far as interracial marriage. Yep. Gay marriage. This is just the start. And the Supreme Court might not see...

someone to help us out on our side for the next decade. Yep. And that is the fear. And that is really why right now is the time to like, it's the time to donate. We'll list a bunch of places that you can donate to on our Instagram, but it's also the time to realize that midterms are in November and we have to be doing our research on pro choice candidates who will, um,

make us stay safe in our states. And that's all we can do right now, but we can do it. Because as women, again, whether you would get an abortion or not, we need to protect each other. Exactly. You can have whatever judgment, but actually no, you can have whatever feeling, don't have judgment because it is health. It is healthcare. And we just need to...

You know, it's your own opinion versus human rights. It's the constitution versus universal healthcare. It's church versus state. It's your feelings versus just facts. I really hope that there is compassion right now. I agree. And that's really every knowledge is power and it's also empathy. It's hearing human stories, I think also really helps. So

I'd urge everyone to look up, like Shout Your Abortion is such an amazing organization. They have a Facebook page, they have a website, they have an Instagram page.

And, you know, if you go to it right now, it's just, you know, their, their photos are just a few sentences of stories of what women have actually felt going through an abortion. And it is the human experience. And I really hope everyone like checks out your abortion out. Absolutely. I'll check it out for sure. It's great. I just got their book. But yeah, I mean, that's, that, that is the end of my notes. Well done, Tess. I know that's,

a lot to take on and it's scary again to talk about because we've been told that it's something that you don't talk about when really it's just medical rights. So I applaud you. Thank you. You made me laugh. You made me cry. That's all I could want. A little silly, a little serious. That's our brand as always. That is our brand. Um,

And, you know, everyone check in with each other right now. And also what you can really do is donate. And I especially donate to Planned Parenthood in the Deep South. And if you are not able to donate, I say vote. That is free. And, you know, there's resources that you can look up online of like how to get to your polls, what district you're in, all of that stuff. Totally. You can show up and be an ally in so many different ways. That's so true. Escorting, you know, there's protesters at...

abortion clinics in LA, which we think is really, really liberal and safe. They're everywhere. So, you know, I'm volunteered to escort women that might be alone into a clinic. There's hotlines that we can all look into to volunteering to talk to women and how to not, you know, feel such shame. There's so many things we can do.

And if you can't do any of that, educate yourself. Like, I want to learn more about this. I want, you know, to be, yeah, the more we know, the better we can be. And that's all it is. Yeah. That is all it is. I mean, I could talk about it for another four hours. I mean, it's like, it's just the beginning of a conversation. It's seen even...

10 pages of notes is not enough, but I hope that this episode could give everyone a little insight into the history, what women have had to go through and the fight that we have ahead. And, you know, we'll, we'll end this episode with, with our, with our lady.

RBG. RBG. Again, like just one more time, you don't have to agree with it, but you can't take that away from other people. And that's all I have to say again. Exactly. And that's all I have to say too. Please share this episode, especially right now. Please send it to a friend. Please post it on your, any sort of social media. I think now is a really important time. To get the conversations going. Exactly. And just inform ourselves. So, yeah.

We appreciate you sticking with us. Yeah. We are here for you. We are. This goes out to everyone that has had any fear of your rights being taken away, fear of going through this, fear of what people think of you. We see you. We really see you. And we'll continue to do whatever we can to fight for you. That's right. That's right. And as always, XOXO. Wait, what did RBG say? Oh, Chris. Oh, sorry. Put the clip in, Chris.

Okay. Put the clip in and we'll leave it on that. And we'll leave it on that. As always, say it. XOXO. Right answers mostly. Or are you concerned about possibly the law actually moving backwards in some of the things that you fought so hard for?

- Yes, but not for women like me or most of you. Not because I'm well past childbearing age. But because of truth be told, there is no woman of means in the United States who will not be able to get a safe abortion if she wants one. All of the restrictions that we see in states like Texas,

operate only against poor women. In the Texas case we had a couple of years ago, it was obvious that the clinics in Dallas would stay in Houston, but the people who were far from the big cities and couldn't afford to take a day off from work, those, that, restrictive abortion laws operate

against poor women. And that's the sad story. We will never go back to the way it was before Roe v. Wade because there are a number of states at the time of Roe v. Wade, there were four states that provided abortion in the first trimester. No questions asked. Alaska, Hawaii, New York, California, those states will not go back to the way it was.

So it is a sad reality that any attempt to restrict abortion is going to affect only the poorest segment of the population. - And now there are even suggestions that perhaps Medicaid funding for even contraception could be restricted. Could you imagine that theoretically as an equal protection problem?

if contraception itself was precluded under Medicaid? - I always thought that Roe v. Wade was put under the wrong heading. It should not have been due process. It should have been equal protection, the woman's right to choose for herself, to determine her life's course, her own destiny.