Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. And I'm Laura. And today's guest is one that I am so excited about. Now, she may or may not need an intro, but if you happen to have come to one of our Life Uncut live show tours last year...
Tony was one of our guests at the Perth show and she didn't disappoint. She's an author, she's a writer, and she's one half of the astronomical podcast, the Tony and Ryan podcast, which is huge in Australia, but even bigger overseas. She's one of the funniest people I have met. No pressure. Welcome to the podcast, Tony Lodge. Oh my God.
I also love the use of the term astronomical. You just do not hear that enough. I throw that term around like there's no tomorrow because it's like it really hits home when someone says astronomical. You're like, wow, they must be really good. I think what you meant to say about that, Britt, is that Britt never uses it and she only reserves it for people like you, Toni. That's what she does. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, it really cuts deep that you're just like, yeah, oh, my God, that coffee was astronomical. I'm like, okay, that's how I use it here.
Tony, I reckon you told the funniest Accidentally Unfiltered that we've potentially ever had. And so, I mean, there's a bit of a setup to this. So last year we did the live shows in October. We released some of the interviews from the live shows if you guys were across it last year, but then we didn't release Tony's because we always intended to have you on the actual podcast and interview you properly. And then I played hard to get for too long. And it's been a whole
fucking year since we've been able to nail this down. She's been like ghosting, breadcrumbing, then zombieing, then she comes back, she reels me in and thinks we're in a relationship again and then she ghosts me again. Yeah. I just love the attention, to be quite honest. I've never had two ladies quite as beautiful as you guys in my DMs. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to like hold on to this for as long as I can.
I want to know, you said you've got a new Axley Unfiltered story, but I'll take whatever embarrassing story you've got. Well, I feel like you've pumped the tires up of the other one. But basically for, yeah, anyone in Perth, you would know that there's this ride at the Adventure World like theme park.
but basically it's like this big pirate ship and it like is on a pendulum and it kind of like swings left to right. And you kind of like swing up into the air and then back down. And then it kind of goes the other way. And I actually, I was just saying to you guys, like I get videos from people from around the world whenever they're at like a fair, because this ride is just like exists everywhere. So you would know it, but,
basically I'm like sitting on this this ride and it kind of like swings up and I'm like oh oh that makes my tummy feel a little bit funny and then it swung back the other way and I was like oh I don't know what that was and then I realized that like I didn't know what it was because I maybe wasn't supposed to know yet and I'm like swinging on this run I'm like
Oh, my God. It like swings back again. It really like teases you this ride. You really get your money's worth. And anyway, so I'm pretty sure I did my first come on a theme park ride. Sorry. And who else can say that? I did my first come. Is that because you haven't done yours yet? Not on a theme park ride. Put it that way. I did my first come. Yeah. On the pirate ship. On the pirate ship thing. And I was just like –
I was stunned because I didn't really know what it was. I didn't know why it felt the way that it felt. And, you know, like how do you, like, it was astronomical. That's all I can say. The real question here, Toni, is how many times did you go on it after that? You were like, well, that was fun. She signed up to the VIP membership, frequent flyer. Well, it's like seasonal. So Adventure World in Perth is only open from like October to March. Like it's only open during the hotter months. So.
So when it's cold, I mean. I'm just imagining your mum's like, God, Tony spent all day on that fucking pirate ship ride. She just travels the world seasonal to like theme parks. Seasonal. I go north to south. You did say you actually had a more recent embarrassing moment too. Do you want to share that while you're here?
On the podcast that I make with Ryan, we introduced this idea that on February 29th, so on that like leap day, we introduced an episode where we could say something like own up to something, but then we couldn't talk about it until the next leap day.
Kind of like a purge almost. And I introduced it because we'd only just started renting the studio space that we're in now. And so it was really new and we hadn't really gotten a lot of furniture yet and didn't really know the quirks of the building. And one morning, it was early.
And I was like, there's a delivery coming today. I'll be the one to like go and accept it. Like I'll go and open the roller door. It's like a factory unit kind of thing. I was like, I'll go and open the roller door and I'll figure it out. And that's fine. I'll let the guy in. I was like, great. I'll stay late for a different delivery. We're like, awesome. Like great compromise. I rock up here early and it was like early in the year. So I was still on the green juices. Like I hadn't given up on my resolutions yet.
And I walk up to the roller door and I like my remote fob thing's not working.
And then I'm like, okay, I will go over to the door and my key in the actual, like my physical key in the door isn't working either. Like the lock had seized up and I'm like, oh my God, like this guy should be here any minute. Like, and I'm not going to be able to accept the staff. But then I realized that the bigger problem is that I've had three quarters of a green juice. I can't get into the building and I am about to violently shit myself. And yeah,
So I'm sitting in my car and I'm like, what do I do? Like, do I go to a Macca's around the corner and use the bathroom? Then I'm like, no, because his delivery is about to come. And like, then what's getting, like, he's not going to be able to get in. He's going to leave. Then I'm just going to have to come back another day. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm panicking. The poo is like about to escape my body. And I realized what I had to do was park my car kind of like across the front of like to
Our driveway and fling the door open to kind of like try and cover me from the street. And I shat in the garden at the front of our new building. I cannot believe. And then I called my boyfriend Torps and I was like, you've got to come and help me. And he was like, well, I'm on my way to work so I'll swing past your office. And he goes, all I've got in the car is
All I've got in the car is like poo bags from like our dog.
And I was like, okay, well, all I've got is like plastic wrap from like a package that I'd picked up from the post office. So I scoop up as much as I can into this like plastic, like postal bag and Torbs rocks up and he grabs the rest of it. And we managed to, we ended up being able to get into the building. So we kind of like scrubbed it away and like managed to clean up the crime scene before anybody saw us. And then Torbs was like, all right, I will take the rubbish.
And he's like, I'll drop it into a random bin at like a Mac is on the way to work. And I was like, oh, my God, you're such a lifesaver. And then when I was telling Ryan this story on the pod, he goes, Tony, that has your address on it because I'd picked up the parcel. And he goes, you might open up the letterbox and someone's mailed your shit back to you. Wait, I think you get away.
you get away with a crime scene but it's got your full name, address, postcode, page and number. It's like Tony Lodge, my tax file number. Everything is on there. The part of this takeaway that I can't get over though is that your partner is such a fucking good guy that he will fish around in the garden after your poo and take it with him. He will take it away. I know. This is unfathomable.
is what it is. Astronomical. It's unreal. It's astronomical. That's an astronomical shit. It really is. Tony, I, you know, I loved interviewing you at the, at the Perth show. And one of the parts of your story that I find so fascinating because we are in the world of it now is that you came from a very traditional media background. Like you were working in radio, but you're working kind of behind the scenes, not,
on air. Can you talk us through a little bit about what that experience was like for you and why you left radio in a fiery dumpster to go and do podcasting and have your own show? Well, yes, I was just an audio producer. And I think for when I first started in radio, I was literally just making commercials. Like I wasn't even on a show. I wasn't even...
like, allowed to be with the famous people or anything. Like, I was, like, tucked away in the back corner and I was, like, started doing crosses in the morning because I was like, oh, you know, I think I could be really good at this. And I was kind of told, like, in no uncertain terms, like, you don't really look the part. You don't really have the qualifications for this and it's just not going to happen. And I think, like,
I really am easy to accept a no. Like if someone says no, I don't really accept that as a negotiation. I'm like, oh, that's it. Like I kind of just accepted that was all. So I was like, you know what? I'm really happy just being an audio producer and that's fine. And then like after moving around,
So I was living in Perth and then I moved to regional radio in WA and then moved to Sydney for Metro Radio. And I was kind of like, okay, like I'm just an audio producer. And like, I'm actually obviously pretty good at this because I keep getting these new jobs. And then when I moved to Melbourne, I realized like I was audio producer on like a breakfast radio show. And I was like, God, I'm like 24 at the time. And I was like, and have I kind of peaked? Like, is this...
Like I'm already doing the dream job. Like there's probably not really much more that I can do. And then I...
was, I just really enjoyed comedy. I really enjoyed being part of the show. I loved that Jason PJ was the show that I was on. I loved that they kind of let me have my moments with them. And I was like, God, like there's just this thrill about getting to be on air and getting to go and do things. And so I started going and doing their stunts, which is, I think, the way like a lot of people kind of start getting like to dip their toes in a little bit.
And I was like, oh, I remember going into the boss and being like, oh, you know, like I think I'm offering a lot to the show and, you know, it's quite hard doing my full-time job and doing that. And like the guys really like it. Like is there any way that I could get a pay rise that I can kind of manage doing both things or maybe take on a bit more of an on-air role? And they were like, no. Like if you like doing the on-air stuff, you do that for free because there's a million people that would kill to do your job and they would do it for free and blah, blah, blah. And I was kind of like, okay.
oh, like that's just it then. And then Ryan started working at the radio station and he was like, oh, have you ever thought about being on air? And I was like, I tried. And they said that I couldn't like, cause I just accepted that. And I was like, that's my lot in life and that's fine. And then when we started, he was like, why don't we make you up a demo to try and get you on the air? And like this whole podcast started as me trying to get
make like a demo to be on the radio. Yeah. We started making it and then we like recording the video and then we're like, you know what? Like the video is pretty good. The audio is pretty good. Should we try posting that on, on TikTok or whatever? And we did. And like, oh my God, I'm so glad that we did because yeah, I was like able to quit my job and now this is my full-time job and I get to make this podcast. And I guess the biggest thing was that like,
Had I just accepted that no and didn't have someone in my corner like Ryan that was like, no, like you don't have to accept that. Like you can keep fucking going and you can keep trying. Like I just, I wouldn't be here. And like, it kind of makes me emotional that I'm like, wow, I was just so happy to accept that. And like, yeah, had I not had a champion like that,
I would still be there and I would just be like, this is just it, you know? It's funny because, I mean, I was getting emotional then for you because it's this idea of you're the captain of your own ship and we all know it, but sometimes it's not as easy to put that into practice. And so you know that now, but you would have just kept cruising through life. I'm so interested in coming from the backside of radio, the back end of radio and like all the behind the scenes as well. And then I think that there's a real –
and I have to be careful with it because obviously we work in radio now, but there is, there is a real disparity between like on air talent and how it works behind the scenes as well. Um,
What was your experience of being a female working in radio? And how do you kind of see the opportunities that were presented for on-air talents to work? I mean, first of all, like in that most recent job that I had, there was a guy doing the exact same job as me and who was getting paid more. And we had like pretty similar experience. And that like, there was just no interest in like meeting that pay disparity or even like
the emotional responsibility that like, I feel like I took on more than they did. Like I felt as if the work kind of came to me and we were kind of splitting it up rather than us both kind of taking responsibility for our days. And that was really hard because you like, I was just felt like I was carrying the mental load a lot. I felt like I was really caring about
the outcomes of things and didn't really necessarily feel like other people were meeting me in the middle with that stuff. I guess working behind the scenes, there really isn't many females, especially in audio production. I think it's changing a bit now. But the way that it all works is, I mean, regional radio is not even really a thing now. So in terms of people...
up in radio, like that quote unquote traditional way of like going to regional radio and things like that. I think that now it will most naturally go to people who like all
already have their foot in the door some way, you know, like, and that's not me like trying to hang shit on like you guys, obviously you like had a huge profile and then you got into radio, but like you work fucking hard. I think it's more the people that go like, Oh, we'll just put them on. Cause they're having a bit of a moment and it flops and it goes nowhere. And then you go, Oh, but there's all these people that are trying really hard that are willing to do the work and do that job. And like, and you guys can agree and attest to this as well. Like it's actually a hard job to do, um,
I think that people were like, oh, you're just talking to a microphone. You have fun with your best friend. How hard could it be? You know, I wanted to be on the radio so bad and they wouldn't let me. And so instead of, I guess, accepting that, it's like, well, we created this job for ourselves. You know, I think there's some statistic of like only 0.3 of podcasts in the world make any money, which is just,
insane so you kind of do have to carve your own path and think about like multiple income streams like it's not as straightforward as you think it is just like oh i make this and then i get paid like it's just
not like that. I also find it really fascinating because I mean, to lift the curtain a little bit on the sort of radio podcasting world, if you're working in radio, usually if you start a podcast, it has to be housed by the radio network that owns podcasts. So for example, we work for ARN. They have a podcast network called iHeart. Even though we independently own Life Uncut, as you guys all know, it's our podcast.
We sell our ad space to ARN. So it kind of works in like a mutual arrangement there. But when you are employed by radio and then you start your own podcast, were you independent or did you have to be underneath your network? And was there a conflict of interest there when things started to go really well for you in the world of podcasting when you've been told by your bosses, sorry, you're not on air talent?
So we were both lucky enough that having been in the world a little bit and both having had podcasts before, we did have a little bit of knowledge. Because I mean, you hear these horror stories about people who have these amazing podcasts that then all of a sudden they don't own them and they can't move them somewhere else or they can't continue making it and stuff, which is
So scary. And we had both seen that happen. So we were both a bit wise up to that. But like you said, we were working for ARN. So our podcast for the first year was with iHeartRadio. And we made sure that we owned everything. We made sure that it was ours. And a podcast I'd had before had a feed.
And so we said, we don't need a new feed because we're just going to archive those old episodes and start like posting Tony, what is now Tony and Ryan onto there. And so I owned that, like Tony Lodge owned that, which is probably ended up being quite lucky and worked out for us because yet some people just like, don't get to keep making their stuff when they want to leave. That was only a year. And then after that, we ended up getting an offer to become exclusive with Spotify and
Which was just the wildest thing that could have even ever happened. Like Spotify knows my name. Like what? That is so insane. We moved on and we joined them and now we are independent. Our ads get sold by ACAST, the same as you guys. Like it's completely, it's our arrangement and whatever, but we own everything and it's all ours and like no one gets to say what we do or say or have on or yeah, so it's like pretty amazing. And you've got a big enough audience. This is the thing that as another podcast,
fellow podcaster that like I look at you guys and I admire so much you have a huge audience in America and overseas and it's really hard in this industry to to do that and to break into another country for those people that might not know what's it like like I saw you guys go over there to America recently and do a tour is that mind-blowing to you that you can go to such a foreign country and people recognize you turn up to see you know your name it's the wildest thing like I
It's just so like, even you just saying that then has given me goosebumps. Like just the thought of that is, is just fucked. It's extra fucking novel. Yeah. Like it's just, it's just so strange. Like the thought that people are willing to turn up and, and I think there's just so much content now. Like people have so many options. Like when I was growing up, there was channel seven, channel nine and channel 10. And like, that was it. But now, you know, there's so many ways that people can get content. So I think
The thought that all these people around the world are committing half an hour of their precious time to us every day, I don't ever want to forget what that means. When I think about how crucial a half an hour of my time is at nighttime before bed, I go, if I'm putting on a TV show, I want it to be really good. And Ryan's a new dad, so he's kind of going through that at the moment where he's like, I'm not
getting a lot of sleep. So whatever time I give myself to enjoy something, it has to be really, really good. So he listens to himself. He's like, it's got to be quality. I'm just going to listen to our room. He's like, I've been listening to Laugh Uncut before. But also like you work with one of your closest friends. Like what is your relationship with Ryan like now after spending so many years? And I ask this because there is this kind of like interesting thing that happens when you come to podcasting. I'm still in the room, remember. Yeah, but you make –
You make content about your own personal life. Your job is to talk about your personal life and the lines can sometimes get really blurred. Like what's your relationship like now? So when we first started doing this, we didn't really know each other that well at all. And so it was kind of like learning about each other, learning the limit, like learning what is cool and what's not and knowing as well, oh, I don't
know anything about your life outside of what we kind of knew from working together briefly. So we were getting to know each other as co-hosts, as people and friends, but then also all of a sudden you throw in running a business together and we had to shift from these modes of like, well, we're recording right now. So we're having band time. It's all fun.
And then we go, okay, and now we have to like figure out what accounting is and like how to pay tax. And that's like the business owner part. And then we're also like, okay, well, after all that, it's five o'clock. Should we go and have dinner and like try and get to know each other a little bit more? I guess like...
It's a bit like a long distance relationship where you kind of like everything is sped up and everything is just like 10x because you're like we need to figure out if this is something that we can do, we want to do, is possible. Do I hate you and I just haven't realised yet? We haven't had enough time together? Yeah, it's like going on a first date, right? You realise you've got chemistry and banter there but you don't know if you just want to fuck or not. It's the same kind of thing. Like you don't know if it's a long-term relationship or if it's that one night stand. Yeah.
So you fucked and then you're still here. So we fucked and we've still figured it out. But it's kind of like, we also are just really different people. We communicate really differently. And that has been, I think, a bit of a superpower for us because I had someone that, like I was saying earlier, was like, would champion me and would be like, no, Tony, like don't fucking take no
finance like you can do this and so having that is so powerful but also as someone who's not naturally like that when I need to not be pushed I'm like you need to fuck off
Like this isn't a time where I need to be bucked up and gassed up. I need you to shut up and like give me a minute. So it was also like learning how to push each other and when to push and when to like hang back and give space. Yeah, exactly like a relationship. We just kind of
fell into this. And I mean, it's worked out well and we have like persevered, but had he been someone I just met, like we probably wouldn't still be friends. Like, you know, we probably wouldn't have like stayed in touch and you know, like, which is so strange because now we're like part of each other's lives in this weird way. He's got a baby that I see all the time. Like I'm friends with his wife. He's friends with my boyfriend. You know, I just can't imagine. He came to the auction when I bought my house. Like,
You know, he's just like the most supportive person and I love him to death. But it's just crazy that under any normal circumstances, like would we still be mates? Like maybe not. So interesting, isn't it? And it's also interesting because like you can have two people that can be so different but then –
the thing that you share that's really unique and special is the chemistry. Like the chemistry that you can have in that dance that you can do when you're on air together is something that is really hard to find with just anyone. Like that's the thing that makes the product so incredible. People also forget too that it is a relationship.
It is a relationship and people have different communication styles like Laura and I do, like you guys said, and like different things that people need, like words of affirmation or time or whatever. Physical touch. Yeah, it's why we're always touching. She feels me out. But it is 100% another relationship that you need to manage. Just not, well, maybe yours is, but it's just not sexual. You and Torbs, your partner-
have decided, well, are for now child-free by choice, which is, you know, it is becoming more popular, but it is still against the grain. It's still against societal norms.
Is that something you always knew you wanted to be, childless by choice? Is it something you've discovered along the way? And is it something that has changed slightly since Ryan has become a dad? I think the childless thing, like when, as I was growing up, I just always assumed I would have kids because that's just like...
So rather than it being a choice, I would, I just assumed that I would because you grow up and you have babies and it's what you do. That classic thing of like, oh, by the time I'm 22, I'll be married. I'll have three kids. And then you're 22 and you're like doing acid in a warehouse and you're like, oh my God, I'm like not doing what I thought I was going to be doing.
You're getting off on a pirate ship. That's about it. Yes. Yeah. No, that was much younger. But I think it hit a point where I was just a bit like, oh, maybe I won't do that. And yeah, Torbs and I, like we just moved in together literally that day and we're laying in this beautiful new house. It wasn't actually, it was like some shit share house and we're laying there together. And I was just like, oh,
if I'm ever going to want kids. Wow. The worst timing probably because we just moved in together and I was like, should this be of something that we talked about? But I think I like realised and I just said it out loud. I think because...
us living together was like the beginning of our life. And I'm like, oh my God, does this mean that, you know, is this the house we're going to have kids in? And then I was like, oh no, actually. And Torb said like, oh, well, I would rather have you than a baby. So that's fine with me. And we check in like once a year and
I guess it normally ends up being around like if somebody in our life has a baby or whatever, I go, oh, like because we both love kids and we've got nephews that we adore and Ryan's baby is in our life now. And I just think about all the great things about enjoying kids and like love –
playing and hanging out and having them in my life. But I just think all the other stuff that we get to enjoy and the freedom that we have, I guess that that's just our preference for now. But I think everybody just assumes that if you don't want kids, like you just hate them. And it's really not that at all. Like it's, I probably now,
As I'm growing up and realizing that me not having children is like sacrificing the great parts about being a mom and like being a parent, but knowing that there's parts of it that I wouldn't be very good at and that I wouldn't want to subject a child to. Like, I'm like, that's not your, like, do you get what I mean? Like, it's hard to articulate. No, I think you're articulating it perfectly. And I also think the thing that's really remarkable is when you find a partner that's on the same page and that you've made that decision together and you're doing this together. Yeah.
You know, we talk about it in relationships all the time that like where the pinch and the pull happens is when one partner wants something that the other doesn't. But I think a lot of people have children and it is the best thing that they ever do. And a lot of people have children because it's the thing that they expected that they should do. And it hasn't really been a conscious decision. It's just been the next thing to do in life.
And I don't know whether that's the right way to go about it because it's definitely something you can't give back once you've made that decision and it's happened. It's so funny that people go, are you sure you don't want kids? Like you can't take that back. And I go, I can take that decision back much easier than I can take back
having a child and wishing that I didn't. Yeah, it's so true. I have a question for you because it's something that I think about all the time because I'm the same as you where I shouldn't say the same as you, but I often think I don't know if it's for me and it's the path I want to go down, but I'm getting to crunch time. You know, I'll be 38 this year when I'm getting married. But my partner and I talk about it all the time. Do you ever mourn the decision to not have kids? And what I mean by that is you so confidently then say like, it's not for me.
And sometimes I'll say that to myself. I'll be like, okay, I think it's not going to be for me. But then I get really sad thinking about the fact that it's not for me. And I try and picture my future and I'm like, it makes me upset to think that the child's not going to be my future, even if I've made the decision. It's really complex emotions because you can feel comfortable in what your decision is.
But then I guess it's the unknown of how you're going to feel in 10, 15, 20 years. So do you ever sort of sit in that feeling of being like, I know it's not for me now, but fuck, that makes me sad in a way? Probably less about it making me sad because you're right, it's really complex, but I think –
where I've landed with it is like what I was saying, like I probably now consider it, I'm sacrificing the great parts about potentially like being a mom and having a baby and like experiencing that love and joy and all of those things. Like I'm sacrificing that for, you know, the fact that maybe I wouldn't be that good at it or maybe it wouldn't really be for me or maybe I do prefer my freedom. Like I'm,
I think, yeah, what it comes down to is that like, I don't hate kids. It's not like I don't want them. I'm just saying like, you know what? I think that it's not the right choice for me or for us. And whether that makes it better, I don't really know. But there are times, I think especially like around the holidays and whatever, I go, oh,
having kids would be so special because you think about how much like kids love Christmas and kids love stuff and you just think about spoiling them and whatever. And then I go, yeah, but so what once a year I am cool with it. But, you know, like and I think that's almost like how I have realized that like,
The times I feel sad about it are like minuscule compared to the times that I feel really comfortable with the decision. And so I feel like what you're saying, like that to me sounds like, you know, exactly what you need and want in your life. Because if it gives you that like guttural feeling after deciding, like, I feel like, you know, exactly what you need.
Yeah. For you? Yeah. I mean, hearing you guys unpack that, when you asked the question, Britt, I was like, I feel like the response would be very different. I feel like most people who have made that decision are at peace with the decision. And when they've gotten to that place, it's like, well, it's not a thing that creates distress or upset because it's like, why would it? It's what I want. Which is worse because I don't have peace. Yeah. But that's what I mean. Like even the way that you asked that question, then you're like, don't you just feel so fucking devastated about it? I'm like, no, babe, I don't. Like, and...
Yeah, that's like, it's just as simple as that. And it's, I mean, it's not fucking simple. Why did I say that? It's so complex. It's like the craziest thought that I'm like, hang on, if I'm put on this earth to like repopulate it, I'm like not doing my one thing that I don't really know what that means. Yeah, no, I think you do. And I think you've explained it perfectly. And I do think that there is also a lot of like,
when someone has made the choice, you've got to explain why, which is crazy. And I know we ask the questions, but it's because the conversation is not had as frequently as the choice to have children. No one's like, why do you want to have children? Talk to me about how you came to the decision to have kids. Just explain.
Nobody ever asked that, but the alternate seems like something that needs to be queried. And I think that there are so many women now who are making this decision. And the reason why we talk about a lot on this podcast is because it gives voice to alternate ways of living life. And it doesn't mean that one is better or everything is just, it's just different.
You've spoken a bit. I mean, the book that you wrote, I Don't Need Therapy and Other Lies I've Told Myself. There's so much in this that you unpack, but I would love to know. And one thing we're going to talk about, which we spoke about the live show is your mum and when your mum passed away, but then writing about it and putting that out into the world and having everybody else tell you their experiences of grief as well. What has it been like?
to share so personally the massive grief and coming to terms with what that grief meant about losing your mum? So there's a lot of people that message me and go like, oh, thank you so much for...
for sharing that. Or I've just read your book. Thank you for sharing the way that you did about your mom, because I feel so much less alone now. I don't think that people realize what that gives me too, because I'm like, I've just put myself out there in this crazy way. And I'm talking about these feelings that people either haven't experienced yet or may never experience depending on like their relationship with people in their lives. But
I don't think people realize that reflecting back to me and saying, oh, my God, it made me feel so much less alone. I'm like, thank God that I'm not the only person feeling this in a good and a bad way because obviously I'm heartbroken when I can relate to people in that way. But I think people think like, oh, well, you wrote it down so you must feel really confident or you must know everything. I'm like, I really don't. And having the freedom to write down all my feelings was amazing.
and really cathartic. And, I mean, it doesn't have to be in a book that goes on to be published and become a bestseller and an award-winning book. But, like...
I think it like really showed to me like the importance of journaling for yourself without judgment for what you've written and without thinking that somebody else is going to read it. Writing for yourself and that's kind of what that book is. It's like amazing that there's this version of my mum that lives in the world. Yeah. I think that is one of the coolest parts that she's not here but people get to meet her because I've shown them her. Yeah.
I found one thing you spoke about really interesting that after your mum passed away and you were only 19, so you were so young, but that you felt like you couldn't talk about her after. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? I found that...
I was at this age where, you know, people were still living at home and things like that. And they would, I would be talking to someone, they'd be like, oh, hang on, sorry, my mum's just calling me. Or, oh, I was talking to mum the other day about XYZ. Or, oh, hang on, like I've got to go, like my mum's picking me up in 15 minutes, whatever. And I was like, remember just feeling this like hot rage and jealousy that people could just like so easily drop their mum into a conversation? Yeah.
And aside from the fact that she wasn't with me anymore, the casual nature of talking about her and being able to just like bring her up or mention her just fell away. And I think that there's just like so much
much stigma around showing your feelings. You know, if you say that you're struggling, you just are begging for attention. If you say that you're happy, you're rubbing it in people's face. If you say that you're grieving, people are like, oh, get over it, like change the record. And so I felt like there was just no way that I could ever bring up my mom without it seeming like
I don't know, attention seeking or things like that. And so that was the hardest part that I was like, this crazy thing has just happened to me. My favorite person in the world is gone. And all of a sudden I just have to like, shut up about it.
And people all of a sudden aren't being like, oh, so what was your mum's favourite food or whatever? Like, you know, nobody's asking that because how strange. But also no one asks it because there's this real fear. And when it comes to grief, there's this real fear around upsetting the other person. So instead of asking questions that would allow for that person's, their greatest loss, the person that they love the most to continue on in conversation, we avoid it.
And we avoid it because we're like, oh, I don't want them, I don't want to make them think about it. But the thing is you're thinking about it all the time anyway. It's not like it's very far from your brain or very far from your thoughts. I mean, what's a piece of advice that you would give people listening right now surrounding that? Because we speak to different people all the time where they say that. They're like, I would love people to continue the conversation or ask me how I am when I'm going through my biggest loss. What would you tell people? I would love to cancel everything.
saying sorry because being like oh yeah my mum's just passed away people go oh I'm so sorry I go well you didn't kill her and I feel like there's all of a sudden this like power dynamic shift of um feeling heartbroken about whatever whatever it may be and then you go I'm sorry and I go it's okay and all of a sudden like I'm comforting you because you feel uncomfortable and
I just kept – people just kept saying they were sorry. And I was like, you don't need to be sorry. Like, you didn't give her brain cancer. You didn't do this to me. You didn't do this to her. And so the path I now go down is that fucking sucks because all you want – well, all I wanted was someone to just be like, that really sucks and –
I don't, there's nothing I can say, but that's really shit because you just want people to acknowledge your pain. And I think that this is true for so many situations in our lives. Like we just want to be heard. We just want people to be like, you know what? That really sucks that that happened. Whether your worst thing today was that you missed the bus or that you dropped your berries and go-get on your t-shirt or that like,
you know, your mum is dead. Like whether it is one extreme to the other, like everybody's worst thing is their worst thing and they just want to be heard. Like people just want you to acknowledge that like they must be having a shit day because X, Y, Z happened. We struggle so much with death. Like we struggle so much with grief and like we don't like –
the discomfort of potentially upsetting someone else. And it's a very Western culture thing, but we dance around grief. And I think one of the things I loved about your book and something you just mentioned in terms of the casualness, I also like how you speak about grief in a casual way and hear me out when you're like, hey, this really bad things just happened, but I got to get up in the morning and make toast or I'm watching TV. These things feel normal, but nothing feels normal at the same time. And it's this,
it's this really like life goes on. Yeah. And it does. And I think for a lot of people, they rally around you for like two months and, or even less sometimes, you know, you get them, you get the messages, you get like, you know, some niceties and then a lot of people you don't hear from anymore, you know? And it's like,
that doesn't just stop for you. You're still left in the grief. You're still working through it. Like it's such an ongoing process. And I think people, unless they've experienced themselves, they don't get it. And I think that was another really challenging thing for me because I was 19, like you said, Britt, and...
I didn't know what was going on and neither did any of my friends. Like, no, I didn't know anybody that had lost a parent or anything. So all of a sudden I felt like such a,
on all of my friends and I just felt like they all pulled away from me because, again, like they didn't know how to sit in that discomfort and they didn't know what they were doing and, you know, they were going to Europe and drinking and having fun and I was like, well, I'm at home because I've left uni so that I could care for my mum. There's so many things that as you grow up and you learn stuff, you can apply it but no one that I knew had learnt anything yet. Yeah. Fuck, we still haven't. Yeah.
But, you know, you just don't have the like emotional maturity to try and talk to somebody about that. So I felt like all of my friends ignored me. I felt like they ignored what was going on and just thought that I would be able to figure it out. And I didn't. Like I don't think of it as I don't have an ounce of pride in me that I handled it well. I don't think I did. What's your relationship with those friends like now?
I don't really have a lot of friends from that period now, like because it was a lot of school friends that I still kind of saw and whatever. Yeah, so I think that mostly now it's like uni friends or friends that I went on to like meet working in radio or whatever just because it was just too hard for them and it was too hard for me. Yeah, sometimes you need to – I hate to say it, start fresh, but sometimes like having attachments to different parts of your life is not what you need. Yeah.
Having said that, how has grief evolved for you now when you're hitting these like huge milestones and you have huge successes? And like you said, you've written bestselling books and you've got a hit podcast. What's it like experiencing that where you still grieve your mom and your loss, but also you've just gotten on with it at the same time? Like I imagine that is a very conflicting feeling. Yeah. Um,
Like I just wish I could tell her because I just know that she'd be so happy. Like I just know that she would be so, so pumped for me and I know that she would love it. And I know that every morning I'd get a text at 5.30 being like, oh, loved what you said about this today on the podcast. You know, like I just know that she would love it and I know that she would –
love Ryan as well. You know, and there's just so many parts of my life that, yeah, like I've now got a partner who I've been with for 10 years who didn't meet her. Like I've been with him for so long and that was after she died. Like how –
How are those two things on the same timeline? Yeah. Like it's just so wild to me and it just makes me so fucking sad. Like, but I'd say that the way that I've grown with the grief, like they say that the grief doesn't get smaller. Your life just kind of learns to surround it. And I think that there's probably some guilt for me associated with like having this amazing life where I laugh every day and I don't laugh all day every day, but I laugh every day.
And I'm like, oh, so you don't care about your mom. And there's some times where I feel really guilty that I have this great life when, well, how dare you? Like, oh, so you reckon you're so sad about your mom, but like you go and you enjoy your life. But I think that I've just learned that like my life is for me. It's not for anybody else. And it comes and goes in waves. And there's, there's parts of my life that make me really sad because I think about my mom and I wish that she was here. And then like,
In the car on the way here this morning, a song played on my Spotify and I had a boogie because she really loved that song. You know, so I think it's also just, yeah, the waves of knowing that I'm allowed to be happy. I'm allowed to enjoy my life and I give myself permission to enjoy my life and
And I give myself permission to be sad because two things can be true at once. Yeah. Do you think there is any link, tenuous or not, for you with your decision not to have kids to losing your mum and going through that when you were almost still a kid? I don't know.
I don't actually know. I think like my mum loved being a mum. Like her biggest achievement was that she loved all of us and she looked after all of us. And like so there's four kids in my family. I've got three siblings. And, yeah, she just loved it. And I know that that was just her biggest achievement. I guess so there's parts of me that's like, oh, but for me, like my career is such a huge thing. Like I don't want my kids to feel like they're competing, vying for my attention anymore.
for my job, you know, which like wouldn't be the case, but maybe I wouldn't be able to juggle that. I don't know. I don't really think that there's, I mean, somewhere there might be a link, but I think. Sorry, you might need to go back to therapy for that one. I probably shouldn't have asked that question. Yeah, no, that's a tough one. No, but I think it is actually a really good question because there probably somewhere is. I also just think I love having money and I've heard that parents don't have a lot of money. It's true.
Kids are expensive. They are very expensive. What's the reaction like? Because I want to say this now because I just laughed when we were talking about grief and I don't want people to take that the wrong way, but you handle grief with humour. What's the reaction like mainly when you use these, I mean, comedic timing surrounding talking about your mother's death? Normally pretty split crowd. I feel like some people just love it and I'm like, oh, you have a dead parent, eh? And they go, yeah. Yeah.
There was like a video that went viral not that long ago and it's these two sisters and they're sitting at the table and they're laughing because one of them was pregnant at their mum's funeral and like, do you remember this video? I've seen it and they lose it.
And they're like, they're laughing. And they're like, so I just want to say, mom, I'm so sorry for doing this at your funeral, but like, I couldn't help it. And they're like laughing. And I was like, here's a good social experiment. I'm like reading the comments and there's all these people like, oh, you just, you know, your mom better than anybody. Of course, like, you know what she would like. And this is so funny. And I like, thanks for the laugh. Then there's people like, this is so disrespectful.
And how dare you? And I just think I'm actually allowed to say it because it's my lived experience. Would I say that on behalf of anybody else? Absolutely not. But for me, that's what makes sense. And for me, I know that my mom would love it. I know that she would be laughing. I know that she would think it's so funny that she's part of my life still because I get to laugh and joke about her. And I don't think that people...
understand how powerful that connection is. Like getting to laugh and joke about my mum when normally, like I'm expecting, what you're telling me is you can only talk about that if you're sad.
Like the only, the associated feeling with your grief should be sadness and embarrassment and like wanting to hide yourself away and like feel ashamed. I'm not ashamed to have grief. I'm not ashamed to like want to laugh about something that happened to me. That's it's my experience. I can do what I want with it. You know, I'm not hurting anybody. We had a similar experience recently and I'm going to laugh saying the story again, but fuck it didn't go to plan. My grandparents were like real parental figures for me. Like I grew up with my grandparents. I lived with them.
and we've waited to scatter my grandparents' ashes together. They were married for 67 years, and Nan passed away this year. It was really sweet, but scattering ashes is not sweet, and the plume of dust that covered everyone that was there was not sweet. The places it went, it shouldn't have gone. It went down my top, and there's all these people at the lookout. It was like a comedy show. It was like something that you would expect to be on a black comedy show.
It was not funny and it was so funny at the same time. And I had this real moment where we were telling the story in the podcast and I was like, fuck, someone's going to be offended. Someone is going to be offended because this wasn't their version of scattering their loved one's ashes. And also because we lent in. And we laughed and we made jokes. And I was like, and, you know, like for us –
it should have been a very reverend day, but everyone was laughing. And it's because I know Papa wouldn't have given a shit. He would have been like, ha ha, that one's for you. I know you can take that, Laura. When I was like covered from head to toe in ash. He was down her pants. He was everywhere. But I, I,
Yeah, grief is complex and like there's moments where it floors you and then there's moments where you do find the funny in it. And it's not the funny in the grief, but it's just the funny and the absolute absurdity of how extreme the emotions are. Totally. And I think that anyone who's experienced it will absolutely be able to understand that part of it. Yeah.
I would love to know. And I mean, you know, we touched on a little bit around the successes and also like how life takes a different path and then it continues and you have these things that happen after the person you love passes away. But one of those things, being your partner of 10 years, how did you guys meet? And, you know, how do you find a man who's willing to come and pick up your shit on a Monday? Yeah.
You don't reckon Matt would pick up your shit? I reckon he would. Matt wouldn't. Ben would. Yes, he would. He would. He would. Ben would hold the bag for me while I shat in it. Yeah. I reckon. Like he'd hold it out. He might actually. I'm going to ask him once this podcast is over. Test him. That's healthy. Test him. Yeah. Given the situation, what would you A? No. Hypothetically, babe.
Hypothetically, yeah, listen to today's episode and let me know what you would do. We met at uni, actually. Not very original, but like very casual and normal, I guess. We were studying sound engineering together and he was like a year below me. So we kind of worked on a couple of projects together and whatever. And he like lived...
On my way home, we would be in the theatre till, you know, like 11 or 12 o'clock and I'd be like, oh, well, what are you going to do, catch the bus? Like, oh, I'll drop you off. And we kind of just like got to know each other and it was a really just easy conversation.
person to talk to. And at that time, like my mum was alive, but she was really sick. And so we kind of talked. I remember like vividly this one conversation being like, oh no, I'm so mysterious. And he's like, you are the least mysterious person like I've ever met in my life. And I was like, nah, like you don't know me. You know, like I'm just a snotty, like 19 year old. And he's just like, nah, I know that like your mum's about to die and that you're probably going to leave uni. And I was just like,
Okay, cool. So you have been listening to what I sang today.
And then, yeah, like she passed away and I left uni and then I rejoined and I ended up being in his year. So I got dropped down. I had to do second year again kind of thing. Anyway, and yeah, so we just kept dropping him home and, you know, like all of these things, we just got to know each other really well and we had so much in common, but there was also so much that he knew about that I didn't know about. And it was like the exact relationship I needed. Yeah.
And I don't mean romantic relationship necessarily, but he was the person that I needed in that time. Like he was just really caring and willing to listen and like funny and wouldn't let me wallow in my bullshit, but also let me wallow in my bullshit when I needed to. I think it's really important to have people that really know what you need and can assess everything.
the situation and not just like write things off like it's not like oh well last week you cried and I did this so this is what I'm gonna do again he's a really thoughtful really caring person and I think I just really needed someone that could hear me out and yeah and then we actually just like started sleeping together and we were sleeping together for like nine months to a year or something and then I was like I actually really like you will you go out with me and he was like I'm
Okay. And it was the most awkward thing because then I was like, cool, I've got to go to my shift at Coles. With a boyfriend now. I'm like, I've got to get to the deli. That ham needs to be cut. So I asked this boy out and then I'm like, cool, bye. Like I've got to go shave some ham. All good. You knew him when your mum was still here, but you weren't romantic until after she'd gone. So was there a part of you that did she ever know about him as a friend? Nah. Nah.
Right. Because he was just one of the boys I went to uni with and there was like two girls in our course. So there was, it was mostly boys. So it wasn't like, oh, there's a boy at uni. It was just like, yeah, like all the guys, you know, like it was just, it was nothing. So nah, she didn't know about him, which is, it's a shame. Like I'm really sad she didn't get to meet him because I think that they would get along really well because two
Torbs has got like a really dry sense of humour and so does my mum. So I think that they would have, you know, when you hear about those couples where the boyfriend is on like her mum's side, they would gang up against me, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
And then what is next for you? Because I feel like you've ticked so many boxes and kicked so many goals. Like where do you dream of going individually? Because personally, I see you on like a comedy circuit. That's what I see. I think you're so funny and you're so brilliant. But where do you see yourself individually and Tony and Ryan? I don't know. I just really want to be happy. I just really want to keep doing things that make me happy. And I think rather than...
try and come up with what that might look like. I think that in this kind of job, you can't really ever predict it. Like things just come up and you have to say yes or no.
And I actually like a few years ago wrote down this list of non-negotiables, which I really fucking recommend. If you have never ever sat down and being really honest with yourself about non-negotiables for your life, I recommend it. Five things that like before you die, you know that you need to do rather than a bucket list of like, I'd love to get these things done. Five things that you will not leave this earth without achieving. What were your non-negotiables? One of them was being on a billboard.
which I did. Fucking oh, that is so good. I will not leave this earth unless I'm on a billboard. I like that. It's so funny because I've been pushing for a billboard with Laura. To Laura. I'm like, let's get a billboard. I mean, the thing about a billboard is that the billboard doesn't do anything but how good's the photo of you in front of the billboard? You know? Yeah.
That was one of them. And actually the last thing that I have to tick off, oh, excuse me, aside from living overseas, that's one of my non-negotiables, the last thing that I'm going to tick off actually this year is hosting family Christmas in my own house.
It's so nice. You're so cute. I love you. So we are, Torbs and I, we're hosting Christmas at our house. My sister and her husband and their boys are coming. We're cooking, we're doing everything. And I am so thrilled. And I think that the most exciting part about that is that it's been a really, really, really long time since I've had a goal that wasn't work related.
Yeah, it's really amazing, isn't it? And it's so easy to have work-related goals and not have those like family moments. Because they just feel so tangible, like a work thing. You're working at it every day, whereas I think I've just like left myself behind a little bit. And so I'm really, really excited to do that. Yeah, like I'm just, I'm fucking pumped. Where do you want to live overseas? Oh, I don't care. Just that experience. Yeah, I just want to know that I've done it. Ryan and I actually at the moment are very obsessed with like
TikTok Bali real estate. Like, I don't know if you guys get those videos in your algorithm. Yeah, buy this for $25. Yes. And so it's like this amazing villa and it's like, live here for $6 a day. And you go, okay, like, so we're really obsessed with that at the moment. So maybe Bali, I don't know. I don't really care as long as it's somewhere that my French bulldog can come. And that's basically my only requirement.
And you've got two more. What are the other two bucket list things? So I had also, oh, one of them was to actually just be famous. I didn't really know what that looked like.
I love that you said that because people feel like they can't say that. People feel like if they say out loud, I want to be famous, especially in Australia, in the Australian landscape. We hate feeling like anyone takes ownership of what they want, especially something that is about being famous. But I love that you're just like, I want that. I want people to know who I am.
For whatever I do. Well, I think it's the being famous for what? It's like the having the what, you know, like do you want to be famous because you were that girl who shat on the street and you made it to the news? Like, or do you want to be famous for the thing that you're proud of? Like there's different types of fame. And I think that's something that I unpacked as I kind of got a bit older and that it wasn't really the fame part of it, but it was the fame was like the avenue of doing a job that I loved because, you know, you can't like –
be a singer or be a dancer or be a comedian or whatever if there's no audience like that just then is a hobby and not like your full-time job like that can't be your full-time job if there aren't people watching you and paying to see you or whatever so I think that the fame was just the easiest way to be like well if I'm famous it means that I'm doing something that I love and I'm good at it
Yeah, exactly. And I'm probably doing like a very non-traditional job, you know? So that's what it looked like for me in the end was that it meant that I could, yeah, do a job that I was really good at and that I loved and that made me really happy. Well, you've ticked that off because people know your name. Spotify knows your name. I know. It's astronomical. It really is. It really is.
Tony, you're such a joy and we love, I mean, it was a long time coming, like we said, a year of waiting to get you on the podcast. We absolutely adore you and everything that you guys have achieved. We love the podcast. Tony and Ryan, if you haven't gone and listened to it yet, go give it a listen, but also get around everything else that Tony does because you are genuinely just one of the most
And I hate the word authentic, but that is exactly what you are. You're one of the most authentic people. And yeah, you're a joy to speak to. We heard on the podcast the other day that you guys took some...
I shouldn't say took some. You used some content from the Life Uncut discussion group and you were having a little laugh about it. We absolutely love hearing that. I love to know that you guys, especially Ryan's lurking in our Facebook discussion group. I know. I get tagged in stuff sometimes and I have a little nosy of whatever, like people have tagged me and I love it. Wait, what have you been tagged in? People just tag me in random stuff. I think that there's like a bit of a thrill in being like, she's in this group because I'm also in this group.
Oh, my God. This is hell dark, but I think you'll like it. I'm also in this, like, dead mum discussion group and I get tagged in stuff all the time. People are like, oh, my God, you know that girl who's got a dead mum? She's in here. And they just, like, tag me. They're like, tag Tony. She'll relate to this. That's awful. Yeah.
All of it is wholesome too. You know, you found your group. It is really lovely. And the connection, as we were saying, like it just really beats everything else that I thought, you know, like you go, oh my God, it would be so great to get to do all this stuff. And then you go, wow, there's actually all this other stuff that is so amazing about this kind of job and like reaching people that you just never could have dreamed would ever hear what you had to say in the best way. Yeah.
It's so true. We absolutely agree. You're an angel. Thanks, legend. I love you guys. Thank you for having me. Thanks, Tony. No, thank you.