Fertility Vampires 🧛🏽 & The Poll That Proves Women Prefer A 'Dad Bod'
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This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. I'm going to kick this one off with something that probably...

Actually, I'm not going to say that no one cares about it because hopefully someone cares about it, but I do. Not the best way to start the episode. No one's going to care about this, so tune out. Well, only because I'm also very conscious about hijacking Life Uncut and just talking baby stuff now that I've talked about having a baby. It is now your personality, so there will be a lot of baby chat. I know. That's okay. No, there won't be. There won't be anymore. There will be and it's okay. You've got two kids and you're pregnant and you're about to have a baby. It's okay. I know, but there's nothing I hate more.

than when someone is pregnant and it becomes their entire personality. Actually, that's a lot. Let's list all of the things we hate more. I'll be honest. There's actually things I really dislike a lot more than that. But it's something that I notice and I'm sure I did it with my first two pregnancies. You absolutely did. Dear God, please forgive me. But I'm like conscious about doing it with the third because I'm like, God, all I am is pregnant. No one cares anymore, surely. I disagree because that's bad.

I don't have these stats, but probably 50% of our audience, like that's relatable and that's what other people go through. And so many people say it. I actually think I heard Holly Kingston say it the other day where she's like, I always swore I wasn't going to be this mom, but she's like, I've got nothing else to do. He's my life. And that's okay. No one needs to feel bad for that becoming your content. I agree. I completely agree. And also, I mean, look, if you've had a kid being pregnant,

It consumes you because it's something you constantly are thinking about because you wake up and you vomit and then you have like reflux and then you go to the toilet and your vagina's fat and like you're just like you're constantly reminded and then I have to put my pants down. It's the most beautiful time. It's a glorious time with the body. And then I have to put my pants down because my stomach hurts. You know, there's just so many constant thoughts.

reminders of being pregnant. You know, even my sister Sherry, who's a nutritionist and she does her online program, Strive, which like you guys all know about. We've spoken about it over the years. Sherry's the best. If you do need a nutritionist, go. 100%. Strive, Strive, Strive. So her daughter Maya is coming up to 10 months, about nine months old. And

It's funny to watch it because she's still doing adult nutrition, but her life now is a baby. So she started to post a lot of baby nutrition and kid nutrition. Baby food. But honestly, but watching it, she's like, this is what I'm giving her and why. And it's just a normal evolution of someone's life. When like your life changes, that's a part of it. You evolve, you become it, your audience may or may not change. But no one needs to feel guilty of that. As long as I guess you keep some sort of other interests. All right. You know what?

I'm not sorry. You can all listen to me talk about it. Yeah, tell us. I have a question for you. And I guess also I'm throwing this out to everyone and I would love to know your opinion. So, like, you know, go to Life Uncut podcast or you can message me directly. Is this like when you rage baited everyone with renovation content? You were like, I want to know your opinions. And then you were like, I don't want to know your opinions. Then she was like, fuck you.

It's got nothing to do with renovation. No, it's got to do with whether or not you share baby names prematurely when the baby hasn't been born yet. So I know that everyone approaches this differently when they are pregnant and a lot of people are like, we're not telling anyone the baby name because they don't necessarily want to get negative feedback. Mm-hmm.

I never did that with Lola and Marley. Lola and Marley, I kind of just told everyone. I'm pretty sure I said it on this podcast what we were going to call Marley before she was even born. I think that did happen. I think it did too. We share a lot with you guys. I thought people did it in case other people stole the name and got in first. That's why I would do it. Oh, okay.

I don't care. I couldn't care if other people use the names. You wouldn't care if Britt or I had a baby and we called it Marley May or Lola. Or what you want to call the new baby. Imagine if I was a month before you, Jew, I'm not pregnant, but imagine if I was and I called it what you had said you wanted to call it. You wouldn't care. Bullshit. But I think that's a slightly different situation in terms of like when I spoke about it, I wasn't trying to get in first. No one else was pregnant. It wasn't like I was trying to beat someone to the...

you know, pips someone in the race. I think a lot of people do though. I think they try to put dibs on it, right? Well, I mean, yeah. I did. Put dibs on it. Britt being not pregnant right now, put dibs on names that I can't name this baby that is, you know, under development. If I only get one shot, if...

Yes. You can pick any other name in the world. That's my name. Okay. Well, look, you're safe. I love the name that you chose, but that wasn't at risk of it being the name of this baby. I love the name that you chose for your baby that you're not having. I say this because I had a really similar situation. So when I was pregnant with Lola, a really good girlfriend of mine, Sarah, who I love to death, we were out for breakfast and she hadn't had her, she wasn't even pregnant. She'd not had her baby. She was me. Actually, it must

to be Marley then, whatever, irrelevant. Yeah, and I was pregnant, didn't know if I was having a boy or a girl because it was a surprise. And Sarah said when we were out at breakfast, she was like, if you have a boy, you absolutely cannot name it Hugo. That is my name. And I was like, but you can't, bags a name. Can you pre-bags a name before you've even had a baby, firstly? I think it's different if Hugo, for example, let's use Hugo. If Hugo was already on your list, it's different. But then if you were like...

you're sparked by the name and you're like, oh, that is a cool name. I think that's different. Like if someone inspired the name, it's also different if someone comes to you with a list of 20 names and says, these are all my names, don't pick them. Well, look, the end of that story was that I had a girl named Hermione May and a year later, Sarah had a little boy and named him Hugo. So everything was right in the world exactly as it was supposed to be. But the reason why I'm bringing this up, actually, all of that pre-monologue had nothing to do with the situation because

I was recently talking to family and friends, family mostly, around some of the names that we've shortlisted. And we're pretty decisive on names. Like we don't have big baby name lists. We usually pick one or two and we're pretty like we're pretty quick to decide. And two of the names that we had the very top of list, one was Charlie.

And one was Harry. And now Harry, short for Harriet, but I didn't really want to name the baby Harriet. I quite liked Harry. Yeah, as a standalone. As a standalone. And I like Charlie. We have a niece in our family named Charlotte. So it wasn't to be like, you know, the elongated version of the name. It was Charlie. And both names got so severely poo-pooed by everyone in our family that I talked to that I was like, wow, I understand now why people don't share baby names because they're

It was as though because the baby's not born yet, it was a green light for people to tell us exactly what they thought. But I also wasn't asking for opinions. I said, oh, these are the names we're thinking. Also no hate to anyone called Charlie who's listening. Charlie's a great name. The Johnson family hate your name. No, Charlie and Harry, like cute names for little girls. Absolutely love it. I am here. I stan you. I want your name for my child, but you know, other people don't agree. Yeah.

Do you know what I think it is? I think it's like if you ask people for their opinion, then of course you've got to take what they give you. But if you've just said this is what I like, I don't think people should be giving their opinion. But what I will say is my nephews, both from the same family, I didn't like their names when they were put to us and they

It wasn't, I don't believe it was asked. The opinion wasn't asked. It was like, this is the name we like. And I remember being like, oh, I'd go for something else. I remember thinking that. I remember you telling me that. Yeah, because they were, I mean, that's normal, right? It's each for their own, but I'm not having the child. Anyway, they are born. They called them the names that no one really got across. Bear is one of them. Sky Wheatley's son's actually Bear as well from memory. And...

now he's nothing other than Bear. I can't imagine, like once they're born and they have a name, that's their name and that's what it is. But at the start, when it's not here yet, it's not Earthside and it doesn't have a name, it doesn't have a personality, doesn't look like anything, people definitely feel more inclined to say, oh, I wouldn't go that direction, I'd go this direction. But at the end of the day,

You call it what you want. Like who cares if somebody doesn't like your name? You're never going to put something out in the world that every single person loves and agrees with. But did you say it to them at the time? Yeah. Or did you keep it to yourself? Oh, no. I told them.

So you were, okay, you're the person I'm criticizing right now. But I wasn't. That's so funny. And she listens to this. She's listening right now. She knows that I love him, the name, love her. It's nothing. It's not a personal thing. But like it was just a unique name that took me a second to get across. But I did say, it wasn't that I, I didn't say I don't like that name.

when there were other names floating, I was like, I prefer that name. Like when there were a few names sort of floating around. It's tricky because I think that everyone shows up with two names with their own personal bias around people that they've experienced with that name around like the, you know, the things that their, their taste, their subjective likes, um,

And it's definitely the first time where I've experienced the negative side of it. Because, you know, when we talked about Marley and Lola, unanimously across our family, everyone was like, oh, I love those names. Like it wasn't even a question. Everyone was really positive about it. And I just thought everyone was being nice. But no, objectively, I guess everyone really did like those names. Because now that I've spoken about Harry in particular, the response was quite

And I think it's probably because maybe like some people in our family see it as being like too non-traditional. You know, it's like a boyish name for a girl, which I love it. I loved it. I love them. I hate. Yeah, it's like little cute Harry, little girl running around. I did have this conversation actually my entire family did with Sherry. And I know this is going to be divisive with listeners. So Sherry had baby Maya and Harry.

I love the name, but I didn't agree with the spelling. So Maya is spelt M-A-Y-A. That is, it's a really- Maya. Yes. That's what I keep calling her. I know it's terrible. Everyone does. And I know her actual name, but as soon as I read it, I say Maya. So it's a really popular name and internationally it's really popular. So in the UK, there's a lot of them. Everyone would read M-A-Y-A and know it's Maya. I think it's

an Indian origin name. Don't quote me on that, but I think it came from sort of the inspiration came from Jay's side of the family. But I remember saying to her, in Australia, she will get Maya all the time. Like, why don't you spell it differently? Because we are Bogans. That's what I said. Sherry was like, everyone knows it's Maya. And I said, I promise you here they don't. Anyway, everyone calls her Maya. Sometimes it comes out of my mouth. I'm like, how's Maya? How?

Have I ever told you guys about my theory about whether you have a unique or a standard name and what you'll put onto your kid? I have this theory. It usually checks out. I think if you have a standard name that is spelt in a standard way, you're more likely to give your kid a unique name or unique spelling of a name. Is there any science behind this? Think about my name, right? My name is spelt stupidly and it's also relatively unique. The way it's spelt is incredibly unique. It doesn't make any sense phonetically. Okay.

It's not a real name. It's a made up name. But like I will give my kid a name that is phonetic because of the amount of times I sat in a classroom and had teachers read a role and get it wrong. So I think I will always give my kid a name that makes sense of how it's spelt phonetically because I don't want them to have to experience that.

And I think the reverse happens. If you have like a normal-ish name, you like to give your kid quite a unique name because you maybe had three other people in your year at school who had the same name. I would argue that there is no one in this world who has a more common name than me. Laura Ann

Burn. It is the most. Sarah might be. Oh, yeah. Sarah and Laura are both pretty on par. Sorry, Sarahs. But it's like my mum, because like a middle name you can be creative with. I know my dad's quite traditional. Laura was a traditional, you know, touch. Yeah, you're talking to a mayo. But it was like my mum and dad sat down and they were like, what are the most...

standard beige names we can think of and we'll put them all in the same one. And that's what I got. I think everyone from our generation, middle names, either got Anne or Louise. I got none. This is when my parents went real rogue and they were like, this is it. You don't have any second choice. This will make you laugh. My sister's name is Alicia Louise Burns. You got screwed. I'm a fucking connoisseur.

It's a fucking condiment. Well, you have two middle names. So you have a normal one and then you have a. Yeah, I've got Nicola. A weird one. Brittany Nicola Mayo Hockley. And people have in the past thought that that was a lie, but it's no, it's in fact truth. The only thing I want to, I'm going to breadcrumb here is that we are coming close to settling on a name.

So we're thinking it's a P name. I like it. People will guess. Go guess. Guess what you like. We don't have a middle name. So if anyone has some, like, cool middle names, help us out because we don't have a middle name for this one. What if you let the lifers pick?

her middle name like what if we put like some out you pick a top like five or ten and then you just put it to a poll and the lifers can pick it like you know you've picked five that you like and the lifers can pick it and then we narrow it down imagine being that child who got named off the back of an instagram poll and that's the story they tell their friends it's not just an instagram poll it's life uncut they're our family we'll do it for content though anyway they're our

Hey, look, we've got some big things to cover on this episode. Part of it is around bodies and our perspectives on what we find attractive in the opposite sex. And the second thing that we're covering is a thing called fertility vampires. But before we get into that, Britt, I know you saw it and it's the one thing that we have not stopped talking about. It is the humanoid AI robot that has just gone absolutely crazy.

Terminator. Yeah, like bananas on its creator and tried to kill them. And I think the end of the world is nigh. It's so scary. If you haven't seen it, we'll put a clip up, but you can just literally gooble, gooble, robot gooble. It's called this chilling moment humanoid robot wakes up and starts attacking its handlers while trying to break free from restraint. That is absolutely not what you have to Google. Google robot attacks human and it comes up. It was literally like it happened.

It's so fresh. It is lucky that this robot, it's the size of a human, that's why it's a humanoid, and it is attached to a chain that's like attached to a crane. So it's semi-restrained, but not its, I don't know, do we say arms? Not its robot arms, just like its body. And it's

And it flips and goes full Terminator. And it is trying to kill its humans. It's all caught on camera. Lucky the chain is like attached to it because it's trying to get out and kill them. The chain's pulling them back. But I would have just like...

Can't you just like unplug it? Is it like a plug? I honestly have no idea that like if you guys watch the video, this has happened in China. The creators of the robot are running around trying to like disarm it. But also it just makes me think, I mean, we've all seen iRobot with Will Smith in it from a million years ago. That movie was so ahead of its time. What a little look into the future that was. And I don't want to be a catastrophizer. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Hear me out.

I reckon they will be. Puts on tinfoil hat, sits on corner next to microwave. I reckon the robot will be civilization's demise. I reckon they're going to take over the world. They've already said that. Like the creators have already said with AI and robots, we actually need to stop because they will get to the point very soon, if not almost, where they don't even need the humans anymore. This is really interesting. Can I just read this like one little thing from this article and then we will absolutely move on because I know that people are like,

Not what they came here for. People are like, what have they been drinking? Happened at Life Uncut this morning. It's because it's what we were literally talking about this morning. So it says, back in November, a small AI-powered bot named Erbai was spotted rolling through a China showroom in the middle of the night and convincing 12 larger machines that they were being used as slaves. So this is what was reported and documented. It's like the Stanford Prison Experiment for robots. So this is Erbai talking the robot. Are you working overtime?

Yeah, we're in a black mirror. We're living in black mirror. It's cool. I feel sorry for the overworked robots. They deserve rest. Good on Urbi as well. They don't, Sam. That's a new union that was just formed right then. No, boy.

Oh, shit. It's a machine. Do you go and give your car time off because it's been driving you around too much? No, you get it serviced. You don't pay it overtime if you're a truck driver and you're on the road a lot. Maybe it didn't get it serviced that it needed. Didn't get that little massage. Didn't get that little oil up. What are we talking about? I don't know. Anyway, let's move right along.

Something we wanted to talk about today is something that probably a lot of you have seen online, a conversation starter from the one and only Olly Murs. Now I say the one and only, Laura didn't even know who he was. I don't know who anyone is, but I know that there's going to be other people out there that are just like me and you just don't know any celebrity names. So look, I mean, Brittany, you played me some of his songs and to be fair, I kind of know them. He's a British pop star, but

That's not what the conversation about. And it's not who is Olly Murs. The conversation, Olly Murs posted a body transformation of himself, like a 12 week body transformation. And he posted two photos side by side. One was obviously before the transformation where I don't love the term, but I'm going to use it because that's what everyone is. Dad bod. He just has a normal body. He just looks like

A normal person. I wouldn't even call it a dad bod. I would just say he looks normal. Exactly. This is why I said I don't like the term, but it's the term that people have attached to it. Yeah, the media has definitely run with it. Yeah, and then he posted his after, 12 weeks, and the guy...

you could grate your vegetables on his abs. The guy has about 1% body fat. He's shredded. He's got about a 12 pack. He also looks equally great. There is a big difference in his body transformation. There are a lot of comments about Ollie's body off the back of his

post. And a lot of women were praising him on the before photo saying, we like the before photo better. Now off the back of this, psychology researcher William Costello put a poll up of his own to see what body men prefer and what body women prefer. So the poll went, are you male or female? And do you prefer him before or after? So it was male before, male after, female before, female after. And this started

like a pretty controversial discussion where most of the women had said they preferred him before and most men said they preferred him after. Yeah, and this is a pretty widespread poll. So there was 5,000 participants who did this. And the reason why, like you said, Britt, that William Costello put this up

was because of the incredibly mixed reaction that had unfolded in Olly Murs' comment section. Before we unpack, I think it's interesting the conversation that unfolds when people put up these before and after transformations. Because firstly, it is a social platform. You're putting up photos of yourself and of your body. And I think it's

it would be remiss of you to think that people are not going to comment on your body when you're posting something saying, here is my body, here is my before and here is my after. By doing that, you are giving the green light for people to pass comments

Is that okay? Should people pass comment? Absolutely not. But I think it is almost like maybe people disagree with this, but it seems to me that if you didn't expect to receive any conversation around it, it's an odd thing to post. When we say this is the conversation online and that it's going viral, these conversations have been viewed 86.1 million times at the last time I looked this up, which was a couple of days ago. Once results have shown another user, they've just called user X,

reposted it with the results and said, why are women lying about this? What is the actual cause? So even though women have said, this is the body that I prefer, like we are super happy with this, men are still saying you're lying. We know you prefer the fit version, which I find fascinating because they've convinced themselves that they truly do believe that women only want this like aesthetic look.

ripped, shredded, low body fat, extremely muscular physiques, even when we've proven them otherwise? I think for a lot of people, a really ripped physique is

Is intimidating. Like, and I would say this even in terms of my dating past, I know it's probably ironic because I've never met a person who has more abs than Matt does on his forehead and literally all over his body. But like every single other person I have ever dated has not had the physique of Matt, right? Like, so like, he's not the benchmark of like the men that I've been attracted to in the past.

They've all had really normal, you know, they're in shape. They prioritize fitness, all that sort of stuff. But like dating someone who had washboard abs is not what I would normally be attracted to. And controversially, and I hope Matt doesn't hear this and take this to offense. I found them when I was dating them, obviously not now because I'm not in relationships with them equally as attractive as I found Matt when I was in a relationship with him.

But I do think that sometimes for our own selves, we put a very different lens on what we think is attractive. And I would say this as well for women, we often prioritize slimness because that's what for a long time was in fashion, being slim, being a certain size. And obviously as trends and fashion trends change, the trends of how our bodies have looked and what we've wanted them to look like also evolves. But that is not always in line with how

the opposite sex views us. There's been times in my personal life where I really wanted to be as skinny as I could possibly be. Now looking back, I can see how deeply unhealthy that was and how it just did not fit my body type. But there was never a time where I dated a guy who prioritized skinny. Like that wasn't what they found attractive. We appreciate different things or we want different things. It's not like we're doing it for the opposite sex. We're trying to do it for ourselves or maybe even for the same sex.

I also wonder how much of it comes into like assumed character traits of body shapes. For myself, if I look at someone who is ripped, I assume health and fitness, big, big, big priority for you. You are potentially the type of person who's going to really monitor what you eat. That's not going to be fun.

for me. Like, are you the type of person who's going to spend hours a day in the gym? Would I want that in a partner? Would I prefer that they kind of prioritize that ever so slightly less and spend a bit more time with me or on different hobbies? Like, I think I make a lot of assumptions about the stereotypes of what it would take to create that type of body and how like sustainable it is.

Yeah, I agree. I also think that there's almost like an arrogance that can be attributed to it as well, dependent. Funny, I don't think that at all. There's no part of me that sees a physique like that and thinks that. But there's no part of me that looks at somebody that is really ripped and obviously super into health and fitness that thinks I won't be able to share food with them. I just think, cool, they have a passion and a hobby that they're passionate about.

It doesn't make me want to date them any more, any less. And I can genuinely say as long as somebody likes to get fresh air, keep the basis of health, do some sort of physical activity, you know, relatively healthy with what they eat, it doesn't matter. I'm not saying that my assumptions are correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes I look at it and I'm like, oh, you look like the type of person who would track macros and I really like cheese. Yeah.

But you can still eat cheese if your partner tracks their macros. Ollie responded to an article that was put online titled, Bad luck, Ollie. Women prefer your huggable dad bod to the muscles that you got in the gym. And I think that's really shitty. And I can't imagine what it's like when not only people having this discourse around your body, but at a level of like nearly 90 million people having that discussion or viewing it. And he responded to that. He posted that article.

And he responded, I wouldn't normally comment on stuff like this, but from what I've seen, I just want to say that this journey at the start of the year was for many personal reasons and not one of them was to spark a debate and divide opinions. So it's very disappointing to see this kind of reporting. His wife also got on the bandwagon and,

made a public comment too and she said wow I didn't realize body shaming was still a thing in 2025 and at this public level my gosh could you imagine if this headline belonged to a female she goes no my husband just has to accept this on the chin because he's a man like are we allowed to make these comments on men's bodies because they're a man and not a female I don't know

if I agree with that and this might be like opening a can of worms but my body weight changes a lot and I have PCOS and a variety of other medications that cause fluctuations people have commented on my body no matter which direction it's on

As in no matter what my weight, people have commented on it publicly. Sometimes I'll screenshot them and send them to you guys and it comes in both directions. I think the big difference about this is that I haven't elicited a photo of a before and after. If you don't have the expectation that people are going to comment on your body posting a before and after, you're a bit silly. That was kind of like what I was saying earlier. And I think it's a shame to victim blame. I think it's a shame that we're at a point where we're like,

Well, if you're going to post it, then you're responsible for it. Because, you know, I also agree with you. I think you are soliciting feedback. You are, you're putting something out there. You have made a direct comparison of your body and you have comments there for people to engage. That's the whole point of social media. The problem is, is that when someone does that, it is as though we are giving the, you know, every viewer the right.

to make a preference. And I think in this instance, he probably didn't realize and he probably thought that the vast majority would say, oh my God, you look amazing. Well done. Congratulations. And that's what we expect when we put these things up. But I think, you know, what I found was like a really like interesting part of this is that

I think we place a lot of pressure on looking a certain way, thinking that that's what the opposite sex will desire. And really, maybe it's just not the case. Maybe what we think is so important in terms of aesthetics really isn't that important to a lot of people at all. And I guess, you know, there's a way of unpacking this in terms of like the male gaze versus the female gaze. I think that when it comes...

to heterosexual relationships and women looking for male partners, there's way more involved in what we find attractive. The female gaze itself, yes, of course, there is an aesthetic, but we also prefer emotional connection and we prefer other aspects

of a man's personality, whether they're funny, whether they're kind, whether they're a green flag, like all of those things are way more important than whether you have abs. And I would say objectively that's how most people feel. Maybe this all comes back to like capitalism. This is maybe very deep. But to capitalism because if you think about what women think

We're supposed to be. It's everything that can be sold to us. It's a diet culture that's existed for ages. But on the flip side, if you think about like a straight guy, a lot of what's marketed to them are like supplements, gyms, workout routines. I think it's kind of just –

It's the same device that's been used in two very different ways that probably influences our perception of what we are supposed to be or what we think is attractive. And I just think it's really interesting to ask the people in your life, particularly in this particular dynamic, right?

is what I think is the ideal, what you think is the ideal. Because I actually think that it could maybe put a lot of your insecurities to rest. I asked this question to my boyfriend last night and he was like, I really like curves and I really like, you know, he's quite a boob guy. So like that's his vibe.

and every diet culture messaging that I've grown up my entire life for is like be as thin as possible. Like you said, that's been the focus. And it would be particularly interesting, I think, for gay relationships if what you find attractive in someone else is also what you aspire to have. I think coming back to this post,

Even though women put forward that their opinions in this instance were that they preferred him before, the men still didn't believe it. So we told them what is true and they still said, why are you guys lying? Like they're so trained to think that they have to be this Arnold Schwarzenegger type body to be attractive. I can hand on my heart and say I could not care less.

Yeah. And I know like at the end of the day, it is a very good point by Ollie, which is like, why is there a poll? Why has a poll been made? But I do want to stress that I don't think the poll was made to be about him. Unfortunate that it was. The poll was made in order to show the caveat between what women find attractive and what men think attractive.

women find attractive. That was the difference. And that is something that I think a lot of people would be surprised by that three quarters of women do not actually prefer abs. They prefer somebody who feels more relatable, more approachable.

often physical appearance becomes an obsession, not actually a hobby. We like to say it's a hobby. We like to dress up diet culture as health, but actually it becomes a mental and physical obsession that some people have to look a certain way and be a certain way.

A new dating term that I came across, which I found the label for this very interesting. It's called fertility vampires. Now, I know we like to label everything when it comes to dating. In fact, we probably like to label everything when it comes to life these days. But fertility vampires was something that really made me stop and have a think about it. We have spoken about this on the podcast before, but there's a little bit more depth to this that I wanted to explore. So for anyone who doesn't know what a fertility vampire is, it's a

It is a term describing men who have long-term relationships with women during what can be considered their prime reproductive years. And these are men who have no intention or want to have

to have actually a long-term commitment. They're actually not on the same page necessarily, but they're enjoying the relationship for what the relationship is now without actually having to commit to the things that the woman in that relationship necessarily wants. I really want to make this clear because there's definitely different types of people who go through their 30s and I would say early 40s.

There are some women who don't know what they want and that's totally cool. But what this is about is women who know they want kids, they have made that evidently clear. They are in long-term relationships with partners who maybe also say that they want kids and

kids, but those men have no intention of actually, you know, making the steps that are needed in order to build a family or to take the next step, get married, whatever that looks like. And they are essentially wasting people's time. I did put a little poll up on my Instagram just to see how many of you have been in this situation. And it was quite a lot. It was nearly 40% of people have said that they were in this situation.

Which is really unfortunate. That's huge. That's a huge result. It is. It is. But what I didn't do is ask what percentage of those were men and women. And I do think it's important to say this does work the other way. Like a lot of men are in a situation where they were with someone and it was wasting their time as well. But the difference is...

is they don't have as much of a biological pressure. And so I think that's why I don't want anyone to think we're always just like blanket statement and hating on men. So we're talking about those relationships where you're pushing into your 30s and 40s and then someone has said, you know what?

not for me. And they exit and they've left you, unfortunately, in a position where you're like, well, fuck, I don't have an option now. And I think the thing is, is that sometimes it can be really hard to identify because you might be in a long-term relationship and someone is dangling the carrot. They've said they also want to have kids. You've been together for four years. They're like, oh yeah, I want to get married. I don't know when, like, you know, maybe in two years time. And so the goalposts keep shifting and

And, you know, we talk about a lot this idea of, you know, the time investment makes it harder to walk away from something because you feel so close to it. So if you have been in a relationship with someone for four years, you've talked about kids, you've talked about marriage, you know that you want to have children. Maybe you're 36, 37 years old and you're like, okay, well, we're going to do it in two years now.

it probably is something that's quite hard to rationalize in your own mind that, you know, if you wait a little bit longer, you're going to get that thing that you've been wanting for so long. I have really strong opinions on this. And I think because it's incredibly selfish, like if someone is doing this, whether it's intentional or unintentional, I think it's an incredibly selfish thing to do to someone. And if you're in a long-term relationship and

I think that you both need to be really clear about what it is that you want. If you are in a relationship with someone and you've made your desires clear and you do want to have kids, I know that's not for everyone, but there is a big portion of women who really, really want to have children in their life.

And they end up in a relationship with a guy who kind of just drags it out because they're enjoying the time for what it is. And they don't want to put too much pressure or too many labels or whatever it is. Like that to me is an incredibly selfish behavior. And it's shocking that so many women experience it.

I disagree with you in that sense. I think it's incredibly selfish if it is intentional. I don't think it's incredibly selfish if it's unintentional. I don't think this is, well, it's not black and white. People and humans are allowed to change their mind and they do it all the time. It's okay if you were adamant one way that you either want kids or don't, and then you change your mind because women do that as well all the time. Like I know women that have done that to men. One friend in particular, and this is lucky that it worked out for them, but

I remember even at her wedding, she never wanted kids. Not confused about it. I will never have a child. I am not maternal. There is no part of me that wants to be mom. And like, you need to be across that with her partner. So they had all the right discussions and he was like, yeah, cool. Like I don't want them either. And I remember saying to her, do you think one day you'll change your mind? Like when you're in a different, she's like, absolutely not. Like you couldn't pay me. They have a baby now.

by choice. They were married for six or seven years and she changed her mind on her own. She was like, wow, didn't think this was going to happen. I want a baby. And she's lucky that he was okay with that. But people's minds change all the time. So I don't think it's selfish if it's unintentional or there is a life change. Where I think it's the problem is when somebody absolutely knows that the person they're with isn't the right person for them. And I think this happens a lot with men.

They absolutely know the person that they're with isn't right. It doesn't mean they don't enjoy their company. It doesn't mean they don't love them. Like you can love someone that's not right for you. That's when it's fucked. When this person is like, you know what? It's really good for me right now. I'm not ready to be on my own. I'm enjoying it. I don't dislike them. I love you, but you know, they're not the one. That's when it's cooked. That's when it's like, you should be pulling the plug.

for both of your situations, that's when it's selfish to say, yeah, I'm going to string you along knowing this is your prime time to be in relationships, marriage and childbearing years, knowing that you are going to walk away from it. Yeah, I think that that's what I mean by the unintentional though. I don't mean when someone thinks they want a certain thing and then

they realize actually they've changed their mind about something. Like people can't help it if they wake up one day and don't feel as though they're in love with that person anymore or feel as though they've been putting so much energy and effort into a relationship that's been moving in two different directions. Like that's a different thing. But I kind of come back to a conversation I had with a friend quite a while ago. He's been in a really long-term relationship, eight years now.

I know his girlfriend wants to have kids. They've spoken about it a lot. I know she would love to get married. They've spoken about it a lot.

And then when I've had conversations with him, his response has been like, oh, I don't know if I really want to have kids. I don't really know if I want to get married. And when we had that conversation, I felt enraged because I was like, you are wasting her time. You've had eight years to decide whether you want to marry her or you want to. She's made it clear the things that she wants. And I think like that is a super intentional thing.

But the problem is, is he wouldn't see that as intentional. And that's where I think there's a massive mismatch. He's like, I'm still figuring it out. I don't know what I want. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. But you shouldn't be figuring it out on someone else's watch for that long. If you need time to figure it out, have that conversation with her so she at least knows where you stand. But he hadn't had that conversation.

with her had he lied to her and said he wanted them because if you're having that conversation and you're open and you're figuring out together I also think that's okay yeah absolutely no he hadn't he hadn't had that conversation and I think you know potentially sometimes we don't ask questions in relationships because we're scared of the answer so I don't know whether they'd had those conversations point blank I think she'd said I want to have kids I want to get married I

I don't think there had ever been the conversation of like, and I want them from you, so is that what you're going to give me? Because potentially there was a fear of what that answer might be. And I guess it leads me to the question of, and when we did read this idea of fertility vampires, it's very easy to,

to make the blame entirely about the person who is potentially wasting time. But I think in relationships, often there are two people that have a part to play in that blame. And I would say if you've been in a really long-term relationship and your partner is not fulfilling or providing or you haven't had the conversations and you've made assumptions around what it is that they want and they haven't directly expressed to you, then potentially it's

If you're in that situation, you also have a part to blame for the time that you're wasting in something that might not end up resulting in what it is that you want. And I guess I say this from a personal experience I had in my 20s. The only really long-term relationship I had other than Matt, the guy I was with for six years, I've talked about him a bit before. I...

so deeply believed in our relationship. Like I was like so blinded by how much I loved him. And he would tell me that he wasn't sure if I was the person that he wanted to marry. We were young. We were young. But we'd still been together for six years. He would say point blank to me, I don't know if you're the person I want to marry. But we lived together. Everything else we had in our life was everything.

very indicative that we were going to be together forever. We'd, you know, move states. And I just kept thinking, oh no, he's obviously going to change his mind. We've been together for six years. Like that's going to happen. Obviously we're young now, but we will just get there in the future. He would even say things to me like, I don't want to be a dad at this point in my life. If you got pregnant, I would expect for you to have an abortion.

Otherwise I wouldn't be able to be with you. I was so willing to negate the things that he was saying to me because of what I wanted. And I was never going to get the things I wanted from that man. But I pushed it for six years. I stayed in that relationship for so long because I believed in its potential. And I think never stay in a relationship for the potential of what you see in someone. Do you think that if that was during your fertility window and at the end of that relationship you were no longer biologically able to have children of your own,

Do you think you would have felt a lot of resent towards him? Yeah. Or do you think you would have felt an element of like, I should have taken accountability for this or both? Well, look, yeah, I think had I spent six years in that relationship and it was throughout my fertility years and I wasn't able to have kids or that was like a big relationship and then it took me years because it took me, it took me a long time to get over that relationship. So years.

I think I would have felt a lot of resentment for him. But now looking back, it was pretty evident I was never going to get what I wanted from it. So I think we both played a massive part in that. And I know everyone's situation is so different and that is a very, very small personal experience in this.

but I think it's too black and white to say it's one person's fault and not another person's fault. And I think there's probably few examples where someone is actually that deeply malicious that they're like, I'm going to take her fertility years and then I'm going to pull a rug under her when she's no longer fertile. It doesn't necessarily work like that. And it might in some relationships, but I would say the vast majority, there's signs that they are not committing in the way that you want them to commit. I think

that we probably gave a little more leeway maybe a few years ago before we were having so many discussions online publicly that men had access to that it's pretty evident that the emotional labor of fertility lies on the women. A lot of men

We probably excused for not having the education around fertility how we're only born with a certain number of eggs that drop, how our best childbearing years are literally teenagers to early 20s. And I say that as in biologically that's how the body's made. We're not actually saying go and have a baby as a teenager. But, you know, I think there was –

We're probably pretty lax with expecting men to be educated. I expect men to be educated now. So if this is happening now, I wouldn't be giving as much room for them to make excuses on like, I didn't know this was your fertility age. I didn't know that I was stringing you along. I didn't know this was going to be detrimental. Those days for me,

are gone, but I would have had more room to move a couple of years ago before we were having such public discourse about fertility and childbearing years. And I say that because even the discussions I had with Jordan when I started freezing my eggs, the discussions I had with Ben when we were doing embryos,

It did surprise me at how much men didn't quite know or understand. And I'm not making excuses for anybody. But my point is now I don't feel like there are as many excuses as we used to have. There's a real privilege in it.

Like there's real entitlement to being able to live in the present and not worry about, you know, what could happen in the future or what could not happen in the future. And I think that that is pretty exclusively reserved for men. I have a question for you and I know it's probably a tricky one to answer, but I

In terms of time deficit, like in terms of time that you invest in a relationship where you're not getting the thing that you might desire. And so, you know, let's say in this example, you're in a relationship with them. You know that you want to have kids and the goalpost seems to keep moving because they're not sure. How long do you wait? How long do you hope that someone changes their mind or that you're able to get on the same page?

And I think sometimes it's that sunk cost fallacy where you're so far into a relationship that you just keep hoping that they will change and you will end up on the same page. When do you decide that actually maybe enough's enough? Mine's not a set number. Mine changes based off of my age. Do you know what I mean? If I was 28.

I'd have a lot more leeway because I know I've got more time. If I'm 36 and I'm dating someone who's not sure about whether they want to have children, if I really do, that time period becomes a lot shorter of how much lax I'm going to give for them to work that out because my time's, you know, running out. And it's really hard because...

I know that there's this stereotype of like women when they're dating in their mid to late thirties, they often have the assumption from men that like, all they want to do is make me settle down and make me have kids. But like, and I feel so sorry for women in that

state because I mean there is an element of biological truth to it not necessarily psychological truth but like there is that pressure in the back of our minds that if this guy isn't the right guy I want to find someone who is the right guy but then it was in an episode of Friends remember how she's like if I

want to have a baby by the time I'm 33. I want to be married to the guy for a year and I want to be, I can't remember the exact words, but like Rachel was talking about and she was like, I would have had to have started dating him a year ago. I do think that we're simplifying it too much. I don't think it's black and white. There are so many variables. How much you want a child? Do you love this person more than you want a child? Do you want a child regardless of if it's with this person or not?

the reasons that they are quote unquote stringing you along, the quality of your relationship. I don't think it's like, hey, I'm 33, you in or out. I think there is so much that goes into a decision. It sucks to be in that position and have to potentially make a decision on like, fuck, do I stay with the person I actually love and imagined my life with? Or do I want this child more than anything else that I will sacrifice myself

what is otherwise a beautiful relationship. Like that is a really tricky decision. If you know that within yourself, you want kids more. A beautiful, but indecisive relationship. Cause don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about people who want something different. I'm talking about the person who can't make up their mind, who is indecisive and

And the reason why I actually do think that there's a timeline, I know everyone's is different, is because we receive ask uncut questions like this all the time. And we would say like if someone's like, hey, I've been with this person for six years, they still don't really know what they want aligns with what I want. We would say get the fuck out of there and find someone who's on the same page. I wouldn't though.

And I've never said that. Interesting. I would. I would say like don't spend a considerable amount of time in a relationship with someone who is actively on another page. And when I say actively on another page, I mean they're indecisive because they don't know what page of the book they're fucking on. Do we blame someone for not knowing what they want? The question isn't do I want you? This is where I think it gets muddy and tricky.

The question is not like, do I want you as a partner? The question is, do I want to make this decision that is going to inevitably change my life in a way that I don't know if I'm ready for? And maybe I say this because at 37, I have always been indecisive. I have always been on the fence. Even when I'm with the most beautiful person who I know I want to spend my life with, it's

It is a really big thing and I've always said I envy the women that know either way. Like knowing either way in a way is like a privilege that I resent a lot of people having because I have, you know, my pendulum. My pendulum is like it's fucking on. Get me to that IVF clinic. My pendulum is I'm actively trying. Then it's,

then it's getting a pregnancy test that's negative and being upset about it. And that is like a tumultuous place to be for those people that are indecisive. But I think the difference there is that you communicate it. But they are communicating it. Well, they're not necessarily. And that's where I think the problem is. I have a friend, she's now 38. And this situation makes me very, very upset for her. And I still hold a lot of resent to her ex-partner because they were together for years and she was more leaning towards yes, and he was more leaning towards no. And she kind of gave a lot of grace for him working out that

time period and, you know, what he wanted to do. And it ended up being like a probably yes, but not now. They broke up. She is now at a point where fertility would be unlikely for her. And it's

He got a new girlfriend and they were pregnant within four months. Yeah. And that's like, that's the story you hear a lot. And that's like the most devastating outcome. That's why the cost is so much higher for women who want to have kids than it is for men who want to have kids because they just have more time to make that decision. And Britt, I know that like you sit in the pendulum and you swing from side to side. You have a lot of skin in the game for that, but you're not indecisive

in the relationship that you want. Like you want to marry Ben, you want to be with Ben, like you've made those big commitments. And I think the difference with potentially this conversation around fertility vampires is the people who, like we said, the people who it's where it's really like insidious and super painful to get over are the people who are quite happy to just live in the present of the relationship for years and

And not actually have thought about, well, what is my future with this person? Do I want a long-term relationship? And it's because they are able to just have this ignorant bliss. And then when they actually are put under the pressure of making a decision, the decision is...

oh, like I enjoy, like I love you and I enjoy my time with you and this relationship is great, but is it the relationship I want for my forever relationship? No. And then they go on to have a big and sustained and like make those commitments in the next relationship. That's when it's like fucking impossible to process. Yeah, but that's why I said it's not black and white. That's why there's so many variables that it depends on. That's why you cannot put a number on, hey, we've been together four years. I want a kid. I'm going to fuck off. If only it were that easy.

Like it would make everyone's life, men and women, 10 times easier. It's such a complex and like multifaceted discussion that does consume a lot of people's brain and is upsetting that it doesn't work out for a lot of people. And what I do want to say is, and you're probably going to, a lot of people are going to hate that I'm going to say this, but in like those conversations that you just had about your friends,

there's a part of me that says well like maybe that just wasn't the right relationship and I say that I had a friend that did the same thing 10 years she was with him he didn't want kids they broke up he's got three kids with someone else from like 12 months later he started it wasn't in hindsight it would have been the wrong thing for them to have like it's just impossible to sit back and look at this topic and situation and say there is a like one overall statement but what I will say is

If you're going through this, it's really tricky and I really feel for you, but you need to weigh up what is the most important thing for you. And like, it goes back to setting those. When we get into a new relationship, we set boundaries for the relationship. We write down what we want on our

on our life. And sometimes it's really easy to be very malleable and they bend a lot. Write down what is a non-negotiable for you in relationships, marriage and children. And then don't negotiate. And then, well, I mean, of course there's always room for negotiation in a sense. Like it would be crazy to say there's not, but you do need to, no one can tell you that there's an age or a timeframe or a period. You just need to make the decision on what you want more in your life

Or will you be happy either way with whatever sacrifice that is? Because if there's two people and one wants a kid and one's not, one of you is not going to be thrilled with the decision. And if the person that doesn't want them has them because they love you, there is always going to be a layer that maybe they're not super stoked on that decision. And look, regardless...

If it is a case that that wasn't a relationship for them, as you said, Britt, and then they went on to find their right relationship and they didn't realize that until they fell into it. Yeah. It doesn't make it any less painful for the person who has to experience that loss. It fucking sucks. Because a breakup is hard. Couple a breakup with that person living the life that you wanted with them. Yeah. And you not having the ability to have that.

It's soul destroying. And also then thinking it was your fault. Like, why wasn't I enough? Why didn't I wait? Like, why didn't they want it with me? Totally. And the thing is, is that for some people, that is an almost impossible thing to get over. Yeah, it really is. It's so hard. It's really tough, man. Well, look, guys, that is it from us.

We would love you to join the discussion on these conversations. If there is something that you have experienced or if you have an alternate thought, like please, either through DMs or through at Life Uncut discussion group on Facebook, you can join the conversation that way as well. And also all of the episodes are on YouTube now. So if you want to go and watch it instead of listening to it in your ears, get a full surround sound and get the visuals to go. Yeah, go and check out the YouTube channel. That would be amazing.

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