#JusticeforDennis: the Gods and Casual Cruelty... KAOS Takeover w/ Christie Vogler
01:34:53 Share

Oh hi there, Liv here, speaking from the future. If you are keen to support this podcast, if you are enjoying the episodes as you find them and you want to listen ad-free, check out the Oracle Edition on Patreon. It didn't exist way back when these early episodes were recorded, but I'm telling you about it now. You can get all 700 and counting episodes of

of Let's Talk About Myths, Baby ad-free along with so much more at patreon.com slash mythsbaby or via the link in the podcast description. Thanks and happy listening.

What if I told you that right now, millions of people are living with a debilitating condition that's so misunderstood, many of them don't even know that they have it. That condition is obsessive compulsive disorder, or OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the Chief Clinical Officer of NoCD. And in the 25 years I've been treating OCD, I've met so many people who are suffering from the condition in silence, unaware of just what it was. OCD can create overwhelming anxiety and fear around what you value most, make you question your identity,

beliefs, and morals, and drive you to perform mentally and physically draining compulsions or rituals. Over my career, I've seen just how devastating OCD can be when it's left untreated. But help is available. That's where NoCD comes in. NoCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for obsessive compulsive disorder.

Our licensed therapists are trained in exposure and response prevention therapy, a specialized treatment proven to be incredibly effective for OCD. So visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15-minute call with our team. That's nocd.com. Hey, Kristen, how's it trackin'? With Carvana Value Tracker. What else? Oh, it's trackin'.

In fact, value surge alert trucks up 2.5%, vans down 1.7%. Just as predicted. Mm-hmm. So we gonna... I don't know. Could sell, could hold. The power to always know our car's worth. Accelerating, isn't it? Tracking. Always know your car's worth with Carvana Value Tracker. Hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, baby. Hold it.

Hey, listeners. This is Let's Talk About Myths, baby. And this is your host, Christy Vogler, back again. I am here, though, for now. For now, yes. And we're going to kick you out a lot sooner this time, too. Yeah. Hopefully. We will hop off forever. But who else is here? Hi. Is this Harmias? I'm here, too. Yeah, Mikayla's here, too. Hello. Hi.

Yes, I'm going to need help shoving Liv out the door this time. Oh, I'm so happy to help. I asked for some reinforcements. I'm very glad to have you here, Mikayla. I was given power and now I'm going to use it. Yeah, Mikayla has the power to kick me out. Giving up that kind of control. Yes. And like, I really want to do like a little Zeus hand flick. Be gone, Liv. And...

Which should maybe give you all a little hint about what today's discussion is about. We are doing another pop media Greek retelling of...

And I'm so excited. It's so good. I'm so excited too. I love it because the context of this TakeOver episode is so different, but also so similar, which is just to bring back to the epic TakeOver that Christy did recently. But I have this, what I now understand to be...

what is almost certainly pathological demand avoidance, which is that once I have like one to 200 strangers on the internet telling me that I have to consume a piece of media, my body absolutely shuts down and it becomes utterly impossible because the pressure is so strong. And so in this case, but in this case, I have already watched episode one of chaos and I found it delightful. I rewatched it today so that we can talk about that before I kick myself out. And I am excited to watch it. I'm like,

absolutely going to watch it and I'm also excited that I don't have the pressure of having to talk about it unless I absolutely want to. Yeah. And I have to say, I've talked about this show a bunch of times already and if there's not something else to talk about, I'd be amazed. There's one season of this, eight episodes. There's so much to talk about. It's so good. So I'm really excited to get

get to talk to you guys about it again. And I, so I had one other clip I was going to play really quick because a friend of the pod for both our pods is Joel Christensen. And he said something really cool from his, from your episode with him about, is it story life? Story life. So, so this is what Joel had to say, and I'm going to take it to heart and say we have so much to unpack.

unpack, but also interpret. So here we go. And the number one thing, and this is the thing I didn't get to, is we talked earlier about how when each of us read a story, we create our own blend. You should read your things in groups and talk to people about it. Because when you talk about stories of people, you hear their interpretations and you create a composite blend together. And that creates a new sense of community.

And so in this day and age, we're sitting behind computers, we're doing things alone. Go to a coffee shop, make a book group, make a Zoom book group, right? Talk about movies together because that's how you create community. So here we are creating community. I love that. I also love...

There's an episode that we've recorded but hasn't come out yet with Joel because I love Joel. He can come on the show anytime he wants. I'm trying to not make just the Joel show. But every time we have a topic, I'm so down. But we recorded one where Makayla is heavily in it about the Iliad and that comes up again about talking. Sharing that with community. So I'm glad you played that and also it is distinctly weird to hear my own voice come back and just recording again while I'm here again. And also, yeah, my goal...

But that episode too, at the beginning, he stumped me so much that I was like, I don't know what to say because it's so science-y. And I trust you, but I don't know what to say to keep you going. And so I can feel that where those... Science. The only time he's ever baffled me. Hey, you all brought it home wonderfully. Thank you. When that's so true, talking about it is so real. And when it comes to...

I mean, I'm going to have trouble not making this one, me being the host, because it's so normal for me, particularly because I just rewatched Chaos and it's so delightful. But there's so much to talk about. There is. And I've only seen the first episode, so I can't even imagine what you guys can get into. Yeah. Oh, man. And specifically, we're going to actually do two parts. So today we're going to just focus on the gods. And then we have a really fun guest planned to talk about the mortals. So again, tons to unpack here. So much to talk about that I'm really excited about.

I also wanted to go back, like, Lilith, I don't remember if you remember this, but you came on our podcast, Movies We Dig, to talk about Spartacus, the Gannicus season. Yes. And you gave us some intel about Chaos because its production was kind of... Oh, yeah. It struggled. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

And so I was what people were sending me just this singular image of the word chaos and Netflix. I had been getting news about that. People learning about it for years before it ever came out. And I thought it would never see the light of day. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And so I remember you telling us that and they were like, maybe we won't watch it. Yeah. I was like, I think it's going to be shit. I also heard from somebody who was like, had worked with Netflix that like they thought it was also going to be shit because of the way Netflix had handled it. And so it's, I mean, it's disappointing, but not surprising that it's incredible and they canceled it.

Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's pretty par for the course for Netflix, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. And we talked about this in our live show, but like there are other creators talking about how they, people of color,

And other minority groups who had been pitching more shows like this and like these big streaming services were already saying no they were already anticipating, like, the kind of fascist takeover that is happening in our world.

And it's sad to think that that's going to start to be reflected in our entertainment as well because these kinds of stories aren't being picked up. So we're going to talk about it for years to come, even if there's never another season. And it's like I said before we started recording, but it's why chaos plays with mythology brilliantly and with a lot of like really deep knowledge of the sources and context and all the things that I want. I mean, again, seeing the first episode and I still think that's true.

And it got cancelled. Whereas, based on everything I've seen, and I'm willing to be open about it, but at this point, I've got the lowest hopes in the world, that Christopher Nolan got $250 million to make The Odyssey. It's the most he's ever been... His biggest budget movie ever. And...

So far, I think it's going to be straight up Western civilization, American propaganda. And he gets to make that chaos, which is clearly about like overreach and like authoritarianism and like all of that. The patriarchy. Surprise, surprise. Fighting against it. Yeah. Unsurprising. But...

At least we can talk about season one. Yes. Or episode one before I leave. Yeah. So I guess, you know, once we kick you out, me and Michaela will go a little bit more into our personal experiences with the show. But Liv, tell us about your limited experience with chaos.

Well, again, now I have seen episode one twice. I watched it. The problem was it came out for me at like a very bad time in my life where I was not capable of watching anything new, let alone something new that I was like, like, I just remember watching the first episode and I was like, this is great. And I am in such a bad place mentally that I can't watch something that is so good.

is so for me but which I like I'm not in a place to like to talk about it or like any of those things you know so it's just very bad timing but re-watching it again I was like oh no I remember like how excited I was and so I'm excited to go back but that's all to say I've seen episode one and I just I mean we said this in a clip that's gonna be on social media but like

Jeff Goldblum is the most perfect casting. Like to me, he's the antithesis of the Matt Damon casting, like where Matt Damon is the worst casting I've ever heard of in my life. Like truly, truly tragic. Um,

I think that Jeff Goldblum as this version of Zeus, because it's so specific to this version, right. Where they're also playing with Zeus as like a terrible guy. Who's also really enjoyable to watch. Like that's what Greek mythology is. Right. Like these terrible people who are so interesting to pay attention to. Yep. And I think that giving Jeff Goldblum, this kind of rain like is so perfect. And the music is really,

good. The needle drops. It just, the starting with money for nothing does something to my soul. And the dance that he does and the decor that they have done in Mount Olympus and the like all the little like

there's a lot of Ganymede vibes where they've got all these little ball boys. Yes. But they're all, they're, they're cup bearers, right? They're carrying around these jugs of water, like everywhere. And I'm like, you are just multiple Ganymede. Like it's, it's really so interesting. And like, Oh yeah, no, I mean, like, how did you feel though about his little like track suit, little matching track suit with the shorts, the shorts.

I mean, I just think it's, I really think it's some incredibly perfect, like, I can't even think of the words I want to, but like the costuming, the decor is not the word. But anyway, like, you know, the set, the design, the everything. The set design, the creator, Charlie Koval, said that they were actually inspired by Romeo and Juliet, the one that Leonardo DiCaprio's in. And it's like, oh. Yeah, you can see it.

The gardens that they're in, that's Villa d'Est in Tivoli, which is this amazing, beautiful garden. I was there last year. That is just, it's stunning. It's massive. It's huge. It has all these amazing water features. And I remember when I first saw it, I was like, oh, that's Villa d'Est. And I know exactly the vibe it's going. Because that was like, it was like a Pope's house or something. It was a big...

Yeah, but it was, oh my god, I was like, oh yeah, okay, the gardens, the villa, alright. It's so good, and I liked that I could both be ready for what I was pretty sure was going to happen, and then also ready for them to do anything weird, you know, if it came to it, but...

I was watching with my friend and like spoilers, but not actually spoilers for the first episode, because again, this is a Greek myth, but you know, we're, we're introduced to Orpheus and Eurydice and Eurydice is unhappy and wants to leave him. And I was like, she's going to die. And like, I was like, I'm like just pretty sure that she's going to die. Like, you know, and it's not going to be that they're not going to play with this idea of her leaving him. Like the whole, yeah. Like,

When Billy Piper comes in... Well, Cassandra's prophecy, right? Today's the day you leave him. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, nah. Like, okay, this is what's gonna happen. And then even just, you know, like, when he's, like, about to kill himself and then Dionysus is like, nah, like, there's another way. I was just...

Yeah, I was so ready for it. I love Killian Scott. I watched the Dublin murders like years ago and absolutely fell for him. And yeah, I'm really, I'm here for it. I'm here for it. And it's just very clever. And even like,

The opening, she's in the grocery store looking for stuff. And the packaging that they created, like one, the things that they show a close-up on. But one of the things that's behind her is like these cans of pop. And a whole series of them is just called Skilla. And that's the one I noticed offhand. But I'm just like the depth is really so good. Yeah. I'm here for it.

I want one last take. What's your take on Dionysus initially? Because I love Dionysus in this one. I do. I do love Dionysus. I'm ready to love him even more because I know I know how or I know generally that they're playing with things because I think Dionysus is, I mean, obviously so interesting, but there's lots of ways to go

With him. And I. The last time I've had like. Or encountered like a really really. Like modern take. Like very you know. Really playful kind of take. He was like this party god. But he sounded like a surfer. And like kind of a. Like a bit bro-y. And I just think like you're missing. The aspects of Dionysus. That are really far more interesting. And I'm getting the sense that. That that's not going to be missing.

Yeah. I, I, eventually if you ever get to listen to our, our live recorded episode with Amy, like we have a really fun discussion about Dionysus. So like, I got to watch it. If you ever have free time, live, listen to the thing that I put on my own podcast. Yeah, pretty much.

You know, one day. And his character is one of the ones that I'm most sad to not see what happens next. Is it cliffhanger-y? Is it really a bummer? It wraps up... We had a big discussion, me, Amy, and Lige, about

If we wanted to see the series continue or not, like ideally, yes, we'd love for the show to continue because it was just great. But also it's left open in a way that allows people, I think, to ask the same kinds of questions about.

you know, our place in the world and our actions in the world that Greek tragedy did thousands of years ago. And so like, we don't get to know what happens next. We can only guess and we can only,

you know, hope that it would go a certain way, fear it would go another and, and all that jazz. So like, you know, it's open to fan fiction, basically more reception, if you will. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I, I, I'm excited to keep watching. I'm really glad I watched it again. It was a real last minute thought. Like I, I was, I was just planning on riffing off of what I remember. And then at the last minute I was talking to my, the friend I live with and just literally like,

You can just watch it now. And we're like, okay, well, let me just like, we'll just stop everything and go watch this show. And absolutely no regrets. Watch it with your friends. Best way to watch it. So the second time. That's what I needed. Yeah. Yeah. Second time I watched it, it was at Camas at this conference and Lige was with me and my best friend, Sammy, who we all know each other. We all watched it together in the hotel room. Best experience. Like just like us reacting and like we're about halfway through it. We went to a conference presentation on chaos and,

And my friend Sammy's sitting next to me and like things are being said. I'm like, spoiler, I'm so sorry, Sammy. And she's like, and I could feel her like tense up. And she's like, no. And I'm like, I'm so sorry, Sammy. She's like, no, it's fine. I'll still watch it. I'm like, I know, but like. I know. I do know one spoiler that.

I won't say, but it makes it harder to know. Hashtag justice for Dennis is all we have to say. Yeah. And I don't even know the details. I just know to be aware. Just know he needs justice. If nothing else for a second season, it's for Dennis. Yeah. Yeah. Well...

I mean, maybe that's when I duck out and leave you guys. I was about to say, I think we should kick you out. You should go watch the rest of the season while Mikaela and I have a great time chatting about having already watched it. So happy you were here. Now leave. Fine, fine. I'll go. Justice for tennis. The gods and casual cruelty in chaos.

That was recorded in the lobby of Greek Hotel. All right. Well, now that Liv is gone, Michaela, can you tell me?

your experience with chaos yeah um so i watched it when it first came out which i'm trying to remember if that was last summer or the summer before time is came out like late last summer yeah okay really i yeah i remember binge watching it i believe i want to say i was at um

the boys place which is a place I house sit for a couple this couple with their three dogs and a lot of the time it's just me and the dogs just vibing and doing things and I'm pretty sure I just binge watched chaos when I was at their place and I just remember being like this is amazing I was just blown away by

by the adaption and the music choices and the characters and the representation in a way that like that was done in a way that like it's so close to my heart because representation for the sake of representation hurts me but just to see people who are people of colors and queer characters and transness well the transness and then um

the disability and that it was had nothing to do with their character. It just was warmed me so much where I was just like, Oh my God, this show is doing such beautiful, amazing things and treating people like people and playing with myth in this beautiful way. And I can't get over it. And then they cancel it. And I was like, okay, now it's truly, truly time for me to burn something to the ground. I am filled with rage. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of like we said earlier, like I explained how Liv had kind of initially we weren't excited. And then our guest who came to talk with us, Amy, she saw it and she's like, she emailed us in all caps. She's like, guys, let me come on your show and talk about chaos. We're like, OK. All righty. And we were very, very, very glad that we did that. And I...

At the time, it had just been released long enough, but, like, they hadn't announced a second season or anything. And I think we released in October of last year, and I was sitting there, I was like, if Netflix hasn't picked this up, despite, like, it isn't necessarily, like,

Everyone's watching it, but everyone who is watching it loves it. Absolutely loves it. And so if Netflix is silent at this point, I don't think they're going to pick it up. And I was really sad to see that I was right. And it's...

I think that's something really important to say up front here. It's like, you know, I've talked about this show multiple times now on podcast episodes. And I'm like, I'm going to do it again with whoever wants to talk to me about it. And it's like, girl, it's one season. And there's, as of right now, no future for it. So it's like, why should people care? And I'm like, you should care.

care about this show because it is groundbreaking both in terms of what it's doing with myth retellings and as you said Michaela like wonderfully like how it is just allowing people all people to be people like that they're what we would highlight in a lot of our popular media is being like the thing they must overcome to be

you know, not even a part of the character. It just is. It just is. I think of like Daedalus, like I didn't even, you know, like it was just, here's this man with a disability doesn't pop up once. And I was, and has nothing to do with his character. He's just, this is just him. And it was, oh my God, I can't also, I don't know what's like, I love Daedalus so much. I love that actor so much. So it's like,

Just seeing that just warms my heart so much because it's like, yeah, this is what representation should be. It's not about showing disability or showing like a different just orientations in life or whatever. It's not about exploring that. It's about just letting it be and letting it exist. You know, it's the person's, the person, the character's identity.

story doesn't have to do with them being this different. Exactly. From the quote-unquote norm. And so, yeah, no, I was like so stunned that the show did that in such a beautiful way. And the way I've been screaming about my whole life, like I'm like, I don't want Pocahontas, I just want

you know, an indigenous character, just like that. They're just there. Yeah. Like they're just there. That's, that's that. And it's sad. Like it's like, and those shows are well received a lot of the time, right? Like,

They aren't necessarily mass popular blockbusters, but like everyone who watches them loves them. Yeah. And it just goes to show it's like there is a place in our storytelling for everyone. Why do we keep telling the same story about this guy named Odysseus or whatever? Yeah. The same way over and over and over again. It's like do something different. Yeah.

um you know we'll end up talking about it more next time but like the the Orpheus Eurydice storyline here is a great example because it's still a romance between these two characters but it's a romance of falling out of love yeah and what does that look like and yeah how is that also beautiful yeah in its own way that one hit me really hard because like I have a like personal experience like that similar kind of

falling out of like I've been that woman who has fallen out of love with someone who loved me very deeply and it you know when I first watched it it hit a lot harder now when my second walkthrough I was like I had the amount of love and like empathy I had for Riddhi as a character was just as someone who's been there and been out of it

And who blamed herself the way that Riddhi was blaming herself. Like, it was so real to me where I'm like, oh, there is love. There is love. It's just not the right kind of love. But anyways, I digress. Yeah, well, we'll have so much fun unpacking that next time. But today, yes, we are, we're going to go to Mount Olympus and the underworld. And we're going to talk about the gods because... I love them. Yeah.

It's so weird. It's such a short show. Yeah. And it feels like there's not a lot of characters, but when you really unpack it and how well storylines were tied together, it's like there's a lot of characters to talk about. Yes. And I mean, I guess we've already talked about Zeus a little bit. Do you want to add any more to your impressions of him? Jeff Goldblum? Oh my God. Jeff Goldblum. He is...

I love Jeff Goldblum. And I, you know, Liv was saying this and I've been saying this since I watched first watched the show. I swear to God, they just released him on set. They were just like, go ahead, go ahead, Jeff, do what you want. And he was like, great. Okay. And he did. And it was beautiful. And he kind of captures that, that,

really amazing thing about Zeus as a character where he is this like all powerful sure God but he is hyper aware that his position is maybe not as permanent as he likes it to be and that erodes at his confidence in his position and yeah I loved him as a character Hera obsessed yeah

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's a good place to start with both of them because, as you pointed out, and this is something –

that had been pointed out to me as well is like this Zeus is really interesting because this is an insecure Zeus. This is like the Zeus from Prometheus bound where like he is worried about the prophecies that he may be overthrown. He is making rash decisions to protect himself, to protect his position. And you don't necessarily get that in all of these stories and depictions of Zeus. But Jeff Goldblum like

It was really interesting because, like, on the one hand, it's like you almost want to call him emotional because there are times where, like, you know, when he's so insecure and he's just going off. He is emotional. He's having big feelings. He is. But, like, at the same time, it's like I don't want to call that emotional because it's all self-centered. It's not being concerned for anyone else but himself. So, like, it's...

Well, and then I think about, I think there was one part where Prometheus says, like, this is not the Zeus I knew. And he also says, like, you know, Zeus was human too. And, like, I think there's that in the thing where he is, you know, Zeus later when he talks to Dionysus, he's like, remember, you are a god. I even think I wrote down what he said. Oh, no, let me find it. What is it?

He says to him, we don't love anything lesser than ourselves. So he sees human. He is not human anymore. Correct. But he,

There are so many things about him that I think are so human and this sort of like very self-centered sort of worry and paranoia and that kind of thing. I think that is very human, especially from someone who is in a position of power and who doesn't and doesn't want to lose that power and is power hungry and wants people to respect him. You know, it's that whole like, like you got to give, you know, like treat me the way you want to be treated. But that just means like, you know,

respect me because versus anything. So I think there's something about him that there is that humanity that's left in him, but it's not maybe the good part of humanity. It's that very...

How do we get to this point? Oh, it's because that was prioritized, that selfishness and that greed, the capitalism and patriarchy. I was going to say, so patriarchy, which is this, like patriarchy creates an ideal man, right? And there is such anxiety. Yeah.

for men to reach that idea. Like women have their own ideal. They have to meet in terms of beauty standards and things like that. But men have that too. And it causes them so much anxiety. And I love that. Like what is causing this kind of freak out for Zeus is a line appears and he interprets that as this random little wrinkle on his forehead, which is like aging and, and like these things that are just overwhelming.

a fear of like not meeting this standard that they're supposed to. And so it's like, that's a very real, you know, I like that it's acknowledging the anxiety that comes from even being a man in this world. It's not perfect. Like, and this is, I think the thing that people forget when they, when we hear like people who are feminists or talk about patriarchy and all the thing is it's they, I think they center it so much on the woman's experience that they don't realize that actually it's

Patriarchy is very, very, very negative for men as well because it sets up this standard and expectation for them to be a certain thing.

that is unattainable in the same way and also doesn't allow them to exist and have be emotional or be imperfect or be all these things without it being viewed as weakness and so you know you see Zeus you know yeah he got the wrinkle what did he say what is that aging and I just woke up mood I was like same honestly I feel that in my soul but like it's that idea of like

it he is not allowed to change from that what his whatever his peak was that he he sees it as and if he is that is weakness and what it's not but you know yeah and and that's and that's just it it's like that is what patriarchy does right it removes your humanity yes exactly and

And that's why the relationship with Dionysus is so interesting because Dionysus is trying to live up to the image of his father. He wants a role in this system, this patriarchal system. Yeah. And so he can either choose to imbruce the casual cruelty as we identified it when we're... And we'll talk about some of those instances. No, that's absolutely...

the him in the watch store with the lady casual cruelty casual cruelty yeah perfect way to describe it yeah and so it's like Dionysus is definitely engaged in that not to like the extreme degree we see some of the other gods do it but like he's he's kind of there right like he wants to be he thinks he wants to be someone his father respects but then he's also you know at the end justice for Dionysus um

Persephone comes up to him and says, you caring for that creature, it's not weak. Embrace your humanity. That's where the season ends, right? He's like, do I embrace my

godly hood or do I embrace my humanity? Yeah. And, oh, what is it? She was like, maybe the best part of you is the human part. Yeah. And it's interesting because if we take that thinking about how, you know, Prometheus was like, yeah, Zeus was human once. And like, we're getting, we're getting this idea of like how they maintain power is through taking that essence. So Zeus has just been able to do that more and more and more and more and more, which has elevated him to this like very super God level. And, yeah,

So there was a human in him once and he was close to humanity once and Dionysus kind of is that. He is, there is God, but there is human. You know, his mother was human, very much so. And he is the one who is directly out and engaging with humans so much. He is existing within them. And yes, in this very...

Very hedonistic, wild, fun way. But he is interacting with people organically because when the other gods come and talk to mortals and around mortals, they let them know, hey, I'm a god. You know, I'm god. Dionysus doesn't necessarily. He's just talking to the guy in the falafel stand being like, hey, man.

You know, what's going on? I'm having problems with my dad. But he's not saying to them, hey, I'm a god. Tell me what's going on. He's just having a conversation. It's this very natural human sort of connection he is looking for. Today's episode is brought to you by Olive and June. I don't know about you guys, but...

I feel like a much more like a real human being when I have nice nails. Like there is something about having just good looking hands, you know, that just kind of makes it feel like you're slightly less of a disaster of a person, which I just can deeply, deeply relate to. And that is why I love Olive and June, which has everything you need for a salon quality manicure in one box. You

You can customize it with your choice of six polishes. I am a big fan of like blues and greens and yellows and like very seasonal, but like distinctly weird or just like not pinks and reds. All my jam. And the polish doesn't chip. It lasts for seven days or more and breaks down to just $2 a manicure.

Plus it's free of 15 different no-no ingredients. It really, it's great. They give you everything. They tell you exactly how to do it, like how to prep your nails, what the steps are. And honestly, I have been doing those steps ever since I was first sponsored by them. And it works like your nails, the nail polish lasts so much better when you prep it. Like they say, and it's like,

Well, it makes sense, but it's fairly hard to know unless you're a professional. But these guys just tell you what to do so that you can do it out of your house and avoid all of the trouble of going to find a professional. Honestly, just generally huge fan. I just cannot wait to be rocking more Olive and June and get that whole system fresh. So get your nails in order.

which is not their tagline, just something I said, visit oliveandjune.com slash myths20 for 20% off your first system. That's O-L-I-V-E-A-N-D-J-U-N-E dot com slash M-Y-T-H-S-2-0 for 20% off your first system.

Now at Verizon, we have some big news for your peace of mind. For all our customers, existing and new, we're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on MyPlan and MyHome. That's future you peace of mind. And everyone can save on a brand new phone on MyPlan when you trade in any phone from one of our top brands. That's new phone peace of mind. Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us,

We got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers. What if I told you that right now millions of people are living with a debilitating condition that's so misunderstood many of them don't even know that they have it. That condition is obsessive compulsive disorder.

or OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the Chief Clinical Officer of NoCD. And in the 25 years I've been treating OCD, I've met so many people who are suffering from the condition in silence, unaware of just what it was. OCD can create overwhelming anxiety and fear around what you value most, make you question your identity, beliefs, and morals, and drive you to perform mentally and physically draining compulsions or rituals. Over my career, I've seen just how devastating OCD can be when it's left untreated.

But help is available. That's where NoCD comes in. NoCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for obsessive compulsive disorder. Our licensed therapists are trained in exposure and response prevention therapy, a specialized treatment proven to be incredibly effective for OCD. So visit NoCD.com to schedule a free 15-minute call with our team. That's NoCD.com.

Yeah. Yeah, because when Zeus goes down, he comments on, he's like, they're too jovial. It's like, they're not fearful enough of me. Why aren't they doing anything? It's like, buddy, come on. And we learn, like, Zeus becomes Zeus by killing his father and absorbing his soul. So it's, again, continuing this generational abuse of father and son, which is, you know, it ties to Greek mythology and it's still...

you know, a huge issue today. Yeah, yeah. And speaks into how patriarchy and sort of those values are maintained because it's how do you...

teach boys to uphold the patriarchy when they grow into men. Well, you need to first remove them from an environment that would push them away from it. So you remove them from being around women and you have the men raise them. And, you know, we see that in like classical Greece, it was when the boy was old enough. And by old enough, I mean like around five or six,

He is removed from the care of his mother and he is now with the father and the father is raising him. And that is what keeps the cycle going because you teach the son how to maintain these structures and don't let them engage with others. And you don't let them engage with women and allow them to humanize them and see them as people. You just kind of, you know.

And it's interesting the way that, like, it's the carrot in the club with how you do it, too, right? Like, on the one hand, Zeus is trying to force compliance for...

Dionysus by taking away one of the things he loves. But there's also what is being offered. The meander water, which is immortality on the one hand, but also Dionysus looking for a promotion. He wants power over other things that seem more important. And if that's not what patriarchy is in a nutshell, this idea of making yourself known forever, like Gilgamesh. Shoot. Okay.

Achilles. And the power that goes with that. Bravo. Well done. Oh, man. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. In a very disturbing way, but it's fine. Which does now make me want to go to Hera for a little bit because...

Her? Love of my life. Characterization in this is so interesting. So let me get your take on it first. I have an incredible love for Hera as a character and as a figure from antiquity. Mostly because I see the women who have to exist within patriarchy and the ways they subvert that power and keep going in life.

is that it's very present in her and I find her to be an incredibly tragic character actually and yes she is bitchy sure okay but you know what what is a bitchy woman if not a woman who stands up for herself and is confident and doesn't take shit and I think that's powerful so when I see this woman who is you know yeah to quote my big fat Greek wedding the man may be the head of the household but the woman is the neck and she can turn the head any way she wants

You know, that it is very much that. Hera has inherent power, not just in, you know, what she can do, but also in the way that she can control Zeus. And by control, I do mean like comfort and guide him. And she is the emotional side of him. It's sort of like the traditional heteroromantic relationship dynamic where the man is the provider and the woman is the emotional support of

And she is very much that. Even if she is stern in times, that is what she has to be. But then we see her as this really actually like she is also a mother in a lot of ways in how she protects things. Maybe she goes about things wrong, but she's still protecting them. When she turns the women that Zeus has an affair with into bees, that is...

She is protecting them in a sense. She is removing them from him so he can't keep using them to further his own power and his own goals. And she puts them somewhere she deems safe. Does she always do it? Is that the right thing to do? No. But how can a woman exist within that structure? What avenues is she allowed to take? And this is one of them.

and I found it incredibly interesting let me just pull this up I totally did not get it ready on women the choice of within chaos to have her choose it always being bees I found to be incredibly interesting because I don't know if you know there's this poet from the archaic period his name is Simonides and

And he wrote an entire poem about women. And he's basically throughout it talking about like, here are the different type of women. And, you know, there's the woman who's like a donkey and she's lazy. And there's the woman who's like the fox and she's wily. There's a woman like a horse and she's beautiful, but she looks like power. And it's all of these women that are negative except for one, which was the bee woman, where

where he says, like, another type is from a bee. Good luck in finding such a woman. Only she deserves to be exempt from stinging blame. The household that she manages will thrive. A loving wife beside her loving man. She'll grow old having born illustrious and handsome children. She herself shines bright among all women. Grace envelops her. She doesn't like to sit with other women discussing sex. Zeus gratifies mankind with these most excellent and thoughtful wives. So I think that choice of

turning them into bees where the, especially the female bees, two of the Queens, they're the ones who are running the show is actually, there's something in that that is really, um,

powerful and protective. I just don't always think she goes about it the right way, but she takes the avenues that is available to her. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's why for me, Hera is such a complicated character, even in this show. And she is another one, her and Dionysus are like the main two. And I'm really eager. I was really eager to see like what we're going to do because Hera,

She is also someone who very much engages in casual cruelty. Yes. Like her tacitas, like the removal of their tongues so they can't speak as a way to protect herself. Yeah. And then, you know, turning the scene where we see how Hera turns them into bees, she forces a woman to go through...

An entire pregnancy and birth within seconds. And I was like, that was one of the most horrifying things to see happen. It was like body horror to the extreme. I was like, oh no, no, no, no, I can't watch this. This is my nightmare. And at the end, when Zeus is kind of...

Had enough. Yeah. And he's... What he's done is he set fire to the beehives and is killing all of his former lovers. Yeah. And he's like, I'm not going to let you enslave them anymore. And she's like, so you kill them instead? Yeah. And you kind of realize...

Both options are very cruel. And like, you know, that's, that is the reality for women in the ancient world women in the modern world of like when you are subjugated. Yeah, it is enslavement, rape or death like. Mm hmm.

No matter what, it's horrifying, again, in this system. And what Hera is really doing is co-opting power. You're right. She is subverting power how she can, but she is working within the system of patriarchy to her advantage. And that becomes kind of a really power... And she is a white woman as well. And it's very much reading as...

you know, women do that to survive and they'll hold onto that patriarchal system as long as they can get some semblance of power out of it. But eventually the top will turn against you and will bring you harm. Yeah. And,

It's so interesting. Like the casual cruelty. I really love that phrasing of it. Cause it's perfect. And then, yeah, to doing that to the Tacitus and stuff, but then you also see the actual like amount of like love and care she has for the Tacitus at the same time. Like not just when Zeus tortures and kills the one, the actual like,

we see her have for that woman was so immense. But there's also this like other small moment where I'm like, she cared. It was small care, but it was there where it was like when she and Poseidon were having sex on the boat one time and she has all the tacitus around them and they all have sunglasses on.

is on. And I was just like, aww. She made sure their eyes weren't getting assaulted by the sun. That's kind of nice. But it's so interesting to me because she shows care and she is this mother figure. But she shows like

care in within the system in the ways she can so she can still have power and i think it's interesting when you you bring up this like this is how women um um who can survive the patriarchy and you know specifically white women like yeah sorry let's be honest yep um this is how it's often done and i read a book earlier this year uh it's called down girl by kate man the logic of misogyny that touches on this and it says you know like misogyny is created by patriarchy

And it is upheld by the men who embody patriarchy, but it is also very much so upheld by the women who allow it to happen within patriarchy and who kind of turn on each other so that they can keep their position. But I love how it's highlighted with Hera because I think it's so...

and interesting to end. Also, I just love seeing women who aren't necessarily good guys. Yeah. Because like women can suck too. Yeah. That's great. That's why like, again, her ending was so interesting because we got to listen to one phone call. We have the phone call at the end and she's like, honey, we're going to war. Darling, it's mommy. Yeah.

Gather your troops and set up a spare bed. Oh, my God. I have to rewatch that scene all the time because there's something about her hanging up that phone, putting on her sunglasses and marching out that like literally the first time I saw it, I was tearing up. I was like, oh, power. Oh, it's beautiful. And I was like, that is the energy I want to bring into the room. So like this is who I want to be. But like that is so...

It's interesting. Now we're seeing her like, this is why I wanted more because I wanted to see that snap. Right. Because Zeus has turned against her. The system is now working against her. Yep. What does she do? Does she try to recreate that system and put herself at top?

And you can call that a matriarchy, but at the end of the day, it's still an exploitive system. Exactly. Yeah. Or does she, as you pointed out, like she hasn't necessarily given up all of her humanity either. Does she try something else? And I think that's an interesting open-ended question there at the end as well. I think she's calling Ares. Is that who you're talking about?

I couldn't see it being anyone else. First of all, she is the mother. We have that clear. Because she's not just using it as mom. It's mommy. So there's an affection. And it's gather your troops. So I'm like, okay, who were her sons? We have Ares and Hephaestus. Those were her sons. Hephaestus isn't going to gather his troops. And it's probably not Harmonia either. No. Okay.

We love her. No. Yeah. The other one. I don't remember the one that Hercules marries. I don't know. Oh, yeah. But what I just... Because like... And we were kind of touching on this bit earlier. And I think we'll have to talk about this more with Anastasia when she comes on. But the amount of mothers in the series and Hera as a mother is something I think that needs to be held on. And you have to remember like she is...

I often think of her as like the mother to all, right? Especially her position in antiquity was this, the woman's goddess. And how did she do that? She had to protect women by removing them from situations. It's sort of like, that's kind of how I see her turning the women into bees where it's like, they're no longer in a,

environment where men can exploit them. Sure, she is now, you know? Yeah. But she is also taking care of them just in the only way she knows how because I don't think she's a particularly warm character. She's sort of that very cold, hard-to-meet mother, but she's still a mom. There's still care there. Yeah. And I think the other thing, because we get to see a little bit of

like with Dionysus, right? Like that, I think it was used in a promo was the scene of them sitting at the table for the first time together. It's like, don't use that language around your mom. She's like, she's not my mom, smack. Yeah.

And it's Zeus who does it, right? Yeah. And it's not Hera who's like calling Dionysus out or anything. Yeah. And the reason we have the body horror situation is like she keeps telling Zeus no more children. Yeah. And you kind of wonder why is that? Like why is she doing that? Is it because she's aware of this crisis that we have in the underworld of

Because it doesn't seem like meander water is running out, but we know that the system is getting overloaded somehow. So there might be a limit to the immortality. There might be a limit to how many people you can have be a part of this family. And so I think there's something more there that I'm really curious about.

That we don't get to learn too much. And the other really interesting thing with Hera is she has a relationship with Poseidon. And I think this will be a good lead into Poseidon. But also she makes a comment like, he's like, you know, if it was me in charge, you'd be with me. And she's like, if it was you, I'd be sleeping with him. And I thought, that's so interesting. Why? See, I see that as her...

Not allowing herself to be the tied down and the wifely wife. You know what I mean? She is someone who has power in herself and allowing herself to have a, an affair of this kind gives her a position of power in the sense that she has agency outside of the marriage. And she,

You know, like it was even, you know, when Zeus was freaking out because he heard her having sex with Poseidon in her bathroom and she's like, show me. And then, you know, after she's comforting him and she was all like, oh, you know, it was probably just somebody fucking in a Tacita, but of a Tacita, you know, she was saying to him, like, we both have our affairs. So I think there's something about them having affairs with mortals that is almost OK, but

But having affairs with other gods, that's too much of a reach. So by her having an affair with Poseidon, who is another god, like let's remove the family relationships from it. That is her asserting her power and her ability to have control in such a way. Yeah. No, I like that take, especially if we, you know, kind of contextualize that again in ancient times where at least for men. Mm-hmm.

If you are sleeping with people of lower sex, particularly slaves. Yeah. Right. Like that's just acceptable and expected to a certain extent. Yeah. And that's being like, hair is wanting to take advantage of that patriarchal privilege to an extent. And she's getting some pushback for it. Yeah. Interestingly enough. Yeah. Yeah.

And the other thing with, what was I going to, I, I'm almost lost with thought. Where was I? Might've just floated off. It'll come back. It'll come back. It'll make its way back.

Anyway, but like we do learn eventually that Poseidon, so this is kind of my segue into Poseidon, ends up falling in love with Hera. So I definitely think you're correct. Like for Hera, this is just a power play. Yeah, yeah. For sure. But Poseidon actually has feelings. He has feelings. He catches feelings for her. And I don't know if you noticed this, but when they introduced Poseidon, because, you know, they show the character and they're like, woom.

name blah blah blah and one of the things that said Zeus's younger brother and I thought that was crazy because in actual myth Zeus is the youngest he is the youngest child but in here he is the older sibling and I was like because because adding the younger in there I paints Poseidon a certain way and paints Zeus a certain way

That I was just like, what is happening? What are they trying to do here? I couldn't quite grasp it. It's flung out at me for his character. And I think there's, that's a really good point. I think there are some interpretations. I could be wrong, but I feel like I've heard there's some interpretations that, because I think the general order is, no, is Poseidon. No, Poseidon's third. So Hades and Zeus. Hades and Zeus.

Oh, so. Well, OK, I'm keeping the woman out for a minute because I'm going to confuse myself even more. But like a general order of because some people have pointed like you. The trident has three. The bident for Hades has two. Zeus with the thunderbolt is one. And so there's this weird certain order and that like the birth order is actually relates to like.

since Zeus was never eaten by his father and then the way that they were expelled becomes the new birth order basically so I've heard some interpretations in that way I don't know if any ancients were buying that but I don't know maybe it wasn't even that important but because like well and not to go too far off Poseidon yet but Hades looks visibly older than both of them and tired yes he

He's aging. You want to see aging Zeus? That's Hades. He's tired. That's kind of like what I get is like what Zeus is afraid of becoming is his brother, Hades. And the only time we see real violence against the gods is done, I'm pretty sure, by Zeus to Hades. Zeus to Hades, but also Zeus a little bit to Dionysus too, right? To like, to reinforce. Yeah.

you know don't don't upset the orders like I'm on top here's your mother you're a child behave like that that is being reinforced by Zeus every time and yeah I'm comfy Poseidon though I don't have that many thoughts about him I do think it's interesting that he has actual love and like when you see it displayed you know especially at the last episode like it is it is very clear like

this there is love and he is jealous of his brother and he does he does the little like show host um show ponying in various ways him walking into the house after coming from i can't do laps in the ocean yes you can bud you're the god of the sea yes you can um there's this weird jealousy they're weird i don't know if he's in love it's not weird that's

Yeah, it's definitely like the brother that feels overshadowed. And sometimes that's okay because Zeus doesn't or maybe Poseidon doesn't want to be. He's okay being just in charge of Crete. He's okay with like his little, he's okay for a while. And I think that's when they talk about this prophecy starting to happen, the family falls. I think some of it is Dionysus is being a catalyst, right? Dionysus shows up and starts talking about love and things like that.

and stuff yeah and then and then Poseidon starts to catch feelings for he starts to think more about this relationship with Hera and so I think I think Poseidon is kind of would have been in stasis for a long time he would have been content with his little slice of pie basically but the events unfolding the prophecy starting to take place the unraveling I think him starting to

not like being overshadowed is a component of that. And I think also witnessing the actual violence of Zeus where he says, you know, like you're, you're being like dad right now. Yeah. There there's that where once that happens, he is witnessing Zeus be violent to Hera. He is witnessing Zeus be violent to his other brother. He's seeing him be a tyrant and,

He's like, no, this is too far. Like this, when you were just, you know, keeping the order going, blah, blah, blah. And you weren't actually causing violence to, you know, the Olympians. Because that's something I'll talk, I'd love to talk about later is stepping outside the realm of the Olympians, but still in the gods. That is so beautifully done. Is...

Yeah, I think it's the it's seeing violence within the own family and seeing Zeus be the thing that they rebelled against, you know, the violence that they pushed back against, and they established this new world order, but now he is being like the thing before.

That's where there's a problem because it's no longer sort of what they agreed upon, I guess, and what they were okay with in the beginning because now he is being the tyrant. Now he is being the abusive father. And that is, it's like triggering the trauma in Poseidon's brain. And so he's going, oh, no, no, no, no. We need to get out and stop this. This is too far. Yeah.

And it's, again, going back to this recognition of like patriarchy harms everyone. But you, certain people are privileged in that system to an extent that they'll turn a blind eye to it until, as you pointed out, Target, Zeus starts to target the family itself. Yeah. Because, again, we see Poseidon engaging casual cruelty by drowning a woman in the pool and sitting below watching her drown. Yeah.

like dang that was something i i like the casual i think casual quality is like the perfect phrase for that because when i watched that for the first time last summer and then when i re-watched it again this week i still couldn't process that scene i was just like what the fuck is the point of this this is so weird and uncomfortable and it's it's like

it's the display of casual cruelty you're right I feel like that is officially going to be the title now casual cruelty always hashtag slash casual cruelty why yeah because that is what very much marks

the godliest of the gods yes um in a lot of this and i think i think that's a good chance now for us to maybe look at the underworld gods because they are distinctive in a lot of ways from that but they're and also in the way that like i was saying dionysus interacts with humans they're also the other gods that have the closest contact with humans as sort of people

and sort of what's happening. And they're much more, they're not just aware of what, you know, the gods are doing in terms of like basically harvesting, you know, the souls or whatever. They're the ones who actually have to be faced with it. Yeah. Compared to the other gods, they don't have to see the consequences of their actions. You know, they don't have to feel the weight of that. They're above it all quite literally while the weight of it is quite literally on the underworld. So yeah.

Yeah, well, and just looking at how, like, Poseidon and Zeus in particular, like, just randomly kill people. Like, honestly, love the scene of the skeet shooting of the ball boys. Yes. Like, hilarious. Horrifying, but hilarious. And if, like, if you think about it, though, it's, like, they're viewing it as this system, like, humans are chattel, right? Yeah. Like, oh, we have to remove them from the mortal realm in order to...

Get our me underwater. And, you know, you could, that's a huge commentary on how we treat our natural resources, our food sources and things like that of, of,

yeah how indifferent are a large population of people to the food they consume yeah yeah and just generally labor and just how we treat each other in the world and it's like when we view people and food and systems in the world as commodities and things to be consumed and processed we remove the life from it you know and it's it's

You know, there's very much so. There should be pushback to that. And, you know, I don't know. Go fishing. See what it's actually like to kill an animal. Like, I don't hate saying this, actually. Like, I'm First Nation, so I... Hello, boy. So, like, I've been...

I haven't been hunting myself, but I've been on the processing side of it. But also there's a cultural teaching there, right? So like, but that's very removed from Western culture and Western society. And that is where I think people struggle. But you see that same in the show where it's, you know, oh God, but also just, I love the way the underworld was done too. You know what I mean? I do too. Something really beautiful. Yeah.

Oh, God, yeah. Well, just deciding to keep it the gray place, right? Keep it all in gray tones. And the other funny thing, and we'll probably talk about this more with mortals, but like

The humans are told about a renewal process, right? Going into the underworld. So like the gods have also created comfort for the humans. It's like you might suffer and you might die here in the mortal realm, but don't worry. You can have another chance. And there's like some individuals who buy into it so much. It's like, I like that. Yeah. Yes. I wanted to be a taciturn. But I wasn't called. You said I got to be an Olympia sacrifice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, like you literally have humans just willing to die for the gods. And it's a little bit of a, oh, what's the word? You got it. It's the end of the week. It's just, oh, God, it's the word that starts with a C. And it has to do with looking at yourself being pretty. And I think it's just confidence.

consecrate no it's a chance for zeus to preen right like oh these humans will do for me because i'm so awesome i know there's another word for it but preen works as well vanity it does not start with the c i don't know why i thought it did vanity it's vanity

I think because V words I associate with my name. So like my initials are C. So fair. So I see a V word. I'm like C comes obviously. I don't know. I love that. It's my brain logic. It's my girl logic happening right now. That's what we're going with. Oh, I'm so weird. Yeah. So I think your interpretation of Hades is correct. And like Hades is also kind of sounding the alarm, right? He's also coming to terms with

His role in the system that is causing a lot of harm. And so I, I want to ask you about Persephone then, like what is your take on her? Cause like, she's a fun character and she's very interesting. Is so beautifully done. And so just awesome.

everything I would have hoped for in a character. First of all, I love that she's allergic to pomegranates. Yeah. Like, oh, I love that. I love that. Like sort of like call outs to, why are you staring at me? My son, my son never does this. So it's freaking me out a little bit. My son, I don't know. People were quoting it. I mean, my cat, he's sitting right behind me. We know, we love, we stand. But yeah,

I love her at that final dinner where Zeus starts rationing them and her saying, I don't, why did you make up that story? Which also I love that the gods are the ones who make the myths and throw them out into the world. That implication. She goes, why did you make up that story? It makes it sound bad. And sort of that realization of Dionysus then realizing like,

He's like, wait, you love my uncle? And she's like, yes, of course I do. This is a decision I made. She's like, I made this choice because she genuinely loves Hades. And you see that care where she sees her husband is exhausted and worn out and they work...

And I think what's interesting too as well is they work side by side. They're not sort of existing in each other's realms doing their own thing. They have the same goal and mission. They are the ultimate sort of like what a good couple should be and how they support each other. And she's seeing he is at his tipping point right now. He is exhausted. He is overwhelmed. He has just been

horribly attacked by his brother, she needs to be the one who supports and she knows what he wants to do. She needs to help in the ways that she can. So, you know, she makes sure Orpheus and Eurydice get back. She makes sure they go back and she is...

She's just such this beautiful, amazing character. I love her so much. Yes. So beautiful. And I think what's interesting, both in how they characterized her, but also in her casting, is that she is othered from the Olympians. She is a black woman. And Hera...

I think mentions like invites, like invites her up for dinner. It's like, and it won't be catered to bring your own sandwich. Yeah. So she does. Yeah. And she's the one who like goes to. She's not embarrassed about it too. Yeah. She's just like, yeah, I did. Do you have another one? No, no. And you can see that she is othered from like, she's someone who seems to have married into the family and like the whole family didn't necessarily agree on that. Yeah.

Which, again, kind of ties into this idea of, like, this union was really a love match between Hades and Persephone. And I really want to see Demeter, like, what they would have done with her. Because, you know, Demeter is also such an interesting character in the myths that we know. And we have the huge, you know, hymn to Demeter. So if this is the Persephone we're getting, who would be the Demeter? That's why I'm wondering if, like, it almost would have – I would have almost viewed this –

as being maybe i forget oh because zeus is supposed to be persephone's father i feel like there's that that isn't yeah i'm really curious who demeter would be in this world and i think it was a smart choice to not include her to allow persephone to be this outside agent because as you pointed out she makes sure orpheus and eurydice ends up back in the mortal she is helping

The humans. Dismantle the family, basically. Mm-hmm. And it's being done out of love for Hades and for just, she sees what harm is being done to him and this family, and she's like, I don't want to be a part of it. I'm not a part of it. Yeah. I'm not going to pretend to be a part of it. I'm going to, versus like, you know, how we talked about Hera is someone who is co-opting the patriarchal power to survive. Mm-hmm.

Persephone feels like someone who's actively dismantling it. And I think their casting choices were very well done to show that for those reasons. Oh man. Yeah. BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out.

Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self-care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com slash random podcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax.

What if I told you that right now, millions of people are living with a debilitating condition that's so misunderstood, many of them don't even know that they have it. That condition is obsessive compulsive disorder, or OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the Chief Clinical Officer of NoCD. And in the 25 years I've been treating OCD, I've met so many people who are suffering from the condition in silence, unaware of just what it was. OCD can create overwhelming anxiety and fear around what you value most, make you question your identity,

beliefs, and morals, and drive you to perform mentally and physically draining compulsions or rituals. Over my career, I've seen just how devastating OCD can be when it's left untreated. But help is available. That's where NoCD comes in. NoCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for obsessive compulsive disorder.

Our licensed therapists are trained in exposure and response prevention therapy, a specialized treatment proven to be incredibly effective for OCD. So visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15-minute call with our team. That's nocd.com. This is Car Trax with Turtle Wax. Your car says a lot about you. So if we asked your car what it would say about you, what would it say? Oh.

Listen, you dropped one of those tiny cheeseburgers under the seat like last week, and now we're both dry heaving at the stench. Do us a favor, grab some turtle wax, and let's get to work. This has been Car Tracks with Turtle Wax. You are how you car. God, she's just such a... She's so well done. So beautiful. So stunning. So...

No nonsense. Yeah. But like, and she, it's very similar. Like her and Hera actually kind of remind me of each other in the way that they sort of hold power and embody power and have power. But you're right in the, they go about it in different ways. Yeah. But they are both,

We can't deny that these are both two incredibly powerful, confident, strong women. Yeah. We're just seeing different sides of a coin. Yeah. That's why I'm wondering if Demeter could have actually been a mortal woman. Or like, I feel like you could actually do something really interesting with Demeter in this story. But I think it would have to be done in a way that would make Persephone outside of the family in some regards. Well, because I'm trying to remember the original, like, the 12 gods story.

the 12 Olympians yeah um because I know there's one that flip-flops in and out and I just can't remember if it's Hestia or um Demeter and I feel like it's Demeter which then would be really interesting because then she is not a part of the Olympians um but also okay we've had random Hestia thought Hestia was a puppy that Zeus loved did you do you remember that yeah is

crazy he's like you loved once remember Hestia you loved Hestia father killed him and you brought him back yep

And that's such a small little detail that, first of all, I love because Hestia never gets mentioned in any, we don't have stories about her. So she is not really, people don't think of her in the same way, I think, that they think of the other gods because she just doesn't exist in that way. But she represents the heart of the home. She's the hearth. And what is a puppy if not that? Yeah. You know? Oh, yeah. That's so beautiful. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, that goes, we'll talk about prophecies more next time too. But like, you know, what really highlights the fact that Zeus is human underneath it all is because he has this prophecy. And not only does he have this prophecy, he's obsessed with it. Truly. To the point, like, and I think I can't wait to, like, I'm kind of saving the fates more for the next conversation because it's a, they're a really odd thing.

yeah i would love to touch on them a bit in this but not maybe not in the context of what what you're thinking we can save that for later because i want to talk about them and other gods yeah yeah definitely well because we'll talk about them but like my thing is like they make a point it's like the prophecies all humans have one yeah and i love like the fact that we see three three four characters have the same prophecy and they all read completely different meanings into it that yeah

Is based on their own life experience. I loved that. And I think the whole storyline. With King Minos. And his son Assyrian. How like. He actually just kind of ignored his prophecy. He put his son in a labyrinth. And then just didn't think about it. And it wasn't until he was being forced. To reckon. And challenge the prophecy. That the prophecy is brought about. And I thought that was a really interesting take. On how.

prophecy is something you buy into and if you buy into it you're gonna uh what are they uh predetermined or something like that uh yeah no i hear what you're saying yeah

all the words that I learned in college and I'm quickly forgetting I think that's the point of a college self-fulfilling prophecy those sort of things right and so it's like if you you know you heard it once I'm like it was something like that I think Prue does that too she's like it was this and I interpreted it as that and it was like the most benign thing you'd ever heard you're like yeah that's all that's all I meant that's um so I like that I like that that's an aspect that

Is reminding us that Zeus is human. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. He has prophecy. We don't hear about any of the other gods having a prophecy. That's weird. Which I think should bring us to anything else you want to say about Persephone? No.

Cause I've got one more character to talk about. Nothing I can think of about just that. I, by God, do I love that? That version of her so much. Oh God. The, the portraits that all of the gods have of themselves. Like for Hera has her own beautiful portrait in her bathroom of her being a badass bitch. Zeus has so many. And then in, in Hades and Persephone's bedroom, there's this beautiful one of them standing next to each other. There, you know, it kind of looks at like, what's that? Like,

like gothic American one. Yeah. You know, it looks like that, but their Hades is smiling in it. They look happy and it's like, oh, love. I guess it's love. Yeah.

Oh, I love it so much. Let's just say I love Hades and Persephone in this. It's so beautiful. They're really well done, really interesting. Exactly. And I liked that they were differentiated from the Olympians in a lot of ways. So that was very well done. Which brings me to our final character, which is one of the most interesting ones is Prometheus. Oof.

Because Prometheus is our narrator. Yep. As well as he's orchestrating events to bring about the prophecy, to bring about the ruin of the family. And he's also someone who breaks the fourth wall to talk to us. Constantly and consistently. I love him walking with Zeus and Zeus is spewing nonsense and he's just looking back at us like,

can you, do you hear this guy? And I'm like, yes, for me, yes, I do hear this guy. You and I, same, same boat, man. Same boat, different day, same Eagle. Yeah. And, and he also, I won't call it casual cruelty, but he does, he commits a cruel act in his car on. Yeah. For the sake of bringing about this fate. Yes. And it, it,

I think it's done with care, but it's also like, it's interesting because he's also immortal. He's also part of this meander water system that he chooses to sacrifice his

Not only something that's very important to him, but like the life of someone, right? Like who didn't choose that for themselves. Yeah. For this believed greater good. And so I like that there's a little hint of that, like a little hint of that cruelty. But, you know, when are monstrous actions, cruel actions done for the greater good?

And when does that eventually slip into these selfish actions that people would say is evil? I think they played with that really well. And I think Prometheus was kind of an example of that. And he's an interesting character because in a lot of ways, Prometheus within Greek myth is a trickster god in the way he operates because he kind of goes against...

the gods in order to help people and that's like often the role of trickster you know that's what raven does he he brings us uh he steals the sun and he releases that to us he's not doing it and and like the thing with tricksters too um where i'm like this is where i don't think prometheus sits into it as well as i think uh people would like him to his tricksters in my viewpoint don't do it for the sake of people they do it because they want to

like they are chaotic neutral through and through but Prometheus does care about people like that's something we see in the myth and I think that is something we see within chaos as well is there is an affection for humanity there and there's a seeing of it and I think it's interesting that he brings up you know like it's obvious he makes it very clear and very obvious that he and Zeus were raised together but

he never talks about him like a brother. It's always like a friend. Yes. Which I think hints at sort of the, the way the Greek pantheons and spirituality, not spirituality, Greek religion, quotation marks, thought about their gods and their relations to each other, because we have the Olympians and they're held up as sort of like this. They are the gold standard, but they're the third generation, you know? And, and,

This is kind of what I want to talk about bringing in the fates and the furies and the such is that even in OG quotation marks Greek myth, the Greek myth from antiquity, we see that while Zeus is all powerful and he is described as such, there are certain forces even he cannot subvert.

And those are the older gods, which are the ones that are more nebulous, that kind of rule over concepts where we see the fates and we see the furies. And they are gods, but they exist outside of the realm of the Olympians and of the order that the Olympians create. And I love the way that this show does, shows that. And Prometheus is also a part of that, right? Like Prometheus is a...

And so he is like technically of the generation of Zeus's parents. Yes. So it's almost like he is an elder to him in some ways, but talks about them being raised to each other, but they're not of the same family and not of the same stock. Yeah. And,

I just love the way that this show has played with that in showing us Prometheus in this way, instead of showing us the fates in this way. Zeus, he can't do anything about the fates. They are always going to be, he can't do anything about the theories. They will always be, and they exist outside of his order.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's one of those open-ended questions that I had because there is a line that when the Furies are introduced, Prometheus says they're as old as the gods. Actually, they're older than the gods. And I'm like, but we've also established like the gods as Zeus and his family exist, exist as

through the discovery of meander water through the extraction of soul and then the creation of the system to extract meander water. And so like the question then becomes is like then what exactly are the furies and the fates? How do they fit into the system

Well, and then like, what was his father? What was Kronos? Because, you know, Zeus didn't have this power until essentially he learned how to use meander water. And he starts with taking his father and he gets, and he becomes power hungry and he doesn't more and more and more and more and more. Did Kronos have the same thing happening? And if so, why didn't his son already know about it? Yeah. And because like the furies and the fates,

are so outside of sort of this meandering water system as you were saying it's like they don't need it yeah so what is happening here and like i think it's it points to you know if we think of the olympians as sort of this representation of patriarchy and capitalism and sort of western society the fates and the the furies and sort of these other things are the things that just are it's sort of like when i think about um environmentalism and i'm like look

The earth is going to be fine. I hate, like, I hate saying this because some people get really pissed about it. I'm like, look, the earth will be fine. We will die and thousands of years will pass and the earth will be fine.

We're going to die. We're killing ourselves. And maybe that's fine. I don't know. Nope. That's like, it's like when we say we're destroying the planet, what we're destroying is our own biome. Yeah. But I think that in that sense, that's what the Furies and the Fates sort of represent. They are the things that just are. And they are the, you know,

The order may fall, the family may fall, all that stuff. Fate is still going to exist. Yep. And the Furies are still going to exist because they are not something that is concrete and physical and can be manipulated. They just are.

I like that because it also kind of ties into this mystery we have with Canaeus. So I won't go too deep. But Canaeus is shown to have the ability to bring the souls back. Not to life, but to return the souls to life.

their shell I'm not sure the best way so that they can like there is a sense like there is an actual renewal process there is that maybe even the gods don't actually know what it is like they just call it renewal they don't actually know what happens once souls are removed from this meander water process but Canaeus has the ability to basically reverse what the gods are doing and

And, and where does that come from what's that come from something that is maybe just more inherently and all of us that just is like you said, yeah. And isn't manufactured it isn't. Yeah, yeah like where what what is that.

The Force. Star Wars. What are the things called that go through the thingies? I don't know. Star Wars. Midichlorians. Midichlorians. The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. Oh my God. Kineas is the mitochondria. The powerhouse of the cell. God, I love her. God, that's beautiful. Yeah, but like, I love...

However, then that like Prometheus in that sense is so he can he is not part of the family in the order because Zeus has physically removed him. He is not sort of yeah, he is allowed to have menander water in some sense, but I don't think he needs it. Quite frankly, I because I don't think he is of those people who does it.

So interestingly enough, Zeus keeps telling him to drink the water. Yeah. And Prometheus appears to be reluctantly doing so. I'm also wondering if like he is actually not like he's just pretending to like that. That was something I picked up on my second watch through. And so one of my thoughts I had while you're talking about him as like a trickster god or like I thought one thing that's in. Yeah. One thing that's interesting about him is that.

In order to bring about this fate, horrible things are happening to the mortals. Yeah. Zeus is pissed off and he's like, I need them to start behaving and respecting me again. So like Zeus is just, and we talk, we hear about all of the people that are like the underworld is getting, there's too many, too many dead people coming. And so again, that's kind of,

It's the same rhetoric that I've heard of like, oh, our systems aren't working for us. We just got to dismantle them. But it's like, but what? Like, you can agree with that. You can definitely agree with that. But it's like, but you also have to acknowledge what harm happens because the few things the system gets right and helps protect, like they too are destroyed. Yeah. And.

There is a human cost to that. And again, it goes back to this question of like, you know, what actions, what choices do we make for the greater good? But, you know, when does that go from a good action to an evil action? Yeah. And, uh,

And what does it look like when you full sail dismantle a system and descend into chaos? Right. And the interesting thing that we see. Yeah. The interesting thing we see at the very end is it seems that like Zeus, at least Zeus can no longer exert power over Prometheus like he had previously. And there's some, and I believe Prometheus sits on the throne at the very end. In Zeus's robe. Yeah.

So is this, did Prometheus then just bring about the ruin of the family to instigate a completely new system, a similar system with him on top and in charge?

We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. Like, how good is Prometheus at the end of the day? And I... Still a god. Yeah. Still a god at the end of the day. Is he drinking the meander water? So, like, I think there's, like, I like it. It's ambiguous. He's like, this could really go a couple of different ways. My last question, he's like, what do we actually make the fact that he is speaking to, like, directly speaking to us? He's not speaking to...

this world of modern olympians and like it's kind of cool like we we talk about when you're on crete you see like this anachronistic world that like there's pay phones yeah there's there's like things that hint that like it's modern but it's not quite modern yeah and and like we see this similar in other media with like when myth times are represented we usually see like

Fifth century Athens. Myth time represented. We don't see a lot of Bronze Age popping up. And so it's like, I thought that was a really interesting setting. So like, this is very much familiar but removed. And again, Prometheus is not talking to them. He's talking to us. Yeah. Oh.

I think this is what makes the show powerful as well, is that it is directly engaging with the audience and asking the audience to think about the themes. It's not just hinting at it. It's not just like, here's the show. Here's some themes. You're getting a character who is helped orchestrate, not orchestrate, but helped allow the path for this degrading of the system.

You see him interacting directly with us. He is not just telling the story, but he is looking us in the eye and saying to us,

pay attention. Look at this. You know, when Zeus, like I was saying, when Zeus is spouting his bullshit, they're walking along the path of the, of the fountains at Villa d'Est. And he keeps looking, you know, the cameras behind the shoulder. I thought that was such a beautiful shot. Cause it felt like we were walking right behind, you know, sneaking along right there. And he keeps looking back at us just whenever Zeus spouts his bullshit, he's just like, do you hear that? Do you hear that? It's like, what's that? Jim from the office looking at the camera, like, like,

So he is directly asking us, the audience, to think about these things and to engage with these themes and to engage with the story to such an extent that it's not just for funsies and entertainment, but this is something we should be carrying with us. Yeah.

There is something there's something very powerful that that. Yeah. And it's the power of stories, I think, too. It is. And this is something I said in our live audience show, because like one of the last questions we asked is like, what should the audience be taking away from this?

And like, for me, what it was like, it's, it feels like everything's gone to hell by the end of the season. Like, right. Like we're, we're left on a precipice at this point and there's so much possibility. But what, what's really cool is like, there's so much possibility. And we, when we get to talk about the mortal characters, they have just taken control of their own stories. Yep.

And they have the power to do something. And it gives me hope. That felt so empowering. Yeah. It felt like a direct address. It felt like we were being involved in the tale. It wasn't sort of like this patronizing sort of like, look at the world. This is an allegory for patriarchy. It's like, hey, hey,

It's like really say asking us, it's the eye contact, this recognition of the people behind the screen and of us. And I don't know, that's storytelling, you know, and that's just beautiful. That's really good storytelling. Engaging. It's, you know, in it, it's...

It's reminding the viewer that we are people too, in the way that all the people and all the characters in this story are being confronted with either their own humanity or the humanity around them. It's also constantly asking us to, Hey, Hey, Hey, remember you're a part of this. You are also human. You are also capable of these things and all these grand stories. And it's, it pulls us in. We are included in the story, which is something that,

oh god it's you know it's so much fun when you feel like you're a part of it yes yeah there's nothing like watching something where you feel written out of the story yeah yeah and not important not yeah like you know stories for the sake of stories are fun that's great but it's sort of the thing where um it's like when i meet people who say they're apolitical and i'm like how i'm

I made the weirdest face I know, but like, ew. It's the sense where it's everything we do in life exists within some sort of, oh, binary is the only word that's coming up right now, but that's not right.

But within some sort of lens, I guess, you know, how can you can't be apolitical. Everything in life is political. You can't be, you know, you're either for things or you're not. Every sort of story that created has an agenda. Everything has bias. Bias is natural and normal. As long as we're aware of it and willing to change it when confronted with it, you know, that,

it's a reflection of agency. And I think seeing a story that recognizes that, that recognizes the lens and recognizes the bias and recognizes the politicalness of things and directly engages that with the audience. And it's not just saying you're coming along for the ride. It's saying you're a part of the ride. You are in this ship with us is powerful. And yeah,

And Prometheus as the character who does that makes sense to me because within myth, you know, he is the one who he takes care of humans. So this is why I struggle to think of him as a trickster figure, because I don't think trickster figures are supposed to give a shit about humans. They do what they want. Prometheus loves humans.

and he gets fired to humans because he loves them. He makes sure humans get the choice cut of the sacrifice because it's what will sustain them because he loves humans and wants to make sure humans are taken care of. So it makes sense that he is our narrator and he is the one who is pulling us into the story because he is the one who cares about not just the human characters in the story but the human characters on the other side of the screen, outside of it, the us, the viewer.

Oh, an applause. Pour moi? Oh my god. And again, going back to the clip you'll hear from Joel, this is why it's so fun to talk about these things with people. I've just met Mikayla for the first time today, you guys. Look at this beautiful conversation. Oh my god, a friendship is blossoming maybe? A scandalous...

I'll treat you right, baby girl. We've already bonded over cats. Like there was no going back after that. We Gucci. All right. Well, do you have any final thoughts on any of the gods? We definitely get to talk more. I want to be Hera when I grow up. Says the 30, almost 31 year old woman. I want to be her.

Hey, she's a gorgeous woman who looks to be in her 50s or 60s. So you definitely can grow into that. I want that tongue necklace so bad. Like, unfortunately, it is absolutely something I would wear too. I'm like, oh, God, I would love to see Hermes. But that's just me being selfish because I am Hermes. I want to see that. I'm almost a little upset we didn't see Athena because Athena not being on Zeus's side. I'm like, what did he do?

Yeah. What did he do? How did he piss off the one that, you know, one that really thought was gonna. Oh, I remembered my wayward thought that like disappeared forever ago about Hera. I was gonna say Hera to me actually incorporate some aspects of Aphrodite.

in terms of like she also holds power and sway over Zeus because she is the one who actually helps Hera to seduce Zeus Zeus eventually gets pissed off and makes her fall in love with the mortal man to get back at her for making him fall in love with mortal women all the time and I like so like some of the

like the relationships outside of the marriage, because like Aphrodite is known for that too. I feel like that was pulling a bit from Aphrodite into Hera's character. That was the one stray thought that I finally captured. Yay. It came back. If you love it, let it go. This one loves you too. I mean, it is love goddess. So she's like, I want my little bit at the end. Thank you. Aphrodite, it's daddy. Okay.

Oh my god. Out of this, it's Papusa. You know, the Papusa. God, top tier choice for casting, honestly. I can't get over it. It's so good. Oh my god. Yeah, no, I don't think I have really any other thoughts about the gods other than I love them. I love the casting. I know we'll talk more about the fates next time, which I'm so happy about, but all of the fates casting...

So good. Oh, Miss Eddie Izzard herself, our queen. God, made me so happy. Oh, I can't get over it. I'm Polly. Oh, little Polly Femus. I forgot about Polly Femus. Yeah. I, I hope he wasn't in the, you know, the cave at the end. So I,

I like to believe he wasn't. That's a good point. Who knows? I don't think so. It seemed pretty empty. Yeah. I hope so. But yeah, I love it. I love the gods. I definitely have wrote more thoughts about the gods than I did about the people, but that's fine. We've got time. We've got time. I got time to think about it.

I don't know your guys' usual closeout, so I can't fully take over. No, okay. Let me think. Normally, well, I get Liv will go in and do the final credits. Okay. So I guess we kind of just end it.

We just end it like a cliffhanger. Who knows if season two will show up? It will. We promise it will, you guys. We have plans. We'll do it. Yeah, so we'll kind of just be like, peace out, y'all. Back to Liv, y'all. Liv isn't here to say her, you know, I'm Liv and I love the shit. I'm here, though. I'm Mikaela and I'm here, too. I'm Christine.

I'm also here? Hell yeah! Yeah! Make it a trend! The end. Boom!

Now at Verizon, we have some big news for your peace of mind. For all our customers, existing and new, we're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on MyPlan and MyHome. That's future you peace of mind. And everyone can save on a brand new phone on MyPlan when you trade in any phone from one of our top brands. That's new phone peace of mind. Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us,

We got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.

This is Paige, the co-host of Giggly Squad. I use Uber Eats for everything, and I feel like people forget that you can truly order anything, especially living in New York City. It's why I love it. You can get Chinese food at any time of night, but it's not just for food. I order from CVS all the time. I'm always ordering from the grocery store. If a friend stops over, I have to order champagne. I'm always ordering from CVS.

I also have this thing that whenever I travel, if I'm ever in a hotel room, I never feel like I'm missing something because I'll just...

Uber Eats it. The amount of times I've had to Uber Eats hair items like hairspray, deodorant, you name it, I've ordered it on Uber Eats. You can get grocery, alcohol, everyday essentials in addition to restaurants and food you love. So in other words, get almost anything with Uber Eats. Order now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.