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Wow. Wow.

So spacey. Thank you Chandler Everett for that wonderful thingle and welcome to the Hatchat podcast the first of 2025 and it obviously is number 185.

That's exactly right. I'm Chris Trott. Congratulations, Chris Trott. I'm Ross Hornby. Thank you. Congratulations, Chris Trott. I'm Alex Smith. Thank you very much. Lots of congratulations. Congratulations for that intro. Today we are in a very cold warehouse. Yes. If you are watching the podcast on the HeadShare Podcast YouTube channel, or even on our

film's YouTube channel and I think it's on the live section. True. We are coated up because it's bloody cold. Yeah. Which, you know... We rent a warehouse with which we make silly stuff and

messy stuff, but also it's a warehouse with a corrugated ceiling. And gaps in the walls and doors. Yeah, just breeze blocks keeping us from the elements outside. We have a fireball, but it's just so, you know, fleeting. Yeah. We heat up the air and then it'll just wither away into the

very loose corrugated roof. It's a very inefficient way to do our bit for climate change, isn't it? And by doing our bit, I mean contributing to it by burning gas. Isn't it mad? Not constantly though, at least. I think it's mad that we just, there's just gas you can burn. Like imagine this, right? When it comes to natural resources, when it comes to any kind of human endeavor, I like to do this mind experiment. Okay.

Imagine you're just some bloke, right, Ross? I can do that. You're just some guy, right? Maybe with a couple of other people. Maybe it's a family unit. Maybe it's a tribe. Maybe it's some mates. And you were just on the side of a hill, right? You've largely been living your life out of a cave. And there's like, you know, that provides some structure for you. You know how to make a fire using wood and stuff. You hunt, you eat, yum, yum, right? Yeah.

All of a sudden, you smell, you know, well, you don't smell because I think they add the smell in gas, but you see just out the side of like, you know, a rock formation on the ground somewhere, a bit like when we were in Iceland and we saw the random shit bubbling out of the ground. You just see this odd kind of mist coming out of the ground, right? And one of you... It's got some heat to it. Well, it doesn't have heat yet because it hasn't been ignited. That's a thermal vent. We're talking about natural gas. I've confused the analogies here. Basically, you and your mates...

just in the middle of fucking nowhere. And this like basic guys stuff and it stays, stains your hands. Yes. And you just decide, right, you know what? We'll take that mist, that gas stuff that comes out of the ground and we'll burn it. But,

but we won't just burn it. We'll also just power whole nations off of it. Millions of people will use this all the time forever. I don't think that guy would say that at that point. But the scale of natural resources... I feel like it would have been ignored for a long time. Yeah, like a lunatic. And also, if anything, they were probably just standing over it and then just pass out. It's not burning. What's this smell? It doesn't smell like anything. Do you want to go and sit near the pass out then? Yeah, that's what they call it for a while. It feels good for a bit. Whoa, how long was I out for?

But to me, it's just like gas. It's so absurd to me that we then get this stuff that's just in the ground. We don't make it. It's just there. We pull it out from a gap in the ground. As God intended. Stick it in a bottle, transport it to us. Pressurize it. And then we just burn it. We just light it. Well, they would have had to light it on fire first, I suppose. Bring a torch to it and go, whoa, what the fuck? Yeah. Obviously, it would have been burning probably constantly out that hole for a long time. Exactly. Or it would have come from a natural... Yeah.

situation where it's like lightning or something caught fire to it. It's like, well, that's burning for an extended period. I don't think I've ever looked up the origins of our use of gas. Of gas discovery. No, exactly. I reckon, you know, when the cavemen discovered fire, they were lighting farts. And cave women. And cave people. No, no, mostly men. Made all the discoveries. Yeah. I'm joking. But they were lighting farts.

yeah they were like that smells like that far that gas no the smell is added to gas so natural gas i think can be scentless that's what can make it not in iceland not in iceland no that's sulfur is fucking that that was rough and i'm sure it's not always scentless either but that be that's that gassy smell that we know is added to gas right so it's it's yeah um great way of identifying it right like did you know big vacuum sorry makes vacuums louder

Because there was a period of time, this might not be fully true. That's okay. We're in that world now where it doesn't matter if it's fully true. Let them do the research. Zuckerberg said so. Basically, vacuums got to a point where they became very efficient and they weren't loud, but people were complaining that they weren't doing their job because they didn't sound like they were doing their job. So they added the sound back in.

So vacuums don't need to be as loud as they are. It's because of our perception of them doing their job. That's quite funny, isn't it? It is literally just an illusion. It's the same reason they pump the engine sounds into electric cars now. You need to feel like there's power there. Something's missing. Is the car on? And our dumb, stupid, soft brains are like, well, I mean, this car's shit because it's not really doing anything. It's like, well, no, it is.

Let's just give you that sound anyway, you dumb idiot. Conditioning, isn't it? I suppose. And also, yeah, I guess trying to move people from one thing to another in a seamless way. Yeah, that's true. A transition. Yeah, yeah. Sort of feel like the old one. But that is quite interesting. So gas, when did we start using it? What was it for? Well, this here says 1821 is when the United States, William Hart dug the first commercial natural gas well in 1821. That doesn't seem that long ago.

I don't know, when you said it, I was picturing, I was thinking caveman. No, I knew gas hadn't been around for a long, like commercial gas. To be used in such a way, I guess you still need a lot of other technology to even...

Get that shit out of there. What gave him the idea to dig up some gas? Well, something I guarantee has happened is a little bit where you talked about is there are undoubtedly natural deposits throughout history where people have accidentally ignited them or they've been ignited and they haven't just exploded, which can happen. They've left, they've done just a constant flame, like an eternal flame, right? And I'm sure...

you know, there's probably either historical records of this or it's been lost to time. But, you know, there was somebody at the time just being like, yeah, magic fire tap, isn't it? It never goes out. Yeah, it never goes out. You can heat stuff with it. You cook some food over it if you like, you know. I haven't got close enough to figure out where it's coming from. Yeah, exactly. And then that person dies. The gas mine explodes. All those people die. We lose all that knowledge forever. You know, I'm sure stuff like that has happened. Do you reckon the...

too far off earlier on saying lightning strikes because it says the gas would seep from below the earth's surface and create fire when mixed with lightning strikes on the ground. In 500 BC, which was quite a long time ago, guys, Chinese civilizations created crude pipelines made from bamboo shoots to transport the gas. That's crazy. The gas was used as a fuel source to create drinking water by boiling seawater to separate the salt.

Wow, so they were doing desalination in 500 BC in China. Through bamboo tubes. That's crazy. You would think bamboo tubes are like, you know, non-porous enough or whatever, like, you know, like airtight enough. They...

I know they can be used for funneling water, but I would have thought the gas molecules would be too small. They probably lost more. I guess so. Natural gas was found in America in 1626 by French explorers who noticed that the Native Americans were igniting gases that seeped from Lake Erie. There you go. They were igniting gas just from the nature. Awesome. And then 100 years later, Britain became the first country to commercialize the use of natural gas, using it to fuel lighthouses and streetlights. Gas. Gas.

There you go. When did whale oil get real popular? I want to know the whale oil. Probably before gas. Yeah, I think it was the thing that was used mainly before gas. I want to know who the first person who lit their own fart on fire. I reckon prior to the gas extracted from the earth, I reckon they were lighting farts in the cave. Oh, I reckon they were, yeah. Just bend over next to a fire and fart. Wait, do that again. That is crazy. 100%.

The challenge would be to have such a bad diet in that era to be able to form farts that noxious. Wow. Sorry. It says here there is evidence of people performing fart history as far back as the 4th century AD. Perfect. That's recorded. And that's recorded, yeah. Because there's not much information about who first lit their fart on fire.

Which I guess you wouldn't really. Where are you writing that down? Who are you telling? And how are you explaining? Is that alongside like noting down the monarchs of the era and like the birth and death rates? I imagine it would happen by accident originally. You're farting near a fire. Whoa, whoa. What the fuck just happened? And you're like, well, the gas from your ass just set on fire. No. What? Some guy called Joseph...

Pujol. I said that wrong. A Frenchman who was a popular stage performer who could inhale air through his rectum and expel it. Popular stage performer under the stage name Le Pitamen, which means the gas maniac. He would blow out candles and play the flute and smoke cigarettes using his farts.

There you go, fartistry. Great. So imagine that flute. I don't know. So disgusting. Yeah. A little different to a Roster Trump. Who used this before me? What's this taste? What the fuck?

You stop borrowing my flute. I try to convince the cavemen and women and cave people that farting over a fire, cave folk, that they're burning a little bit of their soul every time they do it. It'd be quite easy to do, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It'd be fun fucking with them, wouldn't it? Gaslighting them. Yeah, with the knowledge of what we have now and going back and quite literally gaslighting people into believing things. You've got to believe that there's an advanced civilization out there somewhere that's doing that, right? That's just fucking with people. If you could...

It's literally Rick and Morty's next, you know, not a great version of that, but that is an example of how we've all, some people have already thought about how we would do that to others, right? Like we would fly through the galaxy. If you had a person that had all this power to teleport themselves across the galaxy, a lot of it would be fuckery. A lot of it would be going to your favorite place to eat. A lot of it would be going to these weird places where like the air is a drug, you know, like things like that. Why wouldn't you?

This is nuts. You've got unlimited potential worlds. This place is full of oxygen, which is crazy hallucinogenic for us. Yeah. Well, they just aren't aware. Somebody takes a mask. It's like Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story when he takes a mask. Oh, right. That's right.

He genuinely believed he was going to die. He is a plastic toy. I know, but as a metaphor of that idea of believing something so much that you then think you're going to die from it and then someone just goes, no, it's not as easy. This is what it is. I'm not usually consciously aware of the subtle nudgings of where the conversation is steered, but I did notice that that conversation was just gently nudged towards aliens there. Oh. Hey there, Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet. Resolutions. Resolutions.

A way for us all to try and do a little bit better than we did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging a**.

and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details. I only use it as an example of an infinite canvas that is the universe and the possibilities it presents. There are aliens in Toy Story. There are. There's little...

the toy aliens they're in the grabby hand machine the claw yeah I was going to talk about energy consumption in terms of it's not like a good thing but I was talking about it earlier in terms of AI oh yeah obviously California is up in flames right now it's crazy because of how dry it is the entire areas have been wiped out it's shocking but also not so shocking in the sense that people were warned about climate change but it's not really much you can do if your house is there quite an arid place it's kind of like you're just stuck in a place which is going to get awful uh

But yeah, we won't talk about that because... Depressing. It's quite depressing. But what's more depressing is AI. We're not going to talk about that. We're going to do something even more overwhelmingly depressing. 2024's word of the year. AI. Call it a word. Bringing to light California's fire problem, but also its water shortage as well, which is not helping putting out said fires or maybe stopping fires in the first place. Yeah.

AI data centers are guzzling so much water in that region. Basically, because of the cost of cooling these server centers, the data centers that are training and producing large language models, apparently one prompt to send an email

is a bottle of water. Wow, that is a lot of water. But where does it go? I thought they were building some of those under the ocean. What do you mean? Because water doesn't just disappear. They're using the word guzzling because it's like when people guzzle water. It's been processed, right? Yeah, but if it's evaporating, right? I presume it's evaporating. No, it's being guzzled. I presume it's being used to...

cool to cool things down i imagine cooling towers yes right so when that water is evaporated it does go back into the atmosphere it doesn't just get destroyed like i'm not saying i think it's the power consumption of like pumping that water through right getting it off yeah and then processing that water once again it's the combination things isn't it yeah because the power they need to run all that stuff needs to be cooled they're pulling more water into their data centers to

cool their servers than it being utilized elsewhere I guess same with servers same with Bitcoin miners and all that other stuff as well like but yeah AI because obviously everyone's now using it on their phones with Apple intelligence and chat GPT and stuff

You know, now you're just like, how do I make a cup of tea? I'll just chat GBT and see. Oh, right, nice. But yeah, Microsoft... That technically costs real energy somewhere else in the world. So they have to release a sustainability report every year. Microsoft's last year said its global water consumption had spiked 34%. And that's between 2021 and 2022. Mm-hmm.

And the same period, Google's rose 20%. And it's fair to say, they wrote in their own report, the majority of that growth of both companies is due to AI. Microsoft's data center used up 700,000 liters of water training GPT-3.

Crazy. It doesn't feel like a lot. 700,000 litres. I mean, like... He drinks that in a week. I mean, bear in mind, 1,000 people will drink 10,000 litres in a few days. How many emails are they writing as well? Um, huh?

How clean does a water have to be? So I'm not being an apologist here, right? So I'm trying to work out... Is it just regular seawater? Well, yeah. I mean, it'll depend. It'll depend on equipment. I mean, nuclear power has always used this. Server farms as well use the same sort of thing. I think that's why there's a big push for nuclear power to basically mitigate some of this consumption because it is...

mostly coming out of fossil fuels. Right. That's what it all comes back down to. 15% increase in fossil fuel yield because of this. That's what it... Basically, the origin of the problem is fossil fuels are powering all of this. Okay, yeah. Oh, yeah, carry on. No, what I was going to say is like, it's... I mean, obviously, there's lots of crazy shit and lots... I'm not trying to be an apologist. I don't know enough about this, et cetera, et cetera. I would say that...

I personally think that nuclear power seems to be necessary to help us reach climate goals. That is what I can guess from what I've read about stuff.

However, nuclear power is not something you can whack up in a field like a wind turbine. On average, a reactor takes 10 years to build. And they're expensive. 10 to 15 years to build and to put into action. They're incredibly expensive, billions and billions of pounds to build. And they require specialists. It's not just the money either. It's also the specialist experts on how to build and design them and also the specialist machinists.

like machinery required. There's only a finite number of those things in the world. So you're basically bidding for those things as well. Also, like...

probably the money attached to change and alter people's perception of nuclear as well. Exactly. To get it even greenlit in the first place. So looking at a society, like from a government perspective, if you were a government looking at whether or not to try and fund building a nuclear reactor, yes, there is a huge amount of, um, upsides down the road, but right now it's a massive upfront cost where most governments have very little money and you're completely right. A lot of the costs will be about, um,

making it even a votable issue, you know, people will be happy with it. It's also lasts longer than most political parties turn. So it's not their benefit. Yeah. So there's all sorts of reasons why. So, so one of the, one of the few, well, not one of the few, I hope there are many upsides to this giant technological progress that we're hopefully going through is, is the people like meta and Google are looking at building their own nuclear reactors and,

They do not, they have massive cash reserves for bad reasons. For bad reasons, companies now have more power than governments in lots of cases. It's not a good thing. However, they do have massive cash reserves and people like Meta and Google could build nuclear power stations primarily to power their AI, but also there would be the capability to feed the cities and towns and everything around cities.

wherever they're basing it with cheaper power and hopefully further afield as well. We're going to have meta energy, aren't we? Yeah, I think so. But the other thing here is water. So tying us back into what we were talking about here. So it is within Meta's and Google's interest to build power supply

solutions, right? Yeah, they've created their own demand. With water use going up, you could also say that it's now within their purview or within their interest to maintain, improve supplies of water. And again, these things run through countries, so hopefully that supply of water will bleed through. This isn't an argument for privatization because it can 100% sound like that. I'm not in favor of it. I think we should nationalize energy, water, transport, everything within countries. Sex.

It's kind of different on that, but we can work through it. So yeah, just to be clear, again, I'm not making, I'm just talking about the cards we have dealt in my opinion on these things. So, you know, maybe, maybe that's a positive spin on hopefully one day. I hope it goes in that direction for sure. But right now, obviously it's a huge problem because they're all racing to be the best players

AI. Yeah. And at the moment with our current infrastructure, they're just consuming a bunch of fossil fuels to get there. Yeah. Yeah. And it's been, again, pushed onto the consumer. It's been forced to

into everything, like AI is in everything and that's Microsoft's fault and Google's fault and Facebook's fault that they're like, use AI all the time. Bing's now got it. You've got Copilot now. Use it all the time. Do you want us to summarize this article for you? Frivolous use is going to become common, isn't it? And again, it's like the onus has then been put on us to feel guilty when these articles come out. Like Ross was saying earlier, it's down to them again. It's like the paper straw thing.

Whereas we've all got to reduce our consumption of AI. Yeah. When really it's them pushing it so hard on the consumer. But they're going to keep doing it. Yeah. Ultimately. Because everyone wants it. They want to figure out how to...

rip open a paper straw. Yeah. How do I do that? I'm going to ask ChatGPT because my smooth brain doesn't know where to go anymore. There's a bottle of water gone now. To go on all your reference points. Yeah, you're right though. The frivolous use of it is definitely a concern. But then what defines frivolous? It's encouraged. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well,

Like us telling it to do multiple different languages. How many bottles of water? It made me think of it. I'll show it. Do this again, but in a funny accent. It's like, that's another bottle of water. Now I've got like, because there's an article out now of like every email is a bottle of water. I'm just thinking like, oh shit, I feel bad because we've done that and I've done that, you know? So... Shouldn't be putting water in bottles anyway. Microsoft are instead spending billions to like put it into their fucking operating system so that we can use it more.

I've been getting rid of the plastic like the old school way with fire. Fire, the old disposal. I've just got like a tub that's made of steel.

put a load of plastic bags in there because I fucking hate plastic bags so you get a bag filled with loads of plastic bags and just set them on fire smells funny as well if you put a tyre in the bottom of that that goes for ages you won't have to relight it for ages it'll be a constant so I invite neighbours and stuff like if you've got any plastic just let me know I'll sort it out and it's like they're like oh well you can get rid of it I'll say yeah yeah

oh that's really kind of you and then burn it engulf it in flames yeah you're the Bristol beacon now exactly the black beacon I'd go around asking for plastic now if you've got any spare if you've got anything you want to get rid of old plastic cups more

More news on the humanitarian effort being done today by Ross Harvey. A black pillar of smoke has been burning over his home for the last six months. I don't know why people are worried about that. Just burn it. Just burn it all. It's fine. Do you remember the ice bucket challenge? I remember that one, yeah. I reckon that caused a water shortage. People were just frivolously throwing water over their heads. It wasn't much water though, was it? How many searches is that? It was probably the equivalent of like a shower.

I mean, if we really start whittling down every single use of all this stuff, we're going to go crazy. That's the thing. I'm going to go mental. 700,000 litres or whatever. I was like, that's not actually that much. In the scheme of things. If you actually look at how much water is in a river, how much water is in an ocean, I'm not saying use it all up. Plenty is mostly water. But these numbers are huge. These numbers are huge. Water is, you know...

It's hard to quantify if you haven't got it in a bottle. If you just picked, scooped it up in your fucking hands, how much water do you think you could fit in your hands? It's hard to tell, isn't it? Not even 200ml, probably. Yeah, probably about 200ml. I think that stat is probably not the one to focus on, though. No, I know. Again, I'm not trying to minimise it. Water cooling is used in technological stuff. It has been used. Also, energy consumption is directly equivalent to...

advancement in technology as well. Like, you know, in terms of there's also, I don't, I don't want to be a tech pro, but I really don't know how else we fucking reason ourself out of this until we create some sort of computer that, that,

helps or does something that because honestly like we're so fucked we are so fun benevolent agi we've really fucked this one can you we've we've spent all our energy on this so you could do this one final prompt please save us save us god you know like it really is it is it's just another form of religion i'm not saying it's a good thing either but i suppose it's all it's just awareness of these things so the thing is like i think if you realized if you followed your

bag of garbage or whatever like to where it actually is going to go you might don't do that you might think differently about like how much you want to get rid of but also like yeah like you said about corporations and stuff being in control of that everything's wrapped in plastic everything's wrapped in all this other stuff it's like

But then nobody wants to just have that loose product that's just been rolling around on some dirty bucket in the supermarket. The inverse is getting sued and complaining for contamination. There's a whole chain of these things. There's a reason it's the way it is now. It is shocking to see these things on scale. There are documentaries which kind of show you these things. When you say, oh, the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire, and they show you this tiny little dot. That pixel's a million. This is a billion. And this guy's got a hundred of them. And then...

It means nothing. Scale is so hard to perceive when we only deal with our own little shit to deal with. And that's a nice callback to the guy that found a little bit of gas leaking out the ground in the cave. Because underneath that, there might be millions and millions of metric meters of fucking gas that you have no idea of quantifying. Have you seen that cartoon meme with the guy digging...

like a big oh yeah he's just about to keep gambling that's a keep gambling that's where it's just he's just about to get to the wall diamonds on the other side so close if I just keep going that's gambler's fallacy it is that it's quite literally just like come on like if we keep going on this slot machine we'll get there we'll get the jackpot yeah so I tell you what I noticed what you were talking about there when I went to I went to a Marks and Spencer's a couple of days ago and then I went to a Lidl

I went to a Lidl the other day. For balance reasons. I wouldn't go in Asda. I honestly got such comfy dressing gowns there. I would find a Lidl or an Aldi before I go in a fucking Asda. Right, so Lidl, everything is plastic wrapped. Everything. I noticed this as well. I was like, fuck me. There is plastic on everything here. And it's the cheapest.

Well, yeah, but price-wise, I wasn't focusing on too much in this particular example. When I was at the M&S, they had their amazing luxury baker. It's the new one up at Cribs Causeway, whatever. They've just redone the M&S there, and it's fucking awesome. And they have all the crazy foods that they do out there, and they have a massive bakery where they make loads of stuff.

But they put everything. Yeah, I mean, I can't eat baked goods. And they made this massive, amazing display, but none of it has any covering on it. Right.

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for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. You get so much footfall through that store and everyone's coughing and everyone's sneezing and everyone's touching and I'm just like, it's definitely post-COVID I'm more aware of these things, but I'm just like,

you know what that bread's probably been sat there all day on this display thing and people have probably gone you know like i don't think i ever yeah i if i see loose bread on that i just won't get it unless it's actually sealed like or like covered the demand is there and that's why everything is plastic or covered yeah i don't know who's washing a crusty loaf of bread at home i run it yeah run it under the tap just what soggify your bread

but you're right like you're late yeah flicking through nah not for me he's touching every loaf I run my chicken under the tap yeah and then you're just going in afterwards oblivious to it yeah so it's like yeah so double H is sort of like fuck like do I but then you're like

fuck this thin bit of plastic I don't give a shit yeah and that's the kind of individualistic mindset that you have because you'd rather not get sick from some fucker coughing on your loaf of bread yeah then that tiny bit of plastic is gonna go in landfill no it is a very good yeah it's a very good metaphor for individualism

isn't it? Or it'd obviously be burnt. Guys, it completely disappears. I don't know if you've ever burnt a passion fruit, it just goes into a little shrivel and all you want is this little kind of little mulch at the bottom. It's fine. And then you can eat the mulch. Yeah. The horrible reality is you can eat the mulch. It's entirely up to you. The horrible thing is here though, is you could actually benefit from the warmth of that and not,

suffer from the fumes if you just like bank you can yeah emerge it in some water and then run a heat pump system just let the fumes go out into that the sky into the infinite sky I might make that

I'll 3D print myself an enclosure and then burn all my 3D print waste into it. This podcast is great because it tells you how to burn plastic. It tells you which supermarkets to steal from. It tells you also that, you know, when... Some fucker stole from my house yesterday. You got stolen from? What did they steal? Sorry, the stealing word prompted that for me. Theft. Theft.

an amazon parcel was just left outside oh five minutes later yeah on my ring doorbell i noticed uh a guy turns up with a scooter with a scarf covered oh shit picks it up yeah and then uh drives off with it anything good on a scooter it was fucking car washer fluid it's something so like yeah not expensive but like what the fuck is he gonna do it was heavy though so he was like oh

Bang. Awesome. The funny thing was a neighbor came around later that day in the evening and held up the Amazon parcel opened. It was like, I saw this tossed down the road. It's like they clearly opened it up, noticed it was car washing fluid and then just threw it. But I noticed your name on it. And it's like, here you go. So that neighbor saved me. So you actually got the product back as well? I got it back.

and that guy was like um went just down the road like a few meters opened it up checked it it was like oh well yeah toss didn't even give it back bastards yeah it's like people who steal in phones like in you know oxford circus wherever it is um if it's a phone you see this tossed on the side people oh yeah since you know guys riding their electric bikes through and then just tossing the ones they don't want yeah um but yeah like you probably get like a safe box or on the side of the house or something

But then you try and tell an Amazon delivery driver what to do. The Amazon drivers have been pretty bad recently. One threw a parcel the other day over my fence. Fucking hell. Just because they couldn't be, they didn't even go to the door. They just went. Well, yeah, it happens more around Christmas. And I empathize with the idea. So they probably are fucking swamped. But like, yeah, it's hard to be very kind of careful. Two of the ones in Bristol know who we are as well.

Sorry? I've bumped into an Amazon giant. Well, so one of the... Yeah, one outside our office I've seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very tall fella. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, really tall guy. All right. All right. That's us saying tall. Yeah. He's bloody tall. He is tall. He's a six foot six Amazon giant. Damn. So hello if you're listening. Very friendly though. Yeah, yeah. He's not one of those... So he knows us. Yeah. Cool. Cool.

Hopefully he's not the guy tossing abs and parcels over my fence. I asked if he listened to the podcast in the van and he said he doesn't listen to anything because they have to get in and out so often. I was like, what about, I guess you wouldn't have headphones. He can't. He's driving. Yeah. I guess you could.

But apparently he just doesn't need the additional task. I think it's quite a lot of work. Trucking trots parcels. You didn't have much of a conversation with him about like the Amazon working conditions and like. I've got another friend who works as an Amazon delivery driver. I can ask them if you want. Yeah, just like. It's all right. Are you run ragged or is it like the factory where it's like you have to reach a quota? No, he says it's hard. In that scenario, do you then just contact Amazon and say, oh, by the way, this didn't get sent?

What'd you do? Yeah. It got delivered. Yeah, like sometimes I've had packages that say delivered. I've never received them. Yeah, I do. They've gone somewhere else. I don't know where. I think, yeah, you can say that it's not delivered and usually you get credit. Yeah. Like Amazon credit rather than chasing it. Same with delivery. Porch pirates, man. I didn't know. I thought that was a really American thing. I don't know if that's, I guess. I don't live in a house. I don't know if that's common. It's only going to get worse. Yeah.

Yeah. Excuse me. Sorry. I live in a flat. It's different. Although it's more, I would say it's more at risk. He's doing that all over the bakery goods. They just dump all our parcels in a, in a kind of a lobby. That's one thing. Which I feel like is easier to steal. Yeah. Cause then you can kind of. It's not been that rife. The theft could be someone else in the apartment. Yeah.

Oh, now you're turning on your fucking neighbours, are you? Can't even give them the benefit of the doubt? Who took my fucking washing fluid? I've been white-collar thieving for fucking years now, and if people like you start questioning whether good-natured neighbours like me are also doing it, you're going to get me in trouble. There's no good neighbours in apartment blocks. I'm going out and saying it, and the reason for that is look at the fucking state of the bins.

the bins fuck me some guy dumped a lot of jamie oliver books in the bins the other day oh yeah he told me that the same book right they look pretty sorry no no they're all different books but like oh so he's dead to him he's got rid of him he's fucking dead to me like brand like fairly new and i was like do i take one i was like that's jamie oliver nothing made me hate humanity more than living in an apartment block and just seeing what other humans do i just put up angry signs in the lift

So if people fuck the lift up, yeah, yeah. If somebody puts a lift, like they take a stinky bin in the lift, classic. Oh, the stinky bin. It's the bin juice, which is the end juice. Exactly. So go back and give it a little mop. Exactly. A little wipe. That's the sign I leave. That's what I did. I said, if you're going to take a stinky bin in the lift and it leaves mess all over it, please just come back and clean it. We all have to use the lift. Yeah, they've got to use it again as well. So it's like, why not give it a little wipe? That's just crazy.

common courtesy. Yeah. But also, you don't shit where you eat, I think is the common term, which applies to many things. Like, you don't blast your sound system in your car down the street you live in because that's where you live. My road is quite...

Yeah. Bad. I've come to realise that. I've come to realise, yeah. Like a rough place. That's the frigging steel. It's a trade-off. Yeah. For the price, it was a pretty good price. My washer fluid. But the washer fluid, man. It came back. That could have been an Apple watch. Could have been. Imagine that. Yeah. Maybe I should get a safe. I should get a safe outside. Yeah, or a little box. You could get a little intelligent one. That could be another smart device to buy. Or turrets. Turrets.

What do you mean by turrets? As in... Guns. Stay back. Turret, gun, yeah, gun turrets are fire like... Ones that lock on. Just fire BBs. Yeah. Even that's a deterrent. That'd be kind of freaky. Just, if they start lock on to everyone who walks past. Just gotta look threatening, right? Heather.

I think what's going to happen is eventually you're just going to have to put up walls because the inequality is going to get worse and worse and we're going to have less money to fund social programs because we're not chasing enough tax and therefore the police don't have time to prosecute people like that so theft becomes an unprosecutable crime they're probably a child anyway so it's

probably also an echo of... No, they were an adult. Would you even call the police ever? Yeah, but how could you tell? Would you even bother calling the police, do you think? I've got the footage. You've got their face? Yeah. If it wasn't Washerflin... Crime stoppers, let's do this. They're not going to do anything. No, they can't. They don't have the resources. Here he comes. I feel like I wouldn't bother. He's showing him camera footage. You can see him going in there. Oh, he's grabbing it. Does he look anywhere else or just grabs the parcel? No, he eyed up the parcel in and out. Boom. And then he got down the road and that's when he opened it up and decided...

No, it's off camera, but... No one can see it. Yeah, but no, you're going to have to put a fence up eventually because people like that... But then they won't deliver my parcels. No, you will. You could have them put them over the fence through your special box. Yeah, you're going to have to get a special box, mate. But then also, you could get a part-time job as a cash-in-transit gun guy with the Amazon guy. Do you want to hire a man? Hire a man to stand at the edge of your drive defending your home. Um...

and then yeah well this is a nice thing about um increasing inequality if you manage to stay on this end of it is that eventually people get so desperate that they'll do jobs for less money and so instead of being a porch thief you couldn't hire him for just above porch these rates which isn't very high sure to be your manservant but then you get the other problem of inequality where that guy might betray you at any moment yeah exactly creep into your house and one of us will come around and offer him a slightly better deal just to fuck up your home and vandalize it

Just because we'll find it funny and film it. 50 quid to like wreck it. How much does that go pay? I'll pay you 20 quid more just to spray funny things on the side of his wall. Yeah. And I've built up like a nice rapport with this guy for a few years. So I let him in the house now and again and then he just turns on me for an extra couple of quid. Yeah. You didn't give him a Christmas bonus.

Shit, man. So you've got to watch out for these things, man. That's the creep. That's the slow creep. Because the walls won't betray me. Yeah, fences maybe. Just some solid fences. Some solid walls. Let's all wall ourselves into we're all in a solid box that no one can access. Then I'll put some posters on the front like advertising for some private security. Required. Man servant. Willing to take scuba thieves. There was a guy who was like tweeting saying that he wanted or he was trying to get a private firefighter or something. But he was tweeting it.

Yes, I saw that. Is like, I didn't know a fire, a private fire, um, fire that can just help my house. Yeah. I think actually do exist. Um, obviously cause of these fires in LA. Yeah. There was a guy who just, um, we got torn apart obviously by everyone who was saying it was read the room, man. The whole place is on fire. Yeah. Um, he was looking for, yeah, he wasn't even at home. He was just like, Oh, can someone protect my house?

Is there a private fire department I can call? I think there is. I think there actually is private. You can get private firefights. I think you can get pretty private anything, but I'm sure, like you say, anyone's got a pricing, but I'll go protect your home and just spray it with some stuff and then realise it needs a lot more water than is available. How many bottles is this? Oh, that's one. Gonna need at least six more boxes of Dasani. LAUGHTER

Maybe I should move home. What, from that porch? Would you have called the police, do you reckon? No, it's like... What if it was something really expensive?

Or would you just contact Amazon and blame Amazon? I'd probably chase Amazon first because I don't think the police are going to do anything about it. Because if Amazon replaced that, surely there's loads of people doing a little cheeky thing on the side where they're like, wow, someone sold off my Porsche Amazon, got another one now, and then suddenly your whole neighborhood has iPads. I'm sure they track how many times that individual requests refunds on everything. But create like a group, a community. Yeah. All down the road and it's like, someone's stealing all our phones. It's your turn to say you're...

Packaged and arrived. Sorry, are you talking about the neighborhood watch? We're talking about the neighborhood crime gang. Neighborhood crime gang. Which is now going to fall into... Where we all say that we are... Oh, vigilanteism. No, we just say our package didn't arrive so that we all benefit from free stuff. Oh, yeah. No, totally. I'm fully in favor of shit like that, man. Like, we are not doing that kind of stuff enough. You know? Like, middle class non-millionaires should be doing all kinds of silly shit that they can get away with because, like... It has happened before where I've ordered something...

And it hasn't arrived in the timescale. I couldn't find it anywhere. So I ordered the exact same thing again. And that arrived the next day. And then three days later, someone goes, oh, by the way, this arrived in some random place where I would never have checked or never have access to. And then I've got two of that thing. And I was like, shit. Do I say anything? Two dildos. What do I do with both? Do I just use both of these dildos? Do I glue them together? And so I did. Surely not. And so I...

What did you create? I created a large wormhole in my anus. Oh, wow. Using two large plungeable dildos. Obviously, when you used them, you burned them, right? I burned them immediately after. They were plastic-based, which is what you should only burn. Perfect. And then, yeah. Nice. Put the fire out with sand. But, yeah, I mean, like, it's fun to talk about all this stuff, isn't it? I guess. Try to make light of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, we are trying to make light of it, aren't we? Someone literally tried to steal from you. Yeah. That just happened. But then I guess they were thinking the same thing, the Amazon thing, where it's like, well, it's a victimless crime. I think so. All you have to do is press order again and be like, it didn't arrive. When you see an Amazon parcel, you're like, they're covered. Which is probably why there's also insurance scams where people break really hard in front of you and then just...

That's what I've got. That's what I've got. We'll do that in a minute. The only way you can stop that happening is by creating a country where people feel the social obligation not to do that to each other. Like that's the problem. But what's happened now is it's just increased the cost. Well, everyone's buying dash cams. I've got them. Ring fucking doorbells. By my God, like ring doorbells

a whole other issue really i mean like i guess it's okay to film things but like i don't know well i guess my car does the same thing record shit people does it yeah i think the worrying reality is like so those uh one of my friends had their home broken into a few months ago then they had cct they had all those nest cameras and stuff set up they could see these guys going off but their faces covered

And they didn't catch him. And they couldn't track them down. And the police only have so many resources. So in reality, it's kind of like you are... It did make me think, well, fuck, you are just on your own. And also, if you get violently attacked, you can't really call the police before it's happened or it's about to happen. It's like...

You get fucked over and then you hope the system works out. Unless you have more presence of police, more cops on the beat, which requires money. To deter the idea of doing it in the first place. Yeah, exactly. But yeah. I think the solution... I've got a solution. And it's a per-home basis. Okay, okay, nice. We like per-home basis solutions. We've solved this issue that we've discussed. The problem is...

Disguises, right? They cover themselves. So at the front, and again, it's going to use a bit of water. Oh, right, okay. You jet them, stripping them of their clothes, and then take photos and get video evidence. So is that non-lethal evidence?

Wow. Bit lethal. You've got to strip their clothing off. Do you want to lay a trap for this guy? Yeah, I'd love to. We could fucking try. We could. It'd be really awkward. We'd just have to confront someone and make them feel shit. Who's the guy that used to work at NASA that did the troll porch pirate things? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stinky smells. Oh, you could set up a trap. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Where it gets like a tar and feather scenario. Oh my God. Oh, what the fuck? Oh, covered in feathers. And he's like, oh. You could, I'm sure there's some pretty pretty shit you could make. And then he has to take his mask off and boom, you got his face. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, you fucking wanker. I know where you live. At the very least, just leave a bait box that does something like that. You know, you could build one that's just like. Oh, that would be fun to film. And then like, well, yeah. Someone who doesn't damage someone's like eyesight. Well, yeah. The other thing is like, I bet.

I bet if you've... Glitter's just annoying though. Yeah. Good chance if you confronted somebody like this, they'd just be like, oh, fuck off, mate. Yeah, it would be... And knowing Bristol, they probably have some sort of knife on them.

Maybe. That guy looks less like a knife guy and more like a chancer, to be honest with you. Do you want to Netflix and chill without paying the ridiculous subscription fees? Have two dates to prom and don't know what to do? Was your most meaningful relationship with just your dog and some peanut butter? Complications of the heart are serious business, but don't panic. Zero Degrees are turning their attention to your romantic trials and tribulations. Join Zero Degrees for an exclusive Valentine's Day live event.

on the 12th of February at 8pm. There's also an after show party where we will be doing an Am I the R Self all Valentine's Day themed. Patrons, of course, will be able to join in for free or if you want to hop in, you can pay $4 and come join the after party madness. Tickets are selling out, so be sure to grab one real quick from moment.co slash zero degrees. Come and join us. He saw the Amazon van, saw it being delivered and was like,

Fuck it. I've got a scarf on. What the fuck is this? Who orders this? Car washing fluid. That's it. Bullshit. Was it screen wash? Yeah, it was like a whole tub of it, so it was quite heavy. Because I was running low. Well, sure. So I got some more. Okay.

Well, you don't make your own at home. I'm just glad. Yeah, lemon juice and piss. I don't want that tub to melt. Which of course is how we wash our own showers at home. We've been through this. It's my own home remedy. Lemon juice and piss. That's why I never wash my toilet. I've got a little basket of lemons in my shower. Just for that.

Lemons in an unflushed toilet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get a ladle. Why is there a bunch of fruit in your toilet? Oh, no, that's just keeping it fresh. That's so disgusting. Well, it's a natural remedy. Piss has been used for millions of years. Maybe not millions. Thousands of years to cure things, make tweed, make leather, make...

Piss is useful. Urea. Stop jellyfish bites. Oh, yeah. The clip during the rounds of the piss drinker. What's his name? I don't know. The survival expert. What's his name? Bear Grylls. Getting pissed on by... His name's Robert. Teddy Bear. Teddy short for Robert. He's called Robert Grylls. Sorry, gone trot. Robert Grylls.

Scary Spice pissed on him. In what context? They were doing some sort of survival thing. He gets stung. Oh no, I've been stung by a jellyfish. I've run out of piss because I've been drinking it all day. Would you have a preference though between Robert Grylls or Scary Spice pissing on you?

If you were burning, right, you've been stung by a jellyfish. It's bad. It's really bad. It's going to do some damage to you. Robert comes up. They both come up. Which one of us do you want to piss on you? Which one would you choose? Scary spice. It's going to be scary spice, isn't it? But only because I don't want to see the pleasure that he would take in pissing on me. Yeah, he'd be able to aim pretty well, though. He'd be able to aim better. I feel like she might do it out of just pity, the fact that you're in a fire or you're burning. He put a cup underneath my arm to, like, catch the rest of his own piss so he can drink it later. Yeah. Oh, no, don't waste it.

Yeah. He's like, that's mine. But she did it. That was a whole clip of her dropping trowel and like, don't watch. Wow. There you go. Don't say I don't do anything for you. Yeah.

Just some golden shower stuff for a TV program. Interesting. Yeah, they love it. I listened to an interview with Bear Grylls about how they were choosing the production style and how they decided to... It's all fake, right? Kind of. It's not all fake, but they would chase concepts. They wouldn't go like, let's take Bear Grylls out for a walk through this environment and see what happens. They'd be like, right, we want to hit these...

and then they would put them into the show. But yeah, obviously like stuff like they would love, apparently like when they realized that he was saying, like recounting this is like when they realized that he was up for drinking his own piss, they got really fixated on like just making him do like all sorts of stuff. It wasn't his choice. No, the production staff were like, oh, you're up for doing that then. Okay, we're going to make you do lots of stuff. And he's like, okay, great. No.

Because he's like, I don't like drinking my piss. I don't prefer it, but you can do it. And they're like, and then they were like, yeah, pretty funny. They really capitalized on that. And now he's the piss drinker. Bear Grylls. He lives on an island where he has a metal bar built into the side of some rocks over a rock pool where he does pull-ups every day.

That's crazy. I know. He lives a pretty, like, lived life. I mean, a fair place for him. Well, you have to really. You have to. Yeah, yeah. You're pissed, aren't you? Yeah, but he's like, it's an English island as well. He's paid for it with piss drinking. Yeah, all pissed. Did this. He says as he does another rep. Yeah.

But it's literally like a metal bar cut into the rocks and then beneath them is just a 10 foot drop into water. That's cool. I know. I mean, it's like Wolverine. That seems a little too man-made. I'd find a natural rock. Oh, you would, yeah. Because the grip in the rocks is a challenge as well, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. And obviously I wouldn't be disturbing nature like he has by wedging metal into rock. Yeah, disgusting really, isn't it? Kind of disgusting. Okay, you're an island first. That's true, yeah. Where is this island? It's in England. It's off the coast of England. It's not amazing.

amazing it's the isle of wight yeah come call it your island robert yeah yeah yeah i'm sure you could buy it the isle of wight how much do you know about it a lot oh fuck it's got three prisons on it ross three government prisons ones on prison too cash rich high secure nonce prison really jesus can they not swim god

I think they just want them away from everyone else. I mean, it's quite a good deterrent of anyone, really. What? Sticking them in prison? Large bodies of water surrounding them. Like Alcatrans. Well, yeah. I mean, because that way, you know, if they do escape, they either die from exposure or drown. Prison seems awful, doesn't it?

I was watching something the other day about how there's a new fad called strips in the US prisons where you get pieces of very, very thin paper, sometimes from Bibles and things like that, basically smokeable paper, spray them with bug spray and smoke them. Bug spray? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why? Because it has a psychoactive effect, but it also is causing absolutely horrendous side effects. It's a bit like when you think, why would anyone do crocodiles?

And you're like, well, because it's there. Yeah, but like... Yeah, literally people are smoking. And I just saw some videos of like people in sales doing it in the US. And I'm just like...

I don't think I'd survive that. I don't think I'd survive that environment. I think I'd just be like, yeah, I can't do this. Sorry. That's what I was saying. Don't do that. You need to do something pretty hard to get in those environments though, right? Well, hopefully. I mean, I think it's more... Are you not going in there for finance crimes or something? Well, you are. No, fraud and finance crimes can do huge amounts of time. Fraud carries a massive... Fraud, I think, carries a 15-year term in the UK. Yeah, but I feel like they put people in certain prisons based on the level of crime or what they've done. So if you did a violent crime, you're not going to be someone who just, you know...

Fiddled his tax a little bit. Depends on capacity and shit, I guess. Maybe, I don't know. Yeah, they have different wings. I thought there was like a bit of like kind of a high security versus. Depends on the lobbying of the people involved. Like if it's health insurance, for example, being targeted, the person that's taxed health insurance is going to want that person punished, right? And they can pay for such punishment to happen. Oh yeah, but also if that person will actually kill someone. Make an example. I'm just comparing like to a violent crime. I wasn't talking about that. Oh.

Right. What were you referring to? I was talking about that. Oh, right, I see. I just mean in terms of, yeah, if someone's strangled someone with their bare hands versus someone who is just a pencil pushing, just fiddle the numbers for some rich guy.

I think there's some nuance to it. Definitely. I think that the conditions can be similar though. I think the U S in particular is bad because they have such a corporate prison system, which is incentivized to make things small and worse and save costs. Well, to an extent. Yeah. But in the UK, like whilst we're not doing it great at all either, um,

we perhaps don't have the same nightmarish conditions as the US, but we still have pretty bad conditions. It's quite remarkable to think there's only 90,000 people in the UK in prison at any one time. That's the most we can house, 90,000 in a population of 60 million. That's a bit silly, isn't it? The rest of them, what are they doing? Stealing fucking parcels off of Trott's doorstep is what they're doing. Stealing parcels off of Trott's doorstep.

Get in a bloody way with it. Back off. I think Bear Grylls' name is Edward apparently. He'd been fact-checked. Oh, fuck. Of course, because Teddy is short for Edward, not for Robert. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we stopped fact-checking in 2025, but okay. Oh, I fucked it up. Did he upgrade himself from Teddy to Bear? No, so Teddy is short for Edward. Yeah. And he was called Teddy Bear.

That was his nickname as a child. That's what I said. So he took bear. That's what I said. Yeah. Well, you said, did he upgrade? Yeah. I don't think he upgraded. No, it was a natural process of people calling him the standards sort of nickname for his name. No, I'm a bear. And then he wanted to do that. I'm sure he did that. Yeah. To him, an upgrade. Yeah. At some point he was belligerent with the people around him and they said, you know, call me bear. I'm a bear now. I'm a bear now. I'm a full blown adult. Look what I did to the cat.

I'm a bear now. I'm a bear. And they were like, all right, all right, Edward, you're a bear. All right, Teddy. Now, can we please bury the cat? Yeah. You put that cup of piss down. Put that, have a nice hot cup of piss. All right, we'll calm down. You were calling me Robert for ages. Have some respect for this funeral rite. Who's Robert? All right, anyway, I think that's plenty.

for you to stew on. A lot of gas talk. Was this our first podcast in 2025? It was our first one in 2025. It was a bumper one, wasn't it? Starting off strong. I feel like it wasn't too depressing this time. No, no. Or too divisive. We covered a lot of gas talk. A lot of gas talk there. Yeah. Some historical and educational bits of where gas came from. And the art of fartistry. Yeah.

maybe reference you can read a book called who cut the cheese a historical a cultural history of the fart by Jim Dawson wow he discusses in depth about lighting farts on fire and the dangers of doing such things what up your reading count start off strong who cut the cheese a cultural history of the fart just for clarity don't burn plastic

Oh yeah, that was very much a joke. Burning it, the whole point is extremely toxic. If you breathe in it, it's really bad for you. It ruins the environment. Yeah, burning things doesn't make them go away. And in fact, wood burners create more PM2.5 particles, which are like the largest micro particles that can affect your lungs, than exhausts on cars. So wood stoves create between 400 and 600 PM2.5 parts per million, and a

car creates about 200 to 400 you just fucked off the entire cottage core community all of scotland they fucking love wood they try to ban wood burners in scotland but people like you have burnt plastic before and you see it just literally just it looks like it disappears so don't be fooled guys the waves it's not like steam that come off it though looks it's called green suspect yeah yeah so don't do it i've melted let's give it to me and i'll deal with it

I still think about the time I melted lead for hours and breathed that in. Lead? Hours and hours of lead melting. Why were you melting lead? I've told you this story before. We pulled all the lead off the top of an old disused building that my friend owned. We didn't burn it. We melted it in tuna cans. And then we poured it into fishing weight casts.

So we had a fishing weight cast and we were like, yeah, we can make all the fishing cast we want because we had literally tons of lead and we would just break bits off, melt it in a tuna can over an open flame and I just inhale that shit and it's really bad for you. That's really bad, yeah. Don't do that either. That stays in your body for a long time, doesn't it? I don't want it in there. It's too late. It's too late.

It's too late, isn't it? Why can't AI think of a little micro machine to eat all that shit out of me? That's why I'm so... I mean, stupider things have happened. Yeah. And, you know, asbestos was used to build houses, so... We've all got microplastics in our balls as well. Yeah. That's not our fault. Thanks for listening. Thank you. We'll see you all next week for more Hat Chat. Have a great time. Bye for now. Bye. Bye. I'm waving, as you can hear from all the coats we're wearing. That's why you should get an answer to the dressing gown, specifically.

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