751: THIS Shapes your BODY, EMOTIONS and APPEARANCE
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Hello and welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. Hi everybody. Welcome to the show. It's Lindsay and this is my best friend Krista.

We're here in New York. Happy you've joined us. Hi on YouTube. We're on video. Or if you're listening on your walk or in your car, what's up? Make sure you subscribe. We have new episodes every single week. Eight years. Haven't missed a week. I'll say it again. I miss the days of no video. I do too. But it's a whole rigmarole. Well, I just, I do think we can care less because our audience loves us no matter what. But

The internet's a scare. I'm not worried about y'all. I'm worried about myself. It's just crazy. It's like a time capsule. You get to see yourself at every phase and stage. And it's just not fair. Not everyone has that. Dude, I was scrolling. Not everyone has a diary of them talking to their best friend for eight years. I don't know which will be a blessing when we're 80. Um...

I was scrolling back. I don't know why I did this. Oh, I wanted to see in 2018 when I got lip filler and thought no one noticed or something. I was like talking to a friend. I was like, look at this. It's crazy because I just don't want to see it. I forget. Okay. I remember the wedding. Your parents at the wedding were like, what? Yes, I have that picture.

But I was looking. Then I got lost in all content from 2018. I can't. We would have photo shoots individually and together every other week. Crazy. We can do this on air. It's weird because that's what I felt like working was. I'm like, okay, we've got to... But right now with Instagram, though, I guess it's so normalized. But I guess we're not doing photo shoots because it's more...

organic content. So I guess that's what it is too. Because back in the day, if you guys remember on social media, it was like Instagram was very much like the crazy travel blogging pictures, the crazy like fashion aesthetics where you'd be in, you'd take one outfit to Chinatown and you'd have like all your colors of your filter match and you'd go on a Ferris wheel and then you would go to like the top of like the wall, the Great Wall of China and like you would like do all these things for these photo shoots.

But I have like stories changed. The filter game. Or story saved. Blur that was so crazy. I would do these like crazy fonts over everything. Oh, yeah. The filters are just nuts. But I have stories saved from when we would do like Instagram stories for like episodes or like an event we're doing. And I was like, dude.

I just like the way I talked, my voice, like my... It makes me sad, to be honest. Whole vibe. I mean, I love her. Peace and love, but holy. And I'm going to probably say that about me now. I will. You better not. I mean, I can't. It's got to stop somewhere. It's got to stop somewhere. I have to look back at one version of me and be like, she's awesome. I know. And it's not like I didn't think I... It's not like I don't think I'm awesome, but I really have had a hard time being like...

Girl, what is going on? It's crazy. We'll laugh about it after, but I just, yeah. Anyone who wants to have a laugh, go back in your- This is the thing. I want to laugh about it privately. I want to keep it private laughter. I don't want the whole world to be able to laugh. Oh, totally. And that's what the whole world can laugh and laugh and laugh at how ridiculous. Dude, remember when we made necklaces? I'm just looking at these photos. I remember when we wore Christmas tree leggings with like- I am enough. I am enough.

I love that necklace. Wow. Those were like, we bought them on Etsy and then resold them. So it's not like we made them. We said, I am enough. Piece of almost 30 merch. We had, our dad hats were dope. Almost 30 nation. We had dope dad hats. We had dope sweatshirts that we did with a collaboration with a brand. Right. That is just so...

Life is amazing. Yeah, life is amazing. Life just continues to rock as you go. I'm excited about this conversation. I need to know all about fascia. I need to know all about the lymph system. This is something that I think is so underrated for us to understand and talk about. And I feel like this is a conversation that I'm going to tune into. Yeah, I feel like years ago, you and I kind of like...

into the world of fascia on our own. Yes, with? Yeah, with like practitioners in LA and like just kind of got it. And we were like, whoa, this is really important. And then we never really ended up having conversations on the pod about it. We've talked about it briefly with different people, but to really go in and understand the

The fascial system in the body, how it's connected to literally everything, why it's so important to regularly stretch using resistance was just fascinating for me to do this deep dive with Bonnie and realizing how important it is for our immune system, our hormones, our digestion. So many of us are walking around like literally plastic beings. What do you mean? Like...

Instead of having like a really pliable, like yummy fascial system, like it literally is like walking plastic stiffness, tightness. Like we feel it. Yeah. But we don't understand how it's connected to...

different systems in the body. So not only do we talk about the fascial system, but we have to also talk about the meridians of the body and how it's connected to, say, your large intestines and your heart or your liver. So it's really like this...

kind of bigger, bigger picture that we zoom out to that we then bring to a very tactical, like these are the stretches that you can do today because you are someone, say, you're sitting at a desk most of the day. You might be experiencing obviously like neck pain, shoulder pain, tightness here, tightness there. This is how it's affecting potentially your digestion, your sleep, your hormones, et cetera. And

It literally like minutes per day, this focused movement and stretching with resistance can fix that and make you more pliable. I know she's been featured in Goop, Vanity Fair, The New Yorker, The Strategist, Well and Good, Bustle, like all over the places. And it's called Facial...

Flossing, right? Yes. So the floss is her brand. I met Bonnie years ago just through an odd job that I had and she was working for a brand and I just, I fell in love with her spirit. She's hilarious. A former dancer and just all around like creative who I love to watch in the world. And

So yeah, I love this conversation. It's very practical, tactical. And I think you're going to love it. Yeah, I think this is something that I think we all, I think every single person says I don't stretch enough. Oh, yeah. We are all, I went to Barry's today. Did you warm up? Did you cool down? Did you stretch? And for me, I'll do yoga once a week. And that truly is, I look forward to it so much because it is like,

what my, I know my body feels it in the moment. It's like my body most craves. Yes. Like the most intuitive movement. I'll stretch a lot when I watch TV. I think that's something that if I watch TV, I'll be stretching. But still, I mean, we could be stretching so much more. And when you do feel limber, you feel the movement, everything is just better in life. I think for me, like stretching, I don't fully commit to it because I don't know if I'm doing

It's intuitive, but then I don't know if certain stretches I'm doing right or for the length of time I should or whatever. So that's why if you're watching on YouTube, I would catch this on YouTube because we do, she gets up and demonstrates just a couple things visually. Talking about it right now, I want to get up and stretch. I know.

I'll stretch my entire flight. That's my like old person thing. I'll like stand in the back. I'll like, I'll have my hands behind my back and I'll like have my knees slightly bent and I'll be just stretching the whole time. Yeah, I hate to be in confined places. Oh my gosh, no, I have to be in the aisle way to move and get up and stretch like...

It's an absolute must. You're that girl. You can go to thefloss.com. She has programs. She's actually teaching live classes in New York. You can become a member of The Floss. It's incredible. So thanks again, Bon. I love you. Thanks for chatting and coming in person. Oh, I can't wait. This is so inspiring. I can't wait to learn more about the science and everything behind it. So

excited to dig in. You guys can watch Almost 30 on YouTube. Make sure to subscribe. Thank you for rating and reviewing the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It means so much. I just love seeing your guys' little kind notes and just insight into the show. We have Morning Microdose, which is a ad-free clips channel. That's pretty incredible. TikTok and Instagram, where you can get some laughs from memes,

some inspiration from our reels. And then you can find me on Instagram at itchkrista. And I'm at lindsaysimsick. We love you guys. We'll see you soon. Bye. Bye. I love opening up my cabinet and seeing my little apothecary. I have so many Anima Mundi products just waiting for me to make the beverage of my dreams, to help me to go to sleep, to

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Okay, I'm really excited. I'm here with Bonnie, my bonbon. I'm so thrilled to be sitting down with you. We've been friends for a while now. I have been a recipient of your incredible magical hands and work and just also a student of your work in the world. And today we're going to talk about

fascia. We've actually never deeply covered this on the podcast. 700 plus episodes, and we have not gone in on it. So I'm really excited because I really think this is a huge potential unlock for people when it comes to their whole body health and

feeling just vital, feeling confident in their bodies. This was a huge unlock for me. So I'm just really excited to get into it. So just tell us your background just to kind of set the stage for a combo. Sure.

Lindsay, first of all, it's a treasure to get to be with you. I always love being with you. So thank you so much for having me. And yes, it is time that we all learn what fascia is and why it's important to us. And where did this begin? I was three and a half. My mom put on the Bershnikov nutcracker. She said it was the first time I ever sat still for more than 30 seconds. This little body was born to move.

And I think I knew at a very young age that I wanted to dance. And I was also not just obsessed with watching movement, but also watching the body and trying to figure out how it worked and very invested in the body in general. And so my dance life progressed. I

started doing yoga at 15, 16 and Pilates as well to support myself in my dancing. And then that kind of carried over after I went to university and I decided to get my yoga teacher training. And, um,

Throughout my dance education and my yoga teacher training, fascia was not mentioned except for perhaps 30 seconds when we were talking about plantar fasciitis and injury prevention class. And so as I was, I began my professional career right after university and I was doing all sorts of things to try to take care of myself.

you name it, going to yoga all the time, which is like a blessing and like deeply, deeply grateful in my heart for that. I was getting massage. I was doing acupuncture. I was doing some gyro. I was definitely doing Pilates, all these modalities to support and sustain my body so that I could have a long career. But I was still struggling with injuries and, um,

struggling with my physiology too, just like always getting sinus infections, low immune system, some trouble with my cycle. And that's kind of a side note for later on. But when I met or actually when I read my former teacher, Bob Cooley's book,

He's a genius at transfiguring the fascia, among many other things. When I read his book, I was like, why is no one talking about fascia? And this is a long ass time ago. I'm dating myself, but maybe 15 years ago, 14 years ago at this point. And the first exercise I tried out of his book was the quad exercise. And I immediately got a detox reaction. And I was like,

whoa, this, whatever he's doing, this works. And of course I was doing all those things to take care of my body, but this particular technique, which I'm going to talk about later, was so impactful. And about...

three to five months, I can't remember later, Bob came to the yoga studio that I was teaching at to give a lecture. And he brought some of his posse with him. And in that lecture, he kind of eyed me and he was like, you, you need to learn this. And I was like, me? I'm just a dance

Isn't it fun when like teachers really see you and they see your interest, they see like the light in your eyes around a certain subject? Yeah. Yes. And he saw it for sure. And I ended up getting a private session that week and I couldn't believe I went to rehearsal the next morning. So at the time I was dancing in the ballet company and I felt like I was flying. Yeah.

And I finally felt like my damn ends of my toes, which I was always like, please point, like trying to command it from my brain down to my toes. I remember that when I was in ballet class. Everyone else's toes were so much pointier than mine. Mine just like the ends of my toes, maybe because of my bunion, could never figure it out. But once I had that private session, I felt like I had much more command over my toes.

And a lot of injuries that I was struggling with started to diminish. Obviously, that one time was a huge up level. But then I got to go to Bob's studio and start really getting work done over time. And injuries started to diminish. And beyond that, my physiology started to improve. So it was a true health upgrade, a huge leap.

and how I felt in my body, how I was experiencing the world around me. So that's kind of how it began. So now I am sharing this particular way to change your fascia and have mixed it with a lot of other movement modalities that I've practiced in my lifetime. And

And it's a real honor and a privilege to support people in their journey with their body and their experience within their body. Yeah, it's beautiful work. And I've taken both classes with you and done one-on-one flossing. Both super, super powerful. Talk to me about...

So the fascia is kind of this like full body web. What is it connected to? Because you mentioned it changing your physiology. So how does it do that? What is it connected to? Yeah, let's roll it back to basics and go full blown fascia 101 because this is where it gets fun. And we've kind of entered the wild, wild west of studying fascia just recently.

the tip of the iceberg here at this point in time, new research is coming out all the time. So it's an exciting time to be interested in fascia because it's something that we get to learn about and unlearn and try not to be attached to the things we know because lots of new information is coming out. But

And if you haven't heard the word fascia, don't worry about it. It's somewhat been discarded by Western medicine for hundreds of years. Why do you think? Let's tag that. That's a big baby. So let's tag that and come back to it. But so no shame if you haven't heard about fascia and you might have heard it as a buzzword. And those of us that are familiar with fascia knows that it wraps around

surrounds and supports our muscles, our bones, our cell walls, our spinal column, our brain, our nerves, our organs, et cetera. No big deal. No big deal. It's,

But the story doesn't end there. First of all, it doesn't just wrap. It also permeates and impregnates into all of those various tissues in the body. I mean, say impregnates. That is a powerful, that's a powerful word. Yeah. Okay. Goes right in there and actually forms the interior scaffolding for all of these tissues, which we can go into that a little bit more later too.

But again, that definition isn't adequate to describe the profundity, the phenomenon of the tissue called fascia. Fascia means to bind or to hold in Latin, and that is one of its primary jobs. But it's also the organizing and unifying principle in the body. It literally is our baseline material and creates an arena in which our cells develop,

specialize and organize. So it's a really big fucking deal. And we haven't really been paying attention to it. So the exciting part is if we start paying attention to it, hopefully like myself, people get a nice big jump in their well-being and their experience in their bodies. And so I

Fascia is forming a continuous matrix or a network or a web. You can kind of use those words as synonyms. And fascia and connective tissue for today, it'll be a synonym for us. There's some designation there. But sometimes it's hard to put your finger on the nose, finger on the button when it comes to fascia because it is amorphous. And it is...

It's differentiating based on location and need of function in the body. So even though it's one continuous web, it's one continuous piece of fabric, it's changing shape, texture, and functionality based on what's needed of it and where it is. Wow. For instance...

Like if we imagined the IT band, the fascia of the IT band, it's very structural. So it's meant to create stiffness and it's helping us stay upright. What's that tape, that strapping tape that's kind of see-through and it has the fibers running through it? Oh, like the kinesthesiology tape? No, like packing tape. Oh, packing tape. Just kidding. Plastic packing tape. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That has like the white fibers running through it. Yeah. That's great.

Kind of what the IT band looks like. And then some people are like, fascia looks like saran wrap. They're also correct. That would be the membranous fascia that wraps the lungs or wraps our organs or creates different containers in the body. And then we have the spindly spider web-like fascia, which...

which would be supporting and creating organization for, let's say, we had a lymphatic capillary and a cardiac capillary. These are the tiniest vessels in the body. Those two guys need to be in coherence because they're working together to clean our blood and to make sure the lymph system is working. But there needs to be organization and support for those. So we have little spindles of fascia that look like a spider web connecting those vessels. Wow.

And then what else do we have? We have the myofascia. The myofascia creates the internal scaffolding for the muscle. Myofascia means muscle and fascia mix. And without the fascia forming the structure of the muscle, you just have a blob of red blood cells.

Um, what other kinds of, I mean, it's fast. I just like, how could you deny like the, the existence of something greater than that's when you have fascia. Do you know what I mean? Right. It's pretty phenomenal. Does it also, I feel like you've told me this, like in terms of how it holds memory, like what is, is that true? Is that like, yes. Um, I mean, it's,

That is a really interesting topic. And just as much as the fascia forms us, we form it. The fascia is highly adaptive. It does have this organizing principle and adaptive quality. So it is interpreting and reacting, remodeling and reorganizing based on external and internal stimuli. So the fascia is...

is amorphous when it comes to if it needs to protect us or if it needs if something occurs that we can't process consciously the body will sustain that memory and hold on to it for us until we're ready to process it but my friend Aaron actually explained this in a really fun way he was like fascia annotates memory just like a record embeds or encodes music so it's

similar, it's probably a similar process, but the research around that is not completely complete. So I don't want to give a very specific scientific thing, but there's a lot of hypotheses around how the fascia holds memory or annotates memory. And it could be a very

an issue of with vibration. So there could be some tonal aspect in the way that the fascia is impregnated with memory or there it might be a biochemical situation like peptides and neuroreceptors play a part in that.

and what else? A tensional memory. So an actual change in the collagen fibers. Collagen is mainly what makes up fascia. Okay. A change in the actual fiber structure that impregnates the memory. So I've heard there's a paper proving that this is the case, that the fascia holds emotion, memory, and trauma. It's

I don't like connected to our consciousness or I'm getting a little spiritual here, but like, yes, it kind of sounds like that where it's very connected to our own consciousness, if not definitely connected. I think it's definitely connected because you've worked on hundreds of people. I can only imagine like the type of releases that have happened, you know, like, yes,

So clinically speaking, even though if we can't exactly prove it with research, clinically speaking, body workers, people who are working with the fascia or the body in general are seeing this happen all the time. There's definitely one occurrence. I mean, so many times, like you said, I've experienced folks supporting them as we're changing their fascia. They have a memory or they have an emotional release.

They have a flashback. And one particular one that comes to mind, I was working along someone's kidney channel. And we can talk about later the organizational aspect of the fascial chains and how they might be associated with the Eastern Medicine Meridian Roadmap. So I was working along the kidney line and I was sensing, I was like, huh, something

this is irregular tissue. I wonder what's going on. And then I read into the person. I'm like, is she okay if I ask her, like, what's going on here? And I was like, okay, I think, you know, we knew each other quite well, client and practitioner. And I was like, so have you ever had an experience of a life-threatening fear? And in Chinese medicine, fear and something life-threatening is associated, like a

You know, we think of the adrenals. The adrenals are linked to the kidneys, fight or flight. And I just got a ping. I was like something about a life-threatening fear. And so I asked her that and she was like, actually, I almost drowned when I was seven years old.

And so, yes, the tissue does play a role in protecting us and supporting us and helping us get through situations that occur in our life. And I think some people are like, oh, my gosh.

God, I have trauma in my fascia. Well, one, we're not just annotating the trauma in our bodies, but we're also annotating all the happy things. So the fascia is like a map for our life story. So it's not all tricky stuff. But then also the fascia is to be celebrated in the fact that it can adapt and help us instead of like, oh, I have this scar tissue here. I need to fix myself. Right. So...

Lots of fabulous things about fascia, but some of the functions that it performs for us besides protecting, we already said connects everything. So it's the great connector. It's also creating some separation in the body. So even though once again, it's one continuous piece of fabric, it folds on itself to create different compartments and to help us organize. For instance,

When our lung cells are specializing, when we're forming an embryo, the lung cells are like, I'm going to be a lung cell. And then the liver cells are like, I'm going to be a liver cell. And we want to maintain that separation so that the cells...

maintain their organizational harmony. And we don't want something like the upper respiratory mixing, the metabolite of the upper respiratory mixing with the upper digestion. We don't want the digestive tract mixing with the elimination. And so the fascia is creating these compartments for us. Wow.

So it's not only connecting, but it's also creating organizational separation. Very important when Dan Kion, who is an MD acupuncturist, he's a Western medicine doctor and a PhD acupuncturist in his book, Spark in the Machine.

He talks a little bit about cancer and how his perspective is when the cancer starts to cross fascial barriers, that's when it gets a little bit dangerous. Right.

Or if someone has a bladder cancer, the doctors are really watching them for brain cancer because there's an actual fascial pathway where the cancer can travel upon and get up to the brain. So yeah, the fascial compartments are really important for maintaining overall harmony and organization. And when we become disorganized, this is from Dan Keown again, disorganized, dis-ease, disorganized

disease.

And so here's my favorite part of the fascia being the matrix in which it's conducting electricity or intelligent electricity, coherent energy. If I was an engineer, I could measure that current running through the fascia as a DC current. But if I was an acupuncturist, I might be like, that's chi. That's life force.

That's coherent energy. So between the fascia, going back to what you mentioned, the fascia having a physical organizational property, and then we have this inherent intelligent energy, electricity. Between the two, it's like the threshold of the physical and the energetic or the threshold of the physical and the spiritual. And so if fascia is conducting our life force...

We want that to flow as efficiently as possible. But because of life, because it's really good at adapting, because things happen, we get in an accident, we have a trauma, we aren't moving enough, we're moving too much, we're doing repetitive motion, the fascia can morph and change, perhaps get a little densified, thickened, kinked up, naughty, adhesed, dry, plasticky.

But we have tools in which to help us nudge the fascia back to its more homeostatic state. And I actually don't love that word, but we kind of know what that means. But allostatic is a new word I just learned a year or so ago, which means a dynamic equilibrium or evolving equilibrium because the body is always changing every second to second. Right. Right.

Okay. Yeah. That's a lot. We just did a lot. No, that was a really good one-on-one because I feel like people hear fascia, they're like, I think it's, I know it's important, but I'm not really sure what it actually does in my body. And clearly there's just so many layers to its importance. So many. So I guess what are people experiencing if their fascia is, um,

Right.

Right. Well, fascia is our greatest sensory organ. And I'm not eligible to weigh in here, but I think the fascia should be considered a body-wide organ. I was going to say, I was like, isn't it? But I guess it's not. I mean, officially it's not. But there's a camp of anatomists called the integral anatomists. They're looking at the body through the lens of the fascia and perceiving it as whole and interested in how the fascia links everything.

and how that plays a role and how the parts work based on the whole versus our more classical anatomy. The heritage of our classical anatomy is investigating the parts and everything's kind of separate. We want to know how the heart works. We want to know how the nerves work, but it's not always look. They kind of bypass the fabric that creates continuity in the body.

And so fascia perhaps should be considered a body-wide organ, like the nervous system might be perceived as a body-wide organ. The fascia is our greatest sensory organ. It's highly proprioceptive. It's innervated, meaning there's nerves there giving feedback to the brain. But beyond that, it's also conducting, like I mentioned, current activity.

So those currents, those frequencies are actually moving through the tissue faster than the speed of light or just as fast as the speed of light, but faster than the nervous system. So if you bump your toe, that signal has to go up to the brain and then the brain sends it back down and we go, ow, okay.

But the fascia is already morphing and adapting to that little toe jam and sending signals and messages to the rest of the tissues surrounding and also globally, so locally and globally. So what could be happening if our fascia, you know, it's so...

so personal and people come to me with chronic diseases. People come to me with a rotator cuff issue and I work on their shoulder for 45 minutes and then it's like, okay, you got it. And some people might be experiencing dehydration or, um,

Because the fascia is so involved in our physiology, it's also impactful for our organ system. So anything from digestion to immune issues, like I mentioned before, endocrinal issues, hormonal issues, etc.

You know, we tend to think of the fascia as more of a structural component, which absolutely is true. It's so foundational to our structure, like I mentioned before, that if we took a pig heart and we took all the red blood cells off, what would be left is a skeletal fascial bone.

It would be like a ghost-like version of the heart. And they're actually, researchers are using pig hearts that have been decellularized and then adding human stem cells. And they're working on this for tissue donation and organ donation. So you don't have to rely on someone passing away and donating an organ. So this is amazing.

So amazing that they could figure that out. But what they can't figure out is how to make that fascial skeleton. And going back to what you said, this is the organizational or inherent intelligence that our bodies are self-forming, self-organizing. The fascia forming, helping us self-organizing perhaps is the...

divine, majestic, the part that science can't figure out, which is cool. Like we can study the universe. We might be able to figure out a lot of things. But if we can fully understand the universe, is it still the universe? Is the Tao still the Tao if we can explain it? I don't remember what we were talking about. No, that covered. I feel like we were talking about the symptoms and just kind of what people can be experiencing. Right.

How do we keep our fascia healthy? Different things we can do to support our fascial health. Of course, drinking lots of water. There are certain things we can eat like collagen, eating a lot of warm, nourishing things, clean, healthy diet. How are you eating your collagen? I'm going to get into the nitty gritty because people want to know. How are you eating your collagen? Well, definitely with bone broth and slow cooked stews.

The easiest way to absorb, right? But then also I have this collagen from Germany. I was listening to the Huberman podcast. I can't remember this doctor who suggested this particular collagen for women. And I was like, I'm going to try that. So I'm adding that to a warm turmeric drink in the morning. Okay, great. Delightful. But the way –

I take care of my fascia is through something called fascia flossing. Yeah. And this is the technique that you know and that I've done the work on you and you've experienced doing the practice yourself. Fascia flossing springs from...

How animals move their body. You know how animals kind of yank on the floor and they're like, yes, they're like in downward dog cats. Like we see the cats, the dogs, just how they kind of move about. Exactly. They're adding something a little special to their movement, which they're adding a bit of resistance or engagement to.

This process is called pendiculation, and we actually do it when we yawn. We kind of contract, and then we go into that little bit of stretch phase. That's called pendiculating. All it means is to contract as you elongate. So maintaining an engagement as you go into a movement, a twist, a turn, or an elongation phase. So we take that concept, and we borrow it, and we practice.

use it on the body in an organized fashion. But it works by creating almost like an internal exfoliation of the tissues. And the YouTube team, I'm going to use my hands right now. So good time to watch on YouTube. If you're in auditory land, I'm going to do my best to help you out.

So when we engage and go into elongation phase, let's say we have myofascia. Remember, that's the muscle and the fascia combined. Our tissues are meant to glide and slide on themselves. So the fibers can easily contract. They can twist. They can turn. They can elongate. They can perform all the things that they need to perform, hopefully freely and with comfort. Wow.

When fascia gets a little too dense or hardened or dry, brittle, etc., it can act as a tourniquet or prevent the fibers from gliding and sliding on themselves. So now I have my fingers are interlaced and they can't really move and groove.

But if we – and what also could be true is that they might be a little disorganized, adhesed, knotty, as we mentioned before. So let's say we have some thickened and knotty tissue. So we're going to add engagement. That's part of the special sauce of pendiculation we're going to engage. Okay.

And then we're going to maintain, that's the key, maintain the engagement as we go into elongation phase. And two things can happen. One, we start to reorganize the fibers so that they're less knotty. And two, any dry, brittle fibers might break off, go into the bloodstream, and then get eliminated out of the body. Poop, pee, sweat, or cry cleaned out by the lymphatic system.

So that's really exciting because we can actually create an architectural change in our tissues. Yeah. And this can be done on your own. This can be done on your own. Like it doesn't need to be done by someone. Absolutely not. Can we talk about like some, okay, so some specific like common fascial ailments that us modern day people are experiencing. So we're on our phones, we're at desks.

maybe we're up with our kids at night, holding our kids. And your shoulders are tied. Last night I was in a position, I was like... I was like holding him, I'm like... He's just like... Oh my God. I'm feeling it today. But some common modern ailments and maybe some easy fascial maneuvers we could do. Yes. Okay, so watch on YouTube. Okay. Yeah. So we might be...

Someone who sits at a computer. And what the fascia will do is morph and support you to maintain that position in the most efficient way possible. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. So that's how adaptive it is once again. But over time, we don't really want the fascia to be molding like that because it perhaps will cause some density or disorganization or compensation, etc.,

So we can use fascial flossing to help us reinvigorate the tissues, make them more hydrated, pliable, functional, performing all the movements that we want to make comfortably. And when you fascial floss, even if you do have to sit in that position for hours, you're going to be able to do it more comfortably because when we decrease the density or the dry plasticky fibers, we're increasing what?

circulation like if you think of the garden hose being kinked up or like there's a pile of cement on top of the garden hose that water is not going to flow so well so when we floss we actually are increasing circulation which provides us three main things that we need to feel good oxygen

nutrient delivery and waste removal. So changing our fascial matrix actually improves that circulation, which then provides those three main things that we need to feel fabulous. So if you're someone who sits at the computer a lot, you might have some dense fascia along the backside of your body.

So we want to do some hamstring flosses. And I'm particularly partial to that. If you're a mom that's breastfeeding, we might have a little bit of extra tenseness in the chest and the pec. Or perhaps our upper shoulders are getting a little tight. Or those are areas, I think, kind of the main things, like the upper traps, necks, the neck, down into the middle back.

down into the glutes and into the hamstrings, the IT bands. Those are kind of like the main zones where our fascia was, our exoskeleton as we were evolving. Yeah.

And so we have more dense and thick fascia on the back and sides of our body. In Chinese medicine, that would be your yang meridian areas. And it's meant to be like that, but we don't want it to get hyper dense. We also don't want our tissues to get hyper mobile. True flexibility is important.

the meat of the tissue being gushy, hydrated, pliable, like I said. Hypermobility is usually an occurrence at the joint structure where our smaller connective tissues are

are getting overstretched to the point where they're acting like an old rubber band. And when that happens, this is definitely something I see all the time. I'm personally hypermobile too, so I get it out there if you're hypermobile. A lot of hypermobile people come to me and they're looking to balance out their tissues because if our joints are unstable, the surrounding tissue, so let's say my hip is a little bit too mobile. Yeah.

the tissue in my quad, the tissue in my hamstring and my glute, that's going to start to harden, become more fibrotic to create stability for the overly loose joint. So the body's always trying to find that balance. It's trying to find harmony. But what we can do for hypermobile is we start to

reconfigure the fascial fibers in the surrounding areas to your joints and we can actually create some more suspensatory qualities versus you know having very loose joints but then very hard tissue nearby right

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What I want to say about that is that we do need a certain amount of stiffness. We want to have structural integrity. So when we're doing fascia flossing, I very much emphasize don't go past a range that is amicable to your body. We don't want to overstretch our tissues because what happens is that we micro tear when we overstretch. And this is our stretching core.

culture that we've inherited is we want to go to the farthest range and then go a little bit further. But oftentimes that destabilizes our joints and can cause micro tears. And when we micro tear, we go to bed at night.

And our body has to repair. There's these cells called the fibroblasts. Some of us have heard that word. The fibroblasts are who take care of the fascia. So we micro tear in our tissues and our myofascial, let's say. And the fibroblasts are laying down a new layer of collagen in the night. And over time, if we overstretch repetitively, over time, we're getting thicker and thicker and thicker in that area that we tend to overstretch.

And it's tricky because like I used to go to hot yoga. I love to overstretch. It's very seductive because you're like, what would they say in hot yoga? Would you go to like the old school Bikram back in the day? Like farther, more, go. Go.

Come on. You can do it. PTSD. Like, oh, God. Wow. But you're really sweaty and warm. And so you can get into these ranges that maybe you shouldn't be in the first place. I'm not downing hot yoga. I actually, like, love it. So, like, come on. It feels so good. But something that Bob taught me, and I really, like, needed to hear this, and it honestly, I was so resistant, took me forever to accept it, that when we overstretch, we're

We're releasing analgesic hormones, so natural painkillers. We're releasing endorphins. So when we go to that end range and then we feel our edge and the body is like, that's actually your nervous system being like, basta, that's far enough. But we get all these great hormones. We get this flush of feeling good. So it's kind of like a cycle of feeling fabulous right after you overstretch and

And then because the body needs to repair, you get stiff again. So then you feel like, oh, I got to keep going. And that was me on the sidelines being in the ballet company in rehearsal, always stretching my hamstrings, always being the good girl taking care of my body. But little did I know, and I did not understand why, my hamstrings always felt cold, dense,

And even unconscious in that area. I kind of think that when the fascia gets dense in certain areas, we lose a kind of consciousness. Wow. And that's not proven. It's just my opinion. But yeah, so overstretching can be something that we might want to look at for ourselves. What do you think about this? This is so random. So excuse me. Let's go. What do you think about like...

Like little girl dance competition things where their legs are over here and like they're stretching on the wall and like, what do you think? Is that okay? Yeah.

I mean, for the one person that this pertains to, LOL, Lindsay. This is my brain. Well, I kind of feel like I wasn't hypermobile and that might be like an epigenetic release because I was that kid in ballet class when I was 12 and my teacher and my partner were pushing my leg behind my head.

And I probably wouldn't have been hypermobile except for that. But there's other like things about being hypermobile. It's not great. So really, it's I I struggle with like if I had a baby girl, if I had put her in dance or not because of that. But I really do think like.

maintaining safe ranges. So those of us that do love the end of the range and like to do the splits and that kind of thing and aren't very willing to give it up, I'll tell you one thing on the other side of that is that you get to feel a lot better.

Like once I stopped doing it, I was like, oh, I actually feel comfortable, stable, strong, still pliable, have a lot of motility, but not like flippity floppity, like can't sustain myself. Awesome. Yeah. Okay. Thanks for that. But we love you competition dancers. Well, anytime I see that, I'm like, oh my God, is that okay? Yeah.

Well, it kind of speaks to our culture and how we see how we think bodies, what bodies should do. Like everyone comes to me like, can you help me do the splits? I'm like, no. Yeah. I mean, kind of I will because I'll help you with your mobility in general. But like I'm not going to say the splits are a good idea. Totally. Not the goal. Hip replacement. Oh, I know. Yeah.

I would love to kind of round out the convo with something that's super, I feel like, topical and trendy right now. And that is the skin on our face and the fascia in our face. I feel like I'm having conversations both publicly and privately about kind of this post-fascist

uh Botox slash neurotoxin era of my life and you've never dipped in I did not I mean yo Bon is a legend okay I'm just a freaky Virgo rising I just know

Yeah, I mean, if we could break down your everyday routine, what you're eating, what you're doing, it would be so fascinating for people. But I think I want to focus on skin right now because it is topical. Yeah. And you also teach about this. So bring me into your practice when it comes to fascia on your face, in the structure of your face. For sure. And how we can...

maybe age more gracefully without a neurotoxin. Yes. I mean, wow, it's tough out there, right? It is. You're having this conversation all the time. Someone who has not participated in the neurotoxin thing. I feel like I'm running to catch up with people because I started listening to your podcast at almost 30. Now we're almost 40. It's like, oh, mama, shit. I know. But what do you mean by catch up?

I just mean like people aren't having any smile lines. And like I'm here being like, I smile and this is what I got. But it's such a beautiful thing and I'm really excited for it to become more normalized. Totally. And here we are. We don't see it like on TV, film, online, very rare. So when we do, we're like,

Yes. What is that? Totally. You know what I mean? Totally. And then we see it in ourselves in the mirror. We're like, oh, shoot. Like no one has that yet. I know, right? But then it's like, okay, can I celebrate my lines that really are from smiling, from being happy, and from living a joyous life. Yes. And the sun. Like, okay, I was in the sun. What can I do? I'm from California. Yeah. But I think something when it comes,

to consider with the face skin structure and the fascial health of the face is that once again everything's connected. So we think of perhaps having dense fascia in the shoulders and how that might tug on our head.

And the line of fascia running through the quads is associated with the jaw. So as I started to change my fascia, not only did my posture change, I had a really nice organic posture, didn't have to hold myself there anymore. My face structure started to change too. Like I had a really narrow face.

And then when I went to the studio in Boston to study with Bob, he ordered the Boyd trainers to do 200 quad flosses on me every single day. And my face started to go like this, boom, boom, boom, boom, a little wider, a little wider, a little wider. Like I have a narrow face, but it was more narrow. Wow. And that really helped my TMJ. Wow.

Also, I have kind of a deflated sinus on this side. Changing my fascial structure really helps create more space in that sinus suddenly did not have sinus infections anymore because the actual structural component, that plus the physiological upgrade, like just the immune system working better. But if we think of these specific lines of fascia,

gently yanking. So even though the quads seem far away from the jaw, because it's all connected and fascia exists on a tensional compressional tensegrity structure, you don't need to know what that is. But essentially if the quads are really thick,

or dense with fascia, it could be tugging on the face all the way down from there. And then if you think of it, we have a lot of tension in our chest or in our shoulders, like I said, in our neck. That's more a local issue, but it's just as much a global issue as it is a local issue, the health of the fascia in the face.

So I do some gua sha. Okay. We do some fascia flossing for the face. Can we do one right now? Yes. Okay. So very simple. And actually I'm teaching a workshop on it tonight. So this is good practice for me. What time's the workshop? At six. I know you have your mommy. Six.

But I'll send you the recording. Mine's five to six, but then the nanny leaves. Maybe I can just have it. Can I have it on without my video? Oh, hell yeah. Okay. Yeah, girl. Be on. Okay. So remember with flossing, we want to engage and then go into a little bit of a tensile tug, a little bit of a tugging. So if my hand – everybody have clean hands if you're trying this. I'm going to engage my lips a little forward. Uh-huh.

And then let's pretend we have a little oil on our face. Okay. As the lips go forward, we're going to just slide the hands back. Uh-huh. So simple. And then we're going to do that a couple times. So it's a little drag. We don't want to drag our skin right now since we don't have oil on. So you want a nice little slip. Lips go forward, hands go back. Okay. So simple. So simple. And that's good for, what did you say? Smile lines. Smile lines, exactly. Chin. I have one that's deeper than the other. To the side. Because I sleep on this side sometimes. I know.

I think I just smile a little bit over to the side. I think I do too. I talk to one side. Definitely. Anyway, I love myself. Yes, we love ourselves. So yeah, we can do that. And then even with the Gua Sha tool, you can make it a little bit flossy. So if I'm pulling back with my Gua Sha this way towards my right ear, I'm like, what side is that?

And then I'm going to pull my lips over to the left. Okay. So it makes just engaging the tissue and then creating that little tug is the key to reconfiguring the fascial fibers. It's that little secret sauce. So although we love the classical version of Gua Sha, definitely do that. We're getting huge, nice fluid changes. We're getting tensional release.

But if we want to work the fascia in particular, then we can make a little engagement happen for ourselves and then add the massage that we're doing. But yeah, I do a little face taping at night, mostly for these guys. These are my culprits. Mm-hmm.

And then we're doing a lot of lymphatic drainage for the head and the face. That's my favorite like shower ritual. I'll do like lymphatic massage in those spots and then I'll actually cup in the shower a couple days a week. Smart.

Love that. Because I'll do it. I'll put oil on. Yes. Like to have a slick. Yeah. But I don't know. Being in the shower, I'm just like in my zone. I don't know. It's just I can be messy. And also that's your special non-mom time. I know. Oh, God.

Okay, that's super helpful. What about common tension in the forehead? Forehead. What's that connected to? Oh, yeah, bladder channel, so hamstrings once again. Wow. Imagine having really densified hamstrings. Those are running up. Well, really, we run down. But anyways, all connected through the back,

through the neck, up and over the head to the inner corner of your eyebrow. So we could do some hamstring work if we had some tension in our forehead. We could do some outer hip work if we had some compression on the sides of the head if we're getting headaches in particular. Or that also helps at the occiputs.

put right at where the skull meets the neck. And then if we have some stuff that we want to do around the cheekbones, a little lift around the outer eye, we're going to work our upper shoulder and rotator cuff, infraspinatus and supraspinatus, if you're an anatomy nerd out there, the fascial tract that runs up the side of the neck and into the cheek area. Okay.

So, yeah, there's a lot of pathways, a lot of tools that we can use to support our face. And then, of course, when you're changing your fascia, you get that physiological upgrade. The skin just is more plump, more hydrated. We're getting more cellular turnover, all the good stuff that we want to keep going.

Aging with grace and love for ourselves. Yeah. Well, you are a testament. Your skin is amazing. Thank you. And you too. Thank you. Do we want to do one hamstring floss? Yes. Okay. Because this is really important for how the pelvis sets up. Okay. The pelvis determines how the spine sets up. And if you want that kind of natural organic posture, this will also be good for if you're sitting a lot. Yeah. Can I get down on the floor? Will they see me? Yep.

Can you see me still if I get down here? Yep. We can see you. I'm looking at it. I'm coming right for you, Lance. I'm a little...

animal today. So we're going to have one leg forward. This is going to be a shorter lunge. If you have two water bottles or like two blocks at home, we want to set that up like that. And here comes the special part of flossing, which is to engage. So my engagement thing is going to be my heel kicking down. That's going to light up my hammy and all the tissue in the back of my leg and this whole chain of fascia coming off to my inner corner of my eyebrow, like we just said. So I'm going to kick back. I'm going to maintain the engagement. This is key.

keep maintaining the engagement and go into a safe range yeah so this is enough for me it looks like i'm not going very far and that's all we need to reconfigure these special fibers and make them more hydrated pliable and functional so i'm going to kick my heel back flexing the foot you can flex your foot you can leave it down i'm just in my boots so i don't know i'm kicking right back with my heel kind of okay i'm doing this yeah i'm doing kind of like you're a what animal

You're a bull. I'm a bull right now. Or have one of those horses. We're getting weird. Okay. Or one of those horses that kick their heels. Okay, so I'm going to slide back while I maintain the engagement, and then I'm going to relax, come forward. This is an eccentric contraction if you're someone who knows.

That languaging so i'm taking back and we also want to pull it out so i'm not going to hold up the end of the range, because I don't want to the fashion to mold in that specific way they don't want to micro tear Okay, so the pulsing actually creates this nice.

cardiovascular and lymphatic change too. So we're getting heat. The body likes to be warm as the fascia is changing. And we're getting lymph change. Yeah. Amazing. So lots of good stuff there. Here we go. But yeah, that is a little hamstring floss that everybody can try at home. Five minutes a day will do the trick. It

If you do 30 seconds, better than zero. Yeah. But five will help a lot. And then a lot of people ask me, how many times should I fascia floss a day? You could do like a 20 to 40 minute set with me on video online. Yeah. Instruction's kind of where it's at. Yeah. Just because...

Are you going to do 20 to 40 minutes on your own? Some people are very disciplined. Maybe some of my trainees do that, but 20 to 40 minutes once or twice, or let's say twice a week, and then a five-minute to a 20-minute set two or three other days of the week. So it doesn't take a lot to really start dynamically changing your tissue. Great. And you can do this while you're watching TV, while you're—

I mean, I don't know if readings, I think, but maybe an audio book in the background or whatever. Absolutely. And it matches up very well with your other exercise practices. So if you're a runner, you can do it before to prep for your run and get a better result. Or you could do it after for recovery. Same with dancers, cyclists, etc.,

Or it can be your total body workout. So you can do a full practice and you feel like you've had a massage and a workout all in one. And you know, it feels so good. You just feel so energized and fabulous and open and ready to rumble for your day.

Once you start doing things consistently like this and you feel what it feels like to feel good, then that's the motivator. It's like, I know what it feels like. I'm going to do the thing that gets me there. Yeah. Comes that habit. Yeah. And you really have to experience it. A lot of people are like, oh, this is just like yoga. I'm like, yeah, but no. Yeah. And like, oh, is it like resistance bands? And I'm like, no.

It's totally different. Totally different. Yeah. It's really... And you're really changing the tissue from the depths of the bone. Like, from the very center of the body, the most internal aspect of you, radiating out to the superficial. Unlike other fascial practices...

All great, not dissing anything. But if we're using an external force, we're really working on the superficial aspects of the fascia. But when we change the deep fascia, it actually influences the superficial. And then we might also get some sculpting, some texture changes. But I just want to PSA really quick that cellulite is really adipose tissue. Yes.

And adipose tissue, a.k.a. superficial fascia, is all over our bodies and meant to be. Just not on our nose, our eyes, our ears, or our genitals. But otherwise, adipose tissue is everywhere. And women in particular are supposed to have more. And it's actually...

Our organ of sensation, it acts as a radio antenna. So retrieving frequency from the outside world and processing it, as well as propagating our energy outward, electromagnetic fields outward. So interesting. It works as a storehouse for extra nutrients. Say if we are going to make a bebe, we need those extra nutrients.

And, you know, we've kind of been taught to hate it, but it's kind of like the face thing. It's like, can we reframe and be like, let's celebrate this tissue is a part of me. And even in my most skinny state, and I shouldn't have been that skinny as a dancer, I still could see

my adipose tissue through my skin and we're actually meant to be that way thank you so that's my little psa yeah there's something else magical about the oh it's also a hormonal organ wow very important yeah it's a very important part of us it's funny how we like get so obsessed with the aesthetic that we forget the like magical function of certain parts of our body and really

And we're kind of like always going after the body instead of perceiving it as the wondrous miracle that it is. It truly is. And I think the fascia reminds us of that because it's an expression of our wholeness, right? It's one piece.

One fabric, one piece of fabric creating this very intricate organism that's 300 to 100 trillion cells. Wow. Working in organizational orchestration. So crazy. To create this experience that we're having, this life that we're having right now, I mean...

We, yeah, if we could step back from the I need to fix myself thing and start from a place of, wow, my body is a miracle. My body is magic. Even if we're going through some very troublesome things with our body, because I don't want to diminish that. People are really having a hard time with their body in some circumstances, of course. Yeah.

But if we step out of the I need to fix this mentality and start from my body is always doing its best. It's always trying to self-organize, adapt, self-heal, trying to be as most vibrant as possible. Then we're starting from a different place, I think. We'll end there. That was beautiful. Yeah, it's such a good reminder.

I love you. I love you. You're so you're so intelligent. You're so I just feel like you're kind of a head always, whether it's, you know, pertaining to health, skin, the body, just connecting to kind of the spirituality, the energetics of the body, too. I just yeah.

I'm happy and honored to know you and I love you. I love you so much. This is really amazing. You're doing such good work and getting all this very important information out into the world. So bless you and how you've really democratized wellness from the very beginning, like made it accessible to people. So thank you. Thanks for having me today. You're welcome. What a pleasure. Thank you all for listening. As always, make sure you watch this on YouTube too because we did some visual stuff.

Some hands talking. It was awesome. And all information about Bonnie's work is in the show notes for you. Truly, her as a teacher is one of my favorite things. We're fun. We're fun. One of my favorite things. We keep it fun. All right, y'all. We'll see you on the next one. Thank you. Bye.

Thank you, Bonnie. Thank you for joining me on Almost 30. We love you. Go to thefloss.com to learn more about her programs, membership, and the live classes she's doing in New York. Thank you all so much for supporting Almost 30 throughout the years. You can go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, Spotify and follow us, YouTube and subscribe. It means the world. Yeah, we love you guys. We'll see you on the next one. Bye.

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