Playboy
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Hi, everyone. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to another episode of Right Answers Mostly. Hosted by your favorite people, Tess Palomo and Claire Donalds.

You know, we like to bring you the stories that you didn't necessarily learn in history class. But you wanted to know because you were bored sick of everything else you were learning about. Who needed to know what happened in so-and-so A.D.? Nobody cares. I sure didn't. And so we're bringing you that joy that you didn't have when you were a teenager. Yeah.

Exactly. And we're doing it all over a cocktail. We sure are, because what better way to talk about history than to get tipsy. Just a little tipsy. Never drunk. Well, yeah. Titanic was a bit of a blur, but that was more adrenaline. That's fine. So today, I wanted to bring up the topic and learn the history about Playboy. I think that it's something that everyone knows about, but doesn't really know how it came to be and what that means.

I also have found that the more research I do, the more I talk to people about this, the more I feel like it is a controversial topic. Yes. I would have to agree. Yeah. When I mentioned to a couple people that we would be talking about this, their reactions were less than enthusiastic. Absolutely. Mainly women. Yes. Mainly women. Yeah. I haven't had any bad reactions from men. Yes. I was like, sick. Yeah.

Can't talk about boobs. Yeah, exactly. And we are. And we are. Of course. Yeah. But I also want to keep this space as being an open space. And I think it's a good way to look at anything that it's not so black and white. Totally. And like the subjects that we're discussing on this podcast, you know, are not the most heavy. They are things that I think you do have the space to have different opinions, to play devil's advocate, to have...

empathy for people involved in these sort of things and just to see where they were coming from is a really interesting thing that we're learning about. And you can learn from anything. I didn't want to say anything. No, it's fine. It's my fault for having to make up. Chris or whoever's editing this at some point. Tavi has makeup bags. He said, I don't want to look glamorous for Playboy. Why are you being naive? You've been so good all day. There you go.

He's like, I'm Natty when my aunties are around. That's true. A lot of attention from Auntie Kelly because you think she's hot. Yeah, I like you too, Tommy. Okay, we're back. We're back. So Tess, what did you know about Playboy? My only knowledge of Playboy was really just knowing that it was a controversial magazine. Mm-hmm.

Watching, well, not being able to watch, but trying to watch The Girls Next Door on E! Classic early 2000s. We love that. Guys, it's on YouTube. Check it out. Cannot wait to start that with you. Fascinating. The journey. Oh my gosh, it's amazing. And that's really it. I guess looking up which celebrities have posed for Playboy, for us, which housewives posed, and just being fascinated by seeing...

The spread, honestly. Yeah. I've always wanted to look it up and be like, I want to see how much they showed. Right. Well, even... Which... Blame the person. I'm with you. Yeah. And even as an adult, sometimes I'm like, wow, that's a naked body. Right. So, you know. It's crazy. And also, like, seeing, which we'll get to later, but like...

seen like 90s everyone had so much pubic hair oh so f and tell like recently pubic hair was alive and well which is fascinating because now you like most like pornography is extremely bare everything head to toe head to toe not a not an ounce of body hair on any woman sight

Yeah, no, I'm with you. And I feel like I always saw Playboy in movies as a boy sneaking a Playboy magazine out of their dad's closet or something like that. It's like this mystical thing almost. Yes, very secretive, very hush-hush. Yeah. Well, let's hop on into it. Hop on in. It brings me great joy. Great joy to make that little statement. Okay, to start us off, we can't talk about Playboy without talking about Hugh Hefner. R.I.P. R.I.P.

R.I.P. Wonder what that man's up to these days. Yeah, true. And an afterlife of some sort. Probably something problematic. Probably so. If we all create our heavens, I know what his would be. That's for sure. So Hugh Hefner was born in Chicago in 1926. His parents were Midwest Protestants who didn't allow dancing, drinking, or swearing in the house. Just as strict as they could be.

Explain so much. It really does. His mother was emotionally distanced. And in an interview, he said,

And again, that is tough to hear. Damn, a psychologist's dream right now to analyze his childhood and how that affected his life. Absolutely. So he was just ripped of any emotional and physical love. Wow. And if his mom's cold, we all know how that plays out in your romantic and sexual life. Mommy issues. Mommy issues.

I mean, who among us doesn't have some sort of issues with our parents? Mommy or daddy. Wow. We'll talk about that later. Yeah, we will. Another time. So he fell in love with this girl, Betty Coughlin, in high school. And why this was a big deal is because Betty Coughlin actually fell in love with his best friend,

Which is always tough. Always? Especially how he was a teenager? High school. High school. Yeah. Ooh, yeah. You can't get over that. You can't. Especially, he was also so obsessed with like dream and fantasy worlds. He grew up doing a lot of cartoons as a kid. He worked at a movie theater and just looked at these leading men and was like, I've got my leading lady. It's Betty. And she's like, actually, I want your best friend. Oh, it's always Betty too in like the 40s, isn't it? It is. Always. You Bettys. Wow. Fuck you. Fuck you.

Just kidding. I'm sure she's a sweet girl. Yeah, I'm sure she was great. And if your grandma or mom is named Betty, we apologize. Yeah, no hard feelings. No hard feelings. So he was like, this will never happen to me again, this heartbreak, and I'm going to completely reinvent myself. Truckers for Betty are here. Truckers for Betty, yeah. They're like, justice for Betty. Justice for the Betty.

He was going to completely reinvent himself and make himself into this manly man. And to do that, he turned to Esquire magazine, which was the magazine for men at the time. And like still is a V magazine. It's like she is chic, not necessarily just for men, but the magazine at the moment still. Yeah. Yeah.

Back in the day, they had hunting magazines, but this was a magazine for men that was about like culture and art and just more sexy. Do you know if Esquire at the time had women like in it or like articles featured about women?

They had these things called petty girls, which were like pinups. And it was actually named after the artist. I don't know his first name, but his last name was Petty. But it was, if you mean women in that way, they did. It was drawings, actually not even photos of women in like lingerie and bikinis. And like now we're like,

I mean, I'd probably post a racier picture on Instagram than that. For sure. But for the time, it was like... But for the time, that was like what you looked at. That's what the men took off to war to look at. God, in a drawing. How sad. You can't even get the real thing. You can't even imagine. So this is just like what a difference the world is in. Mm-hmm.

And he put them all over his walls too. He was obsessed with these women. His parents are like, we got to do something about this kid. Like we said, no drinking, no smoking. And this is what you can be masturbating out in the open. I don't want to talk to you. You do your thing, which I think is how a lot of parents probably are. That is true. I'll be my parenting style. Truly. And at this time. Yes. And at this time for sure. So he, you know, turns to Esquire, develops his persona. He goes off to college and,

And he starts working at a college magazine called Shaft, which... Gross. Gross. And I don't even think it was like a sexy magazine, but now you can't say Shaft without... No, and even that word is not sexy. It's not, but it sure makes you think about something. Hey, that's true. That's good marketing. Good for them. And Hugh Hefner was drawn to it, apparently. I'm sure he was. But so he was working at that magazine, just writing articles, putting cartoons in there. Yeah.

And in 1948, everything changed for him when a book came across his desk.

And it was called The Sexual Behaviors in the Human Male by sexologist Alfred Kinsey. And in this study, he showed that American men and women had a lot more sexual experience than most people were willing to admit. So there was affairs. There were same-sex experiences and multiple partners. And it made news across the country. And was this the first time it was widely even talked about, you think? I think so. And something else that you pointed out is...

Alfred Kinsey has the Kinsey scale. So that is the same guy? Probably. Probably. I mean, that's like, that would be rare. And if you want to explain what the Kinsey scale is. So the Kinsey scale is a theory that Alfred Kinsey discovered that tries to find a point on a scale from 1 to 6.

I believe, on where you lie sexually with your orientation. Exactly. From like one being straight. Yes. To six being you're solely into the same sex. Right. But say it. Everybody's a little gay. Yeah.

My favorite phrase. Truly. Which is true. I do think sexuality is very fluid. And it's a spectrum. And when people say that now, we have Kinsey to maybe thank for bringing that in. Absolutely. Not even in the 50s yet. No. That's revolutionary. So we've changed everything. And it was also crazy in the 40s, in the late 40s.

And in the 50s, men and women in Hollywood were not allowed to be shown in the same bed together. Not even if they were a married couple. But no one was talking about sex. No. And then this man comes out with a book and it's like, not only are people having sex, they're cheating on their significant others. They're having sex with the same gender. I wonder if there were like sex jokes on TV. I think...

Or innuendos? There has to be. We're human beings, and human beings have always leaned towards sex. Right. So it's like you can't show it, but you can still make little jokes about it. And then the laugh track. Absolutely. Like, but don't show them touching each other. Absolutely. And then everyone's like, oh, that was a sex joke. Fascinating. Yes. So, I mean, that changed everything for Hugh. And he was like...

by revealing the hypocrisy when it comes to sex. So when he was at this magazine, he started doing racy cartoons, writing essays about sex and challenging the conformity of it because he was like, sex... And this is where I will say I totally agree with Hugh Hefner.

Sex isn't shameful. It's the most natural thing in the world. How we talk about sex is shameful. How we put shame around it makes it uncomfortable and weird, but it's not sex. Sex isn't bad. Totally. And anything that is a taboo subject, and that kind of goes back to one of our episodes on prohibition, if you take something away or you don't talk about it, it makes it more desirable for everyone. Absolutely. And I think his interest in it is...

that he was like, let's at least, you know, put this on the table. Yeah, let's talk about it and not make it so weird. He was actually a virgin when he got married. Believe it or not, everyone, at 22, he proposed to his college sweetheart, Millie Williams. I believe her last name is Williams. And they were both virgins. They did everything but, which is very typical. Anal?

Everything but and but. Oh, wow. I mean, but you never know with these like – You never know. I mean, I feel like – Christian kids. Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. I feel like everyone will try everything except for like penetration just to say that like it's not sex. Which is so funny. Which I guess anal is penetration. That's true. But don't some people do say that? Oh, I'm sure they do. They're like it's not the hole where you can make a baby. Right. So he was getting a shit ton of blowjobs. Oh, blowjobs I bet all day. Yeah.

I bet. And I would like to say that I would hope he reciprocated, but I doubt it. I'm not so sure with you, Hefner. Back and forth, but thinking that he did or he didn't. Right, because he could either be like, I love going down on women, or he's like, nope, that's not a man's job. 100%. And I could see it go either way with him. Same, unfortunately. Unfortunately. So...

So that's just an interesting little fact about him in college. Also, something that he did at the magazine, though, is he started these little features in it called Co-Eds of the Month. And what he wanted to do was feature a girl on the campus, share her career info, her interests, what she was into, her statistics, which I don't know if statistics means like the grades she makes or like her body statistics. Right. I mean, like something tells me it might not be.

not be a big... But if it's a whole, like, you know, preview... It was. It was like a bio of, like, get to know this girl. Right. And isn't this also during the time where, like, women were first admitted to being able to go to college? Yeah. I mean, it's... Yeah. I forget when it, like, it was...

Turn that it was okay. That wasn't co-ed. I forgot. I mean, we're in like the forties. So I can't imagine there's, and I can't imagine there's too many like co-ed schools. Right. Interesting. So he did that and just hold on to that little fact because we'll, we'll go back to it later. We're foreshadowing here. Love a foreshadow. We love it. Um, so he's,

Like I said, I just am kind of skipping on this all over the place, but still a virgin. He's going to get married to his college sweetheart, Millie, and tell... Well, they still do. But she reveals to him that she had an affair as well. God damn it, Millie. And he... God damn it, Millie. You're getting fucked over by these women. Well, he... Millie and Betty, like, messed with his heart, and he was shattered. But also...

it's kind of interesting to think about someone cheating on Hugh and him not cheating on them. And this is also interesting. This might have scarred him and explain some things. Yeah. I mean, the conservative background plus like multiple heartbreak when you're that age, which you're so like impressionable. Yeah. Kind of makes sense why he had a certain thought about women. Yes, exactly. It doesn't make

an excusable. Like, maybe let's do some therapy. But could explain some things. For sure. Yes. Yeah. Just, you know, getting to know the person. So, the thing at the time, though, is, like, even if you have an affair, you don't really talk about it. And you're kind of like, we're just going to get married anyways. Right. Which is what they did.

So not off to a great start for his marriage, but it is what it is. Right. So in 1951, he actually lands his dream job at Esquire, which is just so cool for me. I'm like, you go, Hugh, because you dream about something and you read something as a kid and then you get to work there. That's like what the 1950s seemed like. Yeah. The American dream. The world is yours. Right. Well, also interesting that you bring that up.

It was his dream job, but after the war, so now we're in the 50s, after World War II, the whole country had become way more conservative. Right. And everyone is like this American dream mindset now. So he started working at Esquire and was like, wait, this isn't all the stuff that I thought it was going to be because I can't do my racy cartoons and I can't talk about sex here and all of that stuff. Right.

He asked for a $5 raise and they were like, nah. And he quits on the spot. Wow. Also, $5 raise is kind of bold. I know because I can't imagine that was not a lot of money back then. Right. Like...

Yeah. They're like, my mom's shaking her head listening to this. Yeah, just like, fuck you guys. You don't know how much $5 is worth in the 50s. Yeah, my mom's shaking her head about that and not about the rest of the things that we're talking about. Right, yeah. She's like, you know that? I was doing fine until you mentioned that. That took me over the line. So here's the problem is that he was working at his dream job. Everything was fine. Then he gets fired. At this point, he has a child. Right.

And he has a wife. And the wife is not working. It's the 50s. He's got to figure something out. So he was like, you know what? I'm going to make my own magazine. And it's going to appeal to guys like me. And it's going to feature articles about music, art, literature, culture. And we're going to address sex head on. Head on. Head on. Do you like a pun? Yeah. Yeah.

Mine's in the gutter now. What can I say? What can I say? Everyone's is. Welcome. It's a great place to be.

So remember those pinup girls that he loved? He was like, let's take it a step further in our magazine and let's have them completely nude. Dirty dog. Dirty, dirty dog. Now, there were some nude magazines back then, but it was mainly art stuff. So he was like, I want it to be editorial with an editorial message. And that message is that sex is okay. Got it. So every other magazine before this was like,

The magazines that you buy, like, secretly, just to... I don't even think that there was that many sex magazines at the time. I think if you wanted to see a naked woman, it was...

like artsy interesting there was some calendars but there wasn't any magazines with that there was like calendar girls that were nude but no like magazines that had that plus you're gonna see naked girls but let's have an interesting article in there as well playboy i read it for the mac for the article the article famous quote who said that

Or is that just like a thing? That's a thing. Like, everyone's like, oh, I get Playboy because of the articles. Like, sure, Jan. Yeah, yeah. Of course. Of course. Me too. Yeah. Definitely just the articles. So he and his friend, he gets his friend Eldon in, and they're like, let's make it. We're going to make this magazine and call it Stag Party. It's an aggressive name. It is. A douchey name, if you ask me. Yeah, really, though. Like, okay. Stag Party. And they're, as I'm looking at, like, a stag.

I do have that in my home. Yes. And their mascot was the stag. So they're like, let's get going. They start raising money. Their last investment was actually from $1,000 from his conservative mother. So funny. So weird. Because

Because, like, I don't allow you to dance in my home, but you're going to do Magazine Naked Girls? I'll give you $1,000. Yeah, yeah. She had some guilt. She must have. She was like, you know what? You've been, like, broken up with and cheated on, and maybe this is my fault. And you clearly have a fascination with naked women. Yeah. She's, like, shaking hand in a check. Yeah.

Like actually, and a thousand dollars is a lot of money back then. I still wish I had a better like grasp on the conversion. We need someone here to be converting money and time. Does anybody professionally do this for a living? Call us. Call us. We,

We won't call you, but you call us. Yes, your biggest. Your passion. Passion? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'd like to know. We'd like to know. We'll figure it out. So they develop their team, and they work out of Hefner's apartment. While he's married and has a kid and is making a magazine full of nude women, he also sells his furniture.

to get funding for everything, which I would be so... That woman, the patience Millie must have had. I mean, I'm sure it was a dark household. He just sells like the baby's crib. She's like, please. He's like, we need it for the magazine. So how do they make this magazine revolutionary was their question.

I love their first idea, which was let's put the magazine in 3D and attach 3D glasses. Because the 50s, 3D was everything. I did not know that 3D existed at this time. I didn't either, but people went crazy for it. It's our virtual reality. Yeah. Have you ever seen VR porn? No, have you? I sure have. An ex-boyfriend. Really? Yeah. We'll talk after the episode. We'll talk after the episode. Is it crazy?

It's crazy, guys. It's crazy. I'll leave it at that. I think I know. I'm like, oh, yes, yes. It's crazy, but I think that that's kind of like what they were going for, which I also think is a dangerous place when it starts getting too realistic. Right. I mean, even like you can argue there's a lot of issues with porn because of that exact reason of just like, let's get back to reality, people. Absolutely. Like, let's connect with humans one-on-one. Yes. Wow.

100%. But the thing that was the problem with that is that it would have been so expensive to attach 3D glasses to every issue. Especially for that time. I'm sure it was like $10 for a magazine. Also, it's like you lose. Do you attach 3D glasses to every magazine or do you get it there first? Like how do you? Right. Do you have to be like have a subscription? Yeah. A lot of marketing questions. Exactly. It's too much. Too many. So they were just like, honestly, we just need the perfect girl to be our cover star and our spread in the magazine. Smart. Yeah.

In the fall of 1953, I always do this. I'm going to lead you in in a different way. Ooh, guessing game? A guessing game. So in this time, the only way that you could get nude photos was primarily through calendar companies.

So calendar companies would take photos of nude models so you could buy it off of them. Unless you had your own photographer, but they're a startup. They can't afford to hire their own photographer, find models. So they have to buy from calendar companies at the time. There was a model that posed for a calendar and

And she was so beautiful that it was said that the photographer was so nervous, he forgot to change the film. And there are some images that are just double images and they're on top of each other. Oh my gosh. Because he was just so taken with her beauty. Jesus. That model's name was Norma Jean Baker. That model goes on to become...

Marilyn Monroe, the biggest star in the world at the time of 1953 when Playboy is coming out. Before she'd ever done a movie? Before she'd ever done a movie. Is this when she was brunette? She was like redhead brunette. Oh, yeah. And so when Marilyn Monroe was pre-movie star, she needed money. And so she posed nude for a calendar company. And her name at the time was Norwood Jean Baker. Okay.

Cut to 1953. She's the biggest star in the world. There's all this gossip going around that there's nude photos of Marilyn Monroe out. And she's already like a sex symbol. So can you imagine? This is like when we don't have social media, we can't get access to people's nudes on the internet, which is wild that it's just out there now.

Did she, like, regret doing it once she started to become famous from the movies? I don't know. Like, fuck, why did I do Playboy? Or was it like, this is good for my career? So there's rumors about these nude photos about Marilyn Monroe. And Hugh was like, we have to get them. I'm sure he was. I mean, what a way to start your magazine. Dirty paws off of those, Hugh. Yeah. So what a way to start a magazine. Yeah. He goes to the calendar company.

buys those images for $500. I don't think Marilyn, no, I know for sure, Marilyn wasn't paid a dime from that. I mean, I bet they never were. I bet they never were, which is so disappointing. Yeah. And you know, he, it's kind of crazy. It's like you just buy the rights to her naked body and put them in a magazine without having to ask her twice. I mean, this is like story of her life.

maybe yes and please like actually everyone taking advantage of her it's just like no control the Britney doc in the 50s so is that literally not much has really changed not much has really changed maybe recently but so sad yeah but these photos guys are so beautiful I mean she is just

Everything about her. It's her eyes. Like I see why the photographer was so nervous when he was. I'm going to pull it up. I'm going to pull it up. Taking that. She saw these sheets and like turned to the side and they were everything. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Um, so.

said later. Is there Photoshop back here? Because she does not look like she has one little dimple in her butt. I know, right? I don't know if there's Photoshop back then. It just all looks very, well, they're probably like the lens over, it's like you can pick up details. And the lighting and stuff is very soft. Actually, an interesting fact, Hugh Hefner is laid to rest next to Marilyn Monroe. Did

Did they ever hook up? I don't know if they ever hooked up. And it's so interesting because the documentary that I watched was very, like, in favor of Hugh Hefner. It's American Playboy on Amazon. What a weird one. Yeah, I bet. Because they do reenactments. But...

I don't know if they were friends or not or if he thought they were friends and she's like, you exposed my news. I could imagine you having that attitude with a lot of people being like, yep, we're super close. Go way back. And they're like, fuck you. He's that guy. He's that guy. He literally took advantage of me. Exactly. Dark. Well, hey, I wonder what they're talking about in the afterlife. In the afterlife.

So they're about to go with these pictures, public, but there's a little problem. There's a hunting magazine called Stag, and they were like, actually, you can't use our name because we'll sue you. They were a hunting magazine. Yeah, hold on.

So they were like, we got to figure out, we're a week away from publication. We got to figure out our name. Oh, damn. Which back then also you can't go on a computer and just retype stag party into another name. You have to cut out on the paper the name, put in another paper, redo all of it. Oh, God. Exhausting. And they had to completely rebrand. Well, they came up with the name because one of his business partners' mom had a car. All goes back to the mother. Always goes back to the mother. Yeah.

from a card company called Playboy. And they're like, that's a good name. Which, way better than Stag Party. Playboy is so good. Playboy is so good. You just like already have an image and that's from the brand that they built. But yes, you already know what a Playboy is. Yeah. It's like young and fun and they also needed a new mascot. They decided on Bunny because they thought that was sexual and fun, which,

I don't think of sex necessarily with bunnies, although there is this trailer that goes around Venice that has two bunnies having sex. Have you seen that? No, I haven't. It's very disturbing. I'm so sorry to even bring that up. Well, I guess it's like, is that, am I, what's the phrase? Like they're having sex like rabbits? Yeah, something like that. Or is that not the animal? No, I think that they're like multiplying as bunnies. Right, because you're just like bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. There it is. They go quick and they go fast. What if there's a vibrator named a rabbit?

Oh, yeah. So you're just very energized and sexual. They were right along. You're just humping everything you see. Everything you see. But they drew also the logo in four minutes that we see today. Wow. And it's iconic. It is iconic. Everyone knows it. It's iconic. Has it changed at all, you think? Well, in the beginning, it was just like a really weird cartoon drawing of a bunny. And eventually, they drew the logo after the first few issues. With a little bow tie. Yes, with a little bow tie.

And that little change came to define the magazine for decades. And now 700,000, or sorry, whoa, not that much, 70,000 copies were heading out to, mostly, right answers. Mostly. Mostly. Always on brand clear. Always, thank you. 70,000 copies were heading out to major cities around the country. And in December 1953, Playboy hits the newsstands. And in the first two weeks, it was virtually sold out. Wow.

Yeah, I bet you have a bunch of like horny fucking men that can't talk about sex. Probably some of them can't have sex. Absolutely. And now all of a sudden there's Marilyn Monroe who's naked. Let me get my hands on this. Right. God, I can't imagine. Like we are...

All of the biggest stars in the world we've already seen. Totally. Naked, pretty much. And I wonder when these men were buying it. You go to the store to buy it. I wonder the atmosphere in which it's like when you buy condoms. When you're like, I'm going to put some other things in here and here's a pack of gum. And then I wonder how many hid it from their wives versus...

Not? Just, like, not. I feel like everyone kind of hid it in a way. Yeah. It was, like, that thing where you, like, put it under your jacket. We ain't got to pay for it. Totally. Yeah, because I'm sure, like, any wife in the 50s wouldn't be like, I support you. Yeah, no way. No way. And everyone wants to be, like, perfect, you know? Totally. So, let's talk about some things that make Playboy what it is. Yeah. So...

Charlene Carlos was the only woman who worked at Playboy at this time, which I can't imagine being the only woman in the 50s to work at a company and it's Playboy. Yeah, she probably was...

Very harassed. Very. I mean, well, she ended up having an affair with Hugh Hefner. Right. Was that consensual? Who knows? I mean, I think there's some blurred lines in there. We will never know. We will never know. Also, he is still married and has two kids at this point. So as the issues are going out because they're having success...

They're like, we're never going to have a Marilyn again. But they still had to pick these nude women from calendar catalogs. Right. Well, Charlene was like, why don't we just get our own photographers and start doing it ourselves? Like, we're starting to have success. Let's do it. She's like, I could be like, you know. Actually, because Hugh was like, why don't you do it, baby? Yeah.

Was she young? She was beautiful. She was young. Yes, she was young. He was young at this point. I feel like I also always imagine Hugh Hefner on the verge of death. Same. I can't imagine him as a young man. Yes. Well, he was very scrawny. I want to look him up as a young man. Kind of bird-like, but not hideous. Bird-like? Every man's dream should be described. Skinny and bird-like. Oh, yeah. He looks very creepy. Yeah.

even when he's young, kind of. He fills out a little bit as he gets older. He has a huge nose. Yes, he does. Huge. He sure does. Picks up his entire face. We can say it because he did some nasty things, okay? Exactly. I'm like, hey, no judgment. No judgment. But also, wow. Well, so he's having an affair with her and is like, I like what I see. Sorry to be vulgar. But he was like, you do it. And she was like, what do you mean? And she ended up being Miss July. But

They wanted to make sure that the readers knew that she wasn't the normal model. She was the girl next door. Is that when that whole concept sort of came to be? Of like, if you're not glamorous, you're like super hot, but you have this sort of sweetness about you. I don't know if it came to be from Playboy. I don't know if they coined the term girl next door. Right. I think it was probably before that. Right.

that vibe is what they started going off of and making it, they wanted women who were more quote unquote approachable. Right. And like they took the idea. He had the idea from the co-eds that he did at the magazines. And he was like, let's do the same thing and call them playmates and do, um, like a story on them. Good marketing. It is good marketing. And, um,

if you're a lonely man and you see a naked woman, you want to act like, you know, her sure do. So I feel like giving the statistics and their personalities and what they like humanize them even more, which like, of course they're humans. Right. But a lot of men in this time probably didn't think of women. Absolutely. Like that. And if they just wanted to feel more connected to them, I guess. Wow. Yeah. So they started having playmates from that. She, uh, Charlene ends up being Miss July and the girl next door, uh,

They loved it. So they started going more in that direction. They also had to figure out this thing of getting the quality of photos in high resolution by making it bigger. But they couldn't do that back then. They wanted to see the boobies up close.

Who doesn't? I mean, boobies are gorgeous. You don't want to see them from afar. They're beautiful things. If you watch Real Hot Sides of New Jersey, the bubbies. Bubbies. Bubbies. So they came up with this little thing called the centerfold, which is where everyone knows it. It's iconic now, and they created it. I had no idea they were the first ones to do the centerfold. They were. And honestly, genius. Genius for, yeah, men being super detrimentally horny has given us something. Absolutely.

And like, I feel so safe by being like, or safe. I feel strongly to be able to say that is a genius idea. It can be problematic while still being a genius idea. Oh,

A hundred percent agreed. Right? Yes. Without getting all into it. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, we want to see something up close and personal. And that's the way to do it. Bigger and better. That's the way to do it. So in 1956, they published their first issue with the centerfold. And just after three years, Playboy was the number one men's lifestyle magazine, beating out Esquire, who three years earlier refused to give Hugh a $5 raise.

that he must have felt so vindicated. He must have. And also at this time, they're getting so much success. He starts living this bachelor lifestyle and he's just partying all the time. Is he still married? Yes. He starts having women around him all the time and it made him realize that he wanted to change the direction of the magazine on how to be a guide to be the ultimate bachelor, to be the playboy. He created the idea of the playboy and the bachelor. Wow.

It goes back to when he's like 16. Yes, exactly. He's still just trying to romanticize his life for him. Absolutely. Well, after a decade of marriage and two children, they got a divorce. I think that it lasted a decade though. But it's the 50s.

It's the 50s. I mean, at this point, he was not sleeping at home. He had a couch in his office. They're growing exponentially. But anything's not going to divorce at that time. Absolutely. You just don't do it. You just grin and bear it. And he was so absent in his kids' lives at this point. Like, I don't know how she lasted 10 years. But again, it was a different time. True. So as the magazine is growing, they wanted to figure out ways to include more people into Playboy. So they created a variety show. Yeah.

And that's just a way that viewers can view the magazine in the comfort of their own home. And there was only three channels at the time, CBS, NBC, and ABC. And it was on late at night? It was on late at night, yeah. But it was basically, it wasn't anything really raunchy. It was him hanging around with friends, with beautiful women around. Oh, he was in it. He was in it. He was truly like... He loves the limelight. He loves the limelight.

loves the lime white. There's so many things that it's like we could go deep dive into the psychology of Hugh Hefner. For sure. Maybe for another episode. Maybe for another episode and get a psychologist on here because I would love to dive in. They're like, you know what? It's very black and white. Like we don't really have much to say. But

He's not complicated. Yeah, exactly. So he was in it with, you know, just living the bachelor life on a TV show. But they also, and this is where I'm like, you can do good things while also being a sleazebag. Nat King Cole and Ella Fitzgerald were some of the performers. And the network was like, you cannot have them on because we can't air it in the South if you do that because they are black performers. And Hugh Hefner was like, I don't care. Don't air it in the South then, but they're going to be on there.

Wow. Which for the 50s is, you know, for a white male. Yeah. We shouldn't be so shocked and applauding it, but here we are. But for the time. But for the time, that's what it was. No one else is doing that. That's what it was. Also something about the Playboy lifestyle is he is very rich at this point. And he buys a 40-bedroom mansion in Chicago in 1959. I looked up how much for. $400,000. Wow.

thousand dollar mansion in 1959 that is nothing compared to now you can't even get a nice house in LA a 40 bedroom mansion 40 bedrooms 40 bedrooms they had a disco they had a theater they had a pool in the basement and for four hundred thousand dollars it could be used in 1959 wow oh yeah it was party central guests included Shel Silverstein Shel Silverstein

popped up all around Playboy. Really? And he was like the author of my childhood. That is, well, you know, at the end of the day, it's not that shocking. It really isn't. Um,

Bill Cosby is also a guest. That's where it gets dark. The Rolling Stones. Of course, it's just, you know, the lifestyle. Yeah, you felt cool going there. Absolutely. I'm sure it was a place to be seen. Absolutely. The third and fourth floors would become bunny dormitories where you could rent it out for $50 a month, which is... $50 a month? Yeah. But I guess without some playmates staying there.

So they stayed there and then you could have sex with them. I'm sure that's what he did. Got it. So it's the OG Playboy Mansion.

So they also featured pictures of this mansion and the parties and everything regularly through Playboy. And people were like, I have to go to those parties. Yeah. Which they did look like so fun. I'm sure. Like now it's just like a different time for even parties in general. Exactly. But like during that time, there's no social media. There's like everything's so extravagant. And everyone's feeling free. People didn't know as much about drugs. Uh-huh. What they could do to you. Wow. People were experimenting left and right. Yeah.

So it was a great time. So they were like, let's create a place where people can live the Playboy lifestyle. And so they opened on February 29th, 1960 in Chicago, the first Playboy club. And it was laid out like the Playboy mansion, essentially. It was only men could be members, which problematic. That was of the time.

Um, they have like key club members. When you went there, they put your name on, um, the wall to show who was there that night. And it was just this, like they had some of, um, pictures of the playboy magazines, like lit up. Oh,

And throughout. Cool. It sounded so fun. And I just looked up a picture of like the first like opening night and all of the Playboy bunnies have different colored corsets. Yes. And for some reason, I always just visualize them only in black. They were in all different colors. Well, so let's talk about the Playboy bunnies. Yeah, yeah. So the Playboy bunnies were who were the cocktail servers and the waitresses at the Playboy club.

And they dress in the iconic bunny outfit, which the costume is now in the Smithsonian. Sorry. The costume is now in the Smithsonian and has a copyright on the costume. I mean, it is. You have to admit it's iconic. And you also have to admit that you've always wanted to dress like one for Halloween. I will say, without any shame, I think that costume is sexy as hell and is so beautiful. It is stunning. It is stunning. It accentuates the woman's body to a T. To a T. Of the costume.

curves. And it's fun with the cufflinks and the bow tie. I'll say I think this Playboy Bunny outfit is sexy as hell. I think it is too. I want to do this for Halloween.

this year. I still do. Let's do it. Let's do it. Um, well, so it was a little, uh, tough life to be a playboy bunny. They all, they had auditions for playboy bunny waitresses. You had to be between like 18 to 24 years old. Tough. It's tough. Um, you are only allowed to use your first name. You couldn't be seen wearing jewelry first name. So you would go up to the table and you, you would say like, hi, my name is Tess and I'm your bunny for the evening. Um,

And it makes me a little excited. Same in a way I can't really describe. Like I'm, it is, I think it can be sexy while also being problematic. Exactly. Both things can't be true. Both of these things can't be true. So, um, they went through rigorous training led by the bunny mothers, which are something about that just seems upsetting. Make a horror film with like, they're kind of jealous of like the bunnies. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

They had training for four hours a day. On the documentary, it said training for four hours a day, six days a week. Jesus. You had to learn the bunny stance, which is how you stood with your drinks. The bunny perch, which is how you would like sit. You couldn't just sit a normal way. And the bunny dip, which is iconic. And it's where you lean backwards and set the drinks down in that way. Also while in six inch heels. It's like the original bend and snap. Absolutely. Wow.

So Gloria Steinem actually went undercover as a Playboy Bunny in the New York club for a month. So cool. A month? A month. Did she live there? I guess she lives in New York, but you didn't have to live at the club. You just worked there. How did, did no one know who she was at that time? I actually brought a picture to show you, but I can't show you right now, but she looks very different. So she like literally went undercover. She went undercover. Shall I talk about her revelations? Yes. Yikes. I'm scared. I'm scared.

So she goes there, she changes her age to 24 when she was actually 28 at the time. And the woman who was like, who she first met with, who was a bunny mother was like, yikes, 24. It's a little old, but let me see your body take off your coat. Not even joking. So she does that. Oh God. A requirement at the beginning of becoming a playboy bunny at the club was getting a medical exam.

Which included a pap smear. To see if you were a virgin or not? I don't know why they did that. My guess would be one of the rules as a Playboy Bunny was that you couldn't sleep with the men at the clubs. So I'm wondering, but I'm sure that happened. I'm wondering if they were checking them for STDs. Wow. Oh, I'm sure. Allegedly. They also don't want to lose customers. Absolutely. I'm sure they're all sleeping together.

have to be are you kidding me you think those men are going to come to a playboy club and not try to hook up with those ladies and I'm sure a lot of the men too that went there were like hot rich attractive men that the younger women were like why not why not I'm young let's do it um you know you're not young let's do it yeah um yeah and when she asked why the medical exams they said it's free and it's a it's good for everybody

I'm like, no. So no one knew except for her? Did she have someone on the inside that was like, I'm also helping you do this? No, she just went in and acted like, I'm here to be a Playboy bunny. Crazy. Crazy. Apparently, there were demerits, which could take off your paycheck. So if your ears were crooked, demerit, off your paycheck. Crooked? Yep. But they're supposed to be. It's cute. Yep. God. That's personality. Bunnies do have crooked ears in real life. Absolutely. If your tail is dirty, demerit, off your paycheck. Okay.

So she wrote about her experience and published it. And after that, he was like, you know, we could stop the medical exams and let's forget about all those demerits. I'm sorry. You're right. But I'm like, in the words of JoJo, it's just a little too late, a little too long, and I can't wait. Yeah, it's a little too late here. Yeah. And like once you're, it's kind of like fucking Justin Timberlake right now being like, you're right. Shouldn't have treated Brittany like that. I should have done that. Fucking 20 years later. Yeah, absolutely.

And let's not have the excuse of like it's the 50s. Like let's not make women get medical exams like that. It's very invasive. It's very invasive. But if it weren't for all that stuff, that sounds like a great fun time to wear those costumes. But I don't want to have to do the bunny dip. I'm way too clumsy. I'd never make it. Right. And I'm sure you're just having men touch you.

you. Yeah, it just seems tough. It's like romanticized version of it. Absolutely. And I think also, like going back to, you can have both fantasies of something. It's like, that's hot. I want to like wear that outfit and be serving drinks on it in the 60s. And then we can also be like, that was harassment. Absolutely. That you were enduring every day.

Wear that outfit and look hot while also not have men demoralize you. Yes, and touching you without consent. Absolutely. They also had some of the best entertainers at the Playboy Club. Aretha Franklin, Sam Cooke, Ray Charles, Bette Midler, Steve Martin did a set there. And some black artists say that's the only club they didn't have to go in through the back door.

Wow. And also, wasn't Playboy kind of revolutionary for its time with their advertisements of like... Or not advertisements, but they promoted pro-choice? Yes. So that's in the articles. Playboy was... That's the thing that is so tough. It's because...

While they were doing this to women, they were also promoting in their articles female contraception and that it should be used and available to people. They were promoting free and safe abortions. Right. Not free, but legal safe abortions. Yeah. So it's like...

Why can't you see that you're doing this, but you can't just because you're doing something good doesn't mean you can hold on to that. Exactly. You have to like across the board, evenly distribute your like power and your opportunity to speak to people in a right way. It's interesting because it's almost like truly the male gaze of like contraception has to do with men and sex.

Right. Abortion has to do with having sex with a man. But then it's like you put a woman on display by herself and she has to have her clothes off almost. Yeah. But again, like I will take articles in the 50s and 60s about safe female contraception and safe accessible legal abortions over nothing. For sure. Yeah. No, truly. Any day. Any day.

They also expanded internationally to the London Playboy Club, which London was the hotspot. In the 60s, 40% of their population was under 25.

God, that would be such a fun place to be in the 60s. And there was like the British invasion in America. So everyone wanted to be in London. Oh, God. And you could gamble. So they made it into a casino. So fun. So fun. So going back to like the articles that they did and the interviews, it was truly revolutionary. I know people say I read it for the interview, but it really was. Yeah. They interviewed Steve Jobs and Rand.

Bob Dylan, the Beatles, like everyone you could think of. But even deeper than that, they gave Malcolm X a platform in 1963 to have an article. And no one was giving Malcolm X a platform at that time, like a big national publication because he was pro-violence and he would say white people were the devil and all of that. But Playboy, Hugh Hefner was like, he still needs to have a voice in this. Yeah. And he was very pro-civil rights. Martin Luther King gave his longest interview ever for

to Playboy. So crazy. Oh, crazy. They must have had some good personable journalists that worked there. I think so, too. And also, it's like these men being like, let's kick back and talk. And also, no one had a publicist back then, so they weren't like... Right, so it's like, let's try it. Yes, exactly. Let's see. You can say anything. Wow. Jimmy Carter... Sorry. Yes, Jimmy Carter was the first presidential candidate to give an interview to Playboy, and he talked about the lust in his heart. Gross. Gross.

I don't want to hear about the loss of your heart, Jimmy Carter. Shut the hell up. But it truly like humanized him because people saw him as like this conservative candidate. And so like, oh, he's doing a playboy. He's not as strict as I thought he was. Right.

So they're growing exponentially, their company. He started another TV show in the 70s, in the early 70s. I'm so sorry. You're fine. The variety show in the 50s was very like suits and cigars, while this is like Summer of Love, Playboy. Wow. On the set, he meets, I think, the true love of his life, Barbie Benton. She was an extra in Playboy After Dark, the TV show. And he asked her out.

She said, I don't know. I've never been on a date with anyone older than 24. And Hugh Hefner goes, neither have I. Run, Barbie. Literally run. Also, like, I feel like some certain man has also said that to me. We're in L.A., of course. We've all heard it. We've heard something like that. Yes, they have. And it's disturbing. It is disturbing.

So she becomes a co-host of Playboy After Dark. She becomes his right-hand girl, and she's his muse. By the end of the 60s, one in every four college men subscribed to Playboy. So with LA, he's still living in Chicago at the time. He's flying everywhere. So he's like, I'm going to buy a commercial airline plane. And he does. Why not? Why not? And he calls it the Big Bunny. He bought it for...

Sorry, he bought it and reconstructed it for $5.5 million, which today would be over $38 million. Good God. Good God. It could sleep 38 people. It had a movie theater, a dance floor. One of the playmates said it was like a house. And, of course, there were jet bunnies. And these women wore black mini dresses, scarves, and boots. And they were modeled after the Bond girls. Wow.

The outfits are pretty cool. They're so cute. I gotta say. And there is an iconic photo of the Playboy bunnies and the bunny costumes like walking up. It was a jet black plane with a white bunny. It is pretty chic. I cannot lie. Yeah, it's not just this private jet. It's a commercial airline. Oh my God. So as this is expanding, he decides to move to LA. He needs a place to live. His girlfriend Barbie was hearing about this mansion in Bel Air. Sorry, Beverly Hills. And she's like,

She hops the fence at this mansion, walks up to the driveway, knocks on the door and says, would you ever consider selling this to Hugh Hefner? And they were like, sure. Yeah, why not? She's like, babe, I want that one. Yeah. Buy it. Buy it. So it sat on 5.3 acres on the edge of Beverly Hills. He buys it. He bought it for $1 million at the time. God. Which would be $6 million today, which...

Still is not that pricey. It's nothing because it's on 5.3 acres. He had the largest grove of redwoods in Southern California, a game house, tennis court, gym, a zoo, a place for specialty birds. Those poor animals. Yeah, like we've seen too much. Like, get me out of this dirty place. I don't like it. Put a blindfold on me.

He also was the only private residence in L.A., and I think still to this day, the Playboy Mansion is the only private residence that can have fireworks. He's like, we're setting this up to be a par-tay. I'm so sorry I just said par-tay. It's okay. You know, you're like Gen Z. Yeah. No, actually, that's probably more of a millennial thing. Very choogy of me. If you know, you know. Well, just like for a modern thing, in 2010, Hefner's former girlfriend, Isabella St. James, wrote in her memoir, Bunny Tales, that

Poor Archie. Poor Archie. I take that

Take me out. I know. It's literally like... It's five acres. It's a little grass we'll do. That's fine. Anything. Anything. Oh, God. I'm not surprised that that's how it was. It makes so much sense. In 2011, that's how it was. That's like the metaphor, I think, for the company, right? At this time. Right. Well, not 2000... Yeah, 2010. That's how it was, which is tough. But pre that, it was...

They took the mansion from Chicago and made it the party central and every celebrity was there. They said that actors used to schedule their shoot schedule around the Playboy parties. Do you remember the episode of Nearlyweds where Nick Lachey goes to the Playboy mansion for a party and Jessica's mad? Well, wouldn't you be? I would be, honestly. Especially during that time. It's like you go there to like- Rage. Cheat on people. Absolutely. Also, it's like, can I go? Right. Weird for your partner to be like, no.

Yes. And everyone knows about like the grotto and the nasty, like weird things that happen in the pool. And well, so later on in January, 2016, just to hop ahead, the Playboy mansion was listed for sale for $200 million and was bought for a hundred million dollars by Darren Metropolis. Metropolis. I don't know if that's how you say it. Right. But what a last name, the co-owner of the hostess brand, which is interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

So to get into this competition for Playboy, there was never a magazine at that time in the early years until Penthouse came along in 1969. We're going back to the 60s. Just talk about a little competition. It was their mission to take Playboy down. It sought to be a lifestyle magazine like Playboy. They even had their own version of Playmates called The Pets. Gross. Way worse name than Playmates. So much worse. Your pet? Yes.

Well, as I'm like, they did dress women up like animals, but. Right. But at least they didn't call them that. Just kidding. Just kidding. But I mean. In a way. But it's gross. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what they had that Penthouse or sorry, what Penthouse had that Playboy didn't was that they showed pubic hair.

Full circle. Full circle. And people loved it. People loved the Bush. People loved the Bush. Also, it's just like now we're like really seeing things. Yeah. Well, Playboy was like, we're not going to do that because they were afraid of being charged by the government for obscenity. And in fact, in 1963, Hugh Hefner was arrested for obscenity for an issue that they had with Jane Mansfield where she was...

naked, but in a picture with a fully clothed man. And they were like, that's enough. Good God. So that was what took them over the line. So we can't do that. But in 1969, the Supreme Court passed a law clarifying obscenity, basically being like, it's fine, whatever you do, as long as it's in your home.

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everything you need to make this process super easy and fun. And this should just be a pleasurable experience that you get to share with someone you love. And I'm really appreciative that Zola has just let us do that. There's even a five-star app that helps you plan on the go on your couch. So if you and your future husband or wife are watching a movie, having a glass of wine, planning

your wedding from the couch. Do it wherever you want because this is all about you. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to start planning at Zola.com. That's Z-O-L-A.com. You can thank me later. Oh, so they've got photo shoots in the house? So that you can look at the things in the house, which is like very weird. I don't really understand that at all. That's kind of like don't drink on the street, drink at a bar. It's like, we're going to drink on the street. Yeah.

Yeah. You're going to do, if you want to do something, you're going to do it wherever you want. Truly. So, Playboy didn't really have a choice at that point. They're like, well, we got to catch up to Penthouse. So, in 1971, a new, more revealing Playboy hit the stands, and Liv Lindeland showed more than any Playmate had before, and they loved this. On the cover or inside? On the cover. Good question. I think it was...

That's a good question because there wasn't many naked photos on the cover. Right. It usually was like suggestive. Yes. And she was to the side and they went even further when Marilyn Cole from the London club did a full frontal photo shoot. She was the first one to stand up, show her whole body full frontal. And from there, they never went back. Wow. I'm sure they didn't. How can you go back after that? People are like, I'm good with

with seeing that actually. And it's so crazy because we're so used to seeing sex everywhere on HBO shows and everything that we're not, Full Frontal was revolutionary. Quick side note, do you think the Bush will come back? I think it will. Yeah, because like that's kind of how we go like in those waves. I think that it definitely, I think that everything always is just like a loop-de-loop of what it will be. Interesting. You can have your thoughts on that. Yeah, we'll keep it there. We'll keep it there. Carry on. Um,

So we can also talk about some oppositions. And in the late 60s and 70s, there was a woman's liberation movement. We love that. We love to hear it. We love to see it. We love to see it. They did not love to hear or see Playboy. Not at all.

So they argued that Hugh Hefner was, their centerfolds were degrading and objectifying to women. They thought he was the leader of the patriarchy, which they weren't wrong. Right. And I, and it's also like, they can't have any like, it's not so black and white at that time. It's like, it is. It is. It has to be. Yeah. A hundred percent. And they're not showing any other, they're just showing women. Right. Right.

They're not showing men. Exactly. He thought that he was doing a good thing by promoting healthy, safe sex and all that stuff. But they were like, you're doing it all through the male gaze. Yes. On the Dick Cavett show, Susan Brown Miller and Sally Kimpton, who were leaders of the women's liberation movement, sat down with Hugh Hefner. And from the minute he referred to them as girls...

It was game over. Well, yeah. Don't do that. He was like, said something about girls. They're like, we're not girls. We're women. And he was like, I just call women of all ages girls. And they're like, well, stop. Yeah. That's the problem right there. Yeah. And they basically tore him apart and were like, the minute that you can come out here in a cottontail, that's when we can talk. Fair. Fair. And fair because he actually did write something in his own magazine about

Oh, God.

So it's just tough all around. Yeah, it's not okay. No, it's not okay. And in an interview with McCall and Gloria Steinman, his closing arguments to McCall readers, which was a huge feminist magazine, was, bye, Playboy.

He's like one of those guys that's like, feminists have hairy armpits. That's exactly what it is. And it's gross and I've never put that in my magazine. That's exactly what it is. When now we know feminism gives you the choice to pose nude for a man if you want or to not. Yes. But give us that option. And just not judge other women for their choice as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, you. So...

are, I think with the Women's Liberation Movement, things are changing. Things are starting to decline. They've extended themselves far too far. Far too far. Far too far. They started doing a record deal, publishing company, resorts. It was just too much. And they're starting to

to bleed money. There's also more naked magazines in the market and Penthouse kept going further. They started featuring men actually in their photos. And I was just going to say, like, if you're changing with the time, that's going to become more popular. And if you're back in like a misogynistic territory, people are going to be like, this is from the 50s. Absolutely. And they were showing also things like women on women and Playboy was like, well, we'll try to go a little racier too, but they remained with just women. And

Their cover was actually a woman watching a movie with her hands in her pants. And it made their advertisers actually be like, we never agreed to this. We said that Playboy was more classy one. And now you guys are losing your mind. They're like, nipples are fine, but female masturbating? How disgusting. It doesn't exist. Can I put it out there?

So they were just trying their best and it wasn't succeeding. That's how it seems. It just, yeah, it was not. So in the 80s, things are getting super dicey, even at the casinos, which is their biggest cash flow. It was bringing them in $26 million annually, but they had to shut everything down because of some dicey stuff that they were investigating. I don't know how to explain that better because when I was watching it, I was like, I don't get this.

Yeah, they basically, and I don't think. I don't even know really what that entails, but that just seems like. Watch Ozark and you will. There we go. But I think that I was watching it basically being like, we want to take Playboy down. Things look dicey in the casino. And I actually think that it was proven that it wasn't, but they were like, we can't afford to do all these investigations and stay open. We're closing it down. Got it. So it's one of their biggest cash flows. Yikes.

You might not know this name. You might know the last name. Well, Christy Hefner was Hugh Hefner's daughter. And she's a grown woman at this point because she was born in the 50s. What a complicated relationship. Can you imagine? And also being, yeah. She seems to really love her father, but wow. What a complicated relationship. Oh, whoa. Yeah.

That's not what I expected her to look like. Yes. The family has some interesting genes. I'll tell you that much. They sure do. So they sure do. I'm not a terrible person. Well, I know. We'd like to be a little terrible sometimes. Yeah. So Hugh named Christy Hefner as president. She joined the company after college and didn't expect to stay more than a year or two, but becomes so involved. She started at an entry level position and seven years later was made president. She actually did a lot of good for the company. Oh, did she? She made major cuts, uh,

She, you know, stopped some of the, she stopped the publishing house. She stopped the record label. She's like, let's stop making stupid ideas. Right. It's like these guys were like, and this, and this. Yeah. And she's like, let's quit while we're ahead. Yes. Exactly. Shut up and listen to me for once. For once. For once.

Well, something that was big in the 80s and the early 90s was cable TV. Right. You have to pay to have a subscription. So they started Playboy TV Network. Another huge thing that helped was getting celebrities on the cover of Playboy. That had never been a thing before. That's crazy it took so long. It's crazy it took so long. An interesting little fact is that...

Vanessa Williams had actually just won Miss America. There was... A beautiful angel. Huh? Beautiful angel. The first black Miss America. There was rumors that she had nude photos around. She took the photos thinking they were just silhouettes. They were not. And...

They were shot to Playboy without her will. Playboy actually turned them down and said, we are not going to ruin the career of Miss America. Wow. The first black Miss America. But Penthouse took them. Fuck Penthouse. I didn't like them since their little pet names. Yes, exactly. Do you think Christy had something to do with that? Do you think her coming into the company was a good...

Like, was she a feminist? I would like to think so. Yeah. I would be so curious to hear her views on Playboy and, like, her views on feminism. Reconstructing the company. Yeah. And modern feminism. Totally. Because she's also born in the 50s and that's your dad. One might not think that you have the most radical. And he was very absent. Yeah. Yeah.

So some of the Playboy cover stars, Cindy Crawford, Drew Barrymore, Paris Hilton, Madonna. I mean, there's so many. Dolly Parton. There's so many legendary people. And I would want to buy a Playboy that has an in-depth interview with them on the cover. Of course. And a Nicole Smith that launched her career. And that's how guests found her was from Playboy. Yeah.

Also, a playmate that he found in this time, he vowed he was never going to get married again, but then he met Kimberly Conrad, who is hot as hell. Hot as hell. Hot as hell in 1989, and they had two kids, Cooper and Marsden. They were married for nine years. He bought the house next to the mansion for her after they divorced, but the kids grew up in the Playboy mansion. One of them went to my college.

That is crazy. Yeah. I remember seeing him so specifically once walk into the cafeteria. Someone was like, oh, that's your son. I was like, oh, like very shy, very just like have to himself.

I mean. Jaggy, blonde, just like kind of looking down all the time. Holly Madison in her book, Holly Madison was one of his later girlfriends, said that the rooms that some of the girls would stay in when they weren't there, the boys would stay in them. And that's just like a weird dynamic. So weird. It's so weird. I just can't. They seem like from what I've seen on interviews, they seem.

grounded level-headed boys though right I mean that could all be from their mother who later married oh he she later married Quincy Jones Quincy Jones yeah and I need a memoir from her ASAP I mean she probably does she have one I mean we will buy it we will buy it we'll buy all these memoirs we'll do a book club oh absolutely

So that really changed the game and got Playboy back on track. And lastly, as we're getting into the early 2000s, how do you keep Playboy relevant and in people's homes? Our own version of the modern variety show? Reality TV, baby. My bread and butter. We would not be here today. I would not be the woman I am today without reality TV. And, you know, they had to stay relevant because porn's everywhere at this point. But this

invited people into the homes as they created the show, The Girl Next Door. And it highlighted his girlfriends, Holly Madison, Kendra Wilkinson, and Bridget Marcadart? Who knows? I'm so sorry. And Bridget would be the one that I forget. Right. This probably happens to her a lot. I'm so sorry, Bridget. But it was...

Just because they were their girlfriends didn't mean that they were playmates, but they ended up being playmates and on the iconic cover of Playboy with the black sheets. We all remember that one.

So people, and also for the first time, got females really involved with Playboy. Right, because you want to be them. You want to be their friends. They're funny. It's relatable. Yes, it's like humanizing women more, which is how it should have been all along. Well, their tagline, it says, we call it fantasy, they call it home. Wow. A lot to unpack there. There's a lot to unpack there. You know, just an interesting article, or interesting little fact as we're wrapping this up.

When questioned if they had to sleep with Hugh, Holly says yes. Kendra claims she never slept with him. Isn't there something that one of them would start to get him off? I'm sure. I'm sure all the things that you're picturing...

And they all met him through like parties at the Playboy Mansion. And he essentially was like, you, I want you to be my girlfriend. There's some dicey things. Like he had a 9 p.m. curfew for all the girls. He made them get in like flannel pajamas. This is all from Holly Madison's book. And do like a bedtime routine, which is troubling. But.

If we're going to... No, we can't ignore that. You just can't ignore that. But again, like, the parties at the Playboy Mansion just look crazy. I'm sure. And during this time, you saw that on a reality TV. He had a credit card open at a plastic surgeon's place in a salon. Like, what a weird time. When I'm watching it, I'm just like...

How could this have been? How could this have been? Because this is the early 2000s. This show would never be out now. Oh, my God, no. Never. Imagine pitching it. No, you can't. Being like, so I have three girls. They're not allowed to date other people. I'm allowed to fuck whoever I want. And that is the problem with all of his girlfriends. Going back to Barbie, she was like, if you...

He's allowed to date other people and I'm not. Fuck that. I'm out. That seems to be the overall theme as like we try to interpret Playboy of like, sure, he had this idea. He knew his market. He knew his audience. However, you can't have that without having things for everybody and being inclusive. Absolutely. So it's like at first when you were talking about this, I was like, yeah, he's sex positive. That's great. I had a really like, okay, I'm going to give this guy a chance.

But then as you're leaving the 50s and 60s and you're still like, nope, just women. We're not going to talk about gay people. We're not going to talk about female fantasy. You have to evolve with the times. And they did have articles about AIDS that actually said how it spread. But if you're not going to feature women,

Gay people. Right. Then, you know. Because that would be them taking a risk and a chance to be like, we'll have this article and guess what? We're going to put this person on the cover because that's what sells. And they're not doing that. So they're kind of being fucking shady. And sex isn't just for men. It's for everybody. Exactly. In all sexual orientations. Right.

So in the end of his life, he married Crystal Harris. They said his people around him were like, they spent so much time together. And I'm like, well, I'm sure he did. He's like, let me get a million blowjobs before I die. I'm also like, what else can he do at that point? Land there. Yeah. Yeah.

His gross little mansion. Exactly. He died in September 2017. His wealth was distributed between his four kids and Crystal. I think I should have talked to that kid at USS. Yeah. Like, Joe, what you doing after class? Absolutely. But, and like, honestly, she got it at the very end because she had to, she got it best because she had to spend the least amount of time with him and then got the wealth. So, Playboy now. In 2011, the London Casino opened back up.

It brought in $1.5 billion in 2016. Playboy is the third most recognizable brand in the world after Coca-Cola and Apple. Crazy. And that is something. You start in the 50s and you are still the most recognizable brand in the world. And you're based on sex. That's crazy. It's insane. In 2015, Mr. Hefner...

Again, every time I say Mr. Hefner, I'm like, please don't do that to anyone. You're like, I must respect him and his life during this podcast. They agreed to stop publishing images of naked women in 2015 to broaden its audience. But in 2017, they did an about face and brought back the nudes.

Which again, like bring back the nudes, bring back the nudes. Nudes aren't bad if it's inclusive for everybody to get off on them. And I can see, I think that it's a very empowering thing to show off your body. If you want to do it, as long as you feel comfortable and respected. Absolutely. Um, they also dropped the subtitle entertainment for men, um, in a way to show that gender roles have evolved. Um,

In March 2020, Ben Cohen, CEO of Playboy Enterprises, announced that the spring 2020 issue would be the last regularly scheduled printed issue. And it's a very different magazine today. It's way more inclusive, and I think it's actually more of the brand that I would like to see. Right. Well, at least they learned. It took them six months.

60 years. It is. I encourage you to go check out their Instagram because like their merch, I'm all about. It's very, and they are more inclusive with different sexual orientations and something that we're screaming at him throughout the story the whole time. I think they're starting to figure out and do. For sure. And you know, at least they got there at some point. Absolutely. So that is the history of Playboy. Fascinating.

I mean, truly. There's so much to discuss. I'm really excited to hear what y'all's thoughts are on this. Yes. And like what your perception was before, especially like for women growing up, like what your parents maybe said to you about it. Absolutely. Conversations you had with your friends about it. Cause like, I know for me, it was just like,

Gross. Men are disgusting. Right. And again, I think with a lot of things we can go in and say it can be disgusting while also being revolutionary. 100%. Both things can be true. Which I think is an overall theme for our episode so far. Absolutely. Guys, thank you so much for joining us.

Guys, thank you so much. Let us know what you want the history of. Yes. Send us your, yeah, send us what you want to know about, your thoughts, your feelings. We want to dive in. Like and subscribe. Please do. Share it. Tell your friends. Absolutely. And we'll see you next time. Thanks, guys. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.