724. Narcissism in Female Friendships: How to Protect Your Energy
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Welcome to the Almost 30 Podcast. I'm Lindsay. And I'm Krista. And we're your hosts, guides, and friends on this path. Almost 30 is not about your age. It's about the feeling. All of us are almost something, seeking community and resources to support the rumblings of transformation within us. Our conversations are deep dives, shepherded by our insatiable curiosity and desire for connection, enduring inspiration, and a sense of levity that we can all benefit from.

We're looking to find the magic in the human experience. Buckle up, baby. Your evolution is waiting.

Hello and welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. We're so glad you're here. It's Lindsay and Krista, your BFFs and all things. Yeah. I was talking to my friend. I was on a walk because we were talking about brand and she's like, I think your brand is transitions. I'm like, okay. I was like, okay. Anything else? How?

How general? Which kind of transitions? Anyway...

So me and Lindsay are coming to you live from opposite coasts today. We are doing this virtually. And I had to update my software for Riverside. There's nothing that sends me more than updating software in a computer or trying to like figure out some sort of software update or like signing a docu-sign or signing paperwork. Like it's so... I have so much patience for things. And...

And then when I have to update software, something sends me to the moon. Dude, I feel that very much so. Well, there should be an alert on any recording that you have to do. Like, hey, this is important and urgent. Please don't ask me to do anything. I had to download Chrome again. And it was the simplest task. And the way that it triggered me is alarming. Like anything else in life, I'm like, people say crazy stuff to me. I'm like,

things happen and there's something about that. Or when someone's like, Hey, could you fill out this paperwork? I'm like, I know. I'm like, I'll actually give you $2 million to not. Yeah. Can we just shake on it? Like I absolutely will not.

I'm always the girl that does like shows up to the very important appointment. And they're like, so did you fill out X, Y, and Z? I'm like, Hmm. They're like, we emailed it to you two weeks ago. I was like, you know, like I have 22,000 already. You're, you're buried somewhere in there. Yeah. I have the Home Depot spam emails. I have you, I have every brand I've ever shopped.

It's crazy. If you're new, welcome to Will's 30. So glad you're here. We've been around for a while. We are a duo podcast, two hosts. I'm in Los Angeles, Lindsay's in Brooklyn. We talk about spirituality, wellness, all the things.

And we love our community very deeply. And today I'm going to be doing a solo episode, deep diving into narcissism in female friendships. We've talked about narcissism before on the show. We had Dr. Ramani on. She's an amazing YouTuber and expert on narcissism. And we've talked about it in a few different capacities. And I wanted to deep dive into this topic specifically because I have had the relationship. I've had relationships with women where we've had the narcissism codependent dynamic.

I'm obviously the victim and I've been the codependent. I'm obviously the victim. No, but it's been just a different flavor of narcissism in relationships than it was with the men that I've been with or in dynamics that I've had with men. So I wanted to break down what it feels like to be in a relationship dynamic with a woman that's a narcissist, whether it's your mother or whether it's a friend. I really focused on friendship because I think this is where I saw a pattern happening in my life that I wanted to break.

And so my hope is that this can help give you some insight and help educate you, maybe give you some relief and maybe give you some context for some things and patterns you might be noticing in your female friendships and even in your life that can support you in moving out of a dynamic like this so that you can live a life that you love. I don't know why, but I feel like in like the, whether it's media or like social media space, like there's so much emphasis on the male narcissist, you know? And so-

It's actually something that I don't know if collectively we're kind of observing or thinking about when it comes to like female dynamics. And I feel like it's probably even sneakier with female dynamics because of like our emotional capacity, like the depth to which we feel things and like also like

make excuses for things. You know, it's like a beautiful part of, of, of I think what, who women are as a whole, like where we kind of love and accept. And then also there's kind of this like line that is hard to draw in these certain relationships. I've had a few instances, but I do remember like a season where we were kind of, we're like, is everybody a narcissist?

So we had to get really specific about what was happening in certain female dynamics. And I have encountered them. I encountered them very strongly, like right before in the year leading up to getting pregnant. I don't know why. I think it was just kind of like a little spiritual purge where I was like, ah, I didn't realize that this person who was like so deeply embedded in my life, whether for a short or long period of time, was actually...

there was some dysfunction in the relationship. It's hard. I think the flavor for me with females is so much more covert. And I think women are so good and so smart. And sometimes that smartness is manipulative. I think the emotional connection and depth that women have can kind of create a dynamic that makes it easier to fall into the patterns where you're codependent or giving up your power. So I also know from a scientific perspective, I think like 8% of women

The population, it has NPD in their men. And I think 4% are women. So there are more men that have it and more men that show it in the way that it is. But I think this will hopefully be helpful to help people understand and move out of it in the female relationships and friendships. Because I know we've both struggled with it. I've definitely struggled with it. I don't have anyone in my life that's like that anymore. But I can really notice the tendencies and patterns, you know, so much quicker. And I think so much of it was like realizing what...

what within me was kind of allowing for that to come in or those relationships to take seed rather than like, you know, focusing so much on the other person. It's like, okay, so what about me is actually creating this experience? And so much of that was like my codependent tendencies and just kind of abandoning myself. And yeah, it's,

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's one of those things that I've had, I talk with my therapist about, there's one relationship I have that still is, and it's like very much that. And I, I just, part of me just is like, I think I have to be done for a bit. Like, it's not even a fact of like working on it. It's like, I kind of have to be done. A hundred percent of it. Yeah.

create space and just kind of reconnect with like my own experience and energy because the narcissistic energy, I'm curious, like what you experienced and found like is so all encompassing. Yes. If you're in deep relationship and I know you have experienced like in your early childhood too. It's intense. And I feel like for me, I just, in my pattern, I will always choose

attachment over authenticity. And I still struggle with that, whether it's dating or friends, like, and that's my biggest work is like, where can I choose myself and my authentic expression and who I am over trying to get the connection or trying to get them to like me or trying to get that person. And I fall, I'm the perfect person for a narcissist. Like,

The way that I fall into the pattern of making it about them, asking them questions, self-erasure, not talking about myself, hiding myself, avoiding my own opinion, doing whatever it is to make them happy or like me. Obviously, there's a range. My self-awareness means that I'm not so far on the scale, but it's so easy for me to fall in that pattern. And I do think that for me...

I've needed to pull myself out of those situations or pull back in order to reclaim and like recalibrate and sort of tend to the part of me that's coming forward to be present with that person to get that attachment and then kind of move. But I do think it's, it's good to take a break. It's like something that you need if like, if it's going to support you in your own expression and feeling better. And I think that person needs a break too. Like they need a little bit

of a moment and a boundary and, and a thing. But for women, I think for me, the biggest thing that I've seen in the narcissism dynamic is the lack of boundaries. Um, the need for admiration, the unreasonable expectations, the, um, it's almost like the victim mentality makes the focus always be on them. So they always victimize themselves so much that it's always about them.

Um, so we can tell like a female narcissist will just make everything, even if it's self deprecating, always about them. So I noticed with men, it could be more grandiose, but the women will make it in almost like a self deprecating, sad way. I'm always the victim. It's always someone else's fault. Everything is sort of vacuumed into them. Even if it's in a way that makes them look bad on the outside, it still gets them that attention. Yeah. Whether it's good or bad attention. Exactly. So we'll dig into this, um,

on the show, which I'm really excited about. And if you want more about narcissism, you can listen to the episode we did with Dr. Romani. It's really powerful and just really, really supportive of people that are going through that. Yeah. I did want to mention just like in my kind of recent work of like integrating, whether things I'm working on in therapy, as I mentioned, kind of this relationship where I'm like, I kind of need a break is I tried to incorporate a

meditation again. And as like a mom, there's just like not a lot of time or I find like a lot of peaceful moments where I'm able to kind of sit and be. And so it's actually been really amazing to, um, put on an activation. So instead of meditating, I've been trying activating, and I know we've talked about superhuman on the podcast before, um, superhuman activations, um,

founded by Mimi Bouchard. She's been on the podcast. She's the founder. You can check out that episode that we had earlier this year, but we love the app and this app. It's so unique. It offers this new type of audio called activations. It's different to meditations because it's more goal oriented, energizing and visualization focused, which I'm the type of learner that just loves a visualization and kind of a more goal oriented guided experience.

So they're kind of like a mix between a motivational podcast, cinematic music, and guided visualizations. It's kind of hard to put into words how epic these audios are, but they really are. And they're specifically designed to help you become your future self. So whether you're aiming to earn more money, get your dream body, gain clarity. In my case, I'm just trying to feel very centered in my relationships.

or maybe you feel like you want to reach your full potential, these activations will really help you get there a lot faster. Yeah, I think that's such a good point because it's like, how can you get out of

the headspace that you're in when you're kind of in these dynamics. And I've really integrated superhuman. If you're at my house, I'm like constantly playing it. It's been so transformative. I mean, while I'm getting ready in the morning or winding down at night, it's just such an easy, effective way to visualize the future version of myself, to be the future version of myself, to feel into the future version of myself. My favorite one to listen to recently is the Embody. I think it's Embody Magnetic Manifestation Energy one.

It's in the anytime category and the music is just so moving.

the words changed my state super quickly. And I've been listening to this one basically on repeat all the time. Yeah. I love that one too. Actually. It's like one of my favorited, but that one specifically, I feel like maybe it's the actress in me, former actress in me. It feels like I'm the main character in my own movie. And I agree. Like the shift is very real. Since I started listening to these, I really feel like,

Just like more like myself, more confident, more of my best self. I think in like a new season of life with lots of change, if anyone is going through that, like you can kind of like stray from your center. So this has really helped me to kind of come back. And when I listened to them,

I really noticed that I'm more productive and aligned with my goals for the day. It like sets the tone. So listening to activations makes it super easy to feel different, to feel elevated. I've noticed a huge difference in my mindset and energy. Yeah. And what I love about them too is that superhumans activations are backed by this self-image psychology and the science of visualization, which we know...

There's so much science behind it now. So it engages your RAS system. It's the reticular activating system, which basically helps your mind

filter in the positive things that align with your goals. So the more you listen, the more you can start to embody that future you and you'll see all your thoughts, beliefs and actions shift to call in line with your vision. So if you guys want to try this, obviously, we are huge fans. I think we've shared it before, but it's just so so so good. So you can get a 14 day free trial so that you can try it out and see if it's right for you. You guys can try

the future self visualization. You could try any of the ones that we've talked about. And with our link, you can get 60% off your yearly membership. So you can go to activations.com

slash a 30 that's activations.com slash a 30 and that's the number this deal is only available through their website not the app store so if you already have a multi-membership you should really change it to yearly because this one's really so much cheaper so head over to activations.com a 30 and take advantage of this free trial trust me you don't want to miss it activation.com slash a 30. so now you have that support for you on this journey you got that support for you stepping into the future version of you i think this was so helpful for me

embodying my future self version, letting go of these narcissistic dynamics, the narcissistic relationships I had with friends in particular. So let's get into the episode, you guys. I want you to love this. And if you have a friend or if you guys have been talking about this, definitely share with them. This is such a great conversation starter. If you had an awakening, if you had an aha moment,

share this with a friend. Talk about it over brunch, over lunch, over pumpkin patch. Over tea. Over tea. Whatever you're going to do. I love you guys so deeply. Thank you for being a part of our lives, our community. Thank you for supporting us all along the way. It's meant the world. If you want to dig into more Almost 30, definitely suggest it. You can subscribe on Spotify and iTunes. Thanks for writing a review. It means a lot. We will see you on the other side. See you.

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This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. I don't know about you, but it is really hard for me sometimes not to compare my life to other people's lives. And I think it's because we just have access to other people's lives more than we ever have through social media and the like. And I don't know, y'all. I just, I find myself...

yeah, getting in that, like those loop thoughts and comparing what I've done, where I am, what I should have, where I should be, all those thoughts that really don't help me be the happiest, most confident, most present version of me. And so I've been working on this in therapy and it's been so freaking helpful. I have just been able to kind of like pull out of that story, zoom out a little bit and really understand like,

that if I'm envying someone else's life, it is really stealing my own joy. And also the reality that like people don't have it all together. What you see on Instagram or social media is not always the full picture, not always real. So,

Yeah.

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So find more balance with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash almost 30 today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash almost 30. Hello and welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. My name is Krista Williams, and I'm so freaking glad you're here, especially if you've been an OG and you've been with us for a long time. We've been doing this thing since 2016. Before podcasts were cool.

I was listening to podcasts since like 2013. I never thought I'd be a podcaster for my life or for a living, but here we are. And I'm so grateful to connect with you. I'm so grateful for everyone that listens. I know there's a lot of options out there. So thank you for tuning into Almost 30. Almost 30 is a podcast that we started when we were almost 30. We were transitioning from our 20s to our 30s.

It felt like a big moment and it really is. There's so much happening during that time. Your prefrontal cortex is coming online. You have your Saturn return. You are going through a lot of transitions and changes like figuring out who you want to marry or who you want to be with, what career path you want to be on. You have a lot of different changes among friends and it's just really powerful. So we wanted to talk about that time. We wanted to explore it and we wanted to really just find a place for solace. Lindsay and I, my best friend and co-host,

who's with me on most of the episodes, felt really lost. We felt like really confused. We felt like there must be more to life. And so we wanted this to be a space where we could explore that and where we could really become the people that we wanna be in this lifetime. So that's my little almost 30 spiel and pitch. In today's episode, we're gonna be talking about female friendships and narcissism. So female narcissists.

And I feel like this is such a hot topic. The narcissist topic is so big. It's such a TikTokified, and that's a new phrase that I just coined, topic. And it's something that I've experienced many a times in my life. And I wanted to bring the conversation around female narcissists in because I feel like we talk about it from the lens of exploring men and how men are narcissistic, but we often don't talk about the nuance of the female narcissist.

and how different it can be. It's a different flavor. It's a different experience. And a female narcissist can impact you much differently.

So for background on me, I work with women as a coach one-on-one. I host retreats all over the world. I'm a speaker. I host almost 30 podcasts with my best friend. And I'm someone that's deeply interested in psychology and self-help and personal development and becoming the best version of myself. I really do a lot of this work to become a better version of me for myself and the world. And my interest in narcissism came from my own journey. So good

Going way back, your girl grew up with a narc. I never knew. I never knew till I got older and I got to explore and understand what narcissism was that I was growing up with a narcissist.

And it was something, honestly, when you are a person that discovers and uncovers that you've been narcissistically abused or you grew up with someone who was narcissistic, it's almost like your entire worldview changes. I can't explain it any better, but it's like the veil is lifted. You see everything so differently because all of the times you felt confused, all of the

All of the times your reality was told it was wrong, all of the times you were self-erasing, all of the times you felt small or something was off or you were almost invisible or you were a pawn for someone else.

just start to make sense. Like your entire life gets recontextualized in this experience. And especially when you grow up with a parent who's a narcissist, you really see that as your reality. So from the ages of zero to seven, your brain is basically recording. You're recording situations, you're understanding the world, you're laying the foundation for your life. So you really create your subconscious mind during this time. So if you grew up with a narcissist, you're like seeing now this as reality. You

Your relationship to your mother is also a lot of what you perceive and understand as your reality.

So that mother relationship with the feminine narcissist can be really, really hard to uncover and unpack. And it becomes something that you see as normal. And then you get older and your prefrontal cortex comes online past the age of 25. And you're able to really see the truth and reality of what is. And then you're able to see, wow, this was not normal. This narcissistic experience was not normal before.

It's actually very normal nowadays. It's crazily normal. So you're not very weird to have it, but it's not what is right or what should be. You should have this experience where you have someone that is actually empathetic for you, that has actually...

healed enough in their own experience that they can hold your experience to, that you're not just used as a prop to make them feel better, that you are someone that can be in your own individual experience, that there's clear boundaries, that their needs are not prioritized over yours as a child. There's just so many different aspects to the experience. So I had that growing up

And then I would get into, um, romantic relationships that would have that same texture at different times in my life. And, um, you know, one of the relationships that I was in, I was with someone that had narcissistic tendencies. And when we talk about narcissism, it's actually only 1% of the population is actually classified as having NPD, which is narcissistic personality disorder. So the disorder is actually very rare to have only 1% of the population, um,

But a lot of times it's something that doesn't get diagnosed because narcissists are not going to go get themselves diagnosed. That's for sure. And it is on a scale. So there is a scale of this. And I really think that, and this is my personal belief, I really do think that the texture and tone and energy and frequency that you have can often bring that out in someone who has narcissistic tendencies. Meaning if you have an ability to,

Or if you are someone that is very codependent, that prioritizes people's needs over your own, that can usually let other people shine, that will take a back seat, that really is someone that is deeply empathetic or an empath, you might actually bring out the textures or these tendencies and traits of a narcissist more than someone else would.

So someone who's an empath is going to bring out narcissistic traits and tendencies of a narcissist much more than someone who's not. It's almost like the, you know, someone that does not have empathy at all. If someone has so much of it, you guys will kind of create this beautiful concoction of perfection of a scale in the middle of having this meeting of someone who has no empathy and then someone who has empathy.

So I, because of probably this experience in my home, am someone that is deeply empathetic and someone that is a deep empath. And as I got older, I found myself in these relationships where I would almost recreate the pattern with my mother. So oftentimes in our healing journey, what we do not heal or see, we recreate in our romantic relationships. So if you had a hard time with your mother or father or the...

dynamic between your parents was challenging, you most likely will recreate this unconsciously in order for you to heal. We are here on earth for pleasure and joy and fun, and also to grow. We are in need of growth. And so I was recreating a dynamic in some of my romantic relationships where I would self-erase, which basically means you really just

don't exist in the dynamic. You make everything about the other person, their needs, their wants, their desires, what they want to do, who they are, what's going on in their life, and nothing about you or your experience has room or exists in the relationship. So

So for me, that looked like always talking about what was going on in the other person's life, always asking them questions, always prioritizing what they wanted to do, never sharing about my own internal experience or my own internal landscape, only focusing on them and what they had going on in their life as a way to stay connected to them.

So oftentimes in these narcissistic, empathic dynamics and relationships, you really just focus on the other person because they don't have a genuine interest in you. They actually don't really care about what's going on with you, what's going on in your world. So in order for you to keep that connection, you continue to focus on them.

That was something I'm really good at doing is continuing to focus on the other people to kind of avoid my own exposing of my own self, but also to keep the connection. My desire was to keep the connection. That's my hungry ghost, as they say in the Taoist philosophy. So

I had this in my romantic relationships. And then it's been interesting that through my journey in life, I also have come across female narcissists in my friendships and female narcissists in general. And I will say that the concoction of a community that I'm in, in Los Angeles, a lot of them are entrepreneurs. A lot of them are influencers. A lot of them are content creators. It is a perfect little petri dish for narcissists, to be honest.

In my work, it is just a...

beautiful space for a narc. I tell you what, the amount of people that have tendencies or traits of narcissism that I've come across in this work has been mind-blowing and fascinating to say the least because in my world, it's like it has to be about you. If you're a content creator or influencer or someone that has a presence online, you want people to look at you. You want people to watch you

You want to be the greatest person in the room. You want to have this grandiose sense of self because it actually kind of gets you far. If you're telling everyone like, I'm amazing, I'm all these things, a lot of times people will believe you and it will get you further than if you're just like, yeah, I'm okay. You know, it might be this thing. Part of what can get you really far in this world as a narcissist is that grandiose sense of self.

Is that overconfidence? Is that belief in themselves that is like beyond what is actually true? And it's these elements of this like charisma, this ability to connect with people easily, but not in a true way. Ability to prioritize themselves over other people to get to the top. So I'm not just saying you have to be an influencer or content creator or entrepreneur to be

be a narcissist. I'm not saying that at all, but I'm just saying in my experience, it's been just like a perfect place to have that happen and have that be. And then there's also really beautiful, empathetic, kind, deep people in this space too, that are deeply in their own work and in their own experience and want the best for people and have a lot of empathy. So it's kind of, you know, both. I've experienced both. But a lot of the reason why I wanted to do this one is because I

The research shows that around 80% of narcissists are men and around 20% are women. But I do believe that a lot of what we see in the narcissism space as it relates to women is these kind of covert, interesting ways of narcissism that are often aren't talked about, but can impact us deeply, especially for an empath. When we look at that data of the 80-20, and that was information from Dr. Ramani, who's an expert in narcissism. She came on the podcast. She's really powerful.

I think that the reason why so many men are narcissists and so many women are in the 20% range is because women most of the time take on the role of being codependent, of prioritizing everyone else's needs over themselves, of taking second reign to someone that's a narcissist or someone that has these tendencies.

And a lot of this comes from that devouring mother archetype. So the generation of men that grew up with mothers that were over-functioning, overdoing, and had that devouring mother where they just have so much energy and focus on the son or this relationship, almost like a pseudo-husband, that it causes the men to be incredibly self-obsessed and self-absorbed.

But when we look at the women, the 20% of women, it's such a different experience. And I think the way that I've experienced it has been so much more psychic and so much more energetic rather than like upfront and obvious where a lot of times when we're working and looking at men who are narcissists, it's like kind of more obvious. It's the charisma. It's the grandiose sense of self.

the lack of empathy. It's like these very obvious things where you're like, yeah, that's a narcissist. I'm going to stay away from that. But women, it's much more psychic and energetic, like I said. So it's things like having really poor boundaries, having to perform in order to please them. It's women that are energy vampires and that just continually take from you.

It is women that are incredibly jealous of you, that don't want you to win, that don't want you to shine. They have a resentment of you when you're in the spotlight. They have these outrageous expectations of you as a friend and you always have to meet them.

Their life is always a higher priority than yours. They can only relate to you if they've had that experience. You're never doing enough in their relationship. So let's unpack all of those because I just said a lot of different ways in which this happens. And again, this was prompted by a situation I had recently where I kind of was in this dynamic with someone that I saw these sort of traits and tendencies, but I

You know, it's my priority to not be close to someone with this, but I'm not going to not be friends with someone with these tendencies and traits. I'm just going to do whatever I need to do to be in control of myself and my experience. So I wasn't going to cut this person out. But when I saw these things happen very clearly, I was like, oh, this is what's happening.

So the first one where we can tell with female narcissists and female narcissists and friendships is really poor boundaries and a defiance of your boundaries. So these type of people will defy your boundaries. Say you have a boundary where you don't share a lot of information about your life or something you're going through or things that are hard for you, or you're not someone that really, um,

you know, processes a lot externally. This person is going to have a problem with you having these boundaries and they're going to want in. They want information about you. They want data on you. They want to know what's going on with you in a way that doesn't feel helpful and supportive. So I'll give an example. I'm someone that's an internal processor. I am, because of my past and history and just the way that I like to operate in the world, I process a lot of things internally and

So that means that when I'm going through something, I actually process through solo time, through solitude, and just by myself. I think about it. I, you know, feel it. I process it. I'm really in conversation with myself. A lot of times other people are external processors. So they do processing with friends, you know, talking about it, expressing it, being in it. But for me, it's always felt better to work through things on my own and

And I do think that this is a way that I protect myself and that I keep myself from being intimate with people and being let down by people. But I also think it's a lot of ways to really just kind of get to the core of what I'm going through and figure it out. I also process with my therapist. So that's my other priority for how I process. So I'm someone that's an internal processor. So if you're an internal processor, like,

Shout out because sometimes people may not understand you or may not get you or feel like they can't be close to you because you're kind of in your own journey internally. And I just want to give you love because it's okay to be an internal processor. So I'm an internal processor with things. So this person came to me having an issue with the fact that I don't share a lot and I'm not someone that's open. And they felt like they had an issue with the fact that they share a lot with me and I don't share a lot with them.

And this has nothing to do with wanting to care for me or be there for me or to love me. It has everything to do with them feeling uncomfortable with feeling exposed and not having enough data and information about me. So when someone is coming to you and they're mad that you're not sharing with them because you've shared with them or because they've shared with you and you haven't shared with them, that's not about you. It's not about your experience. It's not about caring for you. It's not about what you're going through. It's about them feeling uncomfortable

insecure because they've shared a lot and they don't have enough data and information on you in return. So it's their own vulnerability and their own issue. But in this case, you know,

I was just like, I'm an internal processor. It's kind of how I rock. It's how I roll. But they are defying the boundary that I have. So I have a psychic boundary. I have a emotional boundary that I don't share a lot about certain things in my life with people. And that is not okay with them. So this is an issue with them. So most people that are healthy in my life and in relationships and hopefully in your life, if you have a boundary, they can feel it.

So this would look like someone asking you, hey, how's everything going with your dad? You know, I'm really struggling, but I'm going to get through it.

So when I say that, you can sort of feel the boundary there. I'm really struggling, but I'm going to get through it, period. And there's almost a frequency of she's got it. She doesn't want to talk about it. She doesn't want to go there. A lot of times boundaries actually don't need to be said or spoken. They can be felt and experienced. So me saying something like that kind of means the door is shut. I don't really want to talk about this right now.

But for that person, it feels like you're hiding something. It feels like you're not sharing. It feels like there's something more and that doesn't feel good for them. They want to have control over how much information they have of you and how much information they can get from you. So those boundaries that you have psychically or emotionally don't feel good to them and they want in and they want more.

So it's a really powerful way to see and feel and experience female narcissists. They want to have as much information on you as possible. They are not okay with your boundaries. They are not okay with you having your own internal experience unless they're in control of it, unless it involves them. They are also very jealous of you.

So this jealousy thing, they are feeling jealous of you. This can be experienced where they're kind of making comments or remarks where they're cutting you down. They're kind of judging you. They're just kind of clipping you. I call it clipping. So clipping is this experience where someone in your life or in a relationship with you just kind of clips at your heels. You're flying high. You might be in conversation talking about something and they'll just make a little comment to just keep you small.

I had this as a example recently where I was at a dinner party

And someone was commenting on, uh, about how I looked kindly. They were saying something about how I looked. And this person says, Oh, you kind of look like this person, like a celebrity, not very flattering celebrity. So as a way to like cut that down, because a lot of people were commenting on how I look, they wanted to make a comment in a clipping way to compare me to a celebrity that is not very attractive negatively. So it's a little clip. It's a

There was another situation where I was talking at a dinner and I was talking about relationships and dating. And I was saying that I'm ready to be with my partner. I'm really excited. And she said, oh, so you've changed your mind because before you were in lovership and you just wanted to date. So now you want this. And I'm like, yes. And it's okay for me to change my mind. So the narcissist is kind of tracking you.

and just cutting you a little bit. They're not saying like, oh my God, that's so exciting. That's amazing. Like understanding that you as a human, it's okay for you to change your mind. It's okay for you to have your own internal experience, but for them, they're going to be focused on the fact that you changed your mind. It's something different than what they know. And they just want to kind of check you a little bit like, oh,

Hmm, that's different than what you said before. Like what's going on there? So they're going to be very jealous of you. It's going to come out in very weird ways. It might be jealous and sad. They might be like, oh, you're so much prettier than me or you're so much smarter than me or so much richer than me or fitter than me, whatever the things are. It might come out where it's like kind of victim-y. I've had a lot of that in my life, especially with, you know, growing up where it was like, oh, you're so much, you know, cooler, smarter, whatever the things are. And it doesn't feel good.

You know, a lot of times when people compliment you with love and like intention, it feels good. Like it feels good to be seen. Women love to be seen. But with a female narcissist, it feels like something icky. It feels like something wrong. It feels like something's there and you don't know what it is. And this is a lot of what it is to be in relationship with a female narcissist as you can't quite put your finger on it.

It feels funky and it feels icky and you can't explain why because it's said and done with a smile. Oh yeah, you look so good. Like what have you been doing? It's not straightforward. There's something there that feels funky and the energy does not feel clean. So the female narcissist will be jealous of you. They will be resentful of you when you have the spotlight because they want to have the spotlight.

So if they don't have the spotlight, they will be resentful of you. I was at a dinner recently with someone and

It was like they had been running the entire conversation at the table and then it kind of switched. I started to like run it and it was like a clipping right away or like they started to make jokes. They're like, oh, Krista, you did this and that was so funny. Making fun of me, like kind of bringing up personal things about me that were not known to the table to cut me down and make fun of you. So they're going to find some way to take back the spotlight and to reclaim the power over the table or over the energy.

And oftentimes they'll kind of like make jokes about you that, um,

seem loving and playful, but aren't where it's like, oh yeah, Krista, you're so messy. Or you always are like doing this thing or like, oh my God, you're always late. Or you're always someone that just, you know, calls guys late at night, or they kind of bring up these things that can be seen as playful and funny, but actually don't feel good. So again, it's kind of gray area. It's that gray area where you can't put your finger on and be like, that's not nice.

That doesn't feel good. It's kind of like, oh my God, I was kidding type of thing. So they're going to be resentment of you, resentful of you. If you have the spotlight, they're going to try and take it back. They don't want you to have the spotlight or have the attention or the energy. They also have outrageous expectations for how you should meet them as a friend or how others should meet them as a friend. Okay. They have outrageous expectations of you as a friend. I had this recently. Someone shared something with me. This is the same person. Someone's super long.

I liked it and then my phone died. So I wasn't able to fully respond until a few hours later. And then I got a call that was like, they were upset that I didn't reply in the way that they wanted. And it felt like everyone else replied in a really nice way, in a kind way, in a thoughtful way. And I just didn't. I had let them down because I didn't respond to this text in a timely manner. I didn't respond in the way that they wanted. And I didn't give my full energy and attention to something that felt important to them.

Now, it is important that we are there for our friends and that we are kind to our friends and loving to our friends and that we give our friends that deserve it our full concerted attention. But to have the expectation of you being fully at the ready to respond to this one person in the way that they want at all times is ridiculous. In this case, this person's not taking into consideration that you have an entire life of your own that you're living and

And that this person's life is not first and foremost your priority. So their expectations of you are going to be incredibly high. They need a lot from you. They desire a lot from you. They compare you to other friends. They're like, you do this and this person does this and you make sure to do this. You're always there for me, dah, dah, dah, dah. And they really, really, really mostly want you to prioritize them over you.

You always have to be there for them. They're going through a lot of different things and you are the person that has to be there for them. You have to forego anything that you have going on in your life, your relationships, your work, whatever it is to prioritize their situation, their processing, their problems. And again, nuance.

There will be times in your life where you are in relationships with people that need you and that need you when it's inconvenient and that want your attention when it's inconvenient and that desire your support and your love. And we should always be there for the people that love us. But these people do it without regard to your life. So they're not checking in like, hey,

Is now a good time? You know, do you have a second? Like, I would love to talk. I know it's the middle of the day, but I'm really going through something. Like, is this okay if we have this moment? They're not checking in with you. They have a disregard for you in this case and scenario. They're not seeing you as a whole individual in person with your own experience.

They're like, this is a means to an end. They're like, this person should be there for me. I deserve this. This is normal. You know, this expectation should be met. And if it's not met and then there, then this is bad. If it's not met, then this person is bad and something's wrong with them.

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So in the female narcissistic relationship too, what can happen is you can get devalued and discarded. So if you don't meet their super high expectations for friendship that they oftentimes won't meet with you, you will be devalued and discarded. So in this case, when I didn't respond to this person in a timely manner and the way that they wanted, I am then devalued and not seen as a good friend or a good person that's been there for them, even though I had been there for them every day.

that week. It's like this one thing negated all of that hard work that I had put into this relationship. And I was not seen as my own person with my own life. And I wasn't given empathy, empathy to be like, oh yeah, maybe she's busy. Maybe she's got something going on. Maybe she has her own life. I'm having my own experience. And this is a problem for me because you didn't respond to me in the right way. Me, me, me, me, me.

A really huge part of this is that their life is a higher priority than theirs. You need to fit into their life. You need to be an asset to their life. You need to benefit their life because their life is more important than your life. You may feel yourself in these relationships and situations like,

putting them first all the time. What do you want to do? Where do you want to go? What is interesting to you? Talking about their life, their internal landscape, their relationships, their work, their situations, their scenarios, and never really spending time to focus on anything that has to do with you. You're prioritizing this relationship and this experience all the time, and you just become kind of like a sidekick.

I always call it sidekick energy. I've had this so much in my life where I've hung out with people and especially women, and I'm a really safe space

And I'm a really open book. And I'm also someone that can hold a lot of space. So I'm deeply interested in people. And that can oftentimes feel addictive to someone that's a narcissist because they feel really seen. They feel really heard. I'm like a sparkly, shiny object. And they can, you know, get a lot from me. So it's very interesting for them to be with me because I'm always going to kind of make their life a higher priority than mine because I'm

Sometimes I don't really care and I oftentimes get sick of my own life. So I'm like, sure, let's talk about your life all of the time. But you need to feel like your life and your experience and your emotions and your feelings is of equal priority to the women in your life and especially the friends in your life. I also think this is a unique characteristic is

The narcissist and the female narcissist, this is my personal perspective. I don't know if there's data on this, but I've found this in my life. They oftentimes can only relate to you if they've had the same experience. So you'll be going through something or, you know, experiencing something in your life and they actually cannot relate unless they've had the direct experience. An example, I have, my dad is sick and, and dying and

Someone that is a narcissist as a female actually won't be able to hold space or be there or understand or be a listening ear or be a safe space because they haven't had a parent that's dying. So it actually doesn't compute for them because they have to have themselves at the center of every experience. So if you start to talk about something maybe and they have a similar situation they can think of, they're like, oh yeah, that was like the time when my ex broke up with me and he had...

you know, cancer or whatever the thing is, like they only find themselves connected to you and relating to you when they've had the same experiences in life. So example is, you know, I dated someone that, um, you know, let's say cheated on me and they're like, oh yes, I had someone cheat on me too. It was so hard for me. And I remember, you know, going through it and just feeling like, wow, this is such an interesting experience and dah, dah, dah, dah.

It's almost like you're passing the ball to them and then they are like, oh yes, me again. This is how I bring myself back in the situation. So if you were to talk about something with nuance, something that has a different texture than what they know, they actually can't be there for you. So your friends and the people in your life should have enough emotional depth or capacity to hold a different experience.

And if they can't, they can say, hey, God, I've never been through something like that, but I can only imagine. And I'm here for you. And however you want me to be here for you, I'm totally available. Even calling it out to be like, I've actually never had an experience like that. I'm just so amazed. And I'm here to listen. And I'm here to be with you through this.

But the narcissist is like kind of racking their brain. And if they can't find an exact scenario that has to do with them, they don't even know what to do. It's like they short circuit and they cannot compute. So I'm always wary of that. That's such a telltale sign for me. And it's also such a telltale sign when I'm with someone and I'm talking about something in my life and I'm

They keep trying to relate back with something that they've been through or gone through. I'm like, no, actually we can have different life experiences and I can bring a different flavor to this relationship and I can bring a different texture of experience to this relationship and we actually don't need to relate on everything.

whether it's narcissism and codependency, there's this need to always relate like, oh, we're very similar. Oh, you're just like me. Oh, I see that you also do this. God, we're the same. You know, there's this constant like bringing to and relating and being same and similar to that happens in the narcissism codependency dynamic that I also don't love.

We can be in a safe relationship and a loving relationship and friendship and not have the same opinions and not feel the same about things and be very different. It's actually really beautiful. One of my dear friends, she's really powerful at this. She always stops people from doing that. You know, if someone's like, oh yeah, well, we're the same. And we are like this. She's actually like, no, I actually don't have that experience. That's, that's not how I feel.

You know, my experience is this. Yours can be that, but I actually don't feel that way. So she always comes back to kind of like a separation and a sovereignty with people when they're trying to make her the same or when they're trying to make her similar. And I've taken on a lot of that, which has been really beautiful.

The narcissist with that relationship and that dynamic, you will never feel like you're doing enough. You'll never feel like you're talking to them enough, like you're being there for them enough, like you're supporting them enough, like you're giving to them enough, like you're sharing enough, like you're being a good friend. It's the not enoughness. It is constant not enoughness. And this is also felt in romantic relationships with narcissism, but I think there's an especially...

interesting texture with women because women have that not enoughness within us where we in the feminine, in our lower state, never feel like we're enough. We never feel like we're beautiful enough, smart enough, thin enough, you know, cool enough, interesting enough, successful enough, you know, all of these things, whatever the not enoughness is. So that also transpires in our relationships where there's the never enoughness and the not enoughness

seen in these relationships and you feel like you're never doing enough. You're not staying in touch with them enough. You're not supporting them enough. You're not asking them enough questions. You're not sharing enough. You're not there for them enough. You're not enough. In our healthy relationships and female relationships, it should feel like we're enough. We want these relationships with women to feel like containers for feeling into and expressing the most beautiful healed aspects of us. And that is our enoughness.

In my relationships with women, I want to feel like I'm enough. I want to feel like the effort that I put in is enough, that it is seen, it is heard, it is validated. And when you're working with someone that is a bottomless pit for energy and attention and affection and validation, it's never going to be enough because they have a bottomless pit. They're going to constantly need more and more and more.

All of your time, energy, and attention is going into a void. It's never going to be enough for them because it's never enough for themselves. So when we think about this relationship, we can also think about the stages. You have the love bombing stage. This is where they're obsessed with you. They adore you. They pedestal you. They compliment you. They, you know, are just so enamored by you and in love with you. And

I've had this so much. Oh my gosh. I am just thinking back now to this relationship and I'm like, God, that love bombing, I didn't even realize it. And I was like, it almost felt, you know, for me, sometimes this type of love bombing, it feels right. Cause I'm like, yeah, I'm fucking dope. But then there's a part of me that it feels icky. It feels a little undeserved or it feels like for me, I don't want to reciprocate because I don't know what's going to happen. And

I don't know where this is going to go. And I feel uncomfortable. So in a naturally loving relationship dynamic, you know, it can feel good to receive someone's love or validation. And you don't feel like you need to do anything. You can just kind of be like, wow, that was true for them. Like they really see that about me and it feels really good. And it just feels good. But with someone that's a narcissist, it always feels a little off. It always feels like a little bit like uncomfortable. You're like, is there anything I have to do with this? Do I have to like,

prove myself? Do I have to say stuff back to them? Like it's kind of odd. So I've always felt a little uncomfortable with it, but you'll have that love bombing. They want to be with you all the time. They just gas you up. They talk about you to other people. They, you know, talk about you in front of you. They just are kind of obsessed with you and pedestalizing you.

And then when you eventually don't meet their outrageous demands and needs and, you know, have boundaries and have a solid sense of self and choose to not be in the dynamic, you

they will start devaluing you. And that will be finding ways to not have you on the pedestal. So like, you didn't respond to me in a timely manner, or you weren't there for me, or it's all about anything that doesn't live up to my super high standards. As the narcissist, you're not, you know, self-sacrificing for me. You've basically had your own life

And that is not okay with me. You've had your own opinion. You've had your own experience and that is not okay with a narcissist. So they will devalue you. They will cut you down. They will find ways to like kind of psychically like clip you and keep you small.

And then there's the discarding. So the discarding is basically when you get cut off, when you get broken up with, when you get dumped, when they're done with you and they've had their way with you, they got as much supply as they could from you and they no longer want you in their life. So they will completely discard you.

And for anyone that's going through this, I know it can feel very painful to be discarded by anybody, by a romantic relationship or someone you love or someone you don't love. Being discarded doesn't feel good for anybody, but it is such a beautiful thing. Like to be free from these dynamics is when you really come into your sovereignty, really when you come into yourself, when you can become the best version of you, when you can live a life that is unique to you.

When you spend so much of your time and energy prioritizing someone else's experience over your own, that is not a life that you want. That is not your own life. You will never have the job you want, the relationship that you want, the body that you want even. You will never have happiness and peace if you always are prioritizing someone else over you because that person is not prioritizing you. They're only prioritizing themselves.

So this discarding can be heartbreaking and feel weird. It can feel like you did something wrong. As a codependent, the undercurrent of codependency is something is wrong with me. And so we can kind of think about ourselves like something's wrong with me. Why did I get discarded? Maybe I wasn't good enough. Maybe I didn't do enough for them. Maybe I'm not a good friend. No, a normal, healthy person in relationship is able to be in touch with you, to connect with you, to communicate with you, to talk about your experience, to hold your own unique experience and

and, you know, an equal value to their own. And it just means nothing about you. So the discarding can feel abrupt and weird and awkward, but it's really a beautiful thing. I'm hopeful that this was helpful. Again, I'm not seeking to diagnose everybody. I'm not seeking to perpetuate

you know, these crazy conversations about it. I'm just really here to share about my experience and to share some of the traits and tendencies that have really impacted my life. And when I really was able to see them clearly, it changed me from a cellular perspective and it helped me become more of myself. It liberated my voice. It liberated, um,

a lot of peace for me. And I would love for us all to have more peace and sovereignty. And when we're able to pull up out of these dynamics with the narcissist, it helps them too. It helps them, you know, have to rely on and hopefully look at themselves. You know, when we stop being their supply, it's actually beneficial for both parties. They can hopefully go on closer to their healing because they can see another relationship that didn't work. And you can go on closer to your own healing.

So again, stay in your own sovereignty, stay in your own truth. Don't diagnose anybody, but use this as support. If you feel like you're in a narcissistic friendship with a woman or a mother, this is also applicable to mothers. I did a few other episodes on narcissism, especially narcissism with parents and family. You can search narcissism almost 30. We have a really great episode with Dr. Ramani on narcissism and empaths and talking a lot about the nuance of being a narcissist and being with a narcissist and being in relationship to a narcissist.

And it's just such a potent topic. So almost 30 episodes. We have over 700 by searching Spotify, Apple podcasts. You can subscribe, rate, and review. It means so much when you do that. Thank you so much when you guys do that. It means so much. I love it.

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ad-free, just the bangers of almost 30. And you can find me on Instagram. It's at, it's Krista. It's I-T-S-K-R-I-S-T-A. I share self-development, growth, body stuff on my page. And then itskrista.com where I have courses and programs. And I also coach women one-on-one. That's like something I do on the side. So if you're interested in that, send me an inquiry. And if I have spaces, we can chat. So itskrista.com, I-T-S-K-R-I-S-T-A.

K-R-I-S-T-A. I love you all so much. Thanks for rocking with me. Thanks for cruising with me. You are the best and I'll see you on the next one. Thank you guys again for listening to me talk about this specific situation that I made an entire episode of education for all of you guys today on narcissism in female friendships. Definitely share with a friend like I was saying and then you can search narcissism to find more episodes in education about that. It's something that I've struggled with throughout my entire experience and existence in life. It's been...

the cornerstone of who I am until my awakening about around it a few years ago. And, um, I'm so grateful to be out of that dynamic and I can't tell you how big and beautiful life is after you get out of it. So I'm glad you were here and I'm glad you enjoyed. Thank you all so much for listening. It means so much to Krista and I, um, just a little reminder. It's actually a big reminder. We have a book coming out next year and, um,

We would love for you to pre-order the books that you get it the day it comes out June 3rd. We're so proud. We're so excited. We wrote this for you. This is for anyone who's almost 30 and also anyone just going through some change. You know, this is really to set the tone for the rest of your life, how you navigate change within your relationships, your career, your purpose.

within yourself, your body. And we cannot wait to share it with you. So there's a link in the show notes that you can order the book. You can also go to the link in our Instagram bio. Your pre-order would mean the world. Yeah, we love you guys so much. Excited to share it with you next year and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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