We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode Culinary Time Machine Battle (ft. Max Miller)

Culinary Time Machine Battle (ft. Max Miller)

2025/5/7
logo of podcast A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich

A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich

AI Deep Dive Transcript
People
E
Elena
J
Josh
著名财务顾问和媒体人物,创立了广受欢迎的“婴儿步骤”财务计划。
J
Josh Ayer
M
Max Miller
N
Nicole Inaidi
Topics
Josh Ayer: 我认为妻子提出的“如果拥有时光机,你会回到哪个时代?”是一个认识人的好方法。这是一个轻松有趣的方式,可以了解人们的喜好和价值观。 此外,我还考虑过回到Chez Panisse餐厅那个年代,以及Jeremiah Tower在Stars餐厅工作的年代,体验当时独特的烹饪风格和文化氛围。 我对1904年圣路易斯世界博览会很感兴趣,因为许多食物都声称在那里发明,这反映了当时美国的扩张主义和文化自信。 我还对威廉·达姆皮尔这位私掠者很感兴趣,因为他记录了亚洲和美洲的食物,包括他最喜欢的火烈鸟。 Nicole Inaidi: 我想回到伍德斯托克,了解那里的食物,以及人们在那个年代对健康饮食和东方食物的尝试。 我曾报道过Coachella音乐节的食物,发现报道和实际情况存在差异,这让我对不同时代人们的饮食习惯有了更深入的思考。 我不喜欢Coachella音乐节,因为它人流拥挤,令人感到不适。 我认为应该举办新的世界博览会,这可以促进不同国家的文化交流。 我对1904年圣路易斯世界博览会的一些令人不安的方面,例如婴儿孵化器展览,感到担忧。 我还对Tex-Mex和Baja墨西哥菜的区别很感兴趣,我认为Tex-Mex菜肴更重口味,而Baja墨西哥菜更注重新鲜食材。 我不喜欢三明治中加番茄,除非是特定的情况,例如美味多汁的夏季番茄。 Max Miller: 如果可以穿越时空品尝美食,我会选择19世纪20年代的英国布莱顿,因为乔治四世国王在布莱顿宫殿举办盛大的宴会,卡里姆大厨负责烹饪,宴会菜单上有70道菜,每一道菜都非常壮观。 我认为历史上富人和穷人的饮食差距比现在大得多。 那个时代的菜肴注重动物的各种部位的烹饪,以及许多果冻模具造型的菜肴。 那个时代的咸味派很吸引人,阉鸡肉质鲜美。 我对1904年圣路易斯世界博览会很感兴趣,因为许多食物都声称在那里发明,但很多说法都是不靠谱的。 我对食物历史上的“新奇”很感兴趣,例如伍德斯托克时期对格兰诺拉麦片的尝试,以及1904年圣路易斯世界博览会上的各种新奇食物。 我认为Baja墨西哥菜更注重使用真正的墨西哥食材。

Deep Dive

Shownotes Transcript

Oh, yeah. Chicken tortilla soup. Forgot about that.

Oh, Savannah chopped salad. Well, now I'm stuck. What are we going to do? How about we just do choose two, mix and match our favorite items. I do like the sound of that. With so much variety at McAllister's, choose two might just be for you. McAllister's Deli. Hey, Nicole, hop in my time machine. Josh, this is a pre-owned Nissan Altima. My God, why are there so many empty cans on the floor? I'll turn this time machine around right now, I swear to God.

This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What?

Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. I'm your host, Josh Ayer. And I'm your host, Nicole Inaidi. And today we have a very special guest who's been making waves with his passion for food, history, and storytelling. You might know him as the host of Tasting History, where he takes us on a delicious journey through time, recreating historic recipes with a side of fascinating trivia. The one and only Max Miller. Max, welcome to the show. That was a good intro. Thank you. Thank you so much. My mom could have written.

It sounds like you're a starlet on the ride. Right? Exactly. He's been making waves. All this stuff about the Nissan Altima, that is based on reality. I'll show you the car afterwards. What year is it? It is pre-owned. It was 2017. It was a good year for Altimas. And just a terrifying amount of cans on the ground.

Been there. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a direct reflection of my mental health at a given time. Didn't you clean it out? Here's the thing about cleaning, Nicole, is it then again gets dirty. Have you thought about not throwing the cans in? Do you have a trash can in your garage?

I have a trash can in my car. The cans just don't end up in it. No, no, no. You don't need the trash can in your car. You need a trash can in your garage so you can unload all the cans into the trash can in the garage. I'll tell you because this podcast is about the state of my car. So what happens is, though, the trash can in the garage is behind a heavy door, and I have a backpack and a gym bag and generally groceries to carry up. So then I'd have to double back.

You're thinking of a dumpster, sweetheart. I'm talking about a garbage can. Is a dumpster not a trash can, Max? It's a trash can. It's a big one. It's too big. Are the cans just like on the floor or have they risen to the point where someone in the passenger seat has to like put their things up? He has risen. I've been in those cars.

I have gotten to that point. It was bad. And when we were filming in the car, too. And then, yeah, Trevor, I think, pivoted the camera down. But right now, we're only at a single layer. Once you start lasagna-ing, that's the problem. Is there a raccoon in here? Literally. This isn't what we're talking about today. Sorry, guys. This is not what we're talking about today. We are talking about what time in history you would travel back to just for the food if you had a time machine. Because...

This is inspired by Julia. She came up with this little party cold open where you just go up. Julia's my lovely wife. That's right. I don't like to use the phrase my wife. It's too bored out of you? No, it's possession-y. My wife. Possession-y. But anyways, she'll go up to people at parties and just say, if you had a time machine, what era would you travel back to? And you speak the language. People don't know that you're a time traveler, so they wouldn't just immediately burn you at the stake. Mm-hmm.

but I think it's a great way to get to know people. Do either of you have any time that sticks out that you would want to travel to? I do. Yeah, I do. Mine's a little, okay. I'm going to be honest. Mine's honestly a little bit out there, but it's because it's not talked about enough and there is research behind it, but I just, I'm curious. So I've always loved going to like music festivals and stuff and people just got back from Coachella and I'm sad that I didn't get to go this year. But, um,

I've always... It's very dusty. Yeah, it is. It's very dusty and sticky. I'm literally still coughing up dust. And like the food scene at like Coachella right now was crazy. Like people were like having like $20 matchas. They were getting Poke Bowls for like 40 bucks, acai bowls, stuff like that. But I want to take it back to Woodstock. I want to go to the Summer of Love. Don't do the brown acid. But let me tell you, I... There's different colors of acid?

Never mind. Okay. Well, I always wanted to go to Woodstock for some reason. And no one ever talks about the food at Woodstock because it was like thousands of people in like the Catskills in New York. And there was like so much love and good energy and music. And Jimi Hendrix was like playing his guitar backwards and doing all the like Star Spangled Banner and stuff. And I just want to know what they were eating. And people say that granola was actually popularized.

At Woodstock. Oh, interesting. People had no food to eat there. They had hot dog stands and like a few other food stands, but they ended up actually burning the stands down because there wasn't enough food and there wasn't enough warmth like within the tent. So they're like, F you guys, we're just going to take apart your stands. Oh my God. And-

Just about that like free love, the 1969, the 1970s and just having fun. And there was so much new food coming out. Like people were all about like veganism and things like tempeh and tofu and like Eastern foods that people have never heard of before were just making their way into like the American zeitgeist.

So I really wanted to go into that time where people were experimenting with health and wellness and kind of being at the precipice of this really, really cool time while also doing a bunch of illegal drugs. I got to say, when I see pictures from Woodstock, health is not the word that comes to mind. Well, health and wellness, maybe not. But it was all about like freedom and like trying new things. And maybe you eat that weird bag of grains in that weird man with the beards tent or

Like, I don't know. There's something about that kind of like there were no rules and there was nothing holding you back during that time. When I now think of concert festivals and like music festivals, there's so much holding you back now because, you know, everybody has their phone. Everybody has like their cameras everywhere. But at Woodstock, it was just like...

no phones really enjoying the moment, you know? Yeah, you couldn't just get naked and slop around in the mud next to an open flame while eating granola. You couldn't do that. You can't do that. Could you imagine? That to me is so much fun. And like just like the brown rice and veggies of it all. I just love so much. And now we've gone through this crazy, like that was like the spectrum of like health foods. But now we've gone to like this crazy like airwondism of fancy, like fancy fresh foods and all this stuff. I don't need that.

I want my food to be crappy, dusty, dirty, messy with a bunch of hippies. And I rest my case. I do feel like you're trying to cheat the system to get a free legendary concert experience. You know what I mean? By saying you're all here for the food. It's research. They go hand in hand, I feel like. I feel like eating tempeh for the first time for American people was so interesting. Did they have tempeh at Woodstock? No.

Have you done the research? No, they had, it was like leading up to it. You know what I mean? That was like a critical turning point in American food. It was like leading up to that moment of like all these cool Eastern foods and all these wonderful unique ingredients that you've never seen before while doing a bunch of like LSD.

It's cool. I like it. There's a really great book that chronicles that era of cuisine called Chefs, Drugs, and Rock and Roll. There you go. And it kind of starts with Alice Waters at Chez Panisse. Sure. And the crazy dinners. That was actually one that I was potentially thinking about, was just going back to that era of Chez Panisse. California chic. This is going to be so niche for everybody here. California chic.

cooking. California cuisine, but when like Jeremiah Tower, if you guys know the name, Jeremiah Tower is one of the most influential chefs in American history. He took over as chef at Chez Panisse, but then he ended up leaving that and starting a restaurant called Stars that was known as like the ultimate 80s party restaurant after that era of free love and experimenting with Eastern cuisine was over, and then that

translated into the kind of Wall Street era. But I thought about like being in Jeremiah Tower's kitchen at Starz while, you know, Michael Douglas was just doing massive amounts of drugs. That would have been something at least. Allegedly. The Douglas family do not come and sue us. But does that sound appealing to you, going to Woodstock for the food? No. Come on!

Woodstock, yes. But for the food... Because I think maybe they didn't have a lot of that stuff there. And we're relying more on the granola and burnt hot dogs. And a lot of people just foregoing food because they're on so many drugs. That's fun. And having problems with dehydration. I bet it wasn't as fun as... I'm making it sound? Yeah. But now I do kind of want to do some research and find out if there are any...

I feel like it wasn't a generation of journalists, like, actually writing their thoughts down. Lots of photos. But maybe there are some things. Hey, yeah, we went and got high and ate cheese. The, like, commodification of...

festivals and culture in that way. That was interesting. So the first time I went to Coachella was 2016 and I went for work as a food journalist. But I was sent there because there were so many of these restaurants. They started doing a like $500 a person dinner in the middle of a field called Outstanding in the Field. And so I got like a free ticket to go to that. And I went and I was, you know, I was with college friends. I was doing some substances. And I'm like at this weird fine dining dinner while like LCD sound system is on stage. Um,

And it was a super bizarre experience for me. And I was supposed to write about that. But instead what I did is I just took my phone and, you know, I was a little bit messed up. But I don't remember a lot of it. But I woke up with 57 interviews with random festival goers on my phone. And I wrote a piece called What Did People Actually Eat at Coachella? Because all of this stuff was coming out like the 10 best bites. We have the truffled grilled cheese from whatever. And I interviewed people and they'd be like, um...

I woke up and I ate 15 wheat thins covered in peanut butter. And then I took Molly and shrooms. And the peanut butter is good because it stops you from passing out.

Right. And it was that. It's probably more like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably exactly what happened. But it's kind of like this fascinating difference between this commodification of food and all these journalists writing about all this fancy stuff and then what people are actually doing, which is like, I'm here to do drugs in public and I'm going to eat enough to not pass out. Did you see that this year they had an omakase experience? Yes.

by Nobu at Coachella this year? It was so bizarre. I was there five days ago. I didn't do the omakase thing, but yeah, we went, we got a $30 poke bowl, the rice was uncooked, the salmon was warm because you're in the 110 degree desert. That's the thing. So, okay. Do you actually enjoy Coachella? Do you actually have a good time? At this age? At this age? Where do you went? I was invited by YouTube to go and I...

flat out said, absolutely not. You should have gone. We could all go. You literally could not pay me enough to do this. There's nothing about it that seems interesting to me. I'm very grateful for YouTube offering me the chance to go to Coachella. No, I had a great time. It was super rough, a lot rougher than when I was like 24 when I went last. Yeah, sure. But for me,

I love the, there were a couple bands, especially down on the ballot that I was really excited about seeing. I played at like 11. No, literally. Yeah. I, we, we missed that cause we had, we have jobs so we couldn't just go on a Friday. Um, but, but, but, but no, I was like, for me, we got in there as soon as the festival started at one because all the bands that I like played at 2 p.m.

And so, you know, you'd start drinking at like one and you'd duck inside this tent and like Swedish punk band Viagra Boys put on the most electric set you've ever seen. DJ G Gola, the techno DJ from Germany was there. Infected Mushroom, you know them. I like, yeah, I do. Watch them play Bob Villain.

For Bob Dylan, you heard of Bob Villain? Not recently, no. No, great punk artist out of Britain. And so for me, getting to see all these artists that I've been listening to for a while in one place was very cool. But once the night falls and it just becomes this crowd crush, it was like a little bit frightening. I don't know if I could do another Coachella. I don't know if I have it in me.

Spring always gets me in the mood for fresh starts, cleaning out closets, planting something new, and this year, I'm diving into a new language with Rosetta Stone. You know what that was, Nicole? That was you speaking...

Excellent Spanish. That was me trying my best. But I think there's something really exciting about the idea of traveling somewhere and actually speaking the language, ordering food, chatting with locals. It's a totally different experience when you can truly connect, which is why I used Rosetta Stone before going to Mexico recently, and I was able to talk about Oaxacan food with a wonderful chef that I met. That's so awesome. Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years, and their immersive approach actually helps you absorb everything

and retain a new language naturally, whether you're on your desktop or learning on the go with the app. What I love most is the True Accent speech recognition feature. It gives you real-time feedback on your pronunciation, so you sound way, way more natural. Plus, there's no translation crutch. It trains you to think and speak in your new language from the start.

Did you know that? I was literally Googling jitomate a few days ago trying to find out what a jitomate is. And I learned that because I was in Mexico. Oh.

Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. A Hot Dog is a Sandwich listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's right. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettastone.com slash hotdog to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to rosettastone.com slash hotdog and start learning today.

I'm Emma Greed and I've spent the last 20 years building, running and investing in some incredible businesses. I've co-founded a multi-billion dollar unicorn and had my hand in several other companies that have generated hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. The more success I've had, the more people started coming to me with questions. How do you start a business? How do you raise money? How do I bounce back from failure? So it got me thinking, why not just ask the people I aspire to the most? How do they actually do what they do?

I'm so incredibly lucky to know some of the smartest minds out there. And now I'm bringing their insights along with mine, unfiltered directly to you. On my new podcast, Aspire With Emma Greed, I'll dive into the big questions everyone wants to know about success in business and in life.

Through weekly conversations, you'll get the tangible tools, the real no BS stories and undeniable little hacks that actually help you level up. Listen to and follow Aspire With Emma Greed and Odyssey podcast available now, wherever you get your podcasts.

I think I'm just like old and grumpy because I don't even like going to the Hollywood Bowl anymore because I'm slightly uncomfortable for several hours. I can't do a whole weekend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have like a lot of life left to live. I know. Where does it go from here? And I wanted to be very comfortable.

As you should. As you should. With little dust and little sun. He's going to move into a convalescent home when he's like 45. No, no, no, no. We just got to do like Coachella light, you know? We got to go to one that like has like a good seating area with the little streamers of water so you don't pass out. We used to have LA Coachella. It was called FYF. It was great. I used to go to FYF every year. FYF was awesome. You take the train there, you're back home by nine. I used to go to FYF every year.

Every single year, and then they canceled the Janet Jackson one, and then they never did it again. I saw Mitski there in 2015. It was incredible. Me too! Oh my god! Max, if you were to travel to one point in history to eat the food, what would it be? I think I would go back to England, specifically Brighton. Okay. In, I think it's the 1820s. Interesting. There was this period of time at the Brighton Pavilion.

where the future King George IV, he was the regent at the time, was...

He was there, and he was like a party animal. He loved having these huge parties. He loved having huge feasts. He was, I mean, he was grossly overweight with gout and still just consuming massive amounts of food because his chef at the time was Karim. Oh, snap. Like one of the greatest French chefs of all time. He was working at the Brighton Palace, and he would have hundreds and hundreds of people have these huge, huge feasts, but the whole palace has like...

four or five bedrooms. Ooh. Because I didn't want people staying over. Makes sense. I wouldn't want people staying over either. It's why Queen Victoria, who enjoyed it there, she ended up like not, she pieced out, this was later on obviously. Where is Brighton geographically? So it's just kind of like straight south of London, right on the water. It's a lovely sea town. Very big during this era, during the Georgian era. And the pavilion is really interesting because it,

does not fit in. It looks like it should be part Turkish, part Chinese. Interesting. Part English, maybe? And then... And so it's, like, got these, you know, the turban domes or the, like, onion domes and stuff. But it's beautiful and...

and really quite opulent, and the kitchens are phenomenal. But these meals, there are menus from the time, and they'll have like 70 dishes that would all be trotted out for one dinner, and every single one of them, they have pictures, and every single one of them is more spectacular than the last. Regardless of how they taste, just looking at them, that's why I would want to go. Mm.

It's so funny looking back to basically any era older than like 150 years ago and the gap between what rich people ate and what poor people ate was so much wider than it is now. And listen, I'm all for democratization of like all things...

However, bring back wild aristocratic cuisine because even now, like, the richest people in the world, they're not eating that differently from us. You know what I mean? Like, we have the ability – you can go to Coachella and go to the Nobu Omikase menu that's, like, not that much farther than what a sultan might be eating. You know what I mean? Sure. You're doing it at Coachella after watching Gaga. Sure. Like –

That is really the stuff of dreams of just having an entire like literal brigade of French chefs just doing your bidding. What were like the dishes that you would be most excited to eat, like the style of cuisine back then?

The most excited to eat or the most excited to see? Either or. A lot of it was like how many grotesque but impressive things can we do with an animal and its bones? So there is that. There is that. But I think like visually I love they have all these amazing molds that are basically gelatin molds. Love a good aspic. But they weren't always aspic. They could be other things, you know, that were like molded into these amazing shapes.

There's one called a Macedoine, which is just like layer upon layer. It looks like a castle. Oh, my God.

Filled with fruit and gelatin. The thing is, I don't like gelatin. So I don't actually want to eat these things, but I love looking at these things. Though there is something called a flummery, which I really do like. And it is made with gelatin, but it's also made with cream. So it tastes more like a creamy. Like a panna cotta. Yeah, like a panna cotta. It's exactly like a panna cotta. Whereas like just pure see-through gelatin.

Not my jam. But I think that, like, food-wise, what I would want to eat would be the pies. The savory pies. Where it's like, we're going to put...

I don't know, an entire capon chicken or something like that into this pastry along with a bunch of gravy and vegetables. I mean, it's basically a really, really fancy chicken pot pie. Yeah. Chicken pot pie. Capons are the most underrated animal to eat. No one talks about capons anymore. No.

No. Capon, it's a neutered rooster that they fatten up over time and let it actually grow to maturity. They're huge. They're huge. I made capons. We got them for work cooking some historical dish, I'm sure. Or maybe it was Fancy Fest. I can't remember. We got them for work and we had three leftover capons and I roasted them for Thanksgiving. Incredible. Great meat. They're really expensive, though. I know. I think that's why. I think I bought one and it was like 70 bucks.

It's a lot of meat, though. Worth it. It is, but you could also buy, like, three chickens. You're so right. Yeah, yeah, you're so right. Also, turkeys are way too cheap. We need to talk about the price of turkeys. I don't like turkey that much. I'd rather eat a capon than a turkey any day. I feel like turkey prices have to be subsidized. I reckon they probably are. It's, like, such an American food. I don't know that for a fact, but I— No, it is. I mean, I don't know about the subsidies, but, yeah, turkeys being, like, a native American bird. And then, you know the story about, like, turkeys became known as turkeys? Yeah.

Have you done anything about this? - I have and I can't remember. I forget what I've researched about a week after I've researched. Once I make the video, it's out. - The things that really make an impression stick, you know? - Right now everything is the papal conclave of 1549 and I know nothing else. - All right, people. - Oh God, I gotta watch Conclave. But it had something to do with like,

The birds were stuck in a port city, and people, it was a port city in Turkey, and people saw the birds and named them turkeys, but they weren't even American turkeys. They were like Ethiopian guinea fowls. And then people were like, hey, you messed up this thing. And so it's this weird mistake on a mistake on a mistake that ended up with them being called turkeys, and they were literally just like an ancient Aztec bird that people used to kill and eat. I can actually tie that to the papal conclave of 1549. Nice.

Because the cook at that conclave was Bartolomeo Scappi, who wrote this massive – he was like the first celebrity chef in Europe. Sick. And he made this huge book of all of the recipes, and it includes the first written recipe in Europe for – or anywhere – for turkey. No way. How interesting. Which was a brand new bird. He actually – he also had like –

American-style pumpkins, and a lot of other ingredients that were brand new. That is genuinely, like, when you talk about what history, what historical era you'd want to go back to, I think one of the things I'm really attracted to is the idea of newness. Anytime there's, like, an excitement around something, right, I think is really cool. It's like Woodstock, you know, excitement about granola or whatever. Yeah.

But to me, like, the most exciting time in at least, like, the modern history of food was the 1904 World's Fair in St. Louis. Oh, the World's Fair. The Louisiana Purchase Exposition. Hear me out. So, like...

Every time you hear about the hamburger, the hot dog, the waffle cone, iced tea, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich, there's always some sort of link back to the 1904 World's Fair. And all of those foods, like, claim to have been invented there. And all of the claims have been absolutely debunked. Yeah.

But also the fact that there are these very specific stories. So there's the hot dog myth that Antoine Feuchtwanger was just serving Frankfurter-style sausages with white gloves inexplicably to all his customers. And then his white gloves ran out and he went, oh, God, I have to find bread to put it in.

And then there was a conveniently oblong bun maker next to this man. Does anyone have more white gloves? No, but I have this. Literally. And like none of it makes any sense. Ditto with an ice cream vendor. They just copied the hot dog myth. There was an ice cream vendor that ran out of cups. And there was a Syrian waffle vendor, Ernest Homby, who was next to him. And he just went, I can make an ice cream vessel. And the waffle cone was invented. Syrian named Ernest.

Same thing with a guy named Old Dave Davis claims to have invented the hamburger there. A man named Richard Bleschenden claims he invented iced tea despite there were accounts of it going back 50 years. But the fact that, like, the 1904 World's Fair was such a massive thing, there were 19 million visitors.

Wow. Wow.

before World War I, it had just gotten sort of into the neocolonialization movement. So, like, you know, we'd kind of just annexed the Philippines from Spain at this time. And so there was this big idea that, like, America is now a world player and we need to show it in St. Louis, America's fourth largest city at the time.

And so they put so much effort into this. There was something called the Grand Tyrolean Restaurant that seated 3,000 people and had replicas of the Alps there. Yeah.

There's something called the Palace of Agriculture, where there are two acres of space devoted to all the cereals, tubers, coffee, tea, meat, eggs, spices, beer, whiskey. And the official guidebook promised everything else used as food or drink by mankind. Wow. So it was this, like, way for America to try and show the entire world that, like, this is who we are as a country. We're an agricultural nation. We are a nation of culture and cuisine. And also they...

There were some upsetting parts of the World's Fair. Oh, yeah? So, yeah, a lot of babies died, but we don't have to get into that. Why? So, they... Okay, so... You can just throw that out there. But we don't have to get into that. Well, there's all the foods. You can try the first hot dog. But, yeah, yeah, there was, like, a lot of scientific sort of expositions. Oh! And one of them was baby incubators had just been invented. Oh. The problem is they used real babies in the exhibit. Oh, no! And they didn't hire any doctors to watch over them. Oh.

And so there's a lot of really upsetting things to the 1904 World's Fair, but also a lot of very, very exciting things. And that's why I'd want to be there.

I said I wouldn't talk about the dead babies. Then there you go. Talk about it again. I would love to visit a World's Fair. Either that one or the one in Chicago. 1893, yeah. Yeah. And that's where a lot of foods came out of that as well. I think that's why everyone felt emboldened in 1904 to just start lying. Yeah. Because they knew all of the 1893. Well, and I don't even know that the foods were necessarily invented, but that is where they got...

popularized because it was like, yes, I invented the cereal and now I'm going to put this cereal out And I had no way to tell people about it. But now I can. Because there was no TikTok. You have to go to a World's Fair. When was the most recent World's Fair? Was it 1904? Was there any other ones? I think it was like 64 in New York. There might have been one after that, but that's the last one that I know of. And that was a really cool one because

So you can still go and see a lot of the buildings in Queens from when it happened. But Walt Disney offered to build all of these different companies their showcases. Oh, interesting. And he said, and I'll do it for free. Oh. You have to pay for the materials, but I'll do it for free. Wow. But then I get it when the fair is done. Oh, like the IP of it. The physical things. Oh, gosh. So things that came out of that were things like

The Tiki Tiki Tiki Room. Oh, wow. It's a small world. I believe that was...

Kodak or something. No way. That was there. The Autopia. That was, I believe, General Motors. And so he built them for those and then took them and put them in Disneyland. What? It was a brilliant business. It really is. I just went to Epcot for the first time like two weeks ago. I want to go to Epcot. And I love these like proto-utopian visions of the future, especially as it relates to food. You know, and Epcot is just like chock full of all that. I wish I could go to Epcot.

When you learn what Epcot was meant to be, it breaks your heart of what it is. I actually really enjoy Epcot now, but it was meant to be, it was a prototype for a communal city that would be self-sustaining. Yeah. And that was his dream, was to actually have this be a thing. But then he died, and the people left in charge of the company were like, well, let's build it, but instead...

Let's do the showcase of the world. The world showcase. Instead, we're going to charge Josh $15 a drink, and he's going to drink at all 11 countries. It's like the same name, Epcot, but it was the something prototype community of tomorrow. Experimental prototype community of tomorrow. And then what it ended up being is just so different. Like I said, I enjoy it. That's so interesting. I love doing that drink around the world, but...

It's like, this was not what it was supposed to be. Well, Sugar Ray performed there when I was there. So if it had been an actual self-sustaining community, then I don't think I would have gotten to see Mark McGrath while like drinking. I think I drank a Brunello di Montalcino from the Italy section on a 104 degree day in Orlando, Florida. It was boiling. Sounds sticky. I'll only go in January or February.

No, I'm not joking. God forbid Max is slightly uncomfortable from the heat. All about comfort. He's going to get the vapors. You would fit in in the Victorian era. Just a dandy fainting every day. I think we should do another World's Fair. I think the people want it. The people crave it. You know what? I think it brings countries together. Yeah. I think it does. I think it's time for us to reinstate it. Us three. I think so. I'm just laughing. Thinking of all...

all of the insanity in the 1904 World's Fair. So much of it was anytime there's like an Olympics or any massive international event, it's always like some form of propaganda depending on how you view the term propaganda, right? But this was very much like America trying to assert its superiority and like

There were a couple pretty upsetting expositions. One was just Geronimo. He was just a 75-year-old man. And they had Geronimo basically being there being like, yep, the white man conquered me. Do you want to buy an autographed hat? And that was actually just an exhibition that was there. It's a paycheck. Literally, hey, we all got to work. And so I feel like I don't know what that looks like in a modern World's Fair exhibition.

You know what I mean? AIs and holograms. Wow. Also, there's still that, like you said with the Olympics, there is still that aspect of nationalism and everything, but...

But then I got to see Gojira play the opening ceremony of the Olympics, and that was sick. Do you remember that? You know what I'm talking about? The metal band that had the decapitated Marie Antoinette? Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. So that was cool of France to do. You were there? No, on TV. I was watching TV, and I was like, oh, my God, this is one of my favorite metal bands. You have one of those? What? A TV? Yeah, I got a TV. If I can offer one more alternate historical period that I think we would all really enjoy going on this adventure together.

William Dampier. Oh, yeah. I don't know who that is. William Dampier. Except then you have to live on a ship. Yeah, Max is out. Max is out. Talk about uncomfortable. Is he a pirate? He was a privateer. A privateer. A pirate with sanctioned papers for piracy.

But he was the first person to describe to a European audience chopsticks, barbecue, and guacamole. Yeah. And he also took extremely detailed notes and journaled about all his favorite animals to eat. And he had just like hundreds and hundreds of notes on like armadillo kind of ass. And his favorite animal of all was the flamingo. Yum. Flamingo, yeah. And I would love to eat flamingo. Max will bring some back. We'll dry it in the jerky and bring it back to your beautiful palatial estate.

Mingo, I believe he also really enjoyed Galapagos Torrent. No! Are they still around? There's got to be a color. There are. Okay, good. You're not allowed to eat them anymore. Yeah, fair point. Well, thanks, cancel culture.

Spring is finally here and that means more time for adventures, fresh air, and doing what you love, not spending hours in the kitchen. That's why I love Factor. They're fresh, ready to eat meals, just take two minutes to heat up so I can fuel up fast and get back to my day. I just had the truffle butter filet mignon and it was, oh my gosh, incredible. It tasted like something from a restaurant but without any of that tedious work. I especially love the potato leek mash.

And with 45 menu options, I can mix it up every week, whether I'm going for Protein Plus, Keto, or Calorie Smart Meals.

I've been super busy juggling family, work, and a really active social life. So using a service like Factor has really made life a bit less complicated for me. Especially when I'm running around putting out fires all day at work, literally and figuratively. Factor isn't just for dinner. They've got delicious breakfast, quick lunches, and even snacks and desserts, all made with quality ingredients and no hassle.

It's easier to savor more this spring. Factor Meals pack in the flavor with none of the fuss. Get started at factormeals.com slash hotdog50off and use code HOTDOG50OFF to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. That's code HOTDOG50OFF at factormeals.com slash HOTDOG50OFF for 50% off plus free shipping.

This episode is brought to you by Nerds Gummy Clusters, the sweet treat that always elevates the vibe. With a sweet gummy surrounded with tangy, crunchy Nerds, every bite of Nerds Gummy Clusters brings you a whole new world of flavor. Whether it's game night, on the way to a concert, or kicking back with your crew, unleash your senses with Nerds Gummy Clusters.

Take your plans out of the group chat and get long weekend ready in new Abercrombie. From day to night, pack new outfits for every part of your itinerary. Grabbing brunch? Throw on the A&F Mila dress. Then head to your dinner reservation in their new Bubble Hem mini dress. And yes, permission to overpack for pics with the girls. Abercrombie's best-selling Scarlet Squirt deserves a post in your feed. Your plans are worth it. Shop

Shop Abercrombie's new long weekend collection online or in store. All right, y'all. Now it's time for a segment where me, Nicole, and Max put our food trivia knowledge to the test. It's time for our very own trivia segment called... Yummy in my tummy got some trivia for you. Robot Maggie has three questions prepared. Nicole and Max, you and I will wait until the question is complete and then we will answer. If wrong, the other person gets the chance to steal and earn the point. Let's hear that first question.

Which movie permanently changed movie marketing tie-ins with a landmark product placement deal for Reese's Pieces peanut butter candies? Ding. Give it to Max. E.T., The Extraterrestrial. The correct answer is E.T. I did not know. The Extraterrestrial. The Extraterrestrial. I did the E.T. ride at Universal in Orlando. What did you say your name was?

Oh, I said my normal name. Are you supposed to lie? Where is your whimsy? I don't know. You have to say something funny. Like butt ass or something? Like butt face or like something. Thank you, butt ass, for saving our planet. Yeah. But it was such a nice time because the animatronics and all the set.

building it's like all of these virtual simulator fast and furious rides where you're just like on a makes you want to bust in there yeah oh my god it makes you nauseous yeah i love the et ride they used to have the et right here i know they loved it yeah they killed it well never seen the movie oh it's good it's good the u.s military contracted with a sweets manufacturing company to produce witch candy for world war ii troop rations ding what is a hershey bar

The correct answer is Tootsie Roll. I'm sorry. Really? For World War II? I didn't know that. But Tootsie Rolls predate World War II, right? I don't know. I'm pretty sure they do. Robot Maggie, back to the lab, Robot Maggie. Hershey bars definitely existed before that, but they did work with Hershey to produce the de-rationed chocolate bar, which was...

to taste worse than the actual Hershey bar because the problem was it was supposed to be like your emergency ration. This is the last thing that will, because it would last forever. I see, I see. But the first ones, they tasted so good that the soldiers would eat that first and then everything left for emergencies. Silly soldiers. Put some sawdust in it. So they literally made it less palatable. That's so funny. Oh man, wartime. And they never changed it back.

oh no i'm just kidding rishi give you give you a hard time by the 1700s infirmaries and apothecaries began prescribing what type of oil as a cure-all for a wide array of conditions rheumatism rickets joint pains colds and to help heal wounds ding i'm gonna say castor oil the correct answer is cod liver oil cod liver oil well is that the same as fish oil

Specifically the fish cod. Yeah, no. No, you know whenever you get fish oil things? That's cod liver. Oh, is it? I don't know. I'm asking you guys.

I don't know. Every time I have fish oil like tablets... It probably is. It says... Some say fish oil, some say cod liver oil. Have you heard of something called Ulichon? Or Ulichon oil? Or Ulichon grease? Never. Somebody asked me the question. They were like, if people render...

pork fat into lard and beef fat into tallow, chicken fat into schmaltz. Do people ever like render fish fat into a usable fat? And I had no idea. And so I started doing some research. And apparently in like indigenous communities, specifically in like British Columbia area, there was a massive trade of something called uli changri. So they would take a bunch of like needlefish, these like small oily fish, and they would just put them in this giant vat. They would pour boiling water on it.

and then evaporate the water and strain off the grease. And it was like a massive trade thing. Awesome. And I heard some people talking about it, and they were like, why don't we eat that today? And they're like, oh, tastes awful. Spoils really quickly. But also if you're living in the cold, and that's part of your diet. But yeah, not a big market for fish grease these days. All right, Nicole and Max, we've heard what you and I have to say. Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the universe. It's time for a segment we call Opinions Are Like Casseroles.

We're firing it all cylinders. How so? Everyone's got one and they smell like onions. Terrible. I'll never get over that. Who approved that? You did? Yeah, I literally remember in a pitch meeting, I just blurted out opinions are like casseroles. And it stuck five years later. Here we are. Here we are. How many episodes? A couple hundred? I don't know, like maybe 200? Yap a lot.

Hell yeah, dude. We've been speaking to each other for 254 episodes? God. This has to stop. Ugh. All right, let's get to that first opinion.

Hey guys, this is Elena. I'm from Arlington, Texas. Go Rangers! Woo! But I've recently been living in San Diego with my friend that's from North County. There you go, Padres. And we've been having this conversation time and time again. But what are the main differences between Tex-Mex and Baja Mexican food? See, I think Tex-Mex is spicier and a little more cheesy, but she thinks that Baja Mexican food is just like more

more seafood based. Anyway, please help us out. What's the main differences and which one do you like more? All right. Love everything the Mythical Kitchen does. Bye. Bye. That's cute. Max, do you have any feelings about this? I mean, I think seafood is a big, it is a big difference, but I also think that the cheese that they tend to use is a big difference. That's right. Tex-Mex, I feel, uses American style like cheddar cheese. Right. Whereas Baja uses like cotija and stuff like that.

I feel like Baja style relies more on actual Mexican ingredients, whereas Tex-Mex relies more on more Americanized ingredients. And it's interesting when you're talking about this because what is America and what is Mexico was very different when a lot of these foods were even invented. It's all Mexico. It's all Mexico. Surprise, it's all Mexico. So I grew up partly in North County, San Diego and Oceanside. If I had to guess as to why...

the cuisines are different because they are. They're both Norteño, so there's a lot of wheat grown in both parts, so a lot more flour tortillas used there than if you went to like the Yucatan, right? But there is like this distinct difference where I feel like Tex-Mex food is known as being a lot heavier, right? It's a lot of like carne guisada, a lot of stews, heavy like conch,

like combination plate style food covered in shredded yellow cheese. And I'm wondering if that's because the communities there created their own Tejano identities a lot more than say Southern California, where I feel like there is more cultural diffusion and there's like a faster rate of immigration and emigration. Yeah.

So I was talking to a Mexican food writer who made the claim that L.A. actually has the most diverse Mexican food scene in the entire world. Oh, wow. They're like, there are more regions of Mexico represented in L.A. than in Mexico City. Oh, no way. And they're like, because you have so many people that are moving to Los Angeles who maybe had to flee their homes or maybe just emigrated out for more opportunity. And he's like, if you go to Mexico City, there's a lot of their own biases where maybe a Oaxacan person goes there, tries to open a Oaxacan restaurant, and they're like,

We don't want that crap here. Whereas you can go to LA and find your community that has that. And so I'm thinking that maybe Southern California has like a faster immigration-emigration pattern. And there's maybe more like Tejano families that have lived there for a while that have created sort of its own unique food style.

But that's just my guess. For me, I don't know. My mind immediately went to Mediterranean food versus mainland Turkish food. I don't know why I had that side-by-side comparison. I think it's the freshness of, like you said, it's ingredient-based. It's a lot of fresh veggies, a lot of fresh proteins, things that are more fresh. And then whenever you go to Mediterranean,

more mainland. It's more like heavier, more heavy duty foods. Lots of things that like you eat in the morning and it satiates you all the way until nighttime. So that was my kind of one-to-one comparison of Tex-Mex versus Baja versus...

Turkish food and Mediterranean food. Yeah. Like a lot of my favorite food is like Baja Californian food, like Sinaloan style, like Mariscos is like one of my favorite things. You go to San Diego, like TJ Oyster Bar is one of my favorite restaurants of all time. They have a lot of like cool Sinaloan specialties. Mariscos Herman is a great food truck doing fish tacos. And so, yeah, also water, like ports just have more cultural diffusion. Sure. Yeah. More diverse food stuff. Naturally.

That's interesting, though. I've never really thought about that. And I love both. That's the thing. It'd be hard. One will make me nap. Right, right, right, right. But I love both. I agree. As long as I can have a cold beer with either, I'm in. Same. I'm in.

Hi, guys. Love the pod. I am listening to the Taco Bell versus Del Taco episode and the little bit of trivia at the end where one of the questions was about German chocolate cake and where does it come from? Oh, I remember this. I think it's a really interesting history. So German chocolate cake came about because a housewife wrote in a recipe to her local newspaper for

German's chocolate cake because German's chocolate was a specific kind of baking chocolate. And the recipe got really, really popular. Everybody loved it. Eventually they dropped the apostrophe S and it just became German chocolate cake. So that's a really interesting origin story, in my opinion, just a little food history. And then my specific, maybe controversial opinion is that tomato and peanut butter goes really well together. One of my favorite snacks is a really good

seedy whole wheat bread like with sunflower seeds is the best with a good schmear of peanut butter and two slices of really ripe summer tomatoes with salt and pepper on top. It is the best.

Again, love the pod. Thank you guys so much. That sounds like one of those, you know, whenever like a new food product is invented, they hire just a massive amount of like, especially back in the day, like women's magazine writers to be like, write us a three ingredient recipe. New fangle with, with miracle whip with, you know, stuff like that. That sounds like one of the OG peanut butter recipes. Yeah. You know, that said, I think peanut butter is,

can do no wrong. I love peanut butter so much that I'm like, have I had it with? So the thing is, I have had it with tomatoes and it was not good, but it was not in that style. It was a recipe from, I want to say the teens, the 19 teens, for a peanut butter and tomato soup that was served at schools around America. It was not delicious. That sounds good to me.

Yeah, you'd think. Because there is a type of soup from West Africa that is that, and it tastes good. Mafe, yeah. It does not taste good. And I think it simply has to do with ratios. Sure. Yeah, certainly. So... Yeah, also like hundreds and hundreds of years of food culture being developed, you know what I mean? So my aunt is actually Senegalese, and I grew up eating... She just called it peanut sauce or mafe all the time. And to me, it is like...

One, if anybody has any weird peanut butter opinions, I'm like, you got to try this West African stew. So good. One of the best foods in the world. So good. She makes her own like habanero hot sauce, like preserved in mustard oil. The way the like oil sits on top of it, it's like tinged red from the tomato paste. Yeah, the palm oil too. So sexy. I would eat the peanut butter sunflower bread tomato sandwich. I really would. But what I would do is I would add some like,

heavy like malden salt and then some crushed red pepper on it and I think I would absolutely love it

See, I don't like tomato on my sandwiches, so that's my thing. Sometimes I need it. No, because they tend to be, they add too much moisture to the sandwich. I'm here for the wet. Yeah, see, I don't like that. Sometimes I need it. Sometimes, like, I have a BLT once a year. Like, I need the tomato to be the most delicious, gorgeous, juicy, wet tomato of all time. Sometimes I have, like, a mayonnaise and tomato sandwich, like a fresh summer tomato. Mm-hmm.

So good. Yeah, mayonnaise, tomato, salt, and pepper is maybe the best sandwich ever. It's got to be Duke's mayonnaise. And on white bread. And on white bread, yeah. Not like Wonder Bread. Not toasted. Not Wonder Bread, though. No, no, but not toasted. But like a middle of the road. Country, yeah. Country loaf. Not like an artisanal sourdough that's going to be too hard. No, no, a country loaf. Nice country loaf. Country loaf. German chocolate cake. Do you know anything about the history of German chocolate cake? This is so cool. No, but it kind of reminds me of Ruth's Chris. Do you know? No. I know nothing about this. So I used to work for Ruth's Chris. Oh, no way. In college.

And we had to learn the history. And it was originally, it was from New Orleans and it was called Chris's Steakhouse. Okay. And then Ruth Fertel bought it and she was like, well, now this is Ruth's Chris's Steakhouse. And eventually people were like, too many apostrophes. Yeah. Let's get rid of one. Grammar police. I think they got rid of the wrong one because Ruth's Chris's Steakhouse makes no sense. Sounds weird. Ruth Chris's Steakhouse would make it sound like her name was Ruth Chris, but at least it

Rolls off the tongue a little bit better. But I get the dropping of the apostrophe S with German's chocolate cake. That's just like, German chocolate cake. Yeah. It feels like a loss for the German chocolate company, though. You know what I mean? It is, but whatever. Are they around anymore? So clearly, they needed the advertising. Are Ruth's Chris's around anymore?

Oh, there's one down the street. Is there? Yeah, they actually just redid one out. I like never explore Burbank. They're definitely bleeding cash, though. They're definitely one of those companies that you're going to hear about where they're like, well, they have $450 million in corporate debts. I just read a headline about that with Jack in the Box today. I don't know. They charge like $80 for a filet mignon now. It's nuts. There used to be one in Beverly Hills, I remember. But that's the only Ruth's, Chris, I've ever seen in real life. How many are there? Are you Googling it?

Yeah, I just searched Ruth's Chris bankrupt and it turns out they're not. But they just seem like they're the next one to go bankrupt. You know what I mean? Maybe they're thriving and I don't know. I honestly don't know. Well, if they're going to get rid of Forever 21, Ruth's Chris Steakhouse must be this. Well, it just depends. Does private equity buy them?

And if so, then they will go out of business because that's what private equity does. They did it to Toys R Us. They've just done it to Joanne's Fabrics. Oh, not Joanne's. Yeah, I know. I went to the blowout sale. I'm so sad. I was sad to hear what I did. I go to Joanne Fabrics all the time. I love Joanne Fabrics. I love to craft. Oh, no. Ruth Chris is owned by Darden.

Yeah, that's going to be tough. So Darden is like they owned at some point they've given them up now, but they own like Olive Garden and Red Lobster and Longhorn Steakhouse. And they're like all had problems. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they've given those up. But Ruth's Chris might be the thing that they're really holding on to. Well, interesting. Private equity saved McConnell's ice cream.

It's like the one story that like private equity is like, we did one good thing. It's like, it's like, don't look over here. That's their PowerPoint presentation. It's literally that. In like the GMO circles, it's like the papaya thing in Hawaii where they're like, Hawaii wouldn't have papayas if not for GMOs. And then it's just like, what's Monsanto doing? And they're like, don't worry. We got room for one more, Jamie. One more. Yeah. The clue that is not German is the coconut. Yeah.

Could have fooled me. Hey, Josh and Nicole. My name is Josh. Say hi to Matt. I was wondering, why is it that when these foods are brought to America, Japanese cuisine is kind of treated as a very fancy dish

like high-end thing where going to a ramen store or going to a sushi place is always a very kind of an expensive affair. But Chinese food is very cheap, very affordable, bought in bulk, and it's kind of just like

like basically fast food. I'm wondering if you have any input as far as the food history of these two disparate Asian cuisines and why they fill two much different cultural niches in America. Thanks. Bye.

You have feelings. I have a lot of feelings, but this is a very, very, very deep topic. It's very complicated. Yes. Well, first, so he mentioned sushi. Right there, that's the reason. Sushi is expensive because fish is just more expensive than pork. And the expensive ramen thing is very, very new. That's new. And that, I think, has to do more with marketing. And a lot of the Chinese, first of all, it is...

just generally has more history in America. There was a larger population and there was a lot more racism. They both had a lot of racism. But the Chinese had a lot of racism specifically about their food and the cleanliness and everything that I just think

really went away in a way. Yeah. There was a much bigger earlier wave of Chinese immigration and then there was a kind of second wave of post-World War II Japanese immigration into America. And also at this time, there's this weird period in American history in the 70s and 80s of like

Japanophilia, but also Japanophobia. Sure, yeah. Where we were so worried. Remember, we were talking to Terry Crews, who grew up in Flint, where he was like, if you drove a Japanese car on the street, we'd firebomb you. Yeah, yeah. Right? Because they were so afraid of Japanese industrial capacity, and then there became all these weird...

this weird myth-making about Japanese culture and, oh, it's all about respect and the artisan and its precision and all this. And so that, like, built the myth up in the food as well. Sure. You hear people talk all about, you know, you watch Jiro Dreams of Sushi, and it's like for every Jiro in Japan, there's also a 7-Eleven selling, like, you know, deep-fried cheese-filled, you know, fish cakes. Yep. So I think we've had this weird myth-making, and a majority of the sushi restaurants in L.A. for at least a long time

were owned by Korean families. Yes. Because they knew that people had this idea that they'd spend a lot more money on Japanese food. And that's sushi, but it's also chicken teriyaki is going to be more expensive than, you know, getting...

The Chinese equivalent, roughly. And so like Korean families, like, well, nobody really knows what Korean food is. So we're going to just sell sushi to white people at an insane premium. And so there's this weird like kind of model minority myth stratification of Asian cultures that I don't think is explicit for a lot of people. But then when you really break it down and like see the economics of it, it's one of the most fascinating food topics to me. And I wish I was more educated on it.

We can do a whole episode on it if you want. You can come back and talk about it. You want to do that? I think it's not just Japanese and Chinese. I think it's French food. The ingredients are not necessarily more expensive or anything than German food, Italian food. But it always costs two or three times as much. Tapas. Don't get me started on tapas. Oh my goodness. You can eat for an hour, spend $200 and still be hungry. True.

No, true. I had ramen yesterday that tasted like hot Cheetos. That's all I have to say. I literally went to a restaurant, sat down and had ramen that had literal red, like it was literal hot Cheeto dust on top of it. And I was like, all right, this is where we are now. It was good. The chef had seen that on one of those like cooking competition things. He probably saw it on our show. Yeah. And he was like, that looks good. The audience liked it.

All right. Well, that's our time. Max, thank you so much for joining us. It's an absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me. Where can people find you, Max? Tasting History on YouTube is probably the best place. Tastinghistory.com website. Find him at a nice shaded bar by a beach. Yes, anywhere where the sun is not. Just any beach. Any.

Thank you all for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. We got audio-only episodes every Wednesday and a video version here on YouTube every Sunday. If you want to be featured on Opinions or like Castrol's, hit us up at 833-DOGPOD1. The number again is 833-DOGPOD1. Max, have you called the number? No. Call 833-DOGPOD1. You should. I'm going to. For more Mythical Kitchen, check out our other videos. We launch new episodes every week. See you all next time.