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cover of episode What if There’s No Way to Stop Trump’s Approach to Power?

What if There’s No Way to Stop Trump’s Approach to Power?

2025/4/17
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Matter of Opinion
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J
Jack Goldsmith
R
Ross Douthat
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Ross Douthat: 我认为特朗普政府对行政权力的运用是其显著特征之一，它对行政部门、全球经济以及其他政府部门都构成了挑战，并且可能会永久性地改变行政部门。 Jack Goldsmith: 我认为特朗普政府对行政权力的运用达到了前所未有的程度，它既垂直地控制行政部门，也水平地挑战其他机构的制衡。这包括对国会拨款权、法院以及公民社会的挑战。 我被特朗普政府对行政权力的掌控程度以及对法律的解读方式所震惊。他们似乎坚持总统可以决定法律，并且没有独立的法律制衡。 关于美国是否正处于宪政危机，我认为没有一个明确的界限。我们应该关注的是法律对总统的制衡是否显著减弱，而不是寻找一个决定性的时刻。 政府利用《敌国外国人法》驱逐外国人，这在时间和战争状态上都属于极端和新颖的做法。 特朗普政府对行政部门的控制，特别是对联邦支出的控制，在一定程度上得到了保守派最高法院的支持，并且政府在此方面拥有较强的论据。 “单一行政权理论”认为总统对行政部门拥有完全的控制权，特朗普政府正试图将这一理论推向极致。 特朗普政府声称总统拥有对国会拨款的控制权，即所谓的“没收权”，这实际上是对国会权力的一种挑战。 关于特朗普政府的关税政策是否合法，我认为比人们普遍认为的要复杂得多，总统拥有相当大的法理依据。 最高法院在裁决中会考虑政治因素，并选择性地选择案件来应对艰难的政治局面。 如果特朗普政府公然违抗最高法院的明确裁决，最高法院几乎没有有效的强制手段。 如果最高法院默许了特朗普政府的大部分诉求，那么未来总统对行政部门的控制将得到加强，但同时也可能面临新的制约。 如果民主党在2028年赢得大选，他们可能采取报复性措施，而不是限制行政权力。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The Trump administration's aggressive use of executive power is pushing boundaries in unprecedented ways, both vertically within the executive branch and horizontally against other institutions like Congress and the courts. This approach challenges traditional checks and balances, potentially reshaping the executive branch dramatically.
  • Unprecedented use of executive power
  • Vertical and horizontal dimensions of power assertion
  • Challenges to congressional appropriation power
  • Aggressive pushback against courts

Shownotes Transcript

President Trump may forever reshape the boundaries of executive power. This week on “Interesting Times,” Ross and Jack Goldsmith, who was the head of the White House’s Office of Legal Counsel under President George W. Bush, discuss which cases are most likely to win in the courts and permanently expand the executive branch — for better or worse.

  • 00:02:03 Donald Trump’s “moonshot on executive power”
  • 00:04:16 What has surprised Goldsmith the most
  • 00:06:57 Are we in a constitutional crisis?
  • 00:08:59 Alien Enemies Act
  • 00:14:02 The case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia
  • 00:25:23 Godel’s loophole and Supreme Court enforcement
  • 30:10 Trump’s firings of federal employees and restructuring of U.S.A.I.D.
  • 36:11 Trump’s power over congressionally appropriated funding
  • 41:29 Obama v. Trump’s discretion on enforcing laws passed by Congress
  • 43:03 The TikTok case
  • 45:46 Lawsuit over Trump’s tariffs
  • 51:57 How the Supreme Court (maybe) thinks about picking its battles
  • 54:24 Worst case scenarios
  • 56:59 What the Supreme Court can do if the Trump administration does not comply
  • 01:01:32 What a Trump executive power revolution could look like in 2028 and beyond
  • 01:04:39 If Democrats win in 2028, what happens?

*(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) *

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