Part Two: Scientific Evidence of Past Lives, The Patterns in Famous Past Life Cases & How You Live Now Affects Your Afterlife with Dr. Jim Tucker
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Welcome to part two of our fascinating conversation with Dr. Jim Tucker, the former director of the University of Virginia Division of Perceptual Studies. He's a child psychiatrist and he has studied over 2,000 cases of children who recount memories from a previous life. Make sure to check out part one of our conversation and we cannot wait for you to hear what we talk about in part two. So make sure you're subscribed and let's get to it.

Now, I will say most of these kids do not show other sort of psychic abilities, with occasional exceptions. But for the most part, they don't seem to be especially gifted in that way. So it's not necessarily that they have a channel, you know, open channel to the other information more than other kids do.

So along those lines, what happens to these kids when they get older? Like you talk about that many of these things kind of, I don't want to say fizzle out, but when they're older that it sort of goes away-ish. What do we think might be happening there? And do some of them carry this throughout their lives? Right. So most of the kids stop talking about these things around school age.

six or so, five to seven, something like that. They have so much homework to do. They can't spend their time thinking about their past lives. Well, yeah, I think that actually is sort of part of it, that they get wrapped up in this life. But in addition, that's the same age where we all lose our early childhood memories. So, you know, early childhood amnesia, where, as you know better than I, the brain has undergone tremendous changes around

around them and you get this pruning effect. And so in any event, memories for all of us. But you know, occasionally you get little glimmers from along before then, but for the most part, they all fade out. So it would make sense that these would fade as well.

And then they kind of just go on and lead their lives. So we've recently done a study where we interviewed adults who we originally studied when they were kids. And when we talked to these people and gave them some things to fill out, questionnaires to fill out and so forth.

Basically, they are doing just fine. And educational-wise, actually a majority of them had at least a college degree, and some had advanced degrees. And occupationally, it runs the gamut. I mean, one is an air traffic controller. There are people in health care. So they basically...

seem like everyone else maybe actually did a little better overall. That's some maybe depression and anxiety, but not necessarily more than you would expect in the general population. Well, first of all, some of them do still have at least vague memories from the past. In fact, almost half of them did. None of them reported clear memories like they expressed when they were younger, but at least some.

a number of them commented on how it had given them a more spiritual outlook. Some of them, even though they didn't remember, they didn't still have the memories, they didn't even remember talking about the memories, but just being told what they had said opened them up more where they had kind of a spiritual outlook. So I think in the long run, for many of them, it was a positive experience, even though while it's happening, often it's difficult for the children and for the parents.

What children displayed psychic ability and what kind of psychic ability did they display? Well, there's one case where the little boy, his mom and I were exchanging emails back and forth. And so we got documented things like he told his grandmother that she was going to get chicken pox. And then a couple of weeks later, she broke out in shingles.

So they're not necessarily saying, oh, in your past life, you did this. I mean, you know, they're not like a professional psychic, but there are times where within their own lives that they seem to have access to some stuff. Have you ever had experiences with adults who did not show this memory as children who were able to either through hypnosis or some other mechanism have that recollection at an older age?

We're actually quite skeptical about past life hypnotic regression because hypnosis is an unreliable tool even for memories in this life, which is why they're not allowed in courtroom testimony.

At times it can be amazing and, you know, people can remember license plate numbers from crime scenes or whatever. But a lot of times the mind just fills in the blanks. And then it's very hard for someone to distinguish a memory or did my mind just make it up? So with occasional exception or a few exceptions, I think there's little, most hypnotic regression cases do not provide evidence of a link to the past life.

Now the larger question of adults. So we study kids mainly for two reasons. The main one being is that's where we're hearing the cases.

They seem to be the ones most likely to report memories of a past life. But also with adults, I mean, adults can be exposed to all kinds of information. In fact, there have been cases with hypnosis where they then re-hypnotize the person, ask them where they had learned that, and they said in a book they had read 10 years before and completely forgotten about. So we all get exposed to a lot of

So, you know, you'd be pretty comfortable that a two-year-old was not exposed to the life of one particular pilot who was killed back in 1942.

For adults, it gets really tricky. So sometimes people can, not necessarily that they know about one particular deceased individual, but they can give you information from a past culture that seems mind-boggling, but you can't say for sure whether they hadn't learned it in some way.

Is there any reason that children who are remembering past lives, in theory, should only remember past lives from the country that they live in?

Well, there are exceptions to that, but you're right. Most of the kids do remember a life from the same country and sometimes from quite close by. And also they tend to remember recent lives. I mean, James Langer is actually an exception because his was 50 years. But a lot of times it's the average is four and a half years. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Wait. What? They are describing very recent lives. Now,

Yeah, if it's really recent, it's easier to verify than one that's from 100 years ago. So, I mean, there may be some sampling issues. But the plane of consciousness does not have, in my mind, it's kind of like the God I believe in, you know, the plane of consciousness that I would understand does not have a preference for language or location necessarily, right? I mean, unless, unless...

we're talking about some sort of, again, this would be outside of our current perceptual understanding or analysis of time and space, but that there is some sort of closeness

closeness, right? That in some way is more or less accessible. But in theory, I mean, Jonathan, correct me if I'm wrong, you know, when people do past life regressions, you can find yourself anywhere around the world, but you're always going to speak in the language that is, you know, in theory, your native tongue. I'm sorry, I'm still trying to wrap my head around what it would look like for four and a half years. So

So you mean like someone dies and then right away they're in somebody else's body? There are cases like that, literally. For intact memories to come through to a new life, it has to be one that is, or almost always, has to be one that is close in some sort of way, is either close in time or close in distance or close in identification. You know, I identify as American. So there are...

patterns or ties or something that have the person come back to a kind of a similar life to what they went through before. Well, I just wanted to continue this kind of line of thinking because if there don't have to be rules about it, right, which there can be observations and there can be tendencies, but there don't have to be rules about it. So as you talked about with Scott Barry Kaufman, right,

If there is something encoded in some way, whether that is something it could be epigenetic. But let's just say that there is something encoded that in theory makes some more able to access things than others. Right. And that's a very vague collection of genetic information I'm sort of saying is passed on.

There's no reason that that couldn't allow access to something within one's lineage, especially if we're talking about any sort of genetic or epigenetic transmission. Right. So are you suggesting it might be that the memories come through

That way, is that what you're saying? I'm saying either the memories or the ability to access other aspects of consciousness, that if we're talking about there being a spatial or temporal or spatio-temporal relationship of this...

I don't have a problem saying that for certain people, this may occur in their direct lineage because there is something in their direct genetic or epigenetic information that is allowing them to have access to that in special ways, which doesn't have to be true of every child you look at because we are talking to you and you're this amazing person who gets to entertain these things.

Well, right. So, yes, I mean, there may be a genetic propensity to be able to remember past lives. And you're right, there is the question of epigenetic transmission of trauma. You know, you probably know it better than I do, but this study with mice,

where they associated a shock with, I think, a sound or smell or something. And then not only did their offspring get anxious with the smell, but even their offspring did.

I can tell you it's true from those of us who have grandparents who fled Eastern Europe. And, you know, there's all these incredible studies about, you know, the my 23 chromosomes, right, that my mother gave me were in my grandmother when she was fleeing. And there's all sorts of, you know, interesting stuff there. But I think that plays into what what you've reported, you know, in terms of trauma, too. But the other thing I'll point out is some people have wondered, is are these seeming past life memories is a genetic memory?

And the short answer is no, because first of all, to inherit the genes that have the memory, you'd have to be a direct descendant. And in most of these cases, that's not true. And the other is, as we talked about, 70% of the kids have memories of dying in the past life, which of course would have been after the person passed on their genes. If you were to take off your Dr. Tucker hat just for a second, and you and I are having a cup of tea.

And we're just hanging out and we're just talking. Can you, in the plainest terms, explain to me, with your understanding of the world and of science, what is actually happening here? I have become quite convinced that there's more than just the physical world, that there is this element or realm of consciousness, first of all, and that we all have a piece of it. What it looks like to me is that...

There are times when the consciousness comes back to this same reality in a young child. And again, there may be various factors that cause that to happen. I'm not saying that's what typically happens. That may not be the sort of the normal process, but in these cases, it seems to have happened. And that doesn't give us all the answers, but it does, I think,

let us consider again that the materialist view is simply incomplete and that there is this piece that is overlooked, this consciousness piece.

And, you know, when I was saying consciousness is fundamental and matter is derived from it, that's actually a quote from Max Planck, who is the father of quantum theory. So, you know, we're in pretty good company of considering the idea that not only is there more than we're aware of, but that actually at the core, this all comes out of this consciousness. Well, I mean, Planck...

and all of those guys would even go so far as Thomas Campbell goes as to say that that consciousness has a source. And that source is all of the things that in theory, we use the human word love to describe, right? Coherence, which is something we can measure physiologically, right? Physiological coherence, homeostasis, feeling connected, feeling loved, feeling held, right?

Those are exactly the words that...

religion and mystics for thousands of years have tried to convince people to tap into in order to have more cohesion in their life. So I wonder, can you speak a little bit to what does this mean if we extend this notion of consciousness to there being an even larger consciousness that is creating our reality as we know it? For some people, they call that God. I'm not so hung up on terminology.

Yeah, and it does get complicated how much agency we have, you know, versus God or again, whatever term you use, creating it. I happen to believe that we do have agency and that we're all creating it. But anyway, they talk about agent-dependent realities that each observer, or they use the term agent because we have more agency than just observing, but that each agent is

has their own reality and it's you know they all get put together and it looks like this one reality that we have but actually there are all these kind of separate pieces that go together but that we're all on this journey together is what i would say that you know the um

whether there's one sort of large mind or consciousness, it shows that the universe and the reality, it doesn't have to be meaningless, that there is meaning. You know, we're not just a random collection of molecules and it's pointless and meaningless and nothing. But I think

Certainly not how I like to view it. I think that we can find meaning in our lives and create meaning in our lives as part of this larger picture that we only get glimpses of.

When we had Thomas Campbell on, you know, he described his introduction. You know, he was a young grad student. He was studying physics and he was introduced to transcendental meditation, which we know a lot about. It's actually one of the one of the forms of meditation that we know the most about, I think, from a kind of scientific and physiological perspective.

And the very first time that he tried transcendental meditation, he was shot off into another plane of consciousness. He was not on drugs. He does not believe in drugs. He experienced a reality that was not this reality. And what he described started happening and it happened in one very specific day. He started seeing what looked like cotton candy on all of the trees and

And it was connecting between everything. And he said that he said to someone, what is happening with these trees? And the person said, I have no idea what you're talking about. And what he came to understand was that by tapping into this other realm of consciousness, some of us are able with ease to see things.

You know, for lack of a better word, the energetic properties of everything that exists, not just living things. He could see electrical equipment that had charge coming off of it. Right. And I wonder, can you speak a little bit because this gets into a realm that a lot of people are uncomfortable with.

of saying we are energetic bodies, that there is an understanding of us as energetic beings, that once you dip into other forms of consciousness and other understandings of our human experience, it can transform the way that we literally see the world and

and the way that we behave in it and the way that we function. And this is something Jonathan and I are so interested in. What if this for many people is that missing piece? You know, I mean, you're a psychiatrist, you know, a lot of things ail us. We have a, you know, epidemics of anxiety, of depression, of trauma, of overdiagnosis, of underdiagnosis, ADHD, all these things. And

And for many people, in particular people who have been at the depths of despair, many people say that the thing that allowed them to climb out of that hole was an understanding that there is something bigger than us, right? And for many people, that's finding sobriety through a higher power. For many people, it's a religious experience.

but we're talking about a scientific experience, right? A scientifically calculable experience of understanding consciousness as proving this kind of connection. Can you speak a little bit to all of this in terms of these worlds that you're bridging? Because many people find this very, very disturbing and they just want to push it away. Right. Um,

you know, some people have spontaneous mystical experiences, you know, separate from TM or drugs or anything else. And it typically involves a sense of, of all is one, uh, that, you know, everything is connected. Um, there was a study of cancer patients who were experiencing death anxiety, uh, where they were given one dose of psilocybin, uh, which is psychedelic and magic mushrooms, quote unquote. Uh,

And it erased their death anxiety. These things are significant. And it doesn't mean we should all go out and do psilocybin. But if we can, in our own way, on our own path, try to connect more with this sort of the underlying reality of connection and, like you say, love and meaning, then I think it can enrich our lives and also hopefully help us treat each other a little better.

Another point about our conversation with Thomas Campbell that relates to the fact that 70% report dying in a traumatic way. You know, his idea, and I feel similarly, is that the consciousness system has an objective value.

for its own existence and that we're moving towards a sense of homeostasis or love or repair in some fashion. So it's interesting to think about those that died in a traumatic way are more likely to remember it. Maybe there is a healing, a processing that needs to happen in the new life. And therefore they're more apt to remember a traumatic death. We each come to this life with, um,

kind of different things to work on or different aims for a lifetime. I mean, again, if you accept sort of the premise of all this. And yeah, if people have been through bad trauma, which is not to say that you try to uncover past life trauma, but I mean, it may play out in relationships or with fears or whatever. And that may be part of sort of the normal process that, again, we all come here with various experiences

issues, to be sure. And, you know, the task is sort of the journey to work through some of that. As you've become more non-material in your approach to this life, have you dabbled in any sort of exploration for yourself and not necessarily psychedelics, but just in terms of your own consciousness practice or connecting with intuitive abilities, anything like that?

Not really, to be honest. I mean, for a while, I meditated on a pretty regular basis, more like mindfulness kind of meditation. But I confess that's been years. But I think I have reached a sense of there's meaning in looking outside, as I'm doing right now, and seeing the leaves and the grass. And there's meaning in

giving my dog his dinner, which makes him happy, and obviously the connections that we have with each other. So I've actually come to a point where the question of do we reincarnate

And really, even do we survive has become sort of less important to me because what is important is this life and the experiences and interactions that we have with people now and kind of being at peace with that regardless of what comes later. That's beautiful. What would you say to a parent who may be experiencing a child that has unusual memory or is

communicating to them about things that they don't understand, what advice would you give to them? I mean, a couple of things. One, it's good to be open, obviously, to what their child is saying, and especially if the child is really emotional about it, to let them have voice.

But not to become overly focused on potential past life and start asking the child a bunch of questions, partly because it may be upsetting to the child. But then from our standpoint, you start pumping them with questions, they start making up answers, and then it's harder to investigate the case. But it does seem to help the children for people to acknowledge that

that they have those memories and they may well have experienced those things, but that's in the past and now you're here with us safe in this life. So you don't discount them, but you also put the memories in perspective that now you're with us. And then we tell parents, even though it can be extremely upsetting at the time, in a few years this stuff is going to fade and the kids end up developing fines.

an adjacent sort of, I don't know, experience or exploration. I wonder if you can speak a little bit to near death experiences. Um, obviously it's different and also it kind of falls into this, this similar ish realm. Um, can you speak a little bit about, um, you know, if, if your division, um,

you know, if the Division of Perceptual Studies also explores things like near-death experiences and sort of what is your sort of take on what's happening in these experiences? Yes, we do. And in fact, Bruce Grayson, a colleague of mine, has published far more papers on near-death experiences than anyone else in the world. What a near-death for people who don't know. Near-death experiences are typically when people come very close to physical death or even where their hearts stop.

instead of their mind shutting down as their brain is shutting down they actually experience sharpened thinking and many of them will describe

kind of floating above their body. They may watch what's happening and some of them will then report details of the code that's taking place, the CPR and all that. Some of them will encounter deceased loved ones. Occasionally there are cases where they encounter deceased loved ones and say, "What are you doing here?" because they didn't know that, for instance, in one of the cases, know that the brother had died.

And then often there is a sense of a bright light or that everything is light, and some of them certainly interpret that as God, and they feel an overwhelming sense of love and acceptance.

While at the same time, many of them have life reviews where they, you know, they see where they failed, but that they get the message, you know, basically that it's all okay, that it's all for a reason. And then many of them come to a point of no return where they are either given the choice or they're told, you have to go back, it's not your time. And then they will wake up in their bodies, which is often painful.

coming back to a lot of pain. And, you know, these are life transforming for these people and there's a lot there. And in fact, we actually did one study looking at kids' reports of the interval between lives versus near-death experience reports. And there are certainly similarities. Some of the kids would talk about when they died, essentially describing near-death experience, blood in both their body, meeting spiritual guides or whatever,

And then there's this kind of spiritual component to the whole thing that's present in both. I mean, they've been reported since antiquity, but they're reported a lot more because a lot more people are brought back from being very near death. What have we learned from neuroimaging of psychic phenomenon, people who are in that receptive state? Has there been sort of significant insight using neuroimaging?

Well, that's also something that we have a neuroimaging lab that we've been doing some of that work. And a lot of it is still...

to be continued. But there have been studies of testing nuns or Buddhist priests, deep meditators, and seeing that, for instance, some parts of the brain kind of go quiet and ones that place you in a physical place tend to go quiet and, you know, where people seem to have a kind of a mystical kind of experience of connecting with something more.

Dr. Tucker, it's been so fascinating to get to talk to you. And we really, really, we really appreciate it and appreciate your work and everything that you've contributed to this field, which, you know, spills over into so many. So thank you so much for being here. Oh, well, thanks for having me. It's been fun talking. I really enjoyed speaking to Dr. Tucker, but here's the thing. I wish he wasn't a psychiatrist. Why? If he wasn't a psychiatrist, he could be like, oh my gosh, you guys.

People die, but then they come back in other bodies. And like kids have these experiences and it's cray. But I've been to many psychiatrists in my life. They all have that vibe, meaning they're chill. They don't have huge reactions. Like I'm freaking out about what he's saying because I think that this is

It's unbelievable that even based on these individual case studies, that this person is completely comfortable saying, oh, yeah, there's some other plane that we don't know, we don't understand.

And apparently some people can experience that in different lifetimes. What? That's amazing. He's very understated. That's what I mean. He's presenting like the largest, most shocking pieces of information, but doing it in a way not to cause alarm. Like, I don't want to stir the pot here, but by the way...

Kids are having memories that we cannot explain whatsoever. It's happening. It's totally happening. But it's true what he said in terms of it isn't about...

All those past lives and people can get lost. You know, I'm glad he said he's skeptical of hypnosis. And there's a lot of time and I think energy spent on people going backwards. And maybe that provides some information that comes forward and helps them in the present moment. But simply exploring past life for the sake of past life, I've always been quite skeptical about.

I mean, look, I've had an experience with someone who was, I would say, very skilled in understanding lots of different realms in ways that I cannot. And, you know, the past life regression process is one of, you know, kind of what I think young people,

Carl Jung would have described as sort of, it is a creative imagination exercise. It's really dropping out of that logical part of your brain that says, this didn't happen, I'm imagining it. It's like all that stuff goes away, and if you've ever had a psychedelic experience, that's the part of your brain that gets turned off. So in case you're wondering why you can have access to things, I mean, there's lots of chemical reasons, which I'm happy to go into in a different episode,

But the reason that you can experience things and it feels so real is that the part of your brain that tells you no is offline. So when you're doing a past life regression, if you are able to kind of get into that zone, in theory...

We might say you're able to access things. I think the same is true of Akashic Records and people who are going in there. If you can drop into that place, right, it's described as kind of getting out of your head and into your heart, into your body. And that's what any good practitioner does. Even regular doctors are doing, right? They're trying to understand their patient better.

Um, that's in theory, something that some people might be able to tap into, but I don't think it should be sort of used lightly as it were. It should not be used lightly. There's a book called how to read the Akashic records. It's a how to, and I would say the prerequisites for that type of book, uh, if it is a self-taught versus going to a class, but even if it's going to a class, uh, the prerequisites are that probably there's some form of mindfulness experience, some form of, um,

Altered states of consciousness, again, not talking about psychedelics, but moving out of your thinking brain into a creative imagination in a visual experience, having done some personal, either not necessarily hypnosis, but parts work or where you've done creative visualization and gone on internal journeys. That book came into my life. And I met a woman who really described a lot of these phenomenon to me. And, you know, I don't like to...

I haven't talked really about this, but I spent some time practicing, working on this, training with this woman, and I would do some Akashic readings for people. And sometimes those readings would talk about past lives and people were very, very curious about past lives.

As Thomas Campbell explains, we get the data, but we interpret the data based on our own experience. So I was always very cautious or hesitant to interpret the data in a biased way based on my experience, because obviously I can't, you know, my experience is what it is. It has a limitation to it. It was really just like setting a parameter of a search in a database. You have to, it's a meditative process, right?

clearing one's mind, and then set the query for what you're searching for on behalf of either yourself or someone else, and then wait for the information to come.

This is outside of the realms of our understanding. What you're talking about, and I believe it's called the astral plane. You're talking about the astral plane, which is not the physical plane. This is the physical plane, right? Or, you know, this is the information that my brain is receiving about this being the physical plane. Only because it's practiced that.

So I'm just saying for me, I've had, you know, a few experiences in deep, you know, meditative, uh,

practice meaning as practicing meditation something happens where my body feels like it's not functioning as a body the way it normally does and this has only happened to me in very brief moments like it'll drop in for a second and I'll have some awareness of like the best way I can describe it

It's like a quieting, not just a quieting of my thoughts. It's like a quieting of my physical being. And I think, I think that when I've, you know, heard,

people who practice meditation regularly. And I don't mean with all due respect, people who are like, you know, listening to a walking meditation or like meditating while you're in the car. No, there's a difference between mindfulness, quieting, observing, and then accessing other planes of consciousness.

I'm talking about people who like are doing, you know, like hours and hours of like Buddhist meditation as they're training or people like Thomas Campbell who are like shot off into another stratosphere, you know, in TM from a mantra. Like I'm talking about like a practice situation. But for me, like I've experienced that literally as soon as I have consciousness of it, it's gone.

Like you have to be able to live in that space, which I believe people like you have either practiced or have a genetic, you know, set of genetic information that allows them to tap into that. And I do believe that of every legitimate healer that is out there. And a lot of people are healers who are using different methods

practices and different methods and that's fine. I'm not saying you're illegitimate, but what I'm talking about is not just like a person that like I see took out an ad in the back of a newspaper and I don't know who they are. But when I learn about people who are healers and I learn what they've practiced, what they've studied, what they've cultivated for themselves and their own spiritual practice, I

Those people I do believe are able to get to this place that I've only gotten to literally for less than a second. I believe that something can happen there that I don't understand or have access to. And I don't know that I need to because there's people like you who can do it.

you know, what we're talking about is someone has to go somewhere and they're in, in with their consciousness and access another plane. Now people get pulled out of that, right? It's like, you can go there. And then when you talk about, you've been there for a second and then you get pulled out there, there are a handful of reasons why someone gets pulled out fear,

analytical mind, being comfortable in an unknown, being comfortable not having information and sort of in that real gray space and not immediately switching back to the analytical mind, which is what we're most comfortable with. And two, finding ways when we begin to switch back into the analytical mind to reground ourself and practice staying in this open, receptive, non-

rational world. Again, we talk about this in Thomas Campbell is receiving the information is one thing and then analyzing the data to say, how is it valuable? So it's one thing. I almost see it like you go into the records and like you're going to collect information. You're setting

you're like pulling a book off a shelf, you're opening it, you're like, what does this page say? Is it relevant? And then there's a secondary process of how do I make sense of the things that I collect? So maybe you open the book, you see, you hear, you feel something, you collect it, you put it on the, you know, examining table, you go take another piece of information, put it and then a picture starts to form. So my experience is that depending on what type of physical state you're in, what type of emotional state you're in,

How much caffeine has someone had? If there's alcohol involved, if there is a physical struggle happening, toxins or illness in the body, it's harder for the consciousness to act in because it's like a different vibrational state when you're in that form of consciousness. I'm kind of really curious about the neuroimaging.

That's happening because I think there's going to be a lot revealed of what it means physiologically to be in that, those mental states. What does it mean to act, not just be in a meditative state, but be in a receptive state where you're,

accessing maybe the Akashic records or other planes of existence? And then what does that do physiologically? Does our heart rate slow down? Can we measure that? When you talk about not being able to stay there, I think it's practice. I do. I think it's practice and being okay and having not just the experience of doing it, but the system by which you can help yourself stay there when you get pulled out.

it's very challenging to entertain all of these things, especially knowing that a lot of

For example, Dr. Tucker's research is literally cataloging to try and find what is consistent enough to rely on in this realm. I really liked him talking about evidence. This is all, and Jeffrey Kripal would say that as well, this is all evidence. You don't get to say that evidence doesn't exist. You are allowed to say evidence.

I don't want to take that evidence and have it prove X, Y, or Z. But I think Dr. Tucker, this is exactly what

what his work at the University of Virginia is doing. They're trying to say, we will not discount evidence. Evidence is important. It has information. What can it tell us about a larger system, even if it's not proving anything? And I think that's really important where we're not trying to prove anything. When I did that work, I wasn't trying to prove anything. And in fact, I was very skeptical in any information that I would receive.

Because I didn't want to make assumptions. And there's a lot of people who are claiming to do this, that as Thomas Campbell describes, there are three ways that you can access information. It can be you're accessing your own consciousness. You can access the consciousness of another person, or you can access the larger consciousness system. And so anytime anyone is engaged in this work, they don't 100% know where the information is coming from. So I think it's important to do all of this,

If people are interested in this type of work for themselves or working with someone else, be skeptical and take everything with a grain of salt to say, what can this actually provide me? Is it actual truth that I lived in this lifetime or is it a metaphor? Are there themes that I'm bringing back into this world and how do we stay as present as possible today?

And I really loved, you know, just to kind of put a button on this, I really, really loved his notion that, you know, understanding all of these things potentially puts us more in touch with the best that we can offer, you know, in our waking life. And I really love that emphasis as well from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and Bialik's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two.

And now she's gonna break down, it's a breakdown. She's gonna break it.