Anonymous Online Trolls, Let The Unmasking Begin!
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This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. And today we decided to wear team uniforms. Unfortunately, Keish didn't get the memo. You guys look like you're the cow. I... I...

If I had bad eyesight, it would just be floating heads. If you are watching this on YouTube, yesterday Britt and I had a discussion in the car where I said I don't think I suit beige. I regret that because I didn't know you copied my outfits. I was like, you can wear beige. You do it. Do anything. I was like, we've got the same colouring. Look at me. So I turned up in my outfit the other day that Laura did compliment. Last time I wore this, she goes, that's a really cute set. Anyway, Laura turned up today in a full beige matching outfit.

I just want to be you. No, I went into Dish and I bought – just nothing fits me anymore, guys. It's the only thing that fits me right now. Oh, really?

I really have like every single winter item that I would have won last year. I'm now like just over the cusp. None of the pants do up. Nothing's comfortable. Even the things that stretch, like everything that had an elasticized waistband is now a little bit too tight. Don't you just pull it down under the belly? They're still too tight. Like my ass is grown. Everything's grown. My ass and my boobs are growing faster than my stomach, to be fair. Also, so are my nipples. My nipples are so fucking long. Do they get

Do you get every time? They're just, well, I think they get longer so the baby can find them, you know, and latch on. Okay, E-T-T, phone home. Also, I learned something. I was talking to my sister-in-law. Sorry to start this off with pregnancy shit. I know no one cares, but I'll just make it brief. I think everyone cares about the size of your nipple. So I was talking to my sister-in-law who also has three kids and I was saying how they

the baby is upside down. So the baby's breech currently. Yeah. Which isn't, I mean, it's fine. There's still plenty of time for it to spin. And she was saying, oh, don't worry about it. Like when you've had your third kid, your womb is so stretched. She's like, when I went to the obstetrician, the obstetrician told me that the baby can fully stand up at this point. So I'm just imagining Poppy like head up near my heart and feet down at the bottom of my cervix and just standing up. She's planking in the womb. It's weird that you already refer to it with a name. Like-

Also, have we spoken about that on the podcast? Sorry, everyone. So when we were away in Bali. Because I beeped it. Yeah, when we were away in Bali, if you only listen to the podcast and you don't follow socials, you might have missed it. We talked about how Matt and I had picked a name on like a previous episode and we beeped it out because like I just assumed that that's one of those things that you talk to your partner about and you make sure if you're like,

you know, telling everyone. If you're going to tell a nation, the unborn child. He doxxed your child. He doxxed the kid, yeah. So it turns out that on Two Dirty Dads, Matt, he just needed a headline. He just kind of casually was like, oh, yeah, we're tossing up between two names, Poppy and Penny. And Ash said he didn't like Penny as much as Poppy. And so Matt was like, yeah, us too, we're going with Poppy. And that was the whole conversation. He fully doxxed their unborn child. No wonder your child's standing up in the womb and is protesting. He's like, I'm not. Get me out of here.

But I think we've changed the middle name. Don't dox that as well. Keep something a secret. No, get us a headline. We were going to call her Poppy Bell Johnson. That is cute though, Poppy Bell. Yeah, and Marley and Lola had picked the middle name because they really like Disney but we're not going to tell her that. But we think we're going to change the middle name just to really stress some shit. Poppy Bell does sound a lot like a flower. It does. Aren't there like flowers called Bell something? I'll Google it. I think that they're both a flower, yeah. No, they're called – no one cares, do they? No.

Mission Bells or the Californian Poppy. Sweet. You're good. As long as the middle name's not California. Or Mission. Or Mission. No, no, no, you're good. Something we do need to talk about, which is far more exciting, is... Yeah, my new career. I do have a new career. I am going on tour.

As a dancer. You were amazing. Okay. So Brit is- You guys always have to say that. You always have to be my biggest support. Well, you don't have to be. There have been times in the past. You haven't. My marriage to Ben. When I met Ben. No, the marriage was so supportive. Sorry, not the marriage. Yeah, don't- When I hooked up with Ben. Yeah. It was early days. Years ago. Yeah, okay. We'll scoot past that. I was not supportive of your snort and I'm still willing to stand by that. Yeah, or Lorcano actually. There's a whole lot-

whole list of things you guys haven't been supportive of. We do love you though so much. Nice you've come full circle. Deeply. So Britt's on Dancing with the Stars currently and it's such a like nice full circle thing. I feel like so Matt did it first then I purely did it in protest so that I could you know have some time to myself and then now Britt has done it. I trailed along. But you

You are by far the best. Like it is insane how good you are at this. And like Keisha and I went and watched a couple of the shows in real life and kind of everything was pre-recorded. I don't know if we're allowed to say that. Well, yeah, I think it's all out there because you post about it at the time. So the way it's done is it is recorded in advance with a live audience because a lot of people have been writing saying, I thought it was live. It is. Like you were dancing. Everything is like you get one shot.

The live audience is there. They can put their votes in. The judges score you. But the end of the show will be a live audience vote. Like when we're talking about finale, deciding the winner, that is live to Australia. Yeah. So what you mean is, is like it's filmed live. It just doesn't show on air live. And like with the finale, I don't know if your season's the same, but when we did it, they film multiple endings. So they film, if there's a possibility that you're going to win, they did the same thing with I'm a Celebrity with the last three contestants. Yeah.

Every contestant does like a, woo, I won. But you actually don't find out until the night that it airs on TV whether you actually did win or not. Yeah. It's exactly the same thing. They film multiple endings again. So no one on the show knows who won. And like no one's faking it when they say that. Like no one actually knows. So you do your dances. You know how you go week to week. But no one knows what happens. Yeah. And it is interesting because for all of those shows, I'm a Celebrity, Dancing, Bachelor, Bachelorette,

You can bet on them, on sports bet and things like that. Bachelor and bachelorette's different. You do know if you've won or not. They don't just surprise you or not. In the sense of when money is involved, when you can bet on something, they can't rig the ending. So a lot of people think these things are rigged and maybe they're, you know, maybe they're pushed in a direction or they're encouraging an audience to go one way, or we know there's manipulation and storylines in all of those reality shows. But

But when it comes down to the actual finale and the end and a winner, when there is money involved in any capacity, like sports bet, you can't fake it. Like they have a legal obligation. I thought it was because they donated money. I thought it was because there's like a big cash prize that they give to a charity. As well. Yes. Right. Okay. But if there's anything, any money related in any capacity. So whether it is a charitable donation or whether it is sports bet and people putting money on it.

Yeah. Interesting. Cause that was something really interesting for me to learn. Like I'd been in media for a long time before I actually realized, cause you know how everyone's like, oh, it's also rigged. It's all set up from the start, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, they all know who's going to win. And, and I found out that when there's a lot of money involved in terms of like gifting it, same as I'm a celeb, dancing was the same, um,

They can't do that. They actually have to go off of the audience votes. It's like a legal obligation in Australia that they have to do it based off of what actually comes in as the winner. Yeah, the way that they can curate a result though is through the edits. So encouraging the people who are watching to vote in certain ways based on the way people are shown on the show. So they can definitely massage it in a direction but they can't manipulate the votes once the votes come in. I mean this is kind of a bit of a blanket statement across free-to-air TV in general at the moment because

Reality TV in Australia used to be live. It used to be a huge event that, you know, we would all go home after school or after uni, whatever you're doing, work, sit down with the family and watch the finales of these massive shows. And they garnered enormous audiences in the millions.

that's just simply not the case anymore. The opportunity of choice when it comes to like streaming and everything else has meant that there's not as much money in free to air TV. There's certainly not as much money in reality and live TV and live TV is so expensive to create. So filming these multiple endings means that the production costs can be reduced. And that's why, I mean, even with I'm a Celeb, I think they saved so much money.

by doing multiple endings rather than having them over in Africa for several more days. And it's not even just that. It's also like it's quite fascinating, but it's also the TV timeline schedule through a year. So everybody knows when they want, when I say everybody, every show or network or station, they know when they hope to have their show go live because it has to go live every

against other networks? What other shows are they going to be up against? When is there a free period in time slots for 12 weeks of TV? That doesn't always coincide with having literally a Dancing with the Stars Disney studio available to film. So there's a lot of, it's actually logistically so hard to film and air shows like that, especially live. And I think that was a big thing with dancing now. It was really hard to find the spaces. You need all the studio spaces for

for weeks for these couples to be practicing. You need Disney studios to be free for all this time for the production. It doesn't coincide with when they want things to air. And now I'm in that world. I totally understand it. But then I understand why it's difficult for the audience to watch and understand because people want live. People miss that. And I think it's really cool to be live. If it would be live, it'd be amazing.

Like some of the things that did go down on the show would have been amazing live. And you know that they're going to get edited out. And you know that they're not going to make the cut. And I wish one day we can talk about it, but we probably can't. But yeah, so I think it's a fascinating look from the outside in at the way that the TV world works. What was it like for you watching the episode and seeing? Because like when you're doing it, it always feels different to when you actually get to watch it on screen. Yeah.

I've been on a real roller coaster with how I feel about it. And I was messaging. So Craig, my dance partner lives in Melbourne. So like we were texting. I felt really good in the couple of days before I did it. And I was like, okay, I know this inside out. I've got it.

Then when I did it, the dance on the night, I was like, this is a disaster. It was amazing. I felt like I missed steps. It felt like I was slow. I was out of time. And if you've watched it, I briefly mentioned this, but you get to do a practice run, which is a practice run for you, but it's a full dress rehearsal. They have the lights going off and they want you to feel what it's like so that you can just nail it. They also need to see what it's going to look like.

And in the dress rehearsal before, I had so many disasters. I got extra runs because my outfit kept coming off. My heel was getting caught in my skirt. It was like ripping it down to the ground. I couldn't get through the dance without my skirt coming off because it just wasn't made right, which is why they do it. And it just rocked my confidence when I went out there because all I could think about was my clothes coming off in the middle of the dance.

Can I tell you though, because I was there and that whole experience was actually quite, it was so interesting to me because obviously we went to yours, Laura, but yours was at a different venue. Going into Disney Studios, like a bit of behind the scenes.

We were walking to come and see you perform and it was all ticketed and you had to get all these things checked off and blah, blah, blah. And as we're walking through, I took a selfie of all of us to send to you to be like, we're here. Can't wait to see you. The security came over to me and they were like, you cannot take any photos here. You must remove that. They made me go into my recently deleted and delete it from there as well. And I was like, don't look at all the other things in this.

Yeah, keep scrolling past. It was so strange. Like the whole process behind TV production was really different to when we went to go and see Laura. But it's...

every single one of us that were there to watch you and all of the crowd as well because we were on the family and friends side so we don't get to vote for who we want to do well because it would be very biased for obvious reasons but we kind of got to speak to some of the other family and friends and all of us were like she did so well oh my gosh she was so good and I was really confused because at the time I could see that you were like you were a bit rattled I could see

that you were a little bit like, oh, you know, I did it so much better in practice. And I was like, what is she talking about? She was so good. It's different because you're not a professional dancer like me, Keisha, so you didn't get to see the steps that I missed. Well, well, well. I think it was like a week later because I went to three of the filmings. Once I saw you dance the second time, I don't know if I'm giving a little bit away,

I was blown away and I was like, oh, this makes sense why she thought she was shit in the first one. You also don't want to pee too early. I went and saw Brit as well and she was so good. Like, let's get that mirror ball, girlfriend. It's happening. Okay, well, listen. Everyone tune in. Sunday nights. It's happening. So I did the dance and I was hard on myself, right? But I still knew that I did it like pretty well. I put the energy in. It wasn't any big mistakes. I just knew there were a few steps. But I also thought, oh my God, it's night one. Like,

That'd be nice. It'll be fine. How far out, man. They came down on me like a lead balloon. Everyone else was pretty nice, but have a listen to this.

For me, you looked like you were drunk and lost to the party, I'm afraid, darling. Every spin you weren't spotting. It was very stiff. There was no hip action because of that. It was too upright. And as Shana said, your weight was too far back. You need to point your feet in lifts, my darling. If you're going to do them, you don't want a clumpy foot. But I have to say, I loved the amount of energy you gave us. And we can see the commitment there.

But you've got to laugh. He did you a bit of a shit sandwich. He gave you a compliment at the very end. But your face in that moment, I know that you posted this and it was like slowed down. But do you see you being like – Yeah, totally. The floor is lava. But I had – if you watch it, if you haven't watched it, have a look. I put the dance on my Instagram. But I had so much fun. Like I couldn't get the smile off my face. And –

That's what I've got to remember going through this. I've got to remember that at the time I was having the time of my life. I don't think there was anyone who had a better time on Dancing with the Stars than Laura Byrne though. Like the smile on your face. No, it was a bit manic. I've never seen a big... Even on your wedding day. I seriously look like I took psychedelics when I was on Dancing with the Stars.

Because, and you'll know, Laura, this is why, right? They tell you that like if you think you're leaning into the feeling, like because you've got to feel the dance. If it's serious, it's serious. Sexy, romantic, romantic, happy, whatever. But they're like you've got to do that feeling on steroids to get it across on TV. It's like OTT. But I think Laura took that a little too far. No, to be honest, and in my defense, I actually did have the time of my life. And I think the reason for that is because, I mean, I've

probably talked about it before. I was so in my head when we did Bachelor. Like I did not enjoy the experience at all, even though now I look back on it and I can see that there were so many things about that experience that were just absolutely insane. So wonderful. I wish I could go back and do it again and not have been so negative about it the whole time. Obviously now, easy to say because it was a great outcome, but

I really went into doing Dancing With The Stars because I've only done the two reality shows but I went into that experience and I was like I don't care what happens I'm just here to have a good time I'm not a professional dancer I don't care if I suck but I will care if I am so hard on myself then I look back

on another experience and I didn't enjoy it because I couldn't just like see the joy and the fun in it. And it really changed my mindset around it and I had so much fun. And that was the one thing I kept saying to you, Britt. I was like, please just enjoy it because you will regret not if you, you know, six months time when it's all over and you wake up and you're like, oh, that was so hard. I kind of fucking hated that I didn't just appreciate what it was in the time. No, I mean, I'm...

Bit of a reality TV vet now. Definitely done the rounds. I don't think there's anything else left. Wait, are you having it? Is there? Come on. You've got a renovation show, The Block. Oh, what else is there? You'd be terrible on The Block. The Apprentice. I've seen you put flat pack furniture together. You'd be terrible. Naked and Afraid or Naked and Alone, what was the one we were talking about just before? I have a lot of potential, Keisha. I have a lot of potential. No, there's heaps of stuff I haven't done. I'm joking, but I also have done a lot of stuff. Okay.

I love reality TV. I love it. But what I feel like that has given me a gift because now I genuinely don't care. I just go in and like I gave this show more than I've given any other show. Like it was completely unfiltered me. It was every ounce of energy and dedication I could have. I think I trained longer and harder than, I don't want to say that anyone there, but I'm pretty sure I did because I was still working full-time jobs. Everyone else had time off their work. But I just was like if I'm going to do this, I'm just going to leave

it all out there on the dance floor. I'm going to leave those sparkles and sequins out on the dance floor. And I think that's what I did. And I'm not expecting, I wasn't expecting, I don't want anyone, Keisha and Laura are obviously my biggest supports. They are possibly making me sound better than I am. I don't want anyone to think that I'm going to go ahead and be a superstar. But what I will say is like, I fucking tried so hard. All I have to say is watch out Bindi Irwin, because next you're going to be on like Strictly Dancing or whatever it is in the States. Take me, take me. But Bob Irwin,

on it now. Like he's literally over there. He just bypassed Australia. Straight to America. It's on Sunday nights for anyone who wants to watch it. And this coming Sunday, because so Brit will be on every rotating week, every second week to start with. Apparently. Because they kind of split them into group A, group B. That's really edging us.

I know. You've got to wait a fortnight to get a bit more of the Brit. But Osher is on this week and I really want to see that as well. Do you? Yeah, I feel like I've really invested in it. I really want to see Osher dance. Yeah, so interestingly, Osher's –

partner is my partner's fiance. So there's like a real competition. Like so funny when we first started dancing, the training, Osher was in like down the hallway from us because you get put in studios, but you're not supposed to speak to each other. You're not supposed to look at each other. And we like, Osher and I have seen each other loads over the years. He's been on the podcast, but I never really asked him this. We ran into each other in the corridor and I was like, look, we're going to be working together here for a little while. I was like, let's just set the record straight. He goes, here we go. I was like, did you or did you not know? I was like,

I couldn't care less. I'm married. It's been eight years. I don't care. But just let me know. And he said, I swear to God, I didn't know. He didn't know that I was going to get dumped by the honey badger at the end because there was a bit of an assumption that like there's no way the honey badger could have not told any of the production or anything. No, they didn't know. They didn't know. I don't even think that his management knew. Anyway, moving along.

A big discussion we've been having here over the last couple of days, and it is something that has been playing out hugely across socials recently. I'm sure you guys would have seen it, but it's a question. Would online trolls troll less if they couldn't do it under a cloak of anonymity? This comes off the back of

Indy Clinton being handed a 64 page document that outlines all of the trolls that have been harassing her for years. Yeah. And if you don't know who Indy Clinton is, she is a huge content creator. She's got a really big audience on TikTok, a couple of million. She is really into the mom content. She got three little kids. She won TikTok content creator of the year in 2023 and she hosted last year and she's very, very big in that space. Yeah. And I guess

a little bit more context on her as well is like she was known as being like this very unfiltered mummy blogger just exposing she's very young she's only in her like you know mid-20s now and she had three babies back to back and so she had this like chaotic unfiltered life that would play out on TikTok now more recently she's come into the headlines because she had some plastic surgery she had a nose job and the internet was really fucking angry about it and she ended up having to have some time off socials because of how horrible the trolling was that she's received yeah

We never even spoke about that aspect. But the thing that I think is really important to note here is too, is she was really open about that whole thing. She documented the whole thing. It's not like she like snuck away and tried to pretend nothing happened and said, oh, I just use skincare and, you know, this is my face. She was really open and documented it. And the trolling she got off the back of it, people weren't angry that she got plastic surgery as such.

People were angry because they didn't like her appearance. They thought she got the wrong kind of nose job or they were so brutally, horrifically mean about her appearance more so than anything. The commentary that she receives would be unrelenting, like when you've got millions of followers. But she said that people loved her when she was just a hot mess, when she was the most depressed that she's ever been in the trenches of motherhood.

And she said, and now that she's coming out of that, she's got time for herself. She's exercising. She's really proud of the way she looks and her body. And then she's also gone and had this plastic surgery done. She's like, people have started to hate her. That's how it feels online, that people hate that she's no longer suffering and that she's enjoying the person that she is and stepping into herself again. Now, going back to this 64 page report, this is the outcome of enlisting a private investigator who has spent three months

getting the information of the trolls who have been harassing her for some of the months, some of them years. These trolls, and this is the problem, right? Like we have an understanding or a thought that like trolls are just these people who sit in the basement writing awful things,

People who have really depressing, awful lives. But what she's discovered is that it is quite a few mums themselves who are doing this. A lot of these women who are trolling her and have been harassing her for years actually live in Melbourne. She said that she has so much information around them that she knows the hospitals that they were born in. She knows the names of their gynecologists. Have a little listen to this.

I literally know every detail down to your ABN and down to where you gave birth at Francis Perry Hospital, even to your gynecologist. Another beautiful troll of mine, you regret your evil eye tattoo you got when you were 18. You know what? I regret a tattoo I got when I was 18 too. I have a moon. I feel like with an evil eye, it's meant to look after you, but I guess if you're trolling, it's not going to do that. You know what I mean?

There's been a huge outpouring online from other influencers who have probably experienced very similar things but have never known or been able to do anything about it because for so long these trolls and people who write horrible comments have been able to get away with it because nobody knows who their identity is. The fact that she has made the statement that she now has the information of who the trolls are but she isn't going to release it publicly has also caused quite a controversial stir online because

A lot of people are saying, well, why do they deserve the anonymity now that you know? Like they've spent years trolling you. Dox them. Put their information out, you know, like as in like pay it back. Personally, I quite like that she's taking the higher road and she is saying I'm going to take the higher road.

It would be quite contradictory of her to then go and dox these people to 2 million people of her followers. Like that is going to cause an onslaught of people to go to these, whoever they are, that she has said that a lot of them are like mums from Melbourne, for example. Do I think she's going to do something with this information? Absolutely. I think she is going to take a private road. I'm sure she is going to get her lawyers to send cease and desist to them privately. I'm sure she's going to threaten legal action to them privately in hopes that it stops. She hasn't done this for no reason.

But it will be interesting to see if she ends up taking any of them to court. Personally, I like that she isn't going to go and rinse every single one of them to her 2 million followers. Well, yeah, we all have kind of slightly different opinions on this. And I think we can get into the conversations around what are the consequences for being a troll online. But the reason why we wanted to talk about this, we know that indie is being covered quite a bit in the last couple of days. And I'm sure a lot of you are across what has happened there. But this has also come at the

same time as another very big movement in terms of online trolling. So there is a website that up until recently, I did not even know exists, but, and then we talked about whether or not we should even shine a light on it, whether it was just pointing, I guess, like more eyes towards a website that really is like not worth the fucking space on the internet that it takes up. It's the cesspit of the internet. But it's called Tattle or Tattle Life. So

So for those of you who don't know what Tattle Life is, it's an online gossip forum and it has literally endless threads featuring any influencer that you can think of. There's a very big portion of it that's UK based. But the reason why it was originally created is it was created as a way to try and keep influencers responsible in a very unregulated space. So for influencers who are monetizing their

content. Maybe they were using their children online in their content as well. It was a place for kind of like vigilantes, I guess, to get together and talk about the problematic nature of it. Now, I would say it's very much regressed from that. And because it itself, Tattelife, is highly unregulated, it really is just a cesspool of people's nasty comments and nasty trolling.

I just think we're even being too nice. It's fucking disgusting and abysmal and should not exist. Like it is the worst place you could go to on the internet. It is horrific. It's malicious. It's fabricated. It's not real. There's death threats. There's doxing. And it has all,

always been run by one anonymous person. We don't know if it was a man, a woman, what they did, who they were, their age. Interestingly, the person who had been running it and creating it was under the pseudonym of a female. And I think because women also have this, like, there's this expectation that women are the ones who gossip, right? So it just kind of made sense that it was a female behind Tattle Life.

The person who created it is actually a man. His name is Bastion Derwood and he himself was an influencer and a content creator. He's the owner of a company called Nest and Glow.

He's a vegan and vegans should know better. Like vegans, vegans. There's a vegan in the room. But vegans always are really, I shouldn't say always, they're not. But like you think that they're really good people and they're not. He's the ultimate, sorry vegans are, he's the ultimate troll. The reason why his identity has become known is because there is a couple in Ireland, Neil and Donna Sands. Now they have been

the victims of this online trolling and abuse because of Tattle for years. This has been a three-year court case that's finally resulted in not just his identity being unmasked, but he's being charged with £300,000 in payments towards him and also paying all of their legal fees, which is a huge amount and a huge sum as well.

Now, the king of anonymity has been unveiled. And from there, it is going to filter down. And one of the things that the judge said, a day of reckoning will come for those behind Tattle Life and for all of those individuals who posted on Tattle Life and contributed to it. Wow.

I love this. And I think for anyone who follows any type of influencer around the world, over the weekend, there was this real collective strength in people posting, whether it was Australian people saying, well done, Indie, you're going after these trolls, whether it was people from the UK who had been quite literally abused because of this Tattle Life website. They were all just coming out being like, good, finally, we are taking back a little bit of power. There's a particular

Thank you.

And it was about seven minutes. So I've cut this down just to save a little bit of time. But this is what she had to say about the whole incident. If you have never frequented or been made aware of that particular troll site, it was a hate-filled, demonic... I mean, you've never known the like. This isn't people just saying she's a fat, ugly hoe. That's nothing. That's like very 2010. This is systemic, persistent, consistent abuse.

death threats. You've never known anything like it. You wouldn't think it existed had you not seen it with your own eyes. I mean, it was all fabrication. People would literally go on there and go, I used to work with her and she holds satanic rituals in the basement of her building in Carnaby Street. And people would go, oh my God, does she? We should go and get the police. We should stop her. Like you've ever had an office in Carnaby Street or a basement or you've ever had a satanic ritual. This is how

ridiculous it was. But then it took a twist and they started going after children. They only took down the multi, multi double digit page threads about Deb, the bowel babe, the day she died. I mean, it's sick. And then they came after my family. They published my mortgage deeds. They

They published private documents that you'd have to go into a website to pay to download. They paid to download them and then publish them. They posted pictures of my granddaughter in my home. These people are vile pieces of shit.

The other thing is, if you've ever been trolled, just take heart and know that it's always someone more pathetic and sad than you will ever be. And the proof is in the pudding because one of the stupid bitches who trolled my family was someone we knew. It was clearly by what she'd written and she was easily identifiable, a mum from their school. And the reason I'm telling you this is because she was the vicar's wife.

My point is, this isn't people overreacting to just a basic troll website. What this site did was take your life, strip it back to the carcass, put every piece of your life online, dissect it to the nth degree, slag you off in ways that you didn't even know were possible. But know this.

if there is any way we can find out the posters, I will happily out you. I don't give a shit. I will go broke if I have to. If I know who you are and it's proven that you are who you are, baby, your face is going on my socials. So I just want to finish by saying a huge congratulations to Neil and Donna Sands who took on Tattle and won. Whatever they need help wise, I'm here. We're all here. You've fucked with us all for too long. Those of us with means, I'm happy to help them in any way I can to bring you down and anyone who's lived on that troll site for years.

I hope you are shitting yourself. I hope you are. I hope you have the rest of you had a lovely weekend because I'm going to sleep with bells on my toes.

Bless her. And this is a good thing, right? She's absolutely minted this woman because she's so successful and she's like, fucking be afraid because I'm going to bring you down. This is the problem though, right? Like the thing is, these are people who have the resources to do something about it. And I think that that's something that Indy Clinton has proven. Like she has the money, she has the ability, she has the time and she hired a PI investigator for three fucking months to go after these people. And she's

She's able to do something about it. Whereas for so long, I think so many people just thought, oh, well, we can say these things. It's my opinion and I get away with it. Yeah. And I think this is where the conversation becomes even more interesting is there's a lot of people that are saying, well, you know, you're in the public eye. You chose this life. This is part and parcel. You shouldn't be so offended if someone has a difference in opinion to you.

That's not what this is. And Carolyn really specified that there. She really honed down on exactly what specifically Tatl is. It is not someone having a difference in opinion. It is not just your average troll site, which is bad enough, or your average troll comment. It takes it to another level where they are out in your addresses, your mortgage personal details, your children, your grandchildren, the schools they go to. There was one woman in relation to Tatl who was

had only ever made 500 pound on Instagram. Like she wasn't an influencer that was raking in millions of dollars, which is what the sole purpose of Tatl said it was, right? So that's like a thousand Australian dollars ever. She was pregnant. She was completely doxxed. She wrote to Tatl and she said, hey, like,

I'm scared for myself and my unborn child. I think someone's going to break into my house and kill us. She had to take a week off to deal with the anxiety. Please take this thread down saying where I live, the people that are hating me and sending me death threats. And they didn't. And of course, if you're in the public eye, you are always going to be open and you should welcome

constructive criticism. You should welcome a difference in opinion. You should be able to have those conversations if that's all it is. But this is not. This is that on steroids. I just think what is so fascinating to me is that for so long, and I've seen you guys both deal with it independently and together through our work, people have just been able to get away with whatever the fuck they want to say online. And they can have 12 different Instagram accounts. It's completely anonymous. You can't trace it back. And it's kind of just been to put your hands in the air and go, oh, well, what can we do?

I love the fact that now with technology the way that it is and people who have the money and the resources, they're actually able to do something about this because it's just been such a consequence-free, awful thing that so many people have had to deal with for years. And like Carolyn said, this is not just, oh, you're an ugly person or I don't like that outfit. Which that does exist on there as well. And that's not what we're talking about. We know that there are forums out there that just says mean things and I could not care less about that.

It's not nice and I'm not saying that it's okay. Yeah, you don't have to like my wedding dress. You can tell me I look like a stripper, whatever. But do you think that people would say as many of these things, even like the whole vast range that goes from just saying a mean comment to saying something that is completely, you know, illegal or doxing or, you know what I mean? There's a whole variety of things. Do you think that they would do it if there was a chance that they could be caught out, that they could be traced back to who they are and that could be exposed to the people in their lives?

People would be way more considerate with what they actually write. The reason why people are able to write whatever the fuck they want with the level of venom is because there's no consequences. And I think, you know, if there's the possibility that's going to get sent to your work or it's going to get sent to your family members, like imagine finding out that your auntie spends her life

fucking every second night on a website bitching about some influencer online who she doesn't know. What a loser. Imagine finding out your partner did. You would be so embarrassed to know these people. They are the people. Bastion's a dad. He has a family. He's a vegan.

No, but he is a dad and an influencer and a normal person and a chef and he makes money off it and he's a vegan and he's all fucking, you know. Stop calling everyone vegans. But I'm just listing what he is. But that's what I'm saying. They're the people that you don't expect. Do you know, it's like they often say it's people in your world, your sphere or your realm that you might have worked with or worked in the same spaces or have a similarity. And similarity is in terms of like maybe you're all mothers. Like it's other mothers trolling mothers. It's people in that world. Totally.

Do we think this is going to change anything? And that is the big question. I would love to see more people doing this, more people being able to take action and find the funds to go down this track. But this was...

the fact is a three-year lawsuit with millions of dollars that people don't have. And like, let's be honest, Laura and I have experienced this, like Keisha said, we've experienced this so many times with completely fabricated, malicious stories. Like there have been things written and said about Laura and myself that

That we look at each other and we're like, where did they even get that from? And they're defaming. They are horrific. Laura and I have sought legal action before. We have sought counsel. We've spoken to people saying, hey, like, just so we know what options can we have here? And like, let's talk about it.

I know other people in this space, we all do, that are also doing the same thing simultaneously. Like this is happening more and more. And I do hope that we see a bigger change and maybe it will result in some further legislation. Maybe it goes back down to Google and Meta and everyone else that maybe has a bit more responsibility on what they are allowing on their sites.

But I think it's a long way away. I think the disappointing thing is I'm not convinced that this will shift the dial. I am excited by the fact that like Indy, for example, she's clearly been very affected by what she's experienced. I am excited for her that this creates some sort of psychological peace for her. We've got your back, Indy. Yeah, and she's able to, I guess, get some sort of solace. I don't think that it will shift the dial across the board because...

Companies like Meta, the foundation of how they make income is to have as many users on their site as possible. They do not care if you have 17 accounts, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. And it's actually a detriment for them to clean up anonymous accounts because it then looks like the overall volume of users on their accounts is smaller, like on the platform is smaller. And that then affects their bottom dollar. They want to seem to have trillions and trillions and trillions of users.

So, I mean, if they wanted to clean up anonymous accounts, they could. If they wanted you to put an ID or a, you know, put some sort of personal information to your accounts, they could do that. They often argue the case that it could be then a breach of privacy and then they're holding all this personal data. They've got your data anyway. They have so much more data than what a government ID would give. TikTok only.

you. Totally. They have all your data. So like if you're using TikTok, if you're using Instagram, them asking for a fucking copy of your license and then a photo of you alongside it is not going to be the thing that saves you from having your data stolen. It's already all there. But I don't think that it's going to shift the dial hugely. What I do think it's going to do is for those people who are influencers, who have the funding and the means to

and who are aggressively and horrifically trolled and who do experience things like doxing and things that are high-level trolling. I'm not talking about you calling someone horrible names, but your high-level trolling, it will give them the confidence to know that there's something they can do about it because it shows them the route that someone else has taken and the positive outcome that that person has had. The question I have for you guys, though, is what we just discussed at the beginning. Is it equivalent when an influencer who has millions of followers is

millions and millions of eyeballs and a lot of people who clearly back them in the case of Indy.

Find out who their trolls are and know that it's just, you know, it's some mum who's got four kids, who lives in suburban Australia, who is in a job that doesn't fulfill them. Is it an equivalent sort of retribution to post their image, their face publicly on social media? Because what you're doing is you're sending your millions of followers to that one person as a consequence for their actions, but they don't have any ability to defend themselves.

I'm kind of laughing here because we spoke about this before we started recording and I felt quite differently to the two of you. And I just want to make it really clear, Indy's not doing that. As you guys have said, she's choosing to not release that information. And my immediate response was, fuck them. Fuck them. Like they have caused so much harm. They've actually done, and this is not like you said, it's not like one comment. This is relentless. This is like consistent abuse, right?

And I just wonder why the fuck they've been able to get away with it for so long. And the thing that you were just saying about meta that I find really interesting is that we're talking about, you know, this debate of what's a bigger priority of privacy or whether we should have some type of like traceable accountability on these social media platforms. We're talking about in terms of influences. We're talking about in terms of adults.

This also extends to bullying of children. Like, and we're seeing the Australian government be like front runners in bringing in this social media age of 16 that users have to be. I would love to see Australia be a front runner in going, the effects of cyber bullying are so horrific that,

It is a bigger priority than what we think your privacy is on these apps. We're actually going to bring in a system that you have to have a traceable government ID attached to these accounts so that if you are the person who is doing this, if you're the person who is relentlessly bullying and attacking certain people online and sending horrendous things and doing horrendous things, you're going to be held criminally responsible for it. I know it's extreme.

I would support it to the ends of the earth. I would sign my name on anychange.org because the effects. You've got a few burner accounts. I just mean like,

The effects of this stuff can be so severe. And I think it's really beautiful that you guys both have so much empathy for the trolls in this situation, especially considering that you've experienced it. Like I find it quite... No, that's not right. I don't have empathy for the trolls. My thing is it's not black and white. There are people that I post on my Instagram if I think enough's enough or whatever, but I don't usually post... I think it comes with its limitations. Yeah.

Quite often I will share a comment to my story that someone has written publicly from their profile. It's already there for people to see, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not doxing someone. I'm not doxing them. They've said it. Their profile is public. Anyone can go and look at it. And sometimes I do it to laugh at it. I don't say, I'm like, ha, ha, ha, this is funny, whatever. But it's still rude. But...

When I have a problem with it is when there are people with huge followings that are sharing private conversations that are doxing people that might be not even quite involved in whatever the issue was. They're like surrounding people. They're people that are guilty by association. And when it's quite malicious and aggressive and it's very intentionally, hey, like let's set out all my followers on this person. I do have problems with that because I've been on the receiving end of hate before and I know what it feels like and I have a

thick skin and I get it all the time and I'm aware of it and I still know what it feels like. So there is a part of me where if someone has just written something that they don't agree with you, maybe it is rude and then you're doxing them and then hundreds of thousands of people going to abuse that mum in Melbourne of three. Like I just know what it feels like. So I think if you don't have to take that avenue all the time, don't.

Tattle fucking docks every single one of them. That is a cesspit and that is next level. So I don't care about that. So it's not that I have sympathy for trolls, but I am hyper aware of the consequences of a pile on and a public cancellation. Yeah. Maybe my opinions on it has changed over the years. When I was in the thick of the nastiness, which was there was an old forum long before Tattle and it was called the Batch and Batchette Forums.

And it started off as a sleuthing site, but it really was just pages and pages, hundreds of pages of horrible, horrible comments about every single contestant on The Bachelor. It's really prolific in the US. Obviously, it probably doesn't exist in Australia anymore, but it rattled me and it rattled my mental health really badly.

I, since then, and since I kind of like got over that part of my life, I didn't read it and feel sad or angry or anything. I read it and I was like, wow, you, and I, I look, I,

Some people might think this is being harsh. I read it and I was like, if you had the capacity to spend your time talking in this way about influencers who are out there living their life and they're happy and you're spending your time so obsessed watching their stories, writing about their lives and

trying to unpick the things that you think you know about them. You are a loser. Not only are you a loser, you have a parasocial relationship. You might deny it. You might not think it's a parasocial relationship, but you're obsessed with them and it's just a negative one. It's the exact same thing. You're a mega fan, just a weird shitty one.

And to me, that is such a sad place to be. And yeah, I kind of just feel sorry for them, to be honest. I do. The problem is that's a really privileged... I love that you feel like that and my skin's thick now. I love that I feel like that. It's a very privileged feeling. It's taken years, eight years to get to this place of it not affecting my mental health and not caring. Now it just...

I really genuinely am like...

And if there is consequences for one of them, will that then set the precedent? Is the threat of someone being exposed enough to make people who are doing this stop?

The threat isn't, no. I don't believe that. I don't believe just the threat of like, oh my God, I could be next. It probably excites them. They probably get off on it. I don't think that anyone's stopping at the moment. No. Do you reckon that if Indy were to turn around and go, well, these are the names of the people and those people lost their jobs, their family were ashamed of them. Yes. Do you then think that people who are trolls would go,

Oh, that could be me next. I do think that if Indie actually did take that stance and started to publicly show their faces, I do think that that would have, it would have an impact for a period of time because, you know, like we know with everything that happens in the media, it has like a hype reaction. Everyone kind of like latches on and it has a momentary impact and then everyone goes back to the way that it was before.

My only thing, though, is is that consequence? Does that consequence for those individuals outweigh the overall good that that does? Because I would dare say that if Indy did expose the names of these Melbourne mums who have been saying and doing horrible things, they will lose their jobs. They will be affected. The amount of trolling that they will receive is

I actually think it would have such severe psychological impacts on them and they are not prepared for it because they've not had years of growing into a social media space. They would just fucking crumble under that. Yeah, but then I think there are plenty of those trolls that have

contacted influencers jobs and lost their work. They're contacting the people they work with, charities they work with. They're taking away their livelihood. That's what happens on Tattle. It's what happens not on Tattle. Like there are definitely people in Australia that contact people's work and try to get them to lose work.

In that case, fucking yeah, maybe you do have to lose your job. If you're causing other people to lose their job, actions have to have reactions and they have to have consequences. It's so hard to say whether or not the good outweighs the bad or the bad outweighs the good in terms of having repercussions if you out someone and what happens to them. It's also not a halfway punishment. No. Which I acknowledge, you know, it's kind of an all or nothing, which is hard to kind of

find peace with, I guess. I just, yeah, I don't know. Both of these stories coming out at exactly the same time has given me a bit of gusto to be like, maybe there is hope that cyberbullying will shift in the future. And maybe I'm being a little bit like glass too full in that kind of thought process. But I've just seen this happen for so, so, so long with so many people hurt and affected, including children, including teenagers who have ended up taking their lives because of cyberbullying. And I just don't

don't accept the fact that we go, oh, well, Meta doesn't want to lose users, so there's nothing we can do about it. There's nothing that we can do to stop these people causing more harm to other people. And the reality is, is that for as long as tech companies kind of wipe their hands to this and it

becomes a problem that people have to individually pursue either through lawyers or through private investigators, that is something that only the elite and financially wealthy people are able to put resources to. So for, you know, people who are making an average income on social media, or maybe they're not even making an income on social media, they just have some followers. For those people, there's nothing that they can do about it. And so they just have to cop the brunt of that trolling because there is no consequences for that middle ground.

which makes it a really, really unregulated space. You are not anonymous and it's important for people to know that. With the digital footprint and the advancement in technology now, it's going to become so much easier to find out who you are, like to get your data, to get everything about you. Remember that every time you want to go and write something on someone's profile, maybe it's your burner account, whatever it is, you can be found. And I think that it's going to start a whole new movement of people, influencers across the world. They're going to be like, fuck it, I don't care anymore. I'm going to also out you.

All right, it is time for our suck and our sweet of the week. Britt, what is your suck? My suck would have to be, we didn't really speak about it, but I did go to New Zealand with Ben on the weekend and it was like incredible. My suck would be, maybe we'll talk about it next week, but like how Ben has basically almost not gotten into the last three countries that we've gone to within like a week period. So he almost didn't get into Bali for the wedding.

Then he almost didn't get back into Australia. And then we got stopped. He almost didn't get to New Zealand. We almost cancelled the whole trip. We had to be on the phone to like border security because of his visa shit that he fills out. He does my head in. You have to stop making him sound so incompetent. He is incompetent. He filled out.

They cut the visa incorrectly. They wouldn't let him into New Zealand. I know, but people are going to start being like, is this man a child? No, they know I love him. He speaks five languages. I praise him all the time. I know. Can the man fill out a visa form?

Evidently not. But so my suck was that I was messaging Keisha at the time live. I was like, I just need to talk to someone right now because we're not getting to New Zealand. The plane was like an hour. We were boarding in an hour and we're at the desk. They're like, sorry, your visa's not working. Takes three days to get it.

I was like, what's the problem? Anyway. And Britt was like, I'll see you when I get back from New Zealand in three days. I was like, bye, Ben. No. It worked out. What I will say is the lady at the Qantas desk that helped us, she was amazing. She got on the phone to New Zealand because- She got on the phone to the country. She did. She got on the phone to the New Zealand visas because it's not a problem with him or where he's from or what he's doing. He just ticks the wrong boxes. I think he just doesn't read it right. Anyway, he said he was an Australian permanent resident that was going on a trip and coming back.

And they were like, but he's manifesting it. But then when you scan the passport, it knows that you're not an Australian resident. So nothing matched. They wouldn't approve it. So this lovely Qantas worker was on the phone for ages and they ended up like within minutes to go sorting it out, fixing a visa on the spot and like helping him in. So that was both my suck and my sweet simultaneously. And I hope everyone knows that when I bag Ben out like this, it comes from love. Like he stresses me out, but I couldn't love him more.

So yeah, that's my, my, my sweet will be just that somebody decided to go above and beyond to help us. And it literally changed the next week of our life. So it's like, that's a really cool thing. Well,

Well, I feel like everyone in the studio has a bit of a suck this week as well. So Ness, who we've spoken about a little bit, is our video editor and she's also been a really good friend of mine for like the last decade. Ness is the reason why I have Buster. So that's how Buster came into my life and we lived together as co-parenting of Buster for a couple of years there as well. So when you split, you took three legs, she took one? I did.

So how is she? She just keeps Buster's other leg on the mantelpiece so that she can be, you know, like where like we always used to refer to it like Ness was Busty's adopted mom and then I adopted him and we just kind of like we were the co-parent moms that all lived together. And then Ness's partner moved in with us and so Buster had three moms for a period of there. But Ness is a very big advocate for rescue dogs and this week she had to put down Junie and Junie is Buster's like little bestie and just the most

beautiful dog. And yeah, it's been very, very sad. A very horrific time. It's been very sad. And also it's like off the back of just like really sad animal news. Keisha also had to, well, in her family they have a beautiful golden retriever named Duke and Duke also, he was put down in the last, oh, Keisha, you

I was about to say, Ness, I'll edit this so you don't have to edit it. And now I'm like, no, we can both just cry watching this back. But it's also just, I mean, you know. It's a hard week. Yeah, and we are like such big dog lovers in this studio, like every single one of us. And I think it's.

Like they're your family. They're your absolute family. Anyone who's had to say goodbye to a pet because it was the right time and the right thing to do for them, like knows how incredibly hard it is. And yeah,

Yeah. Kiss, to give you pooches a big hug tonight. That's for a must. Yeah, and I definitely like after Nessa's news yesterday and Duke's news last week, I definitely hugged Delilah extra tight last night. I did. I kissed her snout. And then I look at Busty and I'm like, you're getting old, buddy. I know. It's ten and a half and he's real slow. Said that to Delilah last night. And he falls over a lot. Poor bastard. You're a bit chunky, Delilah. I was like, I'm going to put you on a diet. I put Buster on a diet to try and like, I was like, let's claw back some years, buddy. That's what I said. I was like,

all right, let's get that heart back in check. We're going to shed the pounds. He's really, he's really getting slow. It makes me so sad. My sweet for the week is, is that by the time this comes out, which it hasn't happened yet, but it's happening. And I guess it's around her excitement for it. So on Thursday, it is Marley's birthday. She's turning six. How,

How the fuck I have a six-year-old is just, I can't get my head around it. It is weird. I feel like it's also my birthday. It's like six years since I've become a mama. It's the podcast birthday. It's also the podcast birthday. Yeah. So, well, actually in one month's time, I think the podcast birthday is technically on like the 15th of July.

But it's been really sweet. She's just so, so excited. And I think this year having a birthday because it's her first year of school, it kind of is a bit different because she really understands the concept of having a birthday party and choosing her friends that she wants to come. How do you choose the friends? That's so hard. They're pretty kind at school these days. Don't you just like to invite the whole class?

Not the whole class, but she's having like a lot of the girls. Like all the girls that she's kind of like within her group of friends or she goes to after school with, they all are coming. So like they're all invited. But yeah, I do feel like birthday parties are way more inclusive now than what they used to be. You can't give out invitations at school. The invitations have to be sent on WhatsApp. You can't like go and be like, you get one, you don't get one. It's much nicer. That used to be really brutal if you didn't get one. Fun, so brutal. Because you'd see everyone with their envelopes and you'd be like, oh.

Do mine get lost? Also Christmas cards. Christmas cards are also not nice at school. Ban Christmas. Ban Christmas. I remember kids would bring Christmas cards in and unless you're giving a Christmas card to the whole class, don't give out Christmas cards. I'm still scarred.

I was just trying to think. I was like, I don't remember not getting a birthday invitation. No, I'm like, oh, I was that wanker that was invited to everything. Oh, my God, Keisha. I remember. Maybe my school had that rule forever because I don't remember. Maybe your mum was going behind your back being like, you invite my daughter.

Let's get out of here. Keep your accent unfiltered. It's coming into our Instagram Life Uncut podcast. You can put Ask Uncut for your questions, anything you want us to know. The aftermath. If we've ever done a question for you or someone you know and you've got to follow up, send us the aftermath. Sherry's going through them all. We're frothing them and you guys want to see more. So keep them coming. Yeah. And I'm also so interested off the back of this conversation that we've had today around online trolls and everything else.

I really would love to know, maybe we should poll it. Do you think that if somebody has been anonymously trolling someone online and they find out their identity, do you think that they should, and I'm talking about an influence specifically like Indy Clinton, do you think that they should keep that person anonymous? Or do you think that actually the consequences, if you're going to write this shit online, then you have to face up that you said it, you are the person and here's your identity for everyone to know. Do you think that that is a

fair punishment for the crime of being an arsehole online. I'd love to know people's opinions on that because the three of us can't seem to agree. And that's it from us, guys. You know the drill. Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friends and share the love because we love love!