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cover of episode Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins, "Did It Happen Here?: Perspectives on Fascism and America" (W. W. Norton, 2024)

Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins, "Did It Happen Here?: Perspectives on Fascism and America" (W. W. Norton, 2024)

2024/12/8
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Caleb Zakarin
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Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins
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Caleb Zakarin:本书《Did It Happen Here?》对美国校园、杂志和社交媒体上关于法西斯主义的辩论进行了概述,该辩论始于唐纳德·特朗普当选,本书总结了关于法西斯主义是否已来到美国的各种主要学术观点。 Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins:关于法西斯主义的辩论是理解美国社会真正病灶的罗夏墨迹测验。本书的创作灵感主要来自作者在推特上观察到的关于法西斯主义的激烈辩论,最初的目的是为了课堂教学,为学生理解他们所生活的这个世界提供资源。创作动机还包括应对当前历史学专业面临的危机,例如招生减少和就业岗位减少。“法西斯主义”一词的含义并非不言自明,学生们最初难以理解其内涵。“法西斯主义”一词是一个充满情感的词,常被用来完全否定对手的政治立场。本书第一部分收录了汉娜·阿伦特、雷蒙·阿隆等人的经典著作,旨在提供对法西斯主义的不同理解。托洛茨基对美国存在真正的法西斯运动持怀疑态度,因为他认为美国的经济进程和工人运动尚未达到欧洲的水平。许多人现在依靠汉娜·阿伦特的著作来解释特朗普主义,但作者认为这种解读存在误读。“法西斯主义”一词是一个含义不确定的词,它可以被定义,但没有一个单一的定义。一些学者认为,美国历史上存在法西斯主义运动,例如三K党。20世纪30年代,纳粹运动及其在美国的追随者,进一步促进了对美国法西斯主义历史的讨论。一些人认为,美国长期以来就存在法西斯主义传统,而特朗普只是将边缘势力主流化了。关于特朗普是否为法西斯主义者的争论,关键在于其追随者的规模和组织程度是否与二战前的法西斯运动相符。许多人认为特朗普是法西斯主义者,但也有其他观点认为,将特朗普称为法西斯主义者是一种政治策略,而非准确的政治分析。有人认为,所有法西斯主义者都是民粹主义者,但并非所有民粹主义者都是法西斯主义者。特朗普的支持者大多不认同自己是法西斯主义者,而特朗普本人也多次否认自己是法西斯主义者。将特朗普与历史上的法西斯主义者进行比较,需要考虑机会主义在其中扮演的角色。目前存在对特朗普的“正常化”趋势,一些此前批评他的人现在似乎正在与他和解。特朗普在本次选举中获得了穆斯林、拉丁裔和黑人选民的支持,这与传统的法西斯主义运动有所不同。将特朗普描绘成法西斯主义者,其论据往往基于种族主义,而特朗普的支持者群体日益多元化,这与这一说法相悖。本书将特朗普与其他右翼民粹主义领导人进行了比较,探讨了其全球背景。与美国相比,印度在莫迪领导下的情况更加接近法西斯主义。自2010年代以来,全球范围内出现了民主倒退的现象,右翼民粹主义和威权主义势力崛起。对当前全球政治局势的不同解读,决定了人们对特朗普和右翼民粹主义运动的评价方式。鉴于大选后的政治氛围,那些批评法西斯主义解读的文章更能反映当前的政治现实。本书中不同视角的观点,更多地反映了作者自身的专业领域和关注点。当前世界正处于一个不确定的时代,后冷战共识已经瓦解,一个新的秩序正在缓慢形成。当前的政治局势既带来了挑战,也可能为左翼带来变革的机会。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins decide to compile the book 'Did It Happen Here?: Perspectives on Fascism and America'?

Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins decided to compile the book to gather the major scholarly views on whether fascism has come to America, providing a resource for teaching and understanding the present through historical comparisons. He observed the debates on social media and felt a need for a balanced, pedagogical resource.

Why is the term 'fascism' considered a Rorschach test for understanding American society?

The term 'fascism' is considered a Rorschach test because it is hard to define and can be used to delegitimize political opponents. It reveals more about the user's biases and concerns than about the reality of the situation. Different scholars and perspectives interpret it in various ways, reflecting their own expertise and ultimate concerns.

What are some of the key features of fascism as described in the book?

Key features of fascism include anti-Marxism, anti-Bolshevism, anti-liberalism, a high value for violence, trust in authoritarian charismatic leaders, mass movements, and expansionist policies. These features were often associated with the fallout of World War I and the rise of mass movements in Europe.

Why do some scholars argue that Trump is not a fascist?

Some scholars argue that Trump is not a fascist because he lacks a mass movement of militarized citizens, does not self-identify as a fascist, and his followers do not positively identify as fascist. Additionally, Trump's movement has become more diverse, which contradicts the racial and xenophobic aspects typically associated with fascism.

How does the book situate Trump's rise in a global context?

The book situates Trump's rise in a global context of democratic backsliding and the rise of right-wing populism, comparing him to leaders like Modi in India, Putin in Russia, and Orban in Hungary. It explores whether these leaders are fascists and discusses the broader causes of the shift to the right, such as immigration, economic crises, and discontent with the liberal international order.

What is the significance of the diverse support Trump received in the 2020 election for the fascism debate?

The diverse support Trump received in the 2020 election, including gains among Latino and black male voters, is significant because it challenges the racial and xenophobic framing of fascism. This diversity suggests that Trump's movement is not solely a white supremacist movement, which is a key argument against the fascist label.

What are some of the essays in the book that are critical of the fascist interpretation of Trump?

Essays critical of the fascist interpretation include pieces by Victoria de Grazia, Daniel Bessner and Ben Burgess, and Samuel Moyn. These essays frame fascism as a rhetorical device, discuss the limitations of historical comparisons, and argue that the fascist label is not the best way to understand Trump's rise.

Why did the editor of the book ask Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins to take a stand in his introduction?

The editor asked Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins to take a stand in his introduction to provide a clear perspective amidst the myriad of scholarly views. Steinmetz-Jenkins ultimately took a deflationary stance, suggesting that the debate reveals more about the scholars' expertise and concerns than about the reality of fascism in America.

Shownotes Transcript

Today I’m speaking with Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins about the new, edited volume, Did It Happen Here? Perspectives on Fascism and America)* *(W.W. Norton, 2024). Danny is Assistant Professor in the College of Social Studies at Wesleyan University and the steward of a fantastic interview series in The Nation magazine. *Did it Happen Here? *presents a snapshot of the fascism debate being waged on American campuses, in magazines, and on social media. The most recent iteration of the fascism debate began, as with many debates about the state of American politics, with the election of Donald Trump. Since his first term in 2016, speculation about the true nature of Trumpism has generated countless think-pieces and books. *Did It Happen Here? *is the definitive summary of the major scholarly views on whether fascism has come to America. As Danny puts it, “the fascism debate is Rorschach test for understanding what is truly ailing American society.”

Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins is Assistant Professor in the College of Social Studies at Wesleyan University.

Caleb Zakarin is editor at the New Books Network.

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