Part Two: The Psychic Who Hunted U.S. Government Targets With Her Mind & How You Can Train Your Mind For ESP And Remote Viewing
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Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik. I'm Jonathan Cohen. Welcome to part two of our interview with Angela Ford. She worked for 32 years in the intelligence community in Washington, D.C. The Defense Intelligence Agency hired her and she participated in Stargate's Psychic Phenomenon program. She happens to be a medium and she is a channeler, but she was employed for 32 years as a spy. She was inducted into the National Security Agency Spy Museum last year.

And she's going to tell us so much more about her personal experiences, her time working alongside military and what it means for essentially her understanding of humanity to walk around with these abilities. And what can she offer to people who might be more curious about their own abilities? Break it down.

Are there things that you experience when you remote view or when you, you know, kind of tap into this place that are scary or dark or information you wish you didn't have? Yeah.

Yeah. But that's, you know, that's negative. I call that negativity, negativity. And that planet earth, you know, we, we had the bad angels come down and they fought with the good angels. So we have negativity. So we have positive and we have negative on earth. And that, yeah, you do have, there are some dark energies, but, and I felt dark energies, but they dissipate after about 20 minutes. I figure, oh, here comes a dark energy. And then you thought, oh,

kind of wait it out a little bit. And when I do a reading, energy comes in, okay? And that energy is around a person. So I'm reading, but that energy around the person will stay there for maybe 40 minutes, 45 minutes, 50 minutes. And I give a person a reading based on that energy. But after that, the energy just starts dissipating, meaning I've said what I had to say

And that's the same thing with negative energy. If it comes in after a while, it'll just start to dissipate. So I remembered one time talking to a very elderly lady who was psychic and she said, Angela, if you're going to work in this field, just expect to see it all. When energy is witnessed.

It sounds like it wants to be understood and seen through these extra senses. If you're giving someone a reading and the energy kind of collects to be read and then dissipates, it wants us to have access to it. It does, but it can only stay still. Yeah. A lot of people want an hour reading. How much do you charge for an hour reading? Or how long are you reading an hour?

They don't realize after 50 minutes they've heard what they had. It starts, the energy starts dissipating. So I start repeating information. But you're right. When the energy is there, they want it. You're right. That's why when somebody says, oh, I have a ghost in my house or I have a spirit in my house and they get afraid, I say acknowledge the spirit. Just acknowledge it and just say, oh.

Hello, how are you? How can I help you? What do you do? It's acknowledgement, exactly what you just said. You have to acknowledge it. It's interesting that acknowledgement then can shift it. So whether it's a reading or whether it's a negative experience, if like I had something just the other day, I texted Mayim and I was like, I slept horribly. I woke up in the middle of the night and I had this like really intense time.

terror. And I started trying to decipher it and figure out what it was. And really, when I acknowledged it, I was like, okay, I hear it. I understand. And then it was maybe about 30 minutes, it just started to become less intense, versus me, like, I don't want to interact with this, then it would sort of feed it and fuel it. That's exactly right. Yeah.

I'm really enjoying the energetic love fest that the two of you are having, but I'm still like trying to understand that the U.S. military just actively employs, you know, people and that we weren't told. This is something that this is, I think, what's the most shocking to me is that this is not part of an accepted thing.

a conversation and it would have been, and I think it would be very helpful for people to not demonize this aspect of, of special abilities, even if we can't necessarily understand them or quantify them or like, you know, write a peer reviewed journal paper about how you do what you do. The fact that these are techniques that are,

actively used and in many cases accepted, utilized, and, you know, you've done great good as have all the people I'm sure who've worked in this field. You know, why is that not part of a conversation about guess what? The entire human experience is not simply made of what we can access with the five senses. Like I would have liked someone to tell me that in second grade, just not to freak me out. I mean, I already was told to believe in God from the time I was three, right? Like,

It would have been helpful if someone would have said, this is a thing that's legitimate. We don't really understand it, but it can be used in helpful ways. And we should not call people witches who have these abilities. I think it's just fear bait. I just think fear was put into it. It's just fear. People, it's just fear put into it. Now, I do know that when the Cold War ended in 1991...

We had a scientist as a contractor, and he started to go over to Russia because he wanted to find out what were they doing. Because that was the whole reason why our program existed. You know, the Soviet Union's doing it. We have to do it. And he went over, and for about a 12-year period, he made some decisions.

over there and he met. He met the scientists. He met their remote viewers and he said they had a much more relaxed environment

they were more relaxed with their remote viewers because in the Soviet Union, shamanism was part of their history and they acknowledged the shamanism. Khrushchev acknowledged shamanism. Stalin acknowledged. This was, and that they, they don't see it like we see it. They, they're much more accepting. So that was interesting.

So that was an eye opener for me because, I mean, we were taught that these people didn't even believe in God, but they do. And I was on, we went, we were invited to Moscow in 2015 because there were some books written over time. We met,

The former Soviet Union people, they met us. So a book was written and I was invited to Russia in 2015 to a reception that they held in our honor.

And I went to Red Square and they have all these churches on Red Square and they said that Stalin went to church every day. So they were spiritualists and that didn't have a problem with it. So do you need to have a spiritual framework, do you think, to be open to this? No, because some people are just some people can do it.

I don't think so. I mean, people can do it. Okay, if you have the ability, whatever you want to do with it, you're going to do with it. But of course, there's consequences. It's like everything. I'm going to ask you hard questions. Is there a God? Oh, I think there's a higher, of course, there's something higher than us. If you want to call it God, I would think so. Is that something you interface with?

No, but I feel it. I mean, I can feel it. I can feel it. My girlfriend, she's had, my girlfriend, she's a dowser. She can find dead bodies and she can locate. Her father was a very well-known dowser. And dowsers are people that find things. And her father taught the Marines how to stay away from landmines during the Vietnam era.

And his name was Louis Matasha. He was a very well-known dowser. And he had five children, and the last two were twins. And one of the girls has this ability.

Now, she told me and she said, now, every time she gets sick, she has a near death experience. So she always sees God. So I said, well, what's God like? And she said, well, he's he just always tells her to go back and tell people to stop killing each other and to be nice to animals. So I said, I guess that she's seeing somebody or is having an interaction that she's calling God.

And I think, you know, people that are struck by lightning, if you know somebody that's struck by lightning, they're going to keep getting struck by lightning. Well, that's not where I was going with that, but that's fascinating. Yeah.

Okay, it's their body. It's the makeup of their body. If you're going to get hit, if you find somebody that was hit by lightning once, you're going to get it again. And I think this girl, every time she gets sick, she has a near-death experience. So maybe that's... Whoa. No, you know what I'm thinking of? I'm thinking of that my younger son, whenever he gets a fever, he gets, when he was a baby, he would get very shaky. Yeah.

And I didn't know it was a sign of kind of a neurological tenderness. But I'm also wondering, like, yeah, when our bodies do certain things, certain people are conduits, right, for certain kinds of, I mean, for lack of a better word, energy, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

He could have been, he could have gone out of body. He could have, I mean, who knows what was going on? I mean, something could have been going on.

Can you talk about what happened and how it informs what you understand about life elsewhere? Well, I saw a UFO when I was... Is that what you're talking about? That's what I'm talking about, yeah. Yeah, I saw a UFO, and that kind of...

Well, we were, we were, I was with friends. We were playing baseball, 13 years old. And it was that, you know, we have to quit playing because it was getting dark. It was a springtime, dusk to dark. And we saw it, you know, we saw this.

UFO and we were like, oh wow. We started screaming. What did it look like? It was just a round. It was green. It was round with a ring around it and it went right over us. Was it like where a plane was or where a helicopter or like where a frisbee? It was low. It was low. More like a frisbee. It was low. How big? It was

It was big. It was a round UFO with a ring around it. It was a green, and it was green. It was right over us. Okay, so then what happened? You screamed? Well, we screamed so that the grown-ups would come out and see it. And so then what happened was, and then it was reported as sighted. Wow. Wow.

And so have you had other experiences? Oh, sure. Yeah, you said that you've left your body and saw beings that were not humanoid. I think I saw like a little gray. They called them the gray. And I felt like I knew him from before. That's why I believe in reincarnation. Because when I saw him...

I was very comfortable. I said, hey, how you doing? It was like, I felt like I knew him from before. So I said, hey, how are you doing? It's been a while. And then he kind of nodded.

The way that you describe these things, Angela, you might as well be telling me how to make your favorite cranberry muffins. It's like very matter of fact. I want to go backwards a little bit because it was an interesting comparison that the Soviet Union had a culture that accepted extrasensory ability. And, you know, in in the U.S., particularly Canada, which is where I'm from, we didn't have that as part of our vernacular.

often people would spring up. There's a psychic, they put a shingle, a sign up, and then people, some are effective at what they're doing. Others are maybe less effective and more misleading and are just using perception, not getting actual ability. And so there's this difference. There's a disconnect between what is happening now, which is there's a conversation that we all potentially have

human ability to experience more than five senses. And then what does that mean collectively for us, if we are not only biological in our nature, but also energetic, spiritual, how can that help us? So I'm, you know, that's what really kind of what struck me in terms of connecting to some of our other conversations also that we've been having lately is that there's almost a

resurgence. And the fact that the military and the government utilizes these techniques in many ways legitimizes it because it's a tool and that there are programs being paid for, but with congressional dollars means that, wait a second, all the people who were dismissing the potential, which is really extra human potential, dismissing this

Can't just say, oh, that's nonsense. We have to really begin to adjust our perspective to say, well, we know that there are researchers who are looking into at the University of Virginia, for example, at the Institute of Perceptual Studies, looking into near-death experiences and what happens when the consciousness filter gets lifted and gets expanded. What are people being exposed to and being aware of? And then

Really, how does that translate to people in their everyday lives?

Well, I would think that it would make people more aware that we're not the only ones here. We're not the only planet here. I mean, Earth belongs to something bigger. Are we messing up Earth? A lot of people think that climate change was too political. It doesn't exist anymore.

Whether you believe it or not, to think that we are it, the human species is it, that's a lot of ego and a lot of arrogance. I would think it would want to open people's minds to question and to maybe just be kinder to one another, try to help each other. I appreciate this perspective because I think that the thing that we worry about, and

And I was born in 1975. So I remember the 80s. I remember the 90s. I remember all of these fears. Right. And we were we were really raised with all this fear about what the Soviets were doing. Even now, what China's doing, what what Qatar's doing, you know.

these are all these fears, but one of the main fears that I think a lot of people have, even if we're willing to, you know, sort of go there is what if other people are not as good natured as you about their extrasensory perceptive abilities? I know. And if they went, oh, I know. Well, the

thing is, is that, you know, if they put out something, if you've got to be, you have to be careful what you're doing because you will have a reaction. You will, I mean, just be careful what you're doing. But there are people who may use these powers for things that are nefarious. And when we're thinking about, gosh, what are the Soviets doing with remote viewing? I

I mean, we, why were there balloons flying over Teaneck, New Jersey? Right. We have this thought of like, what is somebody doing from another country? Right. That they're watching us or that they're surveilling us in order to harm us. I mean, are there people, Angela, who have your abilities, who are using those abilities for, for wickedness? I don't know. I,

I don't know. Cause we would ask that too. I remembered working, but I don't know. I still think there's something above all of that. I still feel that there may be people using it for bad purposes or try to use it for bad purposes, but there's still something higher than that. That's going to keep it in place.

And that a lot of times when people want to use it for the negativity, it's because they're not enlightened and they're only going to go so far. And even whenever you watch people that are psychic, it's almost you have to watch it. Like what level are they psychic?

Are they at a basic level? Are they spiritual? How spiritual? I mean, when you meet people and I meet psychics, you determine what level are they at. How do you know?

You just kind of know by talking to them or, you know, you just know. Well, this is the thing that's hard, Angela. You know, but most people don't. Meaning I once sent Jonathan a picture of like, I found this like this crystal store, like out of the blue. And I was like, it appeared as if out of the sand. And I took a picture of it and I sent it to Jonathan. He's like, no.

You're not going there. And I'm like, I don't know. He told me not to go there because he had a feeling he was tapping into something. And I'm just like, I don't know. Tell me that I'm not going to be sad forever. That's what I want to hear, you know.

I do think that there is something above. I still feel there's something higher than all of that that's going to keep things. I just still believe in the white light. I believe in the energy of God. And the energy of God is love. And that is what's going to keep us in place. And some people have a harder time. They're going to have harder lessons to learn that we're all the same. I mean, people just...

Don't want to hear that. I want to ask you a little bit. We want to ask you just a couple more things, but I want to ask you about your personal life, because so many of us, you know, have this image of like what people who have these abilities live like or if you're skeptical about it, it's like, gosh, what's their life like? Right. Did you choose to get married? Did you have kids? Like, what is your life like considering you have these abilities? What choices did you make with what you know?

Well, because I was in the intelligence community, it's raw. It was, it was, you had to be very career oriented. I had to be, it wasn't like I could sit back and say, well, now it's time to get married or whatever. But because of being in that field, I had to be very career oriented. Now I, I,

I got into the program when I was, I think, 30 or 31, 32. I did not think I was going to be married. I wasn't looking to get married. I was, but I did meet my husband. I was 37 years old and I had a girlfriend that worked for HUD, for HUD.

for HUD. It was housing and urban development. Yeah. Yeah. And she, she had a party and she, she was the boss of these people. And I met a man who eventually became my husband. Now my husband, he didn't think much. I mean, he thought that was nice that I was a psychic, but he had many interests. He was a boater. He liked, he had a boat. He lived in Washington, DC, but he had a boat that he would bring out to Maryland and every weekend and go on the Chesapeake Bay.

And he was interesting. He had an interesting background. He was in the Air Force. He has a law degree. He did a lot of work for the government, like in transportation. And then he did a lot to make sure that people were getting good food. Because I guess if you go to... He did a lot of... He worked for the homeless program. But he...

So anyway, I met him and we got, we got married. But everybody wants to know, Angela, did you know if he loved you? Did you channel to find things out? No, it took me by, it took me by surprise. Wow. It just took me by surprise. Psychics can fall in love too by accident. Yeah. Yeah. And it, and we, it became, and he, and of course,

And he did not have a problem with the, with the psychic. He didn't have a problem with it. His real mother died at his birth and he always felt that his mother was with him. And, and,

And I think he had some relatives that may have been psychic. Did you confirm that for him? Or did you, when you're mad at him, do you say, guess what? Your mother's not with you. Well, what happened was, as I was living in Washington, D.C. in an apartment and my neighbor that lived above me, she was an Egyptian. She worked at the Egyptian embassy and her name was Nefertiti. And she read poems. Whoa.

She read palms. So I told her, I said, read, read Alan, my husband, read Alan's palms. And she looked at him and she said, your real mother died at your birth. And he said, Jess. And she said, but it wasn't due to childbirth. It was due to, and she, and she said what it was. And he said, yeah, you're right. It wasn't due to childbirth. It was, she needed a blood transfusion and they gave her the wrong blood. Oh,

And she, like, it sounds like you, you gravitate towards people who also have similar powers. Yeah. So he was comfortable. He loved animals. I mean, we had cats, dogs, birds. Whoa. Do you have, do you have any relationships? Do you have any ability to communicate with animals? Oh, sure. Oh, sure. What do you mean? Oh, sure. Tell us about it, Angela. That's amazing. Oh,

Oh, yeah, you can read it. Oh, yeah. My girlfriend, my girlfriend, she had, I think, eight cats and four dogs. I used to read, you know, tell me what's going on with. Yeah. Oh, sure. What is that? What is. OK, so any living being we can, in theory, tap into what what is that like to tap into an animal? You just you go to this quiet place like is it the same method? Oh, yeah. It's the same method as I would read a person. But they don't speak. They don't. They have thoughts. Yeah.

Oh, well, they, you know, they'll, yeah, like, I think, I think like the one cat, I said, you know, your cat likes, I think my, I think my girlfriend had like a ladder or something up in the house, like standing up. And I don't think the cat liked the ladder. It was too dark.

And I said, you got to move that. You got to move the ladder. That cat, it's too dark. It's making the cat. And then I think somebody, some dog liked the new bedspread. And she said, yeah, ever since she got it, the dog keeps sleeping on it. So I don't know. I just things like that. I was curious if you could talk a little bit more about the process of like, what is the type of information? Is it easier in person for human readings?

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Some people, they need like, give me your birthday. Oh, yeah, yeah. I start with, yeah, I do. I don't like to get information, but I do like a name or I do like a birthday. And that will give me my basis.

And then from that, I can gather information. And then I have people ask questions because people do have questions. Oh, I got questions. But I don't like the questions until after I can get...

what I need to get. I recently had a reading. Someone recommended a person to me and I just figured I'll give it a shot. And that was a very similar methodology. She kind of got upset with me when I gave too much information, which like I don't know how to not give a lot of information. That's just kind of how I'm made. But yeah, that was kind of that was sort of the structure of it. I didn't feel like it was terrifying.

terribly accurate mostly because I just I don't know anyway go ahead Jonathan sorry I mean there's all different types of readers I want Angela to read me you like the color blue do you like the color blue I do I think I think you have a blue aura I do like blue I think you're blue Jonathan you're more of an into what tell me about what color do you like you're like red or you like you like red or you like yellow

I mean, if I had to pick, I mean, our show colors are yellow or we have a yellow. Red is a tough one for me. I don't wear those colors. Then it's more like yellow. Yeah. Do you like the color purple, Jonathan? I do. And I like it when I try to put mine in purple. Oh, no, she's blue. She's blue. She does wear a lot of blue.

Yeah, you're a thinker. You like information. You like to research. You're very mental. You need to be stimulated all the time. You grasp ideas, concepts. You're quick. It's like the mind represents the air. So you're very quick. Yeah.

And that if you're bored, you get into trouble. So you always have to be doing something. That's true. That's very, very true. But now with the purple, now that's kind of like a, it's a healing color. So I think, do you like to make people feel, you care about people and things and you like to make people feel good. You like to make sure everybody's okay. Is that you? He's a healer. Yeah. He's a healer. Yeah. Purple. That's the healer.

Well, I think, yes, I think that's interesting. And in our mission, why we started these conversations was really as a combination of mental conversation, but also for emotional connection and helping people sort of understand themselves, understand the world that they find themselves in, understand that there's more to their potential experience that they can access.

Oh, yeah. I've seen your podcast and that's exactly what they do. I have a question. How young can you read a human? Do you read babies? Oh, yeah, I can read babies. What do babies tell you? Babies, if they can tell you why they're here. Why did you come into this earth? I want to know that. And I'm 49. Why did you come? They'll tell you. Babies will tell you why they're here. Do we know why Mayim is here?

She's here to cause trouble. I don't know. That's the best answer I've heard so far. So wait, so when babies arrive, can you explain a little bit more about the structure of that? Is there reincarnation? Are these new souls like...

Oh, I think this now they're saying that new souls are coming in. They're going to be smarter and brighter than us, which I think so, because we're supposed to keep getting better. Every time we come in, we're supposed to be getting better.

But yes, and if you look at babies, sometimes they look like old souls. But there's a book, it's called Human Design. And they tell you about the future of people and how their brains are going to be. They're going to be different than ours. Now, I can remember when I was very little, when I started to walk.

When I got up and I took my first steps, I can remember this going through my head. Like I said, oh, no, not this again, meaning here I am in this life again. And I can remember this spark going through me. And I thought, oh, no, not this again. And then something went through me where I thought I can't get out of this again.

So I felt like maybe that was, I never knew what that meant. But years later, I think that meant that I didn't want to really come through in this life, but I knew I couldn't get out of it. So I had to come through because the psychologist told me a lot of babies in the womb will go back because they'll say, I don't think I want to do this. Or so they'll come back at another time to make up the karma or whatever.

So it's like they enter this physical reality just enough to have a sensory experience of what it could be to be in physical form, and then they make a decision. And if they make the decision, you know, they may have to make it up. I mean, you know, they may have a karma with the mother or something. So if they go back, but there are strings attached, which I don't know if there are or not,

And there may not be, there may be, then they have to come back and make it up at some time. But that's not for us to judge or say. That's just things that happen. I mean, my first and earliest memory is in utero. And what did you remember? Tell me. We're talking about this like it's a normal thing. Like, oh, my first memory was in utero. Okay.

No, Angela's interested now. I tried to talk to you about this and you were like, that can't happen. There's no way. And then I sent a researcher off on trying to find all the scientific studies about people who have in utero memory. And I gave you a whole bunch of Google documents because I know you need to chew your mind around something before you can really talk about it. But you know what? I'm not sure you read our documents or not. So I'm just going to talk to Angela. All right. I want to hear what Angela says. I want to know what you remembered because I don't.

Go ahead. Tell me. Tell me. This is exciting. So I don't remember when I first had this memory, but I can close my eyes. I can picture it, and I can picture sort of light, and I can picture being in the womb, and I don't know how old I potentially was between –

I want to say between three and four or five months of growth. And I have this like distinct memory of my mother's nervous system, like what her frequency was. And I can have this feeling and sense of being just not separate from that. But knowing that that wasn't my frequency, that that was her frequency. And if I...

Again, it's hard to be like, did I make that up? Is it a real memory? Is it a memory that I've formed with all the information I've had as an older person? But if I kind of evaluate that through the logical lens, that same feeling I could say, oh, is a pattern that I could recognize as how she operated throughout my childhood.

Wow. Did she operate like that throughout your childhood? Same frequency, same sort of intensity. She has, you know, many interesting and amazing qualities, but she had the level of sort of underlying stress as she operated in the world that it felt like as I became conscious of existing, right?

I was sort of aware then of that frequency around me and that that was going to be part of my experience in this form. How did you two meet?

I'm just looking at Mayim's face after that story. Well, we met in a very... Synchronized air quotes for people who are only listening. We met in a very synchronized and unusual way. We met at a children's birthday party. And that was 13 years ago. We lost touch. And then he ended up needing a neuroscientist perspective on something. And I, out of the blue, after six years, emailed him.

So I didn't hear from her for six years. And for a few months, I had been working on a project and developing a lot of educational material about the connection between science and spirituality. It was Michael Singer's book, The Untethered Soul, that I was talking to a room of 20 people about. And I was saying it was one of the more accessible books.

books on trying to understand how our minds influence us and how to start to separate ourselves from our thoughts. And that really should be the foundation. I was like, who could help me describe this? And I was like, you know, the PR and I started talking about my mom, like, she is someone who is the only person in my life that I knew, would not only understand what I was talking about, but would really be able to like, make this accessible.

And again, we hadn't spoken in six years. That was on a Friday that I had been doing all of that conversation, that talking for the entire week. And then on Saturday I receive an email. And when I opened that email, I literally fall off the chair. I was like, what is happening? And, and,

My side of it was that I thought it had only been like a year since we'd spoken. We had been, you know, emailing in our lives. Like, I didn't know it had been six years. I literally thought it had just been a little bit of time. I had had vocal cord surgery because because as I describe it, God grounded me and I knew that I couldn't speak for several months. And so I pulled some books off the shelf to like read during that time.

And the book that I pulled off the shelf was a book Jonathan had given to me about a decade earlier that I had never read. And it was Peter Levine's book about trauma in the body. And I also read Michael Singer's book. I don't even know how I got it. So I'm reading these books while recuperating from vocal cord surgery. I can't even speak. And I emailed this person thinking I had just spoken to him and it had been six years. And that was what was happening on the other end. She says, it's been a while.

How are you? Happy New Year. Have you read the book The Untethered Soul? I hope you're well. See you later. And I'm like, what has just happened? You have a very spiritual outlook, Jonathan. I think things are available to us before they exist, and there are multiple options. But how they exist and how they manifest is not determined.

But the potential for them and their existence in an energetic form does exist. And we can tap into that and bring them into existence. So, you know, my interest in sort of what I call, or for lack of a better word, really, non-material reality is how do we influence the material reality by understanding that there's all this other information available to us?

Yeah, so you're more like a manifester. Do you believe in the manifestation? I mean, I don't like that word, really, because I think it's been colloquialized and sort of taken and manipulated and used to sell courses and all these things. But really, it's like, if we think about what is the fundamental experience of being human,

Most of us have been trained that it's what we can touch, taste, hear, see, smell. And I would say, well, that is a fundamental shortchanging of what it actually is. And so to talk to people who have experienced more than that and used experiencing more than that for practical benefit,

Finding people being employed by by defense agencies and intelligence agencies and are able to show us that, wait a second, it's not just about escaping our life into some sort of altered reality and its escape that we can use these abilities to make positive change to maybe increase the level of synchronicity that we have.

to use our gut sense to stay away from situations that are going to embroil us in conflict or in draining our energy and not allowing us to flourish, to think that each one of us has a unique perspective and our unique path to accomplish something and contribute something here. So how do we utilize our skills and our intuitive ability to help us along that way instead of getting sidetracked?

Yeah, that's what I encourage in my readings. I always tell people, use your creativity. You're creating. Usually when a person creates, they don't have the, just create. Stay on the positive side. But that's right. What is it like for you? What do you do now with your abilities? You do readings privately. Do you still work for any government or defense agency?

No, I do not. I do not work for any government. I do work for a scientist in California. His name is Dr. Ed May. He does a lot of psychic testing. He gets funded. He gets funded from all over the world. And, you know, he has his little, he is a hardcore scientist trying to prove ESP.

So, you know, he may want to prove precognition. So we'll do some, we'll do random testing, you know, where how many times can I,

he looks for statistics. So he'll put pictures in the envelope and I do it. And then he does his statistics and he writes his report for wherever he's writing it for. So, and Ed and I've had a long relationship since 1984. We had gone to Moscow together. We just got inducted into the NSA Spy Museum up at

Fort Meade. And so we were able to collaborate on that to get the people the right information that they needed. And Ed and I right now are trying to get funded for a documentary because when we went to Russia, when we went and in the book, ESP Wars, right here,

The SP Wars, North and South. This was the book that they gave us. What we want to show in our documentary was how the Soviets used their psychics and how the United States used their psychics. Now, we were very strict. We could only remote view because of the CIA messing up things before us.

So our contract was only to remote view. We couldn't get into healing because that's the manipulation of energy. We couldn't get into PK, like bending the spoons. We weren't allowed to do any of that. Now, whether we did it on the side was our business. But I can remember one remote viewer brought a deprivation tank into the unit to use in the remote viewing building area.

And that they were asked to take it out because it could have affected our mental state. But anyway, the Soviets didn't care. They had their healers traveled with their presidents, Gorbachev, Brezhnev. They did more of the energy. It was just different. And they would bring their psychics right up to the...

to the battle where, you know, they put the psychics on the bat where, where we were like, we don't need to be, they felt that they were getting better information if they brought the psychics right up to the problem where we didn't, we didn't, we felt we didn't have to, but then they, they didn't, but we weren't allowed to do any healing or anything. So it was very different on how they were raised and how we were raised. So we're trying to do a documentary on that. We're,

I just got, I just wrote a, I wrote a children's book in 2004 about an elephant who likes to have tea parties with children, but he can't because he's so big. And I wrote some story. It's just, they're not everybody. When I say I write children's stories, they think they're spiritual like angels, but they're not. They're just like dogs. Yeah.

So I'm getting that into animation. I'm working with a guy in Spain who's going to try to get me some funding. How does healing work in terms of, like, I understand it's one thing to sort of be in touch with

kind of other perceptual abilities. But what is this component that you're saying, for example, you were not allowed to do because it's a manipulation of energy? I think that when you heal people, when Christ walked the earth and he healed people, he manipulated the atoms. What he was doing was he's changing the atoms.

And I think that that's what healers do. I think whenever you go to a healer, whether it's Reiki or whatever, I think they're manipulating the atoms. And when somebody goes through a healing, if somebody's sick and they want to get well, a lot of times they'll get worse before they get better.

And I don't know why that is. It's almost like you have to destroy before you can restructure or bring it up. Now, I don't know exactly how healing works, but I have felt energy. I've had people do Reiki or whatever, um,

I don't know. Do you understand healing, Jonathan? It's kind of the same. My background, I started practicing Reiki when I was 17 and started learning about somatic experience, the idea that we have emotions that can be trapped or stuck in the body in some way. And sort of the brain and the physiological system below the neck are mirrored systems.

But when someone is doing a remote healing or a hands-on healing, and the way I was taught was always hands directly on the body, what you're doing, I think, would be parallel to how you get remote information when you're remote viewing is you clear the mind and just become an open conduit

For that information to and so in this case, instead of information, you're asking for an influx of energy to move through that you into the person, and the person has the ability to know what to do with it.

I'm not deciding. I'm using guides and cues and sort of my body can mirror or I can hear, oh, move a little this way and you begin to develop an intuition. But it's really, there's all this energy around that is available and this person needs someone else to help

supercharge their own natural mechanisms by which they can go through whatever process. And it is, it's true that often someone will get worse before they get better. And then they think, wait, it's not working. But there's something about breaking the system down that's holding them in place, keeping them in a dysfunctional environment that is required before they build that net new system. Yeah, that's right. And you're right. If they got, it comes through them, it comes through the healer and they know what to do with it.

Yeah, that's and I've taken years ago. I've taken like things on on healing. I like to do I used to do it on my animal. You put your hands on and kind of feel where the energies are and kind of straighten them out. It's actually animals are a fantastic learning tool. Number one, because they're around and they have nowhere else to be.

And two, they have much faster response times because they're so much smaller. And you can see, oh, they'll get up and shake and sort of tell you when they're done. And the other thing is that they'll kind of open to you. So if you have your hands on your animal, it's a great way to, number one, no one's going to judge you. You don't think something might be strange. And then you can just ask and say, I would like...

to, you know, I clear myself and I want to receive healing energy for this animal's highest good. And the animal will know what to do with it. And you can use the animal's name and then see, observe and just sort of be quiet and see how the animal moves and shifts. It may actually move underneath your hand in a way, in a place where it needs that help.

I wonder, before we let you go, Angela, I wonder if you could sort of address, you know, there's so many people in the world, and many of them are probably listening or watching us right now. There's so many people who have always felt that there's something else. And in many cases, they've known, you know, something that they can't prove, or they've intuitively understood something about our purpose here, or the presence of...

guides or forces in the universe. And those people, by and large, do not really get the approval of any structured organization. And I wonder if you, as someone who, if you had never, you know, if you hadn't gotten that degree in political science, if you hadn't gone to work for the government and worked for a defense system, you know, if you hadn't taken that path,

you would have still had the abilities that you had. And also you wouldn't have had the appreciation or the confirmation that to be honest, that you weren't crazy. And I wonder if you could speak to people from a perspective of someone who got the lived experience of being accepted and validated as powerful and wise in ways that our culture does not even know how to name. What would you say to those people? Well,

I always tell people like if they, if they feel like they have the ability or something happened, it's just, and that it, and it bothers them. I tell them, well, go start doing some research or, or,

Or, you know, if you or go someplace, there's so many metaphysical bookstores. There's so many metaphysical stores where you can walk in and get a reading. There's or there's so many healing classes or there's people have meditation classes. It's like get yourself somewhere immediately where you can get the help that you need. And it doesn't have to be reading a book.

But go somewhere immediately where somebody can tell you this is what's going on with you. Because I do know that when I did start my automatic writing at 29 or 30 years old, there was a metaphysical institute in Alexandria, Virginia that I went to about a month after that.

So I'm like, go out and get, you know, find out what happens. You're not crazy. Now, if you continue, if you wish to continue to be on this path, then, you know, study it. There's so many things on the internet now. If you choose not to, if you choose not to explore it, that's your right too. But if you do choose to explore it, you know, you just have to realize that you can't talk to everybody about it. I,

I'm, you know, I'm Italian. I come from a large family in Pennsylvania. I go to weddings. I go to funerals. I go to family reunions. We don't talk about my abilities because some people just don't. And that, you know, you have to get, we don't talk about what I did or what I do because some people, it just, it bothers people. I mean, I went out the other day to dinner with friends and

I went, my girlfriend works at, she's a fundraiser for Congress. One man I met, he used to, that worked for the, he was a congressional aide that helped the program get money. And they were there with a friend, with a guy. And the guy knew what I did. And he just had such disdain. He just was like, he had disdain for what I did. So I just knew you just don't talk about it. But it should not stop you.

It should not stop you. If you keep doing it and you keep searching, it shouldn't stop you.

I love that message. I think it's so powerful and that especially if you are going through this and you don't have that support, it can be very isolating because the structures and systems of how you've lived your life are going to change and you need to rebuild it in a way that is reflective of what you're going through now in this new reality you're living. And you need this support because actually once I started the automatic group writing at 29, 30, 31, my whole life changed.

I mean, friends kind of, I didn't have, just everything changes. And if somebody wants to go through that, just do it and forget about everything else. You have to have courage and you have to have thick skin. And, you know, I don't know. I mean, sometimes what I went through,

I think I just didn't know any better. I think I went through it because I wasn't, I just didn't know any better. I thought this is the way it was, or this is the way it should be. I never questioned. Now when I look back, I'm like, my God, why did I even go through all some of the crap I went through? Yeah.

People go, you were, you had courage, courage. I was stupid. I didn't know what I was doing. And that's who works for the greatest defense industry in the country. You know, why, if you were given a hard time, why didn't, why didn't you quit? I couldn't have quit because I had no, I couldn't go back to where, what I was doing. They knew why I left. I had no place to go. I mean, it's,

Yeah, but it does take courage. And believe me, my feelings were hurt. You feel like you don't belong because you're a psychic. So then you go work with psychics and then you don't belong there because they're male military and you do channeling. So then I didn't belong there. I mean, so yes, there were times I was miserable, lonely, depressed. But I don't know why. Just think about it.

Things are good in my life right now. That's why I think I'm happy today. But yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I do give, I teach classes. I give readings. The psychic work keeps me very busy and I am kind of excited to kind of get into the creative world.

the creative world because I think it's the best. I used to do a little bit of acting when I was really young, but you know, it's, I mean, you love it. Don't you like it? Yeah. I mean, it's a different kind of intuition. It's funny. People have asked me that, you know, when you're,

playing a character, when you're intuiting what this character would say, how they'd act, you know, and there's rarely, you know, for most of us, you know, who do this, like there's rarely a lot of thought that goes into it. It's absolutely, it's an intuitive feeling. I just, I know how to speak as this person, right? So that's something I can do with fluidity as an actor, but it's much easier, you know, for me to live in a TV box, as Jonathan says, than in real life. Well,

Well, my perspective is that that character exists in some form of consciousness that you are adopting and you're calling into yourself. So in some ways, it's the ultimate form of channeling. You're channeling a whole other human. Yeah, you're channeling. Yeah. And you've had you've had some amazing. I mean, you've had some good roles. You've had some good work. I mean, look, steady work in this industry is...

is very hard to come by. Angela Ford, it's really been so incredible to talk to you. And I mean, you've opened up an entire other dimension of an understanding of this kind of not just work, but these kind of abilities. We're so, so lucky that we got to speak with you. Thank you. Thank you both. I really appreciate it. I had a good time. Thank you. Angela talks about how this bothers people.

that it really bothers people. There's certain people she can't talk to about this. It bothers people because it's effing disturbing to think that it's like a totally normal, acceptable thing that I need to believe that people have extrasensory perception and can remote view. It bothers me. I want to believe it. I respect her. I believe this woman, but it bothers me. Yeah, it bothers people. It's surprising to me that it bothers you when...

Like I look at the slate of guests we've had and sometimes it's like you respond and you're like, yes, that makes sense because this person and that research and I totally understand. And then sometimes it's like we're in the very first podcast we've ever done. No, I don't appreciate that. And you're like, what do you mean non-local consciousness? No, no, no, no, no. Hold on one second.

It's not like I don't remember. And I believe you sent me a private message when she was talking about how she can read the energy of pets. And you're like, you know this. Why are you acting like...

It's going to be surprising to me every single time someone tells me that they can read the energy of a pet. Every time I'm going to be like, what? You sent me the book from Rupert Sheldrake about pets who know when their owners are coming home. Maybe that was ironic. Okay, so tell me what you're surprised about and I'll tell you why you shouldn't be surprised.

You know what it means? No. It means that all the things that you're hiding from yourself. Oh, no. From other people actually exist in this collection of ones and zeros around you in the world. And that people can see through the facade that each one of us carries around. This makes you sleep well at night?

Yes, because it means there's two kinds of people. There's people for whom that information makes them sleep well at night. And there's people like me for whom that information is bothersome. What are you afraid is going to get out? Italian wedding in Western Pennsylvania. And I'm going to be like, you tell her, you tell Angela, give it to her.

What are you afraid is going to get out about you? That you don't want your aura red. You're a blue? No. You know what? She knew I have a PhD in neuroscience. A lot of those things could be said about a lot of people who have PhDs in neuroscience. And she didn't know. And I know this wasn't a formal reading, but I'm a very complicated person. I'm a very complex person. So you think?

What I'm saying is there's an entire other side. I am a deep lover of like liturgy, the Old Testament. Like I weep when I read Psalms. Like I believe in like. No, but she didn't really dive deep. Those parts of me also exist.

Two things struck me. Number one, just two. Did you consider that the place we met, which was an arts and crafts place, is actually one of the medicines that you as a creative person

We talk about like you doing art and how calming that is. And if we have a throwback to the Martha Beck episode where she talks about being creative that we did an exercise in that episode where she, I forget what she did, but she basically made us be creative and she's, she tested our anxiety before and after she was like, before this exercise, she got us to check in from a scale of one to 10. And it was like, how anxious are you? And you gave a number. And then we,

We did the creative exercise and there's, you can't be anxious while you're being creative. Maybe that was a sign about creativity and the role of creativity in our lives. If this were an episode of Jeopardy, what I would say is what is Jonathan's understanding of romance? And that would be his answer. Yes, that's right. The next thing I thought about was,

She talked about training the subconscious to turn on the internal television and receive information about what your day might be like, positive visualization. We actually just talked about this with Dan Harris on our Substack Live. We had this whole conversation about practically using pre-visualization and practicing to overcome, and he's using it to overcome his claustrophobia, um,

Also, that was a fantastically interesting psychological – I don't know. I don't even know what to call it, that he went in this psychological exploration of where that claustrophobia was coming from. But the point I'm trying to make is that he used –

And uses this pre-visualization. So my question when she was talking about that is that you're training the subconscious as a neuroscientist. What is the subconscious doing on a regular basis and how are you changing it to be able to basically function outside of linear time to give conscious information to someone?

I'm that's a great question. And what I'm interested in is your side. So I bring the question. Yeah, that's what I hear. No, I think I think the question is, I think, you know, a satellite question is, what is it about the human experience that some people tap into this?

completely like naturally it just happens to them. Then there's people like Thomas Campbell, who it happens to accidentally as they start to sort of like poke around and then like they can't unsee it. And then there's other people. And I, I know many of these people, you know, there are people for whom they are not open to understanding this and

and they're also not able to or open to experiencing it. Elizabeth Crone is a great example of someone who was going about her life, got struck by lightning and was given a new consciousness because she was struck by lightning and had a near-death experience. But it changed her entire... Her book was called Changed in a Flash. But for most of us who don't already believe and who don't have that, like, I just believe and I don't need proof and it doesn't matter...

Like many of us may not access that. And you know what? We need those people. Like, I don't know. Like, did Stephen Hawking have a deep understanding of ESP? Probably not. Like, I don't think that was his jam. You know, maybe it was. But like people like Albert Einstein, they kind of kept their God on the side while they calculated, you know, the theory of relativity. Yes. And I think there's an enormous amount of suffering involved.

And people come to this often from a place where living just a material life hits a dead end for them. So some people are not open to it and then have a profound experience. Some people have a near-death experience and then get this information. I'm not saying that we should or shouldn't, but if something isn't working in your life, if you feel curious, if you feel stuck, if you want more intuition, more guidance, more synchronicity, if you want...

a larger experience of connecting to something greater than yourself. And, you know, I'm not saying that this is the perfect solution, but there is a path and there are paths to change the experience of only seeing the world from a very material and sort of almost not simplistic, but it's a singular lens.

I really hope that people got as much out of this episode as I did, as Jonathan did. You know, as I said, I think this is one of the most legitimate and validating cases and examples of the limitless possibility of human potential.

If you watch the Teresa Caputo episode or the Suzanne Giesemann episode, you might be able to sort of wave it off and be like, that's someone having a very special experience. But I'm sorry, the government does a lot of things I don't agree with. This is a legitimate program that is used all over the world for us to understand things and have access to things that the unconscious and subconscious can't.

can have access to. Sorry, folks. And if you want to take that in utero, that's a different conversation. But there's a tremendous amount here that cannot be ignored. We did it. So from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and Bialik's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down.