778. Shan Boodram on Seduction, Self-Confidence + Keeping Sparks Alive in Love
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Greetings. Welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. It's Lindsay and Krista here in New York. Here in New York, baby. And we're ready for our Shan Boodram episode. So ready. So ready. We just said Shan and our incredible producer here at the studio was like, I love Shan. She's the best. And we got into a deep conversation quick. This is what happens when you record with Krista and Lindsay. We're talking about your first herpes outbreak. Yeah.

No, it wasn't. Yeah. You just talk about like, it is, it goes from, I know this person to like, I might've had crabs. I know. I like it. And it's, but I think also too, because Shan is so open and vulnerable, it kind of leaves that space, like the world of sex and relationships, which is her world. So she is an expert in sex and relationships. She has degrees. She has a new masterclass that's out. That's all on, um,

intimacy and flirting that we're going to talk about in this episode. But when you kind of swim in that world, it gives you permission to go there immediately with stuff. And even I, being friends with her, have to get metabolized to it, hanging out with her with the sex stuff. Because I'm just a girl from Ohio, so I still get a little like squeamish with stuff. Yeah.

Well, she's always been so comfortable. I remember those early years of having her on the show. And I mean, we were blushing the whole time. Oh my gosh, 10 years old. But yeah, I think she's always been so unafraid to...

one go there, but then also be a total nerd and bring in the science behind it, the research. And then that kind of grounds you. Yeah. You're like, okay. Yeah. So scientists have talked about this. And she's beautiful in magnetics. You're just like, sure, man. Yeah, totally. Whatever you say. If you're not into what she's saying, you're into just taking in her beauty. Yes. And there's no... I think when I talk about it, I'm like, eh.

And so when she's talking about it, she's like, yeah. And then he pulls, you know, he pulls the back of your hair while he's fucking you from the back. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, that's right. He's doing that thing. So in this episode, Shannon and I got to sit down and talk about her new masterclass, The Art of Sex Appeal, which is fascinating. We got to explore sex.

so much of what's in it. And this masterclass was beautiful. It was so beautifully shot. You could get the masterclass app and then watch masterclasses from people like Shan or people like Seth Godin. There's the art of negotiation one, which is really good. It's often on a lot of flights. I don't know why I like loved that one. Yeah, it's so good. Why is that? None of us are like,

we're not negotiators, but you have to negotiate in what we do. In anything that anyone does, you kind of have to negotiate whether it's like business or personal. Yeah. With your partner, you have to negotiate. But what did I learn from that that I am taking away because I've watched it? Okay, tell me. No, I'm trying to think. I'm wondering myself. I'm like, okay, I loved it, but what did I learn? I think the one thing that I learned was that

And I don't know if this is from, it has to seem like you both are winning. Yes. It has to seem like you both are conceding and you both are winning. Yes. But isn't that just relationships? Totally. I'm going to watch it again. Negotiation is kind of a dynamic within relationships that you kind of have to get used to, but the relationship is the foundation. Yeah. So having trust, having respect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listening.

We think of negotiation. I feel like all of us think of like getting a higher salary. Yeah, honestly. I just think of the psyche of people where it's like people love that. They're like, I love the art of negotiation. I love 48 Laws of Power because they think that they're going to go use it all the time on people and kind of like – Totally. It's like, I don't know, but it – okay, anyway, so that's a good one. The Seth Godin one on book writing is a good one. I did watch the Amy Poehler one. Masterclass has been –

The thing about it is like I had to reevaluate where I was getting information and in what form and so much of it was on social media. And I was like my brain is actually frying and I need to slow it down, be a bit more intentional and have it be out of those types of apps. And so this feels like a very just curated, thorough, deep way to learn about so many different things.

Um, yeah, I just love it. And the art of sex appeal with my girl, I mean, it's just fascinating because there's so much little things that you can do with your eyes and your body and the way that you move and the way that you talk that is so much fun. And now in my life being single and having been in relationship, being in my masculine, being, feeling like I was hiding to now feeling like I am like,

in my era, it is the most intoxicating fun experience and feeling to be in your sexuality and your pleasure and your femininity and life. Like I've never, I've never had so much fun. Yeah. How do you feel like it's changed the way you feel on dates with another person? I just get ready for a show. Like if Lindsay was the fly on the wall, what would she be saying? Trying too hard.

You'd be like, how old is he? It's just, what is it? It's a confidence and embodiment. And it's also now I don't care and want anything from someone. So what I realized in dating before when I first started dating, I didn't really know how to approach men because I hadn't been in relationship with men in so long besides my ex-husband.

And so I kind of forgot how to communicate with men. And so when I left that relationship, I was approaching men with the perception of this being an exchange where you're either going to be someone I'm going to date or I don't care. And you're either going to be the man I'm going to marry or I don't care. And I wasn't seeing them as like a human and as a person.

And obviously I was kind and loving and gracious, but in my mind there was something else there that was sort of keeping me from actually seeing the three-dimensional of this person. And I think women can do that when they really want to find someone or when they start dating, they can sort of lose that sense of,

reminder that like this person is there to teach you something. They could be someone that you're with for a short time, a long time, but it's not just like an end goal. Like sometimes people look at people like the end goal. Are you my husband or not? And so I was kind of approaching men like that. So now to come...

be fully comfortable in actually just dating and having experiences and meeting people and loving it. And now having men friends, I have so many men friends now. My birthday party like two weeks ago was like half men. And I actually haven't had men friends in so long because I was in a long-term partnership that just didn't really, it's not like he wasn't supportive of that. It just like,

things shifted. And so now being able to have relationships with men as friends has also helped me in so many ways, feel more confident, like I can be myself and that I'm a human and they're human. And so there's this element of going on dates or being in these experiences where it's so much more truthful and I don't want anything from anyone. I'm here to have fun and enjoy myself.

If not, that's good. If so, that's great. Yeah, I think we – like I remember when I was dating, it's like I would always forget that this is an opportunity to like practice being myself, being comfortable, being embodied, being whatever it is. And I would get so in my head. So I just lived in my head a lot while dating. I would use my body to try and trick them into things. But like it was just a different –

The energy was centered here, up here, and not just like fully in my body and in my heart. And yeah, for anyone who's dating, I think it's just such a fun opportunity to be like, I'm going to be myself tonight. Yes.

I'm going to focus on just being in my body and not thinking about whether this person is my person or not. I'm going to look for things that I really love rather than things that annoy me. A hundred percent. I think that's what I do now at the end of every day. I'll come home and

I'll sit with myself and think, how do I feel in my body? How did I feel during that date? And then I'll rate myself of like how much I was myself. Because there'll be so many moments where if you're witnessing yourself, you're holding back, you're not saying something. Like I even was on this date with this man who I've been dating and he's very religious. And I noticed that I wasn't saying things and I wasn't sharing things.

And I was like, okay, the next day I'm going to share things and be truthful and share more of the full scope of me instead of this one aspect of me. Because I can go very deep and

Like theology, philosophy, religion. I could talk about that forever, but there's so many more sides of me. So I was like, and it was kind of clunky on the next date for me to be like, okay, so I also like this. What do you think about this? I do this. Like I kind of had to share more of the truth of me. And sometimes it doesn't always come out perfectly finessed.

But it's like I need you to know that I'm not just this person that you're seeing for four hours on this date that can have an amazing conversation about the Beatitudes. Like it's like I am actually a lot of other things. And I think the more that we can also see people in dating in different situations and circumstances, the better. Because I just realized too a lot of times I'd be at beautiful dinners.

in Beverly Hills. You know what I mean? Just like, I'm like, this is not my real life. This is a beautiful experience that I'm having, but it's like, how can we have the beautiful experience, but also have more of the truth? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what happens like in the shift when you're dating someone where like the beginnings are the, you know, the wine, the dine, the courting, which I think should be. And

And then there's kind of this shift to like mixing in some more like everyday real experiences. Yep. And slowly but surely over time, you kind of like overlap your lives a little bit. You see each other in moments of distress or challenge or whatever. Yes. Or you see how they, you know, keep their home or they whatever and...

That's, I think, when you can have, when you have the opportunity to be very real, very truthful, be in like honest conversation. Because yeah, there's something that happens when like the lights are dim. Yes. The table's perfect. Yes. The music's awesome. Yes. You're in a vibe. You're almost like hypnotized a little bit. Yes, 100%. A little bit. I'm transported into this experience. Yes, totally. Like I'm just like. Totally. Exactly. You're playing the part, but like you're yourself. Yes. But it's also kind of like this.

Like, exaggerated is the wrong word. It's a texture. Yeah. It's a certain texture. And also my invitation in these is I think what I've been doing recently with these men is like I would usually hold back on the truth of how I feel. It's funny because...

I saw this reel where this girl was talking about – she was sharing information from Alison Armstrong who's an amazing relationship person. And Alison Armstrong says to stop speaking and let – like after men talk, after a man finishes talking, hold and stay quiet for like 20 seconds to like give him space to share more. And I was like – because men oftentimes just need more space and grace to talk because I guess women are talking a lot. I'm like I'm the opposite. Right.

I'm like, I am not talking at all. Which would surprise people, I think, because you talk for a living. 100%. I am full. I'm a maestro. I'm asking the questions and we're moving along. And I'll share things, but I'm talking very briefly to continue to facilitate.

So my invitation is sharing more about how I feel and what I'm thinking rather than less because I will usually hide, you know, like recently I've been struggling with my mental health and I will usually hide that and be like, I'm great. Life is good. You know, everything's amazing. And that's normally how I feel. But recently I've been like, I'm going to tell them how I feel.

how I'm truly feeling. Because if anyone's going to buy into me, they need to buy into this too. And they need to not get in eight months in and then realize that I sometimes struggle with my mental health and that I'm struggling and that I'm a person that has like a 360 degree perspective on life. And so bringing this forward to be more truthful at the beginning is

I don't know if it's been working or not, but it's like, I just, something feels like something I have to do. Yeah. You have to do it. I think it just, it, then it unlocks something within them, perhaps, hopefully where like they feel comfortable, you know, it's just this, like, fortunately, unfortunately there is the giving of permission to each other about certain things, sharing certain things, allowing certain, you know, it's,

It's that unsaid way of communicating where you're sharing something and speaking, but like there's that subtext of like, you know, I feel comfortable telling you this and I want you to know that I'm, you know, a real human. Yeah, totally. And you could tell me too. And to see then too, it's like a test a little bit, like how are they going to react or respond? For sure. You know, like what's their reaction or how do they... I'm trying to think of how people have reacted. Yeah.

I don't even really know. Well, let me tell you about my depression. I don't honestly know for real, though. They're like, you think you're depressed? It's hard for people not to talk about themselves. Oh, for sure. They're like, I think, too, men are funny because men will be like, and I don't know if this is my experience, like, oh, you know, I struggled, too. It's mostly them...

A lot of times people feel like they need to relate rather than just like ask more questions, hold space. And I think a lot of people, because depression and anxiety is like kind of nebulous sometimes, and there's for a lot of us not really a root or like a fix or it's not like I'm struggling with this thing. Once this is fixed, I'll feel better. It's kind of like, okay, where do we go from here? Yeah. And...

I think sometimes, too, at the beginning of a relationship, you're like, oh, is this going to be forever? You know, you kind of, like, have to wonder about what you're kind of buying into or getting. But anywho, in this episode with Shan, it was so much fun. It was at my house. And really...

really in the masterclass that she has that talks about having more attraction and deeper intimacy and basically increase fulfillment inside and outside of the relationship. So if you're someone that's single, if you're someone that's in relationship, this is going to really help you deepen. It's very like graphic in some ways where you can see positions and you can see things to say and things to do in the bedroom. And then it's also minor things you can do in dating or when you're out in the world to attract more people and feel more confident and embodied in yourself. But

I found it to be incredibly helpful. There's like, so she does this thing where she's like, there's like different things you can do with your head as an example to signal to someone sort of what you desire sexually or to be sexual. And it's like kind of going like the look down, which is like this, the look down eyes up, or it's like, do I look special? I'm like, this is sexy, right? Look down eyes.

Everyone's like, I'm literally never taking that master class. I was like a triple chin. I'm like, I'm looking down. Eyes open. I was like, touch your nose. I was like, they go like this. Don't listen to me, but it's literally, it's a sick one.

And we have a few other episodes with our girl Shan. We're going to be doing a live podcast with her as well. And yeah, she's just an incredible person. She's Shan Broodrum on Instagram. And then she has her website where she's doing more courses and programs and stuff. But her content's always been some just inspiring to me. She's very truthful and real. And I just love her.

Yeah. We love you, Sham. Thanks for coming on again. And you can get her masterclass at masterclass.com. Yes. Okay, guys. Enjoy this episode. Subscribe to Almost 30 to make sure you never miss an episode with us and make sure to pre-order the book. The book is coming out in June and we are so excited to be sharing it with the world. It's like

It's just, it's our life's work and it's so good. So make sure to get it. Spend that $30 to last you for an entire year of personal growth and self-development from us. Almost30.com slash book. Okay. We'll see you on the other side. Okay. I've always been someone who loves the idea of adventure. Like give me a new trail to run or a random side street to wander down and I'm totally in. But as a mom, I've also realized the real adventure is just

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Hey guys, welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. Me and my friend Shander here. I'm an actual friend, true friend. True friend. True friend. And I told you this story already, but I have a class on Masterclass. Yes. And then they gave me a PR person to help me promote it. And then the first email I got from her was like, exciting news. We have you booked on a podcast, a huge podcast. It's perfect for our demographic. It's Almost 30. And I was like, bitch, that's my friend. I

I literally saw the email. I was like, yeah, tell Shan to come over. Tell her to bring back my shoes. Literally, I was like, I haven't hung out with that bitch in a while. I'm like, tell her to literally come over. And I didn't see it because I don't look at pitches. And it said Masterclass at the beginning. And then I literally saw your name. I was like, yeah. Okay, fine. Just, yeah, tell her to come. But you know what's, like, cool is that I watched the whole Masterclass and...

It's such an interesting experience when you watch your friends who are so talented and gifted. I know this is just very flirty. Jump off a cliff. Yeah. And you are able to metabolize their gifts, but not be intimidated by them, but just be like, it's funny because I'm with you as a friend and the family and whatever. But like then seeing you as the teacher, I can also metabolize you as the teacher where I'm like, no, I'm really learning from her as a teacher. Yeah.

That's actually a very big compliment for me because I feel that people who know me have a very hard time learning from me. What? Yeah. I mean, the top one, I think that my real life persona is not very sexy. That's true. It's nasty. It's piglet. It's piglet. I'm just very, and also I spend a lot of time in mom mode. So I think a lot of people in my like inner orbit sort of see me in like a

I don't know. I'm kind of gong showy. Yeah, you are. I'm a little bit of a mess. Yes. Yeah. So that's how they see me. So then to have me teach a class called the art of seduction, they're like, bitch, shut up. Yeah. So I think that they just automatically dismiss, but my sister watched it. Who's my sister watches everything that I do and reads. She read my book, the first draft of it. I hope you have a sister who read yours. Yeah. Didn't send it to me. So I guess we're not that close, but I didn't send it to anybody. Cause I'm like still metabolizing it. Okay. You sent it to somebody.

I swear to you. There was a friend. There was somebody who got to read it. I haven't. I'm going to move on, but we'll dig. We'll find out. And you've heard it. Shut up. Okay. You have other closer friends than me. I know. You have many friends. This is dumb. Keep talking about what you're talking about. You do. You have so many friends. You do too. You would have more friends if you let more people in. You're higher up in my list of friends. No, that's a lie. You're guaranteed are higher up in my list than I'm on yours. That's not true because you don't let people in.

Okay. No, I don't need to. There we go. My little tender. I love you so much. You're high on my list. Thank you. And I appreciate that. And I do feel that. I'm only just joking. I think that we are incredibly good friends and I feel like such a closeness with you, such a bond with you. I adore you. I love you. I love introducing people that I know to you because they love you. So I love sharing you. The gift that you have of making lots of friends and being close with people is one of my favorite parts of you that...

I like to show you off like a show pony. Like, look at my friend Krista. You'll want to be her best friend. You just treated Claudine so beautifully. Thank you for that. Yeah. I know that she's going to leave here and just feel so special. She's going to want to work for me. A hundred percent. Yeah. Everybody does. I'm trying to poach actually. Yeah.

I don't think you understand what my vibe is to you. And because you're so lovable. So no, that to be said, to hear you say that is a great gift. My sister also said, I can't believe I'm 41 years old learning things about my body that I had literally never, ever heard before. I'm like, one, you don't watch my videos, obviously. And number two, thank you.

So before we get into the masterclass, because I watched and I was blown away. You are such a great teacher, but talking about that journey of motherhood and feeling like you're not sexy and seductive, even you mentioning it, like, what has that been like? Because there are a lot of women that are either have either stepped into motherhood or even are in a phase in life where they're like, I don't feel sexy. I don't feel seductive. Like, I don't feel that feeling. Like, how do you balance that where, you know, you're a sexy being, you know, you're like,

You know, you have that, but you don't feel like you tap into it a lot. Yeah, I think I noticed it when I was pregnant. Yeah. When I would go out and all of a sudden people's eyes were on my stomach. Like that's what they would look at. And then now when I go out, people's eyes are on my kids. And so you just watch the gaze shift. I'm very fortunate to have a husband whom like, look at my look at my legs right now, girl.

You guys, if you're listening, they're sparsely hairy, but stunning. She's got bomb legs. But that's exactly what he would see too. He would be like, you have stunning legs and also you probably haven't shaved in a while. But just to be said, it's also a pro and a con because before

you know, when I was in my sexy sensual era, he doesn't give lots of compliments. He just like always accepts me as is. So if I look my, what I would note to be my absolute best, or I look medium, like the treatment's the same, which is positive in some cases, but when you're dressed up, you want to be like...

Can I get a moment here? Yeah, you're like, hello. But on the flip side, when I was going through periods of time where I didn't feel it, I never felt a difference in how he treated me or the gaze that he looked at me or the way that he looked at me. So like that was a gift to have within my relationship, which I think from a sexual standpoint, I've always felt just as sexual. I've always felt like sex was just as accessible to me. I always felt just as good as

maybe in many cases in bed, but I just think as a sexual being out there in the world, there definitely was a shift. I think at the end of the day, you just have to choose to have a different thing that attracts people instead of it being, you know,

Before I used to get a million compliments on my eyes all the time. But now I get more of a compliment on the light in my eyes. Like people will meet me and be like, you're so confident. Like, wow. And before I'd be like, oh my God, your eye color is so... But that's not what they see anymore. And that's just a natural part of aging and going to different transitions of your life. And so seductiveness is always attainable for you, but you just have to reach into different bags. Wow.

And I'm grateful that I've spent a lot of time, you know, creating my bags of seductive tools. And so I realized, okay, well, this one, this trick is not tricking anymore. Like, well, what else do I have?

It's funny. I was the other day, I was looking out the window and I was, God was like, you know, you're not going to have this beauty card all the time. Like when you get older and I'll be beautiful forever, but you know what I mean? I'll be stunning forever, but I won't have the same card that I've been playing recently. Yeah. You know what I mean? Of the looks. And I was like thinking about it too. I was like, wow, that's kind of maybe at some point going to feel like a relief where you're just like, oh, now I'm kind of going through the world and I'm not always kind of searching for the validation or the response or whatever.

the thing that I think I've been really working with, with men, but, um, I know you and Jared well, and your relationship, just so people know, like is one of my like favorite of any couple. Oh, thank you very much. Jared is the best. I know how much you guys have sex during the week and it's never ceased to amaze me. My literally iconic couple, but the way that you guys are together is so beautiful. And knowing that,

you have such a real intimacy and love and you have such a sweetness for one another, but a partnership is like such a joy to see. When you think about teaching, you know, seduction and you think about, you know, the masterclass that you did, how do you feel like it goes for couples versus single people? Like the information. Yeah.

I think that you can borrow from each. Yeah. Right. I think instead of separating it, like this information is for couples, this information is for singles. I think there are some things that are intuitively more applicable to one or the other, but even my first, my second book, the game of desire, that was a singles book, but there were so many tips in there that were integral for long-term longevity in terms of happiness, keeping that spark alive. I'm watching the bachelor right now. And I'm like, Ari,

Everybody who's married 40 years needs to be watching the show because these girls show up in a fucking prom dress coming out of a limo with like a violinist who was flown in from Madrid. And they're still saying, yo, I'm bringing a box of marshmallows because we're going to do the chubby buddy challenge because I got to create that spark.

they're still like okay i'm gonna come in with a sparkly basketball so i can show him that i've got this like fun glam side even the fact that they're on this show and they're getting hair makeup and glam they're still not taking for granted the fact that they have to put in the work to really make that connection to make that spark and so when i talked a lot of people in long-term relationships and they're just like i don't want to work for it then you're like

You got to date your man like he's the bachelor and there's 20 other motherfuckers who are waiting in the hallway to be like, can I just take him for a second, please? Are you guys wrapping up? Can I borrow him? They're like, yeah, that's fine.

That's fine. We were just done. And then confessional. I can't believe. Honestly. But yeah, there are so many things that you can, I think, take from each. And so even in terms of dating app principles, not necessarily how you apply that to dating app, but just how you apply that to enticing your partner, to re-exciting your partner, to getting your partner to want to swipe right on you. I think all of those things are principles that we can apply to both. And if you're

We are open to learning from each. I think that's how we have the richest intimate life. I think actually when I reflect on myself, I am so gifted to have that. So many young people who are in the dating sphere telling me their stories, giving me tips. And I take that shit and I learn from it. And then I can also offer a different kind of wisdom in return.

Yeah, let's I kind of want to break this up into like, let's talk about single and then and then in relationship kind of things we can I know we don't need to separate it, but I think it'd be because there's for me like some different types of information that I think are helpful for people that are in relationships. And I remember being I've been in long term relationships most of my life. There is like a lack of energy that you bring to the relationship at some point or like a lack of

you know, you kind of get comfortable or you lose that spark. Do you feel like you could have chemistry throughout or like what is chem? How does chemistry in our brain chemicals play a role in long term relationships and sort of the reduction in your desire? Yeah, to that I will say that when we're single, we're trying to make love, but we have lust. And when we're partnered, we want to make lust, but we have love.

And I think that the goal is to sort of get to a balance of both. I was talking with Karamo and he was like, in my relationship, it's about fresh and familiar, fresh and familiar. And so you want both. So when I first heard your story of asking that question of like bringing the spark, putting in that effort, it,

took me to like this place where in my past relationship, I was working for BET and I was doing the BET awards. So I was like glam all weekend, getting juiced up all weekend. My partner was coming around with me. It was like all like that glitz and all that, like sort of, uh,

the bachelor feel and then we had a day off we went to the beach and then i was like cool let me put on my basketball shorts a muscle t put my hair in a bun let's go let's vibe out so we're at the beach we're just chilling and then maybe like a couple paces over there was this girl there and she had that sun hat and you know the hair that goes underneath the sun hat and you know the bathing suit that goes with the sun hat that goes with the hair sunglasses that go with the sunglasses and she was just she was so cute yeah and she had a man there and she was like oh

all cuddled up with him and curling. And of course she just had the look. Right. And then my ex looks over and he was like, why can't you be more like that girl? Bitch, because I was in hair and makeup for five hours this weekend. What do you mean? The way that I go from zero to 100, the way I go from troll to like is crazy. Right. That's psychotic. And I also want somebody who wants both sides of me. What did, what was your, back then, what did you think?

I was, I think I literally said, because I'm this girl, idiot, you fucking idiot. Like I can't remember what I said, but it was like something that they said to that, like, no, I'm not that girl. And I love that girl. I thought she was hot too. But there was no part of me that wanted to go get a sun hat and press my hair out. Not at all. Like that's not the vibe that I was in. And I think the vibe that I'm in is very sexy. It is very sensual. And also to be able to get this kind of intimacy with me where I'm comfortable enough to

to be here with you looking like a version of myself that I'm not even ashamed of. Somebody trying to say like,

For you to love me when I look like shit. I don't think I look like shit. I look like a happy, confident, lit up version of myself that didn't have all the things. And so there's like a part of me that says, yes, we definitely want to still put in the effort in our relationship. Also acknowledging where the specific effort is that your partner actually wants. Like in my case, I think for Jared, the effort wouldn't be in like how I physically present myself, but it might be in like how I set the room. Like for him personally,

it's like sensory. So I talk about turn on triggers and Jared's turn on trigger is essentialist. So he likes to have time to shower. He likes for it to be like the sheets are clean. The bed is made. There's music playing. The lights are a certain way where he can really like dive into his five senses. My turn on trigger is direct language.

I just need somebody to be like, yo, those legs are so fucking hot. I want them wrapped around me right now. Take your clothes off. That's what I want. But acknowledging that we have different turn on triggers. So I think it's important to know what gets your partner going and make the effort there when it counts. And also to to find beauty in the times that they don't want to put the effort in, but they're just being and to look at that as an act of intimacy, too. But

But you need the mix for sure. What are other turn on triggers? There is the pursuer and the pursuant where that's like the cat and mouse game. I'm also very big into this. I know. When you're single, I loved this. So you'll go through a period of time where you meet somebody, you guys are on a date, so you clearly like each other. And then you get that click where you're like, oh, no, no, we're attracted to each other. And you know that there's sexual chemistry, but you don't know if sex is going to happen and neither do they. This is my...

kryptonite where I'm sitting across the table from someone and I'm like, what will happen now? My everything. Tell me. Injected in my veins. Yeah. Tell me the last one that happened. Two weeks ago. Can you paint the picture for me? Cause I want to be there. Okay. Trying to think this person was visiting. So I had, I had six days of it. Um, okay.

after dinner had a beautiful dinner long dinner talked about a lot of things opened up and then we're in the car talking after and he's sitting next to me in the car i'm sitting next to it and we're just facing each other and it's so close and it's so dark and we're outside of my place and we're talking and we're staring at each other the car stopped the car stopped we're outside my place and

And I'm opening up about something that's very personal, but like yet we're still being playful and light. And he's just looking at me and I'm just looking at him and we're just like can feel the tension and like the energy. And it was like one of those situations where you look in each other's eyes and you like fall into a portal and you like you can feel, you know what I mean? Like where it's like, whoa.

And then we're just like, you can feel it building. And in the conversation of like, okay, is it going to happen? Because we hadn't kissed yet. And so we're like, oh my God, is it going to happen? Is it going to happen? Is it going to happen? And you're just kind of like in that moment. And it didn't because I'm a little baby girl and I get so scared. Yes. And that's hot. And that's hot. I was like, bye. Yes. First kisses for me are, I didn't even kiss. No, I'm a weirdo. Oh, wow. One thing about me is I'm, I'm, I'm kind of weird.

I like, I hate first kiss anxiety. Wow. So after we kiss, I'm, I'm all about it, but I'll be, do you hate or love the first kiss? Like, I like the tension. I just hate when you don't know what's going to happen, but that's what people like. They're like, I like to not know. I'm like, I don't like when I'm like with someone and they're like, yeah, I'm

Yeah. They go in and they don't tell you. Right. Well, that's what happens in long-term relationships. There's just like a natural assumption that like, hey, we're attracted to each other. That's true. It's 10 p.m. That's true. We're in bed. That's true. Let's get this thing on. I also wanted to, I'm a weirdo too, where I have the idea of how I want my first kiss to be. I want you to be holding my face. I want you to ask me looking in the eyes and say, can I kiss you? And then I want it to happen. And so it happened that way, which was really...

Great. So, but the reason why he didn't get a kiss that night is because he didn't follow that script. Yeah. But later on he intuitively found out that like, Hey, I think I know what the formula is. Yeah. And I was sitting on a chair. He was above me and then was like, grab my face below me, which I really liked. Yeah. And I just like this. I just like the permission to enter my field.

I don't like someone coming into my field without my permission or without me knowing. It's like a weird female fear response, I think. I just, it makes me uncomfortable. If someone's like...

I think that's really hot and encouraging to hear because often people feel that consent breaks the moment rather than heightens the moment. Oh, wow. Well, they're like, it's so weird. I remember I was doing this class for a bunch of teens and I was talking to them about consent, consent being sexy and the importance of asking. I'm like, you know, you could just ask someone before you kiss them. Like, your lips look really soft. Like, can I kiss them? And they're like, eh.

Oh my God. No, that's so corny. That's so like sauce. I never want that. And I'm like, yeah, because you guys are imagining the person that you have a crush on. You're not thinking about the person that you're hanging out with, who you guys are doing homework. Next thing you know, that person gets an idea that you didn't think that you were sending. And then they're all over your face. In that case, you'd probably wish that person took a moment to pause to say like,

I'm feeling something. Are you feeling it? Can I proceed? So I think with them too, and I think with a lot of people, people don't communicate and don't use words a lot. So they're afraid to use the words. It's almost like their body does the thing of like, they're like in their heads are like, I'm going to kiss her. I'm going to kiss her. I'm going to kiss her. And then their body just like lunges forward and is like, I'm going to kiss. But instead of like actually being able to metabolize

the asking because that's when it's real because then you could be rejected too in a way you know you could be like hey can I kiss you that's

like regulated mature like using your words being able to speak I just like to use words yeah and they're also acknowledging too that I think the thing with words sometimes too is that communication is we're not given education on the nuanced ways that you can use it I often encounter this when it comes to sex whenever you talk about talking about sex people immediately go to the negative like great I wanted to bring up this thing my partner's doing that I think sucks

You're like, well, there's a lot of other things you could talk about. And even like in that, in the consent way, like it doesn't have to be as dry as like, can I kiss you as we're sitting here? Of course, it's going to be strange. If I'm sitting here, we're having a normal conversation that I'm like, God, can I kiss you? And you're like, uh, like, that's just, we're not.

We didn't have the car moment. We didn't have the tension build up. We didn't have all those layers. And then maybe I didn't, you know, say to you like, God, like that shirt is like hugging you in all the right places. And then you responded back like, oh, thank you so much. Like your legs look like they give a good hug too. And I'm like, okay.

There's a cue right there. There's something building. Totally. But if you're just coming in with consent dry, then of course it's awkward. So like knowing the different things you can say to build up to the consensual ask that makes it feel like a lubricant versus like a condom from 1905 that's like super dry. That is such a good one because this is one thing I was thinking about within romantic relationships is

as far as seduction and having that chemistry is, I don't know if this is a common theme you see with people, but this is something I experienced where it was like at the beginning was so sexy and fun. And, you know, and I got to experience different sides of me. And then it felt like as we got deeper and more intimate, I couldn't go back to the sexy vixen. It was almost like it felt corny or fake. Yes. And so it was almost like we became so friendly that we would like have, it was like,

friendly and laughy that we couldn't slip back into like the polarity of something else. Yes. A hundred percent. That's why role playing comes into play. I say more. Well, just because you get

But I think people in relationships, they feel like embarrassed to do it with each other. Well, that's why people enjoy themselves more on vacation because you have the freedom to be someone different, right? You give yourself the space like it's vacation me, but like it's not vacation you, that's just you. But it's a part of yourself that you suppress in your day-to-day life because you feel like it won't fit with the flow rather than being like, no, I am the flow and things will fit around me. So I think it happens in relationships too. I talk about this actually recently.

For me, what makes up great sex is authenticity and freedom. And I got a message from a guy because I was just saying, you know, when you have really great sex with somebody, you can give all of you, right? Every fear, every freedom, every fantasy, every repressed thought, like you can actually bring all these things to life.

every smell you can make, every sound your body can make. Like this is the one space that all of you can belong. And if you can give that to someone, they accept you. It's like a sense of acceptance that to me is as close as possible to being accepted and loved by God. However, it's also very terrifying to do that. So this guy messaged me and he was like, I have to be honest with you. I've been married for 30 years. And he's like, I really can only get to that level of sex with sex workers.

I had this dude on this date the other day say that. He's like, I can't have good sex with someone I care about. Only women that I don't care about. I'm like, we're on a date. Because you're a coward. Not in a negative way. Cowardly essentially means that you're disguising or lying about your truth in order to evade reality. Right? Like back in the days, you're like, it's time to go to war. And you're like, I can't. My leg. My leg is gimpy. Right? Like you're altering your truth in order to evade the reality. So...

your reality of who you actually are, of what you actually like, and of what's being called to you at this moment, you don't feel like you can step into that. So you cower away and you pretend to be someone else and you suppress your desires. But when you're paying somebody and there's that airplane thing, you know, beside an airplane, you can honestly be, you can be the most honest with the person beside you versus with the people in your life. Cause I'll never see you again. What do I care? But it's, yeah, it's a prison for that to be a reality. Yeah.

And it's sad because people will never get a chance to know you and you'll never get a chance to really know and accept yourself because you've never seen yourself accepted by anyone else. I feel like, do you feel like that's the case with more men than women? I don't know. Well, you know, what's interesting is I would see women hiding themselves for like longer term in their relationship. I think women settle into hiding themselves more where I think men rebel against it. Maybe, you know,

by cheating. Um, but I think women are more like, well, I can't be me. So that's just my life. And I'll wait till I go on vacation in 20 years for my friend's bachelorette. I'll get super drunk and then I'll be my real self and then I'll work on stage. Yeah. And then when I get caught, I'll just say like that didn't have anything to do with me, but that actually might've been more you than the past 20 years. Wow. Women settling into like, that is so real.

So in relationship, what do you think would be a few ways that people can bring back the seduction, the chemistry, like just bringing back the spark? Like what are some of your favorite tips for that? I love what you just said because it's in giving yourself the permission to bring that side of you back out. It's probably already there. I say this in the masterclass a lot that

These are not necessarily... I give two hours of tips. And mind you, there's going to be some things that you have never heard, some things you've heard before, some things that you hear for the first time that you're not interested in. And all of that is very powerful. But if you don't watch the class and instead it's just a reminder that this part of yourself matters, that this part of yourself exists. Like we spent a long time on the class talking about rivers of confidence. That's what I was just going to say. Which essentially is like, look, I'm not asking you to...

you know, invent the wheel here. What you already have, who you already are, that's seductive. But me reminding you might be the power in itself. So I'd say first and foremost for people, rather than trying to like think of new ways to be seductive, own the ways that you currently already are that you may have just put into storage. I'm literally obsessed with that. What were some of, what are some of those ways for you?

I think for me, I think I only gave myself permission to be like the most outgoing, the most flirty version of myself when I felt like I was desired by others.

And so now I just give myself that permission because it's more fun. So I'd have this like, oh, I'm not pretty. I'm not this. I'm just going to like fly under the radar because nobody wants me to step into the light. But I'm like, I am the fucking light. So wherever I go, no matter how I look, I give myself the permission to be playful in that way. That's actually kind of something pretty new for me. And then I think, too, just like.

I think of different seductive personas, like having a golf bag and you've got different clubs and you're like, is it the nine iron? Is it the wedge? I've run out of golf examples. The putter. The long driver. It's like the big one and the fat one.

The one that's got wood on it. You just have these different things. So you're like, oh, like I know which ones I'm capable of and which ones I'm just not as good at. Like I'm not very good at the coquette, the like teas, like the hot and cold one. Wow. Because I'm just, I'm just turnt up. Yeah. Pussy popping on a handstand or nothing. Yeah, I don't have the like demure. Wow. Do you have like, are you...

Wow. Okay. I think what I'm really gifted at, I'm really gifted at being the natural. So are you. Okay. Where it's the dance like nobody is watching. What's that song? My mom used to lock herself in a room and sing this song on repeat. Oh my God. I hope you dance. Oh yeah. Me and Womack. Yes. I hope you dance. Yes. And I'm so, parents are weird. I should talk to my mom about that phase. No, the way that makes my heart beat.

Because the things that she was going through to do that are so crazy. Lock herself in the office. That's the whole thing. They're like, I need this moment. Boomers are like, fuck, I'm feeling. I only have five minutes. Two of me and Womack. They're like, how have you danced? They have to put their mask back on. And then they're like, did, did, did, did, did, did.

We're us. We're like, yo, man, I'm crying right now. I'm freaking out. Like, it's all good. Like, if you're listening to Hope You Dance, some things, we should ask her. We should ask. Yeah. I should have my mom to be like, what was really going on during that phase of your life? Yeah, be like, baby. Yeah. It's so funny when you realize with your parents that they like had feelings and like, we're like full humans. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I think about that too. I always knew that about my parents. They never let me not know that. Oh,

My parents let me know what this is actually maybe a reason why I'm in this space. Maybe not. But my parents used to bring us into the arguments from the time I was like 10 years old. So we were mediating their arguments like really, really young. So I knew of their feelings. But I guess maybe there was just some things. And then also, I don't know. I don't want to go into my mom's life too much. But there's something about that song, right? That in essence, it's like reverence or like revelry for the person who can do that.

Yeah. Like the person who's like completely free, unburdened, unbothered by other people's opinions and they're just existing. I think I have the ability to drop into that. I think you have that ability too. And so like, that's a huge seductive persona of mine. That's a good one.

And I like am more of a, yeah, I hope you dance. You know what I mean? Like a supporting cast member. Wow. Just somebody else's like moment. So sometimes I feel like if I'm in a group and somebody else held that space, I come home and I'm like giving myself like a C. Like you didn't do good in that social outing. You know what I mean? Same. Right. You didn't even shine. Yeah. I'm like, you weren't the center of attention. Like picking up my eyebrows. Yeah.

I'm like, better luck next time. I know exactly what you're saying. I'm like, hey, everybody. Not better luck next time.

my eyelashes out because I wasn't the fucking star. But then you're like acknowledging that the moment didn't need you. Girl, it doesn't. The moment didn't need you. And it was actually, you were more additive. I'm like lame. Yeah. I'm like losers. But you were more memorable. You were more seductive. You were more influential. That's a good one. By accepting that. By being natural. And not like, because when you're in those moments where somebody else is like dancing and like having their moment, everybody's like in awe of that.

and you're feeling resentful, we're not good actors. That's actually a huge thing I'd like to like just put as a PSA. That's a big one for the masterclass too. Like you're not a good actor. So if you're like, I'm not feeling sexy, but I'm going to give it a try. No. I'm going to cry.

It's very obvious that you don't feel sexy. It's very obvious that you don't feel confident right now. So take your moments and find out what you can draw on, what's authentic for you, lean into what is true for you, and then go with that. And if it's nothing right now, then just decide to be more of a support member that day. But you're not a good actor. So if you're telling yourself like,

I'm just going to let this other person have their moment and I'm going to pretend I'm happy with it. And you're not going to do that all the time. We know. Yeah. But I feel like some, I feel like when I was younger, men didn't really care. Maybe they were so disconnected that they would be accepting of that. But I heard this stat and I'm curious what you think about it. That, um,

So statistically, men get more turned on by visually experiencing other women, but women actually get more turned on by visual, by experiencing themselves in their body. Esther Perel. Yeah. She may have gotten it from a study, but I know that quote from her. Absolutely. And in that, that it's funny because I thought that before I heard the quote and it just unlocked something for me because when I have felt my sexiest, I've

it's within, it's obviously the safety of a man and being seen by a man, but it really is me being in my own beauty and my radiance and my body. And almost like the men experiencing that too. Like, obviously I'm experiencing like a man that I love or a man that I'm connected to or whatever, and I'm attracted to him, but it's more so the space he creates and how we're interacting that turns me on more than like a hot man.

I think that I think it's also societally conditioned that our role is to be hot and sexy and sexually desired. And so when we feel like we're fulfilling that role, we're like, I am worthy of receiving pleasure. A book that I read that I really loved is called The New Psychology of Love. And there's a chapter in there that was called The Politics of Sex and Love and a section about lucky to be loved.

And just how, how many people in society fit into that bracket where they are deemed as like, well, at least someone likes you because hello, right? Beast. Right. Piglet. Little piglet. Well, at least there's somebody, you found someone, count your blessings, right? And people are, many people get that message all day long. And so of course they get into a bedroom setting where they, they don't feel worthy. So the moments that they do,

Because even the most beautiful woman gets that messaging. Totally. Right. So when you do feel like everything's aligned, that's when you feel like I'm worthy of pleasure. I'm worthy of love. Whereas men are just like,

Of course I'm worthy. Of course I'm hot. No, a hundred percent. Yeah. They're like beer bellies. Dad bods are in. Of course you think it's sexy. Honestly. They're like, you know what men I think is overrated. I've been lately. I don't know where I was, but men think that we care. I'm curious what you think about this. This is a left turn and we'll get back on track. I think men think that we like abs more than we do. Oh, I love abs. You're so dumb. I love, but I am definitely like, cause your man is like, I don't have abs.

But he's gone through periods of time of it. It's a lot of work to get abs. It's so much work. I could care less about abs. Oh, I could deeply care about abs. I like shoulders and arms. I just think it's so... Imagine sitting on top of somebody...

And I'm actually wearing my sitting on top of somebody jewelry right now too. Yeah, she's got her chain. I do have it. This is part of the match class. We didn't get to this part yet. But I talk about jewelry, how you can use it for different positions. And I'm selling this line. It's called Comma. But this is my like sitting on someone's face jewelry. If I wore it a little bit lower, it comes with a chain back here. You can see it.

Wait, what? He's got a spine chain. But you can adjust it so the spine chain hits a crack of your ass or the spine chain goes a little bit lower so that these would sit on your nipples. But you're sitting on top of him and like, you'd be riding him, not seeing his face because you got to see his body. And then there's just like abs and pecs and like shoulders and that. Like what? I know. And then you're just like getting to put your hands on them. And that's the hottest thing. So...

Don't let this is don't let don't let you you're giving the dad bods permission. Don't get me wrong. You're still sexy and sensual and everybody's got their things right. Like I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that having sex with a girl with huge tits and a big ass isn't a whale of a time.

Flip it. Flip it. Put that on talk. I'm not going to do it myself. I'm thinking having sex with a woman is a whale of a time. Of course. Okay. Talk to us about the jewelry with sex. Yeah. This was actually something I spoke with my friend, Seema Anand, another sex educator. Incredible. You should have her on the podcast if you haven't. Seema is such a gift, but she has a PhD in narrative writing.

works, narrative works, but she studies ancient stories. And so she has poured over the Kama Sutra and interpreted different ways, but, and also found things that people overlooked. But one of the things in the Kama Sutra is they talk about jewelry that women should wear in order to teach them how to make love. So there is a waist chain or a jingling girdle where it's a belly chain, but it's got all these small bells or gungroos on them. And in essence, the goal is to be silent while you're on top.

Because traditionally we think, oh, let's bounce up and down because that's what, you know, was going to work for the penis. But what we require is to grind back and forth, right? To get that inner and outer clitoral stimulation. And so if you're doing it correctly, your bells should not make a sound. And if you start hearing a jingling, it's your reminder to like prioritize my pleasure and go back and forth again. And so we have an anklet and then we've got the...

the five string necklace and then we have a choker. There's four pieces. To me, that's all four, but each of them has like a different reminder for how to prioritize your pleasure during sex. I also think it's very hot to,

Because when we put on jewelry to go out there in the world, it's to tell the world that we feel special about ourselves, that we're decorated, that we feel like the best version of ourself. And also to treat us a certain way. Like when a queen puts on a crown, it's like, this is to let you know how I should be treated. But then when we get to our intimate moments, we take all those things off. But if anything, I require that treatment more than ever in these moments. So I love the idea of putting jewelry back on. I'm obsessed with that.

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I, yeah, I want to talk about prioritizing your pleasure because I feel like a lot of women live their lives in service of others. And especially you as a mother, you know, know this intimately where they spend their days at work working for the company or, you know, the team or the employees or whatever. And then the kids and, and women don't prioritize their pleasure as much. And sometimes I think for women, it feels like.

task or a chore, how do you think they can kind of change their mindset so that they can prioritize their pleasure? I think you can answer this question. I think it's like your gift to give people this permission that you can't pour from an empty cup. Yeah. Put your oxygen mask on first. I need help with that. It is just such a big, it's, well,

we all are I'm a fraud it's so hard to take your own advice dude I know honestly literally I was like I was telling him I'm like our videographer John I was like my boundaries are just so bad right now he's like what would you tell one of your clients I'm like shut the fuck up I was like don't give me don't ask me a real question that leads to real action didn't you just text me this last week yeah literally did I hear you coaching somebody and give this advice honestly

Yeah, it's really just that. Like, I think that you just have to say to yourself, when I am in bloom, when I am experiencing pleasure, I can be a happier version of myself. I know this. I know so this is one of the greatest gifts of being in love with someone so intimately is I see so many of those like basic tropes like intimacy.

in action because I'm observing him all day and I'm observing him in a way that I don't observe myself. But when he goes to the club, he's a better dad.

Like the next day, he's physically a better dad. When he spent the whole night making music, when we had sex the day before, when he had a moment to himself, whatever it is, I watch him be a better dad. I watch him be more focused. I watch him pour into me more. And times when he is disconnected and really grouchy and very snappy, the thing that I say now is like, get out of the house.

Go, go to the gym, go do something. I got this. Like, and it's not just because I'm like being kind to him. I want it for me. Like, I want you to go to the strip club so you can come back and not be an asshole. Um, and those things like those cues that you understand about somebody, maybe for you, it's not the strip club, but whatever it is that reconnects you to yourself, that reconnects you in your body, that makes you feel like life is abundant and pleasurable and joyful and a space for you and that your life is happening to you. Uh,

Your life is happening because of you, not to you. Whatever does that for you, it helps everybody else. So it's an act of kindness to prioritize yourself. What's happening with the brain when you're first dating versus long-term relationships? Like what is the brain chemistry, the brain chemical difference? Yeah, I was on Jonathan Van Jess's podcast and he was talking about, it was like something stacking, like John stacking. Some researcher who has done extensive work on this, but I'll give you my like...

layman's interpretation of what many psychologists have talked about, but it's just the transition from passionate love to companionate love. And in essence, we're born to bond. We're born to have pair bonds. And that's because it's a huge mechanism for survival. Humans can't run the farthest. We can't climb the fastest. We're not the strongest. So being super social and pro-social is an act of survival. It's like the thing that we can do to survive.

And so what better way to create a pair bond or to create that survival mechanism than to have an investment with somebody that goes beyond just kinship, right? So when you have a romantic bond with somebody, then of course, when you have offspring in that person, there is a duty to each other to stay bonded and to look out for each other's communal responses and communal needs. So from an evolutionary perspective, like your brain wants to be in love so bad because your brain wants to survive.

So that's also my very big fan of like dating multiple people at once, because your brain, if you're just giving it one option, it's like, yeah, this is it. This is the one Sally. I did that the first time I was in this. So I did that for the first time recently and it did help. Yeah. You can watch things from an objective perspective just for a little bit longer. You know what I would notice too is the one that I liked would always text me when I was on dates with other people.

Kind of hot. It was kind of hot. Yeah, that's interesting. It was very interesting. Yeah, I like that. I think that's really cool. I was like, ooh. Ooh. But he didn't know I was on dates with other people. Right. But like, I was just like, oh, this is interesting. Yeah, you felt like energetically like something was happening where they could feel. Yes, energetically because I was gone. Yeah. And then I realized he was an avoidant, so. Yeah. Yeah.

And then, you know, but then you realize that probably before you had gotten too hooked on that person. Yeah. Right. So you realize that in place and it did remind me of my value and my worth. Yeah. So I never thought I'd be able to do that. It isn't my natural preference because I'm so like, but it did remind me and give me confidence of like, no, I'm like, we're like, I'm worthy. I'm hot. I'm desired. So that when the one that I liked wasn't in the full range,

yes, forward movement the way that I would want to, I still felt confident and good. Yes, absolutely. I liked it. I like it. I think it's very helpful for a lot of different reasons. And, um, but we can go into that in a different day. Let me,

The thing that happens in your brain is because your brain wants you to do this thing so bad, it's rewarding you. So it's providing this chemical cocktail of dopamine and adrenaline spikes and norepinephrine and your serotonin levels are raising because your body's like, yes, do this, do this. This is it. And then once you've firmly created that bond, then your body's like, oh, okay, great. They got it from here. And then that chemical cocktail shuts off.

And so now all of a sudden you have to like manually do all of those things. And cause you move into a different phase. I was explaining it, this analogy to somebody that I'm like, imagine that you live in a house and every time you go to the bathroom, the shower turns on to the correct temperature.

And you're like, this is really handy. If you only have to go to the bathroom to go to the shower. If you're going to the bathroom because you work from home now, and every time you go in there, that shower turns on to the correct temperature. You're like, okay, I'm not showering right now. No, no, no.

Thank you.

You're like, you got to work, Jim. Jim, fucking focus. Right. So like as much as it's a little annoying that it now becomes this manual thing that you have to do, then the other side of it is that you get to decide. You get to choose when you have those moments, which means you have to put the work in. But you also don't have to put the work in to stop the flow constantly because life becomes more dynamic. So and Helen Fisher, who's a neuroscientist who just passed away last year, a deep hero of mine.

But she said that if you continue to go through the honeymoon phase with somebody, it would shorten your life expectancy.

Because think about it. When you're in the honeymoon phase with somebody, you have loss of appetite, you have loss of sleep, you have trouble focusing on anything else, right? You get the adrenaline spikes, which in essence is mini panic attacks. Like butterflies are just small panic attacks that are happening. And so if I experienced that with someone that I lived with for a prolonged period of time, that's going to damage your tissue and your heart health.

So you want for the sake of your livelihood to get to a space where you no longer are in the honeymoon phase. And then you get to that space where it is more comfortable, more routine. And then now it's up to you to decide when you want to break up the routine. Wow. That is such a relief because I do think there is that perception that that's the best. But then it's funny because when you're in it, you're like, this is stressful.

Oh yeah. Like I've had somebody, I talk about this all the time and then people in the comments are like, yeah, but aren't there other people who actually have passion the whole time? And then I'm like, yeah, if you're breaking up constantly and there's a lot of drama, you know, then yes, because you're having to constantly rebuild the relationship. So if you're destroying the relationship and needing to rebuild it again, then yes, those chemical cocktails will be turned back on because your brain is like pair bond demolished. We got to fix it. Yeah.

They're like, they just got out of jail again. Let's start over. Butterflies. Butterflies. Butterflies. Dad's home for the first time in 10 years. Butterflies. And they're like, yeah, we've had the passion for 40 years. I know a older couple who's been married for 40 years who I've witnessed closely have a very passionate relationship, extremely passionate. And I've also seen them go through like

10 to 12 divorces. Why? And because that, I mean, that's just it. There's so much passion. And this particular couple got engaged within the first two weeks. So all the like storybook things, like I've got to have you, I've got to be around you. I just need you. They just never matured out of that. And watching that firsthand, I was like, no, thank you. I think I'd just like a best friend. Yeah. Who,

who once in a while I'm like, I'll put on lingerie, you'll do some sit-ups, and then we'll fuck like we're teenagers who can't get enough of each other. But other than that, like, can you change this diaper? 100%. Yeah, I think also it's like when I'm in that phase of that butterflies, I'm like, I have a job. Yeah. I have a company I need to run. I need to have like work. When my brain gets hijacked, I'm like, oh, rats. It's also so fun. It's the best. Yeah. Yeah.

It's the best. It's like staying out of the fantasy. Okay. Let's talk about single people that are single. My brethren, my family, my la familia, me and my single people. I loved the triangle, I think. So I want to talk about how to seduce or how to get someone to talk to you, how to talk to someone when you're out. Cause I feel like a lot of, we'll say women, cause a lot of women listen to the show, um, are out and they, they don't know if it's

if it's masculine, they kind of have a, there's kind of this like masculine feminine conversation happening a lot in our community. And so they feel like it might create a situation where they're in a relationship with a man that like doesn't lead or is weak or whatever. And so they don't know if they should approach, like, what are your thoughts on all that? So they're afraid of approaching because they don't want to reel in a feminine man by accident.

The TLDR. Yeah. Or they're afraid that like they lead everything in life at work, that like the man is not interested in them, that it's going to like create a dynamic where they're going for a man that doesn't really want them enough to say something to them. Yeah. I mean, I would say that approaching people is a skill like riding a bike.

But just because somebody is great at riding a bike doesn't mean they'll be a good romantic partner. They're often like not the same thing. So. Wow. It's just. It's so true. I mean, men that are good at approaching people. I'm like, whoa, wow.

I mean, it's like, you're really good at approaching people. I've seen you when you work at a mall and you work in that center aisle with those carts, you have to get really good at those skills. Do you like soft skin? Yeah. You want to try this hand? So are you going to date that person? Yeah, literally. But that's, they've just been trained to do that and to not take rejection personally. So when people prioritize or really value someone coming up to them, I'm just like, what, what is the value in that? Um,

And really, that just means that that person is very used to it. Or you just want to believe that they don't usually do it, but you're so magical that they got up the courage and the magic skill set to do it for the first time, which that's okay. That's a great point. I'm just going to double click on that and say it again for myself to hear.

When women are wanting the man to approach them, we have to remember that it just means that the man has honed a skill enough and has the confidence enough to approach, but it doesn't mean anything really about his interest or his character. I mean, it can correlate. Sometimes, yes. It's not a guaranteed correlation. Yes, it's so true. Causation and correlation aren't always the same. So it could be a sign that they are whatever you ascribe to be more masculine or more desirable. But it also could mean that person...

Just was really good at approaching women. Yeah, lives at home with their parents and is a narcissist and all the icks, period. But they at one time in their teens worked in that middle section at the mall, gained that skill, got really good at it. You know how I got really good at it? I worked at...

But I wasn't an employee. I worked for like an internet service provider. So in essence, I'm the person in Best Buy where you're like, excuse me, man, where's the batteries? I'm like, I don't know, but who's your internet provider? And then they're talking to me and they're realizing like this bitch is not an employee. And-

And they're like, get out of my way. I'm here for batteries. But I had to go up to people constantly to try to get them to sign up for this internet service provider. So you learn different ways to engage people. You learn what hooks them. You learn how to position your body so they feel trapped. You learn all of those cues that make this thing feel more liquid when you go out and do it in public. So I think that instead of prioritizing that,

I think what you can do is you can make the first move, but it doesn't have to be walking over. What is it? What could be? I mean, I'll just give that in the masterclass. I talk about these tips I learned from a stripper and she's just like invade that person's bubble.

first and foremost. So if I want to hit up John, I'm already in it, right? I'm in his bubble, but I would probably just be like a bit more turned towards him when I'm talking. So it's more natural for me to glance over once in a while, right? I'm having a great time. I'm laughing. I'm like, is John noticing me that way? And then maybe a couple of times I'm talking to you and then I'm here and I'm just, again, I'm like fidgeting towards John so he understands. And then I catch him looking and I'm

I look away and then I keep talking to you and I catch looking again. Second time we're connecting. I look away maybe a third time. I'm like, I put my shoulder over this way. Right. And I'm kind of closing up to him and I'm just seeing like, okay. And John is giving me back what I'm giving. John is rock hard right now. He's hiding. I know that like, and then if I've done all this and John is not coming over to me, then I can be like,

John's a bitch ass. Yeah. John's a pussy. Yeah. Um, but if I've done none of that and I'm like this the whole time and I'm just talking to you and I'm like, John never approached me. So he must not really like me. Like that's just not fair at all. Right. So make it easier for that person. Um,

The next step after that, the stripper says, because strippers are going to go all the way. Because if they're like this, daddy got money or mommy's got some money. So they're going to invade the bubble. Then they're going to make eye contact a few times. And they're going to do a gesture to make that connection. And then they're going to walk over to that person, but not necessarily to them.

If when they're walking over to that person in their direction, they notice that person start to shift things around, like at a restaurant when your food's coming, you're going to make some space for your food. So if they notice that person starting to like shift and square up, like, oh, my food is coming, then they walk over. If they don't, they walk right by.

And so when you walk over now, then you, again, started off with like an engaging question of like, I'll like to come here often, whatever basic thing, like what time is it? Oh, I love your sneakers. Where'd they come from? Something very simple and benign. If that person gives you nothing back, leave. Like you're always looking for like,

Is it worth my time to even be interested in you? That's the question I'm trying to answer. Like, is it even worth it? Do you have what I want? So if I'm giving you, you know, cues and you're not giving it back to me, then we don't have banter. We don't have connection. You can't take the lead. And so those are things I think that people can do to still be in control.

without completely going all the way and feeling like I carried that whole thing. Wow. I love, cause it's like taking a step, seeing if it's there, taking a step. It's like just small steps to kind of not like, and it's small steps of the mind too. It's like, okay, I'm just going to shift my body. I've got a yes. Okay, cool. I'm going to do this. I've got a yes. And instead of like, just being like, I think we were at Soho house and we were at jazz night and you were like,

you weren't hitting on a dude, but I think it was when I first got divorced and I was like, I don't know how to talk to men. And I was like, so nervous. And you were just like, Oh, do they have jazz here every night or like every Thursday to a dude? And I was like, what'd she just do? Yeah. Like, you're just like, Oh, do they have this every night? I was like, stop breathing. I was like, are you done talking to him? I was like frozen in time. I was like,

I've got a really, you know, this is like an omission for me. I put this, I have a community now and I put this in my community that when I go to the gym, I see so many hot guys. You want to talk about my, my biggest, my biggest spot is the gym. It's you could come to my gym one time. No, you have to. Which one? Soho? No, I go to South Pasadena fitness. Okay. I'll go. It's literally like I saw four just fine as hell. And I don't talk to them. What?

I guess it's the earbuds thing. I guess it's the married thing. Is it called earbuds? No, that's the movie. I guess it's you being married. That's the Disney movie. With kids? Girl. Please. I'm still doing my thing. Girl, I know. You keep it fresh. I keep it fresh. I still enjoy my life. I be doing my thing at the gym, but also I realize I'm seeing you fuckers every day. I know. That's the whole thing. But that's the thing is if you just start off, like you just create the, you give it a foundation. Yeah. Right? If you're like,

There was a guy I know at the gym that I saw. And then I was like, you are hitting it today. I'm like, what are you listening to? Because I want that in my ears because I look over at you and I see you going hard. I want the motivation. But I know. But if it was like, why can't I just take that sentence and apply it to the like really hot guy that he was like right there doing abs. I'm doing abs. I could have asked him what program he's doing. So I want to give myself the courage to start doing that more often because I'm very good at doing it when the stakes are low.

when they're like disgusting when it's just like not disgusting everybody's beautiful everyone's beautiful everyone's sexy if they're hot i'm like right so i'm being better at that though i'm caring less but all of it are skills right i'm saying that to say because sometimes i give the advice like start practicing every day one i practice you know who the biggest people i flirt with the most servers baristas oh they know it yeah i murder and then if it's a hot successful man i'm

Hello. Yeah, because one skill, it's like you're gaining the skill, but you're not gaining it like in the context of the thing. You have to increase the stakes and then practice in that stakes. It's true. And then also practice when you do it with the Uber driver, you're doing it without a hope for an outcome. You kind of have to get to that space where you're doing it also for people that you find attractive without a hope for an outcome. Yeah. I've had to metabolize being. That's so sexy.

What? When there is no hope for an outcome. Like when somebody, you can just read it off that person that I think that's why guys in relationships are so hot.

Because they don't care. Like they don't care if you go home with them. They're just, and they'll flirt with you just because they can, or maybe you're just in the same vicinity, but genuinely the entire time, they like really don't care if this goes anywhere. Cause if it does, then all right, I'll just cheat. But if it doesn't, I guess I'll go back to my partner. Yeah. Like this old bag at home. Okay. Dating apps and dating. Tristan Thompson energy.

I think that's what people liked about him so much. He's a child. When I see him on the Kardashians, I'm like, oh, you're a child. But I've heard that he's like so engaging and fun and flirty. He does. Like if you see him just move, like he's very eye contact, very like he's almost like a feminine boy. I don't like that. But I think he's gorgeous. Sweet. Yeah. You know.

No beef. But I think he's just got the like, fuck it. I don't care. Yeah. Like, I really don't. If you like me, you like me. If you don't, I'm just out here to have a good time. But he practices a lot within that playing field. So it's like develop the skills and then start applying it to places where maybe the outcome might feel tender at first. Because even in the beginning, practicing with the Uber driver feels like high stakes for you. Because you're like, if that person thinks I'm creepy or awkward or this or that, then you do that enough times and you realize like, I always get a good outcome. Yeah.

And the outcome isn't like, then they came over to my place. The outcome is just like the ride was more fun or that person like opened up. I learned something new from them. So yeah. That's yeah. That's a good point where it's like putting yourself out there, having a good, that's what I've, I felt like I'm like, I'm just going to put my, cause I remember when I first got divorced, um,

even times when we went out, like I was so uncomfortable around men. And I think what I realized was that I was, um, I was making every relationship with a man transactional almost where it was like, are you my husband or not? Are you going to be a partner or not? I actually didn't have, because I'd been in a relationship for so long, I didn't have a lot of male friends. I had male friends that were gay, but not like, you know, straight male friends. And so I kind of lost that, um,

that ability to be around men and not have it be sexual or just have it be something, nothing, and then maybe become something or just kind of whatever. And so I was like, I would go to every man and be like, are you, are we going to date or not? Are we going to, you know what I mean? And not just like, you're a person that I can learn from. Let's see where this goes. Like, let's have fun. I want to experience myself in flirt. I want to experience myself and funny or playful. And so it's been really beautiful to be. And now I have a lot of guy friends that I can like, I can metabolize, um,

energy with being around a man, but not having it be sexual. Yes. Which is such a, so much fun. Like, and so, and very attractive, very attractive, very attractive. Um, I've always make sure that they want to have sex with me, but not me with that. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm metabolizing my own energy. They're metabolizing. Um, but now being able to like, have fun in the flirt and fun in the desire and just enjoy the experience of like,

I don't know the pleasure and experience of creating an environment or a situation that's going to be fun that like could go somewhere or not. Yes. It's top tier living. Flirting is top tier living. It is presence. It is curiosity. It is creativity. It is funny. It is like...

There's nothing like it. Tanya Bear, clip this and make this the new masterclass commercial. That is it. That is it. That's what I'm teaching. That's what I want to inspire people to feel. And whether you want to feel that kind of vitality only with your romantic partner or you're comfortable sharing it with the world, it's such a gift to experience it. Why not play with that? I know. Okay, really fast. So I'll just say before we continue, I feel drunk.

This is me being in my energy. No, is it? Is it? What did you give me? Is there some alcohol in this? One of the very many supplements that I took. So dumb. It's they're not. This is like it's fermented. This is what it's like to talk to me. Okay. I've been around you before. But people feel drunk. What do you feel? What do you feel like? I just feel like like liquid reality. I promise you everybody that I talked to recently, we fall into a portal and it gets weird. Yeah.

It's, it's, you're, you're laughing, but you're experiencing it. Because I've been around you before. And you don't feel like this? No. That's because you're, you're. I love you. I obviously like you, but I just don't feel drunk. But does it feel nice? You gave me a lot of stuff.

before we started this podcast. But you kind of doped me up on things. I gave her supplements for the first time in her life. Maybe it is your energy. It is my energy. It's your aura. It's my energy. Maybe it's one of the 50 things that you're like, it was like vitamin C. You literally were taking vitamin C. No, there was way more than vitamin C. I put like five of those patches in my mouth. Yeah, it was literally like zinc. Okay, let's go to the trash and see afterwards. Okay.

Or maybe everybody else can just pray that one day they can be in your aura. Don't do it, honestly. Everybody who's trying to quit alcohol should be lying about sides in a portal. I actually feel drunk now too. Okay. So what would you do about online dating apps? What would I do? How would you have the best profile on an online dating app if you're a woman? Oh my gosh. I think that this is advice I gave in the class on Masterclass that they cut out. That happened a couple of times where they're like, this is bad advice. But

I think like your first photo should be the catch somebody's eye. People are in a state of hypnosis. They're just scrolling. Your first photo should be hot, well lit, bright eye contact, or at least like seeing the whites of your eyes. Right. Love that. Something. Second photo, like lean into what is like so uniquely and weirdly you. Like,

Like I swiped right on this guy who just had cool belt buckles in his profile. Cause I was like, I just want to meet him. Right. Or if somebody just had, you know, like a picture of a book that they were obsessed with. I'm like, yo, I love that book. Like doing it like that. Like, I just want to meet my people. So what would my people be interested in? Even if other people would not find that sexy or hot.

So that's a good one because that also filters and also crystallizes because I think what can happen is, is I think for me, I was on apps for a few months, but it was like I had the thought of putting the hottest pictures I've ever taken in my whole life in there. And then it's, it's casting a really wide net, but it's bringing in a lot of people that might not be for me. And so I really liked that sense of a really beautiful picture that feels like you, but then

The second picture is more personality. It's more something you're interested in, something you like, an activity you maybe like to do so that you're filtering out people that are just interested in you for your looks or interested to hook up with you and actually people that are your people that really like the same things and want more. Yeah. I mean, nine out of 10 times, the people who are just there to hook up, they're not going past your first photo and they're not reading your bio. So at the end of the day, you cannot craft your profile to weed out those people because

because they're not... And you also kind of need them too because unfortunately, the more swipes right that you get, the more that the app is like, people like this person, let me present them to more. I mean, the app wants people to be pleased with their experience and so they are going to present you with people who provide a pleasing experience that like makes somebody want to engage. So you're saying that if you... You kind of need the fuckboys. And if you have a better profile that you'll be shown to more people? That, I mean, it's not confirmed by many places, but I can say...

confidently say algorithmically. Yeah, that's like an algorithm thing. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. I work with Bumble and I brought stuff to them many times. They never give me a straight answer. So maybe they're the one place that doesn't. Yeah, I can see that. And or maybe they just feel weird saying that people get grouped into classifications based on how much engagement they get. But every other platform uses that same system, right? So why would they not use that? So I think it's just in your best interest to like... And also accepting that. You're just going to get those people. But you're...

You should spend the rest of your time really trying to like narrow in and find your people. And then I think that dating apps really work when you have a clear system for vetting people because it is a numbers game. So having a first response or first question that's even copy and pasted that you can send to people. What do you mean? Say more. Like whatever your opening move is can be like a...

quirky question. It can be a reference, you know, it can be asking them like, you know, what's their favorite Martin Scorsese film. If that's what you're really into, whatever it is, just so that everything kind of becomes a filter so that by the time you go on a date with somebody, it's only going to be the most valuable use of your time. Uh,

Otherwise, like you're saving a bunch of time being on a dating app already because you don't have to go out. You don't have to get dressed. There's so much time you've already saved. So place that time in other areas of vetting. Wow. For people that are single, how can they practice seduction by themselves without any other person? Can you like have a seductive night at home? Like, is there any way to be seductive or practice some of the things that you teach in the masterclass just by themselves without another person? Yeah.

Well, I kind of want to say yes. And I kind of want to say no, because I,

Yeah. I spoke with this person once whom was just telling me about all the work that they've done and behind them was this stack of self-help books. I mean like sky high stack of self-help books. And they're like, are you talking about me? No, I'm not because you're out there in the world. They're like, I just can't find my person. Like, I don't think anyone's on my level. I don't think anyone's this. I'm like, no, no, no, sweetie. It's just that you have developed a hundred percent of skills, how to be happy and great by yourself. Yeah.

There's a whole different set of skills on how to apply this to other people and to read other people to understand what specifically they require. So I think that, of course, you can seduce yourself and you can create, you know, sensual and sexual energy with yourself. That's just a very different skill than applying it to other people and creating that and cultivating that between other human beings. Yeah.

I think that's so beautiful and I'm grateful you said that. And I think this is the perfect show and the perfect audience for that because these are self-help gurus and people that love self-help. They're junkies in this space. I think we do so much work on cultivating relationship with ourself. And of course, for me, that's such an important thing. But I think that's such a great point that there is a different texture and dynamic and energy that is brought when you have another person. And that's part of why it's so beautiful and why it's so fun. Um,

And I think that when people think about approaching relationships and seduction, it is about that other two and the experience you create together. Yeah. And it's right. It's both. Don't get me wrong. Like, I think that there is definitely beautiful space for both. It's university knowledge versus work life experience. It's not to say that you don't require that academia, but if you just have that and you don't have the work then, but if you also have only have work and you don't actually get

the best advice from the best minds in the world, like the two have to kind of yin and yang and work together. I would say in this specific space, it's probably more lived experience, more practice than it is the books that you've read. But again, I'm trying to think, I'm like, I'm trying to weigh the like natural, like charismatic, like,

I want to say playboy, but I don't want to gender it, but like play person versus the pickup artist. And the pickup artist is all like structure, rules, books, scripts, but also their push to do social experiences. And they, I think they probably get similar results, but.

Yeah. That was, have you ever read pickup artists? Oh, I was going to say, yeah, I've read them. I'm sat with some, I like, I want to, I want to learn from everybody. I would love to watch. I've probably been approached by a pickup artist. Yeah, of course. For sure. I don't know if they still exist the way that they used to. Yeah. Do they? I don't know. Do you know who was heavily into pickup artistry? Stephen Bartlett.

Say no more. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Isn't that fascinating? Yeah, I could see that. Right? It's kind of like NLP a little bit. It's like pick up artists, you know what I mean? Well, they, I know pick up artistry is like, it's heavily based on NLP. That's like woven into their techniques and tactics. But the kind of person who feels like I need to go to school and get a guru help and advice. I need like a step-by-step manual for how to be desirable or how to get who I desire in this world. Yeah.

It's a very particular... I think that there was a time where it was cool to admit that. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, admitting that is crazy. Right. Because I think people assume then you get a lot of women. But then...

is that so different for taking my class and masterclass? Yeah. You know what I mean? Tell us about the class. I just watched it this morning. It's so beautiful. Oh, thank you. And I love that you have couples in it, you know, like real life couples and examples, which was so interesting for me to watch. Cause I'm like, oh, they're going to be talking about this after. Yeah. You know what I mean? So much of what you talked about, I was like, this is the tip of the iceberg for this conversation. Really? Yeah. Literally. They're like, Oh, I didn't know you said that because I was thinking they literally like, yeah, it's

So tell us about the masterclass. It's such a joyful, fun, flirty exploration into everything that I have learned in the past 20 years crammed into two hours. Episode one is all things sex. A spot.

prostate orgasms, different positions, jewelry that you can use to enhance your sexual experiences, different toys that I suggest buying, the importance of curating experiences over consumerism. And all of that is in episode one, self-pleasure, self-sex, releasing yourself from social sexual scripts that tell you the kinds of things that you can like or be attracted to. And then

Saying no also is a big part of episode one, like getting to a space. I use the Eisenhower decision matrix for people to assess, especially like new parents, for example. When you get that space, you're like, we gotta have sex. We gotta have sex. And when you put it on a grid, you realize like sex is extremely important to us, but it's just not urgent right now.

And if we know that, we can take the pressure off while still honoring it for whenever we do have the capacity to do so. So that's all episode one. And episode two is like seduction and flirting, dating apps, tips, and...

how to be influential and how to be memorable. I think seduction at its core is that your presence lingers on long after you're gone. I think that also takes a lot of pressure off for you to make the first encounter, the first exchange, right? Like when you're genuinely seductive, I can meet you and talk with you and be memorable and not see you again for six months. And maybe we don't do the exchange until a year later, but we've always stayed in each other's mind. And that's really powerful too.

Wow. That's huge. Because I think about the people that, yeah, I'm like, there's people that I'm like, wow, that was a great encounter. And it didn't last. Yeah, exactly. At that precise moment. So I think that that's sort of like... He's actually married. So I'm waiting for the divorce. Right. And then there you go. And then he put in the work. Sometimes your man's married and you got to wait. Yeah. And he's not giving Tristan Thompson. I'm kidding.

No. Why can't you? Why can't that be real? My dad grew up in Guyana and in Guyana, they used to read the obituary every day to see what jobs were available. It's like, oh yeah, Cliff died. So let me go see if there's a spot now. So I, why not? Yeah. I pray that there's a lot of people waiting for me to fall down an elevator shaft to take my man. Yeah. That's so real. That's such a nice compliment. That's my actually number one kink is when other people want my man. Yeah. I'm like,

That's my man. That's my... Yeah, so prey on that wife's not downfall. Play her getting another man. Yeah, maybe she trips into a fourth dimension and never to be seen. Maybe she's drunk and she falls into a portal. I might be there right now. Jaren, I'm not coming home. It's actually Jaren. I was like, I'm actually going to kill you after this. That was Trump's...

Okay, guys, the masterclass is out now. It is so good. I actually just got the subscription for it. I watched it all morning. There was so much in there that I didn't know about. I didn't know the G spot wasn't real. First of all, I didn't know about the A spot. The couples was so interesting. Having Jared in there was so interesting. And you're just such a beautiful teacher. It was like stunning. So highly suggest watching my babe on masterclass. It's so good. We also have other episodes with you. I think like two over the years. Two. Yeah. Two. Third. Yeah. And so you guys can listen. Just search Shan almost 30 and we love you so much. We'll see you soon.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Shan. Again, you can find Shan on Masterclass now. I'm so proud of my girl, The Art of Intimacy. Amazing. Thank you all for listening. You're the best. We will see you soon in person. We are going on tour for our new book. You can learn more at almost30.com slash book. Grab your book now. Pre-order. You will get some amazing goodies that we're super excited about. And we love you. We'll see you on the next one. We'll see you soon. Love you guys. Bye. Bye.

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