How to be happier, with Cassie Holmes
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Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good morning. This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's episode is going to be a longer one, part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.

So today I'm delighted to welcome Cassie Holmes to the show. Cassie is a professor at UCLA's Anderson School of Management. She is also the author of the book Happier Hour. So Cassie, welcome to the show. Thanks so much, Laura. It's a treat to join you. Well, I am so excited to have you as well. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself?

Yeah. So I am currently a professor at UCLA in the business school. And I say currently because I started my career as a professor back in Philly, where I was closer to you geographically. And

But throughout my career, I've been studying happiness and looking at what's the role of time and how does that play into things. And the last, no offense to us academics, but

but nobody reads their academic papers. And so about six years ago, I was like, well, gosh, there's actually a lot of insight from the research, not just my own, but from across the field. So I decided to pull it together and develop a course that I've been teaching to our MBAs and executive MBAs at UCLA called Applying the Science of Happiness to Life Design.

And when I saw the impact on my students, both how they, you know, their happiness and satisfaction and fulfillment during the course, but also hearing from them years following the course, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is really exciting. And then when I was approached to write a book, I was like, yes, because then more people who gets it in my 10-week course can gain from the learnings.

And so I wrote Happier Hour, which came out a couple of years ago, which is sort of captures

both the research as well as the assignments that I give my students, some of which are very much like those that you encourage in your work, Laura. And so folks can sort of have some tools to beat distraction, expand their time and focus on what matters most. I love it. Those are all things we are very excited about here on this show. And I will confess that I've actually read some of your papers, Cass.

You and like three others. Exactly, exactly. But I want to talk about some of your research because I think a lot of it is very fascinating and does have practical implications for people. So a couple of them just I pulled out of Happier Hour that I think would be really helpful for people. One of my favorite ones.

is about treating our weekends like a vacation. So talk about that. What does that mean? And why is that a new mindset that people might want to adopt? Yeah, I love this work because it is so...

to implement. And I continue to, and it sounds like others do as well. And so it was actually sort of spurred out of the research that shows that taking vacation is so important for creativity and even satisfaction and engagement at work. But so often people don't take vacation because they don't feel like they have the time or the money. Well, the

They absolutely should. And it is something to devote time to. And even in the Gallup data, the people's responses to whether they prioritize time for vacation, it is a has a very strong relationship with satisfaction in life and enjoyment. But

Given that we don't always feel like we can take the time, we were actually like, well, what if we actually made more of the time off from work that we do have? Like every week, most Americans get the weekends, quote unquote, off from work, but it doesn't feel like the break that it maybe should. And so we ran experiments.

that showed this effect. So in the experiment, we randomly assigned, and it was among full-time American workers, on a regular Friday leading into a regular weekend, we gave some, these set of instructions, treat this weekend like a vacation.

And then we told others, treat this weekend like a regular weekend. That is it. That is like as simple as it is. And then on Monday morning, when they were back at work, we followed up and we measured their happiness again. And what we found that those who were instructed simply to treat their weekends like a vacation were significantly happier when they were back at work on Monday. Not only that, they enjoyed the weekends more. Yeah.

And then we're like, well, why? Like, why is it that just telling someone to treat the weekend like a vacation or individuals telling themselves to treat the weekend like a vacation versus a regular weekend? And what we found was that there were some shifts in how people spent their time. So people did do a little bit less work or housework. They spent more time in bed and eating like

you know, is reflected. I mean, hey, you're on vacation, you may as well, right? But what was really interesting was that it wasn't those changes in the activities people spent their time on that actually predicted their enjoyment or even their happiness on Monday. What did was their mindset. Those who were treating the weekend like a vacation were more focused on the present moment. They were more mentally engaged in the activities they were doing. And what I think is driving that is that

that sort of doing mode that propels us through the week of like getting tasks done, checking them off the list, then carries over into the weekend. So then even if we're doing like social activities or going to your kid's soccer game, it's still a task that you're moving through and checking it off the list.

But when you're treating it like a vacation, what that does is it shifts you out of that doing mode and allows you just to be, you know, it gives you that sense of like, you know what?

Yes, you might be at the soccer field for your kid's game, but it's not about a task that you're getting done. You're like, oh, my God, here I am sitting outside. Folks are around me cheering for my kid. Like just that vacation mindset licenses you to just take a break and chill out and be in the moment. And it's interesting because even like digging into the data itself.

We saw, we asked people to, in one of the studies to like reconstruct, tell us what they did sort of at each part of the weekend. And in both conditions, the vacation condition and the regular weekend condition, there were moms that were, had cooked pancakes for their family on Saturday morning. But the way they described it was so different. The,

That and the regular weekend was like, and I made pancakes for my family. It was like absolutely a task. The other mom and the one who was treating it like a vacation, she's like, and we had pancakes for breakfast and we all sat down and it was just like, just like we're on vacation, which again, that same activity is experienced very differently when you're treating it like a vacation. Yeah.

Absolutely. Well, fascinating stuff and a very practical thing for people to try this weekend. In fact, we're going to take a quick ad break and then I will be back with more from Cassie Holmes. Hey, Before Breakfast listeners, we know you're all about making the most of your time. So here's a question. What if your lunch break could actually help you level up? Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman. Every Tuesday, Ken sits down with top experts,

to unpack the real questions that help you thrive at work, at home, and in your own head. We're talking questions like, what are the 10 best foods for your memory? How can you ask for the raise you want and actually get it? What's the key to finally changing your life? If you love thoughtful advice and practical strategies, just like you get here.

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Well, I am back with Cassie Holmes, who is a professor at UCLA's Anderson School of Management, where she's taught a very popular class on happiness. She is also the author of the book Happier Hour. So we're going through some of the greatest hits on the research here. Cassie, another one of my favorite ones that you talk about in Happier Hour. You had a study where you had some people help students edit essays.

And you had other people get a windfall of free time. Like, they were just allowed to leave without doing whatever experiment they had come in to do, right?

And I believe you found some counterintuitive result about how busy or how much time people felt they had with these two separate conditions. So maybe you could talk a little bit about that. Yeah. And I think it's so important, particularly for your listeners who I'm sure feel very time poor, like they don't have enough hours in the day to get it all done. And when we feel that way, one of the consequences is that we don't

spend the time to help others out, right? There is when we feel like we're busy and in such a hurry, we don't take the time to help others. But in this work, we found that actually giving time can give us a sense of having more time, which is counterintuitive. Why does it happen? Well, in this study that you showed, for example,

talked about is that we had some people give their time to help someone by editing their essay. Others got a windfall of time. And in other studies, we had them not only get a windfall of time, but also compared it to like spending time on themselves. So spending time on someone else, spending time on yourself. And we found that those who spend time on someone else felt

felt like they had more time. And the reason is because it increased their sense of self-efficacy. That it's like when we help someone out, we're like, oh my gosh, I accomplished a lot. It was only five minutes or 15 minutes, and in some cases 30 minutes, but like I accomplished a lot with that time. And then it increases your sense of how much you can accomplish with your time more generally.

giving you a sense that you have sufficient time to accomplish what you set out to do because time poverty is a subjective feeling. It is how confident you feel like you are able to complete those tasks that you set out to do. And by increasing your sense of accomplishment and efficacy and confidence that you can complete your tasks, it lessens that sense of constraint from time poverty.

Now, I will say a couple of caveats is if you give away so much of your time that you really have like none left.

then I don't think it's going to have this effect. Like there is research that shows that, you know, long-term caregivers feel very depleted and lower sense of satisfaction because their time is not their own. Or if that time is taken from you, not that it's given, I also don't think you'll have this effect. It's really the sense of,

Spending your time on something that makes you feel like you've accomplished a lot and that translates into feeling like you have more time. More recently, exactly along with that mechanism, I ran a study where we showed that the same thing happened with exercise. So exercise is one of those things that we are very quick to neglect when we don't feel like we have a lot of time.

But in a study that we ran among my MBAs, we had them as one of the class assignments one week was to exercise because that is a significant mood booster. And so they're to carve out time to exercise properly.

And then what we did was we measured their sense of time poverty or how much time they felt like they had either before the exercise or after the exercise. And what we found was that after exercising, people felt like they had significantly more time than before exercising because what the exercise did is it was like, oh my gosh, it gave them the sense like I've accomplished something and gives a greater confidence in how much you can accomplish with your subsequent day.

So I think these are both helpful sort of things to keep in mind that when we feel time poor, we do neglect time.

activities that really fuel us, right? Fuel us, give us that energy, exercise, really sort of being kind to and doing something for another person. And yet, even though we tend to sort of neglect them, if we go ahead and spend time on these particular activities that really fuel

increase our sense of confidence and accomplishment, that can lessen our sense of time strain. Absolutely. Yeah, I would say that people who

do a lot with their time often feel like they can do a lot with their time. I mean, because the evidence is there. They have, you know, so it's really a self-reinforcing cycle. And just one more, because I think this is also a good one, too. It's about making time feel more precious by calculating how much is left.

And that often we can have a different mindset on an everyday activity by realizing how close to the end of it we might be. Yeah. And I think this is really important coming out of my research where we found that there's extraordinary happiness available to us in ordinary moments. Yeah.

But so often we sort of miss those moments that are right there in our days and how we're spending our time already because of hedonic adaptation, right? That is our propensity to get used to things over time. So when you are doing the same thing again and again, you're with the same person, they stop having as intensive an emotional effect on us. And so that's,

It's good that we're adaptive in the face of negative circumstances, but recognizing that we also adapt and don't notice the good stuff, we have to figure out ways to offset that tendency so we can continue to feel joy from life's joys. So one way to do that is to count your times left because just because you're

It's an everyday type experience now. It doesn't mean that it's going to continue to happen every day and certainly not like it does now. And so an example that I have shared is,

It's my coffee dates with my daughter, Lita. So this is a weekly, we've been going on our weekly coffee dates since I want coffee on the way of dropping her at her preschool. And now it's like a half hour where the two of us spend together. You know, she has her hot chocolate. I have my flat white croissants. And it's just the two of us chatting for a half hour. Now she's nine. Yeah.

Well, we have our weekly coffee dates now. When she turns 12, I suspect she'll probably want to go to the coffee shop with her friends instead of me. So it's not going to happen every week, you know. And then she's going to go off to college and then she's going to move to New York or whatever it is.

And so I did this calculation of calculating of our total times of going on coffee dates, what percentage is left, realizing that we have about 36% of our coffee dates left. And that's much less than half. What that does, and she's only nine years old, right? What that does is it motivates...

me to make the time to in those busy weeks to make sure I make the time. But as importantly is it makes me pay attention because knowing that these times are limited makes me put my phone away. So that source of distraction or also what, you know, my constant to-do list that's running in my head, like always like, Oh, what's next? What do I need to, but like, since I know that there's so few left, um,

or that they are in fact limited, it totally makes me pay attention because this is the time that matters. And so I have like in, I've had my students calculate times left and some of the things they've calculated, like dinner with their parents or taking their dog for a walk.

or having dinner with their family, their kids sitting around the table and recognizing that these things that are just the fabric of our lives are precious. It makes us show up fully and fully and it totally makes us pay attention and get and experience the joy that is available to us in that time already. Absolutely.

Absolutely. So much of life is just about paying attention to what is there, to the good things that are already surrounding us. We're going to take one more quick ad break and then I will be back with more from Cassie Holmes. Hey, Before Breakfast listeners. We know you're all about making the most of your time. So here's a question. What if your lunch break could actually help you level up? Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman. Every Tuesday, Ken sits down with top experts,

to unpack the real questions that help you thrive at work, at home, and in your own head. We're talking questions like, what are the 10 best foods for your memory? How can you ask for the raise you want and actually get it? What's the key to finally changing your life? If you love thoughtful advice and practical strategies, just like you get here.

My dad works in B2B marketing, but I never really knew what he was doing.

I never really knew what that meant. Then one day my dad came by my school for career day and told everyone in my class he was a big ROAS man. Then he just kept saying things like, "The bigger the ROAS, the better," over and over. My friends still laugh at me to this day. I think it means calculating a return on ad spend. One thing's for sure, I'll be known as the ROAS man's kid for the rest of my days. Why couldn't you just be a fireman or a lawyer?

Why? You ruined my life, Dad. Not everyone gets B2B, but LinkedIn has the people who do. And with ads on LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people based on job title, industry, likelihood to buy, and more. Start converting your B2B audience into high-quality leads today. We'll even give you $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash customer to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash customer. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.

Restrictions apply.

Visit Jewel Osco dot com for more details. Well, I am back with Cassie Holmes. We've been talking about research on ways to be happier in our everyday lives. So, you know, this is a time management and productivity podcast, Cassie. So I'm very curious if you have any routines in your day that help you be more effective. Yeah. Well, we've already talked about mindset and actually the role of exercise. Yeah.

So one of the things that I, and I keep having to remind myself and experience the benefits of, it is starting the day instead of picking up my phone and sort of responding to emails is asking,

like, you know, getting my sneakers on and going out for my morning run. Because that time that I dedicate to myself, I have as a thinking, it sort of absolutely shifts my approach to the rest of the day, even though I'm like, Oh my God, do I have time? Well, when I do it at the first thing in the day, it absolutely makes me feel like I have more time. And it sets my mode for the rest of the week. And

And another thing is so protecting that time for exercise and for me, early morning is key. Another thing is carving out the time and putting my fun away, closing out of email for that person.

those work chunks where I really need want to dig into the part of my work that is so important to me, that's in line with my purpose, that requires deep thinking. It's not just reacting to emails. It is like where I actually need to think. And I protect the time in my calendar and I protect my physical space to not have the interruptions so that I can get into those flow states and

And that is when we are in those flow states where most creative, most productive. And when we come out of it, we feel so great.

And what's really sort of a theme around all of my work is that, you know, it's not about how much time. It's really about the quality of the time. And so making the quality of that time for that important work, protecting it so that I can sort of enjoy it and make the most of it. Because

the rest of the work day is filled with stuff, right? Like the email, the meetings, but this at least makes sure that I feel like I have been productive, that I am sort of

making progress towards the things that really matter to me. Do you tend to do that first thing when you come into the office or is it a particular time of day that you protect? I'm curious how you do that. Yeah, for me, it is in the morning. So it is my exercise and then I get ready, you know, like, and then I get dressed and then

I start off the day and I have that first three hours and I can't do this every day because there are other days where I do have actually meetings. But I know that I'm a morning person. I know that that is when my mind is working at its best. But the research shows that some people are actually night owls. So I think the thing that's most important is for folks to identify when they're

Within their schedule, can they actually protect the time and not getting those distractions, but also hopefully aligning it when your brain is most on and it's sort of fitting with the energy that you have for that particular task. I mean, you know, my...

Other times that I want to be super engaged, like my date, you know, with my daughter, Lita, I don't want it on Monday morning because I'm in the sort of go mode and productivity mode. And so it's actually for those, it's more important to me. I like sort of particularly place it.

in a morning and a time that I actually do feel like I will be more likely to settle in and down. And so it's now it's on a weekend morning. I used to be on Thursday mornings. Yeah. But it's all about knowing your schedule and knowing yourself and making proactive choices about where you put these things.

Totally. Yeah. And it's like, we don't have control over all of our time, but just for those things that are really important is being very thoughtful and intentional and protecting that time because other stuff will fill in, right? It's like, for me, the afternoons are like... The email is always there. And I'm sure there's always students who have something that they want. So yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, one thing I always ask guests on this show is what's something you've done recently to take a day from great to awesome? I'm like embarrassed to share this, but... That probably means it's going to be good. I have started doing tennis lessons on...

Thursday morning. And I literally like start my workday an hour later, but it is so...

It makes me like it is so fun and it is an activity that is the only reason I'm doing it is because it's fun. And then it forces me into the flow state. I'm like learning a skill. I'm moving the exercise like all of these. I'm outside. All of these components make it like I feel guilty because I'm like embarrassed to share it because I'm like, oh, no, it's something that is just for fun and just for me. But it's.

It has made me so joyful. And then when I show up to work, I'm like, I'm ready, you know, and I'm much nicer and kinder and more proactive to my colleagues so they benefit. And then when I'm like home at the end of the day, like kids, I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, here we are investing in their skill development and all these fun, enriching activities. I'm like, yeah.

I'm going to invest in my tennis player. Exactly. Yeah, one of the things we often talk about on this show about, you know, it take one night for you, but it could be one early morning for you as well. But to do something that's not work, it's not taking care of family. It's something that's uniquely for you and that you find intrinsically enjoyable. And it changes your whole life. Like totally once a week. That's all it has to be. It just it changes everything about it. So, Cassie, what's something you are looking forward to right now?

I am looking forward to, well, I have mixed emotions. I think I was mentioning to you, my son is graduating from his elementary school and I am looking forward to the opportunity to sort of celebrate him with these things.

kids that he's been in school with since they were like four, you know? So it's this, it's a, it's an occasion around time of how much they've grown and a celebration of the time we've had together. And also as sort of reminder, the bittersweet is like, you know, when he starts middle school, he will, he'll,

wave at me goodbye and I will be less involved in the, you know, campus, but it's, it's the sort of transition, um, of growth as well as celebration of the time that we've had. Absolutely. Well, I'm sure it'll be amazing. So Cassie, where can people find you? Um, well, my website, Cassie M. Holmes. Um, I am on LinkedIn. Uh,

I am not on other social media because I don't enjoy it. So I don't spend my time there. We want to make sure we have happier hours by not doing that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Cassie, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback about this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura at lauravandercam.com. In the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening. And here's to making the most of our time. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at laura at lauravandercam.com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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