Say Goodbye to our Mushy Human Brains!
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oh yes very nice very peaceful thank you and welcome to the hat chat podcast episode 169 nice 69 yeah 169 yeah with your hosts my voice is ai i am chris trott

Hi, I'm Ross Hornby, not AI. Hi, I'm Alex Smith, otherwise known as AS, which isn't artificial intelligence. It's artificial sadness. Your initials were AI and you get confused with AI. I thought AS was animal sex. No, it's not that. No, it's artificial. It's not anal sex then? No, well, it could be that. Did you guys see the Apple intelligence reveal?

I did not actually watch it, no, but I know that you were dumbfounded. Is that the word? No. You were bespectacled. You were impressed with what they had to offer. Shocked. No, we knew it was coming, right? The big AI monster. Yeah, the big AI monster is ever looming, and Apple have decided to make their own. What are you looking at?

I see a dangling XLR cable. I'm just checking your microphone's plugged in. No, we did tests before. I know. It's just, you know, we didn't have all the right gear. You're right. I remember doing that, but then my eyes. I need to trust my eyes. We've got a loose cable. Can you hear him? But yeah, Apple Intelligence is their own version of AI, which is running on-device.

it's going to use your silicon yeah what exactly is the danger that because obviously musk started crying like a big crying piss baby um yeah musk um we're not allowed this he's gonna ban any iphone that has apple intelligence okay and why from his establishment because he says that it's a breach of privacy uh having chat gpt integrated in uh to the core operating system and that

based on me seeing the WWDC conference, is just an outright lie. Oh.

That's absolutely not. He didn't listen. Elon Musk's reached a point in his life slash career where he's no longer capable of outputting remarkable things. So instead, he has gone into neg mode where he negs remarkable things. Not saying that this is particularly remarkable, but it does smack of that reaction of just like people are excited about this and this is why they're wrong. You know, like highly effective.

clearly because there's politicians Do you think he's the one tweeting? Do you think he's actually tweeting? Yeah. Do you think he just hired someone to be like a rage tweet? I think he's ragey enough. Because some of it just seems so like

arbitrary I feel like he's got enough ego to think that it's just like why are you paying attention to this right now like what is going on in your busy business life that you have to tweet about honestly I don't think he's that busy I think he's just surrounded himself with really smart people and he knows how to work them there's gotta be a lot of calls and a lot of mundane meetings yeah but it'd be like calls where people are trying to get stuff done and they have to appease him it's like okay go it's like fine whatever it's like what's his face in Shogun the leader

He did a really nice speech, which I'm going to do it. Shogun the video game? No, the Disney original Shogun. Really good. It was FX, I think they made it. But it went on to Disney, didn't it? Disney Plus, if you want to watch it. Yeah, distributed by Disney Plus.

But he said about... Toronaga. To be smarter is to get... He was talking about a falcon. Some falcons just fly off and catch prey and other ones just get lazy. And the trick is to make other birds fight for you instead of fighting yourself. I think Musk is a falcon. That's what I've been doing with you two. A lazy falcon. But you fight each other. I watch.

That's why you've been calling me Falcon so much. Okay, this guy. Falcon. He said that thing about you. He did what? He said what? He's just good at manipulating people. The thing is, it takes a really great... It takes a truly...

incredibly unique and great person to survive something like becoming a billionaire or to becoming powerful. I'm not saying that Elon Musk is a victim. He's just been found wanting. He's not a saviour? No, he's not a hero. I think that if you give some people power to the same degree that he has, they can be truly monumentally great people. And that's why people like him get held up.

like as like the you know like the oh they're so great they're so great because people presume that like that's what they must become perhaps to try and encourage them to become that because they are becoming so powerful I don't know well they've won the capitalist game haven't they that's ultimately what everyone's driven towards but they've still fallen prey like beyond all of that basically what it is money and success is just power and it's about the test of you the test of the individual how well they wield that power and he's just another example of like a person that just

quite have it. You know, like the paths aligned. I think people are always like they must be the

well, they're not always like this, but often it's like the, oh, they must be solely responsible for their success. And it's like, no, a lot of times things can fall. You know, like if your parents happen to own an Emerald mine, like that can help you get into business. Open some doors. Well, yeah, it may get you taught in the best schools. It may give you capital to try ideas out. It may be taught in the best schools, surrounded by the best people to get you into better positions. Yeah, exactly. Because those people are connected. Yeah, yeah. It's all connected. Yeah, so you blow. So you blow.

yeah it's who you blow and then you get up to the top and then you're like do I choose to be blown or do I choose to be something better you have to get blown and I think it's obvious which one he's chosen you can yeah that's how to be truly great but you know that's a secret path a personal path secret path

You've unlocked a combo path. He's a hybrid. Yeah. Yeah. Musk doesn't like competition, I think, ultimately, because Grok is basically chat GBT with a layer on top. So it's still open AI. It's still open AI.

is everything opening up no so this is the distinction that must got wrong with apple intelligence and i'm not advocating for apple intelligence in any way i'm just assuming they came out last week i'm chatting about um but basically apple intelligence is their own thing that they've designed for their apple silicon

And it runs on device where possible. And when it can't fulfill your request, it goes to new servers that they've made, Apple Silicon servers, where they've made the architecture for that as

as well. And allegedly the whole time they had the little Apple logo with the lock symbol on it saying your privacy is first. And we made the whole thing from the ground up with privacy in mind. So your data is only ever used. How are they going to pay for those additional Silicon servers now? I don't know because they're just integrating it into Siri and all that. So there's no subscription service. There will be. Do you reckon there will be? Oh yeah, they're going to add it part to Apple. Aren't they like a trillion dollar company? Yeah. Well,

They're not going to go... Oh, yeah. Does Apple seem like the kind of company to do something like that? Is there anything they've done ever? To get you on board to get all your data from AI. Oh, yeah. Initially, yeah. Like the first year or like when you bought the first buy your phone. But then eventually this is costs. So they're going to probably take it out of, you know, like Apple One subscription. I imagine they'll build it into that. They might well do, yeah. But where ChatGPT comes in is if there are then requests for the global web

where it requires more complicated large language model requests, like make a spreadsheet for me and do this formula and all that shit that Apple Silicon, Apple Intelligence can't do. That's where you can choose to send your request off to ChatGPT. Yeah, yeah. So you have to press yes, and then ChatGPT takes over, takes your data, and then...

Siri fulfills the request. Yeah. So that it's basically, it's not going to just integrate chat GPT, it's going to also integrate Gemini and like Google's one. I think, I guess I don't want to give Elon Musk any, any slack at all, but like, uh,

I suppose realistically users are going to end up turning that on a lot because like you are on you, you're going to end up just keeping that on. So essentially really users are going to get so used to using, why would you use it? Cause I tried to use Siri earlier to do a very simple task that I just couldn't figure out. I was a very boomer moment on an iPad. I had to sign a document and like,

then the keyboard wouldn't pop up and it was one of those things where I was like, Siri, show keyboard and it didn't do it and then it showed me a fucking webpage where you could buy keyboards and I was just like, Siri, it's the most frustrating thing I've ever used in my life. Show me keyboards. I fucking hate Siri so much. That's the only thing I want. I never want to use it. I just hate that. I cannot believe a company like that could make some so shit. It is awful. It is really bad. What's funny as well is that like this is literally, it's from the era when back in the day when voice, voice, um, like, uh,

what they called voice assistants were first becoming a thing. And the voice input of show me keyboards was enough to them to be like, hey Siri, show me seat keyboards as if anyone shops like that. Everyone just goes keyboards. But we've learned to talk to it in a very dumb, basic, simple way. Where now with ChatGBT you can be like, oh, show me a range of your keyboard selections and it'll start showing you all this stuff. Give me the best keyboards of 2024. What's incredible about ChatGBT is it actually understands you properly. It's scary.

experimented with it on my little holiday I was playing Divinity Originals in the board game there's a lot of outlying rules which are like how does that work I

I just opened up the chat GPT thing and just had a conversation with it. I was like, look at this photo of these symbols on this dice. Like, what does that add up to? They're like, okay, based on the divinity, I think it's this. And I'm like, yeah, sweet. So what is this? You took a photo of it? Yeah. And it was like, it was like these icons on these three dice equate to that. And then also it was like, yeah, based on the rule set, this takes precedence over that. And it's like, fuck.

Fucking brilliant. Well, my friend did a thing. A few weeks ago, he took pictures of all of us and asked Chachi, we need to guess our ages. And it got them all exactly right.

Wow. Amazing. So that was quite interesting to just send a photo of yourself and be like, what age is this person? I wonder if that's based on them finding data associated with that. They could do a reverse image search, perhaps. They go to Facebook or something and then find a famous workday. It responds so quickly that it's just like, yeah, it's impressive if that's how they've done it. The way they work is...

Very, very clever. Extremely clever. And I just hope it's not used and it will be used for various means. If you don't use it for war, what are you using it for? What's it good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again. Well, that's actually not true. What? War.

What's it good for? The technological advancement is powered by war, which is really unfortunate. I'm not saying that's the way it needs to be, but that's kind of the way it has been. Jet GPT wasn't made from war. No, that's true. But that's not the only technological advancement. A lot of engineering advancements were made through war budgets. Like bouncing bombs. Not saying that's how it used to be. Like bouncing bombs. Spinning bouncing bombs for the dam busters. Yeah, but they didn't then go on to create other technologies. I mean, GPS was developed by the US military.

So like, and then given like with a free lease. What about space travel? That developed Velcro. Yeah, space travel came out of like pretty much the Cold War. Like the US, Russia. The space race. Fight for the moon.

right um but yeah let's fight for the moon uh and again i'm not saying that's the way it needs to be i'm not one of these people like war has always been around or as will be you want progress you need war i don't think that's true at all just speeds up the tech that's the way we've done it so far yeah so like uh just just now you've got dji just pumping those drones out so dji might be getting banned in like the us and europe like like they may be um because of their war effort

Basically because everyone I mean this is me talking, you know, you know, you know how I feel about drone lover the geopolitical situation with China You sleep with the drone, don't you? Yeah, basically I mean I have it hover over me at night and track my movements and I wake up in the morning I'm watching also the fans are really cool. Yeah, I just have to sleep with it. It's very loud battery though. That's a real killer. It's a 21 minute battery But yeah

But yeah, no, they could be getting banned. It's complicated. They're banning them not through the normal ways as well. They're like regulating them out of existence, essentially. And also part of the problem is like, essentially, whenever you use a DJI drone, the Chinese government will be able to tell where you are. And I know that that's like, you know, the classic argument, which is a strong argument of like, you are in a sea of millions of users. And it's like Sauron's eye.

Sauron's eye doesn't see everything and like unless like it's almost like the I mean it holds about as much water as nothing to hide nothing to fear in my opinion but I do understand the perspective but it's like that thing in Dark Knight when he uses everyone's phones to just track the city but that's already happening which is pretty cool it is already happening I mean it's that could be used as a weapon quite comfortably that was the whole dilemma in the film wasn't it and he had to destroy it he's like this is so immoral psh

technology you just destroyed except for we don't have a Batman that says that and can make that decision of course exactly we have a neon mask but yeah like it's yeah yeah that would suck because they pretty much make the best there's nothing out there there's nothing that competes with them

like it but then maybe it's a good wake up call for Boeing should get into it yeah they should I mean sky droppers why not I mean it's not a fucking bad idea you know Boeing pivoted hard much smaller quadcopters as well without civilians less death from also you know all you people who have been here for like 35 years and have got like

decades of experience building complex giant airliners yeah well we've got some 19 year olds in here who are going to swag together some quadcopters better than you will want to come down your time is done yeah I mean god yeah what are your thoughts on AI just being in your iPhone I think that because it's going to be I think I said this I said this in the start

It's the railroad. It's coming through whether you like it or not. It will have positive and negative changes. We need to obviously pay as much attention to those changes as possible and hope that our governments who haven't done anything in the last 15 years do something about something. So I'm not hopeful, but I mean, when I hear these cool things that it's able to do and like, like,

I mean, it's kind of cool. I mean, you, bizarrely, my favorite use of it so far is you telling me about those rules and that board game. I mean, that's an example of where it would help me from day to day because you always, when you're in board game settings or like D&D settings or whatever, which I find myself in quite a lot, you always need somebody who like knows all the rules and understands not just the rules, but the context of the rules. The context.

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context and yeah yeah and it got that context and for me it's just like wow that's going to unlock so much more fun more fun gameplay because i know that i've always got something that i can quickly go i'm thinking about doing this would that make sense and it'll be able to go yes like

That's awesome. I also did. It comes with cards, right? So you have your character and you've got weapons and shit. I was like, I've got these three skills and I'm thinking of picking up these two. Which one's better? And they're like, I think based on blah, blah, blah. Right. So now you're using it to cheat in board games. John goes to a casino. He goes, yeah, I took a photo of a casino layout and I said, which card should I hit or stick? I got a good card.

And then I integrated it into my sunglasses that I've got cameras in them. And I said, hey, Matt, what hand should I, should I hit or stick on this? Yeah, hit or stick. Quick. And then we got escorted out of the casino. And now whenever we all go to casino, we've got to leave our guns, our phones, our smartwatches, rings, and the implants in the back of our eyes.

in a box. Our dumb human brains are the ones that get manipulated instead. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Until all of our technological helpers. Mushy brains only. Yeah, sorry, we want idiots in here. Leave your godlike tech at home. Yeah, hilarious. I watched a really interesting video. I can't remember his name. It's a real shame. Should have shouted him out. He does a lot of like tech videos. Captain Interesting. I think it's like Joe Scott or something like that. Joe Interesting. Not Tom Scott.

Someone else. He's American. Either way, he did predictions for 2100 and how they're always so out of whack. Out of whack, yeah. But he really tried to do the research based on decades of seeing where things go and extrapolating from that. Apparently...

Obviously AR VR is going to just keep getting better to the point where full immersion is going to become a thing. Okay. Because there's going to be a time where you look back and like you're holding your phone and all your information was in this rather than it just being omnipresent all the time. That could be a thing. And also just

extrapolating from that, being able to read people better. So, for example, imagine knowing the actual emotions of someone when you're looking at them, rather than trying to discern what's going on. And you don't know the shoes. You don't walk in other people's shoes. You don't know what they're going through. What if you genuinely did know what they were going through? Because you could just...

telepathically know how they feel. The thing about that, so first of all, ARVR, just very quickly, I want to talk about that. So in the last week, two major companies, Apple and Meta, have both said that they're scaling back their ARVR divisions again. They've both said that they're knocking stuff back.

The Apple Vision Pro was a disaster of a launch. It's cost way too much. Apple are now looking at a meta Quest 2 style solution. They're doing a cheap meta themselves, even though the meta Quest 3 is a great product. Really, really well received. Price wise, not too bad. It's still not being widely adopted because of the same reasons that everyone says. You try your VR headset for the first few weeks. You're blown away by it. You do a bunch of stuff on it until eventually it creeps over to that shelf.

and like very very few users are using the platform like they would a PC or as frequently as a PC it's not convenient yet so what I think personally is happening I mean I think you're right about the whole you can see how AR VR technology is going to get smaller but I think what's happening is much like when the HTC Vive first launched like

15 years ago, whatever it is now. No, not 15 years ago. Eight years ago, I'm going to guess. I'm going to guess about eight years ago. Like, it went back to sleep for a bit, right? We had the HTC Vive come out, that first one. We're like, oh, wow, VR's crazy. And we all did that head chopping sim and that sort of stuff. And then for quite a few years, it went away. And then the MetaQuest 2 came out and I think everyone was like, oh, shit, like, this is it. This is...

This is cheap enough for everyone to access. It's light enough. It's pretty good. Inside-out tracking, you know, things like that. Ping-pong felt real. Ping-pong felt real. But I do still think we're nowhere near how small it needs to be and how convenient it needs to be. Yeah, it's still gimmicky. So I think that it's going to go back to sleep again for a bit. Until the technology catches on. Yeah, yeah. If chips get smaller and obviously they've got ways to cool it down and battery technology and all that stuff needs to be just literally even more compact to the point that, yeah, it's literally just like putting on...

I think we're going to be like, you know how I was telling you about that material recently that's taking over from night vision, or that it's a meta material. This is not meta. The company's a meta material. That's basically, um, able to do a lot of what regular night vision does in a much thinner layer. Um, essentially right now, um,

Night vision is quite long tubes because of the various stages of processing the light has to go through to be seen, or the image has to go through to be seen, whilst a new material is bringing it down to potentially being integrated into like glasses and things like that. It could also pick up infrared spectrum, so it could also be thermal. So things like that are an example of, I think, true leaps forward. The problem right now with VR is it still uses quite complex lens systems, not complex, but quite bulky lens systems because...

you're trying to look at a screen that's incredibly close to your face. So you need lenses that are able to focus something that close to your eyes. I think that we're going to have to move away from that because I'm not sure how much smaller that can get. I think I did preface this wrongly by using the word AR, VR. I think it's more immersive tech rather than that. I think the alternative to all of this is obviously the...

body interface stuff. Yeah. Like Neuralink. Yeah. And I don't think that's going to be widely adopted at all. I feel, yeah. But... Not this method of it. Not this method of it. The results. Imagine a non-invasive version that can interface with your brain without surgery. Yeah. Like a hat. Yeah. And then that hat could like literally trigger optical nerve hallucinations. All I picture is one of those fucking crazy like zany hats from like this...

where they have those spikes coming from them and electronics. Yeah, yeah. People going around it. I feel like we'd need a new field of physics to achieve this though, right? Because we already have... You can interface with the brain with a hat though. With using waves, is it? I had it done when I was...

Young. It measures brain waves, doesn't it? Just electrical currents moving through your head. Yeah, it's just stickers on your head, and it just measures those currents. It just needs to detect that. But how can you send the currents back in to create stimuli? Surely there's an app for that now. Yeah, that's the... You can't just put your phone next to it now. It's just turn on vibrate mode, yeah. And what was the second thing you said about in that list? So AR, VR, and then he said he was predicting other things. Oh, there's loads of stuff. There's a second point you brought up.

With regards to this. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, Neuralink probably won't happen. But the other point is wearing a hat is what I was going to say. No, no, I mean when you first listed the stuff this guy predicted. Can you remember the second thing you said? Well, there's loads of things that he talked about, like climate and geopolitics and is capitalism going to end and all that stuff. And they seem to be heading towards a late capitalist society. And I think they might be running out of steam soon.

in terms of it just not being sustainable anymore, with there being a load of imbalance societal-wise and there being the potential of an uprising of sorts or unionizing and that sort of thing to get rid of the disparity of wealth and all that. Capitalism doesn't work. So there might be like a post-capitalist or refined capitalist society in the future, maybe. Again, really unpredictable. The other thing is AI could change all of these predictions because...

you know, like fusion technology, that sort of thing. Yeah. Could be cracked by humans. Like it's, it's happening and it's likely like some radical, uh, energy surplus will happen at some point. But if AI gets involved and makes technological neurological leaps that we couldn't previously do with human, um, processing, but AI is like, yeah, this is how the DNA works and all that shit. And this is the perfect formula for that. Um, that could speed up all of this or, uh,

you know, super intelligence that wipes us all out. Do you think AI can take the microplastics out of our penis and balls? I hope so. Because they did. Well, it is helping medicine. They did tests recently, didn't they? Which were the ball thing. Yeah. But then they did tests on the penis. Okay. What are the results? There were five guys who had...

Erectile dysfunction. The burgo place. Four of them had microplastics in their penis. And that was causing them erectile dysfunction, you think? Well, they think that might be one of the causes, yeah. Fucking hell. So where is it? So it's going through into our tissue. So it's in amongst our cells? Yeah, must be. That's fucking nuts. Thin skin tissue, supposedly. So this is like the shit version of Wolverine.

Yeah, well, I mean, it's what? It's dying the shit out of you. Yeah, microplastics are everywhere. And obviously, like, you know, I guess even we brush our teeth with plastic brushes and bristles. That's all going straight into your gums and then into your bloodstream. That's a fucking good point. I'm going to go back to horse hair.

One, you should use mochi hair. Or porcupine hair. Just clump that up and see what that's like. That's all just going to be too much fluff. Too fluffy. Using cotton wool, isn't it? Yeah, you can make ear buds with those. We should go trim some horse hairs from police horses. Just rip off a few pubes. Butt crack hair. Butt crack hair. Too curly and it's going to go between. No, trim it short. My butt crack hair is softer than my pubic hair.

So I'd rather use my pubic hair. There's a transitional point where it becomes like, ugh, dry like a coarse dead bush. That's the stuff you want. That's the good, that's pay dart. And then it goes into nice velvety smooth butt hair. Well, don't pick the velvety, the velvety stuff's for cotton buds. Okay. Maybe for moisturising. Maybe for, yeah, taking the dirt of the day off at the end of the day. Some people have had hair replacements with like pubic hair. Yeah. But on the head. Can you tell? And it's like,

Then it looks a bit wirier than it would do. Why is the front of your head really curly now? It's a bit more wiry than it used to be. What?

What did you change? Oh, I had a hair... Hair and plump, but it's... It's from my pubic hair. It's all black and curly. I've got no pubes. Yeah. Upside. Curly is from the front. My penis looks massive because I'm completely bald down there. Downside, my forehead is really curly and the rest of my hair is really straight. All this hair used to surround my dick. For ages. For a long time. This stuff used to get so stinky. It is weathered. Yeah, I guess, yeah, you know, in...

2,100. Who knows how much... It's such a big leap. Much of it will be microplastics inside our bodies and clogging up our arteries. We didn't realise. With COVID, for example, and the technology... What? Don't say that word. Sorry. He will not be named. The disease that spread wildly. Formerly known as COVID. Formerly known as COVID. COVID-19! What about... What was the term for it before? Pandemic. No, the C... SARS-CoV-2. No, it's the name of a beer...

Corona. Coronavirus. The coronavirus. It's a coronavirus. Yeah. So, yeah, try telling that to everyone. There were so many names for it. Everyone got so confused. It's like the corona is a shape of the virus, I think. Of course. It's a variant of. But yeah, the labs that created the vaccine used technology to develop the perfect vaccine for it that would work rapidly. Yeah. AI...

Made that faster. Nice. Imagine that for like figure out something that breaks down microplastics in our bodies. Yeah, I know. I don't know why that's not what we're currently... Why aren't we using it for that? I think we probably are. And I think it's probably going, I don't know. Would you like a poem that doesn't rhyme very well? Yes, please. Yeah.

It's not something that consumers or general populace can integrate or play with. I don't fully understand the capabilities and limitations of AI in its current form, to be honest with you. From my experience of chat GBZ4, I understand a bit about what that can do. I can also understand it's just nothing like a human being. It's multi... It can't do rhymes. It can't do rhyming couplets still.

No, no. I think it's based on the fact that it can do parallel processing at an extremely high level. So the time it would usually take a variety of scientists at the top of their game to figure out a formula, the parallel computing of a large language model could do that in a billionth of the time. So it's the bandwidth, essentially. Bandwidth. Right, right, right.

It's the processing. And they can give you all these multitude of options as an output. And is that only because of the processing power that's dedicated to it or because of its design? Yeah, both. It has to pull that data and use it, so that's probably a fuck ton of energy harnessing that. There's software as well now to figure out whether someone's used AI for using it in essays and stuff like that.

Because I think teachers have complained about how the fact that they're just coming across very similar looking essays because people are just using it for those tools. It's going to get harder and harder to detect. Yeah, it's going to be like anti-AO tools. Isn't that a worrying thing for the future generation if that becomes a norm to just, it's just you're not using your brain. You're not using your brain. Yeah.

You could argue that. And also, you could also argue, I hope there's technology that just gives you knowledge as well. In a way. Or like the old matrix kind of like, give me Kung Fu powers. This is the other thing about immersive technology. And the pursuit of doing other things. That would be pretty good. Don't necessarily require like specific kinds of study. Because like art and music creation still requires study, right? True. And by study, I mean like,

over and over again, doing it over and over again. Yeah. Like that would allow more time for that kind of study. Perhaps like the things that AI can do is something that we shouldn't be doing. Make that too. Because I think there are uniquely, there are uniquely great things about being a human being. And oftentimes that isn't spending 38 hours a week in a library studying for engineering exams. Like I know that's like, I mean, some people may want to get into engineering and I think that you'll have a lot of like AI

if AI becomes as massive as we seemingly are being told it will, we'll have a lot of AI adjacent jobs, like be it like computer scientists, mathematicians, be it building the hardware, maintaining the power infrastructure, working out the societal implications, legislation. There's still going to be a huge amount of human stuff that needs to be done.

But the stuff that we're making AI do that we're taking jobs away from people from, do we even want people to do those jobs? Would we rather just... Because ultimately it's all about resource allocation and the way that we allocate resources to our individuals is by you have to pay for it. And then that keeps them working shitty jobs. So if you take away the need for shitty jobs and you give them some resources...

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God, that was perfect. That was better than I could do.

I've played this game a lot. It's published by Yordscoss Games. It's made by a single man. It's honestly a labor of love. So I love Bellatro. I really, really like Dungeons & Degenerate Gamblers. And give it a go. Yes, absolutely. If you love card games, if you love digital online, if you like Bellatro, you can check out Dungeons & Degenerate Gamblers. It's out now on Steam. And as a special offer for our Pickaxe listeners, you can pick up a copy of the game for an unbeatable price at fanatical.com.

slash pickaxe. No way. Thank you very much. On with the show. In my mind, you cut out the misery and you create potential. And then you can just get loads of future gen hipsters who are like people using typewriters now. Yeah. Yeah, I still use a typewriter. Shing!

Yeah. It's like the off-grid. Oh, okay. Well, I just talk to my computer, so fuck you. Yeah, I mean, it's a rejection of society you live in as well. Like, I just don't want to subscribe to having an iPhone which has everything on it. Yeah. I'll have a typewriter, thanks. And I think, like, you know... I only listen to it in vinyl. People say, like, oh, look at the youngest generation. They're so fucked. Like, you hear that a lot. I hear that a lot. I've got friends who are lecturers and teachers and things like that. And some of them say that. I'm not making it out of the fucking cost of living. Well, possibly. And the housing. But, I mean, also, like, that's not... It's...

It's almost like, well, if you're commenting on that, if you're saying like, look what they're like, they're fucked or look at this, look at that. Like, why aren't you trying to...

do something about it. I think everyone just expects someone else to deal with it. Yeah. It's like, well, how about you just be, try and be a great leader. If you think, if you think you have that perspective, if you see this is fucked, that is fucked, like, try and, try and, try and change things. I mean, I am, I am like, you know, speaking from a position where I get to tell people what I think a lot and a lot of people don't have anyone who cares to listen, which is, I guess, really fucking frustrating. But yeah, like,

They are pretty fucked, but that's because we're doing things like...

This is why you get bitter. Letting elf bars completely fill the fucking country. And like we're giving people no ability to buy houses. We are making public services progressively worse. Like nobody's actually doing anything to the people that are stealing all the money that we used over COVID. Nothing's happened to the woman and the chancellor that literally made 50 billion pounds disappear. Like nothing happened.

if you're so angry at Gen Z go out and fucking be angry at the people that are making Gen Z the way they are like people aren't researching those things well maybe not research it's not research you're just fucking living in it you are living in it like fuck me it's lazy people aren't looking this stuff up and they're like wow my granddad voted conservative so that's why I vote conservative and that's it yeah

And that's the unfortunate limitation. I understand that. And I'm doing my fucking best to not have to live in, adjacently to that world or in that world. I think the, you know, Gen Z are seeing that as well. Yeah, exactly. And voting in the correct ways to try and make a change. But there's only so much you can do when you're at the bottom. Yeah.

Yeah. And also I'm not saying like other people should pull the bootstrap when I say that I'm just saying like, I understand some of the futility and some of the frustration and all you seem to be able to do is like, shit, I need to make sure that I don't have to compete in this fucking nightmare. Cause, um, yeah, I, I,

But, you know, I feel for the people that, you know, Gen Zers or kids or whatever. Let them have their avocado. Yeah. And coffees. Yeah, because it's the only reward you're ever going to be able to afford. That line of thinking just builds resentment.

disparity between generations which is not helpful like you say and it's just it just breeds infighting and makes all of the working and middle class like of which like 99.9% of people are in by the way yeah there's a weird mentality just tear each other apart there's a weird mentality of like well they shouldn't have an easier time than I did no exactly which I find so bizarre like stupid that's what progress is yeah like if you've seen the stuff about the student loans in America where they wipe them out whatever

And then people got, like, outraged by it. They were like, oh, well, I had to pay money. It's like, we ever, like, you know, there's a generation now who've got a little bit of a leg up to help, you know, maybe actually afford some of the more expensive things in life. That's like saying... It just seems so crazy. That's like saying, I just fought in World War II and it fucking sucks that we finished the war. I feel like we should carry on the war so the kids can fucking keep fighting. You get out there and you can at least experience it and be as bitter as me.

yeah that's a very good way of putting it and I think also if you ask the people that fought in World War 2 the few of them that remain they wouldn't say that they'd be like I'm glad people get to live a life of peace because like fuck would I want people to go through that but yeah what I always find odd is like

national pride doesn't somehow get tied into the idea of like progression and making things better for other people in your country very often right at least in england at least in england but also in the us as well like you know like like the thing that really gets me down is i really want to be proud of the uk and there are just so many fucking idiots in our government that are just everything that's wrong with you know the english largely um and

It just sucks. And I don't know why people can't conflate pride and helping each other in your country to become better. It just... Oh, man. Big redo? Not a big redo, no. I think we're going to get a big redo in the biggest change. The Conservatives are not going to have such a... It was before World War II that Conservatives were this small.

They've never been this non of a part, like this unpartied. What's worrying is it's not necessarily happening in the US. I still don't believe that Donald Trump won the next election. I've bet Josh 50 quid that he won't. So I'm really, that's riding on that pretty badly. But I don't think Donald Trump will win the US election, but I would like to see more of the signs that we're getting in the UK here, which is where like fucking, I don't, not necessarily a huge fan of Keir Starmer, the Labour Party, but like it's the current Labour Party, but it, it, it,

it seems like everything's turning red, right? The whole country is going to be Labour or near enough, right? All the Conservatives are going away. It'd be great if that was also happening in the US. Do you know what I'm worried about though? What? We're going to have this big red tide come through this election, but...

People like Nigel Farage are playing for 2029 elections. Yeah, possibly. And all they have to do is say, look how much Labour failed in this last election. Possibly. That's my worry. It's like Labour's going to have a very short run. Yeah. It does seem quite naive to think that you can just fix everything really quickly, though. Oh, yeah. They're going to fucking go hard on news and all that shit. Yeah, they always will. But, like, yeah.

Much like Obama got from the previous government. I don't understand that. How many people are in America? How many people live in America? At least more than three. Or 300 million? More than three. The two fucking people that are running for president are like these old doddery... Yeah. What is that? That's insane. Ross Ornby's What Is That? That is just insane to me. What's that about? It's like, obviously, Biden, poor guy's not well. No. And Donald Trump's a criminal and...

downright arsehole in general. Sociopathic narcissist. You can't find two other better people in 300 million to run your country. The Democrats fucked up. They should have started grooming somebody else earlier. The reason they ran Biden is because they need an old white guy to appeal to old white guy voters that Trump might swing. That's why they calculated it. If he wasn't up against Trump, they would appoint somebody else. It's just very sad to see, isn't it? It's very weird.

It's shit. Very dystopic. It's very dystopic is what it feels like. Change comes with generational die-off. And you've just got to hope these old bastards die soon, you know? They keep holding on. It makes you wonder, it's like, wow, these guys are surviving somehow. There's some hope for us. They might have less microplastics than us, though. Maybe. They've had worse diets and smoking and all that, but we've got microplastics, so...

Fuck. Well, people are getting cancer younger and stuff, so it's not good. Okay. So...

Well, there are. That's one thing. But then is that because technology is finding it faster and better and quicker? I don't know if it's just my aged brain or my fear of death has finally knocked the walls down, but I'm starting to believe in some form of afterlife. Well, that's big. That's because the aliens, though. It is. Because there are aliens. What do you think? And they're here with us in the room. Do you think that we've got to share consciousness? I don't think that reality is all it seems.

That's all. I think that once upon a time, I thought that I was just like any other. I mean, but the earth, we're all just animals. And we all just live and die and rot back into the earth. And that maintains the natural cycles of the world. And eventually we'll all be candles. But I think consciousness is separate to that now, I think. That's pretty Sikh-ish.

Is it? That's pretty Sikh of you. I think you'd be a good Sikh. Yeah? Yeah. They got some dope bits to their religion, Sikh. One of my concierges in my building is Sikh, and he has his jewelry. You know how they have the bits of their... I can't remember what it's called, but you know when you sometimes have a cross as a Christian, like one? Like a ceremonial knife. Yeah, there's a ceremonial knife and all that sort of stuff. Pretty fucking cool if you ask me.

They believe in a single god, but they also believe that everyone's interpretation of a god is basically the same thing. So they're all just experiencing it in their own ways, and Sikhs just believe, yeah, that's fair enough. It's all the same thing. I guess we can all just make up our own gods. It doesn't really matter. You can just make up something that you like, and then just stick with it. I'm not a fan of organized religion. Knock on doors and just start getting people involved with your religion.

I don't have a religion. It's not a religion. Ceremony of life does sound cool, though. You've got to look at all the trinkets you can get with your religion. Yeah, exactly. If you're going to do one of the big ones, which one has the best trinkets? So you get a sword with one of them. Yeah. Also, you've got to look at benefits. Like the LDS guys, you know, the Mormons, their corpo capital religion seems to be very good for the old bank balance. They seem to be successful people in general. Ceremony of mace?

Ceremonial Mace. I don't know. Who does that one? I don't know. We can make one up. You want to do our own? We can go door to door and be like, well, you get a Ceremonial Mace. Holy fuck. What was I watching in the day? Oh my God. What was it we were watching? Oh, I wish I could tell you what it was because there's this...

Oh, there was this, what the fuck was I watching? Because there was this show about like, right, okay. Basically, why I'm excited to tell you this is the end result is, imagine an old guy that goes around, oh, that was it. Oh God, right. This is gonna, the things I watch. I was watching an Al Jazeera documentary about, yeah,

Oh, it's called Praying for the Apocalypse. Right. Really, really good. Two-parter. It's called Praying for the Apocalypse. And it's about a fundamentalist movement in the US where the idea is that like we cannot be saved until Jesus returns. But Jesus is a warrior. Wait, what?

Jesus is a warrior and Jesus, Jesus wants, he's going to come back as a warrior. All these, all these fucking nutcases. Anyway, long story short, there's this old dude going around America. They follow him for a bit on a big motorbike with his motorcycle mates and they turn up at random places. Like they stop at like a petrol station. They're just like, we're going to do a prayer here. We're going to do a sermon. And they're like, Jesus Christ. And like all these people are like gassing up their things. And these guys were gathered around. But then he's like, I'm trying to build a, um, I'm trying to build, uh,

like a military unit for Jesus. And he's like basically trying to, he buys these really shitty swords.

And he's trying to create these knights, these like knights for Jesus. And he knights people who join his little club. And the sword looks like something out of World of Warcraft. So it's got like these horrible like off the shelf like shitty designs, like way over decorated. And he buys like six of them and they probably all cost so much money. And then these random dudes that have become these weird ceremonies he's been giving, he's like, I knight you. And then he gives them their sword.

Fucking hell. He started his own religion. Well, he started his own religion. It's some weird pro-

Because there's also a load of like, in some Bibles, some versions... What's the apocalypse got to do with that? Oh God, there's so much, man. I can only take in so much nutcase energy. I thought you were going to say something about preppers, where I reckon they probably hope that there's going to be some sort of event, just so they can prove themselves right. Yeah, but all the fucking preppers, all the preppers building their bunkers, storing all this water, and then they're the ones that are like, COVID isn't real. And you're like... You've been prepping for this. Come on, why are you shunning it? The apocalypse is going

I thought it was about the 80-year cycle that people believe in. Oh, right. Where society gets to a certain point and then it collapses and then it's rebuilt. And there's some people that are trying to speed that up. Right. Saying it's all futile and we just have to wait for capitalism or whatever to kill itself. Yeah.

and everyone's just going to go into a stupor and then everything will come out of the ashes. I might be one of those people. No, no, that's a stupid... That's a dumb take, but I do believe in what Karl Marx said about cycles of societies. So essentially like how...

everything always goes in circles. I think the one he talked about was going from like socialism to capitalism maybe. And the idea that like, you can start with distributing all of the resources to all of the people, but what will happen eventually is individuals may have like an advantage. Like let's say for example, they find on their land a load of gold

and they start digging that gold out of the ground and suddenly they get an advantage and other situations like that rise up and then that's when you sort of are moving away from socialism and you start to create like market leaders or people who have like the ability to make more money than others and like that's when it slowly morphs into another thing and then eventually when those people become too powerful when monopolies exist all of the many people at the bottom have been crushed down by the big things making all the money then revolt and

those things spread the wealth back out again and we're back round to the start of where we were and Karl Marx I think is largely right with that I think but I don't think society needs to collapse for that to happen I think you can just have reformation yeah I think that's what happened with the industrial revolution yeah the monopolies were starting to happen and then the workers revolted and then new laws and legislations came in it wasn't a total yeah well I mean you also have like the union movement and things like that I'm not read enough about it

they use AI for like modelling the future of humanity yeah you could do like it's own little real time strategy where it just basically puts in all the data that it's currently got to this point where we are now and goes well what if we do this this and this and then it shows you what the fuck happens that is also feeding a super intelligence so if it's everything there's so many films well yeah but like I mean

I could handle this for you. Let me be the leader of humanity. Because RTS is half the time you're like, oh, well, you have to save Skum or Skum save. And it's like, well, you can't do that in real life. So if we could do a model of it. RPG or real-time strategy. Like where you're, yeah. Save Skumming. Yeah. Like if you made one wrong choice and all your people are suddenly dying or, you know, you've not gone off war in a certain area or whatever. Oh. You then go back a few saves and you're like, oh, fuck. So like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

If there are AI models like that, that'd be quite interesting. Yeah, for sure. Also, there's really interesting ethical and sociological questions of how much do you allow it to dictate your future? Because obviously there's going to be red herrings and bad things to do. So if an AI model just misses something,

There's a bunch of really great films about these concepts, aren't there? It gets a little thing wrong. You didn't think about aliens. They came in this year. What? It didn't think about ethical reasons. Don't ask why, but we need to wipe the Norwegians out. Oh, wait, this air model removed all ethics. That sounds like a South Park plotline. The military is just like, we've got this perfect AI, it's going to create a utopia, but every single time it just says, wipe out Norway. Just...

And we don't know why. Norway seems fine. So what are we going to do then? Well, we're going to wipe out Norway. It's all shit. It turns out that the person that put the prompt in to generate this just did a typo. So this is... There's no way. I think one of you may have already watched it. The creator, the film, the creator. Have you seen it? Like, really not bad film. Like, it falls very slightly short, but... But doesn't it get to the point where, like, is it biological...

AI robots combining, which is a bit... Yeah, a bit shit. But the setup is great. It's a very nice looking film. The idea was that they gave a lot of their society over to AI to run it for them. And then one day there was a nuclear disaster. The AI nuked a big city, like a 9-11 basically, right? And basically the US and like the Western nations were...

like say outlaw it that it's like never again we need to destroy all AI it betrayed us blah blah blah and like this isn't a spoiler for the whole film but like essentially it comes in it's just like well hold on it wasn't even the AI it was it was programmed by humans and it was probably a mistake that the humans put into the AI that caused that it's not the AI itself and they're like

we're too deep into this now and we've killed it and also like it's honestly great film you should really watch it i may it's by um the same it's the same visuals as uh rogue one so like the visual style is fucking incredible then all the robots like a precursor to dune as well yeah yeah yeah it's basically uh district nine meets district nine meets rogue one cool like honestly it's a great film uh the creator i can't believe it went under my radar but yeah it examines this uh

Very interesting. Very interesting future ahead of us, at least, as long as we all survive. But it's okay, because the aliens have disabled all the nuclear weapons. Do you think, just to round this off nicely, that when millennials die, we're going to become cocoon husks of microplastic hollow men? Yeah, they're going to find, like...

It's a global pom-pain. What were these species made from? Some form of plastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like those mummies that have been doing the rounds. The bones of the marrow is all plastic. This guy had a McDonald's thing just stuck on his chest. Rare. M branding. When McDonald's and medicine combined. Yeah. These are M plates. One of these. M religion. McMedical. McMedical.

Well, this is after you're doing your McVote. That's not, yeah. When we were talking about that, where you decide... McDonald's have a military and take over. I mean, it's not. Don't forget to McVote. They've got the money. They could pivot. We just have to revolt.

The general populace has to revolt against these mega corporations. Yeah, or the easier option, they all start listening to the elephant in the room and start changing the way they do things. Otherwise, they're going to get torn to pieces.

because they will they will they're all fucking terrified of it of how many there are of us and how few there are from them and if you just keep reminding them of that they'll act responsibly and not like fucking tyrants sure sure they will they will because money's going to become useless if they keep going the way they're going and that's the only thing they've got to keep the fucking wolves at bay I mean there's loads of cashless places now no one takes it true yeah

Fuck, well. Somebody looked very surprised. You still exchange currency. They were very surprised when I brought a £20 note. They looked flustered. Maybe your religion is those guys that sometimes hang out at a circus talking about the end of cash is nigh. Well, there are some who say it, and obviously, you know, I guess, yeah, then it's just everything can be tracked. But for us, it's very convenient. Why do you want it to not be tracked?

You could turn into a security state like China. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some might lean on the delete button and you've lost your money. I mean, let's be honest, we've all been using banks for many, many years. Yeah, exactly. If that falls apart, what instead these people don't have and what you need to rely on is the belief that we can keep society together.

Like, if you listen to some of those, I think I told you about this, I was watching a video about a Ukrainian who decided to stay in their town as the Russians invaded and came through. They weren't fighting. The fighting came through. They were just living there. The Russians came through to liberate them. But what happened was the Russians came through, fucked the place up, fought the Ukrainians, and then they all had to move through and keep fighting anyway. They, like, pushed past them. So they were just sort of in this weird no-man's land. And the guy was like, don't underestimate how quickly society can just fall apart.

He's like, we went from something to nothing in a week. Like, you know, and like he's saying that I'm talking like full on just tribal, like Ukrainian, like town that had been invaded and left in the rush. Yeah. By the Russians last year. Oh yeah. Cause it was like, they were building like mass graves already. Yeah. But like completely decimated. It's,

But people like, yeah, what we need to do is believe in society. Same for the whole bunker thing. You know, when they were saying about like that security expert was briefing a load of billionaires on how they could maintain security if the end of the world came. And he's like, you can't. You need to build societies. You need to have interdependencies. That's the only way humanity survives. Rely on others, not defend them from them. And one of these hatchets will come up with a plan. So you'll have to join us for that one. A 10-step plan. It's going to be really cheap too. Can we just buy a few thousand acres in Scotland to start? Sure.

And a lot of fence. Right, so we'll get the ceremonial maces. That'll get people in through the door. That'll be like the gift bag. The maces and the pawns will be the mace swingers. People love to follow a good cult leader. We'll call the masons. Yeah, well, I think that's where you take them. We'll figure this out, guys, and then we'll let you know when we start. Mace pen.

Mace men? Huh? The mace men. Mace men. Is it a single sex? No, I think that would just be the people who hold the mace, the mace men. Regardless of gender, they'll just be called mace men. Yeah, yeah. It can be mace mon.

Wow, like a Pokemon. Mace-a-mon. Mace-a-mon. Mace-a-mon! It's a noble position. And your goal is to become a mace. Yeah. Honey, I'm just a mace-a-mon. If I work hard for the next six years... You're putting Zorbs attached to catapults. You

You get inside and get swung around. It's going to be weird, but I think it will be the future of society. Yeah, that's weird. Stay tuned. We'll have to ask AI. We will, if that will work out. But anyway, thanks for listening. Cheers. Big thanks to the people that support this podcast in a variety of ways, like our Patreon.com slash HatFilms. You get early access

to the podcast don't you you certainly do it gets uploaded to our patreon a little bit earlier very marginally earlier but it's a little bit earlier it's a little bit also there's no ads which I've heard is sometimes a bit of a scourge on the free version sorry about that but also you could also take part on our discord that's free discord.gg slash hat films where the really cool people hang out that are eventually going to be your peers

In the mace They will become Our maceman army Maceman army The masonry The masonry We can have mace windows Yeah Yeah nice Mace windows Mace windows Open that mace window Why are we adding mace To the front of the word window I don't know What about mace like Spraying in the ice mace as well We'll have underground macements Nice Macements There's so many ideas National holiday Where everyone goes mace jumping Yeah

Mace jumping, I love it. That's where you jump over a mace. It's like a mayday pole. You put bells on and jump over the mace on the floor. By the way, just quickly before we go, one other thing I thought of, and it's just a real short moment, I promise. Yeah, sure. So you're talking about how AI can predict the future.

The TV show Devs with Nick Offerman literally used it to predict the past. Another really interesting show worth watching. To see the past, wasn't it? Yeah. This is so good. Well, they were using AI to imagine it, but so accurately with so many data points that they were sure it actually happened like that. That's a really fucking good point. It's a really clever idea. That's a great idea. Yeah. And it executed very well. Yeah. So Devs. Devs, the creator. And the creator. Yeah, yeah. Any other TV or film recommendations here? What about that?

reality show you've watched recently. Milf Manor. It does drag a bit. I'm on the phenomenal episode now. Milf Manor is where the sons and the mothers go into one manor in the first season and the dudes are trying to

They're all in like what? So some older ladies, some hot older ladies, some MILFs ranging between, you know, mid 40s to early 60s. They go to a luxurious like manor house. Well, it's not a manor house. It's like a fucking villa in like Greece or something. That's the first season. And then all of a sudden these hot young men come in and they're like,

wow, we're looking, we'll be up for dating some hot young men in their like 20s to mid 20s, basically. But it turns out that all of these men are the sons of each of the MILFs. Yeah. And they'll be watching each other date. Yeah. Each other's sons. So that's fun. But then the second season, what happens is, same set up.

But halfway through the show, the son's father's come in and try and date the MILFs as well. And as you can imagine, that's incredibly emasculating and problematic. Oh my God. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. The son's father's come in to date the women? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they add extra women in. And then some of the... Anyway...

And they just keep piling on and all the women are terrifying as well. And all the men, all the young men, especially are fucking idiots. And then, and so they're just like the young, the older women are just like eating these young men alive. These young men are like, Hmm, I'm such a badass. And it's just like, dude, you're getting traumatized right now. You don't realize it. And anyway, um,

I'm a big fan much, you know, going back to my old takes of Karl Marx. I'm also a big fan of Sigmund Freud, who's the old take on psychiatry as well. But I do think largely rings true. So I'm just watching all of this, just getting all this confirmation bias. And I'm just like, it's not incestuous. They're not trying to bang their own mum. No, they're not trying to bang her. That's disgusting, Ross. Other people in their peers. It's disgusting. Get on Pornhub if you want that kind of thing, you pervert. I'm watching science. That's not what MILF Man is about. It's...

more just really weird it seems like a trauma simulator it really is yeah really is yeah anyway but they're all on board so that's why I like watching it they signed the contract that's all that matters who cares what happens afterwards DILF manor might have more of a questionable take what old men and young girls yeah I feel like that societally would be rejected it would probably be called daddy manor

Maybe. Daddy men. I mean, DILF men, they stick on brand, to be fair. No, but you're right. I mean, well, not right. It's an interesting thing, isn't it? I think that would be the true test of how modern and progressive we got if they did do that one. And how would everyone take that? And then the dads see their daughters dating other men like them. And see how well the men would process that. And vice versa. I can't imagine particularly well. It'd be a lot of fights, I reckon.

It's probably already a fucking show, let's be honest. Maybe. Anyway, let us know if there is one and we'll see you next week. So we can watch it. Bye!

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It's time to enter a world of stories and adventure in High Rollers, a Dungeons & Dragons podcast set in a vibrant world of Althea, the Dragon Empire. I'm Chris Trott, one of the five friends being led through a journey of magic...

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