The Explosive Marriage of Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner
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Hello, Rammies. Okay, we are still in the desert celebrating Tessa's wedding, but we wanted to give you another preview of one of our premium history episodes. And this week we are bringing you the explosive love story of Ava Gardner and Frank Sinatra. If you want to get this full episode ad free, you can join our premium channel, which is in the show notes. With premium, you get three bonus episodes a month and

you know how I said earlier that we were in this desert celebrating Tessa's wedding. Yeah, we are doing a full wedding recap. That will be one of your April episodes. So if you want this episode and more ad free, join our premium channel and the show notes. Enjoy.

So I'm doing Ava Gardner and Frank Sinatra's marriage. Love. Which I've been wanting to do for a while. I think someone suggested it a while back. We almost did this. Yes. Okay. Did you almost do it? Sorry. Because you downloaded Vanity Fair. Mm.

Yes, I know you remember to cancel that. So I remember reading the Vanity Fair article about them. And I was about to do it. And then I decided not to because I was like, I don't know if this can be a full episode. It's perfect for premium. But I don't remember anything because this was like two years ago. I almost am like, hopefully this won't be too long. Because I kind of thought that would be perfect too. And it's like...

there's so much to these two, which I think that we have to do individual episodes on the main feed on both of them at some point. That would be so fun. We should. Yeah, exactly. Because they're just fascinating. That would be so fun. Okay, so what do you know about Ava Gardner, Frank Sinatra, their marriage? I don't really know much, to be honest. Like,

I'm like, what movie was she even in that I know? I don't think I've ever seen any of her movies. She's in Barefoot Contessa is one. I don't think I've seen any of her movies. I know that she's Gorge. And then Frank Sinatra...

He's kind of triggering me right now. Listen. You know why? Why? Every interview where Trump is like, or they ask who his favorite singer, he's like, Frank Sinatra always, only Frank Sinatra. And I'm like, gross. Gross. So I'm kind of like, ugh. He would. But actually, Frank Sinatra would hate Trump's politics. Okay, that's good. Yeah. Was he a liberal king? He was, which I was kind of surprised about. He was very liberal, though. Okay, okay. Yeah, so we appreciate that. But you can still be liberal and be trash.

Ain't that the truth? Ain't that the truth? So, God, it's just all the men in old Hollywood. I mean, it's, yeah. We're so tough. Well, Ava Gardner, I feel like I've always had a connection to her because there's this photo that she looks so much like my grandma. And I remember my mom telling me that. And like ever since then, I was like, I love this woman. She totally does. I could see that. She's gorgeous. And then Frank Sinatra. I had a babysitter growing up who was obsessed with a rat pack. And I was like, oh.

And she's like this high school girl. Classic. She's obsessed with the wrap package. She's like wearing fedoras. Like vests. And I roll up and she'd be like snapping her fingers. Yeah, yeah. I can see perfectly. So I like heard about him when I was a lot younger with like Sammy Davis Jr. Yeah. And Ben, what's his name? Dean Martin. Yeah, but that's like all I really knew. And then, you know, the Mia Farrow of it all, that he was married to Mia Farrow too. Oh, that's right. God, they all were like so incestuous. So incestuous. But-

We'll get into all of it. So here we go. Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner. Okay, so my sources, Vanity Fair. Love. I got to cancel that subscription. People. Love. Wikipedia. Hollywood crime scene podcast. We've used them before. We love them. We have. And that's about it. We love. It's a very chic list. Very Hollywood. Okay, so let's get into it, kids.

So for three explosive years, Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner fueled headlines, fascinated a nation. This quote said, and broke up the furniture. What does that mean? I don't know. But they're free for all affair. He was known as The Voice. She was known as The Goddess. Wow. Can you imagine like that being your title? The Goddess? Someone she'll live up to. But does she? I know. She is a goddess. She didn't even have to try. So the old showbiz gossip columnist Liz Smith said,

Quote, if I had to go back in Hollywood history and name two people who were most desperately and passionately in love with each other, I would say Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner. But they were never married? They were married. Oh, they were? They were married, yeah. Okay, I thought they just had an affair the whole time. No, they were married. So that's a bold statement to say because there's a lot of big Hollywood loves. Oh, God, yeah. I mean, I think of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Bruton. I know, same. Yeah.

Okay, so first we're going to start off with a little backstory of each of these two. So let's start off with Frank Sinatra. Francis Albert Sinatra was born on, do you want to guess the sign?

Is he a Leo? It is a fire sign, but it's not a Leo. Is he a Scorpio? That's a water sign. Oh, fuck. Is that every time? Well, Scorpios are the fire water sign. He's a Sagittarius. Oh, makes sense. Never wants the party to end. Exactly. So he was born December 12th, 1915 in Hoboken, New Jersey. He's the only child of Italian immigrants, Natalina, but they called her Dolly, and Antonio Martino, Marty, they called him Marty Sinatra.

He was a boxer. He boxed under the name Marty O'Brien, and he eventually became a fireman, but his dad was illiterate his whole life. Oh, wow. Which I just think is fascinating. It's like our Dolly Parton episode, like these people who become the best

biggest stars in the world and like what they rose from like the fact that their parents were illiterate their whole life like such different experiences yes it's just wild and yeah his parents were first generation first generation are the people who moved over right yes they immigrated from Italia Italia Tess he was 13.5 pounds when he was born oh

I did the same face. Is that even possible? I've never heard of a baby that big before in my life. That seems like dangerous. Yes. Well, okay. Was his little heart okay? He had to be delivered with the aid of forceps.

Which like, okay, so he had to be delivered with the aid of forceps, which caused severe scarring to his left cheek, neck, and ear. And it damaged his eardrum, which remained damaged the rest of his life. I guess when he came out, he wasn't breathing. And his grandma had to resuscitate him by running him under cold water until he gasped for air. Oh, God. Yeah, I guess this is 1915. I'm like, somebody help her. They're like, you know. He must have been a home birth then. Yeah.

13.5 pounds. That's so sad. The fact that he was in a C-section. That's like double what the average baby is. Yes. That's like an eight pound baby is a big baby. Oh, God. Yeah. So 13.5 pounds. I can't believe it. I know. I was so shook by it. And he ends up being such a skinny, small man the rest of his life, too. Jesus Christ. We have that like how? Oh, my God. He just like peaked in babyhood. Like truly. Yeah.

So crazy. So, okay. His mom is incredible. She became influential and Hoboken in the local Democrat party. Hot. She was a suffragette. Hot. She was a midwife, but she also ran an illegal abortion service. That's incredible. Yeah. So she would help women, you know, get safe abortions or safe for the time. She was probably like, after what I went through having to deliver a 14 pound baby, I'm going to do whatever I can to help women. Literally.

though. She just seems like a liberal queen. She was like an interpreter for Italian immigrants who needed help in court. I don't know. I'm kind of making the court stuff up. Yeah, that makes sense. It makes sense to me. Also, she ran the legal abortion services that catered to Italian Catholic girls. So I feel like girls who would have no guilt about it. Exactly. Wow, that's incredible.

I know. So I love that. The Sinatras owns a mob connected bar. Hot. And Frank Sinatra, I think, was connected to the mob like his whole life. I could see that. He also was like eventually really good friends with JFK and Joe Kennedy, JFK's dad. And I think all of them were involved in the mob.

Wow. And there was like some dicey stuff going on about like when Kennedy got elected to something. I don't know. We have to do Kennedys. We will do a Kennedy month. We really will. We will. But it's so interesting. I love when...

Especially old Hollywood and the Kennedys. They were so in the presidency and government, but also so in Hollywood. I know. It was the perfect mix of drama. Yeah. We don't see that as much anymore. No. Now we just see reality stars running this country. Yeah. That's a really scary thing. We hate that.

So that sucks. But they had this mob connected bar. And from a young age, Frank was like super interested in music and like big band jazz. And he would like sing at the bar. And when he was young, too, people were like, holy shit, this kid has perfect pitch. Wow. Like he's good. Like David Foster. Like David Foster. I feel like they would be. I wonder if they met. Probably.

I'm sure they did. They seemed like they would be best friends, and I would like to not be in that room. No, it wouldn't feel safe. It would not feel safe. To be honest. Okay, so as a teenager, he decided to become a singer after watching Bing Crosby perform in the 30s. So Frank was a member of the Glee Club at school. I could see that.

I can see that. And in high school, he began to sing at local nightclubs. He left high school without graduating. He only attended 47 days before being expelled for general rowdiness. Have you seen a young Frank Sinatra? Uh-uh.

He would... Is he a class clown? No. He's like, you look hot and you would destroy me. Oh, so kind of like predatory. Not predatory. Just like when you're a young girl and there's that hot, rowdy boy that you're just like... Kind of like greasy hair, but you're like, I like it. Yes. God, I would love to be a part of that.

I understand. Yeah, I do. I think that was his vibe. In New York, he found jobs singing for his suppers or for cigarettes. So he was just like a waiter singing. Love. And one day while working as a singer waiter at a club called the Rustic Canyon, there's this like famous band leader named Harry James. He noticed him. Harry James said, quote, suddenly he took off his apron and climbed onto the stage. He sung only eight bars when I felt the hairs on my back.

When I felt the hairs on the neck of my... Oh, my God. When I felt the hairs on the back of my neck rising, I knew he was destined to be a great vocalist. Wow. So all of a sudden, he was like, who is this kid? Which his voice is crazy. His voice is really good. I almost can't even picture it right now for some reason. It is. It's pretty spectacular. Yeah. You know that there's...

He has that song called My Way. I did it my way. There's this thing. Men love that song. They love that song. Isn't that Mr. Big's favorite song in Sex and the City? I'm sure it is. Remember he plays it for her? Someone else. Oh, they played it at Studio 54 when they were getting arrested. Yeah, classic. Classic. So...

There's this thing in the Philippines that – because karaoke is really big in the Philippines. And there was a My Way murder. And it was like the string of murders after men would sing My Way, they would end up getting murdered. Isn't that crazy? We should cover that. We should definitely cover it. That would be actually a great premium episode. That's insane. Isn't it? And it's like not that long ago. It was insane. I know. Then he marries his childhood sweetheart.

Her name was Nancy Barbato in 1939. So she becomes Nancy Sinatra Sr. Nancy and Frank started their relationship way before his career takes off. She was 17. He was 19. They met. I love a decent age gap.

Yeah, they were like knew each other as kids. Yeah, yeah. They met in Long Branch, New Jersey, which was a seaside town where both families spent their summers. They end up having three kids together. So Nancy Jr., which Nancy Sinatra drinks, sings These Boots Are Made For Walkin'. She's their original singer. It all goes back to Jessica. It all goes back to Jessica. So we have Nancy Jr. And she was born in 1940. Then they have Frank Sinatra Jr., born in 1944. And then they have Tina. They're like, eh, Tina's fine.

I love it. It's from Nancy Jr., Frank Jr., and then Tina. Tina Simpson. Wow. Wow. It all goes back to Jessica. It just does. It just does. So they had three kids together. During their early years of marriage, she would stay home, be home with kids, be like a normal housewife, and Frank would go out and be like, I got to start making a name for myself, babe. Well, yeah. That's the only way to network. Go out and tour. She would kind of...

accompany him on tour sometime, but she also had to just go be a mom, which it was just so different back then that it's like, yeah, I'll stay home and completely raise our kids while we hardly ever see you. Yeah, and it was like, you're not even upset about it. You're like, that's the way it is. Exactly. We see that in Walk the Line, that movie. I was just thinking of Walk the Line. It is so similar to this where she, it's completely different lives. She starts hearing stories about her husband's infidelity. Color

me shocked. Yeah, exactly. She stood her ground for a time and was like, hey, stop this. But then it's like, what can she really do? And he doesn't really have respect for fidelity for the rest of his life.

Well, if no one's really – if you're put in that position of like you can do whatever the fuck you want, you never have to see your kids, you don't have to be a husband, no wonder these men were just like, whatever. It's crazy. But also in this time – I mean, it's terrible, but like – No, it is. But also in this time, like no one talked about it and they just presented as like this –

cookie clean or what is that cookie cutter clean cut yep um man I just wish the women were doing the same thing same like I like I'd almost be like whatever everyone just it was like a different time but the women should be then cheating too the fact that she had to stay home and raise her kids while he got to just go have fun is so annoying so annoying yeah

so his career is really starting to build he's touring with James and Tommy Dorsey who I don't really know who they are but apparently they're a big deal and then he was like okay now it's time for me to write solo and in 1942 that's exactly what he did he began a series of performances at the Paramount Theater in New York City and they were just attended by thousands of young girls that would scream his song so like

He was pre-Elvis. He was pre-The Beatles. But I feel like he was the guy who really started that of women just like – Fandom. Fandom. Obsession. Obsession. And it's like that video we posted around Elvis of Frank Sinatra and Elvis singing together. Oh, yeah. And it was like the same – it's like the same vibes, just different generations. Damn. Yeah.

Yeah, so he's really getting that going. He was dubbed Swoonatra, and he was swept into a world of movie contracts, radio shows, and he's constantly partying and being surrounded by the ladies. He's living the high life in Hollywood while his family's just waiting for him at home. He's like, who? Literally. So I think they're still in New York or New Jersey, and he's basically living in Hollywood, which is crazy. God.

I think he signs with RKO first, and then he signs to MGM. MGM will always get you. MGM will always get you. And then I think that's like when they become drug addicts. But if I had to choose any movie studio back then, I would choose MGM just for the clout. It was like the – Exactly. I just feel like they were the studio. What about 20th Century? They were big too. Is that like a little bit below? No, I think they were all big, but MGM had Elizabeth Taylor. I know. Judy Garland. Judy Garland's like –

Frank Sinatra. It just sounds really chic too. Exactly. It's like the CAA at these times. Exactly.

Okay, but Tess, he also had extreme OCD. OCD. He's like... I'm trying to enunciate. These men. These men. It's like Howard Hughes. I know. So he showered up to four times a day. He changed his shirt and underwear every few hours. He washed his hands. I feel like you'll get this reference more than I will. He washed his hands every few hours, so much so that his bandmates nicknamed him Lady Macbeth. Oh.

Oh, out damn spot. What is, oh. After she kills him, she, then for like weeks and months later, she keeps seeing blood on her hands. Oh. And so she like is compulsively trying, she goes, out damn it. Oh. Yeah. Well, apparently he was surrounded by a bunch of theater kids. As in everyone. Of course. Whether you like it or not. Glee club to like jazz band. Of course. The energy must have been.

Totally. Disgusting. So he was like pretty intense with all of that stuff. Yeah. And he did have a bad temper and he was often very depressed. He took antidepressants for most of his life. But to the outside world, he was the king. It's always the downfall. Exactly. So now let's talk about Ava Gardner. Our girl. Our girl. Ava Lavinia Gardner was born on December 24th, 1922. Wow.

I think it's either the last, because, okay, Jesus is a Capricorn. I think. Is Jesus a Capricorn? I guess that makes sense. Well, yeah, because Capricorn's right before Aquarius. And my sister's a Capricorn. She's January's. I think Jesus is a Capricorn. Okay. So I would assume Ava Gardner is also a Capricorn. Ava's such a pretty girl.

And being born on Christmas Eve, I think it's so chic. That is really chic. Isn't it? Like, I wouldn't like it. But God, it is chic though. Christmas Eve is so much better than Christmas Day. No kidding. Yeah, because then you can like actually have like a fun party. Exactly. It could be fun as you get older. As long as people don't do the thing of this is your Christmas present and your birthday present. It has

to be two that's not fair it's cruel I completely agree so she was born December 24th 1922 so they were 1915 1922 so that's seven years yeah yeah nice wow she's women in stem

She's here to impress. Seven years difference. But sometimes it'd be like that. It's hard. It always is. It always is. I was able to use my hands. Same. Use my fingers. Same. I hate at school when they told us we couldn't do that. Why? I literally had to use my fingers today. I was like writing a little note for someone. A little gift. Oh. Exciting stuff. And I was like, we've been friends since 2018. And I was like, 2019, 2020. 2021. 2021.

You just need help. And I did have to count. And I was like, what are you doing? And I was like, counting six years. Yeah. Whatever. So, okay. Seven years age difference. Was she born in New Jersey too? She was born in Grabtown, North Carolina. She is a Southern gal. Oh, I did not know. She is through and through. Okay. She, I'll go ahead and say this now. MGM, when they first found her, couldn't even understand her because her Southern accent was so heavy. Wow. Yeah. It's like you come into LA. Yeah.

Oh my God. The video of me from Keds that we found. Do you remember? We have to post it. Okay. I'll find it because my Southern accent in one of them. What are you saying it again? You're saying your favorite things or something? Well, there's that one, but there's also one when I was getting my hair and makeup done and I say something that I was like, oh my God, that's so country. Your Southern accent was so.

strong. It was so much stronger. But like of course. Yeah, that's true. So was hers. She it says the often barefoot and always brash movie star Ava Gardner was in the words of second husband Artie Shaw quote the most beautiful creature you ever saw.

And ain't that the truth, sister? She's very pretty. She is just stunning. Gorgeous. So she always had a wandering spirit with a reckless streak and insatiable appetite for booze and boys that would often lead to the most glamorous sort of disasters. So this woman loved her men and this woman loved to drink. She is so cute. And I love her for that.

She's the youngest of seven children. Good God. So Frank Sinatra is an only child and Ava Gardner is the youngest of seven. They usually say that that doesn't work. Like you should have like a similar. I think dating an only child, even having a sibling, it's hard. Yeah. Dating an only child is exactly what you think it would be. I've dated two only children. I think it's just like insane.

You're just like, oh, yeah. The world is different. Revolves around you. And so she also grew up very poor. And so the fact that she was the youngest of seven and grew up very poor, like it's just different lifestyles. But he also grew up pretty poor too. Like SJP. Wasn't she the youngest of seven? I need to finish listening to our beach episode. I mean, she had so many siblings. That's crazy. And they were so poor. They grew up on food stamps. That's crazy because I don't picture her. I picture her as an only child and I do not picture her growing up poor. No, they really struggled. Yeah.

Okay, I need to finish listening to that beef episode. Okay, so her parents were poor tobacco sharecroppers. They didn't have running water, electricity, or indoor plumbing in their house growing up. Oh my God. Yeah, and her dad became ill and died from bronchitis in 1938 when she was 15 years old. Oh, bronchitis is brutal. So after her dad died, her mom ended up running a boarding house for teachers and

Ava graduates high school. She attends some secretarial classes for about a year. And then in the summer of 1940, she goes and visits her sister in New York. And her brother-in-law was a professional photographer. And he was like, why don't we take a portrait of you and then we can give it to your mom as like a present.

It's like pictures were like kind of rare back then. Yeah, and they're like, you're really pretty. We should like document this. So he takes her picture and he's like, this is my best work. I've never photographed someone so beautiful before. It's her. It's not you. Exactly. So he puts her picture on the front of his shop in New York in front of his photo studio being like, look what I can do for you. I'm like, you can't make me look like David Gardner. Right. I mean, you think sometimes you can. Yeah. You just can't. So then one day this guy named Bernard Duhon, who was a legal counsel.

legal clerk at Lowe's theater saw Ava's portrait in her brother-in-law's studio window. So he was pretty creepy. He often posed as an MGM talent scout to meet girls and,

So he walks in there. So loser-y. So I guess like MGM was a subsidiary of Lowe's, but like he was not a talent scout for MGM, like he was saying. So he walks in there and he was like, hey, can I get this girl's number? Because I'm a talent scout for MGM or whatever. And the secretary was like, you're being gross. You need to get out. And he did not give her or give him her number. But what he did say is somebody should send her info to MGM.

And so got them talking. Yeah. So her brother-in-law hears that and he's like, well, maybe we should send her info to MGM. Like get us all some cash. Yeah. So he does. And then Ava traveled back to New York to be interviewed at MGM's New York office and

With cameras rolling, the 18-year-old Ava was directed to walk towards the camera, turn and walk away, then rearrange some flowers in a vase. They didn't even bother recording her talking because they're like, we can't understand a word she's saying because of her southern accent. Wow. But they're like, she's hot, so it works. Literally. Was this during the talkies?

This was during the talkies because this was the 40s. A good voice. Yes. Well, Louis B. Mayer, trash. Trash. Trash. Justin, listen to our old Hollywood episode. Judy Garland episode. Judy Garland episode. He's the head of MGM. He sees it and he sends a telegram and he says, quote, she can't sing. She can't act. She can't talk. She's terrific.

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Ew. It was like classic. Since you can't talk, like I like, I like what I see. Men do better. They think she's gorgeous. They're like, we'll make it work. He offered her a standard contract by the studio. She leaves for Hollywood in 1941 with her sister Bappy accompanying her. Oh. So,

So no one could understand her. So they give her a voice coach and a singing coach. And they start putting her in like smaller roles and build her up for her first screen billing, which was Ghost on the Loose in 1943. And then she's like starting to make a name for herself. So on her first day of the MGM lots, she meets in 1941, one of the most popular actors in Hollywood, Mickey Rooney.

short king but i would not even say king short dweeb he was like i want to say right yeah oh well we'll get into i want to say he was like five two he played the little what's it called um when you're uh when you ride the horses oh uh jockey jockey he played the jockey in national velvet with elizabeth taylor oh really in national velvet i still haven't seen them and i i remember watching this kid be like who the fuck is this like

Well, ugly little man. He also played the neighbor in Breakfast at Tiffany's. They were together romantically? Yes, yes. We're about to get into it. Why is she with him? Well, okay. Let's get into it. Okay. He was 5'2", guys. He was 5'2". Guys, with love and light. Yeah.

How can you do that? Well, okay. How can you be such a short man? So he pursued. They were on set. He was like wearing like a really crazy costume. And she was like kind of annoyed by him at first. He saw her and was like, who the hell is that new girl? She's stunning. So he pursued her relentlessly. And finally, she agreed to go have dinner with him. He must have had the razz. Ava said, quote, don't let the little guy fool you. He knew every trick in the book.

She's like, he was really good at going downtown. And he could get down there very easily. He was already down there. He was already there? Well, usually short men have to... Look, I think I've probably had a crush on one short man in my life. But 5'2"? That's more like 5'6 or 5'7". Exactly. I think she was 5'6". You guys will see on the carousel. It's just like he has never been so lucky in his life to be able to get her. I mean, I guess his face is not cute.

Not cute. His face is not even cute. But you know who could play him? Who? Jesse Plemons. Wow, that's so true. Jesse Plemons isn't short enough, but I would love to see a Mickey Rooney movie. Because here, you're like, okay, he's not ugly. Right. But...

That's just a good photo, I think. And Mickey Rooney at this time, he was like MGM's golden boy, like very clean cut. Judy Garland actually, it's so sad because Judy Garland had a crush on like all these men that Ava Gardner ended up getting and Lana Turner. Why? Why did she not get them? Yeah.

I think Hollywood made her listener Judy Garland episode feel like trash when she was not. Oh, yeah. She felt like ugly. She did. They told her that she was. That's right. They told her she was like pudgy and ugly. Yes, which is so crazy. Hollywood is not a safe place. No, it's not. So apparently he was good in bed and that was very important to Ava. It really was. Well, yeah. Within months they were married.

He must have been very good. Yeah. And also. Like a little energizing bunny. And also, if you think about it, she's 21. She's new to Hollywood. And he's like the biggest movie star at the time. He probably had sex with that many people either. He took her virginity. Well, there you go. Honey, you got to really. You got to take a bite. You know, try all the flavors. Try all of them. At least once. Exactly. So, but MGM was like.

pissed about it. They forbid it at first. Because they're like, then he's going to be less desirable. Well, no, because they were like, everyone sees you as a teenage boy. We can't have you married to this gorgeous woman that's going to

the facade of the characters. Sorry for having the razz. Like literally. So when he told Louis B. Mayer, Louis B. Mayer said, I simply forbid it. That's all. I forbid it. And Mickey Rooney said, you've got no right to do that. This is my life. And Louis B. Mayer said, it's not your life. Not as long as you're working for me. MGM has made your life. MGM's so scary. Like the studio system back then was terrifying. Like,

Mm-hmm. Well, the two got divorced pretty quickly. Ava divorced Rooney in 1943, citing mental cruelty. Mm-hmm. Privately blaming his gambling and womanizing. Ew. You have no right, you little sick fuck. Yeah.

But actually – You have no right. Apparently he was like – I mean gambling, sure. Yeah. They all do that. He had a major gambling problem and – PK. PK? PK gambling. I know. And like getting them in the hole from that. Guys Ross, Beverly Hills was crazy. Guys crazy. They got a divorce from that. But she never like – she at this time didn't come out publicly saying that because she also was trying to protect his image. Yeah.

Yeah. So they separated nine months after they got married. Tough. Tough. Frank Sinatra actually first saw Ava on the MGM lot while she was with Mickey. And what did he say to us?

I'm going to marry that girl one day. Yes, you got it. You know who else said that recently? Who? Ariana Grande about Pete Davidson. She said, I'm going to marry that girl. She said there's an interview with her. It came up on our TikTok. And she said that the second that they did SNL together and she met him, she went to her manager and said, I'm going to marry that boy one day. I was like, at least they had a conversation. Like all these people. Guys, I'm sorry. That's lust. If you don't even know their name, how do you know you want to marry them? I've just never thought that about anybody.

I've never thought about anyone. I never have either. Like, it's just not a normal thought you have about someone. Like, it's, I want to have sex with them. Yes. I want to go on a date with them. But I think that's what it is. And it's like back then, it wasn't so open that you could just like sleep around with people. Yeah, that's true. So that's what they're really saying. Yeah, like, I just want to have a good time. Well, okay. And then he goes, by the way, when he said, I'm going to marry that girl, he's married with two kids. Oh, good. Yes. Good, good.

So she's like, whatever, whatever. I haven't seen them for years. Yeah, no, exactly. Like probably forgot about them. So then in an interview, because Ava ends up working with this ghostwriter later on for an autobiography. So we have like a lot of quotes from her. Ava was asked, can you remember the first words you exchanged when you first met Frank?

And she said, quote, She's like, I don't give a shit. Oh.

I love Ava Gardner so much. I like her. Her energy is like, get me out of this terrible marriage with this man who can barely stand up to meet my eyes. She just like, I love, and we'll see this through this whole episode, she loves sex and she loves men. We love an empowered queen. We really do, especially in this time. Yeah. Well, as soon as she was divorced from Mickey Rooney, Howard Hughes started pursuing her. Oh, because Kate Beckinsale plays her in the movie. Exactly. And guys, Howard Hughes sucks.

It sucked. Creepy. It sucked. And again, like if we ever do like an Ava Gardner episode, we can go more into her relationship with Howard Hughes, but she didn't end up ever marrying him. He was so mentally unwell. He was so mentally unwell. He had OCD really bad as well, but he would like have her followed and would have a lot of women like followed like that. Howard Hughes was the worst. He did Catherine Hepburn.

He dated everyone. He dated Lana Turner too. Yeah, yeah. He was just like, he was the worst. Yeah, so toxic. Oh, he dislocated her jaw, Ava Garner's jaw at one point. Oh, God. He sucked. So luckily she didn't end up marrying him. But then she ends up meeting band leader Artie Shaw.

Again, another band leader. They end up getting married in 1945. Artie Shaw would call himself an intellectual who spent most of his time with writers. She said, quote, Artie was difficult. He was complex. I was stuck on him. To tell the truth, I always was a little afraid of him, but not physically. Like she's like mentally afraid of him? Tess, who does this remind you of? Ready? This is a quote by Ava.

You know already. Quote, Arty was another kind of bully. I was afraid of his mind. He was a dominating son of a bitch. He used to put me down so much that I lost complete confidence in myself. When I went into analysts, that was something else he made me do. I insisted on taking an IQ test because I was at the point where I thought there was something seriously wrong with my mind. Well, it turned out very well indeed. I didn't have an enormous IQ, but I did have a rather high one. Who was it? John Mayer and Jessica Simpson. Yeah.

Should we go further? Quote, I also started hitting the bottle when I was with Artie. I drank with Mick, but that was kid stuff. With Artie, I got properly drunk. I got drunk because I was so insecure. I was completely out of my depth. You ladies. It's...

When I read it, I was, it's Jessica Simpson and John Mayer. Didn't she take an IQ test when she was with him? I think she did. And Katina was like, I swear that she's, it's like, do not be with any man that makes you feel like you have to take it. If anyone asks you to ever do that, that is so loser-y. Where do you even take an IQ test? I think you can take one online. Also, isn't it now like outdated? I think so. Because like, that's not really a way to measure. There's so many forms of intelligence. Knowing every episode of Housewives. Thank you.

Intelligence. Knowing the housewife's drink of choice. Intelligence. Knowing how to get spray tan. Intelligence.

I mean, we could go on for days. We could go on and on. So Artie Shaw, like he was like this musician and he put her down so much for being a movie star. He told her, he was like, when you're with my friends, you should probably not talk so that you could learn a thing or two. Well, because like movie stardom used to be thought of for women as like prostitution. Because they were also like

You're not an actor. You're a movie star. You're just used for your looks and your body. Exactly. Which I'm also like. Which like that's hard to do. It's hard to be that pretty. It really is. And also I'm like, okay, if you think all of that, fuck you. But then why are you with me? Also like you're in the industry too. Also just because you're singing doesn't mean you're like a genius. Well, you're a band leader too. So like actually play something. Apparently he played the clarinet, which I'm like that is the least sexy thing. As someone who used to play the clarinet.

It dries you right up. It dries you right up. Yeah, clear night can be tough. Yeah. No, it definitely can. For a man. What I also love though is because he hired a Russian chess coach for her because he was like, you need to learn how to like play all this. So then- Chess. Chess. God, this is very triggering. But then she started beating him at chess and then he's like, I'm not going to play anymore. You know what I think is a red flag? What? Is if you're on like starting to date someone, like you're on like your third or fourth date and they're like, let me teach you how to play chess.

I just think I'm past the point of being able to play chess. It's also just like, I feel like it is for men to like, be like, I'm super smart and like, let me show you. And like, I remember that happened to me with that guy's day during COVID and I would be like sweating during it and shaking. And like, I start drinking a lot. Cause I'm like, the call is coming from within. I have a bottle of wine. I'm just so scared. It,

You're scaring me. And like I even have like had this with dating too where you just feel scared to be yourself, which is like I think it's a normal thing when you're first meeting someone. Yes. But if it's like to some extent, it's constantly they feel like you feel like they're putting you down. I am. If it's after like three dates or four dates, like just that time where you're like, I should feel more comfortable now and it's not.

No. Get out. Dump them. Dump them. Britney Spears, dump them. He gave her a reading list. He was like, you should read up on these books. Oh my God, this is John Mayer. It's making me sick. It's crazy. It is literally John Mayer and Jessica Simpson. Did you see John Mayer and Katy Perry sitting by each other at Sabrina Carpenter? Yes, and they were chatting. She goes like this. He comes in and she puts her hands over her face and then laughs and turns around and extends her arm out and they shake hands and then start chatting. I was like, what?

to be a fly on that wall. Please, like, get me in that conversation. I'm sure she was like, I'm sure she got all flustered. If I was in the audience next to them, I would literally be like, same. I would just like go sit on like her lap. Sit on her lap. Like, so what are you guys talking about? She probably pushed me off. She seems like such a mean woman. She's so scary. She hates women. So yeah, Artie Shaw sucks. Ultimately,

Ultimately, he leaves her, which pisses me off. Well, because if your confidence is that low to be dating, like, of course, she's not going to think she's worthy of not being with him. That's so true. He left her after being married for roughly a year. She said, we married October 17th, 1945. He dumped me one week after our first anniversary. That bastard broke my heart.

It's always tough to be dumped on an anniversary. A week after? But honestly, sweetheart, he did you a favor. Hindsight, 2020. So, okay. We're done with Artie Shaw. Now Frank is like, I see. She's single. In 1948, Frank Sinatra, okay, so he's reaching the end of his MGM contract. Louis B. Mayer is fed up with Frank's demands. He would refuse to show up for work sometimes, and he's constantly having affairs, and Louis was like,

I can be trash and a womanizer, but you can't because you're a public face in this and I'm spending so much money trying to cover up all of your affairs. The tabloids were like really starting to talk. And this is like the beginning of like paparazzi really. And like gossip tabloids. Um,

about all of his affairs with women like Lana Turner. And again, like he's supposed to be this like Italian golden boy and his wife's at home with these kids and he's out here sleeping with women. They would run into each other, Ava and Frank, at other parties and on the MGM lot. But in the fall of 1949, when Ava was 26 and Frank was 33, they were both at this rowdy party in Palm Springs. Love. The Palm Springs parties back then. Palm Springs is like one of those things of like...

When you go, you're like, this is old Hollywood. It's old Hollywood glam. It's so glamorous. The architecture. So they're at this party. It had been about a year since they'd seen each other. And it was just like one of those nights where the vibes are so high. They're both pretty tipsy. He makes a beeline for her and starts flirting. And she's kind of like, okay, well, aren't you married, Frank? Yeah. And Frank's like, oh, it's over. It's over. Yeah, we're separated. Yeah, exactly. But then Ava's like, well, I'm drunk. You're hot.

Whatever. And so Frank's like, let's get out of here.