The Best Of The Pick Up - Laura The Bird Watcher, Hiring a Private Investigator & Grandma Hobbies
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This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. And I'm Laura. And this is our radio show, all packaged up in a cute, tight little bundle. It's the highlights of the week. We have a national radio show if you are new to the podcast, welcome. But this is the radio show version, not the normal podcast episode. Yeah, so if you're super confused, just go and listen to Wednesday's episode.

Yeah. Hey, I loved one of the chats today. We were speaking to Lipstick Investigations, which is, it's like an investigation. We're speaking to a woman behind it, Natalia, and her job is she gets hired to go and like track people and find out if they're cheating. And I think it's so fascinating. I...

I mean, I'm not going to say I ever entertained the idea, but I always thought about it. That doesn't surprise me. No, of course not. But like when you're getting cheated on and you're not sure if it's truth or not, like your brain goes to some pretty crazy places to try and uncover the truth. Well, she's flat out. Yeah.

I always say like... She's busy. I always say like, there's no better detective than like a woman scorned. Natalia's not even scorned. She's just doing the work for the people who have been. Or a woman that's paid by a woman scorned. Yeah. But also interestingly, because there's this real advantage about the fact that she is a woman working in this industry, being a private investigator, because mostly it's a male dominated industry. And she said it's really easy for her to get into nightclubs and to be able to follow men around and go relatively undetected. It's...

Fascinating to me the reasons why people get a private investigator and feel the need to. But it's weird to me to think like you could just be like walking out of your house to work and there's someone following you that you have no idea. Like when you put it like that, does it make it okay because you've paid someone? It's also crazy that that can be legal.

That's what I mean. But the same thing happens with paparazzi, right? Totally. I mean, a private investigator could be following you. You might have no idea. For people who work in media or who, you know, are relative celebrities, you could walk out the front of your house and not know that someone's following you. Or you could be walking down the street with your kids and have some dude hiding in the bushes taking photos of you. Like, it's all weird, all of it. But so long as you're in a public setting...

it's so fine for these people to film and to kind of document what it is that you're doing. Yeah, and I was surprised how many people actually take her up on it. Like I knew that she'd be busy, but I didn't think that she'd be like proper flat out. And I knew people would consider it like...

You know what? I'd love to know. You never do it. Yeah, you don't think that many people go through with it and actually hand over the money and go and investigate. But it's, yeah, fascinating chat. Well, look, if you thought that was shocking, let me tell you something else that's really going to get you going. Have you guys seen the new, it's a new TV show called The Floor? It's like a game show where they have flashcards that show up and you've got to answer all the questions on the flashcard. So basically like name whatever it is on the flashcard. Like quick speed trivia. Yes. Yes.

Rapid fire. Yeah. And I've discovered that I'm very good at bird names. It's a skill I never knew I needed it. I never knew it would come in handy. I'm still not convinced. I didn't even know I was good at bird names, but I'm pretty good at telling and talking about birds. Yep. You nailed the kookaburra, Laura. Congratulations. No, it was the kingfish. That's where I really like- Kingfisher. I know. I know. That's where I really- I came a little bit unstuck.

But you guys will see a skill. Small technicality. A skill you never knew that Laura Byrne had is birds. And I wish that it was something else, but it's not. Do you reckon we just lost the listeners? I don't know. If they stick through to listen to it, we might then. Anyway, guys, it's coming up now.

Okay, so my entire algorithm online, Laura, is weddings. No surprise, I am getting married. So you know it just becomes your whole life, like everything you get fed. Yeah, mine is just babies and birth videos. Yeah. As soon as Instagram realized that I was pregnant, it was just spitting out birth.

Interesting. You don't want that on your algorithm. I've seen enough. Maybe if you give him birth, you do. I've done enough. I love the wedding stuff that's being fed to me. I absolutely love it. Good for you. I get a lot of ideas from it and I get a lot of first dances and things like that. Really cute. But there is this one that is going viral on TikTok at the moment and I actually am shooketh to my core that this is a thing that is happening. I could not imagine ever doing this to a guest. Have a listen to this.

So I am currently sitting in my car and we have been here literally like a total of 15 minutes. And the bride comes up to me and tells me that my outfit is inappropriate for her wedding. And that was a supposed dress code that I didn't know existed because I never got a wedding invitation mailed to my house. It was a text message that my husband received that

But in 2025, is this what brides do to their guests now? Okay, so just to set this up a little bit more, this woman went to this wedding with her husband and the invite came through the husband. She drove two hours to get there with two kids. She never saw a formal invite. She gets in there. Now she's wearing like a three-quarter dress, beautiful dress, but it's not overly – It's not a summer dress with a pattern. It's very geometric of things.

blues colored blocks and stuff like that. Like it's very patterned. So if the dress code said no patterns, it's polar opposite to that, right? But she doesn't even know what the dress code is. Within 15 minutes, the bride told her to leave the wedding. I actually cannot believe the audacity of the bride to do that. I have on my wedding, my dress code is no big patterns, like big loud patterns, which would probably include this to be honest.

But I can hand on heart say, if I arrive and there is a guest in a pattern or a dress, there is no part of me that would ever in a million years dream of kicking that person out. Like, are your aesthetics more important to you than the people you're supposed to love? You might not kick them out, but would you bitch about them behind their back? I would get them

just stand off to the side. I'd be like, could you just stand to the side behind that tree? It's your mum and you're like, mum, just go and stand over there. No, look, I mean, crazy. Also, if you're inviting people to your wedding and you care more about your dress code than the people that are coming, I think that says a lot about the type of wedding that you want. And it's not about celebrating with your family and friends. It's about having the photos for proof afterwards.

don't get me wrong. I understand that people have dress codes for a reason. It can be very, very frustrating when you have a dress code and someone purposefully and willfully chooses to not abide by it. Like when I sent you a photo of a dress and I was like, I like this one, Britt. And you were like, that's patent. And I was like, yeah, it's nice though.

No, you said, can I wear this? And I said, it's a bit of a pattern, but if you want. Yeah, that's good. I liked that because you left it open. Because what I'm trying to say is, no, do it. No, I'm joking. No, I was at a wedding once and I'd love to know what it would take for you, Laura, to ask someone to not be at your wedding. Like what they would wear. Honestly, nothing. Nudity, birthday suit. Oh, look, if you came naked to my wedding, I might tell my uncle to put some pants on. But like, you know, apart from that, I don't think I had a dress code. Actually, I did.

Do you know what went out on our wedding invitation that was a dress code? Sexy. Yeah. So I left my husband in charge of organizing that side of things. Like he did the invites and everything. And we did it on that online wedding platform where like you kind of fill everything out and it sends out an automated digital wedding invite. Yeah, yeah. And because we weren't really sure of all the prompts at the time, Matt went on and he just filled out like funny shit that he thought would get changed.

And so he wrote dress sexy and that went out to all our guests. And then I did. I came with side boob. I had a little bit of side boob out and I got in trouble. Laura was like, put your boob away. I was like, well. You never got in trouble. You look great. You look great. But do you remember? It was a fantastic amount of side boob. And look, some people did dress sexy for my wedding. I'm okay with it. I also went backless too. Ew. Look, I understand and I think this doesn't just go for weddings. It goes for kind of any event.

I think it's fine to have a dress code if you've got a certain idea in mind. But if someone rocks up and they aren't in that dress code, they're probably not going to feel that comfortable already. They're already probably going to feel like an outlier or like they got it wrong. And making and drawing attention to that just makes you a bit of an asshole rather than, you know, accepting that, you know, okay, well, it's not ideal but it's not a big deal either. I don't know. For me, I just think that this is… It's disgraceful. Yeah, I think it's gross and I would never…

Never, ever, ever in my life would I pull someone up for not dressing a way that I thought was appropriate. Also, I do not care what year we are in, ever. You don't send a wedding invitation by a text message. Like we are not there yet and if you are sending your invites out, stop being so lazy. Online is fine. Everything is online. A text message.

Do you know what it makes me think? It makes me think that he got a formal invite and he hadn't RSVP'd and so the groom sent a text message to be like, hey, dude, are you coming to the wedding? I would absolutely put money on the fact that a formal, if someone's that anal about their dress code, a formal invitation went out and that man just didn't RSVP properly. So maybe they were already a bit of a liability couple. Maybe there's more to this. Get him on the phone.

We'll follow up next. Live from the United States. No, I reckon there's more to this. Okay. We'll get our investigators on it.

Now Britt. Why does this sound so serious? And very ominous. You have been giving me shtick about something for almost a year now. Oh god, this could be a multitude of things. I took on a hobby. I don't know where it came from. I don't know what sparked it. But about a year ago, I got really into houseplants. You did. You got this. It started slow to be fair, like cute little

few plants crept in and then you were like, oh, let me try and see if I can cut a stem and propagate. And neck minute, your house is a jungle. So I got so deeply obsessed with houseplants and like doing the best by my houseplants that I went online one night. It was late at night

And an ad popped up on social media and it was an ad for, it's called an indoor forest and it has like all the right LED lights that like produce the right amount of, you know, the right amount of light to have in your house to keep their plants healthy. But it's a vertical thing that you install from the ceiling to the floor. Hang on, I haven't even seen this. Yeah, I know. I bought it. Okay. It arrived.

I'm embarrassed to say how much it cost. And my husband saw it and he was like, enough. He's like, you can't buy things that take up a whole space in our house. Give me like ballpark figure. Nah, nah. Over a thousand or under? Cost me $900.

Oh my God, we're a bird. I am dedicated to the houseplants, okay? I love them. I care about them. I often on a weekend sneak out and buy more houseplants, okay? Did Matt make you send it back? No, he let me keep it, but we haven't installed it. He's like, anyway, that's not what I'm talking about. We should be talking about it. We should, we should, but we won't. Now, I love my houseplants. I love how therapeutic it was for me that I discovered this, that it brings me just so much joy. It's probably the only time when I'm at,

at home on a weekend and I'm doing my houseplants that I feel as though my brain is at peace, genuinely. And I think that that's why I love it so much. I'm happy for you. I'm confused where this is going, but I'm glad you found your peace. Well, I came across a study recently and there was an article about it and it's called Grandma Hobbies and I think I slothed

I slot hardcore right in there. But grandma hobbies are making a comeback and I'm talking things like bird watching and clay art and crocheting, things that you would have thought are uncool because your nana would have done them back in the day. All the cool kids are doing them now and guess what? One of them is houseplants. I'm sorry. Can I tell you what my grandma used to do? She didn't crochet. She didn't knit. She didn't do any of that. She just drank whiskey. No, she raced pigeons.

I used to love going to grandma's house because out the back she had a full aviary of homing pigeons and you would race them. They would have to do a job, like deliver a letter or something and then race and then they'd have to come back to you. So like I was never exposed to those grandma hobbies. That feels way more niche than like knitting, for example, just FYI. Or making doilies or whatever. My other one was a race car driver. She'd fully, like I had hectic. Where did you grow up?

Well, I grew up in Port Macquarie, but they didn't. I had a very adventurous family. But please, please go forth. What else is coming back? Okay, well, my parents, like my mom and my grandma, crocheting big in our family. We were a big family of crocheters. Pottery. You know how everyone these days like signing up to go and do pottery classes where you sit there and spin a wheel? Oh, yeah.

Love that. But also, if you're someone who's been taking on grandma hobbies, there is now studies and proof to say just how good that is for your mental health. So you don't let anyone like Brittany Hockley poo-poo it, okay? I'm here to tell you that it is a good thing. You could be going out drinking on a Saturday night or you could be at home knitting a blanket. Okay.

hear me out. I'm not a gangster. Pottery I could do. I tried to learn crocheting once when I was young. I don't have the patience for it. I just can't sit still long enough. But one thing that I found so funny, and I hope no one takes offense by this. When I met my fiance, Ben, I would look at Ben and think he was really cool, right? Like I was like, okay, he's a giant, like he's really big. He's an athlete. He's, I got a perception of what I thought he would be. And it was not, it was not reality. And in the early days, he told me like,

growing up, one of his favourite hobbies and something that he's really proud of now is bird watching. Ben, my fiancé, is a bird watcher. He loves watching birds. He used to, in his spare time, read bird books and he has bird books. He knows every bird. He knows their call. He's got all these facts. Does he go out on an exhibition of bird watching? Does he take binoculars with him? What level of bird watching are we at? Are you going on bird watching holidays when you're away overseas? No.

has died down a little bit now. I don't know if he's trying to bury it for me, but I think it was because... He'll let his crazy out after you guys are married. Birdwatching is very normal. He learned it from his grandma. So he was raised a lot by his grandma and it is a grandma hobby, right? They used to go out and watch birdwatch and he learned to love it. So he learned everything through his gran. And then when she passed away, he just kept watching. And I just think it's

Yeah, I agree. I think that's so sweet. I do think that there must be an age where most of us hit when birdwatching comes into the sphere. Because I know so many people who enjoy it. I'm waiting for it to hit me now that I'm like, now that I'm deep in the gardening, birdwatching is only a hop, skip away. Oh, you should see how excited he is by the Australian fauna and flora. Like, oh, it's a whole new world. We have the kookaburra. That was mind blowing for him. It's been a real adventure. It is. Okay.

Here's my one and only trivia fact that I know. If you ever have me on your trivia team, I'm actually terrible at it. But one I do know is, guess what the kookaburra is? The world's biggest kingfish. There you go, everyone. Don't say you don't come here to learn anything. It's a kingfisher. Yeah, a kingfisher. You said kingfish, which is a fish in the ocean. I love that fact line. It is fun though, but it's not a fish. You were right. Don't ever have Laura on your trivia team. You heard it here first.

Now, Britt, have you seen the new TV show, The Floor? I haven't sat down and gotten into it yet, but I've heard a lot about it, mainly from you, to be honest. If you haven't seen it, it's on Channel 9, and I was watching it the other night with my mother-in-law. And if you haven't seen it, look, this is the concept. You have like a square of floor. It's so stupid to explain.

Please, I'm on the hook. It's such a stupid game. Okay, so we're on the floor. Got it. So you're an expert in whatever field. For example, I could say I'm an expert in kids' books because I read so many of them. And then you pick your little, you have like a little square on the ground and everyone who's on the floor has a square of their expertise, right? And the person next to you could have an expertise in flags or, I don't know, chocolate pastries.

brands, could be anything. And you go and you jewel them, basically just show an image of it and you've got to like quickly say the name of whatever it is. Who are you jewelling? The person next to you to get their piece of square so that you can get more of the floor. So a chocolate person could hypothetically take a book person's square. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Oh my God. Stay with me, everyone. Sorry, it's very convoluted now. I know.

probably no one cares about this, but I discovered something the other night because I'm self-proclaimed. I'm very bad at trivia. Like you do not want me on your trivia team. I don't know anything. I don't know where anything is. I don't know a single thing about nothing. But I learned something that I'm quite good at from watching the floor. So somebody had their area of expertise was birds. Now we were talking about birds the other day and I know what you're going to bring up.

going to bring up but let me tell you I got every single one of those bird names right when we were watching the floor and I think that maybe my new grandma hobby that I'm going to take on should be bird watching. Well I am a bird connoisseur. Just to get people up to date Laura has been bragging about how much she knows about birds. I know so much about birds. Hang on I just want to play this grab from a couple of days ago. Here's my one and only trivia fact that I know is guess what the kookaburra is.

The world's biggest kingfish. There you go, everyone. Don't say you don't come here to learn anything. It's a kingfisher. Yeah, a kingfisher. You said kingfish, which is a fish in the ocean. Okay, so kingfish is what you said you were an expert in, which is in fact...

Not a bird. I meant kingfisher. You all know what I meant. No, because they're two separate things. I was close enough. Well, you've been bragging about this non-stop, this little bird obsession. No, I'm not bragging. I'm just like really proud of myself because I know that being savvy in bird names is not particularly cool or knowing what birds are is not particularly cool. But for some reason, I just think that like as Australians, a lot of us have a knack for knowing bird names. Well, we all need a skill in life. Yeah. Some people's is more important than mine. Well, we're going to hold

Our own little game show here at The Pickup. Our own little bird watching the floor game show. I actually have printed off eight birds, Laura, and I'm going to quick fire hold them up to you. I have the pictures in front of me. This is quick fire. Rapid fire. Rapid fire. Yes, Laura, thank you. That is what quick fire means. I am going to hold up the birds and you are going to say what it is straight away. If you don't know it and I feel like the time is up, I will be going on to the next bird. Okay. Are you ready? Yeah. Let's play this properly though, guys. What do I win? No.

Respect. $100,000 like the floor. I'm ready. For Will and Woody. Respect. From Will and Woody. Will and Woody, you hearing this? All right. Ready? Yes. And the pick up. The floor bird watching extravaganza starts now. Flamingo. Magpie. Eagle. What kind? Crested eagle. Nope. Wrong. Big winged eagle. Nope. Okay. Nope. That's not a point. Next one. It is an eagle though. Oh, it's a brisella. What direction? What do you mean direction? It's facing the land. It's a kind of direction. What direction?

Rosella. Okay, it's actually an eastern rosella. Hummingbird. Yep. Oh, cassowary. Cassowary, yep. Easy. Ooh, I don't know what that is. It looks like a... It's a stork. Name it, it's a stork. A galah. Yep. Oh, that's it. Mate. Mate. 6.5. No, I got seven out of eight. Who are you taking a point off for? You didn't know what kind of eagle it was. That's true. What is it? It's a bald eagle. Oh.

Not bad. Guys, I think maybe this is my – I'm going to work on this. And just to be clear, Rosella is Eastern. This should become a benchmark because I think we should do this weekly. I don't know how exciting that was for the people in the car. For everyone out there who is a bird watcher, I'm here for you. I think I've just isolated the rest of the Australian audience, but I'm okay with that. Well, I would like to show an animal that I have an expertise in and do a quiz myself. All right. We're coming to you next week.

Now, if you were listening to the show yesterday, you would know that I am the most skilled at birds across the land. Actually, I didn't do as well as I thought I would. And the backstory to this is that I watched an episode of the new game show, The Floor,

and I learnt that I had a hidden skill of knowing bird names and I feel deeply proud of this. I don't know why. We did a bird quiz, like quickfire bird quiz. I held up pictures to Laura. I did so well. I got one wrong. 1.5. I just didn't know the bald part of the eagle but I knew it was an eagle. And look, can I just say I will die on this hill. The only bird I didn't get was a stork and that's because it wasn't flying. It was just standing. No one knows what a stork looks like when it's standing. If it is mid-flight with a baby in its mouth, you would know. I feel like I would.

I feel like a real bird expert would know. Well, I mean, I'm close. You were good. Call me David Attenborough. Next time I'm going to be looking at, you know, the fish and the trawling and everything else that's happening in the world. Very sad. It was weird how much you knew. Like, it's a weird skill to have. Can I tell you what was weirder? The fact that you kind of were, like, weirdly upset and then angry that you didn't have a test. I wasn't upset or angry. I had FOMO. I also won a quiz. Yeah, but you've not proven yourself to be particularly good at any one animal. Oh, wow. I know. They're fighting words, Laura. Yeah.

I didn't know we were there. Well, we are. But Britt has, I mean, you've spoken about it a little bit over the last two days. You felt personally victimised. Yeah, I just wanted an animal quiz as well. The bird quiz was for me. And so the one animal that you seem to know better than other animals but not particularly well, I don't think, is dogs. I love dogs. So you said, where's my quiz? I want an animal quiz. And what we have done is we've gone out of our way to create, to replicate animals.

to see if you are in fact an expert in dogs and if you can win some of my floor since I clearly won the bird game. I'm cracking my knuckles. I'm so excited about this. How many dogs do we have? Roll the game, show music. We've got eight dogs and the way this is going to work is it's like flashcards, guys. I know it's more of an audio medium but just hear us out. I'm going to hold a picture of the dog. You're going to tell me what kind of dog it is.

And then for everyone, you get right, you get a point. It's pretty easy game. I ran the quiz yesterday. All right. Well, that's for anyone who wasn't listening to the show. Okay. And it's going to start right now. Go. What is this dog? Maltese or Maltipoo? Absolutely not. Shih Tzu? It's a Bichon Freeze, which I don't even... A Bichon Freeze. Oh, a Bichon Freeze. Don't know how to say that. It's a Bichon Freeze. Okay, that's wrong. Don't correct me where you were wrong in the first place. Because I know it now. Keep going. Okay. Schnauzer. Miniature. Oh, good. Yeah. No, just a normal one. But that's fine. Ready? Go.

And next. Border Collie. Yep, good. Oh, that's the little one. Papillon. You don't know it. Papillon. Jack Russell. Oh, great. Well done, well done. Rottweiler. Very good. This one's an easy one. Pomeranian. You didn't get it. You took too long. You didn't even tell me. No, you're a cheater. You took too long. Gemma Shepherd. Yeah, all right. Is that it? Yeah, that's all. I needed more. You're 50-50. I was really sitting in there. Well, we did it and you only got 50% right. That's why we needed more.

To get my percentage. Can I just say? They were hard dogs, sorry. They were not mainstream dogs. She got like a magpie. Sorry, I got a Bichon Frise. It sounds like I had a breakfast in Paris.

To be fair, I printed these off and I didn't even know what a Bichon Frise was. But I've seen a few of these dogs before. Bichon Frise. Frise A. No, it's Frise. Bichon Frise. Oh, whatever. Sorry, producer Grace is sitting there and she's like, no one cares. I had a Bichon. Well, what's it called then? No one cares about that either. Oh.

I want to know if it's called a fish or frisee. It's not a frisee. But I'm sure everyone's very confused by what we're doing right now. Why didn't you put my own dog in there? Do you know what? Maybe we could start our own game of the floor but actually just have listeners call up with their things that they're good at. We could do this actually with listeners because, you know, there'd be people who are much more skilled than what we are. Oh, shock, Laura. I know. It's going to be hard to find. We will scour the nation but we might find someone who knows dogs better than Brittany Hockley.

now do you know something that has like come into my algorithm recently a plant no i mean i'm pretty hardcore on the plant content as well but no i have been served quite a few private investigators and what it means when you get on someone's explore page how did you end up here no there's a couple of accounts that i follow that i am absolutely obsessed with and

They're female investigators who go in and try and find like, you know, husbands who are cheating or like, you know, find the truth behind the mystery. And if you've ever been in a relationship where you just like don't know your elbow from your butthole, like honestly, you might have felt as though maybe hiring a private investigator is your only hope in getting the answers that you're probably looking for. Okay, yeah. Okay, I mean, I've never done it. I absolutely had moments in my past relationship where I thought like,

could I be that person? Like, could I hire someone? I'm surprised. Is that a rhetorical question or can I answer it? I'm surprised you haven't ever done it because it's definitely like a tendency that I feel like could come out for you. No, no, I don't think that. I think it's like you've got to be in a pretty hard situation to get to the point of hiring a private investigator. Yeah. But I like,

would love to know how do people get into this? Like what are the kinds of things that they are trying to uncover? And like in terms of when someone has a suspicion and actually getting someone and employing them on the case, how often is it that their suspicions are usually true? Well, we do have Natalia who's on the phone. So Natalia is a private investigator. She works for a company called Lipstick Investigations. Oh, what a great name. And she's been doing it for 12 years. Natalia, welcome to the show. Hi.

Hi, how are you girls? How did you get into this line of work? Like, how did you get into being a private investigator? Well, my friends do like to call me a stalker, just a little bit. The good kind. The vigilante kind. Yeah, always expose the truth, you know. Look, so 12 years ago, it was just a TAFE course. It was a Certificate III in Investigative Services. Wow. That wasn't on my bingo card. Yeah, so...

Yeah, so unfortunately, look, I don't do it at type courses anymore. So you have to go through a private company. So, yeah. And so was there something that happened in your life, like something that sort of set you off? Were you trying to look at things in your own life or a relationship? Or like there has to be something that made you want to solve these crimes. Yeah.

Look, when I was younger, I grew up watching like Veronica Mars and James Bond and like Lara Croft and all that sort of thing. So I was like all female empowerment, you know, and I always used to have a lot of girlfriends who would say, oh, look, I think my boyfriend's cheating on me. I...

just have all these hard feelings. Is there a way that we can find out if he's cheating? And I'm like, you know what? I'll just go follow him and see what he's up to for the day. And it's just pretty much, yeah, it was just a knack from the beginning of it, you know? So I just thought, okay, I'm actually quite good at this. So is that the most common kind of things that you get called into where it's like women who think their husbands are cheating on them or is there a specific type

of like, I don't even know, do we call it a crime? A crime against emotions? I don't know. A moral crime. A moral crime. Like what is the most frequent thing that you get called to do?

So we do do a lot of infidelity-based work. So a lot of like cheating husbands, cheating wives, boyfriends, girlfriends, anything that you can think of pretty much. And it's quite unfortunate, but it's fortunate in a way because there's always going to be a cheater, suffice it to say. Do you think there's like one case, I don't know how much you're allowed to tell us, but is there a case that you can tell us about that was just so crazy, like you couldn't even believe it?

Yes. Early in my career, actually, I had a job where a male was out with his female companion. She was actually his mistress. And he had told his wife that he was coming home. And the wife had said to him that she was working late from work. So she wasn't going to be in the house. But she actually was, in fact, in the house and inside the closet. So he actually went to the marital home and took his mistress to the home, not

not knowing that his wife was actually inside the bedroom closet. Why would you want to do that to yourself? What a dirtbag. Right. And then did she, like, spring out at the right moment? Right at climax. No. Really ruined everyone's day. So the...

Oh, my God.

Now, I want to know, when you go out and you follow someone or you're investigating someone, how often is it that the conclusion is they've actually been cheating? Like, is it kind of a done deal that if you get called onto the scene to kind of take over this, that the likelihood that there's cheating there is pretty high? Well, technically, like, once you have that feeling that your partner's cheating on you and you hire us, we're the last step. So for you to have to hire us, you know that's...

it's happening. And we're just there to provide the evidence at the end of the day. So there have been obviously some cases in my 12 years of working that it's just sometimes paranoia, like it's not happening. That could be from a past trauma, from a past relationship. And we're just there to be evidence-based at the end of the day. So I'd say 70% yes, if you think that your partner's cheating on you, your partner's cheating on you, and 30% that it

It might just not be that and it's just an insecurity. Have you ever been sprung? Like have you ever been figured out by the person that you're tailing?

Oh, of course. Like, look, I'm not invisible. I mean, sometimes I'm invisible, but no. Like, look, I thought I had bright red hair early in my career, so I had it dyed. Subtle. Yeah, I was known as a spy with the bright red hair, and now I've got bright blue hair. So, like, look, I'm not that invisible, but you'd be surprised. People don't actually do pay attention to you. Like, if you're there cheating, you're not looking

looking around going, hey, who's that? Like, who's this? Who's that? Yeah. If I saw the same person like around my suburb, you know, and I kept seeing them like someone with red hair, my mind doesn't go to like, oh, they're an investigator following me. You're just like, wow, I've been seeing that person a lot. Like, you don't put the two together. To be fair though, like, I don't think I have a very good like face name recall. And I reckon I could see the same person a couple of times before even realising that there was like, you know, that there was a pattern here. Do you think being

a woman has helped you in this industry or do you think it's been a hindrance at all? Oh, no. It's actually been, there's so many benefits from being a female in this industry. You know, sometimes you can get into nightclubs if you just flirt with the security guards a little bit. Especially if your subject is going into a nightclub, you just go up to the security guards and be like, hey, I'm a private investigator. Like, I think that guy's cheating on his partner. And the security guards, they love it. They'll be like, oh my God, really? Like, can we get on this? Like, do you want us to help you? Like, it's like this

going, like, go on in. Everyone loves the drama. Yeah, like, we'll help you. Like, whatever you need, just tell us. Like, who is it? Who is it? And I'm like, well, I can't tell you who it is. But they just love it. But being a female, it's, yeah, there's so many upsides to it. Like I said, you get into more places. People don't really pay attention to you. So, yeah. Oh, Natalia, I find it so fascinating. Like I said, there's definitely been times in my past where I've contemplated. I've never hired one. Let's hope you never have to. Thank God, I don't think I'm ever going to have to with my current husband. Current?

You always are a husband. Current husband. Hey, who knows what the future holds? If he's not, it's because I've had to hire someone like you. No, no, no. With my husband now, but you're doing God's work, Natalia. You're doing God's work.

Oh, sometimes. Like, look, it is a hard job. People don't think that it's hard, but it is mentally demanding, you know? And sometimes you're there at your client's worst point, you know? It's like they don't want to obviously hire someone. Yeah, they don't want to hire someone to see if their husband or wife is cheating on them, you know? And...

once you find out that they are and you give them the evidence, you kind of become like a little bit of a counselor then. But in saying that, you can't really have a biased opinion either. So some clients come to you and they say, oh, isn't my husband a dickhead? He's cheating on me. And I'm like, oh no, I can't really say that. Yeah, totally. Oh, thank

Thank you, Natalia. It was a pleasure to talk to you. And hey, if anyone's listening, Lipstick Investigations, if you've got a suspicion about a partner, you know who to call. Yeah, you might get a booming calls after this. Thanks, Natalia. Thank you so much.

We talk a lot about cheating here and on our podcast Life Uncut in terms of all different kinds of relationships and infidelity. And I want to know, do you think there's ever a time it's okay to publicly humiliate somebody off the back of infidelity? Which I know seems like an obvious answer. Cheating is like the one thing that like nothing riles people up when it comes to relationships as much as the conversation around cheating does. Do I think it's okay to publicly humiliate them? No.

I think it makes you a bit petty. But I've also been in the situation where I've been cheated on and at the time really thought about publicly humiliating them. Because you want some sort of vindication. You want people to know. You want like their friends and their family and their mum to know like what an asshole they are. Of course. But there's something for me that doesn't sit right with the idea of public humiliation ever. I don't know why. No, I agree. It's like whatever.

even is done. There's something that when I see it go down, I just really feel for them, even if they've done the wrong thing. This is exactly what has happened in this story online. There's a husband that found out that his wife was cheating on him and it was his 40th birthday party. So he had this huge party with like family and friends and he got up to do his speech, you know, like, thank you for coming, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

And basically he had known his partner was cheating on him. So he saved it for this moment. He calls her up on stage and he makes it look like he's doing this beautiful thank you and he has a gift to her and how important she is and all this stuff. He gets her to take a wedding ring off because he alludes to the fact that, you know, she deserves an upgrade. He plants the kiss of death on her.

He basically kisses her like quite firmly and strongly. But the kiss of death is this idea. It's like a mafia thing. When a mafia person finds out that someone has betrayed them, they give them what they call the kiss of death, which means like, I know you've betrayed me and something's about to happen. So he does that, which is very dramatic.

Now, you need to listen to how crazy this is after. Even though it's my birthday, get her a little something, right? A happy wife, happy life, bullshit. You know what I'm saying? That's how important. What's going on? I was trying to be nice. I tried to be nice. Yeah, I fucking know everything. That's right. I know everything. I didn't see this skinny little... I wasn't in this. What? I fucking know, bitch.

He sounds horrific. He goes on to say like he's seen some sexy things, he's seen some body parts. He starts to go like crazy at her. The video goes so much longer than that but he's basically just saying in front of everyone, humiliating her even though she's done the wrong thing obviously. But the fact that this was so premeditated to save it for a public moment, get her up, lull her into a false sense of security that he's going to like say she's amazing and then go crazy.

Oh, he sounds, nah, I think like listening to that, he sounds so aggressive and sounds truly horrible. And I guess like, I understand that if you've been cheated on, you're hurt and you probably want to have a big reaction and everything. But I don't know, I think listening to that, like you almost come across as the villain yourself. You come across so petty. Totally. I mean, I've definitely heard of like people standing at the altar and waiting until it was time to do their vows.

And that was the opportunity that they took to, you know, tell everyone, the family, the friends, everyone who's there to tell them that actually their partner had been cheating on them. But we actually received a message which is, you know, to the pick up, which is kind of along this line of things. So this was someone who works within Australia who works in a very prominent hospital. And it said this, one of the doctors and a senior executive at our hospital got caught having an affair.

Oh my goodness.

Single hospital staff. It's like thousands of people. Received the email from her saying, this is what I've done. And this is the person I'm doing it with. It was like it was written by her, but it was written by her husband. It was written by, well, actually, there's a bit more detail to this. It was written by the husband and it was saying like, just letting you all know what they've been doing. Whilst they're supposed to be on working hours.

How humiliating. But then is that okay? No, I don't think any of it's okay. But at the same time, I also understand it. I do understand why someone could be so hurt and feel so betrayed that they act in a way that's so not congruent with how they would normally behave because they just want everyone to know what an awful person their partner has been. Do I actually think it's okay? Would I ever do it? No. I think it's totally petty.

But I also understand why some people feel that's their only option to enact some sort of revenge. I remember when my ex, many moons ago now, was living this double life and he was marrying someone else simultaneously, like complete double life. And I remember when I found out all I wanted to do was out him to everyone I knew. Like I wanted to humiliate him, but I didn't have it in me. So all I could bring myself to do was steal all his toilet paper from his house. So next time he did a poop, he didn't have anything to wipe his butt.

Like, how ridiculous. I don't even think that touched the sides, literally. It didn't. I don't think he cared. No, he didn't. He would have just had a shower. I know.