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cover of episode This Instability May Be Worth It. Here's Why.

This Instability May Be Worth It. Here's Why.

2025/4/10
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Matter of Opinion

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Oren Cass
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Oren Cass: 我认为你对我们所处的商业周期描述得很好。但是我认为区分商业周期和经济的长期发展轨迹非常重要。我用过一个下坡路上颠簸的比喻。我说,如果你在雪橇下山,你甚至可以越过一个很大的颠簸,在空中翱翔,你知道,尖叫着,哇。然后你仍然会落在更远的地方。我认为我们在美国经济中看到的,已经有50年的时间了,正是这种动态。显然,这不是指整体GDP或经济学家最喜欢的财富和物质生活水平的衡量标准。但是当我们关注普通工薪家庭的实际福祉和繁荣、他们获得中产阶级安全的能力以及我认为与经济机会和结果密切相关的各种社会措施时,我们已经看到了真正的衰退。我认为这有助于解释为什么像唐纳德·特朗普这样的人在政治上取得了如此大的成功。这是一个已经持续了几十年的问题,需要很长时间才能扭转和恢复。但我认为,每次我们在商业周期的顶峰时都说,好吧,失业率,你知道,低于4%,因此问题解决了,失业率一直在那里,你知道,在这个时期的每个商业周期的顶峰。这并没有改变我们面临的更广泛挑战的局面。 Ross Douthat: [观点总结,需根据访谈内容补充]

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Chapters
This chapter challenges the notion that low unemployment and a high stock market equate to a healthy economy. It argues that despite positive economic indicators, the well-being of the typical American family has declined, particularly for young men, highlighting a disconnect between macro-economic data and the lived reality of many.
  • Distinction between business cycle and long-run economic trajectory
  • Decay in well-being of typical working family
  • Divergence in fortunes between workers without college degrees and upper middle class
  • Stagnation in earnings for young men (25-29)

Shownotes Transcript

Is the short-term economic pain of President Trump’s unpredictable approach to tariffs a reasonable price to pay for a more resilient America? Mr. Trump appears to think so, and so does Oren Cass — sort of. On the first episode of “Interesting Times,” the founder and chief economist of the think tank American Compass joins Ross Douthat to discuss and debate the Trump administration’s drastic trade war.

*(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) *

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