Am I Settling? Am I Losing Myself? Relationship Anxiety - Uncut with Georgie Collinson
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This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. And I'm Laura. And today we are talking anxiety, but specifically relationship anxiety. And I think it's something that when you have a look at yourself, a bit of self-reflection, think back to all the dating that you've done. If you're single, think back to all the feelings that you felt when you're in the tumultuous dating world.

Anxiety is something that rears its ugly head consistently. Well, for anyone who's not sure in terms of like what could constitute that feeling, it's like if you've ever found yourself Googling, am I settling in a relationship? Have you ever sort of been questioning whether you're self-sabotaging? Have you ever kind of found yourself having the same patterned behaviours in relationships that make you feel unsafe, unstable? And I think a really big part of it is recognising why.

What is anxiety and what is real? Like what is actually a very real feeling because your relationship is not the right relationship and differentiating which is which. Yeah. And those feelings of like, you don't even have to have Googled it, but the feelings of, am I enough? The feelings of, do I trust him? Do I want to go through his phone? Where is he? Maybe you're feeling a little bit controlling. Maybe they are, maybe it's like reciprocated feelings.

These are something I think we all have felt and that is why I'm so excited to introduce today's guest, Georgie Collinson. Now Georgie is a bit of an expert in anxiety but specifically relationship anxiety. She wrote a book, The Anxiety Reset Method, which was loved by...

Oprah herself. It made Oprah's book club, which is a pretty big deal for anyone that has ever written a book. And she's just written her second book about anxiety in relationships, which is what we're going to be speaking about today. Georgie, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much, ladies. It's been a crazy ride. That's for sure. Georgie, we start every interview the same way, and that is with our Accidentally Unfiltered stories. Could you tell us what is your most embarrassing story?

Okay, so immediately a dating story came to mind because they're just so easy and considering the relationship anxiety topic. So this was a few years ago. I went on a date with a guy and he texted me 15 minutes before the date. We were meeting at a wine bar. I was all dressed up, ready to go. And he's like, hey, is it okay if I go home and shower? I've just been at the gym.

And I was already on my way. So I said, sorry, I'm already like almost here. And he turns up on the date. He's in trackies and sweaty gym clothes. And I kind of just sort of went along with it. Then he orders. I know, like it was just such a weird thing. And at the time, he did tell you to be fair.

Well, I know that it was kind of one of those moments of like, you know, I'm already here and I didn't want to use the plans. So went along with it and he orders a herbal tea. I order a glass of wine because I mean, we're at a wine bar and I was like, oh cool, like do you not drink? And he's like, no, no, I just don't feel like it.

So I was kind of like, okay, like he's not really getting into the vibe here. Then he tells me that on his bucket list, he wants to die in space. And I was kind of like, well, that's not really a bucket list thing because, you know, and the kicker is that I actually organized with my brother to quarantine.

you know, when you do that so that like you've got the emergency excuse to get out of the date. And I didn't answer the phone. Like I just couldn't leave. I was kind of stuck in it because I felt so, I don't know. I've used to do this thing particularly where I would just like, oh, it was just all crashing down. I would just stay there trying to be nice. And then at the end, he wanted to split the bill. And so he got his $4 bill.

herbal tea and I got my $8 glass of wine the waiter was like looking at us awkward it was just so embarrassing and that's my story and I think sums up kind of the journey that I've taken in relationships and anxiety you literally just combined like I think there were like four different horrific dates I've been on that were all in that one story like in your one it's really grim out there like it's really hard are you single now I have a beautiful partner now thank goodness oh

I'm out of that crazy world. So Georgie, tell me how it came across your desk that like Oprah wanted you in her book club. Did Oprah slide in your DMs herself? Does she give you a call? How does that work? I've always wondered because I've been waiting for the Oprah call for a while, but it hasn't happened. I know. I so wish it was that way, but it was literally through my publisher in the US. They sent me an email and they were like, Oprah's people are looking at your book. And that was

so exciting, but you just don't really know what's happening. There's still quite a lot of distance between me and Oprah, unfortunately. But she has held my book in her hand. Yes. And then it's like, you've got the feature and all of that. So it was super, super exciting when that happened.

What was it about specifically relationship anxiety that you wanted to delve into the research for? Because like, I mean, we've spoken about anxiety in general on the podcast before we've done episodes of it, but never a deep dive into anxieties around relationships. And, you know, I think so many of us have found ourselves questioning whether we're settling or questioning whether the relationship that we're in is the right relationship, worrying about what's coming along for us. But why was it specifically this type of anxiety that you found yourself interested in?

Okay, the reason is I was so good at managing anxiety in all other areas of my life. And I was helping clients around the world, doing so many great things. But whenever it came to a relationship scenario, it could just bring me to my knees. It was my kryptonite. And I was just determined to get to the bottom of this and figure out

you know, what's going on here and why a relationship is such a vulnerable sort of area for me. And I was discovering more and more it was the same for my clients, you know. And really, if we could sum it up, it comes down to the fact that our nervous systems are so connected to the people around us. And that's partly because we're tribal beings and our intimate relationship can be such a source of support and calm. But we also have to have done the work within ourselves to be able to receive that and understand

A lot of us have had very good reasons to maybe not feel so safe. And I mean safe in a subtle way, like emotionally safe with our partners in relationships. So what is relationship anxiety and what are some examples of it? It sounds like thoughts like, what if they leave me? Can I trust them?

What if I'm not good enough for them? Or it might sound like we're afraid we're stuck in a bad situation. Like what if I'm settling and I'm trapped in this relationship? Or what if I'm not quite with the right person? Or we're not in love enough. We're not attracted to each other enough. What if I am...

somehow going to lose myself in this relationship that's another big source of anxiety too that we're going to lose our own identity and not really be able to be our own autonomous person or maybe I'll be happier with someone else there's another thought that can come up yeah and if you're single it's like well what if I'm alone forever or you know what if I never meet the right person and I'm too broken for healthy love but typically like part of that that relationship anxiety

Is it something that you were experiencing yourself? And if so, how long were you in that before you had the self-realization, like the self-awareness to be like, oh, hang on a minute, like I'm doing this to myself? Yeah. So I started off with a six-year relationship in my 20s that was like really quite stable and lovely. And I actually refer to this kind of relationship as base love in my book. So we've got these three stages of love that we've moved through. The first one is kind of like

you're together and usually it's not too much drama, but for whatever reason, you move apart in different directions. And it might have been that you chose that person because it was kind of like what your parents would have wanted for you or what you thought you wanted, but you weren't quite attached to or aware of what your authentic self needs and wants in a relationship. So I left that relationship and went into a

really chaotic relationship. It was the chaotic love phase. And at the time, at the beginning, I thought this was amazing. It was just like heaven. And then it was hell. So it was so much love and passion. And we had this long distance romance. I met him in Greece. He was this British Marine. He was traveling the world. That sounds like a

Sounds like a book. It was a book. Like I lived this fairy tale, but it really required us to sort of both live in a fantasy to keep that relationship going. And then when I moved in with him, I moved over to England, packed my bags, like fully dove into it. The whole thing changed. Suddenly he was seeking any way he could to spend time with other people and away from me. And I was just alone in this tiny, rainy place.

seagull squawking town in England with like no friends and just feeling like so, so riddled with anxiety because of that lack of safety I was experiencing. Yeah.

But something you just mentioned then, I mean, you say you're riddled with anxiety, but how do you know if that is actually just your body telling you like this is a red flag, this is a situation you shouldn't be in? I think it's really quite important for people to be able to figure out what is it that is real and what is it that we are like creating in ourselves and manifesting ourselves. Yes.

So at that point, I didn't have the awareness to know that this was actually kind of red flag stuff for me. And, you know, maybe a different person with different life experiences could have perhaps made it work with that situation. But for me, I didn't realize how much I needed help.

a consistent, available partner and someone who was safe, someone who was able to show up for me time and time again. It was something I tried to pretend I was okay with. And this was a pattern that went back to childhood. So the more that I was able to explore the origins of how I'd ended up

in this situation, why I was sort of repeating these patterns, it became easier to then later identify, oh, this is a past thing. It's not actually something that's occurring now. And I could look at the situation I'm in now. So even with my partner that I'm with now, we're in a healthy, secure relationship. This is the stage I call expansive love, where you're with a partner you can actually grow with. Now, it's not always rainbows and butterflies. Like, you're going to have challenges. You're still going to have conflict. But

rather than getting lost in, oh, no, it's all over now and this is it and he's going to leave me, I can see if that thought were to occur in my mind. I can see, well, that's actually a past thing. It's not the reality of what he's showing up with, the consistency he's bringing to the table here. So with that awareness, you can start to see, okay, is this a past issue or is it a now thing that's actually showing up? When I was in England with that ex, like that was a now problem. Like he was really not showing up.

for me the way that I need it. When we become more aware of what we need to, it's going to be clearer to see whether you're getting that or not in that relationship. And again, we can sort of match up what's going on in reality and now as opposed to

what can happen with anxiety where we're getting like an emotional flashback to the past. You know, it usually reminds us of, oh, hang on, this is how I felt when I was a little child. And, you know, I had a dad who was really busy, really inconsistently there. Even though he was there, he was just like...

you know, a lot of dads were hardworking, yada, yada, but he wasn't really able to be there in an emotional way for me either. And so that was actually quite painful. But, you know, this is common. This is normal. So we don't really see that as a problem, but these patterns are subtle and they show up later in our lives.

Do you think these patterns are always indicative? Like, do you think you always move into relationships that are formed based on the experiences that you've had when you were younger? Yes, unless we are consciously choosing something else. And that's the kicker. That's the thing. Like, that's why I chose a partner unconsciously who was moving around the world and so exciting because, hey, my dad was never like there consistently for me. So it wasn't like they were the same person, but it was the same pattern of

He's here sometimes. Oh, my God, it's so great. And the same feeling. Yes. Yeah. That's it. And what's happening is the inner child in us, we can't help it. We're trying to resolve the pain from the past. We're trying to get a happy ending. It's like if I can find a character in my story that matches up that same feeling

kind of energy. And this time I can make it work. Like this time I'll get them to love me and be here for me and have the happy ending. That's sort of what we're going for. But of course, it's just not practical if we're consistently with someone who is not showing up the way we need. So we need to eventually...

see what's going on, choose differently, choose actually I'm going to show up as the woman now or the grown adult seeking a partner or in this relationship I'm in and I'm going to actually speak for what I need. You know, these are things that I can do now that I couldn't when I was a child. You mentioned these three love phases and I love the idea of this base love, chaotic love and expansive love.

do people always move through these three phases or is it a case where you might get stuck on one and never make it to the end one or the first one? Do you know what I mean? Like, is it always within this patterned order or do people experience it differently? Well, I wish life always had like a perfect happy ending for everyone. But of course, if we don't turn inward and like,

actually look at our shit and face this stuff, we can get caught in some of that chaotic love and find ourselves kind of churning around and around. Some people will go through the three stages with the same person.

That's what's fascinating too. And I've seen this evolve for like people I know who've been in marriages where they were together from 17 and they used to like maybe someone cheated on the other, but they like worked through it and now they've become, they've sort of grown up together. But often we will move through this with different people. Sounds like you might know someone who's been through that. No, no, I was just, we were both, we're just so in sync. We were both like, mm.

I mean, it's interesting when you make these references because I like, you know, I think about my own experiences and I'm like, I feel like I follow this exact pattern. The only thing is, is I also know people who have stayed in chaotic love and it's like they never ever either they didn't meet someone where they were conscious of it, that it was a different thing or they just were always going after the same pattern behavior. But I feel like a lot of people, it's like they get to the chaotic love and they can't move beyond it.

And then also this feeling of like bad relationships happen to me and I don't know why I'm always the one who never finds the right person. And it's this understanding of like we also attract and make choices in the people that we date. That's it. Yeah. You spoke just before about trying to figure out if it's a now problem or a past problem when you're in a relationship and trying to differentiate between anxiety or a red flag. But are there any other tools that you or people can use that you tell your clients to use to

In addition to the, is it a now or is it a past problem to differentiate those red flags or not? Because I think a lot of people conflate the two or get it confused. It gets very blurry for people that might not have past issues. Because I know for me, I have zero past issues. Like I had the most normal, healthy, loving, stable childhood. My parents are still together. Like I had that, but I still...

were in the most horrific relationships with like the biggest red flags that caused anxiety. If you have had this stable relationship growing up with everyone else, all these external sources, how do you know if it's a red flag or if it isn't your anxiety? So here's the really interesting thing. We get so confused about what love really is. And often this can start and will start in our childhoods and in our family group because we'll be told that

we all love each other and look at our like happy family picture together. I had a really beautiful childhood as well. And I had like, you know, I would have never thought that that would have led me to have issues or things come up later in life. But the more that I explored my subconscious mind, and this is something I do a lot in my work and I talk about in the book too. I, I,

actually realized there were these little moments where I started to interpret and perceive things about myself based on what was going on. So for example, if I, you know, was missing my dad, cause he wasn't, he was at work, you know, again, he wasn't doing that to me. He wasn't like

a drunk or doing anything like majorly red flaggy. He was just working as a busy person trying to provide for the family. But that was painful in my heart. Like I missed him as a three-year-old, as a four-year-old, a five-year-old. I didn't have the words to communicate that. And I started to believe certain things about myself, like, you know, work's more important than me.

And I'm not that important. And this started to change then as an adult. Okay, if I'm dating a man, what's more important than me? I'm not that important. And I won't speak up for what I need as clearly as I could. So we start to believe these things about love that aren't really love. And again, I'm told, no, your dad loves you. He loves you. He's here for you. So again, I'm dating someone inconsistent. I'm dating someone who's like obsessed with their work and doesn't really show up that much in a relationship.

But I'm telling myself now, but he likes you. He loves you. It's okay. Like just settle for this. This is all right. And so this is how this starts to develop. It doesn't always occur from like really dramatic upbringing scenarios. It can come in these subtle ways that it's fascinating to go and explore that and see that about yourself. But you'll also, you know, as you become more confident in yourself and like own what you need and what you deserve, that also becomes easier to communicate.

In terms of if you're someone who like recognizes that you have patterns in the types of relationships that you get into, once you've realized that, how do you go about breaking or dismantling what these patterns look like? That's such a good question. That is, that is the million dollar question. And so,

For me, what it looked like, so once I was really aware, and I know so many people do get to this point when maybe you've done a lot of talk therapy, a lot of podcasts, a lot of self-help books, and you're like, I can see like, oh my goodness, I keep doing this. I'm the problem. I keep doing this. Yeah. And what I started to do, because you can be quite mean to yourself then, you

You can start going like beating yourself up, but I did it again. Look at me. I just can't stop doing it. I also think it's like you almost start to not trust your ability to judge someone's character or make choices. You know, I mean, if you've had like a certain pattern of relationships and it's resulted in the same outcome, you do question, okay, well, then how do I trust who it is that I'm choosing to be in a relationship with?

Yes, exactly. And these patterns are quite addictive. I equate this to like when you want to stop eating chocolate, for example. If you tell yourself, I can't eat chocolate, not allowed chocolate, suddenly it becomes a taboo and you just want it more, right? It's the same thing with trying to break these patterns. If we say, I'm just going to stop going for the bad boy, you know, I'm just going to not go for that person I'm so attracted to. What I do and recommend for my clients as well, what I did was I started to let myself

play out the pattern.

But instead of just doing it unconsciously, I did it with my eyes open. I was watching what would happen. So I would feel the attraction to someone I knew I should not feel attraction to. And I used it as an opportunity to learn and gather information. So I watched what would happen. I watched how I showed up. I let it sort of unfold, obviously not to the point where we're getting into like I'm two years deep in something that's not great for me. You know, this is just like over a couple of weeks.

And I let myself sort of see what would happen. And eventually what occurred was I realized this is a dead end. It's like looking at the most delicious ice cream that you love and yet knowing it's spiked with a flavor that you hate. You're seeing this person in front of you who, you know, your mind is saying, oh, it could work out. This is going to be okay. But

your wiser self knows this is a dead end this person cannot show up as you know the person that's stable the person that's going to be there in the hospital room with me the person who's going to be a great father to if we had children you know or whatever it might be that you want and suddenly it

it clicks and you naturally can become disinterested in following that same old pattern again. Yeah. And I think we lie to ourselves a lot. Well, I don't think I know we lie to ourselves a lot because we fall in love with or become obsessed with the potential of what a relationship is and the potential of someone and what they could offer us if we hang around or if I change them a little bit and teach them to be like this, that maybe in five years they will be a great dad and they will stop fucking up and they will stop cheating on me.

And we tell ourselves that to make ourselves feel better. And I think that links into the anxiety you spoke about at the start of, well, is it better to settle now because I have so much anxiety about being alone and never finding like that amazing person? Does that amazing person even exist? And this is fresh in mind for me because I put an Instagram post up yesterday on something that Laura and I were talking about, about how amazing it feels that I waited and I found like a really safe love. And,

And I was quite shocked at the number of people that were commenting and writing to me my DMs that were so down and out about the dating scene and about them never finding anyone. Like so many people were being like, well, that must be nice, but like, I'm never going to find it. Like it's never for me. I've tried so hard and men are shit. It made me really upset because I thought, wow, you must have gone through quite a lot of

really shitty situations and this anxiety in a relationship to feel like you are in your 30s and already like taking yourself out of the game. Yes. And can I just say that, you know, I was single until 32 and just like totally in that

place. You know, I really had to grieve, you know, the bride having the big wedding and all of these fantasies that 25 year old me had. Right. And so I really feel that. And it just is so, so painful. And what we're seeing in that scenario when people are in that state and I've been there, I get it. It's a learned helplessness is what it's called. And it's essentially when we

flashback emotionally to being a child again, where we truly were at some point powerless. All of us experienced our childhoods where we didn't get to make the choices for our lives. If you were upset and that parent wasn't able to be there for you,

If they were saying, oh, you're being so difficult for me, just go to your room. And then you're left alone to feel this pain in your heart and cry or maybe not cry because crying is not allowed or whatever it might be. You can't go anywhere else. You've got no choices. So a lot of us might have lived some version of that in our childhood. Now, again, fast forward to adulthood. We

We think we're still in that powerless place again. We think that we have to get along with these specific people in our lives, which as children, you have to get along with your caregivers. Your life depends on it. But the thing is now as an adult, you've got a choice. You've got a choice to choose and surround yourself with different people, with people who do show up

for you, kind people. And often we can't see it until we actually open our eyes to the possibility that it can be different, that we don't have to continue choosing what was familiar to us then. And that's where things really start to shift. I think we have to say, you know, beyond the, there are no good men out there or every, you know, dating's always terrible. It's like, no, there are also really good, genuine people out there, like tons of them.

just like you that want what you want too. If you exist and you want it, someone else out there wants it too and they're looking for you. But Georgie, in that sense then, how do you rewrite your type? Because if you're someone who's driven by chemistry, if you're driven by this like really like I need to be so attracted to the person to feel as though that this relationship is going to have the same longevity of whatever. Like the chaotic love. Yeah, it's like, you know, we all know that you can be attracted to things that are like really quite toxic. That's what brings it in, the toxicity. Yeah.

But then for some people, that's like the stable, reliable, kind love is not exciting. And so therefore it's not their type of person. How does someone know if they're conflating the two and how do we rewire what our type is? Yeah, I was so scared that I would have to settle for a boring relationship to just be safe and that it was going to be...

Yeah. To be taken care of. Yeah. But it was going to be so dull. And it's really funny. I'll tell you a quick story about a dream that I had where I was in a car with a guy who represented, so this in my dream, we're driving along the highway. He represented everything that I was attracted to and wanted, even though it was completely wrong for me. And we were driving up and then all of a sudden the road became really steep and it was like a cliff. And we started sort of

falling backwards off the road and the car just like lurched. And I looked at him and I said, I love you. And he looked at me and was just fear struck and wide eyed and didn't say anything back. And then off we fell back down and crashed at the bottom and

Sounds terrible, Georgie. I mean, dreams, right? Like it was a scary one. Everything went black. I looked out the window of the car, like we're in this crash site now. And I see this calm meandering road up the cliff that I could have taken that was lined with grass and flowers. And it was much more gentle of an incline. And it really metaphorically represented for me that I'm

I was choosing the hard road in relationships, in love. I was making it hard for myself because I was trying to prove a sense of now I'm worthy. If I can get this really tough, challenging person to love me, then I'm worthy. And it was like, oh, but you could also just take this path. And what I found when I met my current partner,

and I had to actually have this realisation before I met him, is that that kind of a relationship that's the meandering steady road that's actually going to work and can have that happy ending, that

isn't boring when you are growing and committed to sort of like deepening that intimacy because they're always going to mirror something back to you about yourself. You're constantly learning. It becomes so exciting to see what can actually happen if I deepen this intimacy, if I'm with this person for three years, five years, ten years,

plus then what happens? This can get really interesting and fascinating from there. And that's what opens up for us in expansive love. In chaotic love, we're kind of, there's still a part of us that isn't ready to go on that deeper journey because we're still believing in some way that that is going to be limiting for us, that it's perhaps not even safe for us. So

unintentionally, unconsciously, we're kind of sabotaging, like you said, Britt, we're sabotaging that happy ending kind of relationship, the thing that could actually work out for us. That can really sum up sort of how we can sort of stay stuck in some of these chaotic patterns. It's also interesting when you self-analyze, when we have these conversations, and Laura and I, we've had these conversations for six years with specialists in all of their fields and

I would like to think we're so well educated, but I even find myself doing it sometimes. Now, my fiance, Ben, is just a dream. Like it's so safe. He's so emotionally available. He gives me everything that I need in a relationship. And sometimes I find myself being like,

Boring because we don't fight. And I'm not saying boring as in I don't want to be in a relationship. But sometimes, and it happens when we haven't seen each other for a while, but sometimes I'll try and pick a fight with him. And I know I'm doing it, but I'm like, you're too boring.

nice. Like, and I know that's when I check myself and I have to go back to my past relationships. And I'm like, this is everything that you've ever wanted. And this is what you need. And I find myself going back to my super toxic relationships where you fought all the time and you were like at each other's throat. And you thought that that's what that passionate love was. And I'm like, hang on, I've got to check myself. I'm picking a fight now because you're too good to me. Like that's me self-sabotage. Yeah. But don't you think that's also a by-product of like, it kind of only comes out for you guys when you've spent too much time apart.

A hundred percent. It's like a condition of long distance. Yeah. I just think sometimes we convince ourselves. My point of that is sometimes we convince ourselves that something is a boring relationship, but the number of psychologists and relationship therapists that we've spoken to that says a relationship essentially should be boring to be healthy and not boring as in you don't have fun and excitement, but boring in terms of like how stable you feel.

Yeah. See, from my perspective, that's interesting because now you get to do that work of, oh, look at what I'm doing. This is interesting. That's my old...

this is like a part of me that's old. It's a pattern where I'm trying to keep that familiar, you know, chaotic scenario kind of going for whatever reason. Maybe it's when things are more chaotic, you feel more worthy of being loved because, okay, now I've got the challenge and I've like, you know, secured that down. We can have that little inner dialogue going. And if we can continue doing that, that's what's going to take us out of chaotic love into expansive love.

in expansive love will still have some of those little bumps and challenges along the way, as you've mentioned, but it's easier to navigate through them because you have so much more awareness of yourself and the ability to kind of like

not let those parts of you run the show anymore. Georgie, even in that, I mean, you've spoken a lot about the four different types of fear that we can have when we're in relationships, which kind of links into this anxiety that we bring into it. What is it about fear in general? And I'd love you to talk us through those four types, but how is it that when we show up with this, we are derailing our own relationships? Yeah.

Well, we can easily think that we're, you know, not in the right situation when in fact, you know, we're just feeding into buying into unrealistic expectations about love. It's so easy to like, I was the person at parties talking to my friends about how amazing my relationship was and how passionate it was. But I was in a chaotic love phase. I didn't realize yet that that heaven was going to turn into hell. And so, yeah.

easily someone could be sitting there listening to someone telling a story about how amazing their relationship is we have the most incredible sex life all of that and then starts to doubt their own relationship because it's not living up to that and I think with you know social media we're getting the high light real we see those like perfect couples on Instagram all over the

place and it really does give this sense of like, do they ever have fights like this? Do they ever worry about this and that? So relationships will just bring up all those insecurities and doubts and worries for us for sure. Do you think you have to have anxiety or suffer from anxiety to experience relationship anxiety? No. So I think it's one of those things that just the nature of relationships because they do tend to bring up our deepest insecurities because we

so much of our survival is dependent on having really healthy, stable people by our sides. Again, we're tribal beings. If we got kicked out of the tribe, we don't survive. So we have to find a way to continue belonging and feel connected. And so that's just a scenario that is so right to bring up these worries and think like, what if this doesn't last? Because

we don't know if a relationship is going to last. Like, like no one can tell you a hundred percent that this thing is perfectly certain, even if you're in a secure, healthy relationship, then it starts to manifest as, but what if something happens to them? You know, what if they get sick? What if, you know, they don't come home from work today? So it's always kind of going on within us until we start to build that inner security with ourselves. And that's

really is that reparenting work that I was just mentioning earlier. When you speak about this reparenting work, like, I mean, what is the process? What does that look like? Because I think for a lot of people, you can recognize that you have patterns or you can recognize that there's some similarities between relationships from childhood to relationships that are romantic relationships. But I think it's a quite a process to get to the point where not only do you recognize it, but you know how to do something about it.

essentially if we as children went through a period of not getting what we needed we don't

emotionally mature from that point. Our emotional maturity is kind of stunted and we get stuck in a space. So, you know, if, for example, we really want something, we want a hug and it's not there, you know, because mum's too busy and stressed right now, we learn that that's not available to me. And so, again, later in life, we're still playing out this pattern of love isn't available to me or what I need isn't important, is not there. You

unless we go back and we start to see, okay, like there is this part of me that's still a child. And you'll know, because doesn't it feel like you're still a little child when you get into a state of anxiety or when you feel really like triggered, you're just like, no, I don't want this. Or you might find yourself like throwing a tantrum or feeling really like you've gone from one second being a super confident, capable person to just like

I can't do anything and I don't know if I'm doing life right. And so we become aware that that's what's happened, that this inner child has momentarily taken control of the steering wheel of our life and we can see what's going on and we can bring out this other part of us that is always there and, you know,

Like as a parent, you can be totally overwhelmed, but also have a baby that's crying and you can still bring out that parent in you that needs to suit the baby, right? Like you can still do that. So it's doing that for yourself. It's bringing out this part of you that's like, you know what?

we've got this, I've got you and I'm going to keep you safe. And I'm going to take you now to go have a shower. I'm going to take you now to eat some food or I'm going to give you the love that you needed. You didn't get that hug when you're a child. I'm going to give you a hug, even if it feels weird.

I mean, it's such a tricky one because I think about it in terms of, and like you said, Britt, when you're like, I grew up in a household that, you know, if you had like a conflicted childhood, it's so easy to pinpoint those triggers. But then I also think like when you're a parent, when you listen to like how your kids can be affected, you think, fuck, it doesn't even matter if I'm a good parent, I'm still going to fuck my kids up in some way. Laura, the next thing I was about to say is all I'm hearing is, is how fucking hard being a parent is and how like every decision you make impacts your kid. But also...

I think it's, I mean, on the flip side of that, I know that that seems like such an obvious thing to interpret it. Like it's kind of a selfish way to interpret it if you're a parent. I'm not a parent and that's what I was thinking. But I also question it's like, it's an unavoidable truth. Like it's an impossibility to give another person 100% of everything they need at every single point in time. And actually I would almost debate that it's,

not healthy too, because then where's the resilience building? Where are all the other qualities that come from tending to someone's every single beck and call? You know, I think kids, kids, I'm not saying neglect your kids, but there's definitely going to be times where they have to wait for you to emotionally regulate them because children also need to learn to emotionally regulate themselves.

So it's such an interesting thing to unpack as we're adults, but I don't think it necessarily always comes with blame as to how the parents and how your parents interacted with you. It's never about blame. It's just about understanding. And, you know, even when you find yourself as a parent hearing this and like it can bring up that, oh God, am I doing the right thing? Even that is a part to just notice within yourself that most of us have that's like, I want to be perfect. You know, I want to do the perfect job. I've got to get this right. But

We can even reparent that part. So that part is thinking you have to get it perfect to be good enough. And ultimately that's,

that's not true. You don't have to be a perfect parent. So that's part of maturing. That's part of reparenting yourself as you parent. And yes, your kids are going to interpret things in their own way. You know, you could go out to the clothesline for five minutes and they might think, oh my goodness, mom's not coming back. But you just do your best to come back when moments happen where you are dysregulated and you find yourself yelling and everyone just leave

leave me alone if that comes out you know it's also okay to repair in the aftermath of that and most of us did not experience that in our families where someone said hey my bad like that was on me I'm sorry guys like that's not your fault mum's just feeling really overwhelmed right now but I'm gonna take care of myself and you don't have to worry like we didn't really hear that it's

It's interesting, isn't it? Like our parents certainly weren't the generation for apologizing or accountability. And I think that there has definitely been a shift in terms of like the understanding that there will be times as a parent, you're dysregulated and you might say something in a tone or you might yell or you might just react in a way that you don't feel proud of afterwards. But I definitely don't think that our parents were conditioned to apologize for that. Whereas I do think we are.

Very much so. I just wanted to say there's something that made me giggle and it's just, there is, just to really reiterate that there is no right or wrong way or perfect way to parent is that I have a friend that I was talking to recently that is currently in therapy and

Because their parents were too good. And I know this sounds ridiculous, but they were like, my mum and dad gave me everything I needed. They do everything for me. The way they showed love was like making sure all my washing is constantly done. As an adult, they still go and do these things for them. Now that they can't function because they were over-functioning for their kids. It's like you're doing a disservice to your children doing that.

But that's my point. My point is there is no way to say, hey, I'm trying to be a perfect parent because this family did everything they could to be the perfect parent and their kid's still in therapy because it was too much. So like I just didn't want anyone to listen at home being like, oh, my God, I have anxiety now about me doing it wrong. There 100% is no right, completely right or wrong way. Obviously there's things you can do that you know are wrong. I would object. There are some completely wrong ways.

way. That's what I'm saying, but they're the obvious things. But in terms of the day-to-day of, oh, should I be doing my kids washing? Should I have yelled? Should I apologize? All of these things, there's no way to know what impact that is ever going to have on your child either way, positively or negatively, as long as you know that you're showing up and doing the best that you can as a parent.

Yeah, I think you do your best to make them feel loved no matter what. But when a parent is consistently doing everything for their child, like I've taken care of that. Oh, don't worry. I've done this. You don't need to worry about that. It can actually foster a sense of love.

lacking self-trust and not building that sense of, oh, I can do it. It makes sense to me why that would lead to possibly anxiety later in life, because there's like a sense of I'm not actually capable because I always needed these big people to do everything for me. And now I'm an adult alone in the world and I can't do it. So, yes, I can sort of actually see how that might occur. And this just, again, comes back to our self-awareness that we

Part of self-awareness is our imperfection too. Like we are just never going to get everything perfect and that's okay.

I read a really interesting article around exactly what you just mentioned then, Georgie, and it was kind of dictating that parents who do run to try and fix every single feeling of discomfort that a child has, not just the disservice that they're doing to their own children in terms of resilience building and everything else, but also the only reason why you're doing that is to fix your own discomfort. Yes. Because you can't handle. So it's actually like a selfish thing.

self-fulfilling prophecy, you're doing it because you can't handle the fact that your child is in an uncomfortable state. And so you're robbing them of the ability to problem solve and to fix their own issues because it's your issue that you've made it to fix. And I found that such an interesting take, because I do think that, you know, as parents, you never want your kids to feel any level of pain. And especially if you come from a

a childhood or you've had that experience yourself. Like I think sometimes we can be in the situation where we overcorrect it. Yes, for sure. And I think this is why the more we can just do that work on ourselves is like cliche as it sounds. We're simply role modeling that. Like it's not so much what you tell others to do, whether it's your children or your friends or your family, it's what are you doing and embodying within yourself? So if you're becoming more okay with your own uncomfortable emotions, you are naturally going to model that

for others who are in pain. And one of the most healing things you can do, like if you have a friend or a child who's crying in front of you, they're in pain,

is to not actually be worried about them in that. It's simply to just be with them in that and say, I can see how much this hurts. Yeah, it's okay to just feel this. And that is the most, oh, like relieving thing to just be seen in your pain and not have someone rush you through it or say, oh, but come on, don't cry. Like it's all okay. And let's just feel gratitude right now. If you can just be in it, it passes. And then we've got this beautiful relief on the other side

In terms of the anxiety in relationships and the people you've spoken to and helped over the years, what seems to be like the number one standout issue that they're experiencing? And by that I mean, is it more self-doubt, I'm not good enough? Is it more issues worried about being alone or is it more issues about trust and like your partner cheating and constantly wanting to check their phone? Is there something that's a real standout for the people that you've spoken to over the years? Yeah.

That's such a good question because it really is like an amalgamation of possibly even just those three things you said. It's feeling, well, if we can sum up everything, it always comes back to I'm

I'm not enough in some way. So if I feel alone, for example, going through this emotional distress or just alone in life, it's because I don't feel capable. I don't feel enough to be with this experience. I don't feel like I can handle it. If we don't trust ourselves, again, I'm not enough.

to have the knowing, the wisdom, the capability to navigate life decisions in an intelligent or safe way. So again, that's what I would bring it all down to is the root of everything is I'm not enough. And we all have it.

Yeah, it's so true. Georgie, thank you so much for coming and being a part of the podcast. I know that every time we have conversations around like pattern behaviors in relationships, there's a lot of self-awareness that comes with it. I think there's a lot of people who have these moments where they're like, okay, that's exactly what I do. But it's always the question around how do you fix that and how do you break it? Which I think a lot of people are left with. Like you see the pattern and then you just don't really know what's your way out. And also is something normal or not?

Yeah, absolutely. And in terms of anxiety and relationships, I think it's something that every single person goes through in different ways. Maybe it presents and manifests differently, but it all definitely is stuff that if you've been in the dating world and you've been single, like every single person experiences this. So thank you so much for all your wisdom, but also for something that is like truly universal that we all experience. Thank you.

My pleasure. It's so meaningful to be able to share it with everyone. So I hope it's helpful. Well, Georgie's new book, Master Your Relationship Anxiety, and her social media is all going to be linked in our show notes. Are you going to send that one to Oprah as well? I will pass it on to Oprah. 100%. Pass our book on too, thanks. Joking. Thanks so much, Georgie. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.