Jamal Crawford on The Secret to Scoring 50, Getting the ‘Cold Shoulder’ from Kobe, Lessons from MJ & More
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Why do you think Chris Paul is getting in it with multiple people across the league? Credit to him in this situation. He'll do whatever it takes to win one game. Podcast P-Fam, welcome back to another episode of Podcast P, a Wave Sports and Entertainment original presented to you by PrizePix. It's your boy, PGA, and I'm joined by my guys, Jackie Long and Dallas Rutherford.

And let me tell you, we got another special one here. This is Story Mode, our first episode of Story Mode, Season 3. So it's very special to us. We got hoopers of all hoopers. Your hoopers favorite hooper. This man gives you buckets underground or mainstream, whichever way you want it. We got the legend, none other than Seattle's finest, Jamal Crawford.

Man, that's a hell of an introduction, bro. That's a hell of an introduction, bro. We had to do it right. We had to do it right. I've been watching everybody else's episodes. I'm like, man, I'm going to get on there one day. Now I know I've arrived. I've made it.

I like the favorite players because he definitely was my favorite player back in the day. Absolutely. Hoopers of all hoopers. I appreciate that, bro. For real, for real. How you living, OG? We spoke a little bit, but how you living? I'm great, bro. I ain't got no complaints. I'm just doing TV.

coaching my son and my my daughter's in it now my other daughter's in ballet my oldest is doing his thing training kids so life is good i appreciate it yeah okay so you got a so you got a daughter that's that's hooping too she just got into it yeah like she she she wearing her sleeve and everything i'm like you want to practice today she's like of course don't even ask me that yeah we probably i'm like oh you all the way in it so it's dope to see her start the journey

I love that. Was it because I always got to ask my daughter literally is at practice right now, but it was it wasn't easy to get her to this point. Was she always about basketball? Did she just fall in love with the game? Obviously, because you play. But was was that like it? Because my daughter, she ain't she don't really like sports. It's not her thing.

but her friends is doing it. So she's kind of fell into it now that she's starting to enjoy it. Was that an easy transition for your daughter? For the youngest one, it was bro. She didn't really remember me playing at all. Like she would get excited going to the game. She was real small, but just the fact like her older brother obviously plays and her brothers play. So she's been around it kind of messing around. And then over the last, like,

year or so she's been going to storm camps and like everything like she don't want to miss nothing and now she's in it and i remember the first time even her shooting a left-hand layup it was like three weeks ago i'm like damn that was a moment like she made a left-hand layup going through her legs and stuff so that's dope that your daughter's in it because my other daughter london if you roll the ball to her she gonna look like it's a bomb or something like that right away from me she ain't never doing no basketball

Right. Yeah, that's how so that's how I started with my oldest. But now she's she's kind of into it now. So she had practice right now. She literally had basketball practice right now. You never know, you know, something might click at one of those practices and he might not ever look back. You know what I mean? That's how I see it going down. I might make a play and be like, oh, like I could do that.

Yeah, right, right. Well, I will say, so like the first, because she started playing organized last year. In the first year, she was a little timid. The start of that season, she was a little timid. She, you know what I mean? She wanted to be kind of background. She didn't want the ball. You know, the ball come towards her. She gets small. By the end of that season, she like...

That's everything, bro. She pushing them all up the court. I'm like, man, yeah, this one year made a big difference. I'm using that height now. Yeah, she's using the height. Peter, she have her own colorway of your shoe, though. Is it official like that? Like, Dad, I need my own colorway. I need something nobody got. She, so, it's weird. Because she in the, like, kids wearing Jordans. So, like, my shoes, she like, ugh.

I don't really know nobody wearing Paul George's. Her friends wearing the Jordans. So she wearing the Jordans, but she does have her own colorways. Her and my other daughter make colorways that they own. So she got her own shoe colorway because my shoes are basketball shoes, right? Like she want to look swaggy and wear while she's out there. While she's out there. What shoe is she wearing? Peter Jordan's too? Yeah, she wear Jordan ones. Oh, she wear...

I'm surprised they're not wearing the Kobe's, everybody on our team. I know. Everybody wearing Kobe's. Everybody wearing them.

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P, you had mentioned that it's our first story mode of season three. And it sounds like Jamal knows what story mode is. But for the first timers or maybe some viewers that are watching us for the first time, remind the people exactly what story mode is and what we have in store for you today. Story mode episodes are look back at viral and memorable moments of basketball history with the OGs that were there in those moments. Obviously, JC is the OG. What I didn't know, and it surprised me,

You signed to Fresno State initially, right? Yeah. How close were you? I mean, obviously you went to Michigan, but how close was that, like you going to Fresno State? Bro, it was like that. Like I literally signed to go to Fresno State. Obviously at the time, and it's funny because Chris Herron's in Seattle right now doing some speaking engagement, but Chris Herron skipped, you know, Rayford Austin was there and of course Tartt. So my grades weren't the best coming out of high school at first. And

The kudos of Fresno, they're like, look, if you qualify or not, you could be a Prop 48 and come. So I'm like, oh, I'm signing with them. I wanted to play there. I love their style. Courtney Alexander was there at the time. But that happened, and then I got an extra year of eligibility. And that's when my recruitment opened back up. My grades got better, and then I went to Michigan. Yeah, but that was a done deal if I didn't get that extra year because they told me they would take me if I passed SAT or not. I was going to have to stay out of the year. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, I read that. I was like, wait, what? Yeah, you would have made Fresno State valid. Fresno State to Michigan. I mean, hey, that's quite the jump, though. So Tark came all the way down to Seattle. Bro, he came to Seattle. And I didn't know at the time, but Tim Gergerich was assistant coach with the Sonics.

And so he had told Tark, like, yo, you need to come see this kid. And Tark's notorious for not going to see anybody. Like, you got to come see Tark. Like, you know what I'm saying? It was that type deal. But he came to Seattle and saw me and sold it up. And I signed there. And it's just crazy because I never got the chance to play for him. But then the next summer, I go through the draft process. He comes and watch my workout when I'm with Gary Payton in the summer when I stayed in Fresno as well with GP. Yeah, yeah. So it was dope. Like a full circle moment.

Yeah. Yeah, that's dope. That's dope right there. Jamal, I'm looking at just your background a little bit right now, and you've played for several teams. I see the Knicks jersey and the Clippers jersey. There was a Yahoo reporter that quoted, in two seasons, the Crawford deal will look bad no matter whether Paul stays or leaves. And so there was some doubt heading into –

you going to the Clippers. I believe they signed you to a four-year deal. And there was some skeptics, but you ended up winning two more six-man trophies after that and really found a home in L.A. And I just want to hear from your perspective, what was it about playing in L.A. or what worked for you? Was it the team was a good fit for you? It just seemed like you were able to play your game as a Clipper when you were here.

So you got to go back to the year before and I ended up, it was a lockout season and I left Atlanta and I remember the lockout season. I was trying, I was working out, but I wasn't like playing with people. Cause I'm like, you know, it's contract year. My contract got extended because of the whole lockout season. So I wasn't as sharp as I should have been. I go to Portland.

I go to Portland and Nate McMillan kind of used me as a point guard, you know, and more so than the score. And so I didn't look right. And at that time, I'm 32. So people are like, oh, he's getting older. He's slowing down. And I'm saying to myself, like, no, I'm not slowing down. I'm just used differently. But I'm not going out there saying that. So I'm like, all right, when the Clippers situation happened, I'm like, I'm about to show them I'm all the way ready. So to your point, I just read that like two weeks ago, too, which is crazy.

I signed a four-year deal. People don't know, only the first two years were guaranteed. So the next two weren't. So I had to play for it. So I actually outperformed that contract within the first year or two. But I was so locked in to going to L.A., I knew, like, I needed pressure on me. I needed to go to the Knicks. When you're going to New York, you can't shortchange. Like, you got to be ready. Same thing with the Clippers. I'm like, this is going to be the best team I've been on. I got Blake. I got CP. I got all these pieces. I got to be ready. So I trained totally different teams.

And then when I go there, I start balling, right? But so I went six man, I'm 34. I'm the oldest to ever win an award. I go back and win again at 36. You know what I'm saying? So like, but I was so locked in and so focused. I'm like, I got to show up. I got to show up and show out. So the Clippers couldn't have happened if I didn't fall on my face in Portland, but people were saying it was age, but they weren't seeing what I was actually going through, playing a whole different position, used a whole different way. And PG knows this. And you guys know this to me,

Especially in my situation, I'm not PG. He's a superstar. He can go anywhere and do what he does. But you're as good or as bad as your coach thinks you are. If he has you out there for 30 minutes and you got the freedom, you're going to rock out. He may have you out there another coach for 15 minutes and you look like, oh, he's getting older, he's slowing down. It's just a different look, a different feel. So that's what happened there.

Yeah, people don't understand that part. You can be as good as you are, but if it's a situation that don't suit you, it's not going to cater to your game. You know what I mean? You could be like yourself. All-world score, you get put in a situation where you're not being able to thrive as a scorer. Now you questioning your game. I know I usually shoot. I know I'm usually aggressive here, but...

I'm not in position to do that. So, like, that's a big part people don't really understand right there. P, I got to ask both of you. Has that changed, Jamal? Like, from that time, just the way the NBA has kind of evolved. Like, I would say, like, what you experienced there in Portland was, like, a common thing for a lot of guys. Would you say now that these coaches are a little bit more mindful of –

of that and I feel like coaches are more so now than ever letting guys go out there and play their game and getting their shot would you say that it's easier now than it was when you were kind of coming up in the NBA for me I think honestly some of the coaches don't want the responsibility

Like now, just like to me, some of the coaches, most of the plays look the same. Most of the teams are playing the same way. It's easy to say, I'll switch that. I'll do that. So now it's on the player if it don't get done. Like I told him to switch. I told you what I'm saying. So it's not, it's not like it used to be. And when I was coming up,

At a certain point in your career, you were put in a box and it wasn't like positionless basketball. You know, like if I'm playing against Kobe, I actually got to guard Kobe. I can't go guard somebody else and run and hide or switch every situation. I got to fight through it. So it was different times. I think it was more responsibility on the coach as well to make sure guys are getting better, guys are in the right situations and you got to figure it out as a coach.

Now I feel like the onus, they put it more on the players. Yeah, I think it's fun to give the guys creativity that way, but it's also like you got role players like me shooting 17 threes in the game. I think that should never happen. Like, I think it should be your best players get that and your role players, they have freedom, but they have freedom in the confines of what these guys are doing, playing off of them. So it's just, it's a different time for me at least. Yeah, I was actually talking to someone, I think on a bench yesterday about this, or two days ago. Actually yesterday,

it's, it's like back then, you know, and I, I feel like I was on a tail end of that coming into the league, but it was two guys, maybe three to have freedom on a roster. Right. And it was really one guy that really had the ultimate green light, but,

Within it was maybe like, you know, there was a second or third guy that kind of had that green light as well. Everybody else kind of played a role. You're a rebounder, you're a defender, or you're a catch and shoot guy, right? I think now the NBA is kind of, to your point, like I don't think coaches really take the time out to really define roles. And it's kind of like plug in place, right? We run this system. We plug whoever in. They're expected to play this certain style, right?

And you get the scenarios where someone is, I don't want to call names out. Someone might get, you know, feel a type of way. But there is a, say, fourth, five, fifth guy on the roster that gets to shoot

11 12 threes a night it's like wait what the like yeah bro i gotta be earned a little bit right you're doing a little too much right now same to jc's point it's just the era has just changed everything obviously there's more possession so it's kind of allowed in this in this era but uh yeah it's it's yeah it's it's more i would say more on the coaches kind of defining roles and

you know, teaching and coaching a little bit more. I had to ask all good questions, all good answers right there. All good answers. Well, let us say good question. It's called an error. Yeah. Dallas, I killed it with that one. It's okay. You like how I quickly went over it real quick? Like, answers, answers. So we had DJ on the show last season and he was a part of Story Mode and he shared how special Blake Griffin was in his prime.

During those stretches, y'all two was impossible to stop. What was the best game you've witnessed from Blake? I'm going to say not the best game, but the best series. And we were playing the Spurs. And at the time, the Spurs had just beat the Heat the year before. So these are the defending champions, and we get them in the first round matchup. And we go seven games. When it was a game, CP got hurt, and he had the game-winner shot. You remember that game? When he had his hamstring hurt, he had the game-winner. But Blake was...

the best player in the series by far. Like, it wasn't even close. And the thing that's interesting about Blake is, and we play with CP, and he's one of the best point guards not only now but ever. So it's tough to see Blake's whole skill set. Like, people saw the dunks from a distance, but every day in practice, I saw how he passed, how he controlled the game. So when, you know, we usually have one of those guys who missed time. CP missed time. I would miss time. Somebody missed time.

But when CP missed it, Blake was really like the point forward. We ran everything through him. Me and JJ Redick was allowed to play on the wings and do what we do best. But we still stayed afloat. And he thrived personally because you saw his full skill set. Y'all, it was crazy. He wouldn't even dunk in practice. Like, we never seen him dunk in practice. He was saving those dunks for the games. Like, we never seen him dunk. What? Y'all never seen him dunk in practice? We never seen him dunk in practice, bro. He would get layups. He'd be dropping dimes. He'd hit threes, whatever.

But when the game comes, that's when we saw the show. You know what I'm saying? It's Lob City. But his full game, bro, he's like – and I played 20 years. I played with a lot of people. He's easily, easily on the top shelf of, like, the players I've ever played with. It's not even close. Wow. Yeah, he was ridiculous. I want to ask you something about what DeAndre said from story mode as well from that last one. He said he explained some of the shortcomings of the team from the team's perspective.

which Clippers team do you feel should have won a title but ultimately fell short from? I'm going to go with two teams. I'm going to go with the one my first year. So they started CP, Willie Green when Chauncey was hurt, Matt Barnes, Blake and DJ.

But our bench was myself, Eric Bledsoe, Lamar Odom, Grant Hill, Ronny Turioff, Ryan Hollins. Like, we were so deep. Y'all were stacked. We were stacked, bro. So it was that one. Big time. It was that one. And then the year that we beat San Antonio. Because then we go up 3-1 against Houston.

And that one's going to haunt me forever. We're up 19 in the third quarter at home to go on to the Western Finals. We'll play Golden State. James Harden didn't play one minute in the fourth quarter. They came back and beat us, bro. That's when Jason Terry, Pablo, Josh Smith's going crazy, Corey Brewer. So those two teams, I thought should at least make the finals, bro. At least make the finals that year. Those two. Yeah, that 3-1 was...

That hurts. I mean, that forever goes down in Clippers history as like, you know, one of the toughest. Because, you know, like, you know, from afar, growing up, I was...

Obviously being in the league, I can't root for a certain team, but growing up, obviously Clippers and Lakers were like teams I rooted for. And so just knowing the history behind where it came from, and I was rooting on it. Being on the East, I was like, yeah, this Clippers team is exciting to watch. They got a shot. And then that happened. And then that's just when it was like, man, anything, anything happens in the league, man. I think that was my only time when I really was a Clipper fan. That was my only time I was a real Clipper fan. Hold on, why only then?

Why don't we do it? I'm going to be honest with you, JC. I'm from L.A., man. I'm an L.A. Laker. You know, my uncles and them grew up off of us watching the Lake show. You know what I'm saying? Magic and everything. So, you know what I'm saying? I always cheer for the Clippers inside because they from L.A. And, you know, of course, when PG, my boy, was there, of course, I was rooting for him. But he gone now. And you gone, too. Shit. I don't want to see your ass at the game. So what the hell am I rooting for the –

for the Clippers, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, I'm just keeping it real. I like the Clippers. I like, I know some people over there, but I'm a Laker, man. And if y'all not too, not for the Clippers, then I don't got to worry about the Clippers. But I'm going to ask you this, though, keep it real with me too now, man. Do you think the relationship between CP and Blake ultimately,

I can't even say the word. Ultimately, it caused a lack of success. You get paid to say words, bro. You can't even mess with the camera. This is what you do. You don't know your way about it, but you got what I'm saying. No.

Honestly, I never once, and I was with them for five years, I never once seen them two have a blow up. That's what was weird about it. I never once seen them just go at each other. Not in a film session, not in a meeting, none of that. It was more so like

We didn't really like talk about those things. If there was some, it was never like an air out session with them too. It's none of that. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, it was always like weird, like, damn, because it was never like, oh, that's why they met each other. That don't work because of that. It was never that. So that's why it was weird. I honestly think personally, to be very honest with you, I think we weren't mentally tough. And I thought as a group, not any one person. And I thought,

When adversity hit, sometimes we went like this. We didn't just come like this. And I think, you know, we had injuries at the wrong time. Bro, there's one stretch in the playoffs. In a five-minute stretch, we miss our two best players. Blake gets hurt. It's important. You can look it up. Five minutes later, CP gets hurt. They're done for the playoffs. I'm like, what? Like, it was stuff like that, bro. Like, it was some weird stuff that happened. Like, weird stuff. And we know CP stayed injured. So, yeah. God damn.

It was tough, bro. It was tough. That was a Lakers shot right there. I ain't about to get into that with you. I see how you bringing it. Speaking of Chris Paul, there's actually a clip. I think it was during the playoffs in 2018. He was on the Rockets and you were with Minnesota. And watching you throughout your career, I don't think I've ever really seen you get too upset during a game. But it looked like

You gave him a little forearm chuck. You stood over him. What was it during that moment that got you that upset? And I also want to know, playing with him and against him, a lot of people, I think Chris Paul rubs a lot of people the wrong way. That's just my view of him. I think a lot of people love him, and I think a lot of people don't like him. But we've seen this guy...

Well, the one with me, like you said, I played with him five years. So I've seen some of those, you know, back and forth exchanges. And Chris, I think he's a great guy.

Credit to him in this situation. He'll do whatever it takes to win one game, whether cameras is on, whether it's practice, whatever it was. Some of our best battles was when I was on the second team and he in the first team and we talking shit back and forth to each other, you know, in practice, like really going at it. Right. So CP stole on me. He hit me, man. Y'all didn't see it. He got me in the mouth, bro. I'm like, hold up, see, damn. And he didn't even say like, oh, I got you. You're supposed to run, don't lean on me. No.

No, that's the game I'm talking about. So I got him in a form a couple of plays later. So he had got me in my mouth. Like he kind of got me. He didn't sock me like that, but he kind of got me in the mouth, formed my mouth or whatever it was. So I was like, oh, no, he didn't even say my bad, nothing. So then that's how that happened afterwards. That's where it started. That's where it started. Y'all saw the end of it and then I stood over it. But no, that's my brother. And he's one of the most competitive people I've ever seen in sports.

And that's why I think a lot of that is there because he'll do whatever it takes to win. And I'm not saying he's dirty by any means, but he'll do whatever it takes to win anything. Like one time, I'm going to give you a story. One time we were, you know how it is, P, when you come back from All-Star, that first practice is usually hard. Not for the guys at All-Star, but it's like a harder practice. You know what I'm saying? Like guys have been off for five days, whatever. And so we practiced for three hours. And then after that, CP and I stayed for another two hours, just shooting spots, one-on-one.

It was the first day and people were like, our trainer, Jason Powell, you know, JP, he was like, I got you off the court, bro. Like we got to get them all. But that's just what it was with us. But that's my brother. Like it's nothing but love. And very few people have that I've seen in this business period love the game as much as he does. And he's one of the greats. I do see that. That is where, you know, I'm not the fondest of CP these days.

but that's kind of where our fall off came about. You know what I mean? Because people don't know this. Me and CP used to have a great relationship, right? Like he was the reason I got LASIK. Had a conversation with him. He recommended an eye doctor for me. I went to go see the eye doctor and I got LASIK and my eyes have been terrific. But it was, our relationship was up to that level where I could give him a call. Like, yeah, like, hey, like, you know, my shit is fucked up.

And so now fast forward, we get into a, I think it was a playoff matchup against Phoenix or it was a regular season game. Can't remember which one it was, but we get into it. And words was a little, you know what I mean? Words was thrown out there that shouldn't be thrown out there between, you know what I mean? Two men. And so that kind of just drew the line for me. And I'm one of those, once you're on one side, bro, you stay in there. Yeah. So absolutely. I get where that competitive nature comes from. I don't know if it's that little man syndrome, but,

But he definitely got that competitive nature. I was about to say, Pete, I know for a fact if y'all got into it, just like me and him, and we're good now, but it's over basketball. It has to be something competitive. It would never be nothing away from the court. Like you said, one of the best people. Family's unbelievable. Mom, dad, brother, everybody. Y'all got to get back cool, Pete. He gave you the vision to see.

He gave the doctor the call. You got to be back here already, man. He gave me the call. It was respectable at the moment because I looked up to him. You know what I mean? And I'm the type, like, if you an OG to me, like, I'm going to respect that 100%. You know what I mean? I ain't going to ever go against. You'll never hear me disrespectful. You'll never hear me call you out your name. Like, if I respect you as an OG, like, you got it 100%. I'm blessing you with that OG. But, you know, if you give me some type of –

type of way, I can't respect that. So it's none that if this season, if y'all play each other again, it is what it is. Okay. It is. It is. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. You ask these questions. I got a question about ATL. We don't get ATL to it. What you going to do, man?

I'm here about beating you on the head. We all want to see that. Listen, y'all going to get ATL too when y'all wake up from y'all dream and tell me how it was. Tell me how it was, man, because I ain't got a call from nothing. At the end of the day, I'll tell you this. It's been, what, about 20-something years now? I don't

Don't say you don't want to do it. I don't want to mess up. No, no, no. I'm going to say this. If they give me the car, of course I'm going to do it, but I don't want to mess up something that I think is so great. And I know sometimes giving people something that they won't can always not always be your great. You know what I'm saying? And it's so many stories that I done heard from scripts that we, that I actually sat down and read a script of one of ATL two and some stuff that

At the time, I would say was great to do. But since the time has changed, I don't even know how they would do that script, how they would write it or do, because there's so many things in the world now that hasn't changed. So much that went on. Yeah, and then with our girl Lauren London,

I don't, you don't know. I don't know how she feels about even being in the entertainment business as, as much as from back in the day. And, you know, some of us, Evan does his thing. Jason Weaver is doing a shy with me right now. We still doing our thing. I'll be, you know, we still hear some of us still look, look, we all look young and we ready to, you know, to do that movie, whatever for the people. But I,

I'm not going to sit here and think that's the only thing that I got going on in my career to say, oh, I got to do ATL too. If it come, it come. And I would love to do it for the people, but. But that's what the people want. I heard we're getting a Friday. I heard we're getting a new Friday. Well, I mean, y'all got to talk to Will Smith, Dallas Austin. Y'all got to talk to Lauren London, T.I., Jackie Long, Evan Frost, Albert Brown. We talk to Jackie Long. We talk.

the twins, the DJ Malika. You know, I'm going to tell you this to the camera. The fans want an ATL too, y'all. Y'all be in this movie before we all get too old and can't move because I do got sciatica and all I'm saying is I can't be out there skating like I used to. So if we're going to do this, let's do it now. Give it to the people because the people are asking. We all

Just want to, you know, do something great for the people. So Dallas, Will Smith and Warner Brothers, I'm going to say this once and I'm going to say it here and they can say it with me. We all want a sequel. And that's what it is. Step it up and let's get it done. Appreciate that. I got one more follow up question for Jamal, just because I'm curious on perspective, because, you know, you're a little bit older than P. And I understand what you were saying there, P, on their certain lines there.

that get crossed on the basketball floor when you are, you know, shit talking. But, you know, I've been on a lot of basketball courts, P, with a lot of players, and I've never been in the NBA, but I've heard some wild stuff. And I'm just curious from your perspective, Jamal, do you believe there is a line that

Because guys use that to get under people's skin and to get them upset and to make it personal because that's a way that they can possibly disrupt relationships.

the skill that they have on the floor. Do you think there's a line on what shit you can talk and what you can't? I don't think it's a line on what shit you can talk and what shit you can't, but it's a line on, okay, if you take it there, now we're in somewhere else. You crossed that line as far as like, yo, you said that, we got to handle this differently now. So yeah, that line could be crossed, but

I'm thinking when you were saying it, I'm thinking about some of my OGs. Like Gary Payton would say anything. If he thinks it's going to bother you and get you out of your skin, he's going to say anything. And he may not even remember he said it when the game's over with. Like he may be like, oh, shit, I was just saying that. You know what I mean? So, yes, to answer your question,

Like, clearly, yes, there's a line in that way, but just know if you cross it, anything can go from there. Like, it can go wherever at this point because you kind of disrespected me personally. You said something foul about my family, whatever it might be. Yes, now it's a little different. So I may look at you different. I may treat you different. I may react differently. You know what I mean? So, yes, in that regard –

Yeah, it can go there. So yeah, there's lines you just don't cross. But if you do cross them, just be prepared for whatever comes after that. At that point, the gloves is off. That's fair. That's what it is. That's what I stand on. I'm standing on business on that note.

Hey, JC, so speaking of talented groups, obviously that Clippers team was ultra talented. You was also on another ultra talented team with that Atlanta Hawks team in 2010, it being your first six-man of the year award when you got Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, loaded roster. Talk to us a little bit about that experience playing with those guys. So, bro, at that time, you know, because you came in, like you said, at the tail end of kind of how the era's changed, but

At that time, you were known, I was getting known as like a really good player on bad teams. So I was looked at as a loser. So I'm like, bro, I'm not a loser. I won in high school. I won in college. You know, I won since I was a kid. So I'm like, man, I'll do whatever it takes to win at this point and be looked at differently. So then as fate would have it, I get traded from Golden State to Atlanta. And when that happens, they already got their starting five in place. Josh, Bibby, Marvin, Al, Dwayne.

and Joe. And so I've come off the bench and I know I was going to come off the bench coming into the season. So before the season starts, I'm going to runs locally in Seattle East that I could be one of the first players playing. I'm waiting to the second and third game just so I can get used to seeing like, okay, the game's going to start before I came here. I've never done this. I'm trying to trick myself. And so then when I go there in the first game,

I come off the bench. I think I was playing Indiana. I had three points. You could look at it. I was one for two, three points. And I'm like, man, I feel weak. I feel like the people looking at me different. Like I slowed down. I'm in my own head. So I went from that to Joe Johnson and Woody put me in the office. Like, no, you got to go beat you. Like, you still going to be one of the top scorers on this team, et cetera. I'm like, oh. So I went from that thinking to like, oh, I'm Superman. The show don't start until I get in. Y'all do your thing. Y'all the appetizer. When I come in, it's real. So that's how I changed my mindset.

And that changed my career because I think I was able to play longer, to be honest with you. I think I was able to be fresher. I'm going to get second unit guys. So now when I come in, I'm the main focus on offense. Joe and those guys are going to get the ball when they're out there. When I come in, it's kind of my time. And I had the city with me. Like I had never played in a city where everything was like us, like all around. Even the people doing the piss test was us. I'm like, damn, you're doing the piss test? I thought it was just a whole different –

feel you know what I'm saying so I'm like yeah this is dope and they showed a lot of love and I think I like that team was really good but I brought a little bit of a little flavor to it as well so it made our team like special we won 53 games six man a year I averaged 18 off the bench should have been all-star along with Josh Smith he really should have been all-star yeah he was third he was third we were third in the in the uh in the eastern conference I thought we'd get you know a couple all-stars but Josh should have got one for sure mm-hmm

That's respectable. But talk to us a little bit about, because obviously Melo had the situation where, you know, they wanted him to come off the bench probably too soon for where he was at. And so for you, you obviously could still fill it up, still like you're a starter. How was that like now to have that mindset of like coming off the bench? Was it more so just you all in with the team?

Was it because I know like it had to be from a mental standpoint, like, no, I'm like, I'm I'm not no bitch player. Like, I'm not coming off the bench. I'm good enough to start. And I and I compare that to the Mello situation because, again, right. They wanted Mello to come off that a little prematurely. How was how was your mindset to be able to shift to that knowing like, I know I'm a starter, but this is my role and I'm accepted.

I took it as a, and honestly, like I said, I wasn't as big as you or Mello. So you guys are like super duper, duper star. So it's, I can understand y'all like even AI when it was like, when they try to get them to come off the bench in Memphis and in Detroit behind Stucky, like, dog, what are you? I just did this, this and that. And I can still do this with that opportunity. But for me, I wasn't as big. I was more like an urban legend, like a street legend. Like you took me off the park and I'm just hooping. Like I said, I was cool. I'm like, man, I'll do whatever. Yeah.

So, and I wanted a different, like, not that I wanted, but I pride myself on any challenge I can figure it out. You know what I'm saying? Like, and still be effective. I find joy and pride in that. But one thing Pete and Jack and Dallas people don't realize is when you sacrifice to come off the bench, you're sacrificing a lot because, like I said, I should have been an all-star.

If I was starting with those exact same numbers, I would have been an all-star. But the coach was like, nah, you come off the bench. I'm like, so damn, y'all want to reward me and say, oh, he's doing this noble thing, come off the bench. But then when it's time to pick for the all-star, he's like, nah, he's a bench player. He's still sending double teams, all that.

So sacrificing all-star means you're going to sacrifice contracts. If you're all-star, your contract's slated. In my book, you're an all-star, JC. You my all-star, man. I'm a hood all-star, Jack. You my all-star, dog. I don't care how they see it. No, I appreciate it. But so you're sacrificing time. You're sacrificing money as well because with that contract, you're sacrificing all the way around, not just the playing time or your ego if not starting. And people don't see that. But what's dope about it is

I didn't know years after I'm done playing, I'm in gyms all the time with my son and with these kids. And they're like, now I want to be a six man too. Like I never knew that was the vision or like it was going to be a cool thing after myself and Lou did it. You know what I mean? Like that's, that's really, really dope. And cause that's legacy, right? Like I didn't know that was on the other side of that. Yeah. No, you definitely, I would say you definitely made it cool to, to, for someone that know they could be a starter, but,

I'm a thrive in this role of coming off the bench and being a spark. And now I get to run the show. Like I still get to be who I am, even if I start or if I come off the bench. So I think you made it cool and you made that, you know, accepted of being the first guy off the bench and get as soon as you come in, it's go time. So if they named that award after you, after you, would you, would you be all for that?

Oh, yeah. I think myself and Lou could be like, we could share that. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think we both like pushed it forward because you had Jason Terry, Detlef Schrempf, Manu. You had a bunch of dudes. But I mean, let's just keep it real. In our urban community, people weren't feeling being, we never grew up saying I wanted to be a six man. Never grew up. Exactly. Like that wasn't the goal. You know what I'm saying? So now that you have kids, like, no, I'll come off the bench.

bitch, it's all good. They did it. They made it look cool. They got swag when they play. That's like, that's cool. And just when you were talking, it made me think, imagine that, right? So I looked at it like I was in a band. Like, okay, I'm known as a drummer. Boom.

damn, you need me to sing too? I could do that. You need me to play the piano? I could do that. And I can dance too, so I prided myself on that. And I felt like not only would it extend my career, it would give me more value because what team wouldn't want me with 20 points down here coming off the bench? Versatility of that, yeah. Versatility of that, exactly. That's value with that. I was going to say, JCPG always told me, honestly, how hard it is to score 10 points in the NBA. Yeah.

Like, what you laughing at, Dallas? You like how I do that? You like how I bring my idea up? Remember, who did he say would score 10 easy? Like, he said Terrell Owens. It was some wild fight. Yeah, Terrell Owens. He said Terrell Owens. He said Terrell Owens. He gets 10 easy. I'm like, that's how he would it. He ain't scoring 10. He ain't scoring 10 in the league. He ain't scoring 10. That's why I'm laughing, Jackie.

Yeah, he's not scoring 10 for sure after I learned from my boy. But I'm saying this to say, you be a six man getting double teamed and all this. You are the only player in NBA history to have 50 point games with four different franchises, which I don't.

God, get, man, scored all these points and got to be a six man. But I want to know, you played for the Bulls, the Knicks, the Warriors, and the Suns, getting them 50 pieces, man. Which one is your favorite? I'm going to tell you two of them. So, man, it's story time. I got to give you three. I'm sorry. The first one is Chicago. The first one, we play in Toronto. I'm with the Bulls. And Roman Modrowski, you can look it up. It was his last day on the beat. He's like, man, why don't you get 50 today? And I'm tying my shoes.

I said, I could do that. And he's like, yeah, okay. I said, I'm going to do it today. And I scored 50. Afterwards, I'm wearing S.Dot cars and we're in Toronto and I still got a Blackberry. So I ain't get the message till I got back to Chicago. But Jay texted me and said, it must be the shoes. So that was dope.

The one in New York, I had 52. That was the hottest night of my life because that was one of those ones, Pete, where you're having a Wednesday workout and you make 20 in a row. Like I made 16 straight shots. So I came out the game with seven minutes to go. I had never been that hot in an NBA game. Like that was, if I stayed in, I could have got 65 to 70. Like I was that hot.

So that was my hottest one. And it was in the garden. And it was in the garden. Heath Ledger was there, bro. Heath Ledger was there. That's my next question I was going to ask you something. I was going to ask you about my boy. Okay. About Heath? I was going to ask you because they say he was at one of them games, and when you scored them 50, they say Heath Ledger, that's what you made him want to start playing basketball. That's a fact. Yeah. No, that's a fact. Share that story. Okay.

So that same night, since we were on that game, I used to always look at like celebs in the crowd. The Knicks had like a little section. I'd see the celeb. I saw he was at that game. I'm like, damn, he's at that game. So about a year ago at this point, we got an email to my foundation. And the guy was like, I forgot his name. And he was like, hey, just want you guys to know.

Heath Ledger was at the game that night. I was sitting next to him. Our kids played together, yada, yada. He said, but we went to eat at Spotted Pig, which Jay owned in New York. He's like, went to eat with Jay that night and he told Jay about what you did.

And you helped him start getting into playing basketball. He said he was quiet talking about you. And it was crazy. I'm like, damn, this is crazy. So you never know who was there. Watch the influence. Right. And how you influence all these kids. Now, I got to tell you a story. My son, I will get to it. But my son was we're in the gym shooting. He said, hold on. He went on, put on that Eric about do. Didn't you know? And then he went to his PG mode and started getting his. I said, OK, he would not start to that song came on and he went to it.

But the influence. That's love. Yeah, but the last one was tough because, honestly, Jack, I didn't know that was going to be my last game. So I'm thinking, you know, Dirk has a farewell. And, you know, I needed 25 because at that point, I think myself and Kobe were the only ones that scored 25 in their 19th year in three straight games. So I got 25 going to the fourth. I'm like, oh, I can just hoop now. And then 51. And that was crazy. Yeah, off the bench. Yep.

Damn. You know, I still ain't hit 50. I was about to ask you, P, have you scored a 50? I still ain't hit 50. I've been close. I got a couple 48s, couple 47s.

P, you could get 50 so easy. With this team, he definitely can. He could get 50 so easy with the way he plays because when you're rolling, bro, like it's not only fun to watch and it's beautiful, but your points start counting by sixes. Like, damn, he went to six. He had 12? Damn, he had 18. Like, you start going that fast. So you can get 50.

easy it's it's definitely a scheme to it too by the way it's definitely a system yeah you got you got that you got to shoot me that system yeah it's a system to it well first off you gotta shoot you gotta shoot 17 threes okay 17 threes and you're gonna be high because you're gonna shoot a lot so you're gonna make about eight or nine of them so that takes you right there to 24 27 okay you're gonna get eight to ten free throws because they're gonna be fouling you you're at 37

You don't get four minutes. Come on, bro. 45 minutes. You already there. You're going to push through it, too. I just told you, baby. I'm going to try. Me and that brace, boy. I told him, JC, the other day, and like he was doing, I told him he got to start getting more triple doubles. When was the last time he had triple doubles? He said he think last season. And I'm like, on this team, you can have triple doubles all day. Look what he had the other night.

Again, I'm just saying. Close. I'm just saying, Pete. Nah, the game is easy for Pete, bro. Like, it's really funny how easy it is. Like, damn, and it's fun to watch. And you guys know when you see an actor, Jack, Dallas, you watch him, you're like, man, that dude is different than the rest because the way he does something. It could be, y'all can say the same line, but he does it a little differently. Like, Pete got that. You know what I'm saying? So it's just a little different. That's what comes with it.

Yeah. I think that like, especially at this age, it's crazy that I've been fortunate to be a scorer and, and, and I guess make the game look easy from a scorers mentality, but I've, I've always got the pleasure of playmaking. Like I love creating and, you know, making plays and making the game easy for everyone around me. And it's funny to, it's comical to me because, you know, people see me as, you know, ISO score ISO player, but,

I've only learned breaking down dudes to set someone up. You know what I mean? Like that's always been my game as a kid coming up. And then I just learned, I played a ton of one-on-one. So I've always learned how to shoot over people and create spacing. And, and, but my whole game was always, I was taught to create for others, like play and make the game easy for everyone else.

So that's me by nature. And so like, that's why I think I don't, I just don't have that 50 piece mentality. I never had that mentality. It was just like, I want to make the game easy for everybody around me. I want to create, I want to distribute, you know what I mean? I want to play defense, take the pressure off of,

I want to lock up. You know what I mean? Fuck that. Get 50, Pete. I'm going to try. He would rather get 35, 13, and 12 than to get 50. Yes, exactly. He got that T-Mac all around smooth, can do it all day. Yeah, P-Game is smooth. And then guard. And then guard. I remember when you would guard me, I'm like, oh, shit. First off, I got to get you on the pick and roll.

And when you're in a pick and roll, I got to push dribble in front to get more space so I can – and bigs and drop coverage. So I can push dribble to get you just enough, and he's back far enough I can get the middie. So, yeah, your defense was serious too. Yeah, because you know Roy was in that deep drop. Yeah, in that drop. I'm like, ooh, okay, I got to make sure I pick at this screen. Yeah, I couldn't do nothing with it.

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I do want to talk about you. You spoke a little bit about Jay-Z being or him texting you after that 50 piece wearing the S.Dot Carters. How did how did that relationship grow? How do you and Hove get so tight? Well, it's crazy because imagine this. You get so tight with Michael Jordan that you like MJ. I want to meet Jay-Z. He's like, OK. So then he tells Wes, we know worldwide West, right? I'll never forget. I tore my ACL. We're in Chicago one of those summer nights.

And, you know, before you have surgery, like you have to strengthen your legs. So you got like a week of not doing nothing. So they were like, Wes, like, why aren't you on your crutches? And I'm like, no, I'm good. I'm strengthening for my leg. I'm glad I got to have surgery next week. And I'm walking to Wes. He's standing outside a car. And I'm not realizing that it just looks like any other car on the street. When I get to Wes, about two feet from him, the window rolls down.

And it's Jay. And I said, oh, shit. I'm like, oh, that's my guy. So it caught me off guard. And then I started, like, he would come to Hoops the Gym where I was playing, where MJ was playing there. And I was on the team. I mean, one time, Hoops the Gym was so legendary. And you go to UCLA. Jay-Z and Beyonce are sitting there on the court watching Michael Jordan, like, play. Like, the stories is ridiculous, bro. It was so many people in there. So he's watching us play. And then we kind of, you know, started a friendship or whatever. And then

From there, I was already with Reebok. I went and played for him in the Rucker. And when I went and played for him in the Rucker, our relationship really took off. And that whole blackout game, like all that, I was only supposed to go once. I ended up going like six, seven times. And then from there, when he got with S.Doc Carter, that's when it was like, yo, you know, it's a funny story. So Jalen Rose and I always got Reeboks. We were both Reebok athletes.

And I looked over at my locker. I had like a box that was black and gray. I looked at his locker. It's moving the same stuff he didn't have. I'm like, what are these? And I open it up. It's the S.Dot Carters. I'm like, oh shit. So they sent them to me. So now I start wearing them in the game and our relationship really took off.

I got a rock chain and everything. Oh, that's... You guys killing it. Yeah, you family. He got his first ones. I'm showing it on the O-chain, but... Oh, here you go, Dallas. Here you go. Jamal, for the fans. Hey, me and Jess on the West. I don't know where we at right now. We on the West right now. I'm straight West Coast. I'm straight West Coast. There's a lot of flip-flopping going around over here. I'll tell you that. I'm straight West Coast.

You just spoke a little bit about that blackout game. Jamal, if you wouldn't mind just sharing with the viewers that don't know about that story, what was the most memorable part of that game that was supposed to take place? And if you could just quickly...

Share that because it's awesome that Jay handpicked you to be on his squad and you were going to face up with Allen Iverson, Melo, Yao Ming. Talk about that game and what was going to happen. So what was going to happen was it was Jaycee's team against Pat Joe's team. Everybody knew they were the two top teams all season long. So now it's like the apex. This is it. So one of those summer nights, Jay tells us that he rode past the park at 10 a.m.

At 10 or 11 a.m. At that point, there's already like 8000 people outside. Everybody's trying to get in this game. This is the one everybody's been talking about. So we'd always meet at 4040. I go to 4040 myself at that time. Rich is out there. Rich Paul, LeBron, Eddie Curry, Sebastian Tilford. Everybody's outside. We always get on the bus to go to the park.

Well, the lights go out. And we're like, okay, you know, it's New York City. The lights ain't going out. Like, okay, this is New York, bro. Like, it'll be on in 10 minutes, five minutes, whatever. And they didn't come out. And they never came back on. So we all went to Hot 97. Fat Joe's on there. It's the only radio station everybody can listen to. And we're on there talking crazy. We were talking a little crazy. And they was talking crazy about the game. They got their people. Shaq was going to come out.

And they were like, let's reschedule it. But the next day, Jay and Beyonce were going on vacation. So it was no reschedule. The game didn't happen that day. It wasn't happening. And ultimately, that's what happened.

Okay. Yeah, never happened, bro. Wow. That would have been historic. Crazy. Crazy. I just wanted to ask you this little nosy question, though, because you did both. I wanted to know, were you more nervous to hoop at the Rutgers or in the NBA for the first time? The Rutgers, bro. The Rutgers. And the NBA was crazy. Yeah, bro, they don't care about nothing.

They don't care about nothing but your performance. They don't care about your name. They don't care about – they can't wait to boo you if you on some bullshit. What is it that the fans are looking for, though? The flashiness, the scoring the points, the dunks. They want the buckets. They want the buckets, bro. Don't come out here –

on no cool, like passing, like, no, come perform. You're a pro. They want, they want you to separate yourself and show the difference. I used to be at IIT in Chicago. Crazy story. D Rose told me when I played with him in the Sonics, like, bro, you was one of the first pros I seen in a person like in the summer, just on some summer league shit. Like, so you, you never know who's watching, but those kids, those adults, they gonna let you know about yourself. So,

All the summer leagues, bro, was probably harder, to be honest with you, because when you're on the pros, everybody's a pro. But you're supposed to go there and perform. Like, you got to go separate yourself and put on a show that they're going to remember. They're looking for you to score 100 in there. They want to. Jack, that's like me and you reading lines. You come up in Seattle and read some lines. I'm like, that's Jackie Long. He better not be messing up. Jack, don't be messing up. Right.

Right. Don't be bullshitting. I'll tell you that. But that's all I want to ask, which one was harder? Because I know they both, the NBA, you know, got the best of the best players in the world. And the Rucker, of course, got the best urban legends. And, you know, just want to know the difference. But I probably if I said I probably would have said the the Rutgers as well, because it just seemed just that name alone just sounded.

to go to the Rutgers. And all eyes is on you. Jack, it would be like you and I just heard Denzel say this. It would be like you doing a movie where you can shoot it, reshoot and all that, and then being on stage doing it like on theater type, where it's like, man, I got to be sharp. I got to be on it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, because you can't mess up on stage at all. Straight got to go. Yeah, they want to see it. I got a follow-up question just on

Your love for the game to entertain on a basketball court because I know you have your runs in Seattle, your pro-am. I was fortunate to come down there and play in it. Man, came and dropped almost 50 quick. You almost 50, type of guy. I almost had 50. Yeah, I almost had the 50. In that setting, I can go for a 50 piece. I can go for a 50 piece because I know like, all right, I'm just, this is my list. I'm just out here to perform, like play and do my thing.

Uh, but for you, I know that, that like it's, it's, it's certain people obviously that play basketball and very good at it, but it's people that know how to hoop. And, and I look at you like you're, you a hooper and you know how to entertain and put on a show. And, and I know it comes from a, of a place of just love of the game.

because you still do it. Even people I talk to, Mike Ladd, I take you to Mike Ladd. That's my man. Yeah, he talks about you. Fresno State, baby.

But I would talk to him. He was like, dog, literally Jamal plays basketball every day. Like, so, cause I, you know, I'm asking him like, like, you know what I mean? What kind of workouts are you like, bro? Yeah. He hoops. You mean where he hoops? He plays ball every day. Where did that passion, that love for the game come from? Bro. That was my, it's my life.

Like, you know how now when you're talking to kids, you're like, man, if you're not working out right now, there's a kid right now in Chicago, LA, New York, working out on the ground. Like that was me. I was that kid. So that's why I could dribble so good. Seattle rains a lot. I'm always, I'm out there for hours. I'm looking at anybody here. Cool. Like I'm, I was, I'm,

I was, I felt like I was born to play basketball. Like if you give me a ball right now, bro, I'm telling you, it feels like something takes over my body. I feel like I can literally do anything with a basketball. I could do a move. I've never done before in a split second. It just happens. It's like a gift. And the feeling I get, bro, it's, it's, it's ridiculous. And it's funny because my son is the same way. And I haven't even had some of those thoughts since I was a kid, but,

I've always, I owe basketball everything. Like, I literally owe the game everything, bro. And I've never cheated that. I used to be like, I'll pay the NBA to let me play in the NBA as a kid. Like, I was one of the ones that would sneak in the game and I see Michael Adams shooting, you know, before a game and the house music is playing. I'm like, oh, that's what the pros listen to? I'm going home to listen to that. Oh my God,

I was that kid, bro. So I just love the game so much. Yeah, you just wired. Yeah, and now talking the game like on TV and stuff and coaching allows me to like feel my passion in a different way. Working with players and stuff. Yeah, it's dope, bro. Yeah, that's love. So Vince Carter being one of your greatest advocates, he calls you the greatest ball handler that he's ever had.

or that he's ever seen and considers you to be, obviously, as we all do, a Hall of Famer. What is your favorite story of y'all two competing against each other? Man, Vince. There's so many stories. Like, I played him when I was with the Bulls and he was with the Raptors, but I ain't gonna lie, I wasn't guarding. I get two fouls so quick. Somebody else go get Vince because you wouldn't duck your matchup. I remember playing against him a lot when I was with the Knicks and he was with the Nets because we was right there. Vince is just, bro, he was...

There was one I remember where he caught it and windmilled it to end it, like to end the game or something. And I was like, damn, like, like he could do anything. It looks so easy. It just looked different, too. Oh, come on, bro. Like, this ain't even fair.

You know what I'm saying? So, like, he was this, and you know him. He's an unbelievable person. Unbelievable human being. His humility, his, like, how he cares about people. He's one of the nicest people I've ever met in the NBA. Yeah, I remember that game. I think he had close to 50 in it with a live windmill, something crazy. Jamal, you were talking a little bit about your time in Chicago, but after your rookie season, you had gone on record and mentioned that the late Jerry Cross had plans to build a super team with the Bulls.

And I think he was trying to get Grant Hill, Tim Duncan and Tracy McGrady. Do you remember the details of that plan and why exactly it fell through? Yes, I do remember that it was. And they even had those guys. If you go back, TMAC actually came through the airport and they had like the Bulls cheerleaders there and everything. Like I remember this was the first time I ever heard this term.

Jerry Krause was like, why rush down and get one when you can walk down the hill and get them all? He really thought they were going to get Grand Hill or we'll get Grand Hill, Tim Duncan and McGrady. And if you go back, I guarantee they were all free agents around that time because he thought we would get all three. He had the money. We had the youth, you know, and he was like, we're going to get all of them. His mind was thinking like that.

For sure. Yeah, he was absolutely thinking like that. Man, super team. That's crazy, right? Could you imagine Mac and Grant and Tim Duncan on the team? And TD? Oh my God. Come on, bro. Yeah, that would be crazy. That would have been the start of super teams, right? Yes, yes, it would have, for sure. I brought up that 2010 team and TMAC was on that 2010 team as well.

And I remember, I don't know if it was a preseason game that we matched up against y'all or it was a regular season game, but it was my first time playing against y'all. And T-Mac was one of my idols growing up. And I got a chance to guard T-Mac and the respect that I have for this dude. He's bringing the ball up, almost playing point forward, and he's bringing the ball up. And, you know, me being a young guy,

I'm going to get in and I'm going to try to pressure full court. For sure. So I'm guarding them full court and it

it was a, I don't, it was like a voice in my head. Like, nah, that's like, you can't turn TMAC over. Like, so I'm, I feel like I was just playing token defense. Like I'm not my usual self. I'm not poking at the ball. I'm not trying to go like, I'm, I'm literally like just happy to be in front of him. Guard, guard him down the court. But talk to us a little bit about your experience of, of the prime TMAC. What was he like? Yeah.

You know what I mean? Matching up against him and seeing him up close in the league. Bro, he was so ridiculous. Like, and I caught him. He had just went to Orlando. So he went through that run. Bro, he averaged 32 points.

damn near six assists damn near five rebounds when scoring was tough to come by he was 23 he was 23 so i don't know if i said this before but i wouldn't stay with t-mac i'm like bro can i come work out with you he's like yeah so i wouldn't stay with him for a week in houston and to see how he was working out because you know when we watch you dudes i ain't gonna lie we watch pg we watch mac

We like, man, it looks so easy. They really working like that. You know what I'm saying? It looks so easy. Like I ain't really working like that. So I'm thinking it's going to be like, we're going to get some training and bro, this man's up at six in the morning on the track. Then he come have breakfast. Then he go work out at eight in the morning in the gym. Then he, after that,

He's got lunch and he's doing the weight room. Then after that, it's a break and he's back in shots. And he's working out three, four times a day. I'm like, damn, it was actually hard. I thought it was going to be something like that. I came in and I saw Max Saltz. You know what I'm saying? So show me a couple of hand dribbles. But no, so it was like enlightening to see somebody like that work how hard he worked and how easy the game is. And dudes like y'all, when you go back to the passing, I've never seen somebody who was really smart who couldn't pass.

Or somebody who could really pass that's not smart. So you got to see things a step or two before it actually happens. And talking to him, like how he did what he did. He was a brilliant mind. Like he's a brilliant basketball player. And he could –

The way he was like, no, over here you can do it. He was one of the first people to show me a hang dribble right. Him and then Grant Hill like really made it make sense to me. Like we validated like, okay, Mac was showing me that because I was only a hang dribble left dude. He started showing me hang dribble right. But I went, I don't think I've ever said I wouldn't stay with him for a week and stay at his house, guest house. And we was working out every day twice, three times a night. Yeah. Yeah. I ain't heard that story, man. Yeah. That does. Cause he like, I think that's where I get that.

you know, left, right into the dribble and then the right into the hang. You know what I mean? He was a killer with that. He was a killer with that move. That was, that was like his signature patent move right there. Hey,

And y'all, yeah, y'all, like, man, when you see you guys in person, like, damn, they tall than I thought they were. You know what I'm saying? Like, to be that skilled and be that tall is like, it's crazy. You ever did that, P? Stay with somebody to learn something from them? Nah, I wish. I wish. No, I had a couple opportunities. I spoke about this a little bit with Colb. I had an opportunity to work out with Colb. We got to hear this. Man, I dropped the ball.

I dropped the ball on just because I was, I ain't gonna lie. I was nervous hearing the stories, hearing how he operates. I ain't gonna lie. I was nervous. Yeah. And I didn't take up the offer, but you know, after losing them, I was like, man, that's, that's probably one of my biggest regrets. Can you speak on for the viewer? Cause people now,

Not saying like, obviously it's like the microwave air. Can you speak? Cause we just talked about Kobe. Can you speak on, I got a Kobe shirt on. Can you speak on what it was like when you look down the other end and he comes wearing out for warmups and just like the electricity and the bill and like speak on that, that people don't talk about that enough, that, that effect enough with Kobe. Oh my God. It was, it was magnetic bro. Like, and yeah,

So this is how crazy it was for me. Obviously, like playing against them, my first time matching up against them, it was a wild moment. And then just watching him on the floor, it was almost like, man, it was like, should I be out here? Like, am I? I'm telling you, bro. Why am I on the court with this dude? But it was a game and it was, I think it was our last matchup against Cole that season, his last season. He was in Indiana.

And he had a horrible game, right? Not shooting it well. He's struggling. And you know, Lakers fans travel. So half the arena was Lakers. Maybe more than half in Indiana. It was Lakers fans. But he was struggling for...

80% of the game, right? Fourth quarter comes, it's a close game. It might have been like a three-point game, four-point game, and it was down to like four minutes. I don't know what switch flipped, but it was prime cold. He couldn't miss. He's shaking me just off a pivot step.

Like it was just vintage. And it was like, I can't nothing I can do right now is bothering him. Like I had him figured out. I'm like, I'm old. He's older than me. I got the youth. I'm I'm I'm out playing. I'm making them work. Yeah, I'm fighting for his possessions.

I'm like this like for me and I felt great. This is his last game. And I get to say I got the best of cold. Like regardless, this is 38, 39 year old cold. But it was like he really turned back the clock, bro. And everything that I had mapped out in those first three quarters, it was like he figured everything out.

And it was just, he was hitting and the crowd going crazy. Now it's like, we, it's like we playing in LA. Yeah. It was like a Lakers game. So it just to speak on his magnitude and how electrifying he was. And like, when you seen him on a court, it was, it was, I always was like,

I have to play well tonight. Like it was just some games you just get up for and you just automatically like I have to play. There is no playing mediocre. There is no playing nonchalant. Like every possession I want to, I want to be seen every possession. And that's, that's kind of, that's kind of just how like, you know, that's the level that he demanded when you stepped on that court with him. Every possession matters.

That's a fact. What about you, Jamal? I want to hear from your own words, like from your perspective. Yeah, because you got a lot of matchups against him. I got eight and 24, bro. Like he was so ridiculous. Like he was like, he was a machine. I played against Jordan when he was with the Wizards, but I never played against Jordan with the Bulls.

But I was like, this is what it had to be like. Like he was so broke. He was 0 for 8, 0 for 9. It didn't matter. He felt like he was closer to getting hot. He wasn't tripping off that. He's like, dog, I'm Kobe. Like you knew he was prepared. You knew he could embarrass you. You felt like...

Like your legs would feel like jello after a while when he starts going on one of his runs. And it was like he was taking everybody's heart. But I remember I played against him one time. And this is the first time he actually acknowledged me. It took seven years for him to even acknowledge my existence, bro. And I scored 30 in the second half in New York. And it was his game. He became the youngest to score 20,000. And he walked in and said, you had a pistol, huh? And he had never said hello, nothing. So he came and guarded me.

He ended up getting like almost hit 42 that game and they won the game. But at the end of the game, he gave me dad, touched my hands like, okay, my brother. And that was the first time we had an exchange. But I felt like, I felt like I had arrived in a different way. I'm like, damn, Kobe knows my name now. Like he acknowledged me because you know how we looked at Kobe in our era. And I'm only a few years younger, but I still look at him the same way. I read that article. Seven years. Seven years, bro. Because you was too close to Michael Jordan. That's why.

That's what it was. You know Kobe don't play that. That's what it was. Yeah, you want to be cool with MJ? Go wear his jersey. You ain't wearing Kobe's. You don't know me. Shit, you're going to be over there. You want to be over there? Go over there. You want to be with 23, not 24 at 8. You know? See, hey, I don't know if that's what it was or I just didn't get no normal minutes to my fourth year. He was like, I don't know you.

But he finally acknowledged me, and I was happy about that. He said you were shooting like a pistol. Yeah, that's what he said. You're hot as a pistol. I'll never forget that, bro. Yeah. Shout out Bing, man. Shout out Bing. Jamal, I heard another story, and I'd like for you to give some context. But we had Ron Artest on the show last season for Story Mode, and he shared some stories.

about U2 in the early 2000s, but there was an article that Sam Smith wrote back in 2003 that Metta World Peace wore a headband to honor you as a protest

against the head coach who wouldn't play you. Can you explain to us what was going down in that moment? How awesome is that? That's a real homie right there. That's a real homie. First off, Ron was one of my favorite teammates, bro, because Ron had that DMX. Like, he'd be cool if PG knows this and y'all know this. He'd be cool, and then Ron would just go somewhere else. But we used to play one-on-one every single day after practice, just young dudes just playing one-on-one.

And he was so strong and can move his feet. And he was so athletic. And I'm a skinny dude. So I had to try to use my quickness against him. But I would like to think, I know it made me better. I like to think it made him, you know, have to at least try because he was such a good defender. And he was so strong. But that was my dude. But he was always like holding it down. We bonded. You know, it was all good. But I remember one practice with him. He was like, Ma, I'm going hard today, son. I'm going hard today. I'm like, what's up, bro? He's like, I'm going hard today. Watch this, Ma.

So everything he's doing, he's f***ing up practice. He's L-bombing people. Yeah.

He did this like five times, bro. Till Tim Floyd finally was like, man, what is all this? He said, ah! Screaming his face. Bro, bro. He was like from another. He did it because he signed like a 10-day guy. It wasn't even nobody a threat to him. But that was raw. Like, bro, he went and worked at Circuit City in the off time. I'm like, bro. We know that story. Yeah, like, bro, that's my guy, bro. I love that dude. Yeah.

Oh, that was funny he told that story. I love hearing this though. You're right, right, right. You got to. I love hearing this though. Pia confirms it. Like he really did work at Circuit City. Jerry Krause found out about it. He was the one like, no, Ron, this is embarrassing to the organization. You can't be working here. He said he worked there for what? Three days, he said, right? Yeah. It was something like that because he wanted a discount. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Hey, did he tell you guys when he first got traded from Chicago, he was in Indiana, he was driving home to sleep in his own bed in Chicago? I think he did say that. I think he did say that. He was taking... Yeah, I think he did say that. Yeah, that's a fact. So obviously, you spoke about the relationship with MJ. And you got a call from Tim Grover that MJ actually wanted to meet you. What was that moment like? Because I got a chance to meet MJ and that was...

It was a surreal moment. Like it was again, as being around Colby and seeing him, you know, in person, seeing MJ was even more magical. It was, it was, you know, for me, you know, in basketball, it's a basketball. God,

It was surreal to me. What was that moment like for you when it happened? My dad had told me, like, during the draft, he's like, man, MJ like you. I'm like, what? Dad, you don't know Jordan. Like, what are you talking about? You don't know Jordan. So he tells me, and Tim Grover, I'm in Chicago, and he's like, yo, MJ said you could meet him. I'm like, what? It's 6 in the morning. I'm like, what? Man, I took off down there so fast. I got downtown in probably 30 minutes. I get there like 6.30, whatever it was, 6.20.

And I walk in, it's just us three in the weight room. And I can't stop looking at him. And obviously it's just us three, but I'm not even talking because I don't want to ruin his workout. He's talking in between sets or whatever. And he's like, yeah, man, I've liked your game. He's like, this summer we can work out. And I'm like, okay. All right, cool. Game's out. I call everybody back home. I leave at like seven. It's five o'clock on the West Coast, so nobody's up. I go back to practice. Tell them I just met Jordan. And it was crazy. So the summer comes.

And now this is what I've never told. So I'm going to tell you guys, the summer comes, everybody talks about how we were on the same team. Actually, the first day I played against him and my team won and he was pissed. Like he wouldn't sat in the corner. He was pissed. Then after that, Grover calls me. They were playing at two. And you know, young play, you got to work out your team first. So I'm up and I'm up working off the bulls. And I'm like, yo, what's up? He's like, get down here. I'm like, I thought we weren't starting till two. He's like, man, get down here. MJ's not starting the game till you get here. He's waiting on you.

I'm like, oh, shit. All right. So from that moment on, we never lost for two straight summers, bro. Like Beyonce Jay-Z's there. We're playing against Penny. We're playing against Stephon Marbury. We're playing against Paul Pierce. Like everybody's loaded. It was the UCLA runs in Chicago. You know what I'm saying? Like the Space Jam runs that he was doing to come back in Chicago. So I saw everybody. Matter of fact, even Charles Barkley came.

Because he was thinking about coming back at that time with MJ. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, Chuck was there. What's your role during that type of game? I got to ask, like, you got Michael Jordan on your team now, like, and you like to score. So are you like, you know, just –

giving it to him and watching him do his thing. Like, what was it like? When was it your time to score? How did that dynamic work just in open run between you two? That's a great question, Dallas, because I came in as a point and I'm playing with Jordan. So I really, and it's so weird. There's probably two or three times in my life where I felt my game, like jump up like a level or two. And that was one of those times. And I was playing off of him. He's the guy, but I literally, I don't know for a fact, but it felt like,

I hit 80% of my shots off of him that summer. Like I felt my game going to a whole nother level. And it was making its way around the thing. Like, man, that little Bulls guard, cause I hadn't done shit yet. Like, man, that Bulls guard can go. I'm telling you that Bulls guard can go.

But I'm playing off of him, right? And so I remember one time I threw a full court. I'm like, oh, as soon as I let it go, I'm like, oh, shit, I threw that too far. Man, this man at 40 years old, he jumped up with one hand. Yeah. He dribbled the ball and dunked it with one hand. I was like, oh, shit. Like, it looked like some bulls. I'm like, oh, this is crazy. Yeah.

But he was, bro, he was so cold. I went to his house. I played with him there. Like he showed me around his house. Like he really, he really like was invested in me. He tried to trade for me. Yeah. He even got my doctor for my ACL surgery.

Like he's the one that told me to go get it. Yeah. He told me I went to Alabama because that's where he was at playing baseball. Dr. Andrews. This before he was Dr. Andrews, as we know him. He did my surgery. Yeah. Look at that. Michael Jordan is CP helping people out. Helping people out. Yeah. Michael Jordan, bro. So he was just go. I have his first and last pair of shoes signed to me that he wore against the Bulls and last pair he wore the following year. So I got two pairs he signed for me.

Then he picked me to be in a commercial with him. Crazy, bro. Yeah, that's crazy. So, yeah, I got to ask this. So how was that, that commercial where you got to be young MJ? How was that? Bro, that's not even – like you dream about playing in the NBA. You dream about meeting Michael Jordan. You don't dream that the goal is going to pick you to play the younger him. Like where do you dream that at? You know what I'm saying? Like that's crazy. So my agent hit me. He was like, yo, MJ, when should you be in a commercial? I'm like, what? He's like, yeah. So we shot at the United Center.

I was only there probably four hours for my part. He was there all day. And the director's name was Joe something. He directed Space Jam. He was like, okay, now go dunk. And MJ was like, no, JC, don't do all that dunking shit, man. Get some out of that. So he got it for real. So I'm like, all right. So I'm like, yo, am I playing like you or playing like me? He's like, just play.

So if you go back and watch that commercial with Slow Dice, you can see my little skinny arm, little peanut head. And I'm like, yo, I got that. And he's like, you got what? You reach, I teach. And now we're just going off the cuff, just hooping. And that's how they did the commercial, bro. And I got my Jordan. They gave me Jordan 1s. I had a whole uniform on. P, I'm going to send you guys a couple pictures you can see behind the scenes from that. Yeah.

Yeah, I would love to check that out. Was it more of a one on one? Did y'all actually get time to like play one on one and it just turned into great content for the commercial? That's exactly what it was because I'm like, what's my lines? Like I didn't have no lines or nothing. He's like, just play, just play. And we're just talking, just play.

Yeah, so that was it. So it was it was this that when I when I fly by, well, I'm really trying to block a shot. I'm nervous, of course, but there's nothing there's nothing up there. I'm like, OK, like, so, yeah, it was real. Hey, I love that. Like him, him and Cole, they just had a different level of shit talking.

Like him saying it like you flying by. There's nothing like I jump for a cold pump fake and he tells the bench like check them for feathers. Who thinks of that? Who thinks of that, bro? Like those two, those two, I've never seen like just the like how magnetic and how like, man, they were they were they're different, bro. Like just totally, totally like they have a different glow around them.

They have a different glow, bro. Exactly. Exactly. I want to talk about another legend. You were a part of a six-player trade in 2004 that landed you with the Knicks to play for Isaiah Thomas at the time. You even wore, I see, the number 11 to honor him. What was it like playing for who I would imagine was your idol? What was that like playing for Isaiah?

And so you remember, you know, Zeke's from Chicago. I get drafted to the Bulls. The next year I go watch the Chicago pre-draft camp and we talk for three hours at the pre-draft camp. First time we ever really met. I'm like, damn, I'm talking to one of my heroes. Like people see my behind the back. I got it from him. He's the first person I see like sit down in a chair and go behind his back. Before it was like the long behind the back that they were doing back in the day.

So when I was a free agent, he was literally, you know, you can call at 9 p.m. on the West or 12 a.m. He was literally, they called a 901. He was the first person to call. I'm like, damn, everything you told me three years ago, we talked for three hours. You meant it. Like, that's crazy. So.

To play for him, bro, was like... I just talked to him today, by the way. But it was like... I know my grandma's in heaven smiling because that was one of her favorite players. We would see him on TV and she's like, oh, he's just so cute. And I'm like, damn, I actually got to meet you. Like, I feel like I'm living a dream, bro. That's how I've always just remained so, like...

in awe of everything that's happened. I was never jaded. I was always stuck in the moment because I'm like with my heroes. You know what I mean? So yeah, like playing for him, bro, it was a different fuel. I'm playing New York when you want to put on a show. But your hero, one of your heroes signed you. He believes in you enough that like he's bringing you to his team to be a centerpiece. Like, yeah, that was different, bro. It was absolutely different for sure. I got to follow up. I got to follow up to Zeke, but you brought up you get in that behind the back

From him. You have a move of your own with the crossover. Where did you test that out? When did you know that was going to work? How did that move come about? I was 16 and I was playing the pro-am. The pro-am you played in, which is now mine, was Doug Christie's.

And my first four games, I scored eight points combined. They locking me up. This is when you can hand check. I'm playing against overseas dudes and Brian Parker. Shout out to him. He's one of those dudes that locked me up to the point I was thinking about. He's like the Tony Allen. I'm thinking about it three weeks later. Like, damn, he locked me up. So I make the, I make the all-star game a month later. When Doug Christie rolls his ankle, I go off on a tear. I have like 30 the rest of the way. I make, there's all-star game. I make it. It's me and him one-on-one. And I,

It's coming down like, damn, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? And I do the move. He goes past that Nick jersey. He goes to the door and I lay it up. I lay it up and I hold the wall up. It's like a wall underneath the basket. I'm like, mom, what I do? She's like, oh, no, you did something, something and something. And I said, oh, I could I could do that. I could do that. I could do that. And I'll tell you this. And this is breaking news.

That was a shortened version of the move. There's a player in the league right now. I showed the full version of that move too. Who's going to do it at some point. When beyond. When be. I'm not confirmed. We got that one. I'm just telling you. Hey, I work with a lot of players now. I'm just saying that. I showed that move. I can't even see him pulling that off or what that would look like. If he did it, that would be something totally different. Because he could probably do it from the three-point line and then dunk it.

can do it where somebody's really running to the three-point line. Exactly. I was just going to ask, too. I had asked Drew the other day. We had Drew on our show, and I was asking him, can you teach somebody how to play defense the way you play defense? And for you on the offensive end, you just said when a basketball gets in your hand, it's like a part of you. And that's not everyone. You have a gift.

So when you're sitting with somebody like Wimby, yeah, you might be able to show them how to do it. But I'm sure you guys can both agree. There's something you got to have a certain feel and it is a gift. So do you think that you can teach someone like Wimby to have that feeling?

tempo, pace, cadence with the ball, or is it something that you're just born with? I think it's more towards you're born with it, but you can teach some of it. You know what I'm saying? Like, Jackie can teach me to say a line.

And I may say it exactly how he envisioned it, but if you have him say that same line, he's going to do it. He's going to put a little extra texture twang on it to really bring it. That's what I think happens with a basketball. I can teach it very well. And now I've learned that about myself, especially coaching kids. I can teach it, but it's that extra little feel like Kyrie's another one, right? So he, he's another one. We may do a move. Somebody else may do a move who can really dribble. And if they lose or if they get stopped, they'll stop.

Us getting stopped is going to put us into a whole different mood just naturally. We can't really teach that part of it. It's that improv. It's that improv. You can teach 90% of it.

And I got to ask this again. I should have asked this a while ago because P was saying like he heard you were out there hooping. You were a hooper. And there's a fine line between going outside and using your imagination and playing at the park and hooping and having that feel. And then there's another fine line of putting up 500 jump shots from each corner and from each elbow. So when you're sitting down with these kids that have aspirations of making it to the league,

And they're not as gifted as you. Not everyone has that gift. Are you more of a preacher of, you know, you got to be hooping or you got to be working out here on the court? Where do you fall under? Are you in the middle somewhere?

I think you always have to hoop, but I think you have to work because you got to sharpen your skills so much where it takes the thought out. You can withstand missing eight in a row because you know you just made 500 jumpers. It's only a matter of time before I can get eight in a row. So I think with me, like when I'm working with guys, kids,

It's not like a general palette of what they're doing. I'll go as soon as I hear a name, like for Wimby example, I went right to, okay, let me hit coach pop coach pop. How do you see him fitting in what you guys are doing? Cause I don't want to waste Wimby's time. I don't want to have him doing stuff. That's not going to fit in their system. You know what I'm saying? So everybody's different. Um,

Yeah, there's general things that work anywhere. One, two, dribble, pull up. You know, I think hesitation, pull up, dribble, catch and shoot, all those things work anywhere. But I like to really get into the subject and see how they want to get better and how, you know, they're trying to improve and work directly with them. But there is certain things that...

You have to just get reps up. You have to get reps up. So it takes the thought out. That's all we're really trying to do, right? We're trying to make it so it's as natural as walking. Like everything we're doing is just natural. But you can't just do it against cones. You have to do it like I have certain moves that I know only work better on one side of the court.

But I had to play against people to realize that, oh, okay, shake and bake don't work as good on the right side. It works more on the left side in the middle because it gives it more room to react to that side. But for the right side, I got to make a tougher layup fall. You know what I mean? So certain things you put in certain places. Both are needed, though. What's your favorite? What's the name of your favorite move you like doing, JC? Like the one that you know against somebody every time. What is that called?

Well, I think... I know. Go ahead. What is it, B? What is it? That tween behind the back. Yeah. That tween behind the back is serious. See, but P, that tween behind the back, I had to realize when I was in high school, it worked all the time. As I got to the pros, I'm like, okay, it works better with a screen and roll because you have to make them think that you're going one way to come another just for them to catch up and you're really going back the way you came from. So certain areas and certain things, but...

For me, I think the 2K size, I think they call it, that's my foundation. Because if I have the ball, right, and I dribble out my left, I can hang dribble left. I can hang dribble left right crossover. I can hang dribble left low vibe. So that's three moves. If I put the ball in my other hand, I have the same three moves. So that's six moves from one starting point that looks the same. So it always gives me options.

That's my foundation. I may hop into it, hop into it, then go. But besides, you know, we're going to talk about your son, Lil J, but right now in the NBA, who you think is similar to you right now that got all that, what you used to do? I think they're getting rid of those players, to be honest with you. Like, you got to be like a superstar like P where you have freedom, excuse me, to play like that. I think imagination, Kyrie Wise. LaMelo's one.

You just said imagination. Whoever's really imaginative, because I never wanted to be in a box, and I was never scared to do my shit in front of the world. I'm like, man, I waited my whole life to be up here. They're going to take me out anyway. I'm about to go out there. You're going to remember me. I'm going to go out on my terms. Bro, hey, I ain't going to never fit in the analytics, on the VROPs, the

I'm going to be low, but you're going to remember when you saw me play. Like you're going to remember that part of it. Memories and moments, bro. So for me, I was going to have a ball with it. Jamal, just to touch on it real quick. You had mentioned that you got the opportunity to work with Wimby and he had some very nice things to say about you. And I quote, he understands Wimby.

the player more than any coaches I've worked with before. That's an awesome compliment. So kudos to you. But can you walk us through the backstory of how you guys even connected? Yeah, the first time we connected, I was calling a game.

And I said, man, I'm watching the games. One of my first big games call. And I said, man, he had one of his runs where he blocked the shot, got a steal, got a dunk, all the same, you know, three possessions. I said, man, Wimby Young was the creative player that creative players would create. And it was like, what? I said, he's the player that the KDs and the bronze, if they were playing 2K, they would create somebody at 7'5 that could shoot threes and run. But after the game, I'm walking out and he's lifting weights.

And he drops his weights and he comes over and he shakes my hand. All he did is he puts his hand down like he just wanted advice. I'm like, man, you're doing all the right stuff. Just keep working hard. I was blown away. I never met him. So then that goes to we have him on the show. I'm like, yo, can you do the Crawford Shake and Bake? He's like, yeah, my trainer taught me that. So then that was in January. February comes at All-Star and I see him and I'm rushing through the story a little bit. February, I see him at All-Star and they're like, yo, Wendy's on the court. He's like, show me a move.

But when he throws me the ball, all the rookie sophomores, all the cameras come over. I'm like, oh, I can't show him one of these unearthed moves right now. Let me just do some freestyle stuff. You know what I'm saying? Because everybody's watching. Okay, boom. Here comes May. And I get a text from his agent. He's like, yo, can we come out to Seattle? Vic, you know, could you spend time with him and work? I'm like, what's he trying to get better at? He's like, man, his hand was – I'm like, oh, I could do that. Cool. Cool.

So then fast forward to June, I reach out to pop. I'm like, yo, what do you, what would you guys, you know, how you see it fit me and pop by on the phone. It was perfect. And then I, me and my son flew out there. And then from there, bro, and I won't say everything, but the way he works and the way he thinks, uh,

if he stays healthy, he will be one of the very best players. I mean, like top five best players ever because his maturity level is totally like he read 50 books last year. He didn't even tell me that step, but the way he prepares and stuff is like, it's something that we would say with Kobe and Michael and LeBron and those, you know what I'm saying? Like the greats and the greats, the way he thinks the game is ridiculous. I'm like, there's no way you're 20, bro. Like he,

He's something totally different. So he's got it all figured out. Yes, he does. He does. So, Jamal, we have a segment that we use with every guest and we call it chat PGT. And in this segment, we're going to quiz you and PG on your respective careers and see who gets the correct answer. You or chat GPT.

So this week's edition of chat PGT is sponsored by MetaQuest expand your world. And the first question that we have for this segment is what does chat GPT considered to be Jamal's greatest scoring performance?

When I scored 52 against the Knicks because I scored 42 straight points without a miss when I was playing for the Knicks, playing against the Heat. Okay, so one for one. We've been having some good – the guests have been killing it lately. So no pressure. No pressure. Drew got them all right. No pressure. You won for one. Jamal Crawford's greatest scoring performance came on January 26, 2007 when he scored 52 points in a game for the New York Knicks against the Miami Heat at Madison Square Garden. I'm going to cut it off right there.

So the next question is, what Jay-Z song does ChatGPT consider to best represent Jamal Crawford? He got a million songs. This is tough. What more can I say since I went out with 51? That's what I was thinking. Off the bench.

What more can I say? Okay, so ChatGPT has, show me what you got perfectly encapsulates Crawford's combination of skill, confidence, and gentlemanship, making it a fitting anthem for his basketball legacy. That's a tough question, though. Drew has like an album. That's a couple different ways to answer that one, but that's a good answer. That's a tough one.

That's a wide range right there. Dammit, Drew, getting all of them right. All right, go ahead. Okay, and P, I need your answer on these next couple ones. Thank you. According to chat GPT, what would Jamal average in today's NBA? And I want both your answers, but P's going to give an answer in here too. I'm going to say 25 easily. 25 easily. I mean, JC, man, he was 40% from three-point line. We shooting.

53 is a game. He, he 25. Is this starting or coming off the bench? That's a, that's, yeah, that's a good point. If he started in 35. Okay. Six man role. I think chat GBT's answer is within a six man role, but he's got 25 Jamal. What let's what number you got for? I agree with PG, but I think,

I think chat BGT got me a little lower. They're going to say 22. Okay. Okay. So chat GPTs answer modern context adjustment, factoring in more threes pace and favorable spacing. It's reasonable to project Crawford averaging 22 to 25 points per game. Off the bench. I see. Okay.

Again, both of these, we're going to get answers from both of you. The next question is, who would have won the NYC blackout game that never happened? Team Jay-Z or Team Fat Joe? P, you're first. We got to go back in the teams, too. Yeah, I mean, Shaq was on Team Jay-Z, right? Yep, I believe so. Who going to guard Shaq? I mean, I know. Y'all was what, Team Fat Joe? Shaq at the park, though, we might be fouling. Might be. Yeah.

No, I feel like we might have seen a version of Shaq because Shaq liked to showboat and perform and entertain too. So we might have seen a version of Shaq that was crazy. Yeah. Like bringing the ball down. We might have seen a crazy Rucker Shaq.

So I'm going to go team Jay-Z. I'm going to go team Jay-Z. Jamal, who you got? You know I'm going team Jay-Z because of Shaq. Even if you're fouling him at that point, that's going to be plus threes. If he makes a free throw, he makes it. But we're definitely getting two points every single time down. I'm going team Jay-Z. I don't think the park would have liked it either. Like just fouls every time down? Like, come on. No.

Yeah, they're going to boot Team Fat Joe for filing. Chat, GPT's answer. In a close high-energy game, Team Jay-Z would likely have the edge thanks to Shaq's dominance in this year's challenge of players like T-Mac and LeBron. Hold up, man. Now Chat, GPT ain't getting me no love because T-Mac. That's cool. You caught it straight right there. You did. You did. You for sure did.

There we go. Hey, well, he cleaned it up. He what? Three. We went three, three for four. You're definitely did well. Now, that was awesome. Appreciate that. That's a wrap on chat. PGT presented by MetaQuest. Jackie, it's your time to shine. Bunky, what you got for this week for the two minute report?

Appreciate it, P. This week's edition of the Two Minute Report is presented by Buffalo Wild Wings Go. Order wings for takeout and delivery today. So, Jamal, we're going to do it a little different today on this one, man. This week's edition of the Two Minute Report is a personal one, okay, for you. And I just want to set the stage for you to highlight

The one and only your mini me, your son. Okay. Who's going to come up. Cause I seen his highlights and the boy is off the chain. What has it been like watching your son thrive in a game? You love so dearly, man, man. The fact that he loves it like that first, like I was going back to pictures when I was tweeting, when he was five and I'm like, man, this dude's obsessed with the game. He walked up to Colby time. I was playing one-on-one, you know? So he's always been like this kid. So I've always thought long-term with him, like he,

Honestly, because when he was playing up and he was like, oh, he's not strong enough. He's just catching and shooting. I'm like, no, he's building all parts of his game. You just won't see him right now because he's playing a long game. And now, you know, some of it's coming to fruition. He can dribble and pass as good as he can shoot. And he's competitive. Like he loves the game. So I think the sky's the limit for him. He loves to work. He loves to get better. PG is one of his favorite players. Like it's dope that people are causing inspiration, bro. Like it's really like,

Really dope to see it all come full circle and to know that you'd be like, you're detecting ejecting the next generation with fuel to keep going. Is there anything, because of course he's your son that you teach him that you, that you haven't taught anybody else, like certain dribbles, like skills and stuff to take out there when he on the court. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Actually like just different angles, different footwork to get to stuff, not just traditional things. And like,

Like we're even working on, I'll tell y'all, we're even working on hang dribbles off one leg. Like do a hang dribble like you do a pull up, a hang dribble going to right to a one leg shot. Like so it catches the defense off guard. So just so many different things. And then certain things I already have in my mind. I'm checklist. OK, when he gets 16, we'll be doing that. And then some things he'll surprise me. I'm like, oh, you're already there because I didn't think you would get that to 16. So our conversations are different. We watch a lot of film and he's just he's a sponge. So it's really dope to be part of the journey.

Man, he going to be unpredictable. Yeah. He better at his age than you was when you was that age? Jack, what's crazy is we said that ever since he started playing, he's literally beat me every year. And I'm going to tell him when he's not because, bro, when I was 16, I was killing pros, bro. So in the next two years, you got to make the push. But he's above pace. I'm going to give you a story, and I won't take too long, but Devin Booker, and I would never ask my son to work out with a pro, but Book was in town. He's like, yo.

I want to get in the gym with a young fellow. And they got in the gym for an hour and a half, books trainer, all books workout. And I thank book for life for this.

And he was keeping up with Book doing stuff he was doing. And Book's looking like, what? So Book's like, man, you come to Drake concert with me. And then Book put him in his Nike spot. So it's just, it's dope, bro. Yeah, I've seen like the change in him since then. Have y'all seen his son's highlight? Have y'all seen him? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. I definitely have. It's dangerous. He's going to be a problem. He can go. He can go. And I definitely, I would love to get in the gym with him this summer. Man.

And don't say that. Just lock in with them. PG and Lee. PG and Lee. Eric Abadu is going to be playing in the background. PG and Lee. We can keep it on repeat. PG and Lee. PG and Lee. We can keep it on repeat.

You got my word, OG. You got my word, OG. I would love to lock in with him this summer. I would love to get some running with him this summer. Thank you so much. I promise you he'll be ecstatic. He'll do everything you say. I got to ask. Y'all playing one-on-ones? Has he got you yet? Nah, he'll tell you he's got me, but he ain't really got me. Like, he ain't got me. Nah, I'll tell you when he gets me. He ain't got me yet. I still got another couple years, I think.

So it's more him thinking like, I think I'm close. Yeah, I think I'm close. I think I'm close. For him, he sees the progression. He sees he's getting better. Where he at right now, Jay-Z? Where he at? Is he practicing right now? Where he at? Nah, we about to go. You want to see him? You want me to get him? Yeah, right here on the camera, man. Right here. Let's see little Jay-Z, man. Yeah, hold on real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to get him in here real quick. Y'all getting blessed podcast P, man. He's in his room. I'm about to come. Hey, come to the office real quick, please. Real quick. Real quick. All right, bye. Let us see little JC. I'm going to put these headphones on. He's about to come in here in one second. Yeah, but no, we working tonight, bro. Like he's obsessed with the work. He's obsessed with getting better.

Like, he loves it. He's obsessed with it. And that's the part you love because you're not pushing towards nothing. But it's also the Chico. Come here. Look at him. What's up, little Jay-Z? Good to see you on the camera. Get down. There you go, little bro. There you go. What's up, y'all? Man, can we get some work in next summer? For sure. Hey, tell them about the song you put on. We play it one-on-one. When you put on the Didn't You Know song, the Badu. Just wait for it. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. A year ago. All my friends used to play that. Like, every day. Didn't you know? Didn't you know? Get in the camera a little more, JC. Tell your daddy to get up out the chair. Tell your daddy to get up out the chair. You sit on down. There you go.

Y'all ask some questions. Oh, man. Nah, so you getting pops in the ones? For sure. For sure. Yeah, see, you got some conflicting answers. I'm getting him in the ones. That's what's up, man. Nah, I for sure want to lock in and get some work with you this summer, man. So whatever it is, I come to Seattle, maybe get a pro-am game. OG, if I can get a roster spot.

He said if he could get a Rochester spot. Man, come on, man. That's a telemaster. He's running a real park when he comes through. Nah, it was love last time. Nah, for sure. We for sure got a lock in. I seen your game, Lil JC. You amazing, man. To be your age, the things you doing. Keep your pat on the back, man. You got a good father and lucky to have one like that to teach you all that extra skills and stuff. So keep it up, man. I can't wait to see you in college and the NBA. Yes, sir. Stay hungry. Yes, sir.

Hmm.

Get out of here, man. That's love. Get out of here. Yeah, we was the first one to have a little JC on the pod. No, I'm kidding. You won't believe this. I appreciate it, man. That's inspiration, bro. Those moments are priceless. So I thank y'all. For real, for real. Nah, we want to thank you, OG. This episode has been awesome. We don't want to take up too much of your time, but we appreciate you blessing Podcast P, bro. This was awesome. Hell of an interview. And...

I'm going to definitely lock in and get your number. If I don't, if I'm not updated, like I said, whatever you need from me, I definitely want to help Youngin out, whether it's getting some work in, I'll come there.

I'm in L.A. in the summers. If y'all in L.A., let's make it happen. We'll come wherever you tell us, for sure. Also, real shit, I watch all y'all's episodes. I saw the last one you did with Drew, with DeAndre doing everybody. Y'all are killing it, bro. The culture needs more of this because it's light. You still get in depth. You still bring the viewer in to the subject you're talking to. A lot of people don't do that. A lot of it's spam. You guys are killing it, bro. I appreciate it. For real, for real.

We appreciate that. And to piggyback off that, I just love because forever it always seems...

there's no there's like a a level of respect lost between the guys that played before us and the guys that are playing currently there's always seems to be some sort of some sort of feud between or disconnect right disconnection between the two so it's it's it's great you know what i mean and and that's why i love story mode one of my favorite times of doing the podcast is getting to share these stories and this interactions with people that we've all looked up to like yourself so

Big salute to you, OG. Keep doing what you're doing as well. We watching you doing your thing.

And appreciate you again on the pod, bro. I got to come back, bro. I got to come in. Maybe it's in person or something. I got to come back whenever y'all want. Please. Please do. We know you got 10 jobs now. You over there commentating shit, too. We know you out there working. Coach him, man. He want it all. Come on. Not to mention fatherhood. You're a great dude, though, J.C. Ever since I've known you, man, going to the games, you've always been the same. You're the best, man. I appreciate it. Appreciate you. Appreciate it, bro. Thank you.

ATL 2 coming out. Come on. Y'all heard it here. First, right here. Got to go down.