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cover of episode What Can Ancient Civilisations Teach Us About Survival? With Lizzie Wade

What Can Ancient Civilisations Teach Us About Survival? With Lizzie Wade

2025/5/11
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Intelligence Squared

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Caroline Dodds-Pennock
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Lizzie Wade
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Lizzie Wade:我将‘启示录’定义为一种剧烈的集体性损失,它从根本上改变了一个社会的生存方式和认同感。这并非终结,而是一种转型。通过研究古代文明的崩塌,例如玛雅文明的衰落,我们可以看到,所谓的文明消失并非彻底灭绝,而是经历了转型和延续。人们在灾难后幸存下来,重新组合,并适应新的环境。精英阶层和普通民众的经历可能大相径庭,精英阶层的记录往往掩盖了普通民众的生存策略和情感体验。我们需要更全面地看待历史,关注被边缘化的群体,才能更准确地理解历史事件。我们不应该只关注灾难本身,更应该关注灾难后的社会重建和转型。面对未来的挑战,我们可以从历史中汲取经验,学习如何适应和重建。 我们对文明崩塌的叙事过于执着,忽略了幸存者和后续发展。考古学研究表明,许多文明的衰落并非突然消失,而是经历了一个漫长的转型过程。精英阶层的视角往往占据主导地位,而普通民众的经历则被忽视。现代考古学工具和方法为我们更好地理解过去提供了可能性,例如饮食同位素分析、古代DNA分析等。通过这些方法,我们可以更全面地了解过去社会,关注被边缘化的群体,例如妇女、儿童等。 研究历史上的灾难事件,可以帮助我们认识到人类并非孤单,并从中学到应对未来挑战的经验。面对气候变化等挑战,我们不应该感到绝望,而应该从历史中汲取力量,学习如何适应和重建。历史上许多社会在经历灾难后,反而更加团结,创造出新的文明。 气候变化是一个缓慢的‘启示录’,它对个人来说可能难以察觉,但在长期来看,它会带来巨大的社会变革。历史上也有一些社会变革发生得很快,例如黑死病后的社会转型。黑死病导致欧洲人口锐减,但同时也改变了社会结构,赋予了普通民众更多的权力和选择。 面对当今的危机,我们应该关注社会不平等问题,并利用历史经验来促进社会公正。历史上的灾难事件往往会暴露社会中存在的深层次问题,例如健康差距、种族歧视等。我们需要正视这些问题,并采取措施来解决它们。对历史灾难事件的回应和选择,决定了社会转型的方向。 Caroline Dodds-Pennock:对过去社会的研究应该关注人们的情感体验,而不仅仅是行为。历史上的灾难事件并非只是客观事实,更是人们情感和心理体验的集合。我们需要尝试理解人们在面对灾难时的恐惧、希望和梦想。考古学研究虽然不能直接揭示人们的情感,但可以通过对遗迹、遗物的分析,以及对历史文献的解读,来推测人们的情感体验。我们需要运用历史的视角来理解当今社会面临的挑战,并从历史经验中汲取智慧。

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Shownotes Transcript

What if apocalypse isn’t the end of the world - but a chance to remake it?

On today’s episode we’re joined by science journalist Lizzie Wade to explore Apocalypse, her bold new book about how catastrophe has shaped humanity’s past and can forge more just futures.

Drawing on archaeology and anthropology, Wade reframes collapse not as destruction but transformation - revealing how people have endured pandemics, climate shocks, and civilisational upheaval before, and what their stories can teach us now.

Joining Wade in discussion is global historian and author of On Savage Shores: How Indigenous Americans Discovered Europe, Caroline Dodds Pennock.


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