757. The Best of Mel Robbins: BEAT Anxiety + Bring Your Desires To Life
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Hello and welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. My name is Krista Williams. And I'm Lindsay Simsek. We're so happy you're here. Welcome to our world. Welcome to our world. We're Almost 30. We have been doing this podcast since 2016.

Before podcasting was cool, before everyone and their mother had a podcast, we had a podcast on our closet floors. It was a dumpster fire. We had no idea what we were doing. Absolutely none. Absolutely none. I saw someone the other day who saw us give a podcast lecture workshop at an event conference type hippie thing in Santa Barbara. You know that. You probably remember. Yeah.

We can say the name off air. But they said, they're like, yeah, I went into your podcast workshop. And I was like, dude, we had no business a year after starting a podcast. The way that I just had to run through every event and then when I landed on what event you're talking about.

the reaction in my body is so crazy. Isn't it crazy? Because there were many layers to that experience. I hate when we do this because you guys are like, fucking say it. What are you talking about? You guys won't even know, but it doesn't even matter. But what I want to say is that we were absolutely not the right

match for this event. It was in the woods. It was in cabins. It was for photographers and we were podcast hosts. And I think we pitched ourselves and like made up tons of stuff to give to them for us to talk at. Did we get paid? No, we like...

Oh my God. I can't. This is so embarrassing. Yeah. There were many layers. However, there were some pretty cool baller people there giving like, I think name, name two of them. I think baller people at the time, zero baller people.

Zero. It was embarrassing. We wanted so bad to be speakers that we were like, we will do all of these things so that we could take time out of our schedule to talk to your audience about podcasting. It's embarrassing. I know, dude. I wonder what we said. We've made it far though. We've made it far and we are here now many years later with an amazing community of...

mostly women all over the world that are spiritually curious, that are interested in living really good, full, enriching lives. We started the show when we were struggling in our late 20s and now feel really, really good about who we are in our lives. And actually everything we learned in the process of our late 20s

Um, we put on a book almost 30, which is now available for pre-order. We have it out in June of this year. We have amazing incentives, like a 70 page Saturn return guide. And if you don't know already the period between your twenties and your thirties and your late twenties is called your Saturn return.

From an astrological perspective, it is that time when Saturn returns to the natal portion of your chart to teach you the lessons that you need to know. And we also have a ticket to camp. So Almost 30 Camp is a free online virtual event with the purchase of the book.

And you can attend to hear some of the best speakers, healers, and teachers in the business live for one day in May. And then if you get two copies of the book, you get both of those things. And then a mini masterclass with Krista and I. We really wanted to like ground y'all in just this experience of your Saturn return. Or if you're not going through your Saturn return, I'm sure you're going through some sort of season of change or transformation.

So we wanted to walk you through some of our experience, our lessons, learnings, and then pulling in aspects of the book. Um, we thought would be a great way to just kind of do a little book club, mini masterclass moment. So thank you so much for pre pre-ordering the book. It's

It's kind of hard to explain why it's important to pre-order, but simply said, it just kind of sends signals out to booksellers and different platforms that people want this book. And our goal is to just get this in as many hands as possible, people who are going through times of change, because if we had this during that time, we would have gotten it sooner. Yeah.

Honestly, you know what I mean? So I wouldn't have struggled so much mentally, honestly. Yeah, it was, it was so trying. Thankfully we had each other. Thankfully we had our therapist, but it was a time. So if you're going through it, we see you, we hear you. And this is going to be your back pocket best friend during this time. I think creators are fun too, because it's like a little gift. Yeah. When it comes, you're like, oh yeah, I did that thing that day. And now I have this amazing gift that I received for myself in the mail. Yeah.

And in the book, we have this section called Pass the Mic. And the Pass the Mic is the quotes that we've had from past podcast guests. So we have amazing people like Jay Shetty, Bethany Webster. We have Mel Robbins, who is...

on our show today. And we thought to celebrate the book coming out and to celebrate Mel's appearances on Almost 30, we would do a best of Mel Robbins. She's incredible. She's one of our favorites, the best speaker, podcast host, friend, person in life. And so in this episode, we compilate our favorite quotes and sections of Mel Robbins on Almost 30 to celebrate the book Almost 30. Yeah. And to celebrate her book, The Lesson Theory, I'll plug that because it's such a, it's,

It's a prolific book. It's reached millions. I feel like, you know, everyone's talking about it. And it's such a simple concept that I think everyone can use a little bit of in their relationships. And that concept is just allowing the people in your life, allowing the situations, allowing these experiences to be what they are and really allowing

Not taking them as personal, not taking them on as something that you need to fix or you need to control. And yeah, it's been something I'm thinking about a lot, I think, just in the context of my life right now, where it's like, where are those like ways I'm kind of wanting to change someone or change a situation that...

is really not my business to change it up. The surrender, just these principles that are ultimate surrender, just like someone's going to do what they're going to do. You got to just let them it's surrender. It's letting go of codependency. It's just, it's powerful. So yeah, her book, let them

Theory is out now. So congrats to Mel. We have in the show notes, the episodes in full from Mel's appearances on Almost 30. And again, we have her featured in the past, the mic, which is the sections of our book that have quotes from some of the amazing guests we've had over the 750 plus episodes from starting in 2016 on our show.

So many. I know, so many. So we're excited for you guys to listen. Send this to a friend who loves Mel. Send this to someone who needs the inspiration, the insight today. That's how Almost 30 has grown. That's why we have such a thriving community is because of people like you. We love you. Thank you for the support. Go to almost30.com slash book and we will see you on the other side. I'm sure you've heard people talk about how nutritious organs are, but you're like, ugh.

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colon slash slash there. So HTTP colon slash slash G-A-L-A-T-E-A dot com slash almost 30. When you wake up in the morning and you think about the day ahead, do you want to high five it or do you want to pull the covers back over your head?

We are designed as human beings, and you talk a lot about this in your work on this show, to be energetically aligned with what is meant for us.

And the best directional signal on the planet, if you feel lost, is to pay attention to the aspects of your life, the people in your life, the things that you're doing and that you're spending time on that make you feel energized. And energized is nothing more than feeling expansive, feeling full of possibility. You could be scared shitless that you're about to do it. Mm-hmm.

But there's something about the person that you're with or the thing that you're doing that feels like growth. When you are in a relationship or in a job or living in an apartment or in a friend group or pursuing a type of work that makes you feel like you're shrinking,

or that makes you feel suffocated, or that makes you feel depleted, that is not your natural energy state. And so your energy and the negative mental state and the depleted feeling that you feel, that's not how you're wired to live. And your physical being is screaming at you to get the fuck out of that job or that relationship to wake up and to make

change happen. And so I, and that doesn't mean by the way that every day is great. It just means that it feels like you can be you. And

And that means everything that you are and everything that you're not. Pursuing the friend group or the romantic relationship or the eating kind of style that you want. Like if it doesn't feel right, it's not right. And I think so many of us have like lost touch with the feeling. Yes. People are like, what is the feeling? And then...

the self-doubt starts to creep in and the judgment and the, well, they probably know better than I do that outsourcing of our intuition. Like how do you...

How do you have people like practice that? Okay. Thank you for opening the door. I'm going to walk right in. We're going to talk about this cheesy ass thing. I love it. I invented during a crazy low moment in my life and I call it the high five habit and the high five habit. It begins with one habit, but it is a series of small things that you can do every single day to locate your power and

back within yourself. Because you're right, we have outsourced our self-worth.

We look outside of ourself for validation. We look at the number on the scale, the amount of money in the bank, the car that we drive, the person that we're dating, the friend group that we have, the amount of likes, the amount of views. All of that external shit is never going to make you feel worthy. The only person that can build your self-worth is you. There's a reason why that word begins with self. It begins within yourself.

And so I'm going to tell you the story about how I stumbled upon this thing. And my brand of personal development, improving your life, falls into a particular category. First, I have to fuck up my life. Then I have to save myself. Then I stumble upon something that sounds ridiculously stupid on its face. And when it starts to work, and I'm dumbfounded by how this dumb thing is actually working, I then start to unpack the

the research. And so whether we're talking about something I created over a decade ago called the five second rule, or we're talking about the high five habit, brace yourself. Because when you first hear this, you're going to think this is the corniest thing I have ever heard. Now I'm going to just say something that might sound obnoxious.

I make millions of dollars. I am wildly successful. I have been married for 25 years. I have three kids who are awesome and irritating. I have lived with anxiety for 25 years. I've healed and continue to work on healing my trauma. And I will stand firm in telling you the high five habit is the single most powerful thing I've ever discovered.

So here's what happened. About a year ago, I found myself in a moment where I felt like life was punching me in the face. The first thing that happened is, you know, it was March and they found COVID at the CBS Broadcast Center. And at the time, I was in my dream job. I was hosting a daytime syndicated talk show with Sony Pictures Television.

We were wrapping up season one. We had like seven more episodes of the 175 that we were taping. I loved this job. And we got five minutes notice. They canceled the show.

Didn't have a chance to say goodbye to the 130 people. I'm like, what just happened? I get in my car. I'm driving back home to Boston. I'm seeing the New York City skyline disappear. The phone calls start coming in. And our daughters who were in college at the time are now freaking out because they're closing down USC and she's got to pack and get home. And like everybody remembers that moment.

When the quarantine and the pandemic shut your life down or turned it upside down or you lost somebody you love, maybe it was that you couldn't go to the nursing home to see your grandmother. Maybe you got that email from the office saying you can't come in. There was something, some moment that had happened. And so from there, once we got home, it was my husband and I and our three kids, my business went into a freefall.

Every single speech that I had for more than a year gets canceled. My publisher calls me and says, that book that you haven't delivered, we're going to cancel the contract and the advance that we've given you that you've already spent. We need it back. And what happened is I started to get really triggered because when life turns upside down, your old shit will come up. And my old shit includes just 10 years ago being nearly a million dollars in debt.

and facing that financial crisis like a lot of high-functioning adults do, which is drinking myself into the ground and blaming everything on my husband. That was the moment that I invented the five-second rule to help me get out of bed.

Because the anxiety was so profound. It was pinning me to that bed like a gravity blanket every morning. That's a whole nother story. So I'm starting to have flashbacks like, are you fucking kidding me? I have clawed my way out of that. I have become a success over the last 10 years. I've paid down all that debt. We're saving money. I'm super successful. And this shit is happening again. So I start to spiral.

I'm worried about everybody, just like everybody was. What's going to happen to my grandparents? What's happening to my parents? When am I going to see my friends again? What about the frontline workers? Like it was just a free fall. And so one morning I wake up, I make my bed, I walk into the bathroom and I see my reflection as I'm brushing my teeth. And I think, you look like hell. Mm-hmm.

You know, like the gray hair is coming in and I've got these dark circles under my eyes and my neck is all saggy and my, my jowls are looking like saddlebags on a pack mule, you know, going down the Grand Canyon. One boob is hanging lower than the other. And I've even at this point had my breast implants out. Like, I'm just like, what the

And once you have a negative thought or the self-criticism starts, it's sort of like lint in a dryer. As it starts to gather, it collects more. And so then I start thinking about the day. You start to get more creative with it. Yeah, I'm like, yes, end of the story. I'm like, oh my God, why'd I get up so late? I've got a Zoom call in eight minutes. I look like shit. I don't even have a bra on yet. The dog's at my feet and he needs to be walked. I didn't respond to their texts. Like I'm just doing the beat down. And here's the thing.

Most of us don't realize that's your morning routine. We talk a big game about have a great morning routine. But the truth is your morning routine right now either involves ignoring yourself in the mirror or criticizing. And I don't know what came over me in that moment standing there literally in my underwear.

I just felt like the weight of the world on my shoulders. I'm one of the most book motivational speakers in the world. I couldn't think of a damn thing to say to myself. Now, if either of you had walked in to my bathroom that morning, I would have been able to lift you up. I would have been able to tell you what to do. But when it came to supporting and encouraging myself, I had nothing. And for whatever reason, as pathetic and as corny as it sounds,

standing there in that very low moment. I just raised my hand and I high-fived my reflection. Now, it didn't change my life, but something inside me shifted. I felt my shoulders drop. I felt my chin lift up. I sort of silently felt myself say, it's okay. You got this. You can do this. And I left the bathroom. Now, the second morning, this is when things started to go, okay,

I got up, I made my bed, I started walking to the bathroom. And then this is what I noticed that's really weird. I started to feel excited to see myself. And it's sort of like, you know, as I was riding the elevator up here to meet you two for the first time, I felt this like enthusiasm and this excitement because I really admire you two and I love, you know, what you're doing out in the world.

I felt that same sense of like, I'm going to see a friend. Now I'm going to be 53 years old this year. I think for the first 45 years of my life, I've either criticized the woman I see in the mirror or I've ignored her. I don't ever remember looking forward to seeing myself, maybe seeing an outfit or seeing what my makeup looked like, but never actually seeing me, the human being.

And I stood there in front of the mirror and I thought about like what was going on in my life. And I thought about how I was going to show up and I raised my hand in the mirror again. Now, here's the interesting thing that you're going to notice when you start doing this. It is impossible to criticize yourself when you raise your hand and high five yourself. And there's a lot of research that explains why.

And this is the first piece of research that I'll lay on you because it's unbelievable. Basically, you and I, we've been high-fiving people our entire lives. So when you give somebody or you receive a high-five, what does it communicate to you? Yeah, I believe you. I love you. I got you. I see you. Somebody's attitude's going down and you hit them with a high-five. It's like, all right, shake it off. Get back in there. I got your back. Mm-hmm.

All of that positive programming associated with that gesture is already encoded in your basal ganglia, the subconscious part of your brain. When you raise your own hand physically,

The subconscious part of your brain recognizes the high five. It automatically turns on all that positive messaging and marries it with your own reflection. Wow. It's a field of study called neurobics. Now, I didn't make that up. It's like aerobic physical activity with neural pathway development. And neurobics, marrying an unexpected physical action with

with a change in thought is the fastest way to develop new neural pathways. So by high-fiving your reflection, you are shutting up the critic. You are interrupting all of the default programming that you've had for your entire life.

And you are leveraging the lifetime positive programming of belief, enthusiasm, support, and celebration. And that's just the fucking beginning. I just spoke to Dr. Daniel Amen, one of the world's leading experts on the brain. The dude has literally scanned 65,000 brains. He has treated Mike Tyson, Miley Cyrus, the list goes on and on and on and on and on.

So I was talking to him about this high five habit. He like geeked out in the way that scientists do. He's like, okay, Mel, let me tell you what else is going on. You want to know what else is going on? You want to know why when you start to do this as a habit, you start to feel a little jolt of energy. You want to know why your mood boosts a little bit when you can get over how weird it is. I'm like, yeah, Dr. Amen, lay it on me. So here's the thing. Like, what do you do when you cross the finish line in a race?

You raise your hands. What do you do when you see somebody? You raise your hands and say hi. What do you do when you hug somebody? You raise your hands. What do you do when you pat somebody on the back? You raise their hands. What do you do when somebody, you do the double high five. You raise your hands. When your favorite band comes out, you raise your hands. When somebody blows out the candles on a birthday, we all raise our hands. Raising your hands is remembered in your nervous system as a celebratory activity.

And so when you do it with yourself, your nervous system starts to switch off from the sympathetic fight or flight into the calmer, more celebratory, cool. Wow. Sympathetic nervous system. Or parasympathetic. Parasympathetic. And then on top of it, you get a drip of dopamine. That's why your mood boosts. Wow. That's why you feel more focused. That is why some of the science says this works. Wow.

Wow. Now, of course, I didn't know any of that. I didn't know any of that at all when I first started to use it. And, you know, I just used it in secret for the first couple of weeks. And then I posted a photo online. And within an hour, 100 people had posted photos of themselves high-fiving themselves and tagged me. And I thought, all right,

maybe there's something here. Maybe this isn't so fucking cheesy. Maybe science can explain why taking this simple ritual and doing it right after you brush your teeth is possibly the single best thing that you could do for self-love, for self-confidence, for self-worth, for investing and strengthening the relationship you have with yourself.

As you may have heard, Krista and I wrote a book. It's coming out June 3rd, and you can pre-order it right now. This book is something that we wish we had when we were going through that really interesting kind of crunchy transition between your 20s and your 30s. But honestly, we realized that this time, this experience, these learnings are helping us through times of change even past that almost 30 time. So whether you are almost 30 or beyond it,

Y'all, this book is going to be so supportive for you in times of change and transformation. It's called Almost 30, A Definitive Guide to a Life You Love for the Next Decade and Beyond. And we're just so grateful for your support thus far. Now, why you ask, should you order it now if it's not here until June 3rd? Well, it is important.

One, because it tells retailers that you want this book and it really helps us out to make sure this book isn't in as many bookstores as possible, as many hands as possible. We really want this to change people's lives because you can feel so alone during this time and so like, what the heck should I be doing?

And even better, when you pre-order right now, you get some bonuses. So if you buy one copy of the book, you are going to get a 70-page Saturn Return digital companion guide. This is a beautifully designed guide, basically a part of your survival kit for this astrological rite of passage. It's a tool to help you get specific guidance on how your Saturn return will impact you.

how it's like really hitting your chart. It's designed to help you see your Saturn return as a gift rather than a crisis. It's super supportive and I'm excited for you to dig in. You'll also get a ticket to Camp Almost 30. This is an event we do every single year. The lineup is

Thank you so much.

And then finally, if you buy two books, you're going to get those two things I just mentioned. And you're going to get access to the Almost 30 Mini Workshop Series, Navigating Your Saturn Return with Kristen Lindsay. It is a step-by-step guide. So not only do you have the digital guide and you're going to be getting the book, but this is really helpful to like be in conversation with us. We're going to give you examples from our own Saturn Returns.

there's going to be clarity and laughs and moments of like, oh my God, that makes so much sense. So I'm excited for you. You can go to almost30.com slash book and learn all about it, pre-order it there and get your bonuses. Okay. Everyone's talking about their supplement stack and one of my tried and true foundational pieces of my supplement stack is

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That's drinkag1.com slash almost 30. Let's get into this spring with just a healthy, healthy mindset.

So why were you nervous to start a podcast? You're so successful. You have books. You have an amazing YouTube channel. You are one of the most successful speakers in the world. What about the podcast really made you nervous? I wanted to do it so badly. And to back up, I guess I should say it this way. I think that your fears become greater the bigger the dream is.

And there's this weird relationship between the things that you deeply dream about and desire and how scared you are of it. And it's almost as if you want it so badly, whether it's to fall in love or it's to change your career or it's to pay down your debt or it's to write music that inspires other people or in my case, music.

It's to launch and be able to do nothing but focus on this podcast. And what, you know, I never really understood because, you know, I have a daughter who's a very, she has this huge dream of being a touring musician. And from the outside, I could never understand why the fuck are you not just writing songs every day? Like you have dreamt about this since you were three years old.

This is what you're meant to do. You are meant to have your life be about music, and yet you're paralyzed. And I think sometimes there's the paralysis that hits us because we don't know what we want. And what I found with this podcast is I wanted this to be something that I could build my life around so badly that I was scared of it.

And, you know, just to give everybody listening a little bit of background, I'd say it was, gosh, what year are we in? 2022? I would say it was 15 years ago that I started hosting this local radio show in Boston, Massachusetts. It was a little Saturday morning call-in show. And I, it was the first time I'd ever done radio. I loved it. Absolutely loved it.

And it was the first thing I ever did in the media. And it was during a period of my life that was really, really hard. My husband and I were struggling financially. And that little Saturday morning show and the $25 an hour it paid, it was not only money that I needed, but more importantly, it was this lifeline.

for me. It was a way to escape my life. It was a way to connect with other people. It was a way to talk about something other than the problems I was facing. And I just loved that radio show. And, you know, the show grew and I ended up growing into a five day a week radio show. And that led to other opportunities. And I left radio, I'd say in probably 2012.

Ever since then, I've thought about it. And as the podcast market started to explode, it became very clear to me that my dream was to be one of the top podcast hosts in the world. That was my dream. And every day I would think about it because I was, I noticed I was jealous.

Jealous of you guys, honestly. They started one. Clip it. Clip it. Clip it. Clip it. Keep it for all socials. Mel's jealous of us. Seriously. Because when you, you know something's meant for you when you're jealous of other people who are doing something. And so when I met you guys, here I am extremely successful. I've paid down my debt.

I've got savings. I've made it. You know, I have a really a successful self-published career. I'm working with Audible. And deep in my heart, I knew that the thing I really wanted to be doing scared me to death. And that's why I wasn't doing it. When I met you guys, I was still busy being scared of it. I hadn't committed to doing it. I hadn't

decided this is it, we're going for it. It was still just that tug of war internally. I mean, do you two have something like that right now? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And it's, it's so interesting to hear that and really, um, yeah, it's just such a beautiful part of like the human experience I feel like. And we, we create so much shame around this feeling of like, I'm scared to do this thing or I'm jealous of someone or, you know, I have this deep desire, but I haven't done it yet. And,

And I've been just thinking about it a lot recently where this is a part of the process too. You know, it's not just about getting the thing and starting the podcast. Like what you had to move through and grow through to get here to hosting your own show, right?

was so valuable like that was really like the the gold in the process and everything else is like just sweet cherries on top but um yeah I think for me and I just said this on a coaching call with our coach yesterday I was like I'm kind of sick of my bullshit right now like I'm going to

make music this year. Like I'm sick of talking about it. I'm sick of, you know, just telling myself that I need to know the precise way to do this the right way.

I'm just so over it. And I just, what do I love? I love the process of creating. So why am I not creating? Like it just, like you said, why isn't my daughter writing songs every day? It just didn't make sense to me when I really sat down and got very real and honest with myself. So

Yeah, for sure. I think what's powerful too is also being able to say, you know, I know what I want, but I'm scared rather than the unclear, you know, a lot of people don't have clarity or they say that they don't have clarity around it. And that would even be probably me in my situation now where I'm like, I don't know, but there's

a switch when you can really say I know what I want but I'm scared rather than I don't know what I want and it's really beautiful because it might have been a transition for you even where in the end you were like you know I really know I want a podcast but I'm scared and coming to that is almost right before you were able to do it right before you were able to really lean in to

to having it and really creating this beautiful show. So it's been really powerful to see you in this journey. So did you have to have internal dialogue with yourself? Like what was your internal conversation for everyone listening? I'd love to really give them the tools and support and using this as an example in the process you took yourself through of how they can lead themselves through something that they're really scared of, but they really want. Okay, great. So a couple of things I want to say. First of all, I think it's not true.

that you're not clear about what you want. Tell me more. In the decade that I have been publicly coaching people and sharing the ups and the downs of my life, I have not met a single person that when they say, I have no idea what I want, is actually telling the truth. I believe we know deeply what we want, but we put so much fear and excuses and an active

energy into convincing ourself it's not possible that we won't even allow ourselves to consider it. And so for me, part of the thing with the podcast is that I had so much other stuff going on and so many other obligations that in order to get serious about doing this without imploding my life because I couldn't add one more thing, I had to be willing to shut everything else down. And that meant that

stopping my business as a speaker. And I am arguably the most successful female motivational speaker in the world. And it meant no longer doing productions for other people like Starbucks or Audible and all this stuff. And as you're listening, I want you to notice something. I want you to notice that you're already starting internally to resist what I'm saying, because I guarantee you

You're probably thinking, well, that's easy for you to say, Mel. You've got millions of followers. You've got a bestselling book. You've got a big YouTube channel. What possible risk should shutting that business down be? And so I want you to notice that you're going to start to reject and distance yourself from even the story that I'm telling you by saying, well, that's going to work for Mel Robbins, doesn't work for me.

That's exactly what I was doing. And it's exactly what we all do to put distance between ourselves and what we really want and to lean toward the possibility that maybe just maybe there's something in what Mel's about to share with me that is going to cut through the shit that is keeping me from claiming. It's not about clarity. It's about claiming the thing that you want and finding the courage to just tap into it and say, actually,

I do want to do stadium tours. That'd be pretty cool. Even if I have to rent them myself and nobody shows up, that'd be pretty cool. You know what I'm saying? Like allow yourself to entertain that it might be possible and that there might be something that you're going to hear. Because I think if we could silence the excuses and if we could give you a runway to just for even this conversation, give yourself permission that it might work.

Give yourself permission to believe that it turns out for you. I can give you another example. I have another daughter who is doing incredibly well on a corporate track and she's miserable. She's stressed out all the time. You know what she wants to do? She wants to be creating a business like, you know, Studio McGee, Amber Lewis, one of these interior designers that we all follow and love, right? I know as her mother, this is exactly what she should be doing.

What is stopping her from doing it? The only thing that's stopping her from doing it and starting to pivot and turn toward this thing is her own excuses. I can't do this. I got to save up more money. I don't have an interior design degree. I don't know who I would work for. I don't know how to, all of which are just excuses and excuses are just fear. I had the same thing.

You know, I was once facing bankruptcy 14 years ago. What happens if I shut down a successful business and I am no longer speaking for two years as I try to like organize my business to do a podcast for real? What would that look like? What does that mean? It was triggering old fears. And so whatever it is that you feel called to do, and in your case, you were talking about music and getting serious about music, right? Yeah.

And we're going to get clear about what you want to be doing by the end of this conversation. And I think it has something to do with spirituality. I think it has something to do with wellness and healing other people. When I look at what you're putting out, it is so clear under your content. I mean, I felt like I was on a spiritual retreat when I was following you in Marrakesh.

It is clear to me that you are either a shaman or a healer, or you've got a sixth sense that you can tap into and you're not leaning toward it. And so I'm just putting that out there. I'm not sure that that's what you'll find and claim for yourself, but there's something in that space that doesn't feel businessy that is really your gift. So what happened for me

Is the same thing that happened for you? I got sick of my own bullshit. And I know that we believe the same thing. So first you have to be willing to claim the thing that is in your heart. That doesn't mean you have to do it, but you got to be willing to let that desire flow through you. And there's a simple thing you can do. Just wake up every day.

and open up your journal. And whatever your journal practice is, just add this one thing. Write down five things that you want. Every morning, five things that you want. And they can be

anything. It could be the new Gucci handbag purse thing that's got the different colored straps. It could be that you want to lower your cholesterol. It could be that you want to heal your trauma. It could be that you want to write a song this year and put it on Spotify. It could change every day. The purpose of starting your day by opening up your journal and adding to your journaling practice, write down five things that I want is you are

teaching yourself to get in touch with your desires. You are allowing yourself to let your desires flow through you. And by writing these things down, it's almost like you are unplugging something that's clogged. You're allowing this stuff to flow from your heart down to a piece of page. Now, you don't have to do anything about it yet. I just want you to start dreaming again.

Because I believe that most of us are so blocked by fear, by insecurity, by failures in life, by disappointment, that we have stopped letting our desires flow freely. And we do it to protect ourselves from disappointment. But when you cut off your connection to what's in your heart, you feel disappointed all the time. Something feels off. When you start to do this exercise, something interesting will happen.

you'll start to feel more present to things that you want. And by simply writing down the five things that you want on this piece of paper, it is an act of giving yourself permission to want those things.

And that's step one. And so what I started to notice, and it was around the time, you know, right after I talked to you guys in New York City, that I started like really actively doing this as part of the, you know, high five habit. And the podcast thing just kept coming up and kept coming up. And what also I started writing is I just didn't want to travel so much anymore. When I'm 54 years old, I do not want to spend 150 days on a plane. I do not want to feel like I have to hustle.

I do not, like it's just a dumb business model. And so I just kept going to myself and then here's something else. We just talked about this on a podcast episode. Start when you keep doing this and you start to get tapping into your desires. Just ask yourself, and I love this prompt. I stole this from my friend, Amy. How can I make this easy? How can I make this easy? I want to start a podcast. How can I make this easy? And the shocking thing about that prompt

is our brains default to what's hard. Let's just take the singing and getting serious about music. When you claim that as something that you want, what are the first things that pop into your mind when you even entertain that thought? Well, how am I going to do it in a legitimate way? Do I have time for that? Am I even... No, that's not really one. Yeah, I think it's the how. The how is such a... Where my brain just goes, well...

You know, you don't know the right people. Where's the producer? How are you going to record it? How's it going to go on Spotify? All of these hows and when really like my genius is not in the hows and that's okay. But I have an incredible network of people around me that show up literally and are ready and willing to support and kind of be those like ushers into that.

And by the way, like I thought about this the other day, and I'm sure you have these stories too, where like once we were podcasters in our closets on the floor, not knowing what the hell we were doing at all. And now we coach and teach podcasters how to do this. And it's like, oh, right. That lives, that ability lives within all of us. And again, it's like this fear of like,

I think for me, it's like that, ooh, that starting over feeling of like, I got to go through the mud. But I love that prompt of what if it was easy? What part of you- How can I make this easy? How can I make this easy? So let's go through this right now. Okay. Think about your desire to start writing and recording music again. And now let me ask you the question, how can this be easy?

I mean, I have the ability to record anything, you know, in my home, whether it's on the equipment that we have on my phone. Like I'm thinking so narrowly, I think, in how music is recorded. The way I do it might be new. So, yeah, just beginning. And yeah, I just I have so many people around me that I can literally say, hey,

can you help me like find a studio where I could record this? Or, hey, do you have a producer friend that would be interested in supporting me? Like not putting so much pressure on every little step. Yeah. Every big step. Yeah. So if you were to every day, write down five things that you want and then also ask yourself, how can this be easy?

Oh, I could ask for help. Oh, I could take the pressure off. Oh, I could just hum the arrangement instead of worrying about playing the arrangement. Oh, I could find sessions. Oh, I could do when you, cause here's the deeper thing too. And that's that our brains default to searching for reasons why it won't. And that's exactly what your brain did. And so when you use that prompt, how can this be easy? You give your brain an alternate thought.

One of the reasons why so many of us love Oracle cards and prayer and prompts and gratitude journals and all of these things or guided meditation is it gives you something else to think about because your own brain will default to, well, I don't know. Well, that's going to be hard. Well, this is going to be hard. And so the prompt is,

How can this be easy? Forces your brain to search for reasons for how this could be easy or easier. And so for me with the podcast, it's like, how could this be easy? Oh, well, for me, ironically, the answer became, you could start saying out loud that in 18 months, this is a reality. You could start saying out loud to your team, I am going to do this. You could say out loud anytime somebody calls,

and says, I want to hire you in September, a year from now to give a speech mail, you could start saying, I'm launching a podcast then. I'm not going to be available. So instead of even for me, the answer wasn't start recording podcasts, start studying. It was literally just say it out freaking loud. And I've noticed that our daughter has had this major shift because she's coming on to graduation.

And she's already saying out loud, well, I'm pursuing music. So I got to get a bartending license because I got to figure out how to make money. I'm pursuing music. So maybe I'll ask the family I babysit for while I'm a student if they have more hours for me. So I have flexibility. I'm pursuing music. So I better start getting sessions. And so even just saying it out loud

in your life is a way to make it easy. But I love this prompt because I didn't realize the extent to which your mind defaults to looking for what's hard. And so give it a prompt to help it search for ways to make it easier. And it will. Your mind loves an assignment. And this is a simple one that will help you get started. And so as weird as it sounds, the steps were, I'm tired of my own bullshit.

I'm tired of denying myself this thing that I deeply want. I started writing down five things a day. I started noticing it is there every single day. And then I started saying it out loud and not forcing myself to do it overnight and not forcing myself to do it in a month and not forcing myself to do it immediately, but saying this matters so much to me that I'm going to say a year from now,

Things are going to look very different. And I'm going to start saying that now, that this is going to be a part of my day-to-day life. And I didn't even know what that meant. And so those were the first couple steps that really got me out of my own way.

And helped me make this major pivot and helped me also to start to identify how much my own thinking was part of the reason why I wasn't doing anything to move forward. And once I started that, I said it out loud.

I kept doing the five things I want. It kept showing up. And then I'm just like, how can I make this easy? How can I make this easy? How can I make this easy? And your mind, when you give it an assignment, will take that assignment and it will help you make it easy.

Okay, I'm curious your relationship with sleep. So mine has changed since becoming a mom and there are just times when it's time for me to go to bed that I cannot fall asleep. My mind's running a little bit, what I didn't get done today or I'm thinking about, oh, is Mav gonna get up tonight? You know, the nighttime scaries for mommy but I have just, I've changed my own game. When I found the Dream Powder from Beam,

I was like, wait, where has this been my whole life? It's an incredible, incredible science-backed healthy hot cocoa for sleep. It's not only delicious, but it really, really works. So I'm sure some of you have tried sleep aids before. And I think what's bothered me in the past is like how I feel when I wake up. It just doesn't make me feel great.

But what I love, love, love about the Dream Powder is that you are getting real quality sleep. Okay? It is clinically proven to improve your sleep. So you are getting deep sleep. You're getting your proper REM and it allows you to wake up in the morning feeling refreshed rather than groggy.

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shop B-E-A-M.com slash almost 30 and use the code almost 30 for up to 40% off. I'm wondering how many people, when they think about like really supporting themselves, really believing in themselves, how much they're thinking about other people, seeing them do that and how other people might be judging that. I'm speaking that because I feel like I've experienced that where I'm like, what if I just really own...

who I am and believe in my talents and what I want to do, how would other people feel about that? And I know that's like, I feel that contraction. That's definitely the small part of me. But I feel like a lot of people, especially with social media, feel that, feel those eyes, feel that judgment if they really were to believe in themselves. Is there anything in your research that has shown that that is true? And how do we...

Because I feel like more often than not, people want to support you. People who care about you want to support you. They want to be a part of something that you might want to bring to the world. Yeah. So how do we flip that? I sound like a broken record, but let me come at it this way. The most important relationship you have in life is the one you have with yourself. The relationship you have with yourself is the foundation of every relationship you will have in life. If you are insecure with yourself,

and your worth, you will be insecure in every relationship that you have. If you don't love yourself, you will not let other people love you. It is a fact. And so I know we all know we need to put ourselves first. We need to learn how to take care of ourselves and believe in ourselves. But the answer is how? There's only two ways.

The first way is to do what I'm suggesting, which is free and super simple, and you can incorporate it into your morning routine. High five your reflection. Because what happens is you leverage a huge body of research called behavioral activation therapy. You often see it referred to as BAT for short. Behavioral activation therapy is a super fancy term that just means act like the person you want to become. Act like the person you want to become.

And so if you want to become the kind of person that believes in themselves, I guarantee you, Oprah Winfrey has no problem high-fiving herself in the mirror. Tyler Perry, no problem high-fiving themselves in the mirror.

Somebody that has rock solid confidence sees a person that is worth betting on. Start acting like it. And over time, something interesting happens. Your brain is always paying attention. Always. And it filters the world and what it's saying to you in real time.

based on what is happening and what you say is important. And if you start acting like a person who loves themselves, I'm not talking arrogant, conceited, oh, look at me, you know, I'm like this. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about you love yourself enough to not beat the shit out of yourself mentally. You love yourself enough to encourage yourself. You love yourself enough to be kind to yourself.

They did this crazy study out of the UK that looked at everything you could do to improve your life. From seeing your friends more, to eating kale, to exercising, to meditating. Do you know the number one behavior change? Number one that has the biggest impact on your happiness, your fulfillment, your well-being. Number one behavior change. Meditation? Nope. I don't know. Being kind to yourself.

And it is the thing we practice the least. And so I feel like the fastest way to do this, honestly, is to number one, start practicing this. Do it for five days. That's all I'm asking. What do you got to lose?

You know, you're beating yourself up. Is it working? Does it make you feel great? Is the tough love thing actually serving you? Do that and see how you feel in five days. I can tell you right now sitting here, I know that it's going to change your life because it changes you. It changes how you see you. We had a woman write to us about how she's had body dysmorphia for 20 years. Couldn't look herself in the mirror.

Five days of doing this thing, she can now look at herself in the eye and grin because she said, I don't even see the body. I see the human being that's been ignored. We had a woman write to us from a domestic violence shelter. She's got severe childhood trauma. She's just escaped this wildly abusive relationship. She's lost everything. High-fiving herself in the mirror. Just five days. This was her realization. I've lost everything and I've got a lot of work to do to heal and to rebuild my life.

But what I know is that I have my own back. I still have myself. And that's the kind of thing that like, I can't, I cannot underscore enough. I just got a text from my daughter who was like, mom, you know, I'm so happy for you. I can't wait to read your book. You know, I, I, I, I, I've been doing the high five thing. And I said, great, how's it going? And I can show you the text. I mean, this is legit. She said something like, you know, it's kind of weird because I,

Even though I've done it two mornings in a row, I still feel like I'm not as pretty as the other girls. And I said, well, I want you to keep trying it. And she said, okay, but I also like what happens if I haven't done the thing that I said I would do? Like, for example, yesterday I said I would go to the gym and I said I would spend two hours, you know, practicing. She's a music student. And I didn't do those things.

should I still high five myself in the mirror? And I said to her, absolutely you should.

Because what you're doing when you high five yourself after you've let yourself down is you are recognizing that yesterday was hard. You're recognizing that you didn't do what you said you would do. And you still love and celebrate yourself for showing up again. And then I said, well, how does that feel? And she said, that feels amazing. And I said, well, tell me in your own words what you think this is going to do. And she then said...

I realize even in these two days how hard I am on myself. And what this is starting to teach me is that if I just celebrate the small wins and a small win mom is just waking up again, shaking it off and saying, I'm going to try a little better again today. Those little wins stack up. And then I start to feel like I'm having some big wins. And that then makes me feel confident enough to go for anything.

I'm like, that's after two days with a 21-year-old insecure resigned college student? Like, that's amazing. And also, keep in mind that I'm her mother, so she's less likely to try this thing and more likely to roll her eyes at me. The second way that you can really go to war against that lack in belief is to fight the...

loop of criticism and worry in your mind that leads to anxiety. And one thing that really works for this, and again, this is like giving your mind a high five. It's switching out of the negative attitude of anxiety and into a positive high five attitude of belief and encouragement. I could talk for hours about anxiety because I struggled with it so profoundly. So I'll let you tell me where you want me to go with this.

I definitely want to talk about anxiety, but there was also just in a lot of the stories, there's like the comment that we hear about your husband and that relationship. And I feel like so much of our community are women that are very growth focused and they oftentimes struggle with anxiety, but they really struggle with like this burning desire to want more from life. And sometimes it does transmute into like a focus or an anger on their relationship. So for your relationship and your marriage, like what is that trajectory been like and how have you...

healed that so now it's in support of your dreams, but rather than like being a place where you're projecting? Yeah, fabulous question. So in context, I've been married for 25 years. We literally celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary like three weeks ago. And it's been up and down. And one of the gifts of my marriage is that Chris and I have found ourselves at different times in very different roles in our marriage. And

And so we have been at times where we were without kids and we were both working and we were making about the same amount of money. And then we got into a mode where we had kids and our kids are now 22, 21 and 16 years old, where he was the lead. And I was sort of the more traditional, I have a job, but your money is our money. My money is my play money kind of situation.

And then we got into a point, which was 12 years ago, where my husband wanted to pursue a dream of going into the restaurant business.

It had always been his dream. Now, look, I grew up working in restaurants. And I think one thing that will cure you of wanting to own one is working. Yeah, that's true. That's so true. And so I'm like, okay, I'll see how this goes. And he and his best friend, to their credit, they wrote a business plan. They raised a little bit of money. They quit their corporate jobs. They opened a little pizza joint outside of Boston, Massachusetts. The first one was a home run. And so like complete fucking idiots, we cashed everything out.

401ks, the 529 plans for the kids. We then took out a home equity line because that's free money. We leveraged credit cards. We shoved it all in to expand the restaurant business and then 2008 hit.

Housing crisis hit the United States. We found ourselves like everybody else upside down. The liens hit the house, 800 grand in debt, maxed out home equity line, maxed out credit cards. I never, ever thought that at the age of 41 with three kids under the age of 10, I would not be able to buy groceries. Friends and family had invested.

And the restaurants were still open and they were doing everything that they could to try to make it work. And I didn't want anybody to know. And this was absolutely the rock bottom moment of my life. I was drinking myself into the ground. I would wake up every single morning. I became a person I didn't recognize. I would literally hit that snooze button four times because I could not face the day.

My kids would miss the bus every morning. I was that harried mom that was racing to school, kind of throwing them out of the car, forgot the lunches, forgot the forms. That was the beginning of the day. Hiding from my friends, pissed off at my husband. I would start drinking at three o'clock in the afternoon to numb it all. I was unemployed. It was a fucking nightmare. And my problems felt so big.

That I just started circling the drain. Like, why bother? Like, I know how this ends. We lose the house. We get divorced. I hate you. It's your fault. Because the truth is, it's so much easier to be angry than it is to be afraid. And so here's the thing that I want to really focus on. You know what to do. We all do. Knowing what to do is the easy part. I knew it wasn't Chris's fault. It's not like he started the business to fail. No.

I know the restaurant business is a bitch and most restaurants fail. I knew I needed a job. I knew I needed to talk to my friends. I knew I needed to stop drinking. I knew I needed to be nicer to him and stop. I knew I needed to exercise. Like we all know what to do. It's the how. How do you make yourself do it when you feel scared or anxious or alone or beaten down or shame? Like all of it.

That was my struggle every day. And, you know, I got out of that mess by sheer luck. And I think it was divine intervention because the story is so stupid. There's no other explanation. Literally, I was watching television one night. It was a Monday night outside of Boston, Massachusetts.

And I was having a moment where I was having a pep talk with myself. I don't know if you've ever been that low where you're like, all right, that's it. Tomorrow morning, it's the new you, Mel Robbins. You've got to pull this shit together. You have got to look for a job. You've got to stop screaming, Chris. If you're going to drink, start at eight o'clock. Don't start at three. You know, like literally drunk. Exactly. Like, okay.

Totally. Totally. I have four Manhattans in at this point. Mel, we got this. I got this. I got this, woman. And then tomorrow morning, you are going to get your ass out of there. You're not going to hit that soon. And then all of a sudden, honest to goodness, this is what happened. A rocket ship launches across the television screen at the end of the commercial. And those four Manhattans gave me a crazy ass idea. I said, Mel,

tomorrow morning, you are going to launch yourself out of bed like a rush. You are going to move so fast, woman. You're not going to be in that bed when that anxiety hits. You are going to be on your way. Now that was it. That was the moment. I always say you're one decision away from a totally different life. One decision away. The next morning, Tuesday morning, this is when everything changed. The alarm goes off. And then this is

something I want everyone to understand. There's a five-second window of hesitation where you start to think about what you need to do. And this five-second window of hesitation defines your whole life. It determines how much money you make, how happy you are, how healthy you are, whether or not your relationship is amazing. It's a moment of hesitation that's a habit where you start thinking about what you need to do. And I am here to give you the secret to all behavior change. If you move within that five-second moment of hesitation,

You beat your subconscious brain and you take control. And I didn't know this at the time. I mean, come on. I had invented this while I was drunk on Manhattans. I now know the science, but here's how it works. So that alarm went off and this is how I would test this.

Set your alarm 30 minutes earlier tomorrow morning and do it 30 minutes earlier on purpose because when that alarm goes off, you're going to be pissed off and full of resistance. Just like when you stand in front of the mirror and you're about to high five yourself, you're going to feel resistance. The resistance to getting out of bed is the exact same resistance that you feel standing in front of the mirror. It's the exact same resistance you feel when you are speaking up at work or

or when you're drawing a boundary, or when you're putting down the donut, or you're pushing yourself away from your computer to go meditate. Resistance anywhere is the same as resistance everywhere. So if you can learn how to beat it in one area of your life, you can do it everywhere. So the alarm goes off. And you'll notice in that moment when alarm goes off, this moment of hesitation starts where you consider whether or not you feel like getting out of bed.

And for me, I'd start thinking, I don't want to, I don't give a shit that I thought like, how's this going to help? It's cold. It's February. I don't want to.

All you do in that moment when you feel the resistance kick in is count backwards, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. That's it. Do not count up, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. It doesn't work. You have to count backwards, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Because when you start counting backwards, it requires focus. That shuts off the subconscious brain and awakens your prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain you use when you take the SATs, when you're present, when you're acting with confidence and courage. It gives you immediate control. Mm.

By the time you get to one, you now have a fucking shot. Move. Move.

that's how you change behavior. In habit research, it's called a starting ritual. It's a little brain hack. It's a form of metacognition that you can use as a tool to push yourself to do the things that scare you or that you're avoiding. Or 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, pull yourself away from the rosé if you're trying to do Whole30. Pull yourself away or 75 hard, which I, for some fucking reason, signed up for. What is that? I'm going to say seven, which is why I'm so angry right now. I know.

I'll tell you that in a minute. But here's the thing about the five-second rule. I didn't know it then, but I went on to use it in secret for three years. I then was invited to give a talk where I blurted out at the end of the talk because I have no idea how to end the talk. That talk that I'm talking about is a TEDx talk that now has 27 million views. If you watch it, you'll see me have a 21-minute long panic attack on the stage. At the end of the... It was the first speech I'd ever given. Wow.

I forget how to end it. It was about career change. It was not about the five-second rule. I blurred out, oh, by the way, there's this thing I do. I call it the five-second rule. You got to move within five seconds or your brain kills it. Thank you very much. I was so disassociated.

The anxiety was so bad. I've got this massive neck rash. And I even give out my email address. Like that's how I was obsessed with that. Haven't cleaned up the inbox yet. Literally a year goes by. You gave out your email address. And nothing happens. And then they put it online. And then another year goes by.

I don't even know it's online. And it gains a million views and people start to write to me. And I'm like, oh, were you in San Francisco? And they're like, no, it's online. I'm like, it's online? Wow. That's how the five second rule got out, by mistake. So when I say this is like, God, the universe, whatever you believe or don't believe in is like, okay, this crazy woman is ballsy enough to stand on a stage and tell people if you count backwards from five, it'll change your life and actually mean it. And I do. Pediatricians around the world now use it.

To help kids interrupt the thoughts that cause anxiety. Veterans organizations are using it to help reframe programs associated with PTSD. We know of more than 111 people who have stopped an attempt at suicide by counting backwards and asking for help. This shit works.

And I'm telling you that the obstacles that you're facing in your life are real. The shit that you've survived in your life, it's big and it's real. The trauma that you're still trying to heal is real.

5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and high-fiving yourself in the mirror will not change those things. It changes you. And that changes your ability to face those things, to take responsibility for what happens next and to heal and to go create a life that makes you happy.

Thank you so much to Mel Robbins for coming on Almost 30 over the years. We appreciate you so deeply. And again, this is because we have the book out and we're doing these really special episodes that have some of the best of the best from our favorite podcast guests like Mel Robbins and Jay Shetty, because they've also been featured in the book. We also have Jay on the front of our book as one of the people that recommended our book, Almost 30. And so we're excited for you to get it in your hands.

We love you guys to order the book right now and get it on your doorstep on June 3rd. Go to almost30.com slash book. Love you. We love you. Bye.