Build-A-Dragon
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Listener supported. WNYC Studios. Wait, you're listening? Okay. Alright. You're listening to Radiolab. Radiolab. From WNYC. See? Yeah. Three, two, one. Imagine you sprout massive wings.

And you grow a... Spiky, strong, slithery tail. You suddenly feel fearless. You breathe in. Burning heat begins to build. And as you breathe out, you are exhaling... Fire. You have become... A dragon. A dragon.

Okay, now is the part where I make you sing the theme song with me. Perfect. Terrestrials, terrestrials. We are not the worst, we are the best. You got it. Terrestrials.

Terrestrials is a show where we uncover the strangeness waiting right here on Earth. And no, dragons do not exist on Earth. But on January 29th, dragons will rise all over the planet. Dragons in the form of massive dragon bodies.

puppets that will dance through cities all over the world to celebrate Lunar New Year, which is just another way of marking the passage of a year based on the moon. And so today, in honor of Lunar New Year for a special Terrestrials episode, we wanted to dive deep on dragons.

to learn what they have to do with the dawning of a new year, why the dragon myth has arisen independently from so many cultures, and finally explore if there is any, any tiny chance that dragon-like beasts could have ever been real. I am your host, Lulu Miller, joined as always by my song bud, Hoo Hoo Hoo!

Ready to set it on fire. How's your breath, Alan? It's fiery. And joining us today to make sense of dragons is China's official keeper of the dragon dance tradition. My name is Lu Dajie. Mr. Lu Dajie. And is it fair to call him one of China's best dragon dancers? I think it's fair, but I will ask him. Yes. And this other friendly voice you're hearing is our Mandarin-speaking translator. Yes.

So over his lifetime, Mr. Lu has taught easily thousands of people how to do the dragon dance that ushers in a new year. Well, it's a full body workout, Lu Lu.

Now, if you've never seen a dragon dance, picture a crowd of people out in the streets gathering to celebrate the Lunar New Year. And then suddenly from down the street, a huge colorful beast rises above with a dragon head and a long body like a snake's.

Now beneath the dragon body are all these dancers who use long poles. Bamboo poles. To push the dragon up and down, up and down, as though it's flying. Through the clouds, up in the sky, down to the ground. And even breathing fire. Using fireworks. Beautiful.

or incense burning. So clever. And these dragons come in all sizes. Some of them are just a few people long. Some of them are over a full city block or sometimes over a mile long. Like 4,000 meters, something like that. Whoa. Wait, so were there like hundreds of people inside that one? Yes, yes. Wow, wow, wow. So cool.

Mr. Liu explained that in his tradition, the dragon holds the power of all the animals, of all of nature. And so going back to ancient times,

Farmers would pray to the dragon as a new year dawned because... They would bring you the right wind and the amount of rain, or maybe you were in the drought, and the dragon has those powers to give you a harvest, a good fortune. It's a creature that's about luck, about generosity.

It's actually pretty common. During the performance, some audience will try to sneak whiskers off the dragon or like touch the scale and rub it off on their children and just to get this, you know, sense of fortune. Wow, so take little pieces for good luck. Yeah, yeah, poor dragon.

Even though Mr. Liu is clear that the dragon of Chinese legend is just that, a legend, there is this eerie thing. It happens, you know, all across the world in different cultures. Hmm.

Dragons appear in artwork and myths from cultures all over the globe. European, African, Iranian, Central American, Nordic. And they sprang up in these legends before the world was really connected, before these different cultures had really met each other. Which makes me wonder, why would this strange, winged, fire-breathing, scaly beast arise spontaneously from so many different places?

Could it maybe mean that perhaps a dragon-like beast once existed for real? And that is why I have brought in my trusty producers slash investigators onto this case to solve this question. So, Anna. Hello. Alan. What's happening? You know I'm going away on maternity leave to take care of my new baby. I want you to solve two things for me while I'm gone. Okay. Okay. One is...

Is there any chance dragons were ever real? Ooh. Or was there some dragon-like beast that lived that could have inspired the myth? Yeah. And if not, could we build a dragon out of the things that evolution has already made? Like, do the elements of a dragon exist in nature? What elements? What traits are we talking about? Okay, I made you a list. I've made you a list. Ahem.

Your quest to build a dragon, if ye buds choose to accept it, requires you to complete six challenges. First challenge, your mashup creature needs the massive body of a huge reptile. Big body. Challenge two, impenetrable.

Scales. Sharp teeth. Wings! Wings!

Challenge five, the fiercest talons in all the land. Talons. And finally, challenge six, the most important dragon trait. I want you, my brave and noble buds, Anna and Alan, to find me a real creature that can breathe fire. Fire. That's going to be the tough one. It just doesn't seem like it would work.

Yeah, I would imagine that any creature that's breathing fire would burn its lips. If you can find me a creature that produces fire, I am going to be so excited. So do ye noble buds accept the challenge? Oh, yeah. Absolutely, I do. Okay, so you're going to do a bunch of research, build us the best dragon possible from things nature has already created. I'm going to go have a baby and we'll all be back.

after this short break. What if your baby is the one that breathes fire? It's that big. Nursing kind of hard. WNYC Studios is supported by Babbel. Are you holding back on foreign travel plans this year because you're afraid of the language gap? Well, no need to mind the gap if you have Babbel.

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Terrestrials is back and this is producer Bud Anna and song Bud Allen and we are on a dragon hut. That's right. While Lulu is off spending time with her new baby she tasked us with building a dragon out of parts of other animals. It's gonna

It's going to be hard, but we got to do it for Lulu. For Lulu. Woo. Okay, what do we need again? We need body scales, teeth, wings, talons, and fire. Woof. Pressure's on. All right, let's go build this dragon. All right, challenge number one, a huge reptilian body. When you called me earlier, I was playing with a 12-foot alligator.

Wait, did he just say he was playing with a 12-foot alligator? Yes, that's right. Do not try this at home, folks. Arthur here has been running boat tours through the Louisiana swamps tracking down alligators for the last 30 years. I got chased by a dragon, but got chased by quite a few alligators. Wait, really? Yep, which is terrifying because some alligators can weigh over 1,000 pounds. The big ones are going to grab you, hold on to you, and they call it a death roll, twist and rip off whatever it bites.

And he says the scariest thing of all about their bite is the pressure. Those jaws can squeeze with more than 2,000 pounds of force. Can you bend this bite down, Forrest? Arthur's son, Chad, says some alligators don't even have sharp teeth because their jaws are just so strong they could just smush their prey to death. Alligators don't chew. They swallow whole. Wait, that's incredible.

- Yeah, and their power doesn't just stop with their jaws. - Their tail's super strong and solid muscle going into the other. - They use their tails to whip other predators in defense and can cause serious injuries with their powerful swats. - Yikes! All right, I guess alligator wins for a huge, muscly reptilian body. - Oh, definitely. And I think I get bonus points here because alligators could also get us challenge number two.

impenetrable scales. So each of the bumps on their back, each bump is an individual piece of bone. So that's like body armor on their back. You could smack that with a cane knife and it wouldn't penetrate.

It's called an osteoderm. Osteo meaning bone and derm meaning skin. Wait, bone skin? Like they got bone skin? Basically. It's literal armor. And the easiest way to tell the difference between an alligator and a crocodile is one you're going to see later to the one you'll see after a while. You knew that, right? Well, moving right along to challenge three, we got to get teeth.

So allow me to introduce you to the Komodo dragon, the largest lizard in the world. It lurks in certain jungles in Indonesia and will flash you a deadly smile with its metal teeth. Metal teeth? Yeah. That cannot exist. Yeah, it exists. Their teeth have serrated edges that are covered in a layer of oil.

iron, which makes them super sharp, able to tear through pretty much any flesh. That is so metal. I mean, man, I'm picturing them with, like, grills. Yeah, I mean, their teeth do have a little bit of an orange shine from the iron coating. Wow, okay, so Komodo dragon definitely wins for teeth. Mm-hmm. And

I found out one more thing. You know how you were kind of all braggy about the osteoderms on alligators? Yeah. Well, alligator bellies are soft, making them vulnerable to attacks. Meanwhile, a Komodo dragon has a layer of tightly knit bony armor that covers their entire bodies, bellies included, in a reptilian chain mail that makes them pretty unslayable.

Pretty good. So we got a muscly alligator tail and body, Komodo dragon teeth and scales. What about challenge four, wings? Well, I thought maybe we could look to one of the very first creatures on Earth to ever experiment with flight. Ooh, okay. What is it? The dragonfly. Dragonflies are awesome. I

I know that voice. That's Terrestrial's bug correspondent, Dr. Sammy Ramsey. This is a very nerdy episode concept, and I am here for it. Sammy says what's so phenomenal about these fast-fluttering dragonfly wings...

is all four of them can move independently. Meaning they can fly backwards. They can hover. They can fly to the left, to the right, to the front, to the back without changing the orientation of their bodies. This stealthy flying gives dragonflies a kill rate of over 95%.

Even the fastest animal in the world, peregrine falcons, they only catch their prey 23% of the time. Okay, okay, that's very cool. Only one problem, my guy. What's that? You stick those itty bitty wings on an alligator body. Plop. Gator ain't going nowhere. Yeah, but don't worry, I got you.

Quetzalcoatlus, named after an Aztec feathered serpent god. This is paleontologist-in-training Ade Ben Salahuddin, who studies dinosaurs and other ancient creatures. Indeed. And he says the coolest wings ever to exist belong to the Quetzalcoatlus, a giant feathery pterodactyl with a wingspan of up to 40 feet long.

Whoa, that's like the size of a small plane. Yeah, it is. And it's one of the biggest known flying creatures that nature has ever created. Whoa, fierce. Uh-huh. But Ade says their bodies were a little...

Funny looking. Like a giant bat with the proportions of a giraffe. I love that. Now, don't be fooled by the whole gangly giraffe thing. Quetzalcoatluses are thought to have been very nimble flyers who could soar down and pluck up smaller dinosaurs and gobble them. Wow. Okay, so these are our wings. Yeah.

One little catch though. As big as Quetzalcoatlus were, they had really light hollow bones like birds which made them light enough to fly. So Ade brought up one more point which is that if our chunky Komodo gator dragon is going to fly,

it's gonna have to lose some weight. If we were to abide by the rules that nature, like animals, seem to go by, any non-flying limbs are going to be pretty skinny. Something long and thin, like a, I'm thinking flamingo type bird. You're saying give this guy flamingo legs? If we want a really big animal, we have to give up something. So I'm just imagining this like fearsome dragon breathing fire with these little things. Okay, so disappointing.

All right, what's next? I think we got to hurry up because Lulu's going to be back from maternity leave any minute. And we still need talons and fire. What if I told you we had a shot at getting both talons and fire in one creature? No way. What is a fire hawk? They would be very similar looking to a hawk.

Very sharp talons. This is Aboriginal artist and storyteller Natalie Davey from the Bunuba Dangumwe clan. So half of my family has been around Australia for probably over 60,000 years. Wow. It's a long time. Natalie inherited a lot of stories from her family about the long history of their land. One story is about a bird called a black kite or a firehawk that uses fire to hunt.

Which sounds scary, but in Natalie's family, the bird is kind of a hero. So we thank that hawk because that hawk brought fire to us. The story goes that a grumpy crocodile was hoarding all of the world's fire in his underwater lair. So the hawk asked the other animals to create a diversion.

and then dove to beak first down into the lair to grab the fire. Just full speed and was able to grab some of the fire and get back out of the water. In the story, the fire hawk flies through the air with the fire and shares it with all the land creatures.

And in reality, well, this blew my mind. It's basically the same. Wait, what? The fire hawk will dive down into forest fires, grab torches in its talons, and then use the fire to smoke out rodents and snakes hiding in the forest so it can eat them. Hmm.

grilled meat. Nice and toasty. It is very cool that it hunts with fire. Yes, indeed. And if you were to look up in the air, I mean, you would see this fierce winged creature with literal fire. Sounds pretty dragon-y to me. That bird is cool, but he is just kind of like horny.

the fire, right? Like, he's not producing the fire. I mean, I know what you're saying, but what if a fire-producing animal just doesn't exist? Oh, oh, wait. I mean, we haven't even talked about bombardier beetles yet. Oh, Dr. Sam,

Wait, what did you just say? Bombardier? Bombardier, like the military term for someone who drops bombs? Mm-hmm. And if you poke a bombardier beetle, well, let's just say it's not going to be the best experience for you. Just take it from famous scientist Charles Darwin. Here we go. Something that Charles Darwin noticed was that beetles are just everywhere. And he was trying to collect them all, like he was playing Pokemon or something. Ha ha ha.

Ooh, a ladybug. Ooh, a scarab beetle. And he made the mistake when trying to grab a different beetle that he saw, but he already had one in his hand. What's that beetle with the bright orange legs? He put the beetle in his mouth. Gotcha. Wait, what? I'll keep you safe in here. Like, I don't have a little jar, so I'll just pop it in my mouth? This is the perpetual difficulty of being an entomologist. There are over 380,000 beetles, and I only have two hands. Oh.

And so he put this bombardier beetle in his mouth so that he could grab another beetle. And the bombardier beetle did not take kindly to this experience and ended up rocketing, actually shooting rocket fuel out of its butt.

On to Charles Darwin's lips, scalding his lips and teaching him a valuable lesson. Well, that was a very nice little bugger. What do you mean rocket fuel? Oh, so you think I'm playing. When I say rocket fuel, I mean rocket fuel. It is scalding. It's really, really hot. Wow, so this beetle shoots a substance so hot, it can literally burn the flesh of any creature it touches. Just like a dragon might? Mm-hmm.

Let's take a break to consider that a bombardier beetle burned Charles Darwin's mouth with scalding liquid out of its mouth.

Okay, love this beetle, but how do you think Lulu is going to feel about our dragon shooting scalding fuel out of its butt instead of fire from its mouth? I still vote for the fire hawk's fire. Why do you think we have to choose? Can't we just have both? It is our dragon. It is our dragon. Sounds like we got this thing figured out. Let's go tell Lulu. Let's do it. Friends, this is the baby.

You brought the baby to the studio. That's Anna and Alan, they're buddies. You guys. Good. Pretty good. Did you find out some stuff? Oh, did we? Have we got a dragon for you? I am like authentically so excited. Okay, first I need to know, I need to know. Did you find any evidence that dragons or a dragon-like thing may have actually ever really existed? A real one? To the best of our knowledge, no.

No. Okay. Let me just grieve that real quick. But why? Okay, so why are all these different cultures that weren't connected coming up with the same myth? That is maybe even spookier. The baby agrees. Okay, so one of the reasons might be fossils.

Okay. So imagine you're an ancient person walking around and you come across the skull of an elephant. Right, or the wings of a pterodactyl. But you've never actually seen an elephant or a pterodactyl. And this is before the internet. You can't just Google, what is this bone? It looks like some creature you've never seen. And you're like, whoa. And your mind starts going wild. And maybe you invent a creature like a minotaur or a pegasus or a dragon to explain what you've seen. Oh.

And this is happening all over the world. So it's just like confusion, people's imaginations running wild. That's at least the answer we got from a couple different paleontologists. Got it. Makes sense. But it is sort of a bummer.

that dragons ever really existed. But in building our own dragon, we did a deep dive into all the creatures that have really existed. And honestly, they're even wilder than the dragons that human minds have dreamed up over all these years. So sit back, relax, and we'll tell you all about it. In song. Wait, seriously? Yeah, seriously. Oh, my God.

Like the metallic metal.

♪ Of a Komodo dragon ♪ ♪ She's also got Komodo scales, bony chain mail ♪ ♪ Super strong body armor, mega tough ♪ ♪ Nothing can harm her ♪ ♪ Yeah, she's got mad protection ♪ ♪ But she's also got a fight ♪ ♪ It's a P3 gator, body and tail ♪ ♪ To swing with all her might ♪ ♪ Body scales, teeth, wings, tail, yeah ♪ ♪ To get giant wings, we gotta go back in time ♪ ♪ It's a plane ♪ ♪ It's a giant reptile in the sky ♪

all of us with wings of Quetzalcoatlus this creature gives our dragon a fan roll like a dragon fly she can dart and dive she's got a flapping terror of body scales teeth wings talons if she's gonna fly we gotta lighten the load so slap on the scrawny legs of a pink flamingo but on those skinny legs she's got the fiercest claws oceans firehawks so she can haunt everyone

All right. All right. All right. But my buds, you still haven't talked about fire. A creature with fire is your burning desire. It is. Guess what? What? Well, you're in love. In her fire-hot talons, she carries the flames. She hunts with hot torches and sets forests ablaze. But if you want an extra spark, we won't keep you guessing. Like the Babadir beetle teaching Darwin a lesson.

You got a secret weapon and it breaks all the rules. A scorching caboose that shoots hot rocket fuel. That's right. Our dragon shoots burning hot liquid out of its butt. Our dragon shoots burning hot liquid out of its butt. What do you think, boss?

Whoa! Okay, wait. I need to recap because I was laughing through one part and I didn't hear it. But okay, so it's got an alligator body, feathery pterodactyl wings, metallic teeth and scales of the Komodo dragon, talons of the fire hawk holding flames, and it shoots hot fuel out of its beetle bum. That's it! That's nature's real dragon. I'm loving this thing. But if we're dealing in

It's not like breathing fire as we typically think out the mouth flames. Okay, so yeah, our paleontologist in training all day was also kind of disappointed in our booty rocket fuel. It's just a clear liquid that steams. It's got no pizzazz. Yeah, I mean, it's got no pizzazz. I pose an alternative. That is from birds. Yes. A baby fulmer is a seabird that barfs on its predators and coats them with stinky stink.

Ew! It's a fiery orange slime. Like, people who work with these birds on cliffs, they have to wear protective gear over their eyes because they aim at specific spots. Okay, that's a lot of pizzazz. Yes! Let's add it to our dragon. Oh, yeah! Now our dragon is a triple fire threat. She's the most slime-barfing, fuel-tooting, fire-throwing dragon there is. Woo! Woo!

Big round of applause. Thanks. Go you guys. Go evolution. Go beetles that spout jet fuel. Go metallic teeth. And that'll do it for today. Biggest thanks to Mr. Lou, our dragon dancer. And happy Lunar New Year to all of you who celebrate. And to those of you who've never gone out and seen it, I hope this year maybe you can get out into a crowd and see the dragons rise. Say thanks to the moon.

And finally, you know, all of us here at Terrestrials, we can't stop talking about and imagining what this dragon would look like. You know, the flamingo legs, pterodactyl wings, beetle bum, all that. And so we've decided to make a little contest.

We would love to see your drawings of this hybrid dragon. Our favorite dragon will get a very special Terrestrials poster. So you can email us your drawing. Just send it to... All right, my little baby, you want to help me do the credits?

Terrestrials was created by me, Lula Miller, with WNYC Studios. This episode was produced by Ana Gonzalez, Alan Kofinsky, Mira Burtwin-Tonick, Tanya Tala, Sarah Sandbach, Joe Plourd, and me. Fact-checking by Diane Kelly.

Yeah, we like her. Support for Terrestrials is provided by the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, the Calliopeia Foundation, and the John Templeton Foundation. Thank you. Special thanks to Dr. Sammy Ramsey, Ade Ben-Salahuddin, Natalie Davey, Arthur and Chad Matherne, Dr. Jorge Velez-Huarbe, Jae Jang, the folks at Roger Williams Park Zoo, and you for listening. Ah!

If you like our strange little show about the Earth and the creatures on it with the occasional singing, please rate and review us and share with your friends. It really does make a huge difference. Happy Lunar New Year one more time. See you in a couple spins and gurgles of this dragonless old planet of ours. Your baby says bye too.