We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode Classic Debate: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

Classic Debate: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

2025/3/9
logo of podcast Intelligence Squared

Intelligence Squared

AI Deep Dive Transcript
People
A
A.A. Gill
G
George Monbiot
Topics
A.A. Gill: 我是一个极端的自由主义者,我认为人们应该自由地选择吃什么。吃肉是人类进化史上的一个重要里程碑,它促进了合作,并使我们能够养活更多的人口。我们只吃少数几种动物,因为只有这些动物能够适应被驯养的生活。许多被驯养的动物,例如牛和鸡,都与人类达成了某种共生关系。我不关心动物在被宰杀前的痛苦,我认为这是一种虚荣心。我更关心的是动物在活着的时候是否得到了良好的照顾。我不认为植物性饮食比肉类饮食更健康,并且很难用植物性食物完全替代肉类蛋白。食物文化对人们的身份认同非常重要,不能轻易被抛弃。我反对任何形式的规则,包括“无肉星期一”。 George Monbiot: 畜牧业正在严重破坏自然环境,它是全球野生动物和栖息地丧失的主要原因。肉类生产效率低下,消耗大量的土地和资源。减少肉类消费是减少对环境影响的最简单方式。我们不再需要像祖先一样吃肉,我们已经找到了其他方式来养活自己。我关心的是动物在生前的生活条件,而不是它们的死亡。在工业化养殖中,动物们遭受着极其糟糕的待遇。减少肉类消费可以像18世纪抵制糖一样,减少全球环境破坏。我们有责任为子孙后代留下一个可持续发展的地球。

Deep Dive

Shownotes Transcript

This event took place on the 31st of October 2016 at the Royal Institution in London.

CHAIR: Afua Hirsch - Writer and broadcaster

SPEAKERS FOR THE MOTION: AA Gill - The Sunday Times’s star restaurant and TV critic

AGAINST THE MOTION: George Monbiot - Guardian columnist, environmental campaigner and author of Regenesis: Feeding the World without Devouring the Planet

Fancy a nice juicy steak? Most of us do from time to time, and we don’t trouble our consciences too much with the rights and wrongs of eating meat. Others, while vaguely aware that we ought to go vegan, just can’t face the rest of our lives denying ourselves bacon, beef, butter etc. But once we start looking into the arguments for veganism, it becomes difficult to justify the omnivore diet.

Take the environment for starters. Livestock farming has a massive impact on the planet, producing around 14% of carbon dioxide equivalent emissions according to the UN. That’s roughly the same as the total amount of global transport emissions. Animals are extremely inefficient processors of the maize and soya that farmers grow to feed them. If we ate those crops ourselves instead of feeding them to livestock, we could free up hundreds of millions of hectares of rainforests, savannahs and wetlands where wild animals could flourish instead.

And then there are the arguments about animal welfare. Recent scientific research indicates what many of us feel we already know – that animals have complex emotional lives not dissimilar to our own. Intensive farming – the kind that confines hens, pigs and cattle to squalid indoor pens – thwarts their instincts to move around freely and build social bonds with their group. Tens of billions of animals exist in this way, and that’s before their short lives are ended in the horror house of the abattoir. As for those who say a vegan diet isn’t healthy, elite athletes who have made the switch, including world tennis No 1 Novak Djokovic, prove you don’t need animal protein to excel at the highest levels in sport.

On the other side of the argument we developed as omnivores and every human culture has its culinary traditions, based on the taste and aesthetics of meat and dairy. Do we really want to live in a world where there is no beef Wellington or cheese soufflé? As for the environmentalist arguments, omnivores now have some serious eco-credentials behind them. A study at Cornell University shows that a diet that includes a few small portions of grass-fed meat a week may actually be greener than eating no animal products at all.

And when it comes to animal welfare, rather than abandoning animal products altogether, couldn’t we do more good by pressing for genuinely transparent labelling of our meat and dairy? If consumers really know what they are getting, fewer people might be willing to buy the £3 chicken produced in the barbaric conditions of the agricultural industry. As for a vegan diet being healthier, we should stop giving airtime to self-appointed health experts and lifestyle bloggers. Some dieticians argue that there are nutrients we need that we just can’t get from plants alone. Yes, we can get calcium from kale and iron from beans, but the quantity, quality and bio-availability of such elements are far better when we get them from animal rather than plant sources.

--

If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.

For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:

  • Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts

  • Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series

  • 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events

 

... 

Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:

  • Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts

  • Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices)