Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Hatchette Podcast, episode 161. That's right, 161. I'm Ross Hornby. Oh, he is Ross Hornby. I'm Alex Smith and that music was by Robert Clark. Thank you very much for that jangly little... I'm Chris Trott.
Yes, Christoph. You're welcome. If you had to listen to that music anywhere, like a setting, where would you put it on? I'd like it in a bowling alley or a roller rink. Bowling alley. Funeral? Yeah. A funeral? You'd play that song at a funeral? Yeah, as though they put the casket in for burning for the cremation. It's so weird. It's also very elevator-y. There's something light about it, do you know what I mean? It's disco. It is disco-y. Oh.
The full thing will be at the end of the episode. So thank you, Robert Clark, for sending that in. You can also send your fingles in to our email. We still use electronic-mail, hatchat-films.com. Thank you kindly. What's a hyphen? It's a dash. Oh.
Hyphen is a dash, yeah. Good. Just a little line that's not underneath letters. It's in between letters. I hope that's universal, though, because sometimes having to explain a hyphen and a dash is even more confusing. Anytime I do it, like, what's your email on a phone thing, customer service? I always try and say hyphen, and they're like, what was that?
And I always have to say dash. I thought that would be more specific to that symbol. Say dash first, and then if they're quite confused, hyphen.
And then you have to explain that little line. It's the little line next to the plus. No, no, not on the score. Don't hold shift. It's just tap that one next to the plus button. Anyway, it's actually February 29th today. What does that make that today special? It's a leap day. It's the release of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. Yeah, that too. That's not... A huge day for Alex Smith. Look at him, he's beaming.
You can't wait for Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, which is the second part of the remaster of Final Fantasy VII. Or remake. So that's good. Do you think it's going to be a much bigger game than the last one? Apparently it's huge. Huge? Like, they're doing the open map thing. Okay. The first one felt a little bit like it was just like a fluffer. Oh, yeah. Like it was like... Big build. Like Doom 1. Obviously, because if you played the original, the very original...
you can do everything in it. You have to swap discs? Yeah, but that's only because of the 700 megabyte limitation. They gave you the whole thing. They're padding it out now. So they gave you the tip, and now this is what, most of the length? Yeah, but well...
I don't know why that's the analogy I've come with. If you have played it recently and you do get to disc two, I know this is boring as fuck. Disc two, don't spoil it. That's all right. I'll just empty your brain for a bit. It's very much. I find it very relaxing to not think, so go for it. Shut off for a second. It's pretty good. Disc two is an illusion of world map.
Like you get that 3D map. Yeah. But ultimately you can only go certain places until you've done certain parts of the story. And also you're literally just going to an area. It's loading a small zone. You do that. So I think nostalgia brain is like, it was a huge world map where everything opens up and you can do so much. Did you ever run around in like the same bush area, like thousands and thousands of times, not just to get choked, but just to level up. Just to level up and grind. Just grind like a little bush.
Like it wasn't balanced. The same bush, but over and over and over and over again. Certain bosses you needed to grind for because you're like unbalanced. I would almost do it with my eyes closed. I would just tap A, A, A, A, A, A. Rubber band. Rubber band on the joystick. Back in the saddle. And you go round and round and round again. I don't know if you can do that in this new one. Have you played any of the remasters where they like, you press L1 and R1 and it just speeds up the game?
oh shit no I have yeah yeah yeah they just do it where you can take out you can take out well you can you can cheat entirely you can just make yourself max out which obviously there's no point in the game at all then I'm here for the story the story's fine sure but like and to feel like an absolute god while progressing through an easy stuff okay summons yeah let's get the knights on this oh my god the big summons are out well okay well I mean glad that's out
on a day that only exists every four years. That's pretty cool. It's magical. What if something really important happened today? How do you celebrate that next year? We just say it happens. You say 28th or which day would you choose?
You could choose whichever one you like. Would you choose the 1st of March or the 28th of February? Or would you turn both of those into Magnum and this day? What do leap year babies do? They age at one quarter of the speed. They are special. They're born today. They're like Duna Dane. I think I spoke to Duncan earlier. He said, like, if you're born today and you're my age, you'd be born in the 1800s or something like that.
Like the math. Sounds like you guys really saw eye to eye in this conversation. For being a 37-year-old born on a leap year. 37-year-old born on a leap year. Would have to be from the 1800s. Oh, if you only counted the years with leap years in them. Yes, because it's four times essentially the age. But obviously that's insane. Yeah, obviously. It's like doing an arbitrary calendar to dictate someone's age. No, it's revolutions around the sun. Would you feel more special or hard done by?
More special. More special. If today was your birthday. Yeah. Because like when it lines up... Well, happy birthday to everyone whose birthday is today. When it's on that leap year... It's huge. It's like me. It's actually my fucking birthday. Every four years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think it's a fun thing. I get fucking crazy. Well, you would get crazy. I would go insane on that day. Wouldn't you? I don't...
bleep your fucking day I would strip myself naked paint myself with deer blood and mud and run through the forests of Dean also I why you might get attacked by a by Dean badger I had this theory that the people of Gloucester call it the forest of Dean because once a year they meet and have all the people called Dean in the area compete in like a Hunger Games style environment Deans! Deans! Deans!
Show yourself, Deans. Come out of the mud. The forest of Deans. There's one Dean that wins and roams the place like a stag. Mega Dean. I see the Dean. He's glowing. He's got antlers. He's strapped into his head like that QAnon shaman. Yeah.
The Dean of the Forest. Anyway, that's February 29th covered. Yeah, that's Leap Year covered. So it's a special day for some people every four years. If I was born on Leap Year, I'd have both of my birth years as well. Like, sure, I'm 29 or whatever, but actually I'm four. Something like that. You think they would make it some sort of like bank holiday for like every four years? I mean, it'd be nice, wouldn't it? Once every four years. I mean, it really is. Second day. The inaccuracy of a Roman calendar should be celebrated. Save up those hours.
Yeah, it is. Save up those hours and then take a day. We should switch to souls, shouldn't we? We should. We should go with space-time now, like relative to the orbiting sun, one soul. And that would be cool. That would make people feel like they're sort of part of progress, I think. Like even if they're not.
But like propaganda-wise or culturally, it'd be kind of nice to be like... How's time handled in a game like Stellaris? Like where it's multi solar systems. Like months, I think. And how do they relatively do sync time between suns and planets? They use universal time, I think. It's an atomic clock.
Is there an atomic clock? But what is that based on? So there's got to be one solar system that they're like, we're basing all of universal time on this revolution. Honestly, I can't tell you. Why not? I'm sorry. I don't know. I haven't really thought about it. I've been too busy trying to make weird creatures do strange things to each other and live in systems of government. Different priorities. Different priorities rather than like, what time is it? What time is it? It's just local time. It's just a real time war.
I just want to know before we do anything else, how many seconds have gone by for you? Am I using faster than light communication? Because technically I'm talking to you in the past. What's the latency here? We could cheat various stock markets using this technology like big time. You want to get rich? You would think they would have thought of that, but yeah, you're right. Yeah. Absolutely. Instantaneous communications. First person to crack that gets real rich.
You sent us something last night, which is space-based. It is very Stellaris and space-based. Go on, Alex. Go on. Go for it, Smith. Go on. Explain more exactly you. Can I read the article? You can. So. If your eyes allow you.
The mathematically perfect exoplanet system, a great place to search for alien tech. This is on space.com. Here we go. Late last year, astronomers discovered a fascinating star system only 100 light years away. It's six sub-Neptune planets circle very close to their host star in mathematically perfect orbits, piquing the interest of scientists searching for alien technology or techno signatures, which they argue would offer compelling evidence of advanced life beyond Earth.
To be clear, no such evidence was found in the system. However, the researchers say they're not done looking yet. It remains an interesting target for similar observations in the future. So here's the details on it. Just quickly, 100 light years, just 100 light years away, would take the rough astronaut between 400 and 413 years...
To get there. That's quite long, isn't it? Doesn't feel like your classic holiday. Yeah. So, although it's close in light-year terms... Yeah, but that's how they measure all this stuff. It's never going to be like... It's all big, isn't it? It's all too big. Yeah. It's all too vast. But anyway, yeah, you found the perfect mathematically...
perfect situation of a solar system to have life. So, yeah, there was a good explanation of it on Reddit. Essentially, it followed, I think, the Fibonacci pattern or something like that. 3.14. Something like that. That's pi. Yeah, which is the Fibonacci. Right, okay. It's the golden ratio. Yeah, so it followed the golden ratio. So, like...
nine planets surrounded the star, then four, then three or whatever. Sorry. I'm just trying to find the proper, uh, cause the article I linked to you doesn't actually have the, it would suck. It's like, obviously the chances of having life pretty minuscule to begin with. Yeah. Also there's a whole thing about, you know, another planet being embedded in the earth's crust, but that's a different thing. Um,
But you may have the best home ever for life. There could be no one home. Well, the more interesting thing about this, I think, is like it's not necessarily the conditions in the system were like good for carbon based life or whatever. It was the for every like so scientists have found a star system that are 100 light years away, which is basically in our backyard, because the galaxy, just our galaxy is 100,000 light years wide.
So it's pretty close in terms of how wide the galaxy is. It's going to take millions of years to go from one side to the other. But what was crazy, so the mathematically precise orbits of where the planets aligned, every 54 orbits of a planet. So in more detail, for every 54 orbits of planet A, planet B makes 36, planet C makes 24, planet D makes 16, planet E makes 12, planet F makes 8, giving successive ratios of...
2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 3, 4, 3, 4. So after 54 orbits of planet A, all planets are in the same relative position. So if you imagine, like, yeah, so like the ones further out are moving at a faster pace. The ones further in are moving at a slower pace. So once they all complete a rotation, they line up in the same precise position. Sounds manufactured to me. Exactly. So they're like, this seems like
It is possible that this could have happened naturally because there are certain actions and things that happen within physics that could cause this to happen within natural programs. But it's such an anomaly. And it's so perfect for the sci-fi idea of there are some all-powerful aliens out there that can literally just arrange a solar system to be like, lol, look at this. Made this clock. We made a solar system that's literally a little clock. Like...
And, you know, there's a lot of fun, very Stellar-y sort of thinking you could do around this. It's just like, weird, look at this. We've literally found a Stellaris-style anomaly. You know, like, what's going on here? Weird, you found a solar system that's like mathematically perfectly arranged.
What are the odds? That's just like one tool tip for... It just pops up and then goes away again. Cool. But yeah, really cool, kind of interesting discovery. What if they're spelling something out in Morse code? I'm just trying to send a message. Yeah, possibly. It's just A, A, A, A, R. So how do they discover this? Just through various algorithms. Just telescopes. Radio telescopes, perhaps. And there'll be tiny dots of light that then they calculate when it goes dark, which is when it goes behind the sun.
And they can calculate the speed and the radius of the... It's insane what little they work with to then map a solar system like that. You can feel like the inaccuracy could be staggeringly wide to get it wrong. It's like, oh, actually, no, we got a 0.1 difference on that, so the whole thing's fucked. We just got it a bit wrong.
Yeah, it's crazy. And like, yeah, like I said, people say there's like sort of solar system resonance that does exist, which causes orbits and things to happen in certain patterns. So can I see this? Huh? If I look outside? If you look outside, yeah, yeah, just go out. Or am I just looking at it organically by just looking up at the sky? I think if you get the new Samsung, like digital zoom, you can like...
really get in there have you seen the zooming on the latest Samsungs it goes to the moon you're like I saw someone on a hill and they zoomed all the way in onto a cricket match yeah yeah it was like multiple fields away it's insane that's pretty cool so I reckon with that you could see this so for sure no need for like crazy telescopes don't need James Webb no that seems I'm looking forward to more James Webb info because that is the state of the art big boy that's going to discover like how the universe starts what if it shows you something you don't want to see
I want to see it. Like what? I don't know. What would you not want to see? Just two eyes looking back. It's like the size of the universe. Just a guy blinking. Those black holes are actually giant eye holes. Are we in a tiny box? Or you see the edge of render distance and things popping in and out.
You know how I was talking about seeing the edge of reality the other day? I was like, wouldn't it be crazy to see, like, before you die, just the edge of the universe, like, the very expanse. But Kurtzgesagt have just done a video about it. Oh, really? About, like, what's at the edge of reality or the edge of the universe. Nothingness. Yeah, it's very interesting. Well, not even that it's nothingness. Also, everything exists. Like, time exists. Yeah. There's also, like, a whole, like,
the impracticality of you know time and the relativity of like moving through space you know like when there's nothing to move into yeah but also it's kind of like you're coming from the past or you come from the future it really fucking wacky stuff but it's very interesting yeah it's impressive they're launching wooden satellites oh yeah the japanese ones yeah um because apparently it didn't degrade under their testing certain type of wood which was i believe magnolia
It doesn't re-enter the atmosphere then. It's one of those things. Well, the whole point is that when it re-enters, it'll burn out and just be ashes rather than leave a load of potential. Really cool. That's a cool idea. Also, just like the idea of just having a wooden satellite is so badass. It's like we used wood for thousands and thousands of years and now it's up there in space doing a thing. I imagine that it can't be 100% wood, obviously. It needs electronics. Yeah, of course. Of course. Cables. But I imagine in terms of the...
like the economy of it because obviously there's so many up there when it gets you know decommissioned just literally just turns into ash why didn't starlink think of that eh the amount of fucking starlinks that are dropping out of the sky i have no idea maybe they are thinking about these things i mean it's probably just not cost effective is it what about like if if just hear me out a second hearing you out just with trot talking about you know whether the the
the satellite would be constructed entirely of wood. Okay, yeah, sure. I'm thinking of a situation where we could maybe have a marble powered wooden satellite where all the equations... Marble's just glass with a funny pattern in the middle. Yeah. Okay. But you know how they do those little marble runs that drop down and stuff? What is it called? We built a really complicated, really large wooden marble computer, right? Yeah. And
And it generates energy through the kinetic movement of the marbles that we all start at the top before we launch the satellite. And then we fire it up into space. And then when it gets into space, it releases the bag of marbles. And then everything starts working for a period of time until all the marbles are at the bottom. Then you've got to shoot another rocket. And then they have one disaster where the marbles split and it just destroys a thousand different satellites. Shotguns. Oh God, the marbles are scattering through.
They're hitting several important satellites. Just a little quickie there. So the satellite reaches out of orbit. It's a marble construction inside a wooden case of magnolia. Magnolia, yeah. So the marble, you're like, okay, release the tray. Yeah.
There's no gravity. No gravity. Oh, fuck. Like, how is that going to work? So it doesn't work. It drifts out into the belt, like Ross says. Gets clipped by something. Shatters. The trajectory of it is insane. It'd be shocking that it got to that stage before they realised it didn't work. Considering we figured that out within seconds. It's a gravity-based system. We didn't think about gravity.
Was it a Ruhlenberg machine? A Rube Goldberg machine. That's what I'm describing. Rube Goldberg. So complex and at such scale. Imagine how big it would have to be to have the capability to be a computer. Like Mousetrap, but in space. Like something Seth Bling would make in Minecraft. Seth Bling. What a callback. I think he still makes stuff. He makes a lot of stuff in Escape Simulator now. Fun fact. Oh, yeah. You tried to hand it that, didn't you? I did.
They keep sending me DLC, those. Bless them. Because I made that duo map for you two to... Oh, when it escapes him? Yeah. I made that whole thing. They like that.
Bless him. That's good, isn't it? We should talk about that Willy Wonka event that happened. Yeah, go on. I feel like I've heard it. I'm surprised how viral it went. I think Americans are talking about this. It's miserable. It's miserable. People love seeing a miserable thing. I like the title. Where was it? In Glasgow? Was it in Edinburgh? Was it Scotland or somewhere? Oh, it's UK based? No, don't put it on us.
Yeah, so it was a Willy... Sorry, it was called Willy's Chocolate Experience. So I'm guessing they didn't have the rights to use the full Willy Wonka. And you're probably fine to say Willy's Chocolate Experience, which could be anything, really. Really whittle it down, that title, could be anything. It's such a bad title. The Willy Experience. $44 each. It's equivalent of $44, which I swear I saw someone say it was over £100 a ticket.
for some instances. It wasn't affiliated with the Warner Brothers movie, but the marketing came as close as possible to suggesting it was based on Roald Dahl's creation.
So basically, from the photos, which we'll have to describe to you, they made this very interesting PR stuff, which is out of AI. So magical worlds, candy sticks everywhere, and it was all lit very well. But it was just done in an empty, abandoned warehouse with a couple of very loose...
themed kind of items based around. So there's like a little shitty looking cloud and a rainbow thing that's very cobbled together just in the middle of this like a grey warehouse. Fuck me. And like I think there's also some pictures of just like yeah some printouts of
uh scenery which is like which again just like a printer but like how big would you say that is on that wall it doesn't even fill the wall it doesn't feel like a two by two meter square yeah picture printed badly that looks like one of those sort of knockoff beach towels yeah um and it's on a a wall that's probably about five by three meters yeah so it's sort of like it takes up about a third of the stuff so the the magic is not really there um
And it's just a very loose candy land. What's weird is some of this looks decent. Some of the props. Some of these mushrooms and stuff. Proper candy canes and stuff. But it's so sparse. That's the thing. If you had a ton of this, it would look great. The floor is a grey carpet. And then there's like six freestanding props. Like a mushroom. They're all just spread around. A lollipop.
And some plants and stuff Fabric backdrop that looks like a factory But it looks like a photo studio backdrop Yeah But they had actors They hired actors for it as well There was a guy who was hired to be Willy Wonka himself Or I guess he must have had a different slightly different name Just Willy He was quite upset because he feels like It's going to damage his public profile he said
because being associated with this he wanted to try and get into the acting thing and he's like now my face is all over these newspapers of like the shit Willy Wonka he could probably play into it in some way I don't think this would have ever been like a serious role that would have launched it no no this was it Ross it's like a back and back he's script was AI as well yeah it was an AI script and apparently the enemy that they kind of created was called like the unknown right and it was just like kind of a freaky mask and like a cloaked character that kind of
hid behind a mirror. God, it sounds so bad. Oh, here comes the unknown. And then he would like kind of dance his head around the mirror in a very weird way. And there's also like an Oompa Loompa, which is just a very sad, upset looking woman with green wig on. The thing is, it's so clearly like the makings of like a real kind of like
sort of like shy kind of like charlatan that's it yeah like it's like somebody's tried but they've used so many shortcuts like that's the thing it's like
The AI thing especially. It's a very interesting case study for people using AI to try and create and speed something up. And then it just... Falls flat. Yeah, just coming apart because of just how garbage it is. I imagine people that aren't aware of AI art see this wondrous Willy Wonka recreation. Yeah, yeah. It looks incredible. Yeah. That creates that expectation. It looks like those projectors involved from the promo images. It looks...
really good. But like, yeah, they've half-assed it in the worst kind of way. The comparison of the two images we're looking at here is particularly stark. The one that the AI generated to promote the event looks like the highest end model
modern theme park you can think of where there's lights in the ceiling, lights in the floor. The sides, either side of this walkway tunnel thing have like lighting, greenery, huge, real looking props. It looks like a real Willy Wonka. The sky is in space. Yeah. It looks like it's achievable just about, but by like absolute top end designers. The reality of it looks like a strip mall with a prop that,
You know when you see those plastic dogs outside of shops to collect money? It looks like the same as that. A scattering of a few. Did you hear what he also gave the kids? A single jelly bean and a quarter of a cup of Tesco lemonade or something. So he got a complimentary drink and it was just a quarter of a can of Schweppes out of a can. Imagine the parents having to tell the kids...
It would just be so depressing. I don't even like... It would just be so shit. And obviously they were complaining afterwards, so... I mean, you wouldn't. You'd rip it. That's the thing. I think if I'd gone to this, I would very much have no problem just going, this is total garbage, guys. You need to give me my money back. This is rubbish. Because they'd be there probably trying to, you know, like...
convince their kid that this was a good thing almost or themselves because obviously when you spend X amount of money on something you also kind of want to sell it to yourself in a way you do but at the same time you don't want to feel like you were duped into it but clearly you were but like yeah you were and like you know it was an effective duping I don't think the people who got duped need to feel bad what it is is you almost have to go with a smile on your face to like to the person who's responsible and just go come on yeah like are you kidding me there was a video of them like accosting the guy yeah they called the police apparently on it
Well, yeah, because he was just a fucking idiot. He just set this shitty event up. I mean, the thing is, yeah, you can't repeat that event.
You can do that once and that's it. There was a Minecraft one, remember that? Oh yeah, ages ago. It was sold as a really fancy awesome event and it was really naff. It had barely anything there. I can't remember what it was called. And the thing is, some of the actual well-made events are a bit depressing to go to. Do you know what I mean? Obviously they can't really compare necessarily to this, but like
Fucking hell, this is so miserable. You're right, yeah. Why people go to events. How do you put on a good event? Like, because TwitchCon's coming up. There's going to be TwitchCon in Rotterdam this year. Maybe the last ever, right? I think the last ever. I've been saying this for a while, but I don't know how long Twitch is going to be around. Enjoy it whilst it lasts. Yeah, well, they keep saying they're not making any money. No, um...
but anyway they uh that's happening in rotterdam but like we were at the last one in las vegas and uh it's very odd it's odd it's it's hard to work out we've been to so many different kinds of conventions now like you know we've been to twitch cons we've been to e3s we've been to insomnia events we've been to like what else random like store launch style events we've been to uh
the Razor store opening. There's lots of different experiences we've had of trying to bring fans to an event. What do they get? What do they experience? What do they see? And what do they value as well? Because I remember a time where I was perfectly excited to go to an event as a punter, let's say. Before we did YouTube even, I would like...
I'd like the idea of going to a gaming event just to see gaming brands on a shelf and stuff like that. Nowadays, those conventions are just different arrangements of the same brands going to all the conventions. And Amazon exists now, so you can kind of just get it off from there. It's quite cool to see new tech and stuff. Occasionally, you'll see an indie thing, like a startup that's like, oh, this is really interesting. But mostly, it's the big brands with the big booths that are there every time, like Logitech and HyperX and...
And also, why should you pay for that, is my other question. To go into a new store, essentially. Well, I guess the equivalent is...
you're walking through a sea of adverts. Yeah. You're working, you work like a lot of these conventions that there's a few talks and shit, but half the talks are rubbish. You know, like we, we've been part of talks in the past. Like some of them have been fine. Some of them have been fun. You know, as long as the audiences have enjoyed it, that's what we wanted to do. But they ask you like crazy shit. Like we once got told, remember the thing we did in the V&A museum in London where they asked us to do like a talk on like basically how to become a YouTuber. And we were like, well, it,
it's a lot of, it's hard to go like, these are all the skills you need and all the conditions you need to thrive. You know, like we didn't, we also, we didn't really know how to teach that as well. I think like we've been doing it for four or five years. It's a real fine line between like a,
uh lifestyle coach yeah inspirational speaker yeah i didn't want to feel like a charlatan exactly most people sell courses on how to like do youtube and yeah yeah yeah exactly it just feels like you don't fucking know what you're talking about and everyone and all these people who do it just got their fire through luck yeah i mean they've got lucky break i'm gonna say all power to him spiffing brit mm
very highly successful what he did. But, you know, it didn't work for us, the advice he gave us, which is fair enough. Yeah, there's a thing like some stuff works for other people more than others. It doesn't work for everyone. It's like a completely different experience. Yeah, like it's not an easily teachable thing. No. You can't just guide someone and say, oh, you can be a massive... I think the problem is as well, like the bigger you are, the more you probably inflate your ego into thinking...
I know how this all works. I've beaten the system. Why wouldn't I impart this wisdom onto other people? You could listen to MrBeast and all his advice and stuff. But if you copied everything he did, you'd never, you would never get to where he is. No. That's just not how that works. That's not how YouTube works. That's not how the algorithm works.
I'd argue the one time it did work for someone like that was Jacksepticeye. Because he used to be a fan of PewDiePie, entered a competition to get his video shown or something like that. And then he got catapulted on PewDiePie's channel. Oh, right. But that's just...
That's through a collaboration, technically. It's like a competition. Yeah. So... But like, yeah, I guess, yeah. The real challenge is... Made him huge. The real challenge is to keep it going once you get lucky. I guess that's something you could probably kind of teach, but to a degree, but even then... And don't become an arsehole. Yeah. Or already be an arsehole and have your public life expose the various failings in your own life that you haven't actually addressed. Yeah. That's always a tough one because you get idolized so quickly.
And then you're like, whoa, wait a minute. I'm not a fully formed person. And this life doesn't necessarily lend you to becoming even more formed. We know so many that became famous still in their teens. Yeah. And then their whole adult life is being a YouTuber or streamer. I think the thing that comes up the most is how people just find it quite isolating. Yeah. Because they all just start in their bedroom and they're like, oh, that's a dream job. I can just work in my bedroom and that's it. And it's like, yeah, sure. It's great for a bit. But then they all kind of say how...
Isolating and lonely. Realize you don't work with anyone, you just do everything yourself or you overwork because you're working until like five. It is a dream job. It's very different. There's so many aspects of it that you can't tangibly say this is hard to
to people that work hard day-to-day jobs. From the perspective of the consumer, this looks piss easy. You just turn up for a bit, you play games for a living, and then you record and edit and throw it up. Easy peasy. But it comes with the mental stress, dealing with people that give you immediate feedback and all that stuff, just surface-level stuff that makes this job hard is...
taking a fucking beating from your sense and having everything exposed and uh having that paranoia of everything going away tomorrow as well the instability of the job is always yeah it's not a very natural human state to be in i think is part of the problem same with actors as well i think like same with like people in the public eye in general it's not um it's not easy i think like
it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not compatible with a healthy human. A lot of the time. Um, I think that like you, if you think about like tribal structures and things like that and how like people used to be and how some people used to be, you know, like,
the people that others looked up to be it like a cultural leader be a you know an actual tribal leader or whatever and i think that's about as much stress as the human brain ever would go under in terms of like human brain yeah or even being a parent you know as well as like that kind of form of stress where you have these people that look up to you and rely on you responsible for you yeah and you you have that and that's a huge challenge and i think that's where naturally those challenges come up as a human being but then if you're a person in the public eye that has an audience or or
or you make your money from putting yourself out there ultimately. That's, yeah, it's a stress of its own. It's kind of a weird kind of stress, isn't it? That definitely takes a toll. There's certain things that like, because of the internet culture, I think people's filters are completely different now. Like you would be exposed to like thoughts and opinions and,
of yourself that you would never hear because there's a cultural level of respect. Like you wouldn't just walk into a room full of people and they all turn to look at you and make verbal comments about you and how you're speaking. It's like, boring. All right. Uh,
Why is he blinking so much? Oh, you look pretty ill today. Yeah, yeah. Like tired or something? That's very true, yeah. Your mum said that to me in real life. Yeah, she did. She did. Oh, then forget. I'll get some of the sticks for you. I was like, no, I'm fine. She's like, no, you look really ill. I was like, oh, okay.
So it does happen. It's an anomaly. But imagine that on mass. But the other counterargument, what other people would say, is I guess that that's part and parcel of doing it. If you didn't want to do it, you just stop. Which I kind of agree with. If you can't really handle it, don't do it. Because obviously...
you can get a different job. We could get, if we couldn't handle it, obviously we've learned to over the years. Yeah. Just stop. It's still the best job you can get. Yeah. It's hard to fall off. But that's why you stay on it though. Just leaving because it's stressful is one thing. But like, I think it's also the fact that it's like you stress yourself because it's worth it. Um,
And then also it depends on how big you are because obviously like, you know, if you've got all these people who are leaving at the moment on YouTube, whatever, they've made millions. Yeah. They're sat on a massive wad of cash and it's like, cool, they can leave. They could have left years ago. I don't think that's the frame of mind that works though. That's the thing, like when you get more, you see the next bar. Yeah, but like as in they are comfortable enough they could leave and be like, okay, I'm financially secure. Yeah, they can. For what price do you put on your mind basically and they're paying a high price for some reason.
Yeah, like if we blew up tomorrow, I think our mentality would be like... Not physically, right? Not physically. But like as in the mentality towards it would be slightly different and obviously we might change the way we work. Yeah. And be like, oh, I really want to do this then. Okay, well, let's do that then. Let's do that because we know that that's, you know, something we all want to do and we can, you know, we're financially stable whereas there is an element of...
we rely on this as a job. Absolutely, yeah. So it's a very different way of thinking for some people. There's a physical labor job that hurts you physically and will probably give you continual back pain. I feel like this is mental problems. There are cultural upsides and downsides. Sorry, not cultural. Physical and mental costs to every different kind of jobs. The difference with this specific industry, whereas other industries where it has more established...
and things like that and things in place to support people like HR departments in corporate businesses. Hollywood has a structure of like having agents who work for you and help you. When you do YouTube and you just explode, you're on your own. You're exposed to like the top line of things and you're also... You have no support structure to help you at all. It's quite...
Like, the Yogscast were quite, like, unique in our case. Like, we still have a network of people that are around us. Sure, it's not a support structure. Everyone's, like, horizontal. There's no HR department or whatever. But, yeah, like, most people are in their fucking bedrooms exploding online and being exposed to all of this bullshit. Those ones are making huge money. Those ones are exploding online. Those ones are really making the money, I hear. Yeah. Yeah.
so I can see why there's so much mental instability you don't want to talk about any of that stuff because ultimately I don't think people can relate to it to be like oh they are playing games and that is what everyone sees and why would you talk about anything else as in we're not going to you know you don't want to bring people down
It's like watching a celebrity complain, right, about their life. Exactly. And obviously in real terms... Yeah, there's elements of poor me to it, but at the same time you can still share what you think and people can just be like, okay, that's interesting. It's relatable. They can be like, oh, poor you, for sure, but fuck, they could also just be interested. You know the streamer Hassan?
Yeah. He literally had this very discussion last week, I think. Right. And obviously then he got a huge backlash from people saying how easy his job was. Right. But then his job is, he's literally like making political commentary all the time. Yeah, he's really exposing himself. Constant backlash to like, yeah, all sorts of fucking shit, which is just like probably way more of a head fuck to do that. We're not,
We don't want to be controversial. I'd hate his comment set up with drawing in polarizing opinions about climate change. Holy crap, that would depress me. Also, it makes you become such an asshole. I've definitely noticed it in myself over the last few years where I'm trying to defend positions because it is similar to like you were saying earlier about when you see comments. If you're in a room...
a person may try and form a counter argument to what you're saying in a conversational manner. But if you're online, you'll get like three to five words about what you've just said. Just stream of consciousness. That's pretty dumb or something like that, you know, and you're out there like trying to put your thoughts or feelings on the line. And yeah, then you get that kind of reception. You're like, I get it. Like they're just putting their five cents in and I shouldn't take it to heart. But at the same time, I want to try and involve people in the conversation because I wouldn't be bothered to talk about it.
if I didn't care a little bit about what people thought or rather wanting to have that conversation. In the scenario where you're the speaker and you have an audience of people that can interact with you, there's almost like a competitive element to get your thought out
before it gets like pushed away from chat yeah so there's like a speed element you don't have time it's like you have your 10 seconds now yeah yeah form your argument and give me context as to why you're about to say your gaming is dumb instead they've only got time to say your gaming is done without in my opinion just based on what you're doing right now no disrespect or anything but i think you might be playing dumb yeah they don't have time to type all that out yeah yeah no for sure for sure and i totally get that i do and so i try to bear that in mind it's just yeah
Like you said about Hasan, like, yeah, like when you're talking about such complex and such impactful things, you know, something that hasn't impacted on a lot of people's lives, like, yeah, it must be incredibly, you're being vulnerable, aren't you? Yeah. Which is the hard thing to do. But yeah, we don't really bait that kind of discussion.
some of it's just bad gameplay and oh you're doing it wrong or why haven't you updated your skill point's still there it's just like yeah who gives a fuck why can't you see that on screen those type of things yeah just aren't important no not really that's fine but when you hear them a thousand times it's like a death by a thousand lashes yeah it's just annoying more than anything it's just like you chose you also chose to watch it you don't have to watch
Yeah. That's the other thing. It's like, if someone is that annoyed to, you know, rant, rant, rant, it's like, we don't have to, do you? Any competitive game where you're in there and you're angry. Oh, yeah. It's like, you didn't have to play this game, but you're angry, but you get invested. It's fair enough. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I think that it's really good to have, like, the ability to say to someone, like, take
take a breath you know like step back for a second you know yeah without like because for sure like certain games like there's certain games on there like gta hell divers does it to me as well like well it gets you really irritable really quickly because you like care so much about like what you're trying to achieve the game is successful in getting you involved in it yeah exactly you you get so invested and then when things go wrong you're just like for fuck's sake you know and you're like
whoa, take a fucking breath. And then someone like gives you some shit and then you're in that heightened state of irritation. Yeah, yeah. And you're going to rile them up with your comments. And you just feel that poison pulsing through you, you know, like you really do. It is really annoying. Like I feel very annoyed with myself when I get into those, like when I'm in that state of mind, you know, it's a very hard thing to unravel.
Part of me feels it's unfair sometimes how much control we have over the audience as well. Like, we get to just mute, ban, and remove whatever we want.
So it's like, ultimately, I have the final say. Like, my opinion is the most important thing. I can just mute you. And I feel like, in a way, that that's not very democratic sometimes. If they're right and I'm wrong, I'm just going to silence you. It depends if you're having a back and forth conversation. Or if someone's literally just being obtuse just to do that. Or maybe they're saying something...
oddly offensive but they thought they were joking or you can't really get tone across through text I find which is quite hard sometimes because yeah sometimes somebody will say something really off colour it's like whoa what did they just say like you don't you know they're probably just trying to banter in the same way and so it's a bit difficult sometimes like we don't know who you are it's like when people do that in real life they don't know you that's quite weird
jumping in with jokes like that have taken years of trust and like general knowing someone to get to that point you can't just like leapfrog in it's weird and it's also oh god yeah and then there's the read the room element of it where like they do stuff like that and it's really like i don't want to be mean to people like i don't actually like being mean i like i like
taking people under my wing. I like trying to understand people who are strange. I think it's interesting and nice. But when people misinterpret things like that and they like step over the line of familiarity, let's say, with a joke like that or a statement like that, you want to like, your immediate response is like,
what the fuck and you want to kind of say like maybe don't do this you know like as in like you want to be gentle you want to be gentle it just makes it so awkward but yeah yeah and it's like dude life lesson moment here or person whoever whoever's done it um life lesson you know like don't do this kind of thing you know like as in if you think it's a good idea it might not be and i don't want to put people off like making jokes about our content it's all good don't worry about it it's not not going to end your life or mortify when it's in person yeah but like the end but there's no moment to then have the interaction to be like hey just a heads up like
Usually it's in a queue when you've got like 10 seconds. So it's just really hard, really hard to like help modulate those kind of things, I suppose. Someone said to me the other day. What? I was in a queue. I went to a theatre with a mate, which is a rare thing to do anyway. Is it like that hexagonal one where everyone's in their own booth? Oh. No? Isn't that like a jerk-off theatre in the middle of Amsterdam? Yeah, you didn't go to that one? No, no. Okay. Just making sure. And someone was behind us and they're like, oh, no.
from Hatfield I was a massive fan I was like oh yeah like nice to meet you were you at Hippodrome or Beacon this was in Bath oh okay so yeah so do you still do it I was like well yeah it was the weird preface of I'm a massive fan it's like well obviously not do you still do it and I was like well somehow yes but yeah but then like they caught me in the intermission and wanted a photo but like it's just very odd it was just like
Why would you preface that? Like, you're not... Yeah, it's very strange. But I guess they were once. He's a massive fan. Used to be. Used to be. Used to be. Long time ago. And it's just like, understandably, you don't watch this now. I'm an adult. It's just a very weird thing to say afterwards. Yeah. A lot of people are caught. Caught off guard as well. And nervous. Sometimes...
Again, we're not trying to be assholes. We're not trying to be assholes here. But objectively, that's quite funny for someone to go, I'm your biggest fan. It was quite funny. Just the contrast. Yeah, he's like, oh, okay. Well, obviously not the biggest. Then I guess... Yeah, well, fuck off, mate. Maybe watch a video, yeah? Sorry, I only talk to members.
just are you a member are you a card carrying member just show me your phone just real quick yeah I'm not a member not even subscribed anymore oh no no so you're a Yogscast member sorry not interested yeah yeah different vibe it's not us we're Hat Films
yeah remember of hack gaming mostly though I will say 99% of interactions with people are perfectly great yeah and don't feel nervous about saying it was a funny thing to think of I've been jumped on that was probably the worst time that was weird that was in the train station that was like
They ran. I think they know me too well. From a distance. So much so that you can jump on me and shout my name in a train station. That was weird. Like trying to get a piggyback off me. Is there anyone you've ever watched you would ever do that to? Boris Johnson, but I might not let him. Well, you'd run and jump on him. Yeah. Like a backpack. Jump on him. Then I'd make sure he stayed down. Do a little koala bear hug. Uh,
no, uh, that is bizarre. That person should have, I mean, I think nowadays we're older and wiser. We'd probably be able to call that out. But I think at the time we were still like, the other thing is like our online, our online personas are so much more different to our like day to day interactions with people.
oh yeah we are still all the time yeah we are still so like fucking amped up during like gaming streams and the things we say and the pace at which we're doing it it's literally like 20 year old us so everybody's still like jumping around like 20 years and in real life when we're still like you know when we're in our mid 30s i don't want to do that yeah it's like please don't jump me dude my back will go we'll be replacing ourselves with air well eventually i hope so it's so far ahead
You won't even notice. You shouldn't do. Then I can replace it in my normal life as well and just sit nowhere. Well, you could just sit with your headset on and obviously live the real reality. Yeah. I'd just watch myself. Inside. My AI version. Your own AI. Like living my life in third person. All right. How can we round this one off then?
We've managed to do 45 minutes, by the way. Oh, that's impressive. Yeah. I didn't feel that at all. There was another person here who was selling bottled farts. Sick. Singapore influencer who staged an egg attack. Well, she basically hired someone to throw eggs at her while she was on a live stream. You know, just a classic kind of like, oh, look, someone's actually throwing eggs at me. Like, whatever. But it turns out they also sell their farts for $300. Wow.
It's quite frightening. Do you think you could sell your farts? I feel like we could sell Smith's farts. We would smell a fart. Smithy's farts. Have a sniff of Smithy. Have a sniff of Smithy. Have a sniff of Smith.
I think that's like a kink, right? Yeah, it would be a kink. But for Smith, it would be like, I have disposable income and I'm not good with my money. I'm going to buy this because it's hilarious. You're saying that there's no possible way you can conceive. There's no kink. I can't believe how much you desexualized me. Okay, well, I think you desexualized your own farts. Name someone that you'd want to smell their fart. No one. Literally no one. No one, because it's strange to smell people's farts. Well, yeah, it is strange. Imagine spending $300 on a jar of someone's fart.
Kind of gross, man. It's kind of weird. I think it's scary how much some people are willing to do for money. And also just like, also how effective they are as well. You know, like some people are incredibly... Is there more judgment on her or the person buying it?
I think everyone loses. But like, I think that it's quite scary how money-driven and how willing people... Like, I get needing a decent income to...
survive in you know modern England like you know you need a lot of money to do well that's an easy manufacturing process as well you just get a load of jars build up a good so you'd start a fart factory Britain's first fart factory just gotta be good at cutting off to make sure there's not too much in one bottle like I mean even like you know cork it quick how much money would you be having well I mean that's a hard question 300 pounds a jar of farts I would be selling the shit out of those yeah you would do it I'd degrade myself for that you would do but the things we did we sold his hair once
My pubes. I think it was actually just from your head. Sprinkled some pubes in. Some pubes were in there as well. Oh, were they? We did. He caught a little bit and then he put a few in there. So it was like five. I sprinkled it. I mean, like... But this is always set up. We're doing it so short. We're not, like, designing, like, specifically thinking and developing business strategies. But if someone said in the chat now, they're like, oh, look, I will pay over a thousand. We sold a Droldo for a thousand pounds. Yeah, and again, it was like, someone out there is going to be like,
Fucking hat films. Look at them doing this. I'm going to be the other part of this joke and pay the thousand pounds. And it's like, yeah. Do you think people who would buy the farts, not necessarily our audience, but people who are selling farts already successfully...
Do you think that those people receiving them are like what you would say like model citizens? Do you think that they're just regular people that happen to like them? Do you think that the kind of audience and the kind of relationship that these kind of relationships I think you'd be surprised. No, based off of
they're just some dirty pervert in this scenario yeah i feel like anyone buying them from us would be buying it as an ironic joke yeah the person who bought the jordan must have done it as a as a stupid kind of like that's funny they like the stupid thing i'm not gonna actually practically use this drill i put it on the shelf um yeah it'd be funny it'd be a funny thing to pull out right look what i got just like oh i've got a little kind of a couple of literally a hand hair follicles a silicon arm on it um
But if there was money to be made, what if we made like cock molds of each of us and then we sold them just on it and just you can always buy them. You can always buy just a Smithy, Smith dildo. Smildo. Well, because it's small. Smildo. That is already a market though. It's like an actual market. Or Smithy Stiffy. Smithy Stiffy. I'm sorry. Well, we haven't even thought about marketing yet. I've only just... Trots Todger. Yeah. Yeah.
But do you think people would buy them as a funny... Because you could buy the set, you could buy all three of them. And they interlock, because they're perfectly sized. They're like Russian dolls. And they can interlock. You have to decide who you think is going to be... Well, they're going to be unnamed. They'll be unnamed, yeah. Perudo cups. You'll get the Hat Films three. Stackable. It'll always be a set of three. We could have the horn, Ross Hornby's horn. Ross Hornby's horn. The horn of Hornby. You can blow into that one.
It makes a noise. It makes a noise. Real blowable action. They've all got a gimmick. Ross's is blowable. Yeah. Mine you can open car doors with. It's so rigid. Like, it's a pry bar inside. You're just covered in latex. Wow. Mine's made entirely of cum. Wow. Ross's is freeze-dried jism. Don't get it wet. Oh, my God. It's scented. That'd be pretty gross. Wash with hot water only. Yeah.
well that's a great way to finish yeah so that's a product that we could release but we won't or will we I am slightly concerned the impact that this person selling $300 farts may be having I think they only sold one which if anything is statutory
That's just our main carrier. Carry on. Oh. Hiya. Hiya. I think we're still on. Carry on. Anyway. I think she just sold one. So, yeah. Very strange. If there's a market for it. Use that camera there, apparently. I think this one's a bit blurry.
But anyway, that's a great way to finish. And so are our three limited edition sex toys. A great way to finish. Thank you very much to our Patreons, to our Twitch subs and our YouTube members for supporting this podcast. It exists because you give us some money. We hope you enjoy it. Let us know if there's anything you'd like us to talk about in the next one with our email, hatchat at hat-films.com.
And, you know, thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. See you in the next one. Goodbye, everybody. Bye. And thanks, Robert Clark, for this finger. Thanks, Robert. Hey, do you like role-playing games? Well, you should check out Mystery Quest. It's an actual play podcast where we focus on all kinds of indie TTRPGs with a rolling cast of special guests. You can find us anywhere where you get your podcasts. I'll see you there.