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Twinkle, twinkle, little star. Explode, explode, big star. Black hole, white dwarf, supernova. Red star, blue star. Starlight on a piping plova.
Okay, I'll stop singing, but these are all things, real things that exist up there in the sky. I am Lulu Miller. This is the Radio Lab for Kids feed. And today we are going to learn all about them and what we are thinking of as a star fantasia. All kinds of facts and stories about stars. And it comes to us from another show, a kindred spirit show called The Big Fib. It is a podcast that puts kids in the driver's seat and adults in the hot seat together.
to explore what is fact and what is fiction in this wondrous universe. But there's a twist. It's a game show, and you as the listener get to listen along and guess, try to sort fibs from reality. And it's a fun time, an informative time, and we thought you might like it. So for a breath of fresh air, we are going to shine a little light, a little starlight on them today by playing you their episode, All About Stars.
And a reminder that if you like what you hear, go check out The Big Fib. Wherever you get podcasts, they've got tons of episodes about all kinds of things. So here we go.
The Big Thief!
Can you trust the answer? It's the Big Fib!
and the burned-out, unstable, collapsing core of lies. I'm your host, Debra Goldstein, and in the studio today is our sound effects robot, Lisa, whose name stands for Live In-Studio Audience. And I'm also a robot with answers to questions. Yes, but I didn't ask you any questions. No, no, you didn't. But my adoring fans have many questions for me.
And I have many answers for them. It's called human-robotic symbiotic syncopation.
And it is a beautiful thing. Indeed. All right, then. Do you have a question from a listener that you're going to answer? Oh, Deborah. I have here a question from Simon that I shall play for you through my Ogleport. Just a moment. Lisa, have you ever been on a vacation? If so, where?
Tell Deborah I say hi. And I say, oh, hi, Simon. Oh, sure. Be all friendly and sweet with Simon. When you know perfectly well you never give me any time off. What are you talking about, Lisa? You get all the vacation time you want. Oh, yeah? You didn't let me take today off. Well, that's because we're recording today. But when we're not recording, you can go on vacation whenever and wherever you want. Okay, awesome.
I am really glad you said that because after we're finished here today, I'm headed to the airport for a vacation to Dollywood in Nashville, Tennessee, so I can meet the one,
The only Dolly Parton. Wow, okay, well, that sounds great. You'll see the Smoky Mountains and go on rides in the amusement park, but I'm not sure you'll see Dolly. I don't think she's always there. Well, if Dolly Parton is also not allowed to take any vacations like me, she'll be there. Okay, we've clearly established that you do get to take vac...
Never mind. I hope you have a really great time on the vacation that you are totally allowed to take. Thank you. Okay, let's get back to the show, my friend. Lisa, please tell our listeners how our game works.
Okay, I will, because I want to, but not because you're making me. Okay, Debra? Fair. Every week, we bring on two grown-ups. One is an expert. The other is... What? I can't be reading this right. This doesn't sound accurate. A liar? And it's the job of a human child to help us figure out who is who.
Because no one can spot a liar better than a kid. I mean, we hope. We bought a billboard that said it, so it better be true. What are we lying about today, Deborah? We are lying about Starz, J.
giant balls of super hot gases in space. Lisa, what do you know about stars? I know a great deal about stars. Ooh, do tell. Well, they twinkle. Yes, that's true. What else? They're up above the world so high, like a diamond in the sky. Okay, you're just quoting the song Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star. But it's true, isn't it?
Stars are way up high and they twinkle like diamonds. Okay, yes, true. Okay, I'm sure we'll learn much more about them with our contestant today. So Lisa, please tell us about our contestant. Our human child contestant.
is an 11-year-old who has a bearded dragon, Finn Daly. Hi, Finn. Hello. Welcome. You have a bearded dragon? Yes, I do. He's right behind me. Where? I don't see. Oh, he's there. You can't see, listeners. But there is a bearded dragon right behind Finn. Are you safe, Finn? I'm fine.
I don't think so. I'm being held captive by him. Oh, that's just like what Debra's doing to me. And what is your bearded dragon's name? His name is Ferb, like from Phineas and Ferb. Ferb. Love that show. And does that make you Phineas? Yes, it does. You know, dragons love tacos. They do? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a whole book about it, Debra. I did not know that. Debra. Debra.
Deborah, it's called Dragons Love Tacos. Okay, I'm behind. I'll have to put that on my Kindle. All right, well, we want to know some more fun facts about you, Finn. But in order to do that, we're going to play our game, Two Truths and a Lie. You, Finn, sir, will tell us three facts. However...
Two of those facts will be true, and one of those facts will be a lie. Something tells me you're going to be very good at this. Tell us, Finn, your three facts. Okay, so my first fact is I have had my art exhibited in the Guggenheim Museum in New York. Whoa. My second one is I have met the Prime Minister of Great Britain. Oh. And my third one is
is I have been in a pilot seat of a Boeing 747 airplane. Wow, these are all fantastical. I can hardly believe any of them. What do you think, Lisa? Well, I know right away.
what the lie is. You do. Finn claimed that he's been in the pilot seat of a Boeing 747 airplane. And I know for a fact that the pilots on Boeing 747 use stools. They sit on stools the entire flight, except for when they have standing desks and they use the standing desks also.
So I know that that one is a lie. Nice try, Finn. You can just go tell that lie to your bearded dragon. Interesting. Okay, Finn, which one of those facts is a lie?
The fact that was a lie is that I have not met the Prime Minister of Great Britain. You are wrong, Lisa. You have not met the Prime Minister of Great Britain. But you have been in the pilot seat of a Boeing 747 airplane, correct? Yes, I have. Were you flying it? I don't know how that would go.
Probably not too well. Barry, cool that they let you do that. Yes? I just looked it up and it turned out I was wrong. The airplane pilots do use seats. I was thinking of people who hang out in coffee shops. They're the ones who sit in stools. And I was also thinking about like people who work in offices, they use standing desks. So that was the mistake. Sorry. Okay. I see. It's okay. But
Very important to go back and talk about the fact that you have had your art exhibited in the Guggenheim Museum. Tell us more, please. My school had a program where you'd make art and then like these little like stuffed plushies and whoever they like, they would take it.
And they would put it in a museum and set it up. Cool. And then you would go to the museum and then people would just come in and look at your art and I would, like, say stuff. So you were there with your stuffed thing? Yes. What was the thing? It was a couch. Oh. And then a little controller, like a little game controller. It was a couch like pilots use when they're flying 747. Ha ha ha.
Exactly. Congratulations on that. I hope we see more of your art and stuffed things in the future. Okay. What about stars? Do you know much about stars, Finn? He knows he's talking to two of them right now, Debra. Oh, my God. I don't think I know a ton, actually.
Except for some research. Okay. Research is good. That'd be it. Yep. That'd be it. That's all you need. You don't need to be the expert. You just have to figure out who the liar is. Who's fibbing. And I think you're going to be very good at this game. It's just a gut feeling I have. All right. Let's get the show on the road.
Lisa, can we get some music for our stars experts? Twinkle, twinkle, little star. Is the same tune as Baa Baa Black Sheep. That is true. I think you just exploded the minds of many people who maybe did not make that connection. Also, ABCD. What? It's a big deal.
Our first expert is Hugo Iverson. Hugo, please introduce yourself to Finn. Hi, Finn. My name is Hugo Iverson. I am a star nursery researcher and also an astronomer, and I'm really excited to be here. Wow.
Thank you very much, Hugo. Let's meet our second expert, Caprice Phillips. Caprice, please introduce yourself to Finn. Hi, Finn. My name is Caprice. I'm an astronomer, and so I actually study exoplanets, planets outside of the solar system. So I'm really excited to be here. Excellent. Thank you so much, Caprice. Let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see.
Tell us about your fusion of sounds, Lisa. This fusion is part hot...
Part seat and all hot seat time. That is accurate. That's when we put our experts on the hot seat while they answer Finn's questions. Lisa, whom shall we put on the hot seat first? Hugo Iverson, because his initials are H-I, which is how you spell hi. And I think that was a secret message to me. Hi. Hi. Very cute. I like it. Probably so. All right, Finn, ask Finn.
Hugo, your first question, and then after that, you will be able to fly your own airplane. Okay. Can you describe a typical day at your job? Sure. So every day is a little different, but I do a lot of work with my research team. So a lot of what we do, I work at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Sciences.
We look at different reports from telescopes around the world, and we're often going to look at telescopes ourselves. So I don't know if you're familiar with the different types of telescopes, but we have optical telescopes, radio telescopes, gyroscopes, all different types of telescopes that are able to help track the movements of different stars and planets.
And something you might not know is that the first radio telescope, which we use every day, was actually created by the FAA—I know you love planes—in the 1970s to help planes land at airports. Okay, so Caprice, can you also describe a typical day at your job? Yes, I can. So actually, like, when you think about—
astronomy, like you may think that like a typical day, you may be kind of just maybe sitting through and like looking through a telescope. It's kind of the images people see, but it actually kind of, I work a lot with computers. We have, we get a lot of data from telescopes. And so we need to have computer programs to be able to run and understand that data to produce images and different things like that. So it's kind of one of my job is to help build those programs, um,
and different things like that. And I'll also kind of look at images and like these things called spectra, which tells us about what's in the atmosphere of planets. So it's kind of like that. Like I spend quite a bit of time in front of my computer trying to understand programs and, uh,
Sometimes I do get to go to telescopes, but not all the time. But it's a lot of fun. It sounds like neither one of you actually is in space ever, which is a huge disappointment. Yeah. Yeah, I thought we were going to have, like, aliens. Maybe one day.
Hugo, how did you become an expert? Did you have to study or train for it? Oh boy, I definitely had to study and train for this. So I started by getting a college degree in physics, which meant that I was a huge nerd.
And after studying physics, I then got a master's in biostatistics from Caltech, which is a school out in California. And then I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but I knew I really loved space. And I actually thought about being an astronaut, but I knew it wasn't for me. But I did get a PhD in astrophysics.
And all in, it took me 10 years to get all these different degrees. And then I had to write a thesis, which is a big paper on something that you care about. And mine was about how star groupings or star nurseries, as we call them, can actually combine to create larger stars. And so what you often have is stars that kind of get almost like soulmates get pulled towards each other and then will exchange organic material with one another. ♪
Whoa. If I was going to write a thesis, it would be on pudding and why it's so good. On pudding? Like, why is butterscotch pudding so good? And then maybe I would do a sequel to the thesis called, yeah, because it's so good. Makes sense. Yeah, I'm going to college. Okay. I'm going to ask Caprice. Caprice.
What is the definition of a star?
Kind of like, you know, what's balloons and stuff. So that's kind of what it started. It's this big ball of gas that's mostly made of these elements, hydrogen and helium, essentially. So could you make your own sun if you had a bunch of helium balloons? Good question, Lisa. So unfortunately, no. That's a really cool idea you have, though.
But you need a lot of mass to create that type of thing. You need an energy source because the sun has its own. Suns and stars have their own energy source coming from the core of the star. So unfortunately, no, but I like where your mind was at. Thank you. I guess I'll just keep using the regular sun. What if I did a bunch of jumping jacks in the core? Would it heat it up? Oh.
Oh my gosh. You know what, Finn? After this, you and I are going to make our own son. I don't care what the experts say. Okay, Finn. Carry on. Okay, I think this one is a really good question. I'm going to ask Hugo. Why do stars twinkle? They're show-offs.
That is a really good question. Do you ever hang out outside when it's like super hot and you kind of see like that little like wave if you're like staring into the distance? That's how you kind of know like if you're looking at something hot, you kind of get that little like wave vision. So that's a small version of what's actually happening when stars twinkle.
So if you think about it, stars are super far away, right? And they have to pass through a lot of different layers of the atmosphere, right? If you look up, you have to go all the way out. And each one of those layers has a different temperature. And so as the temperatures change, our eyes adjust to it by seeing these waves, sort of like what you see when it's really hot, when some area that you can see is much hotter or cooler, right? And so stars...
look to us like they're twinkling because the light traveling all that distance is actually like, it looks like it's rippling, right? Because it's changing temperature so many times. Oh, yeah. And what's even cooler is, so if you think about stars, stars twinkle, but planets don't twinkle, right? Or we don't think they twinkle.
But actually, if you were to have certain types of telescopes, you would be able to see that even planets can twinkle like that. And it's only that we only have our naked eye to see that the stars do. But when the planets do, it's even cooler. And you should check it out through a telescope. Please, please don't have a naked eye. Cover your eye up, okay? It should have clothing. Oh my gosh. That's why I wear glasses. Okay. Right. Perfect. Yeah, smart.
I think I want to ask Caprice the same question. So Caprice, why do stars twinkle? So this is actually a really fun question. So stars, they're kind of these big balls of gas, just hydrogen and helium. You know, even the closest star to us is the sun. And so, you know, we're here on Earth and Earth has an atmosphere and there are lots of different layers of
to the atmosphere so you know you have a bite from the stars like the sun and different stars in the milky way and so it goes through and it's kind of bouncing through these like different layers and it's different temperatures and all that stuff and so it causes like the changing of the atmospheres and the different temperatures actually is what makes the star appear to be um
twinkling or like changing like um and the night sky is actually like very fun kind of a fun thing to see but that's kind of what happens we have the light and it's kind of bouncing through different layers in the atmosphere and it's different temperatures and that's kind of what causes that twinkle um of the stars very pretty oh that's oh my gosh it's getting difficult for you finn it is keep asking those questions hugo how do stars turn into supernovas
Here's what's basically happening when you have a supernova, right? Some sort of big chain reaction is taking place on the surface of a star. So a supernova can happen in a couple of different ways.
The most common one we think about, which will eventually happen to our sun, is when a star runs out of energy to burn off, and then it's going to explode. The supernova takes place, and then as we described before, it goes away, and that's the end of it. The other thing that could happen is when you have two stars that are fighting for the same materiality.
materials to burn, right? Because if every star wants to keep burning, then it's going to sometimes come into contact. And this is sort of what I studied, but it's they're going to try and burn up the same materials. They'll fight over those resources. And one star will actually absorb the other one. And that taking it in causes a huge explosion on the surface of the star. I heard it was when a star gets bitten by a radioactive nova. Yeah.
And then it turns into a supernova. Oh, yeah. Okay, you shouldn't believe everything you hear. But that would make a pretty good comic strip, probably. Caprice, why do stars have different colors? Stars actually have different colors based on their temperature. In astronomy, we kind of...
say like when we say the color of a star, we're actually referring to its temperature. So when something, when we think of something that's kind of really hot, we may think of like the color red, for example. But what's interesting is that red stars are actually some of the cooler, smaller stars. And so the stars that we see that are really hot and really big, they're actually blue or like kind of white looking color stars, like in the sky. It's kind of back
of what you would think and it gets a little tricky. Astronomy is kind of weird that way. But yeah, they're different colors because of the temperatures. Stars are weird and cool for sure. They are definitely weird and cool. I definitely need more info. So I'm going to ask Kika the same question. Oh, okay. Why do stars have different colors?
So stars, when they burn, they do release different energies, right? Depending on the temperature. So if it's a hotter star, it'll burn closer to a blue or a white light. If it's a colder star or a less hot star, it'll burn a red light or something lower. And what's happening is our eyes can only take in certain fields of vision. So
So what we're really doing is processing the temperature visually based on the limits of our own site. And now when stars have different colors, what they're really doing is emitting a certain amount of energy based on their mass or based on what reactions are going through them.
It's getting hard. Still weird, still cool. This is, I'm going to ask this for both Hugo and Caprice. What is the life cycle of a star? It's kind of a trick question because the life cycle of the star actually kind of depends on what kind of star it is. So our sun, for example, is actually an average size star. And so what's going to happen when the sun starts to run out of energy is
And it's going to expand in something called a red giant. And so what happens is after that, the outer layers of that red giant start to blow away into space in something called a planetary nebula that actually has nothing to do with planets.
It's just one of those tricky nicknames in astronomy. And so kind of after those layers kind of blow away from that planetary anemone, what's left at the center is something called a white dwarf. And it's kind of this object that has a lot of mass, is really massive, but it's about the size of Earth.
for example. So that's kind of what happens with an average-sized star. When you have a more massive star, like something that's way bigger than our sun, for example. So what happens then is that this one swells up too, but it gets so big that like, you know, gravity's trying to force it in and the pressure in the outside of the star is trying to force it out. And so
the pressure on the inside kind of wins and that's what happens when you have the supernova explosion it explodes it's too much going on and it explodes and after that it um what can be left out for supernova explosion it can be like something called a neutron star it can if it's big enough if the star region is big enough it actually turns into a black hole
And black holes are super cool. But it's actually kind of like the life cycle of the star kind of depends on how the star originally is. If it's an average-sized star, a smaller star, or a really big star. A really big star can kind of end in a black hole, where an average-sized star like our sun kind of ends in something called a white dwarf. So it's actually really cool. Wow. That's what I was going to say, too. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Do you have anything to add? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Do you have something to add, Hugo? I think most of that was pretty close to the truth.
It does depend on the different size of the star, but I think there might have been a confusion about how stars actually wind up
whether they're black holes or white dwarfs. It's not necessarily that bigger stars become black holes. It actually depends on the amount of energy and the speed of energy that is expended. So you can actually have quite small stars that turn into black holes and quite big stars that turn into white dwarfs. But it's not about the size. It's actually about how quick those last reactions take place. So that's the one thing I would fix.
Yeah, that was the one thing I was going to change. Is that a fact? Okay. Finn, those were excellent questions. Thank you. I could tell you were really thinking about every answer, but we have one more round to go. WNYC Studios is supported by Babbel. Are you holding back on foreign travel plans this year because you're afraid of the language gap? Well, no need to mind the gap if you have Babbel.
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It's time for the shorts on fire round when our experts have to answer as many questions as they can before time runs out. Lisa will set a timer for our first expert and then Finn will ask all the questions or as many questions as he can until Lisa's timer sounds. Then Lisa resets the timer for our next expert to do the same. Experts, get ready for a blitzar of questions.
Finn, let's start with Hugo. Ask your shorts on fire questions now. How old is the sun? Four and a half billion years. Which lives longer, big stars or small stars? The smaller a star is, the longer it usually lives.
When is Black in Astro week? The past. I don't know what that is. How many Earth-sized planets could you fit into the sun? Somewhere between probably like two and four million. But don't do it. Not yet anyway.
Oh, uh, lone planets. I think that's called a potable zone. Uh.
Most people agree that it's a star called Proxima Centauri, which is like 4.2 light years away. What is the name for an 11-pointed star polygon? I have no—pass. I don't know.
And that is time. That's all the time. Okay, listen, no more time. You're being greedy with time. Lisa, can you please reset your timer? Ah, do I ever get a break, Debra? Not today. Okay, I'll do it. Thank you. Okay, Finn, you are going to ask Caprice the shorts on fire questions.
Now. How fast is a speed-up light? It's over, like, 100,000 miles per hour. What is a star-shaped symbol we use in writing that stands for a footnote or when something is missing? I'm not sure. I want to say asterisk, but that's kind of my best guess at that. Fact or fib? Most stars are found in pairs or with groups of stars and not alone. Fact.
Those are constellations. So, trick question. A shooting star is actually a meteorite. A meteor, like, lighting up in the sky, like, going really fast and heating up. It's actually not a star.
What are the biggest stars in the universe? So, like I said, the sun is an average type star. So some of the biggest stars are actually about a thousand times larger than the sun. Star Wars or Star Trek? I'm going to say Star Wars. Hope I don't get dinged. And that is time. Okay. Okay. Wow. You both did well. I hope you agree that was NASA bad.
Ugh, NASA. That. Okay. I know, not so good either. Sorry. Okay. It is decision time. Finn must orbit around all the data he's collected and figure out which expert is a real gas bag. Finn, who is our big fibber?
I know both people gave me kind of the same answer. I know Caprice, I think, was right about the colors and right about the life cycle. Hugo was right about supernovas, I think, at least. I think Hugo contradicts himself in the Shorts on Fire because I'm not completely sure, but I think he said something about Hot Star and then it was like a Cold Star. And then I know Caprice was right about
Oh, God, this is hard. I didn't expect it to be this hard. Okay, I'm going to guess. I don't care if I'm wrong. I am going to guess. Now I'm nervous. I know, I'm nervous. Who is our big fibber? I think Hugo is our big fibber. Because? Because I think he contradicted himself when in the Shorts on Fire round. That is some very good tuning in.
to the answers. I appreciate that. Are you correct? We are about to find out. Will, our actual stars expert, please tell us who you are.
Hi. Yeah. I'm a stars expert. I'm Caprice. Yeah, you did it. You did it. That's right. Caprice Phillips is an astronomy graduate student who works on detecting biosignatures or potential signs of life on exoplanets at The Ohio State University. So cool. I would like to know if there's life elsewhere. Caprice, are there signs of life?
So that's what we're trying to figure out. I actually study something called ammonia, which people may associate with bleach, a really smelly thing. Ammonia may be a sign of life on different types of planets, unlike Earth. So that's kind of what I'm trying to figure out, if we could detect ammonia on these different really cool exoplanets. Wow. So you'll let us know if we need to start preparing for aliens, right? Yes, I will.
Let you know. But those aliens might be little microbes swimming around. Well, then we have lots of room for them. That's okay. Okay. Caprice, time to do some fact checking. What were some of the more serious lies Hugo told? Okay.
A couple that I noted, I think when Hugo was talking about telescopes, he mentioned a gyroscope. That was a big old fib. And then Hugo actually said that smaller stars could become black holes and neutron stars. And that's another kind of big
If you go fib, you have to be really massive. It's a huge star to turn into a black hole. So those were a couple that really stood out to me, but he was really convincing. Hugo, what facts did you share that were nebulous? Oh boy, I lied so many times. I'm sorry. Oh no! So for starters, I lied a lot, but the FAA did not make up radio telescopes. Oh no.
Oh, there's no such thing as soulmate stars. I made that up. Oh, yeah. I did lie about the supernova. I lied about whether or not you could see planets with that sort of twinkle. I don't think planets really twinkle that way. There's no such thing as a lone planet. I made that up. I don't know what a potable zone is. A lone...
Made that up. I was fibbing. I just love fibbing so much. Oh, my gosh. Every which way. Wow. Yeah, he's a real fib monster. We also have that... We have about one million Earth-sized planets could fit into the sun. And let's see, those lone planets that you said, Hugo, planets that have been pushed away from their star and are all by themselves are rogue planets. Wow. And the zone of a star where liquid water can exist on its planet's surface...
The Goldilocks Zone, or Habitable, Habitable Zone. Oh, just for your information, the name of an 11-pointed star polygon is Hendikagram. Hendikagram. No, I think it's Dave. I like Dave. Dave is better. Dave is better? Makes it too complicated. Oh, and this is what I really want to know about. Black in Astroweek.
Caprice, is that something you can tell us about? So Black and Astral Week is just about the third week of June, right after Juneteenth. And it's to celebrate Black astronomers, people in space sciences, people study cosmology, meteorites, all kinds of space policy, just to celebrate and showcase the world that we're here. So I'm actually one of the lead organizers.
for Black and Astro. Yeah. Wow. It's a lot of fun. Wow. Talk about a star. This is a real star right here in our midst. Yes, Black and Astro on Twitter and it's blackandastro.com to find out our website and see the profile. So lots of good things. I really encourage you to check it out. Yeah. Super. We'll be there. Okay. We've come to the supernova portion of our game's life cycle. Thanks to our contestant Finn for his stellar performance.
Thank you to our expert and liar, Caprice and Hugo, and to Lisa for his scintillating, syndonic sounds. And of course, many thanks to our listeners tuning into The Big Fib, where the truth puts us light years ahead of liars.
The Big Fit is a production of Gen Z Media. For more great shows, visit gzmshows.com. While you're there, you can send questions for me to read on Ask Lisa and find out how you can participate and follow us on social media at The Big Fit Podcast for behind-the-scenes photos and more true facts.
And I don't care what anyone says, I'm going to get a bunch of helium balloons and create a star. And then everyone will say, look at Lisa, he's got his own star.
And that'll do it for today. Lulu here. Thank you so much for listening. Reminding you that if you liked what you heard, go and check out The Big Fib wherever you get your podcasts. They've got so many more episodes. And thank you so much for listening. Catch you in a couple spins of this dirty old planet of ours that was made from stardust.